[OFF TOPIC] Project Ara and Phone Blocks - HTC First

Since this is one of the most interesting topics, i just decided to make this thread cause we were going off topic on other threads with this.
So lets hear it...
1. What you think about project ara, and phone blocks
2. Does it have a future? Why/Why not?
3. Will it work in the real world? Why/Why not?
4. Comments?
Phone Blocks
Phonebloks would consist of a main board onto which bloks could be snapped on by the user like Legos. Each blok is responsible for a unique function of the phone, much as a desktop computer has a distinct sound card, graphics card, processor, monitor, and power supply.[5] As a result, instead of replacing the entire phone when it becomes obsolete or broken, one could simply replace the defective or performance-limiting part. If the consumer wanted a better camera, for example, he or she could swap their small generic camera blok for a larger zoom camera from a manufacturer such as Nikon or Canon instead of buying a phone with a better camera. In theory, this would lead to fewer people throwing away their phones and contributing to the ever-increasing problem of electronic waste. Smartphones based on the Phonebloks system would be sold part by part, as well as in starter sets. When assembled, the phone would have a screen covering the entirety of the front, volume bottons and headphone jacks along the outer edge, and bloks clicked into the back, forming a rectangular block shape overall.
Project Ara
Project Ara is an initiative by Motorola Mobility that aims to develop a free, open hardware platform for creating highly modular smartphones. The platform will include a structural frame that holds smartphone modules of the owner's choice, such as a display, keyboard or an extra battery. It would allow users to swap out malfunctioning modules or upgrade individual modules as innovations emerge, providing longer lifetime cycles for the handset, and potentially reducing electronic waste.
Potential issues with the modular concept include a tradeoff between volumetric efficiency and modularity, as the framework interface holding the device would increase overall size and weight. Additional issues include regulatory approval; the FCC tests single configurations for approval, not modular configurations
Works Cited
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonebloks

russian392 said:
Since this is one of the most interesting topics, i just decided to make this thread cause we were going off topic on other threads with this.
So lets hear it...
1. What you think about project ara, and phone blocks
2. Does it have a future? Why/Why not?
3. Will it work in the real world? Why/Why not?
4. Comments?
Phone Blocks
Phonebloks would consist of a main board onto which bloks could be snapped on by the user like Legos. Each blok is responsible for a unique function of the phone, much as a desktop computer has a distinct sound card, graphics card, processor, monitor, and power supply.[5] As a result, instead of replacing the entire phone when it becomes obsolete or broken, one could simply replace the defective or performance-limiting part. If the consumer wanted a better camera, for example, he or she could swap their small generic camera blok for a larger zoom camera from a manufacturer such as Nikon or Canon instead of buying a phone with a better camera. In thally, this would lead to fewer people throwing away their phones and contributing to the ever-increasing problem of electronic waste. Smartphones based on the Phonebloks system would be sold part by part, as well as in starter sets. When assembled, the phone would have a screen covering the entirety of the front, volume bottons and headphone jacks along the outer edge, and bloks clicked into the back, forming a rectangular block shape overall.
Project Ara
Project Ara is an initiative by Motorola Mobility that aims to develop a free, open hardware platform for creating highly modular smartphones. The platform will include a structural frame that holds smartphone modules of the owner's choice, such as a display, keyboard or an extra battery. It would allow users to swap out malfunctioning modules or upgrade individual modules as innovations emerge, providing longer lifetime cycles for the handset, and potentially reducing electronic waste.
Potential issues with the modular concept include a tradeoff between volumetric efficiency and modularity, as the framework interface holding the device would increase overall size and weight. Additional issues include regulatory approval; the FCC tests single configurations for approval, not modular configurations
Works Cited
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonebloks
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Click to collapse
Developing will wither be crap, difficult or be little to none at all. So... Maybe some devs might not go for it d:
Although I thinks its a great idea that can and will most likely take off in the real world, basically an android OS powered handheld PC

abrahammmmmmm_ said:
Developing will wither be crap, difficult or be little to none at all. So... Maybe some devs might not go for it d:
Although I thinks its a great idea that can and will most likely take off in the real world, basically an android OS powered handheld PC
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Didn't think of a handheld PC. Maybe just a small portable desktop computer that you could just hook up to a monitor
Sent from my HTC first using xda app-developers app

The bus over which devices communicate with one another evolves as well. So once the bus evolves all your blocks could be absolete, not to mention that a lot of device types currently favor a particular type of bus rather a universal one. So if you were to go with using all the different busses that the industry likes to use (i2c, i2s, spi, usb, etc) you would end up having to place them at every block interconnect which would make for a very inefficient design.
Sent from my HTC first using xda app-developers app

r00tb33r said:
The bus over which devices communicate with one another evolves as well. So once the bus evolves all your blocks could be absolete, not to mention that a lot of device types currently favor a particular type of bus rather a universal one. So if you were to go with using all the different busses that the industry likes to use (i2c, i2s, spi, usb, etc) you would end up having to place them at every block interconnect which would make for a very inefficient design.
Sent from my HTC first using xda app-developers app
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could you go into more detail on that? dont quite understand what a bus is

russian392 said:
could you go into more detail on that? dont quite understand what a bus is
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_(computing)

In computer architecture, a bus (from the Latin omnibus, meaning 'for all') is a communication system that transfers data between components inside a computer, or between computers. This expression covers all related hardware components (wire, optical fiber, etc.) and software, including communication protocol.
Early computer buses were parallel electrical wires with multiple connections, but the term is now used for any physical arrangement that provides the same logical functionality as a parallel electrical bus. Modern computer buses can use both parallel and bit serial connections, and can be wired in either a multidrop (electrical parallel) or daisy chain topology, or connected by switched hubs, as in the case of USB.
Sent from my HTC first using xda app-developers app

The idea would only work if phone blocks had enough interest and funding. That's why project Aura seems for feasible. It's funded by Google
Sent from my HTC first using xda app-developers app

russian392 said:
The idea would only work if phone blocks had enough interest and funding. That's why project Aura seems for feasible. It's funded by Google
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Today is going to be the second day of project ara convention, for who is interested.
I don't like so much the ara style, i'd like to see PB instead, but we are far enough to realize in a short time.
Honestly i'm watching to porting desktop modularity in some way to mobile phone: you may buy 4 endo phones, 3 will do your desktop and one is used for a mobile device... when you are at home you can connect all 4 to get more power.
Ok this is just a dream ... just think about it: how can you or why can't you realise it ?
Thanks

Related

New apple Ifoon versus the BA

From what I've seen there is not a lot more that the Ifoon can offer over what the BA has.
I like the look of the ifoon, but other than edge what else does it offer?
A bigger hole in the bank account.
Agreed.
Apple, welcome to 2004.
Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.
no ways yoz
fraser said:
Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.
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haha bros that's an apple patent.. we all know this!! software support always been an apple downfall. Not only that but no physical buttons?!? What happens when the 'super apple' touchscreen goes out? ouch! You got that bar of soap it so much resembles!
I dig my BA, but it's too big and bulky, get a hermes for that price! Apple and Jobs built a POS. They're just jealous that M$ is getting so much recognition with new smartphones. Last year at this time it seemed half the world didn't even know what a smartphone was.. until the release of these smartphones like the Q/blackjack, every lil 16yr old cries to their parents for one. What a crock! My opinion.
Apple needs to stick to software, the Intel macs are tearing up the G5's all around.
I have watched the introduction of the iPhone over the net.
This is the best device of this class!! It is lightning fast, it is operated with fingers only (no stylus!!!!!) it is a unique Softwae/hardware simbiot!!! After all how many IPods have crashed or needed soft reset, hard reset and so on? If Apple release this wonderfull device I'll get myself one for sure!
This is personal opinion!
OrionBG, I'm not convinced. I know at least three iPod users that have had serious problems. Dodgy batteries, music db corruption (complete loss) and other issues with iTunes have left me quite unimpressed. The mere fact that they force you to use iTunes bites the big one. My friend had to reset his whole library after his PC hard drive crashed. Well, he would have if it hadn't been for the "illegal" utilities I helped him use to recover most of it.
Apples "Just Works" thing is largely a marketing myth. Pop over to any unofficial apple forum to see the real issues that their hardware has. You can't discuss these things on their official forums; if you raise a bug that they can't be bothered fixing, they'll just delete the thread everytime you raise it. Check the discussion in that link; they have a long history of this.
They also sue websites and threaten them if they say anything bad about apple. If this forum was larger they would be complaining about my current post. Paul over at Modaco had to remove a Today screen for Windows Mobile that looked a little like the apple one announced. If you announce any Apple "secrets", they will threaten to sue you even though you have never signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement. They have bigger lawyers than you and more money to spend so people rarely fight back.
Apple suck. This is not the right way to run a company IMHO. They are a bad company guilty of anti-competitive practices and this has been consistent over the past five years. Their recent hardware has been very anti-consumer and of poor quality. The only reason they get away with it is because their main competitor has a worse track record in these regards and that they have a fantastic marketing department.
Have u heard about piratebay activity called http://buysealand.com/ they've just decided to buy small "island" - no lawyers problem anymore.
... and one of the greatest tactic is "how something is amazing" post by "ordinary people" together with deleting "the wrong one".
I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while
rambo6 said:
I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while
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Nobody will build a perfect phone : )
!! M$ !!
Sure everyone hates M$ but what are the most widely used OS variants in the world.. Without a doubt...Windows products! Eat that Apple/Linux/whatever users
Plus like I stated, the need for physical buttons are a must, no? That must be one super touchscreen on the apple it will be the one way to navigate? Not even a scroll wheel like relatively cheap smartphones? OUCH! hope you have absolutely clean fingers no matter what that screen will be soo smudged up with nastiness!
Apple jealous of M$ tearing up the mobile market, can't stand it! hahaha I love it!! They're hardware is behind, only thing they've got going for them is the camera.
Apple ish*t specs
Technical Specifications
Screen size 3.5 inches
Screen resolution 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method Multi-touch
Operating system OS X
Storage 4GB or 8GB
GSM Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera 2.0 megapixels
Battery Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams
I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
It's easier to shrug off the iPhone, especially if you don't have the money to buy it
cutting through the grituitous bashing, as well as the hype, I have seen good and bad things.
GOOD:
No doubt it has a hardware platform powerful enough to perform at least as good as our BAs, and probably better. Yeah, it could have 3G, but it would add too much to the cost of the machine.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability. Otherwise just pick up your Nokia 1110 with its black-and-white matrix and shut up.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate. And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
THE MIXED:
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
It will probably be bad for the hobbyst crowd, which would like to code for fun for their devices, and probably won't be allowed to. Unless Apple releases some open IDE a la Carbide, but since they are already closing up the door on software availability, this possibility is remote.
I think it's more bad than good, but at least we can hope this will be a death sentence for software developemnt for this platform, and that this will actually result in more security. Not that we have many actual threats out there, but smartphones have the potential to be hacked into, become zombies for spam botnets etc. etc. When the spammers/crackers start to tap on this, we might start to see Windows Mobile get into a nightmare...
THE BAD:
It lacks 3G, it does not have direct iTunes access (you have to cradle it to sync and add stuff);
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind? OK, I don't usually swap batteries around, but I tend to buy extended batteries (my BA has one). I only this machine has GOOD battery life, this might not bite as much.
It would be good to have a GPS throwed in too... hey, let me dream!
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time. I believe there have been t-mobile onlys before, after some time they will allow everyone to buy it. Remember, it's all about PROFIT. Apple will not close their market that much. If they can sell more, they will. They are probably working first with the operator which was easier to work with, they gave more of how apple wanted to control the device and the network. And they will probably use this to scrub on other operator and say 'Ok, if you don't do it the way I like it, I won't do you the favor of selling my devices to you' (Yeah, Apple is a bit like a diva). They will try to use the Cingular-only argument to try to drive the operator into submission. It's a reversal of roles, where usually the operators dictate what they want and don't want on their devices. And maybe they can pull it off.
IT's EXPENSIVE. Apple/Cingular is really 'stretching the thong' on this one. Either Cingular is not subsidizing AT ALL (have you thought of this possibility?), or the machine is really expensive.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag. The screen is the same size of a LifeDrive, which is not anywhere near the cost of this machine. 4-8 GB flash? look at the iPod nano's price tags. ARM CPU + radios, there are plenty out there. motion/orientation sensor? Hmm, look at the Wii controls, I think I have read something about them, those things are not expensive nowadays. The only exotic stuff is the multi-touch sensor, and those things exist for quite some time, they are just not popular. and lacking stuff like 3G radio, SD slot and... a removable battery cover (sigh) helps driving down the cost.
The profit margin is fat here! yeah, there is all this 'pay for R&D blah blah', but they are going to make a few good bucks.
BOTTOM LINE:
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.
pda...of course
in primis...here in hungary every apple stuff is sold for a double or triple price as in the US, this means, that the ifoon would cost minimum 1000-1200$...that is not affordable...or, of course, it is, but the ifoon doesn't worth that much...
pro secundo...the operator lock...well...it's discussed on many forums, that it wont be easy to crack it, so if it ever would be sold here, you couldn't change operator easily, and if not at all, it sucks...
pro tertia...the multitouch...say anything, that it's better than a single stylus...but i can't imagine, that i'll use my thumbs to scroll an ebook, or play minesweeper ;]...but anyway, if the software range is limited, than it matters no...sending an sms could be easyer, maybe, because, you could type...but you should use full screen keyboard...which is annoying, and anyhow, you could take it in your hand like a psp, so you could use only thumbs, that are big...and as mentioned...you will mess the whole screen with fingerprints all the time...that suck again
the thingy has no IRDA, this way you cannot use it as a remote control for tv, or what...
and, and as mentioned above...no gps, no sd, no changeable battery...anyhow 3G is said to be installed in it, till it will be merchandised...
Brazilian Joe said:
I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
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I disagree. Sure, their PCs will get you on the net but as soon as you try to do something more complex they fall down. Their support is rubbish and they regularly delete bugs and forum posts about issues they can't be bothered fixing. Their computer hardware and QC have been slated regularly. About the best thing they have going for them is their legion of fanboi's (and astroturfers) convincing people that their computers "just work" when it's not the case.
They also threaten sites like xda-developers as a general rule. They probably have more lawyers than developers, basically a small Microsoft during it's evil phase.
About the only thing they've done right lately is the iPod, and even it has all the "all apple, all the time" idea where you can only buy music from iTunes and get it on to the device. If you try to write software so that people are free to use something else other than iTunes, they'll sue you for that.
Oh, and now they are charging you for patches and feature updates and calling it "an accounting quirk".
Apple suck, most people are just too blinkered by their dislike for Microsoft to see it.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
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Click to collapse
It's nice, but I'm not all that impressed. Sure, most of us will have seen the multitouch proof-of-concept videos last year on a full PC, but this is on a phone. There isn't all that much room for more than one active finger. And what about one-handed operation? You'd need to have it on a table for multi-touch. And what, on a mobile, can it actually be used for that's superior to any other UI component?
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability.
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It's most redeeming feature IMHO.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate.
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Nope, built of OSX and it uses iTunes. That's quite a legacy there alone.
And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
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I could not disagree more. All they've done is take a standard device and slap a pretty UI on it. We could get that via a software update on old hardware right now. In fact, we had it and they forced hanmin to remove his post via bogus legal threats. One good thing about all of this is that MS will have to rethink their UI and play catchup a little.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
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My digital camera has that, it's very useful and intuative. You see it happen once and from then on it's instinctive just to rotate it. However, on a phone when it has to send redraw events to the running applications and deal with resolution changes, I'm not convinced this is something you want switching everything you move your arm.
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
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That's fine, but IMHO if you visit the xda-developers website often, this is not the phone for you. If you visit "hello" magazine and read about Paris Hilton, maybe that's the software delivery model designed just for you.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
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Not sure, signing doesn't prevent piracy, it just prevents tampering and provides a trust mechanism. Unless they generate you an unique key-pair for every purchase which I seriously doubt.
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
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Stream via WiFi, via iTunes and your credit-card? Standard Apple practice, charge 'em where possible.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind?
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Making money. Officially when your iPod battery dies (often 1 year old), you have to buy a new iPod.
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time.
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Don't hold your breath, it's a two-year (!!) contract.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag.
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No, but the Apple logo does apparently. All of their stuff is at least 30% over market value.
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.
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Agreed. Might even get one myself, but I reckon that it'll give the other mobile platforms a kick up the butt and they'll be well ahead by then.
The subject is iphone versus BA
Nobody actually talk about BA at this thread.
Obviously, iphone wins.
Apple's real advance is draw all ppl's attention, media focus, even they build a ****.
Jobs yells, Look at our new ****!!
yoz my last post as a BA user
Heck I have cingular and i'd take a $200 BA over an $499 iphone anyday!! My last post as a BA user, I loved it, great, fast, versitile device. 3.5" display can't beat that.. widescreen at 240x320.. amazing hardware when it released. Lets seea crossbow leap to the BA.
! Long live HTC !
A friend of mine is very Iphone-minded; so from the moment he get's it, I'll have a look at this "device".
I can tell you this much: you will only be able to do with it what apple wants you to do with it - modifying, installing apps? forget it!
I can't imagine a iphone-developers.com
Hmm, there is an iSupply review estimating the BOM (hardware cost alone) to be around 250/280 for the 4/8 GB iPhones.
Even if I lived in the US, I wouldn't rush into the iPhone. i'd wait and see.
I like to see all technological advancements, and I am not a fanboy of ANY brand.
For example, while I have always preached AMD over intel since the K6, now I am recommending Core 2 Duo to anyone who asks. The performance speaks for itself. Since I acknowledged what the Centrino was doing, I kept a close eye on the Intel developments... When They announced that the Core 2 Duo would have an average 20% better performance over the Core Duo, I seriously doubted about it. I have read the technical articles, but I still was skeptic, believeing that they were trumpeting a 'best case' as if it were THE performance. But I was wrong. Core 2 Duio is really all that, and it will be interesting to see AMD catching up.
personally, I actully think AMD will pull it off, with the 'specialized cores' approach. They will embed a GPU (I believe it will be generalized and simply called a 'stream processor') in a multi-core package this year, and soon I believe we will see a Crypto core, and who knows what else. maybe AMD even ecides it's a good idea to have a FPGA as an extra core, and that would open an incredible number of possibilities.
Back to the iPhone subject:
I see the iPhone design as the antithesis of Nokia, nothing is more antagonic to the 'buttons only' approach of S60 than a touchscreen-only.
UIQ and Windows Mobile stay in-between, playing both games, but apparently losing on both. I would like to have a hands-on test drive on the iPhone, but I believe they got it right on the interface.
I really believe the software model they are trying to impose is on of iPhone's greatest risks, the other one is being locked on Cingular for too long, and those could cause its demise.
I really hope it suceeds though, because there is at least one thing it brought to the market, and I really, really hope Microsoft adds it to Photon (WM7): MultitouchScreen.
Competition is good.
well. I have read a great deal on the new i phone. My own opinion is simply that they will NOT corner any part of the mobile phone market let alone come anywhere close to the BA or HTC models of any description.
Apple are already running into stupid problems already if the BBC news here in UK is correct. Apparently the "i phone" name is already a no go thanks to a previous copyright name came from a different company. And as far as being original and up2date....apple are always very close to the mark when it comes to this. Remember last year towards Nov Dec time when LG showed up with their version of what they say as the interactive mobile phone. And how close
the apple phone is in comparison to the LG. I say no more.
OS X maybe pretty to look at, but I much prefer the adaptability and personalizing of the modern Windows Phone edition etc. Have what you want, when you want, HOW you want. AND then....carry ALL your media content including movies mtv clips cartoon....oh yes...AND music (mp3 ogg files etc)it all about (if you prefer) on you OWN memory card.
I digress...
Well, Apple is not that much of a stupid company.
They negotiated and researched before trumpeting the iPhone name.
More recently, after the 'what did they had in mind' reaction, it came up that complaints were filed both in the US and in the EU, in attempt to revoke Cisco's copyright over the iPhone brand for lack of use.
Seems they picked one of their existing products and just badged it as an iPhone, to try to keep hold of the name at the expiry date.
the productitself was released much later and is not what they showed previously, so Apple is trying to free up the name.
Well, it's a gamble, but they would't even try if there was no chance to win on trial.
It will depend on convincing the judge that Cisco was sitting on the name and not using it for too long, so long that they lost their rights over it.
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

Time for changes

Well It can sound stupid, but nowadays mobile phone are like the old macs, you get what you buy and you stay with it.
why there is no company which think like IBM did long time ago
make a phone without cpu (but a slot for it - let me choose which one to buy) without gpu (let me choose which one to buy, I know there isn't much choice, but anyway) without ram (I'll buy it myself for my needs) without operating system, I'll choose which to buy and install.
this idea is definetly will bring some good prices and interesting things
just a screen with case and motherbord
This would probably be impossible, or very very expensive. Letting the user change the CPU (SoC) means a standard socket, every manufacturer has it's own.
Second, Allowing the user to create a phone would be very hard, as you need some way of assembling it without causing any damage, no company will give warranity for such a device.
Also, you can't just put any OS you want. Though here at XDA there are those capable of it, you need a bootloader, and it will be just to much work for a single piece of hardware.
this might be possible on tablets, which are bigger, but also there, it's far too complicated.
Also, can you buy a notebook without a CPU and all the rest? Full hardware customization is only available in desktop computers.
But doing such a thing would be absulutely AWESOME
astar26 said:
This would probably be impossible, or very very expensive. Letting the user change the CPU (SoC) means a standard socket, every manufacturer has it's own.
Second, Allowing the user to create a phone would be very hard, as you need some way of assembling it without causing any damage, no company will give warranity for such a device.
Also, you can't just put any OS you want. Though here at XDA there are those capable of it, you need a bootloader, and it will be just to much work for a single piece of hardware.
this might be possible on tablets, which are bigger, but also there, it's far too complicated.
Also, can you buy a notebook without a CPU and all the rest? Full hardware customization is only available in desktop computers.
But doing such a thing would be absulutely AWESOME
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares about the warranty........ I have been building my own computers since 1989 and I have never had a single problem doing it. And I also think this would be an AWESOME idea as well........... but I want it with a 5" screen (kinda blind from age)
mrfarnhigh said:
Well It can sound stupid, but nowadays mobile phone are like the old macs, you get what you buy and you stay with it.
why there is no company which think like IBM did long time ago
make a phone without cpu (but a slot for it - let me choose which one to buy) without gpu (let me choose which one to buy, I know there isn't much choice, but anyway) without ram (I'll buy it myself for my needs) without operating system, I'll choose which to buy and install.
this idea is definetly will bring some good prices and interesting things
just a screen with case and motherbord
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A novel idea, and most certainly intriguing as a thought exercise, but nearly impossible as a practical exercise.
Mostly because you'll need to lug a brick around the size of an obese kid's lunchbox.
And what percentage of the mobile market would actually want to do this? lol
I really cant see anybody putting the time, effort and most importantly, money, into making this possible.
Closest I've ever found to this would be synapse http://synapse-phones.com/order.php
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App
Tyrian89 said:
Closest I've ever found to this would be synapse http://synapse-phones.com/order.php
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
looks sweet, but not upgradeable after purchase (at least not without sending back for upgrading).
It's sort of a step in the right direction though.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App
I'd rather have phones release where I can choose the OS without a ton of hassle. Then I can play with all the various phone OS's.
I'd really like to see virtualization like VMWare come to the phone. Then we could try newer, older, different, PhoneOS's without having to reflash anything.
-J
astar26 said:
This would probably be impossible, imposible is only for those who don't try/want!
or very very expensive. It will bring a lot more marketing, PC are cheaper than Mac.
Letting the user change the CPU (SoC) means a standard socket, every manufacturer has it's own. they will make standtarts.
Second, Allowing the user to create a phone would be very hard,You can go to computer shop and buy full build desktop, with the parts you ordered
as you need some way of assembling it without causing any damage, no company will give warranity for such a device. If you buy intel's, amd's cpu and put it in your computer the warrnty isn't ending.
Also, you can't just put any OS you want.on a pc you can install anything from windows, linux to mac (hack) Though here at XDA there are those capable of it, you need a bootloader, and it will be just to much work for a single piece of hardware. some shops will have what to do and they will have a job to do rather then just +300$ to each phone
this might be possible on tablets, which are bigger, but also there, it's far too complicated.simcards aren't complicated? I guess it would be the same
Also, can you buy a notebook without a CPU and all the rest? Full hardware customization is only available in desktop computers.the answer is yes, you can buy your same laptop model from 1.8ghz up to 3.0ghz, but it will be same buttons, same screen, same motherboard. you can take the ram out and upgrade it anytime you want. (and its not that hard)
But doing such a thing would be absulutely AWESOMEI would agree with you on that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
conantroutman said:
And what percentage of the mobile market would actually want to do this? lol same as pcs vs mac
I really cant see anybody putting the time, effort and most importantly, money, into making this possible.I guess it would be much cheaper than today
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it comes to market it will only lower prices on phones
mrfarnhigh said:
When it comes to market it will only lower prices on phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got some points there, but when I mean warranity on PCs, I mean prebuilded PCs, such as Dells etc. You can always build your own (I did it a few times). but with a phone, the cmponents are much much smaller.
I know you can install all OSes on a computer, but there must be a bootloader to be able to boot all of them.
Once there will be a device like that, I'm surely going to buy it.

Who knows about video cards?

My computer is a couple years old so I'm trying to upgrade it to give it a new breath of fresh air. I'm really confused with all this pcI express 2.0, 2. 1, x 16 ... what does this mean? My motherboard is an MS-7525. it says it supports pci express x 16? What is compatible? Thanks guys
Peace and Love
Not based on any other specs of your computer (such as your PSU), It simply means you have a MB compatible with PCI-E x16 cards which are generally today's standard cards for computing. However, video cards typically require more juice than the stock PC has, So you would probably need to upgrade that.
ArtificialMusik said:
Not based on any other specs of your computer (such as your PSU), It simply means you have a MB compatible with PCI-E x16 cards which are generally today's standard cards for computing. However, video cards typically require more juice than the stock PC has, So you would probably need to upgrade that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's no problem I'm willing to buy a new psu, so any card is conptabile? I just want a decent one with a good price what's with all the 2. 1 and 3. 0 stuff is it supported?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
LoveisPeace2012 said:
My computer is a couple years old so I'm trying to upgrade it to give it a new breath of fresh air. I'm really confused with all this pcI express 2.0, 2. 1, x 16 ... what does this mean? My motherboard is an MS-7525. it says it supports pci express x 16? What is compatible? Thanks guys
Peace and Love
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to be heavy into custom PCs 3 to 4 years ago and when PCI Express came out, 16x was the best bus. But I know nothing these days. But here's some good places to start learning:
http://forums.guru3d.com/
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/
http://forums.overclockersclub.com/
MartyLK said:
I used to be heavy into custom PCs 3 to 4 years ago and when PCI Express came out, 16x was the best bus. But I know nothing these days. But here's some good places to start learning:
http://forums.guru3d.com/
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/
http://forums.overclockersclub.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks I will take a look
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
LoveisPeace2012 said:
That's no problem I'm willing to buy a new psu, so any card is conptabile? I just want a decent one with a good price what's with all the 2. 1 and 3. 0 stuff is it supported?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2.1 Is just a recent update. Nothing too different from 2.0 (from what i understand)
Most NVidia cards are 2.0. But as I have implied previously, It heavily relies the PSU from my understanding. Make sure that you have something that can fit and work out for you.
ArtificialMusik said:
2.1 Is just a recent update. Nothing too different from 2.0 (from what i understand)
Most NVidia cards are 2.0. But as I have implied previously, It heavily relies the PSU from my understanding. Make sure that you have something that can fit and work out for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot bro, I will buy a new psu to make sure it can handle it
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
LoveisPeace2012 said:
Thanks a lot bro, I will buy a new psu to make sure it can handle it
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a good place to learn about PSUs and which ones are best...at least it used to be 3 or 4 years ago.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/index.php?
.
Moved to proper section, please read the rules before posting
If you have a small case, make sure you measure the space you have available and check that against the card dimensions. Some of the newer ones are behemoths! Check your PSU rating. If it's 600W+ you easily have enough juice to power any single GPU card on the market.
What resolution do you play at and what CPU do you currently have? It'd be pointless adding a GTX 580 to a system running a dual-core at anything less than 3.0Ghz, and ideally you'd want a quad-core running that speed to get the best from the top of the line gfx cards. Equally, if you play at 720 res, a top card would be overkill. Basically balance is what you want.
Assuming your PC is medium spec i would suggest a GTX560 TI for medium res, or GTX570 if you play at 1680x1050 or above.
Other stuff to consider.
Courtesy of the nice people at HP your motherboard looks like this:-
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01386897&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en
The graphics slot is the large black one above the HP logo.
A decent graphics card, and its resident cooler, will probably obscure both the small PCI express slots below it, and if there is anything in the bottom standard PCI slot, that may obscure the air intake for the GPU cooler fan. Anything in these slots?
Graphics Cards need their own six, (later eight) pin PCI power sockets, (some of the older amp hungry cards needed two six pin sockets!). As mentioned above your power supply needs to able to supply this amount of grunt.
What sort of case does this all fit in? If it is a HP slimline case, you may struggle trying to shoehorn all this in the case, as well as the fact that slimline cases tend to have bespoke power supplies.
It usually worth doing a fair bit of groundwork first, before parting with your hard earned moolah. It can sometimes end up as a complete rebuild to get it all to work properly. Been there, done it, got the T-Shirt.
Good luck!
stephj said:
Other stuff to consider.
Courtesy of the nice people at HP your motherboard looks like this:-
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01386897&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en
The graphics slot is the large black one above the HP logo.
A decent graphics card, and its resident cooler, will probably obscure both the small PCI express slots below it, and if there is anything in the bottom standard PCI slot, that may obscure the air intake for the GPU cooler fan. Anything in these slots?
Graphics Cards need their own six, (later eight) pin PCI power sockets, (some of the older amp hungry cards needed two six pin sockets!). As mentioned above your power supply needs to able to supply this amount of grunt.
What sort of case does this all fit in? If it is a HP slimline case, you may struggle trying to shoehorn all this in the case, as well as the fact that slimline cases tend to have bespoke power supplies.
It usually worth doing a fair bit of groundwork first, before parting with your hard earned moolah. It can sometimes end up as a complete rebuild to get it all to work properly. Been there, done it, got the T-Shirt.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the advice I am going to take it, first I am going to buy a new case its the Fractal Core 1000 series. It's a micro atx mini tower, I was looking at power supplies, if I have a micro atx motherboard does that mean I need a micro atx psu?
ok my post vreww
0S0 said:
ok my post vreww
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pass that blunt bro
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
LoveisPeace2012 said:
Pass that blunt bro
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... talking from experience here, so bear with me.
1. New GPUs are hot. I mean they suck the juice outta you. I mean, they run at high temperatures and require a high wattage PSU. That being said, usually they will have six/eight pin, sometimes double(!) power connectors. My 6950 is running two six-pin connectors. Also, almost all PCI-E ports are x16, and I'm sure the above posters have done their legwork for you. Since you're looking at a single card solution, getting something top-of-the-line, or thereabouts will do. NVIDIA/AMD doesn't matter, just get the BIGGEST, FATTEST, FASTEST (first two doesn't really jive with the last, right) card you can afford. This saves money, and gives you more bang for your buckeroos. They're BIG too. The size of my 6950 is drawn in the red box.
2. Smart move on getting a new case. Refer to no.1 for a good reason why I'm saying this. Here's a bonus tip; try getting it for FREE. Recycling centres, friends, even random custom PC shops might have them. check around your area. #1 important criteria for a PC-case = size. Bigger is better, and if it's the size of your room, huzzah! DISCLAIMER: my parents own a shop. I snatch free screwdrivers, screws, the occasional case (when mine get too dusty), cardboard, plastic and duct tape (explain later) and internets (actually, my own connection is faster :-|).
3. Air-flow + cooling. Almost split this to two different topics, but WTH. The are drawn in lime green is the size of a decent after-market cooler for your CPU. Depending on over-clockability, a CM Hyper 212 Plus (really cheap, like >USD20 cheap) will give you about 20%+ in temperature leeway. Good for ekking out just a bit more. WARNING: check our your processor slot first to ensure compatibility. Now, on to cooling. Notice the red and blue arrows? With the CM H212+, your airflow will change to that (you can do it the other way around, but you'll melt the PCB when playing Crysis). Oh, blue is cool air, red is hot air, but I guess that's intuitive enough, right? While it will seem idiotically retardedly stupidly imbecilic moronic dumb to let one component's hot air flow into another component's cool air intake, you should notice that purplish (borderline gay, but who am I to judge how your PC does things) block. That is your custom cooling solution, aka using plastic/cardboard + duct tape to change the airflow. Be creative, and just remember that hot air flows upwards, while being mindful of cables.
4. PSUs. Here is where $#[email protected]+ goes down. No.1 advice? Don't skimp. Components might sound cheap, but they are cheap for a reason. To cater to my 6950, I bent over and bought a 650W 80+ silver PSU. From your posts above, I surmise you understand about wattage, but you need to learn about the 80+ certification thing. It just means that when you're PC is running low loads, only 20% of the certified power draw is being used at any time. Good for energy efficiency because I leave my PC on 24-hours.
5. CPUs. @DirkGently pointed out that you shouldn't get an über-powerful (sorry for the ümlauts) GPU without getting an über-powerful (I'd apologize again, but I'm repeating myself) CPU. So... get one? NO! Over-clock that [email protected]+c#! (Note that the last exclamation mark is a mark of exclamation) My Phenom II x4 945 is showing its age, but my-oh-my it's ageing more gracefully than Lindsay Lohan.
Before I end, there's a few things I need to comment on; first being the lack of info from your side regarding the "proper" use of your PC. Specifics like, gaming at what resolutions with what usual effects on, or just simply going on Farmville to further your goals of world domination via virtual agriculture should suffice. We do not wish to learn about your [email protected]! gaming titles. Also, listing the exact and entire specs of your prior PC will go a long way towards organizing a proper refresher on your PC.
That should be about it, and thanks for indulging in my brief, profanity-laden, typing spree. Have a good day, and if this REALLY kicks off (I'll know when I get a thank or two here) I might post pretty pictures of how my monstrosity looks like.

Cool concept, well I think so anyway.

There are many devices out there ranging from low to high-end.
Even though there's a huge selection, wouldn't it be nice to make a phone which you want?
I was just day dreamming and thought about custom phone building.
It would be like a PC where parts can be selected by you, such as:
Processor
Camera resolution and optics
Display size
Battery capacity
GSM or CDMA
Android version
Outer design (By using current devices of course, designing it by scratch would take to long and cost to much)
Decals (such as name of the phone on the back)
Etc.
Wouldn't it be cool if you can go on a major manufacturers website, build your phone to your specifications, get a quote, and place your order? I doubt this will ever happen but I'm a dreamer.
Any thoughts?
KayxGee1 said:
There are many devices out there ranging from low to high-end.
Even though there's a huge selection, wouldn't it be nice to make a phone which you want?
I was just day dreamming and thought about custom phone building.
It would be like a PC where parts can be selected by you, such as:
Processor
Camera resolution and optics
Display size
Battery capacity
GSM or CDMA
Android version
Outer design (By using current devices of course, designing it by scratch would take to long and cost to much)
Decals (such as name of the phone on the back)
Etc.
Wouldn't it be cool if you can go on a major manufacturers website, build your phone to your specifications, get a quote, and place your order? I doubt this will ever happen but I'm a dreamer.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i like it i think it would be awesome
Sounds like dell, but I don't think android is there just yet, but I can see the huge potential.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
KayxGee1 said:
There are many devices out there ranging from low to high-end.
Even though there's a huge selection, wouldn't it be nice to make a phone which you want?
I was just day dreamming and thought about custom phone building.
It would be like a PC where parts can be selected by you, such as:
Processor
Camera resolution and optics
Display size
Battery capacity
GSM or CDMA
Android version
Outer design (By using current devices of course, designing it by scratch would take to long and cost to much)
Decals (such as name of the phone on the back)
Etc.
Wouldn't it be cool if you can go on a major manufacturers website, build your phone to your specifications, get a quote, and place your order? I doubt this will ever happen but I'm a dreamer.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few select Chinese companies can and will do this for you.
I think it's cool too. And furthermore believe we will live to see it happen one day.
I think it could happen some day. However, I wished the same thing for notebooks, and that didn't quite happen yet - seems manufacturers like the power to say 'I think you want this' and make products. Not a single laptop out right now meets all my specifications, and the same goes for phones, but I still needed to get one, oh well...
Hrm.. I can see it now... the Alienware NotaNexus 9000
Get your SLI Nvidia Tegra Chipset with 2 Gigs of RAM and a Terrabyte Raided Super Air Cooled Titanium AMOLED 7" screen phone. With External Battery!

How to check voltage level at a resistor?

I have a Samsung Galaxy S7 (SM-G930F) that appears to be dead. I found the service manual online and I'm now trying to follow the troubleshooting flowchart for power issues. I am stuck at the third step (already), where it tells me to check the voltage level at a resistor.
"Check the voltage level at R7027 while pressing power key. Is the voltage high?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So my first question is, how do you check voltage at a resistor in circuit without shortening something out? Ground to either side of the resistor? Multimeter in voltage metering mode?
Second question, what is a "high" voltage? How high is high? High as in digital circuit, like one (high) vs. zero (low)?
Two possible answers are given for this question in the flowchart. One is "No" and the other is "Abnormal". So my third question is, what does "abnormal" voltage look like?
Use a good set of probes and don't shake
Clip one to the ground plane so you only need to hold one probe instead of two.
Abnormal is under 2 VDC... I think.
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No worries, it all went well. Thanks for the tip about ground plane! I didn't find a plane, but I did manage to land on the ground. (I think got that in-joke right.)
I actually tried using both test leads directly on the resistor and while it did give me a reading, it also started to smell funny after a while. It also read something like 0.44 V. But after putting the negative lead on the metal shield, and positive on either side of the resistor, I got a very different reading. I got something like 3.7 V. Now that I understand the expectation, I know this is normal value. Because it's just the voltage from the battery which is rated 3.85 V nominal voltage. It's a bit discharged but it's OK (Samsung original replacement battery).
I do wish they had put more effort into writing these "service manual" things that they keep so secretive. They got me wondering what they mean by "abnormal" voltage. I admit do being a complete noob when it comes to repairing phones and electronics in general, but they could have used proper English and I would have understood (even though it's not my first language either). Now I understand this "abnormal" to mean "way above 3.8 V or way below 3.8 V". I get the impression they just slapped together some images and text, and they could not even spell things right or draw the little boxes in the flowchart with pixel perfect attention to detail. I do get it though. Why bother when no one else is supposed to even look at this except Samsung authorized service technicians?
Why below 2 V? How do you figure it's TTL and not RTL or DTL? Full disclosure: I have no understanding of what either of these things mean. I just looked it up on Wikipedia. I do know it has to do with the way electronic circuits are designed, it's engineering jargon. TTL stands for Transistor-Transistor Logic.
Pretty sure it's TTL protocol.
You really don't want to muck with most of everything on the mobo. Keep the phone in a good case at all times and keep it away from water. 99% of the time it's easier to replace a defective assembly rather than try to fix it.
Protocol? As in data transmission protocol, like USB? Can you elaborate please? I am only familiar with the term "TTL" in the context of UART interfaces, where you use some kind of USB or RS232 to TTL adapter in order to communicate with defective devices and things of that nature. I have used an adapter like that many years ago to clear a firmware error in a Seagate disk for example so I could recover the data.
I am in a similar situation this time. This phone is not powering on and I need to recover my data. It died suddenly while it was charging. What do you suggest I do to extract the data? I don't care about MOBO or assembly, I just want my data back. But I have no experience with phone repairs, and I have learned that the UFS storage chip is encrypted too. So I can't just pull of the storage chip and put it in a chip reader, do a data dump and then take it from there. I need to repair this board to get to my data. Or is there an alternative?
Protocol; voltage specs for different states.
A data recovery specialist may be able to retrieve the data. For you as it it is now, no boot, no data.
Not backing the data up redundantly was a big no-no.
As Dirty Harry said: "A lot of things can happen to an Android...".
I may not get it to boot in the end and recover the data, but neither will IBAS Ontrack. I doubt they even know what's involved in recovering data from such devices. They are probably still doing HDD data recoveries. Those guys don't even know how to answer the phone properly when a customer calls in. I called in three times and spoke to some weirdo at a switchboard, telling me that the people I need to talk to are busy. But they are always busy! And each time they give you this switchboard operator. They also don't call you back either when they promise to get back to you and you leave your phone number. I haven't called Drive Savers yet. I may try that some day, just to compare how they treat incoming calls for help. That's my experience with these data recovery specialists thus far (they don't exist!).
I agree, I should have had a fresh backup of the phone or at least a backup of the most important files. Should have, could have. That's not going to help me with what happened in the past. I made a mistake, and I didn't think my smartest phone of all smartphones would die so soon. Expiration date on these things seems to be one to two years, which is insane! So we keep buying and trashing them and creating e-waste. No one knows how to make make things or fix things, they only know how to buy and consume. We only have our theories and we know how to sell fog (ideas). All manufacturing is still done in China (they are the ones with the tools and the brains). I don't think it's right on any level. But here we are. A simple thing like changing the battery on these devices is intentionally made impossible.
It's not that I don't want a specialist to have a look at this and have my money. It's that there are none around, and those that are and do this type of job, they don't want it. They only want easy and quick jobs for big bucks. I had two of these phones sent to two different microelectronics repair shops, they both sent them back, on both occasions, saying it's a dead ROM chip. I don't believe them. How could I? The last guy didn't even send me back the 12 screws that I sent to him in a zip back along with the phone. Only because I told him to send it back disassembled, after he asked me. He asked if I wanted disassembled or assembled. Where assembled is twice the price. Why would I want it assembled? I already had disassembled it myself. Not fully, I just took the back cover off and tried putting in a brand new battery. I know how to assemble and glue it back together myself. He didn't tell me he would omit the screws if I opted to have it send back disassembled. It's a complete bull**** of repair shop, and he has like 40 thousands subscribers on YouTube. None of these guys will show you their failures. They only show their success to promote themselves. In my opinion, failure is where true learning takes place.
Anyway. I will take my chances and try to repair it myself. It's a costly experiment, and it's going to take time, but I am learning a lot in the process, and little by little I am actually putting together my own little microelectronics repair lab at home. I even got myself a thermal camera so I can inspect and locate overheating components. Hot air station and microscope is next. After that I may even start my own business and do phone repairs at a level that's simply not offered where I live.
There are recovery specialists that go as far as pulling the SOC to attempt to recover data. No small or easy task.
Otherwise if you can't get that mobo to run I would write the data off... and save myself a lot of time and trouble for nothing.
I'm stuck in a similar situation with my GT-i9060 (Galaxy Grand Neo) where I could care less about the board or phone and just want my data recovered.
This would be my last-resort attempt to repair but you could try it out maybe. I am attempting to figure out what's wrong with the mobo first and try to get that thing started.
Here's my post. Any inputs would be helpful.
Rizzi87 said:
I'm stuck in a similar situation with my GT-i9060 (Galaxy Grand Neo) where I could care less about the board or phone and just want my data recovered.
This would be my last-resort attempt to repair but you could try it out maybe. I am attempting to figure out what's wrong with the mobo first and try to get that thing started.
Here's my post. Any inputs would be helpful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find. Last resort time... you see what a pain it is. Very involved and no guarantees.
Is the sim card still intact; are your contacts stored on it?
blackhawk said:
Nice find. Last resort time... you see what a pain it is. Very involved and no guarantees.
Is the sim card still intact; are your contacts stored on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply.
The SIM is still intact but no, my contacts aren't saved on it. My Whatsapp backup is on there too and yes, I was ignorant enough to not have backed it up
As I mentioned, if I try to switch it on using the battery or even plug the charger, certain areas of the mobo get hot which points out to some component being shorted (according to my limited knowledge)
I'm trying to test each component using the schematic diagrams because the repair flowchart mentions some equipment that I don't have access to. Gonna pop open the emi shields today so I can test those components too.
I also have a G930F with a bad display (I think) but that will have to wait
You can't repair a mobile with just a flow chart. You need to be proffessional and also need some basic tools like dc power supply. Mobile pcb's most DC bus lines will normally shows below 30ohms resistance.
Connect phone to pc with charged battery and check phone's SOC detects or not, if detects probably emmc/bootloader failure.
Rizzi87 said:
Thanks for the reply.
The SIM is still intact but no, my contacts aren't saved on it. My Whatsapp backup is on there too and yes, I was ignorant enough to not have backed it up
As I mentioned, if I try to switch it on using the battery or even plug the charger, certain areas of the mobo get hot which points out to some component being shorted (according to my limited knowledge)
I'm trying to test each component using the schematic diagrams because the repair flowchart mentions some equipment that I don't have access to. Gonna pop open the emi shields today so I can test those components too.
I also have a G930F with a bad display (I think) but that will have to wait
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome and welcome to XDA
That link was an interesting read.
If you really need the data just stop now and send it in. If you have already or do damage the memory chipset it will be game over. One price quote I heard was $800 from another member here. Can't recall if they had to hot air the memory chip off or not.
Many people have no idea the trouble not backing up critical data causes or how fragile digital data can be. I have at least a dozen backup drives, many are redundant copies. No such thing as too much.
@blackhawk Yeah, I will probably head over to some recovery specialists and then experiment with getting the board to work again.
@R7027 - If you have the service manual for the G930F, can you check if it lists the main parts and exploded view for the phone?
blackhawk said:
There are recovery specialists that go as far as pulling the SOC to attempt to recover data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know. That's a chip-off procedure. But that doesn't work on devices running Android 6 and above because of hardware based encryption of storage chips. This is enforced by Google. Manufacturers must comply with Google's demands if they want to receive Android certification.
Rizzi87 said:
I'm stuck in a similar situation with my GT-i9060 (Galaxy Grand Neo) where I could care less about the board or phone and just want my data recovered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry to hear. I know the feeling.
Rizzi87 said:
This would be my last-resort attempt to repair but you could try it out maybe. I am attempting to figure out what's wrong with the mobo first and try to get that thing started.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm familiar with FlashFixers. I have seen the video version of the article you linked to, seen their website and read most of the information there.
For example, this information:
"Chip-off data recovery is only an option for Android OS 2.3-5.1."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is why they stopped doing that after Galaxy S6, because Galaxy S7 came with Android 6.
I also know what software they're using, what adapters, what readers, etc. So I can tell you what's possible and what's not. Your phone shipped with Android 4.2 and was upgradeable to 4.4.4. Therefore, your phone can undergo a chip-off procedure. GSM Arena is source number one for mobile phone specs. Head over there and check it out. Since this is an older phone model and spec data submitters (users) at GSM Arnea didn't pay much attention to type of internal storage, there is no info on the type of internal memory. But I believe it's eMMC. I know for a fact that Samsung switched from eMMC to eUFS when they released Galaxy S6. The relevance here is that the chip reader you use needs to support eMMC, and virtually every one of them supports eMMC. Only a few readers support eUFS, the new standard that no one in phone repair community cares much for when they can't do chip-off procedures on anything running Android 6 or above, due to Google's enforcement of hardware based encryption.
So if you turn your phone in to FlashFixers, or anyone else with the same equipment, skill and know-how, they should be able to dump, read and recover all your data from the chip. They can even write the whole lot back to a new chip and put it back on a donor board and install it into the phone frame, and deliver a working phone with all the data on it.
But as for me, I'm not so lucky. It doesn't work on Galaxy S7 because of Android 6. Mine was running Android 8 when it died, but it shipped with Android 6 and that's reason enough not to try it, as it is encrypted, for sure. They need to either repair the original board, or transplant the CPU/SOC and ROM/UFS to a donor board. This is true for all the newer phones. It's a new era.
Rizzi87 said:
The SIM is still intact but no, my contacts aren't saved on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are they stored on the internal memory of the phone? Thankfully I have the master copy of all my contacts, some 250 of them, all well documented and manually edited. I decided to switch to Google for storing all my contacts about 10 years ago, and I have not looked back since.
Rizzi87 said:
As I mentioned, if I try to switch it on using the battery or even plug the charger, certain areas of the mobo get hot which points out to some component being shorted (according to my limited knowledge)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good indication of a short. Problem is in knowing your reference points. How much is too much? Similar to voltage, how high temperature is too high? How low temperature is too low? If you don't have a reference, it doesn't tell you much. Unless it's in the extreme. Extremely low, or extremely high. Reference point for that might be if you get a burn mark if you touch it or a frost bite. But in general, abnormal temperature is a good indication of a short circuit. If you can rule out overheating.
Rizzi87 said:
I'm trying to test each component using the schematic diagrams because the repair flowchart mentions some equipment that I don't have access to. Gonna pop open the emi shields today so I can test those components too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What equipment is that? What components have you tested if you have not removed the shields yet?
EMI shields? Is that what those things are called? I hate those. They are troublesome to remove. Some of them have a top cover that can be lifted and put back on, others don't. I knocked off a tiny capacitor on one of my test boards while removing the shield with pliers (expensive precision pliers for electronics by Knipex, "Made in Germany"). That board took a turn for the worse because of it. But I have saved the tiny capacitor. Good thing is I saw it and didn't digest it or something, it's almost invisible, it's like 1 mm x 0.5 mm.
Rizzi87 said:
I also have a G930F with a bad display (I think) but that will have to wait
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it have power? The first thing you should get in terms of equipment is a USB power meter.
engage4 said:
Mobile pcb's most DC bus lines will normally shows below 30ohms resistance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does that mean? Can you re-phrase that please?
engage4 said:
Connect phone to pc with charged battery and check phone's SOC detects or not, if detects probably emmc/bootloader failure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check if phone detects PC? Not if PC detects phone? I don't understand this. Assuming PC is working and phone is not working, then how could phone detect the PC? Where do you even begin to look if you don't have anything on display (of the phone)?
blackhawk said:
One price quote I heard was $800 from another member here. Can't recall if they had to hot air the memory chip off or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think iPad Rehab takes like $999. You can also check the FlashFixers website. They have published their prices on there.
"Data recovery service of photos and videos from Android phones starts at $399 for Android OS 2.3-5.1, and $499 for Android OS 6-10, and $599 for Android OS 11 and newer."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For Android 4, they take $499 and for Android 6 or newer, they take $599. They have more on their Android Phone Data Recovery Service page.
Rizzi87 said:
Yeah, I will probably head over to some recovery specialists and then experiment with getting the board to work again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't rush to send it in to a "specialist". I guess it doesn't matter much in your case, since your phone runs on Android 4 and any data recovery/microelectronics "specialist" should be able to do the job. But in general, and especially in case of Android 6 and above, I suggest you try to find someone who knows how to do repairs, first and foremost. Not data recovery.
In the past, anyone with the right equipment, steady hands, and good mental or cognitive functions used to be able to do data recoveries in a chip-off procedure. That's until Android 6 happened. After that, they were all faced with a decision: go out of business or learn how to do actual repairs. I have no insider information on this, but I can read between the lines and I can think. I suspect that Android 6 was a big blow to this type of businesses. Some of the old timers went on to do board swaps instead. That's the new default procedure for anything newer than Android 6 where data recovery is the priority. Board swaps essentially replaced chip-off procedures, starting from Android 6.
There is another guy on YouTube that used to do data recovery on Android devices. He no longer does that, not if your device runs on Android 6 or newer. He specifically states that on his website. He's from Canada if I recall correctly. I think he mostly does data recovery on USB flash drives and HDDs.
Apparently, FlashFixers offer data recovery on Android 6 and above. That's a good indication actually of a good service. They charge more for it, of course, but rightfully so. Because the name of the game is no longer "take the chip off, dump the data, mount it, read it, copy or upload and ask for payment". Now they have to do proper diagnostics and troubleshooting, repair the original board, or do a board swap and risk damaging the chips.
Board repair is really the territory of guys like Louis Rossmann. Most of the other guys will just do a board swap and hope for the best. But even that is a tall order. You can easily damage a chip in the process. I looked at my Samsung Exynos chip and it's like 1 mm thin, and it sits on top of a 1 mm thin RAM chip. I don't really want to mess with that if I want to preserve the data. So to increase my chances of recovering data I would leave it to someone else. Or! Skill up! I would need to practice on less important phones first.
To tell you the truth I have already ruined two SM-G930F boards. Not beyond repair, but I made them worse. I knocking off a tiny capacitor on one of them, and I ruined the connectors on the other one with what turned out to be fake Kapton tape that didn't stand the heat (I didn't know people made fake Kapton tapes and I didn't test my tape first). Both boards were already having the same issue as my main SM-G930F board. I now have 4 boards, 3 of which are not working. I purchased a fully functional SM-G930F that I plan on taking apart just to learn more about how it works when it's normal. In medicine, you study anatomy first, then physiology, and then pathology. It's same thing here.
All of this is very involved, I'm aware of it. It's not for the faint of heart or for people without stamina to continue when it gets difficult. I have the curiosity, drive and energy to pursue this. Little by little, I'm improving every day. I'm actually thinking about going for an electronics engineering degree. I have always been interested in electronics. I ended up working as an electrician instead, and then IT technician. I don't need to tell you my life's story, I'm just saying that there is more than one reason why I am pursuing this path.
Rizzi87 said:
If you have the service manual for the G930F, can you check if it lists the main parts and exploded view for the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is one or two pages dedicated to listing only the components. Not sure if that's what you mean. A parts list? There is no exploded view, but there is a picture of the phone on one or two of the pages, with everything marked up for overview (anatomy). Then there is also board views, front and back, and also each side of the the sub-board (I think it's called). I don't know if I'm allowed to post it here? But you can find it online. What would you like to know from it? I can check it and get back to you.
Forget "TTL" and 5V. There is nothing on your board that is at that level.
Sometimes signals that are designed for external things run at 3.3V, but they usually use a converter.
An actual SD card (if it's from the stone age) uses 3.3V levels.
Normally the system will just say, "Can we just talk at 1.8V levels?" And they do.
Most processors of the last decade work at 1.8V or less.
If a signal comes right out of the processor it will be at that level.
For instance, my Onyx Poke3 has UART running on 1.8V levels.
So, back to your power button. That's internal. It connect directly to a GPIO on the SOC.
That means the voltage levels are probably 0V to 1.8V.
I'd guess that "R7027" is a pull-down resistor to ground.
That means the power switch is connected to 1.8V and it pulls the input on the SoC up.
(Many other things tend to have a switch ground things and they use a pull-up resistor to 1.8V)
Did you find the test point for the power switch? Did you see what happens when you push it?
It should go to 1.8V (obviously).
Renate said:
Forget "TTL" and 5V. There is nothing on your board that is at that level.
Sometimes signals that are designed for external things run at 3.3V, but they usually use a converter.
An actual SD card (if it's from the stone age) uses 3.3V levels.
Normally the system will just say, "Can we just talk at 1.8V levels?" And they do.
Most processors of the last decade work at 1.8V or less.
If a signal comes right out of the processor it will be at that level.
For instance, my Onyx Poke3 has UART running on 1.8V levels.
So, back to your power button. That's internal. It connect directly to a GPIO on the SOC.
That means the voltage levels are probably 0V to 1.8V.
I'd guess that "R7027" is a pull-down resistor to ground.
That means the power switch is connected to 1.8V and it pulls the input on the SoC up.
(Many other things tend to have a switch ground things and they use a pull-up resistor to 1.8V)
Did you find the test point for the power switch? Did you see what happens when you push it?
It should go to 1.8V (obviously).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the name of that protocol? The low/high threshold ranges for 1.8VDC?
CMOS or LVCMOS
Earlier logic families didn't generally go rail-to-rail, i.e. the full range of the power supply.
Since CMOS (complementary metal oxide semiconductors) the logic swings from the negative power supply (usually zero) to the positive power supply.
Over the years the voltage has gotten lower to reduce the power needed to swing the parasitic capacitances.
Your desktop probably runs at less than 1V
There is 5V on your cell phone motherboard, for the USB power in and the USB power out when powering peripherals.
Even then the actual logic on the data lines only swings from 0 to 3.3V (in USB2 low and full speed).
In USB2 high speed, it's 0.4V
Renate said:
Sometimes signals that are designed for external things run at 3.3V, but they usually use a converter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by external?
Renate said:
Normally the system will just say, "Can we just talk at 1.8V levels?" And they do.
Most processors of the last decade work at 1.8V or less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By system you mean the processor? That's assuming the signal is coming out of the processor and not going into the processor?
Renate said:
Normally the system will just say, "Can we just talk at 1.8V levels?" And they do.
Most processors of the last decade work at 1.8V or less.
If a signal comes right out of the processor it will be at that level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So by "system" you mean the processor? That's assuming the signal is coming out of the processor and not going into the processor?
Renate said:
An actual SD card (if it's from the stone age) uses 3.3V levels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So this would be pulled down to 1.8 V if it's going into the processor? And if it's below 1.8 V it may need to be pulled up if it's going into the processor? In other words, a processor simply talks at 1.8 V? Unless it's overvoltaged to 2.0 V or even up to 2.2 V for added headroom for overclocking (and shorter life span). I'm referring to PC processors (x86).
Renate said:
So, back to your power button. That's internal. It connect directly to a GPIO on the SOC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does internal mean here? I recognize the acronym GPIO from my Arduino experiments. That's General Purpose Input and Output. I didn't know ARM SOCs have that too. I thought they had purpose built ins and outs, not generalized/universal varieties. You can tell how little I know, right?!
Renate said:
That means the voltage levels are probably 0V to 1.8V.
I'd guess that "R7027" is a pull-down resistor to ground.
That means the power switch is connected to 1.8V and it pulls the input on the SoC up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure we're on the same page here.
The chipset is Exynos 8890 Octa (14 nm). The CPU of which is an 8 core (4x2.3 GHz Mongoose & 4x1.6 GHz Cortex-A53) and the GPU is Mali-T880 MP12.
Mongoose 1 or M1 for short is an ARM microarchitecture designed by Samsung and their first in-house design according to WikiChip. Exynox 8890 features one "big" core cluster of 4 of these and an additional "littl" core cluster of Cortex-A53. Interestingly, "big" and "little" qualify as technical terms. Very technical! LOL. For someone who can't tell size. Anyway! I could not find any specifics on M1, but if the "Juno ARM Development Platform SoC Technical Overview r2p0" document is anything to go by, the "core supply to the quad core Cortex-A53 cluster" is "0.8-1.0V". I believe the "Juno" is a device people in the know (and in need) use to develop their own electronic products based on ARM processors.
I will not pretend like I know all of this. I am just a good researcher and a decent google-fu practitioner. On the grand scheme of things, I still fail to see the relevance of this to my question of what the voltage should be level should be at that resistor.
Renate said:
Did you find the test point for the power switch? Did you see what happens when you push it?
It should go to 1.8V (obviously).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by test point? If you mean what end of the resistor I put the positive lead on, then no. Such information is not given in the service manual and I don't have the board view software needed to go in depth on that. But either side will give a similar reading of around 3.7 V.
I quote myself:
"I actually tried using both test leads directly on the resistor and while it did give me a reading, it also started to smell funny after a while. It also read something like 0.44 V. But after putting the negative lead on the metal shield, and positive on either side of the resistor, I got a very different reading. I got something like 3.7 V."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So negative lead on one end of the resistor and positive lead on the other end is the wrong idea.
The correct way to measure is to have the negative lead touch some point that connects to ground, like the metal around a screw hole or these metal shields, and then the positive lead on either side of the resistor. The difference between them is very small. It measures maybe 3.65 V if you put the red probe (positive) on the left end of resistor and it measures 3.70 V if you put the probe on the other side of the resistor. Can you maybe answer which value to note down? I keep running into this issue, and I keep notes of my findings (like a proper professional will do), so I keep writing down both. This I think is something I will learn with time, and once I get proper schematics of the things I measure.
I also wonder why some people will write down voltage as "5V" while others will write "5 V"? Is there no standard to this? Do you travel at 60mph or at 60 mph? I don't travel at either, because I use Km/h and there is always a space between measurement value and the measurement unit. But we have "Km/h" wrong too, because "kilo" is the only SI prefix that uses a lower case "k", so it should be "km/h". But Microsoft has it wrong too, because they write "KB" for kilobyte, instead of "kB". This depends on what version of Windows OS it is I think, or if it's MS-DOS. Anyway. I got carried away here. But please do tell me if there is a right and wrong way to write out 5 volts with unit symbols, I'm curious.
Renate said:
There is 5V on your cell phone motherboard, for the USB power in and the USB power out when powering peripherals.
Even then the actual logic on the data lines only swings from 0 to 3.3V (in USB2 low and full speed).
In USB2 high speed, it's 0.4V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Swinging logic sounds like fun.
Speaking of powering peripherals, maybe you can help me understand why my brand new Seek Thermal Comapct thermal camera doesn't work with my brand new Galaxy S22 phone? They both use USB-C connectors. But the Seek Thermal app doesn't see my camera when I plug it in. It sees is sometimes. It saw it the first time and Android prompted me to decide if I wanted Seek Thermal to auto start each time I plug the device in. I said yes. So now the phone does see something being plugged in, because it auto starts Seek Thermal, but the app complains that camera is not plugged in. If I leave it plugged in, reboot, and then it auto starts again and sees it. If I unplug, plug back in, sometimes it sees it again but most often not. So I have to reboot each time I want to be sure I will be able to use it.
It's something odd going on and I'm not the only one affected by this. Customers of FLIR ONE PRO (not caps scream, it's actually name of the product) have made similar complaints. One FLIR ONE PRO user said that this is due to lack of support for USB OTG on "modern" Android devices. Do you think it's related to OTG? What's the the current status of OTG? Is it deprecated? He suggested using a OTG adapter. Except there are none for USB-C to USB-C. They only exist for connections between USB-A to USB-C or micro-USB (B?) and vice verse. Not between USB-C and USB-C. Because USB-C devices don't need training wheels to enable compatibility, right?

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