Database Develop

Got HSUPA?

Does anyone know if this thing actually supports HSUPA or not? I recall that being one of the new features mentioned when I first heard about the Kaiser, however I haven't come across any official word on it.
I wonder if it's been hidden away like the GPS feature was on the Trinity.

I dunno, but if it does, I hope it's Category 6

When I was in NYC I had an "H" show up on my Kaiser ... also, I have the HSUPA enabled in the device settings ... so I would say that HSUPA is supported though I have no idea what category

indeed it was tried in Dallas ( the only place with UPA ) however in few weeks all the markets in the west will be able to handle UPA ( up to 1mb on he UL)

so the network is hsupa enabled or the kaiser is?
eric b

According to the data sheet the chipset is providing
- High-Speed Uplink Packet Access
(HSUPA), up to 5.76 Mbps (Category 6)
- High-Speed Downlink Packet Access
(HSDPA), up to 7.2 Mbps (Category 8)
http://www.cdmatech.com/download_library/pdf/msm7200_chipset.pdf
So it is a question of the Software an the Network/Provider.

According to manual:
"Functionality
HSDPA/UMTS: Tri-band (850, 1900, and 2100 Mhz).
HSDPA: Up to 384kbps for upload and 3.6Mbps for download;
UMTS: Up to 384kbps for upload and download
GSM/GPRS/EDGE: Quad-band (850, 900, 1800, and
1900 Mhz)"
Hope class 8 HSDPA and (any class) HSUPA can be later enabled through ROM updates.

Which Tilt do I have?

There appears to be two different ATT/Cingular-branded HTC Tilts, the 8900 and the 8925. How do I determine which one I have? The reason I ask, is that I can across:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=861&id2=818

Um, every spec is the same except for the camera. *hint hint* Cameraaaa.

8900 = no camera
8925 = w/ camera

well for one thing is that the 8900 has no camera and uses CSD, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA
and the 8925 has a camera and uses CSD, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA
8900 Built-in Digital Camera
Main Camera: Not supported
Autofocus (AF): Not supported
Macro Mode: Not supported
Built-in Flash: Not supported
Secondary Camera: Not supported
8925 CMOS sensor, 3.1MP
Supported
Not supported
Not supported
Not supported

Aside from all the above mentioned, what caught my eye was:
8900 - CSD, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA
8925 - CSD, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA

USA 3g

I understand that currently the Diamond does not support 3g data in the USA. There are rumors that the Diamond will eventually release in the US on the GSM network sometime after the CDMA release. Seeing as HTC already proved that sometimes they can enable frequencies with just a radio rom update, do you think the current Diamond will someday be able to support 3g in the USA?
I sold my Tilt a few weeks ago and got myself an Iphone. I am starting to hate the Iphone and really would like to go back to a WM device. But the Tilt is not an option and the only phone that looks worth the jump is the Diamond. But I do not want to buy a phone that will never be able to support 3g. Edge is just too slow, and with AT&T you pay the same data rate for an Edge or a 3G phone.
I have done plenty of searches and can't seem to find any conclusive answers. Maybe there isn't one.
Thanks for any suggestions you may have. Please don't turn this into an iphone bashing thread. The iphone has many good qualities, it just does not suit my needs as I thought it would.
Jeff

no you must wait for the local diamond release. they are hardware specific.

Well that just sucks. I guess I will have no choice but to wait for the Diamond or the Xperia to invade our borders.

its does suck, i have a Diamond from Asia and i cant use the 850Mhz 3G Telstra network.... lucky for the 3Telstra joint venture network!

I thought that was one of the benefits of the new 1.93 ROM, it utilizes 850Mhz, no?
Mark

thats only GMS band and is also only sim card specific. i have the 1.93 rom and a telstra next g sim and i only get UMTS (900-2100) + GSM (900+1800) bands...

frozenwaffles said:
no you must wait for the local diamond release. they are hardware specific.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats just a bummer. Guess it's edge for me, unless something miraculously happens

Can anyone explain exactly what it will take for HSDPA in the US?
Hi -
Similar to the original poster, I have been watching with anticipation the development of the Diamond and the XDA cookers' work on unlocking its capabilites. I too am confused, with many conflicting posts about the ability to do HSPDA in the US. Can anyone explain exactly what it will take? Based on my understanding:
1.) Ability to transmit and recieve on the radio frequency used by the telco / phone company for UMTS service (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System). For AT&T, I thought this frequency was 850 mhz. Based on peoples' reports and some testing done, it seems like the Diamond can be unlocked through a ROM flash to broadcast and recieve on 850 mhz. So far, so good.
2.) Ability to use the UMTS service
My reading of Wikipedia seems to say that UMTS is a "technology" -
This is different from a "standard" like GSM,which is an integrated system of hardware (radio transmitters and towers), an "air interface" (a set of protocols to handle packet transfers, analogous to TCP/IP on the Internet, only using radio waves rather than wires), an "infrastructure" (base station sub-system and GPRS (packet) subsystem - towers and the computers and routers that connect them) and connection software (validating users, tracking usage, billing, transmission control codecs, etc.). UMTS is a collection of transmission control codecs and user identification codecs operating within a GSM network. So, UMTS is a phrase that describes improvements to the old, 2G GSM protocols. But it is still GSM.
AT&T in the US is using WCDMA as the "air interface" over which it is running its UMTS service. It is using the 850 mhz frequency. One key difference between GSM and UMTS is that UMTS uses a "Universal Subscriber Identification Modue" (USIM) rather than a plain old Subscriber Identificaton modue (SIM). If AT&T's UMTS service requires a USIM, then having only a SIM will prevent you from accessing the UMTS service - you will only be able to access the data service offered by the GSM, which is EDGE in the US, not WCDMA (i.e., only 2G). This is regardless of hardware. If this is the case, then it's a bummer.
HOWEVER....the UMTS service CAN use SIM cards as well, so AT&T may have theirs configured to use SIM cards as well. I currently have the HTC Trinity with what I think is a SIM card - I was forced to "upgrade" the SIM card when Cingular "integrated" with AT&T, so my card is branded Cingular, but has the snazzy 3G fireball on it. So maybe it's actually a USIM? My Trinity does have the "H" icon show up, and I can get 300kbps or so tethering to my laptop (but not above that - grrrr...) so maybe I'm getting UMTS service on that device? If so, then the SIM vs USIM should not be an issue if I got a Diamond.
3.) Ability to use the HSPDA protocol
As far as I can tell, HSPDA is pure protocol - just like TCP/IP. It achieves faster speeds by using fast packet scheduling and something called adaptive modualtion and coding. It is part of the UMTS standards, so it's actually part fo the overall UMTS system, but not everyone uses it. If your phone and your carrier can use this protocol, you can get HSPDA.
Based on the above, it seems reasonable that the Diamond is capable of transmitting at HSPDA speeds in the US on AT&T's network. Has anyone been able to actually do this? If not, could those much more informed than me explain the obstacle? Is it a setting on AT&T's side? A setting on the Diamond? Is the radio hardware for UMTS somehow different? Does the Diamond lack WCDMA capability due to lack of software?
I understand that some people have tried selecting the band on their ROM-flashed phone to get 3G on AT&T with no success, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. I'm trying to understand the eaxt nature of the obstacle.
Thanks!!!
Mike

I can't speak for all the technical hardware specs possibilities. But here's the latest status as i understand it:
1. There are at least 2 GSM-based Diamond versions available now: DIAM100 and DIAM130. The DIAM100 is the original one that went on sale. The DIAM130 seems to be the new Telstra Diamond that does support 850 3G.
2. There are lots of radio ROMs out available now. Some unlock 850 GSM for the DIAM100, which was previously thought impossible due to lacking of an 850 radio antenna. But that was a lie obviously. No Radio ROMs are currently avail that have successfully unlocked 850 3G. And since the DIAM130 is the only one working on 850 3G (using a radio ROM that is available for the DIAM100 even), the prevailing thought is it is actually a HW limitation on the DIAM100. I.e. it cannot do 850 3G no matter the radio ROM. (Note that OS ROMs have no effect on the radios ability. However, they might unlock the availability of the frequency selection in the Phone Settings window on WM. Note also that simply the existence of a selection in that window does NOT mean it physically can do that frequency.
3. No radio ROM thus far has made any iteration of the Diamond capable of doing 1700 anything, which is what TMo US would need for its 3G network. So, if a TMo US one is to become available, it would be yet another HW version.
#2 and #3 are still just theory, but pretty solid ones at this point.
So, my question is re: the DIAM130. What other 3G bands is it capable of. Only 850? Is it still quad-band GSM capable? If its flashed with other Radio ROMs, does it still maintain the same capabilities? I'd consider getting one if possible and using it here on AT&T if it is (or can be) quad band GSM and 850 3G. Esp if it still had 2100 3G, or even if it could be flashed when necessary to support 2100 3G when I travel. The lengths I've considered going to for this.
In any case, I lose more and more interest in this product each day. I'm inching closer to a hopeful AT&T Omnia, which too has drama surrounding it. And since I just got my g/f an iPhone 3G, I hate to admit, I'm heavily considering one as well now. What I might lose in flexibility, I think I would gain in having a solid device, that works worldwide 3G, and would keep everything I want in sync.
Sad really. I've been a WM-trooper for a decade now. 80% my music is in WMA format. For the stupidity of these dramas, WM may very well lose a devotee. (And as you can see from my willingness to import the phone and flash it whenever necessary, I'm not just giving up, I'm trying my best. but when the companies make it this hard, you gotta question if its worth it.)

Thanks Jomo!!!
Sounds like we're in the same boat. I won't get an iPone because part of my reason for having the phone is being able to tether to my laptop in an emergency. If the Diamond can't do it, I'll stick with my Trinity, which can. Really, I just want the better form factor...
One thing that has me confused is the whole radio thing. I'm no electrical engineer, but it seems like there are two components to the "radio" of the cellphone.
1.) The hardware - specific physical characteristics like the length of the antenna will determine the frequency you can use. I remember the old days of citizens band radios (that's CBs to those good buddies who saw Convoy <grin>) where you had to change physical crystals to get the right frequencies. Yes, apparently I'm old (geez, when did THAT happen???). I can also see the clock cycle of the radio's DSP determining how quickly the radio can handle packets.
2.) The software - herein lies all the nitty gritty details about protocols and the like - you need to have radio software that uses all of the hardware - like "turning on" the 850 band.
I guess the real questions for you gurus out there are
a.) how much of the UMTS protocol is programmed into the chip versus based on software (more software-based would support there being a software solution)? The chip used in the Diamonds is the Qualcomm 7201 chipset (at least the GSM ones do) which specifically lists UMTS as a capability, so it seems like the software just isn't using it right.
b.) do you need hardware components for each frequency of UMTS?
It just seems that going from GSM to UMTS is a matter of using different software, although you would have to have hardware capable of UMTS speeds. Ifthis is the case, then a hardware solution is possible. If it requires sepcial software to add into the existing software, we may be out of luck until one is created with the right stuff.
Ugh. My head hurts. Learning cellular radio through internet research is not easy. I suppose it would be easier if I were smarter <grin>
Mike

This may be old news, and still doesn't answer the querstion whether the current batch of Diamonds can be software / ROM updated to do US 3G, but at least there is a device that can - the product name DIAM110 (as opposed to the DIAM100 and DIAM130) has been submitted to the FCC a while back and definitely does do 850 UMTS.
http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=5028
Good luck!
Mike

Excellent thread!
Very informative - thanks for doing the research and putting it all in one place! I too am somewhat confused as to the availability of 3G data access on AT&T - this thread has helped me understand some of the technologies involved and raised some interesting questions.

3.5G is backwards compatible with 3G
I just read in the wikipedia that 3.5g is backwards compatible with 3G tecnology, so i cant find the point in which Diamonds just CANT use regular 850 3G. Perhaps is just a little tweaking over the HW. But I believe it will be done sooner or later

DIAM100 with RTR6285?
Thanks for the informative post. I've been looking for the answer to this question long before I got my diamond. Here's what I've found so far. Hope it helps.
According to this page and this page, Diamond uses Qualcomm RTR6285 as its RF Transceiver. And based on the press release from Qualcomm,
The RTR6285 transceiver supports the following bands:
* North American triple-band UMTS (bands 2, 4, 5)
* Japanese triple-band UMTS (bands 1, 6, 9)
* European, Chinese and rest-of-world triple-band UMTS (bands 1, 3, 8)
* Global quadruple-band GSM and EDGE (800/900/1800/1900 MHz)
Note that "North American triple-band UMTS (bands 2, 4, 5)" means it supports 1900MHz, 1700MHz, and 850MHz
Here's the wiki page that lists the UMTS frequency bands
Many users on this forum mentioned that Diamond lacks 850MHz 3G support due to the hardware limitation, but that contradicts the RTR6285 press release. Can somebody please confirm that DIAM100 uses RTR6285?
Thanks,
Bruce

WOW!!! bruce0126 you just make my day!!!

Keep the dream alive people!

So if its the same Hardware then what is keeping the phone from working on UMTS 850 band?
The ROM is activated for the North American frequencies so its not a ROM issue.
Thats ODDDDDDD

could it be lack of antenna for those specific bands?

we need a techwiz!!
Ive seen the specs also and the radio hardware is supposed to recieve at 850mhz, perhaps the transmited has been " Programmed" in factory to forbid the use of this particular band. Of course im only guessing.
Any one has a good new about american 3G in our DIAM100 ??

Mods Can You Make This Thread Sticky?
I wnder wy the Mods havent dne this thread as sticky ;O
Sticky it please!

HTC Kaiser. It is possible to work in HSUPA mode?

Hi All
Ukrainian operator U'tel upgrade his equipment. Now i can and possible to use HSUPA internet.
I know that in the chipset MSM HTC Kaiser's is present a possibility work in HSUPA. But, it is possible to work my HTC KAiser in HSUPA mode (up to 7.2 Mbit sec)?
Maybe need to change some values in the registry, or do something else??

ParaFoil said:
Hi All
Ukrainian operator U'tel upgrade his equipment. Now i can and possible to use HSUPA internet.
I know that in the chipset MSM HTC Kaiser's is present a possibility work in HSUPA. But, it is possible to work my HTC KAiser in HSUPA mode (up to 7.2 Mbit sec)?
Maybe need to change some values in the registry, or do something else??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think tytn ii support this (not really sure), but thinking since it support HSDPA (HSUPA for up, HSDPA for down).

My take on the speed question
ParaFoil said:
But, it is possible to work my HTC KAiser in HSUPA mode (up to 7.2 Mbit sec)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An interesting question and the answer, not beyond 3.6 Mbps. From the side of the box, the device specs specifically list:
HSDPA/UMTS: Tri-band 850, 1900, 2100 MHz
HSDPA: Up to 384kbps for upload and 3.6 Mbps for download.
As both HSDPA and HSUPA come in different speeds (even going beyond 7.2 Mbps with the latest and greatest revisions), it looks like 3.6 Mbps is a set limitation of the max upload speed imposed by HTC. Whether that limitation is set in physical hardware eg silicon, or firmware such as ROM or Radio code, I don't know but I suspect (just as with 'analog' modem chips) it's the former (forced obsolecence has got to be a good way of selling more chips down the line afterall ).
The relevant part of the Qualcomm Datasheet for the MSM 7200 chip reads:
Air interfaces supported:
- WCDMA (UMTS) R6
- High-Speed Downlink Packet Access
(HSDPA), up to 7.2 Mbps (Category 8)
- High-Speed Uplink Packet Access
(HSUPA), up to 5.76 Mbps (Category 6)
I'd imagine at least one of HTC or Qualcomm would have capitalised on any future upgradeability of the speed by mentioning it on advertising, spec sheets or packaging but nothing I've found (including in the xda-wiki) mentions anything about it being able to go any faster - just as well for me because my current network provider says their HSDPA network top speed limit is currently 3.6 Mbps.
Maybe someone with a deeper understanding of how these things actually work, can provide a more authoritive answer.

s21ht 日版钻石在中国使用不了2100的WCDMA网络。英语不好会中文帮翻一下！

s21ht 日版钻石在中国使用不了2100的WCDMA网络。英语不好会中文帮翻一下！
s21ht 日版钻石在中国使用不了2100的WCDMA网络。英语不好会中文帮翻一下！
此机好像在日本使用1700M 频率，在中国无法使用中国联通的WCDMA，刷 了几个ROM跟RADIO都没办，不知是此机只支持1700M吗。无法支持2100M的中国联通WCDMA吗
会中文的帮我翻译一下。。哈哈。谢谢

shishi007 said:
s21ht 日版钻石在中国使用不了2100的WCDMA网络。英语不好会中文帮翻一下！
此机好像在日本使用1700M 频率，在中国无法使用中国联通的WCDMA，刷 了几个ROM跟RADIO都没办，不知是此机只支持1700M吗。无法支持2100M的中国联通WCDMA吗
会中文的帮我翻译一下。。哈哈。谢谢
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ENGLISH dude! If you look around the forums, everyone uses english. If you don't know english, try a translator, or use a japanese site. We are all more then happy to help, but we can't help if we can't read what you wrote.

shishi007 said:
s21ht 日版钻石在中国使用不了2100的WCDMA网络。英语不好会中文帮翻一下！
此机好像在日本使用1700M 频率，在中国无法使用中国联通的WCDMA，刷 了几个ROM跟RADIO都没办，不知是此机只支持1700M吗。无法支持2100M的中国联通WCDMA吗
会中文的帮我翻译一下。。哈哈。谢谢
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TD Japanese Version couldn't use the WCDMA(2100) Network in China.
This TD seemed to use WCDMA 1700 in Japan, but couldn't be used in China. I've tried flashing a few Roms, also some Radios. Still it didn't.
Is this TD only support 1700MHz in Japan, which means it couldn't be used in WCDMA Network in China, which is 2100MHz?
Sorry for my poor translation.

Reuental said:
TD Japanese Version couldn't use the WCDMA(2100) Network in China.
This TD seemed to use WCDMA 1700 in Japan, but couldn't be used in China. I've tried flashing a few Roms, also some Radios. Still it didn't.
Is this TD only support 1700MHz in Japan, which means it couldn't be used in WCDMA Network in China, which is 2100MHz?
Sorry for my poor translation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The translation is better then the kanji. {I can't remember Katakana or Hirogana, been too long since I have read, wrote, or even spoke} If you can translate this back for Shishi, that would be wonderful. Thanx for the help as a translater.
Check the model # {label under battery}, & enter the model into the search engine @ PDADB.net. This will list all the frequencies your specific model is capable of. Model # will be DIAM*** {replace the *s with the #s on your Diam.}
You can flash ROMs until the chip burns out, but this will not help, because all the frequency data is in the Radio. If the site says that your model is capable of 2100 {which I believe it should be}, then just find a radio that runs at 2100MHz, & flash it.
If this is a CDMA model then I am not too sure what the frequencies are. GSM Touch Diamonds are quad-band phones & definately utilize the 2100MHz WCDMA. Soe GSM Diams only show the tri-band frequencies, but if you just flash a quand-band Radio to it, & it'll be fully functional as a quad. It has the Hardware, you just may need to change the software.
Also, if you go to the phone settings, there is a tab for "Band". Look there & see if the 2100MHz is listed. If it is, check that it's enabled. If it's not then just flash a quad radio.
Good luck

Humblehippie said:
The translation is better then the kanji. {I can't remember Katakana or Hirogana, been too long since I have read, wrote, or even spoke} If you can translate this back for Shishi, that would be wonderful. Thanx for the help as a translater.
Check the model # {label under battery}, & enter the model into the search engine @ PDADB.net. This will list all the frequencies your specific model is capable of. Model # will be DIAM*** {replace the *s with the #s on your Diam.}
You can flash ROMs until the chip burns out, but this will not help, because all the frequency data is in the Radio. If the site says that your model is capable of 2100 {which I believe it should be}, then just find a radio that runs at 2100MHz, & flash it.
If this is a CDMA model then I am not too sure what the frequencies are. GSM Touch Diamonds are quad-band phones & definately utilize the 2100MHz WCDMA. Soe GSM Diams only show the tri-band frequencies, but if you just flash a quand-band Radio to it, & it'll be fully functional as a quad. It has the Hardware, you just may need to change the software.
Also, if you go to the phone settings, there is a tab for "Band". Look there & see if the 2100MHz is listed. If it is, check that it's enabled. If it's not then just flash a quad radio.
Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your help!
检查你的TD的型号（取下电池你就能看到），将你的手机型号输入PDADB.net的搜索引擎，它将会列出你的型号所适合的频率。型号是DIAM***。
你可以刷ROM，但是这没有作用，因为所有和你频率相关信息都在Radio里面。如果你的型号适合2100Mhz，那就选择一个2100频率的Radio，再刷Radio。
如果这个TD是CDMA型号的，那么我也不清楚他能适合频段是多少Mhz。GSM的TD是4频手机，所以口肯定能使用WCDMA的2100Mhz。GSM只显示3频，但如果你刷了四频的Radio，它就是个全功能的4频手机了。你只需选用合适的软件来激活它的硬件。
此外，如果你进入手机的设置项，其中有一个频段(BAND)选项，看看是否其中有2100Mhz 的频段，如果有，只需启用即可，如果没有，则需要刷一个4频段的Radio

Thank you for playing translater

Thank you everyone
http://pdadb.net/
rimary search results in names of Devices (1/3)
Searching process took 0.0198 seconds. Only one result matches exactly with "s21ht"
Compare Emobile Touch Diamond S21HT (HTC Diamond 210)
Release Date: October, 2008
51x102x11.35mm, 110g, Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional , 32bit Qualcomm MSM7201A, 528MHz CPU, 192MiB RAM, 256+3814MiB ROM, 2.8" 480x640 color transflective TFT LCD, Proprietary audio jack, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS1700, CSD, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, mini-USB port, Bluetooth, WLAN, GPS, A-GPS, QuickGPS, FM radio, accelerometer, 3.1MP cam., AF, sec. camera, 900mAh removable battery | See all details
no umts2100
Can not be used 2100MHZ chinaunicom Network
谢谢上面的人，特别是帮我翻译的兄弟！！