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Why doesn't the G1 have hardware graphics acceleration? Doesn't it have a GPU? Wouldn't this make scrolling smooth like the iPhone?
im note sure it only lists a cpu in the specs on the htc site
I think it does have a GPU but its pretty limited. I believe it supports the OpenGPL API? I could be wrong though... However yes, all smartphones should have a decent GPU really to help things along.
I'm eargerly awaiting the Sony Ericsson XPERIA3 ^_^
It does have hardware graphics acceleration. There is a demo game in the market called Neocore that demonstrates some of the possibilities.
If you don't want to install it, there is a youtube video here
I think the RAM is the major limiting factor, not the graphics. We used to have the same Graphics chip as the iphoney...but damn if the 3G-S didn't leapfrog us.
RAM is only one thing, the iPhone 3G S has a much better CPU too as its a nerfed version of their multi-core CPU coming out next year.
We should be seeing dual and quad core ARMs next year and a much better GPU. Fact is the iPhone's OS has been optimised heavily to run on its hardware, while Android is still not 100% tailored for the hardware its running on, instead it was designed to run on as many platforms and configurations as possible by stock.
Does anyone know of another tablet with similar hardware specs? The OMAP3621 cpu seems to be only used in a nook color so far.
I am thinking that if there is any similar hardware that has already got cyanogen mod (for example) ported then the install instructions could be basically the same...
/mr
The Droid x uses the OMAP 3630 which I heard is pretty similar to what we have. It also runs the same GPU, the powerVR SGX 530. I'm not sure how the rest of the hardware compares though, and there may be more similar devices out there.
3630 is supposedly the same silicon as 3621 except for the speed rating and the camera interface.
The Droid2/X use the same graphic processor as Droid 1, which is PowerVR SGX 530. According to the datasheet, this core is designed to run at 200Mhz with power of rendering 14M triangles/sec. But our Droid/Milestone runs underclocked at 110Mhz(7M tri/s) while D2/X at 200Mhz. That leads to major UI responsiveness&gaming difference between D2&D1.
I wonder if there's any possibility to overclock the GPU as well?
Thanks in advance.
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
TeroZ said:
The Droid2/X use the same graphic processor as Droid 1, which is PowerVR SGX 530. According to the datasheet, this core is designed to run at 200Mhz with power of rendering 14M triangles/sec. But our Droid/Milestone runs underclocked at 110Mhz(7M tri/s) while D2/X at 200Mhz. That leads to major UI responsiveness&gaming difference between D2&D1.
I wonder if there's any possibility to overclock the GPU as well?
Thanks in advance.
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
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Click to collapse
As far as I know this has been tried (overclocking), but with no results (constant reboots)
Imagination Technologies (PowerVR) defines the GPU internals and sells the "plans" for the part, to be included in SOCs like TI's OMAP.
But PowerVR does not, however, define the exact clocks at which the parts should run, nor other things like number of memory channels, memory speed, etc.
Texas Instruments are the ones who defined the GPU clocks. The OMAP 34xx chips (Droid 1, Milestone, XT720, Flipout, etc) are made using 65nm process, and that determines a certain power consumption using certain clocks, hence why they defined a ~100MHz clock for the GPU and ~600-800MHz for the CPU.
The OMAP 36xx (Droid X, Droid 2, Defy, etc) are made using a newer, smaller 45nm process, which allows them to run at higher speeds while spending approx. the same power, which is why Texas Instruments decided to clock the GPU at ~200MHz and the CPU at ~1-1.2GHz.
So it's not like the Milestones and Droids have their GPUs underclocked, those are just their factory clocks.
Of course, overclocking the GPU would be nice and it could be possible. If someone found out how to change the GPU's voltage and clocks, I'm sure it could come in handy in future games.
However, right now, the 1st gen Milestones/Droids are running every high-end HD game from gameloft at full speed, and I bet it'll even do Infinity Blade and other UE3 games when they're out for Android.
Every "HD" Android game has to be compatible with the 1st-gen Snapdragon's GPU, the Adreno 200, which is a lot slower than the SGX530 @ 100MHz, so we're sitting confortably above the base spec for now. And with all the Windows Mobile 7 phones coming with a 1st-gen Snapdragon (mandatory requirement), it'll be like this for a while.
So there's really not a big need for overclocking the GPU right now, except for getting higher scores in mobile benchmarks (some of them terribly unoptimized, like GLBenchmark 1.1 and 2.0).
Furthermore, I it seems the first factor to limit the 1st-gen Droids in games will be the RAM amount.
The first UE3-based game for Android is already out, and it requires 512MB of RAM.
So the game runs on Nexus One and not on a Droid/Milestone, which has far superior graphics performance.
(I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the fact that Android doesn't allow graphics buffering in the main memory, though, which could be resolved in future firmware revisions).
Then again, overclocking the GPU would be cool, and I'm pretty sure getting our SGX530 to work @ ~200MHz would significantly increase the gaming longevity of our phones for quite a while.
Thanks for your useful and important reply.
"The Manhattan Project" on Galaxy S Series just made me curious about Droid's gpu oc, because SGS also use a PowerVR gpu. But things isn't easy due to a fact that one is made by TI while another is made by samsung, the structure inside both SoCs may be completely different.
But I still hope someone capable would try something on this.
That's really cool and significantly lengthen the lifetime of our Droid and Milestone.
Thx again for your reply!
PS: I also felt strange why the UI(not games) on N1 is faster than an OCed droid, could it be the optimization problem?
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
TeroZ said:
PS: I also felt strange why the UI(not games) on N1 is faster than an OCed droid, could it be the optimization problem?
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
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Definitely part of the optimization --a fast ROM with a good theme like the Droid X theme on the GOT 2.2.1 ROM has as fast a GUI as I've encountered on Android, even without overclock.
Also take in consideration that all the current 2.1 and 2.2 roms have a cap of 30fps in 2D, perhaps when the final 2.2 update arrives there will be some perfomance gain
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
Hey all,
I am putting a HTPC together that will primarily be used with XBMC, but also be used to browse the internet and download films via lovefilm.com. Here is what I am considering...
AMD Llano A8-3800
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-a8-3800.html
Gigabyte Motherboard - AMD A75, Socket FM1, DDR3 (GA-A75M-UD2H)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-358-GI&groupid=701&catid=1903&subcat=2058
Corsair Vengeance 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C8 1600MHz Dual Channel
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-298-CS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517
Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-368-WD&groupid=701&catid=14&subcat=1953
OCZ ModXStream Pro 500w Silent
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-037-OC&tool=3
Lian Li Case (PC-C37B)
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1194.html
For these simple tasks I am under the impression Llano will suffice. Should I be worried about the lack of a discrete GPU?
Also this will cost about £500 which is kind of pricey for a HTPC. Has anyone got any suggestions to reduce the price of the build?
Thanks for any feedback?
PSU and RAM is a bit overkill for a HTPC. Also, run LINUX if you wanna keep it low-powered. From what I hear, Llano has a great GPU but sucky CPU. It should suffice as a HTPC processor. I'd go for a lower end PSU and about 1GB RAM if Linux, 2GB if Windows.
Thanks for the good advice about the PSU and RAM.
I have heard that the LLano CPU is a little weak on other sites too. I was considering instead an Athlon II with dedicated graphics. It will cost a similar amount as this system.
I can even get the AsRock vision 3D for the same price...
http://www.asrock.com/microsite/Vision3D/index.asp?c=Main
There are just too many options...
edcoppen said:
Thanks for the good advice about the PSU and RAM.
I have heard that the LLano CPU is a little weak on other sites too. I was considering instead an Athlon II with dedicated graphics. It will cost a similar amount as this system.
I can even get the AsRock vision 3D for the same price...
http://www.asrock.com/microsite/Vision3D/index.asp?c=Main
There are just too many options...
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Click to collapse
3D is overrated. I'm assuming that you:
1. Have a 3D HDTV.
2. Have the 3D glasses
3. Have a desire for headaches.
Also, a lot will depend on usage pattern/behaviour. If you are only using it for some browsing (assuming social networks, youtubes, reading forums like XDA, some degree of flash playing), the Llano should be more than sufficient. It will also serve well in a light gaming mode (we're talking COD:MW2 probably). And if you're running Linux, I'd say that bumping to 2GB will make it a behemoth when it comes to webapps.
That said and done, what I suggested (Linux build and bumping it to 2GB) will be more than sufficient for watching movies and some light browsing with webapps. The Llano is not good as a CPU, but it is a real kicker when it comes to making a no fuss dedicated system (although it sucks when it comes to making a good gaming PC). I believe that many sites actually view it as a high potential processor for HTPCs. Just remember to properly cool your rig (silent cooling FTW) when building your HTPC (my brother's sucked because he used a 9800GT).
So... building your own (if you have the expertise or can seduce/befriend someone with the expertise) will definitely yield savings, benefits and earn an essential geek badge.
Linux is out the question as my Dad (who will be using the HTPC) has used Windows all his life and will not learn another OS.
I get your point about the 3D and I have no intentions of using it for now... but it will be there for the future
I believe that both a LLano based system and the ASRock Vision 3D will fit the needs of a HTPC. As they cost a similar price and I am comfortable building my own system I have both options open to me.
I guess what it comes down to is which system is better... Llano with A75 chipset or i3 with HM55 chipset? Any opinions???
edcoppen said:
Linux is out the question as my Dad (who will be using the HTPC) has used Windows all his life and will not learn another OS.
I get your point about the 3D and I have no intentions of using it for now... but it will be there for the future
I believe that both a LLano based system and the ASRock Vision 3D will fit the needs of a HTPC. As they cost a similar price and I am comfortable building my own system I have both options open to me.
I guess what it comes down to is which system is better... Llano with A75 chipset or i3 with HM55 chipset? Any opinions???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Llano.
It has similar processing powers to an i3, but trumps even an i7 when it comes to GPU power. As for 3D, when the glassless 3DTVs come out, the specs will be different. I get most of my home movies off the internet, and from what I understand, a Blu-Ray disc has about 20+GB on average on it, so go figure.
Thank you for the good advice. I am nearly ready to make my purchase. I have decided to go for a custom Llano based system pretty similar to the one outlined in the OP. I will follow the advice though to downgrade the PSU and ram. Just a few more questions pls...
I was hoping to avoid using a dedicated GPU but I just realised i'm not sure if the motherboard supports lossless bitstreaming. I have looked but couldnt find out. Here's the motherboard I have in mind...
http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_Socket_FM1/F1A75M/#specifications/#specifications
If this board doesn't support it I will probably get this GPU but I want to avoid it if possible...
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-263-SP
Thanks again for the help so far!
This situation just got a whole load more confusing
It turns out that the only way to get lossless bitstreaming with a Llano-based system is to use a dedicated GPU. This kind of defies the whole point of going down the Llano route as its integrated graphics was one of it's key benefits. Seeing as everyone says the CPU performance of Llano system is underwhelming I am seriously reconsidering the whole build.
Instead I could base the build around the H55 chipset as this does support lossless bitstreaming. I could then use the superior CPU performance of an i3, but would still require dedicated graphics to escape crappy Intel HD2000.
Bearing in mind that bitstreaming is an essential part of the build what would you do?
Edit: the H55 path really limits things like SATA 6gb/s and USB 3.0
edcoppen said:
This situation just got a whole load more confusing
It turns out that the only way to get lossless bitstreaming with a Llano-based system is to use a dedicated GPU. This kind of defies the whole point of going down the Llano route as its integrated graphics was one of it's key benefits. Seeing as everyone says the CPU performance of Llano system is underwhelming I am seriously reconsidering the whole build.
Instead I could base the build around the H55 chipset as this does support lossless bitstreaming. I could then use the superior CPU performance of an i3, but would still require dedicated graphics to escape crappy Intel HD2000.
Bearing in mind that bitstreaming is an essential part of the build what would you do?
Edit: the H55 path really limits things like SATA 6gb/s and USB 3.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'll need to do a little homework first... I'll get back to you regarding the lossless streams
edcoppen said:
This situation just got a whole load more confusing
It turns out that the only way to get lossless bitstreaming with a Llano-based system is to use a dedicated GPU. This kind of defies the whole point of going down the Llano route as its integrated graphics was one of it's key benefits. Seeing as everyone says the CPU performance of Llano system is underwhelming I am seriously reconsidering the whole build.
Instead I could base the build around the H55 chipset as this does support lossless bitstreaming. I could then use the superior CPU performance of an i3, but would still require dedicated graphics to escape crappy Intel HD2000.
Bearing in mind that bitstreaming is an essential part of the build what would you do?
Edit: the H55 path really limits things like SATA 6gb/s and USB 3.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me that using an AMD Phenom/Athlon with a dedicated GPU will be slightly cheaper., although the whole rig will never fit in that casing...
I have decided to rule out the Llano system due to the complications with lossless audio. This now leaves me with an i3 system or Athlon like you suggested.
For an Athlon system I saw these parts:
AMD Athlon II X2 Dual Core 250 3.00GHz
Asus M4A88TD-M EVO/USB3 AMD 880G (Socket AM3)
These are cheaper than an i3 system for sure... as far as performance goes I am confident both the Athlon and i3 route is enough for a HTPC. I wonder about how their power consumption compares though?
edcoppen said:
I have decided to rule out the Llano system due to the complications with lossless audio. This now leaves me with an i3 system or Athlon like you suggested.
For an Athlon system I saw these parts:
AMD Athlon II X2 Dual Core 250 3.00GHz
Asus M4A88TD-M EVO/USB3 AMD 880G (Socket AM3)
These are cheaper than an i3 system for sure... as far as performance goes I am confident both the Athlon and i3 route is enough for a HTPC. I wonder about how their power consumption compares though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMD usually has a lower power profile than Intel, although if you underpowered your PC the processor will have to work REALLY hard to keep up... depends a lot.
Currently, an AMD-AMD setup for CPU and GPU combo is more efficient than an Intel-NVidia setup, although for the mid-range PCs, it might be different. A key component of power draw and power efficiency is actually your PSU. Most of the time, the PC will be on idle/low usage. Having an 80+ rated Gold or Platinum goes a loooooooong way towards saving power.
In terms of performance, the i3 does not have much benefit over AMD, because the good techs are limited to the i5s and i7s. AMD only differentiates the core count and superficial unlocks.
DISCLAIMER: A little late on this, but: I AM A HUGE AMD FAN. Not that I blow, but I really like AMD, and have been using AMD rigs for as long as I can remember.
Well I think I have come to a decision... again. Almost every component is different now. Here's my new selection of components:
Intel Core i3-2100T 2.5Ghz
MSI H67MA-E35 Intel H67
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-10666
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 6670 1024MB
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB
SilverStone Grandia GD04
OCZ StealthXStream2 400w Silent
I can get all of these for a round £500. Any last minute feedback from anyone before I buy it all would be much appreciated.
One thing that I didn't clarify with you. The service is movie streaming or downloading? Coz 1TB is mighty little for heavy downloading (trust me).
Although, from your setup, the parts look mighty fine to me. Just upgrade the CPU and GPU down the road and you'll have a mainstream gaming rig
As we can know, our phones have 8 cores, all Cortex 53, 64 bit.
Can someone make a program, to somehow make the phones cpu (or gpu/ram) to assist the PC through USB (wifi would be too slow..) Even if these 8 cores would work as one real cpu core, that would be nice I'm not the one who would use it + i can even pay if it's needed 5eu :d
Ideea seems to be easy, but in reality... I guess it is hard, cuz it need time for the information to go through usb-phone, to convert, to send it back etc... I read that it wasn't posibble some years ago, but now that we have ALL the same cpu (8 cortex 53 not 4a and 4b cores), + 64 bit
Usb port would be issue
Audriuskins said:
Usb port would be issue
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What would be the issue? Connection, i guess adb is good, too slow? Ahh
This is a joke, right?
BrainNotFound said:
This is a joke, right?
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Click to collapse
Ya it is, BrainNotFound
You know that a single core of your pc is like 10x more powerful than all of those 8 cores right. Plus, sharing the core's tasks through USB wouldn't be feasiable.
myclarity said:
You know that a single core of your pc is like 10x more powerful than all of those 8 cores right. Plus, sharing the core's tasks through USB wouldn't be feasiable.
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Click to collapse
What? 10x slower? But in some benchmarks it's actually really good, i believed that these 8 cores are at least as good as 1 cpu core... I mean secondary tasks, like ts/skype or something... Not main apps, like Photoshop or games
D1stRU3T0R said:
What? 10x slower? But in some benchmarks it's actually really good, i believed that these 8 cores are at least as good as 1 cpu core... I mean secondary tasks, like ts/skype or something... Not main apps, like Photoshop or games
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Click to collapse
For that, you can easily install those apps on your phone.
myclarity said:
For that, you can easily install those apps on your phone.
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Click to collapse
Right, but i can't ue some features + i need 2 headphones... One pc(hearing what i want) and one communicating
D1stRU3T0R said:
Right, but i can't ue some features + i need 2 headphones... One pc(hearing what i want) and one communicating
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Click to collapse
Just install them on your pc? Teamspeak's performance impact isn't noticeable, nor would a phone help it in any way, especially a low end phone like this one...
myclarity said:
Just install them on your pc? Teamspeak's performance impact isn't noticeable, nor would a phone help it in any way, especially a low end phone like this one...
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It was just an example...
I'm kind of amazed nobody's pointed out that this is not and could not be possible.
The CPUs in our phones are what is called ARM technology [which is, in short, a less powerful and portable type of processor chipset]
Your desktop, I would assume, uses x86 or amd64 (a.k.a x86_64) technology which has a completely different instruction set.
Essentially, the application in question, would have to be specially modified to run on an ARM chipset - but you might as well upgrade your PC.
Not only that, the apps you mentioned (TeamSpeak [and Skype?]) already have mobile versions anyway; so could you not just download an app and use it on your phone?
Finally, (if you run Windows), you might want to open Task Manager and check what's maxing out and upgrade that component, because I bet it's probably your RAM and not the CPU anyway...
gbmasterdoctor said:
I'm kind of amazed nobody's pointed out that this is not and could not be possible.
The CPUs in our phones are what is called ARM technology [which is, in short, a less powerful and portable type of processor chipset]
Your desktop, I would assume, uses x86 or amd64 (a.k.a x86_64) technology which has a completely different instruction set.
Essentially, the application in question, would have to be specially modified to run on an ARM chipset - but you might as well upgrade your PC.
Not only that, the apps you mentioned (TeamSpeak [and Skype?]) already have mobile versions anyway; so could you not just download an app and use it on your phone?
Finally, (if you run Windows), you might want to open Task Manager and check what's maxing out and upgrade that component, because I bet it's probably your RAM and not the CPU anyway...
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Click to collapse
Hi, i knowed all of this, but I didn't know that ARM can't process x86_x64 apps. My PC us giid enough, it's never running 100 ram or cpu, but still, little help won't be bad.