Anyone got one of these?
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=XDATHUMBPAD
As its a clip on device, I would hope that the onscreen keyboard disappears when you're using it... or does it come with software for caps lock control etc, come to think of it, can someone post a really good close-up photo showing the keys?
My main reason for being interested it ironically is more for gaming, as I'm a big fan of the Atari VCS emulator, and of course Pocket PC Mame, of course mame is a bit of a problem on the xda due to the few number of hardware buttons.
Obviously for more simple games the joypad is ok,
basics are
four directions
one fire button
a "coins" button
Exit game app button
The cenre click functionality of the xda joypad is difficult to use in some games, e.g. Atari VCS pitfall, where a fire button press is needed while moving left/right. The press down only works without directional control
Although its no problem for Atari games (I remap the fire button to the calendar or contacts button, with the emulator set to rotate the screen, in this configuration, the joypad is used with the right hand. ) Some MAME games have three fire buttons.
Obviously playing a two player arcade or VCS game on a handheld would be daft!
Obviously its a problem using the other hardware buttons, e.g volume or the two call buttons in case someone actually calls you while you're playing a game. In any case using these as fire buttons are too fiddly and close to the joypad.
I'd appreciate if someone could comment on this with their discoveries or experiences with this add on before I buy one.
I've been thinking of buying the diamond after reading these forums quite a bit, had my ipaq 4150 stolen which was wonderful for playstation and SNES/NES/Gameboy emulation, which would essentially be a deal breaker for me on a PDA phone.
Its very sad to know that you cannot re-map the buttons on some programs, however...
Has anyone tried any of the game emulators like Morphgear on the diamond, and are the buttons mappable as well as multi-key capable? And is the directional keys as good as most other pda phones for moving around? Essential for run-and-jump style games and tetris...
Simple answer: no. Not recommended. Some keys can't be remapped in Morphgear and it doesn't seem to allow more than one button pressed at a time. At any rate, the navigational pad is recessed and is not suitable for a thumb. Its too easy to hit the enter button or to go in the wrong direction. I used to have morphgear on my old PDA and it was perfect, but the diamond keypad is not suitable. I've been trying for a few weeks.
Sorry!
wow, thanks for the reply.
thats a tragedy....the upcoming xperia x1 looks a lot more game friendly with the two sets of four way buttons but I wonder if morphgear would have issues with the widescreen.
i wonder if the touch dual could use multi-touch on its 20-key pad.
because i travel quite often I have to have morphgear
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=398280
here's a thread about re-mapping keys with diamond. apparently touchflo locks some of the keys...
but even then, as you said, the two keys to the right of the arrows can't be pressed at the same time?
hmm
Sorry to revive this but I found something incredibly compelling. The Diamond playing arcade fighting games with on-screen keys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqyy9K3Uj64
Showing how fast and capable the diamond can be with on-screen tap areas. I was wondering if anyone wants to experiment with this and Nop's SNES emulator. I'm thinking the directional pad could actually be sufficient for emulation.
Seeing as Sprint is selling the Diamond for 250 with 2-year contract, I pretty much on-board with the diamond here.
I hope someone find a way for a 3rd party app to output capacative input (ie the lower touch) as hardkeys... So a game thinks you're pressing a button.
I have tested pocketgba on the diamond,works pretty well..lets u remap almost every key,but as said cant press 2 of the buttons at once,my setup is with 4 onscreen buttons,app in youtube video is problably finalburn,have yet to test it on my diamond,am also going to test a couple of other emu's later..
Yes, the emulator in the video is finalburn alpha.
If you are testing emulators, for snes try Nop's snes9x port.
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/cms/blogs/3/the_definitive_guide_to_playing_snes_gam
Apparently it excels in full-screen vga and on-screen tap areas. It would be interesting to see how the diamond holds up.
In this topic we will discuss about console/platform emulators compatible with Touch Pro.
So far I got these working on the TP:
- PicoDrive
- FinalBurn
- Genesis Plus by n0p (you can achieve better framerate with PicoDrive - but far away from smooth gameplay)
- PocketSNES by n0p (better for SNES, but far away from smooth gameplay)
- PocketSNES by masterall
The emulator were tested with sound.
Performance tests (more to come?)
- Picodrive (Sonic 3): HTC Tornado (SPV C600) vs HTC TOuch PRo.
More information about poor touch pro graphics performance can be found here.
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I've also tried PocketSNES without succes (black screen when trying to load a ROM), PocketNester Plus (program exits after loading a ROM)
Haven't checked yet:
- FPSCe (playstation emulator)
- MorphGear (multi-console: NES, Sega, GBA)
- PocketScumm
You may check this guide.
Please post here your experience with emulators on TP. Also, you may post link to workable emulators and I will update the first post.
I Tried finalburn, can load ROMs with it, plays perfect, but on the same time are unplayble, due that the keyboard maps the same (OE) key on all.
Still haven't found a fix for this. Do you know of one?
For the fix try this. If the arrow keys are inversed, just map:
- Up: left key
- Down: right key
- Left: down key
- Right: up key
Ah, one note, on PicoDrive you must select "Fast renderer" because the poor redraw issue of the device, otherwise you will get full of annoying vertical delays. Anyway, at this point emulation is better (fluid) on my good old Tornado overclocked at 252Mhz than on touch pro (tested Sonic 3 with PicoDrive) .
I've been using the Gameboy Color emulator PocketGnuboy v1.21 with the KforTouchPro 1.0.0.3 keyboard fix. It runs well when set to 160x144 with sound enabled. I've noticed that Frame Skip has to be set at Auto or else the phone crashes after a bit.
Scummvm works and looks fantastic on TP only issue i had was that i couldn't map keys to the qwerty keyboard, but most games where still very playable, even COMI worked for a while!
Hope that helps
using morphgear gbc module with the fix by dilta.. works very smoothly
For an SNES emulator, use n0p's:
http://n0p.tonych.info/?PocketSNES
You have to use portrait right mode without the stretch, which puts that ugly controller skin on the screen. If you do portrait right mode with the stretch all the roms just glitch out. Also, there's no sound. Other than that, games tend to run smoothly (although I've come across a few that just don't work). Still need the KforTouch fix though.
Also, in your main thread you said Morphgear supports GBA, but from what I've seen it only supports GBC. I was able to get PocketGBA to work:
http://sunbug.net/attachements/download/9
However, I haven't found any way to put the emulator in the correct display mode for using the hardware keyboard, so I was stuck using the sucky directional pad on the Touch Pro with the touch screen keys. But, it works like a charm.
Alot of complains about the TP i cant seem to fit any of the complains here on my device v 1.90.409.6
1:You have to use portrait right mode without the stretch, which puts that ugly controller skin on the screen. If you do portrait right mode with the stretch all the roms just glitch out! >-->> i play it perfectly on my TP with sound and in ladscape mode with the keyboard to play with no need to use the skin i use pocketsnes 1.52!
2: Ah, one note, on PicoDrive you must select "Fast renderer" because the poor redraw issue of the device! >-->> i use picodrive and cant see any redraw issue on my phone also need to limit fps to 50-60 to get the games run perfect or they run too fast!
the only redraw issue i get is in opera browser! IE work greate without the redraw...so im not sure why my device dont get the other problem on emulators..and for the key settings use (shift left) (ctrl left) (tab left) and (q or a) for the r1 and l1 buttons on the snes use the volume keys its alot playable then for emulators i recommend is PocketSnes 1.52 (super nintendo) PicoDrive 0.52 (sega genesis) PocketGba Rel 060723 (gameboy advance) fpsece (playstation slow yeat but some games you get 30fps+) PocketNesterPlus 0.9 (nintendo) FinalBurn 0.011 (arcade) is some of the emus i recommend for you and all this emulators i can run at landscape for a note hope this help some!
Quake3000 said:
Alot of complains about the TP i cant seem to fit any of the complains here on my device v 1.90.409.6
1:You have to use portrait right mode without the stretch, which puts that ugly controller skin on the screen. If you do portrait right mode with the stretch all the roms just glitch out! >-->> i play it perfectly on my TP with sound and in ladscape mode with the keyboard to play with no need to use the skin i use pocketsnes 1.52!
2: Ah, one note, on PicoDrive you must select "Fast renderer" because the poor redraw issue of the device! >-->> i use picodrive and cant see any redraw issue on my phone also need to limit fps to 50-60 to get the games run perfect or they run too fast!
the only redraw issue i get is in opera browser! IE work greate without the redraw...so im not sure why my device dont get the other problem on emulators..and for the key settings use (shift left) (ctrl left) (tab left) and (q or a) for the r1 and l1 buttons on the snes use the volume keys its alot playable then for emulators i recommend is PocketSnes 1.52 (super nintendo) PicoDrive 0.52 (sega genesis) PocketGba Rel 060723 (gameboy advance) fpsece (playstation slow yeat but some games you get 30fps+) PocketNesterPlus 0.9 (nintendo) FinalBurn 0.011 (arcade) is some of the emus i recommend for you and all this emulators i can run at landscape for a note hope this help some!
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You must be using those emulators without sound? That's the only way you're going to get 100% speed. I've used every one of those emulators you've mentioned, and I haven't been able to get full speed on any one using landscape mode with the hardware keyboard.
@Quake3000, I can record a video if you don't believe me. Try a fast action game such as Sonic 3 & Knukles.
... And the redraw issue si present not only in opera. Just see my videos from here (i've done a test with IE too). Maybe you just don't feel it.. try with other sites . Anyway, we are kinda offtopic here. We can contine the discussion in the appropiate topic specified above.
@kevingilbert thanks for the links, I will try them ASAP and update my first post. I haven't tried yet MorphGear, but on this page GBA is also mentioned..
@0llyTouchPro have you tried KforTouchPro?
@at10ti0n thanks !. any other experience?
P0ll0L0c0 said:
You must be using those emulators without sound? That's the only way you're going to get 100% speed. I've used every one of those emulators you've mentioned, and I haven't been able to get full speed on any one using landscape mode with the hardware keyboard.
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nope with sound my favorite games on the genesis is the sonic games i have them all from sonic 1 to sonic 3d even sonic spinball...what firmware do you have? anyway i will see when il get time to record a video. Need to get my nokia N95 back from the care center first. then il use that to record with since my video camera died this summer after a very big fall from mountain there the plan was to film when i was mountain climbing:/
Quake3000 said:
nope with sound my favorite games on the genesis is the sonic games i have them all from sonic 1 to sonic 3d even sonic spinball...what firmware do you have? anyway i will see when il get time to record a video. Need to get my nokia N95 back from the care center first. then il use that to record with since my video camera died this summer after a very big fall from mountain there the plan was to film when i was mountain climbing:/
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I'm amazed. And I'm almost certain it can't be true. I'm running the stock Sprint firmware. With sound I can only run 100% speed with jittery movement due to all the frame skipping. I'll have to await your video.
DSF I'd like to thank you for making this thread, I'm a gamer, and I really wanna know how the Touch Pro compares to the tilt in gaming. The tilt cant play any emulators without lagging or needing to disable sound.
One main concern I have is, does the TP have the same touchscreen bug that the tilt had? the one that when you held down the touchscreen it would lag horribly? best way to tell is map the onscreen buttons in finalburn and see if it starts lagging.
speaking of finalburn, what roms have you tried and how was the peformance?
mikeeey said:
DSF I'd like to thank you for making this thread, I'm a gamer, and I really wanna know how the Touch Pro compares to the tilt in gaming. The tilt cant play any emulators without lagging or needing to disable sound.
One main concern I have is, does the TP have the same touchscreen bug that the tilt had? the one that when you held down the touchscreen it would lag horribly? best way to tell is map the onscreen buttons in finalburn and see if it starts lagging.
speaking of finalburn, what roms have you tried and how was the peformance?
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Hey Mikeeey,
Good to see you on this forum. I'd only ever seen you post on Modaco.
Unfortunately, there's always a little lag on finalburn - even when using the software keyboard. Final Fight plays pretty good. CPS2 games (like D&D) I tried are a little more annoying. The big neo geo games also have some slowdown.
Actually, Mikeeey - your request made me find out something VERY interested. I just played D&D Tower of Doom and tried the screetap for the first time ever.
Using screentap instead of the action buttons - lag goes away altogether! I couldn't believe it and had to go through several fight scenes to prove it. Everytime I press a button on the keyboard in a fast action scene, the game stalls for a fraction of a second. If I do the same with a screen tap - there's no stall - it's just as fast as my 6700.
I think it's an issue of the program that we have to run in the background. I wish there was a fix for this, but HTC screwed up the keyboard setting such that without the background program - we can't map keys.
I've gotta say this is exciting, I played a few other games - and if we solved this, emulation on the touch pro would be near perfect.
Not sure why he says PokketNester doesn't work. Works perfectly for me.
P0ll0L0c0 said:
Hey Mikeeey,
Good to see you on this forum. I'd only ever seen you post on Modaco.
Unfortunately, there's always a little lag on finalburn - even when using the software keyboard. Final Fight plays pretty good. CPS2 games (like D&D) I tried are a little more annoying. The big neo geo games also have some slowdown.
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hey PolloLoco nice to see you here too! well if you look at my post count youl see I've actually been here for quite some time lol. How long have you been here?
I had no idea you got a Touch Pro, thats awesome! I thought you had verizon? isnt the verizon version not out yet? if it is what do they call it? I'm recommending it to my friend who has verizon.
how much lag is a little lag? On my tilt it was so bad, if i tried playing metal slug with sound it would slow down and the sound would be skippy cuz it was lagging.
wow... so.. they fixed the screen bug..but now there are button bugs?? Idk which is worse.. Well hopefully there will be a fix for the button mapping issue and the buttons slowing down the game. Have you flashed to a custom rom?
I noticed the TP has less buttons for games in portrait mode. It doesnt have the left and right softkey.. am I correct?
have you played in finalburn games that were in portrait mode, like those verical air shooter games? DonPachi for example?
Could someone try DoomGLES on the TouchPro?
I would have when I went to play with the Fuze at the AT&T store but the guy had to grab one from the back and he watched me as I played with it, waiting for me to give it back so he could put it back in the box.
I've 100% discovered that any slowdown with games on the touch pro - is 100% due to lag from the keyboard. It may not even be the background program "Kfortouchpro". Some users have reported that they have keyboard lag when typing - UNTIL they flash to a new rom (GSM version). I hope there's a similar fix for the CDMA version. Then it may be reasonable to use this phone for gameplay with the keyboard.
What I did to test this was by digging up (it took hours) my old smartphone bluetooth joystick. I installed the program (told it it was an HTC Magician) and then mapped the joystick buttons to the very few hardware keys that register. By the way - on the keyboard, up down left and right map independently without k for touch pro - and there's apparently no lag.
Once I'd mapped to the hardware keys, I started playing Finalburn. It played awesome. Almost 100% speed. On some high speed action shootemups (shocktroopers 2) - I saw a little slowdown. That said, I'm picky about emulation, and I have no concerns about recommending Finalburn on the touchpro. It's beautiful, great speed, and it looks and sounds great on the VGA screen and speakers.
I then tried Picodrive - and it worked just as well! The difficult and jittery gameplay I had before, were purely from the keyboard lag. I'm happy - and I'm still hopeful I can connect my phone to the tv and play games from my couch on the bluetooth joystick. However, I'm expecting serious slowdown due to tv out.
Mikeeey, to answer 2 of your questions. I'd heard about Verizon's initial plans to issue a crippled touch pro - slower processor and half the ram - for the same price. So I sent a complaint e-mail, wondering why it wouldn't make sense to switch to Sprint. I never got a reply. So I decided to switch to Sprint. It makes sense for me - the same unlimited data plan is at least $15 cheaper than Verizon's and I haven't had any coverage issues since I got this phone 3 weeks ago.
The Verizon phone, since many user complaints - may not be as crippled as originally planned. The latest rumors I've heard were that the Verizon XV6850 will have almost the same processor and 192 megs of RAM as opposed to the 256 of the Sprint Touch Pro. Early leaks suggested that the Verizon prototype is a touch slower. We'll see.
Mikeeey - the vertical shooters you're suggesting would stink on this phone that way. The optical joystick and surrounding buttons stink. Very often you press one direction (they're connected) and the next direction registers. So it's not very accurate and I try not to use it. For a vertical shooter I'd either use the direction buttons on the pull out keyboard (they work as I mentioned) and the 3 front face buttons that register.
well im glad you discovered the problem, I'm glad to know it's fast!
ah yes, the speakers, how are they? louder than the 6700 and kaiser? does it have good sound quality?
So I assume you use the arrow keys on the keyboard then, isnt that difficult considering you cant easily go from 1 key to the next or press 2 at the same time. For example trying to press right and up at the same time? on my Tilt if I try to do that I end up pressing "enter" as well.
damn.. vertical shooters are my favorite.. does the D-pad actually "click" or is it touch buttons? I didnt have enough time to figure it out when I played with it. and is there a single softkey button on the device anywhere?