Okay, this post is really intended as a comment and I am not going to pretend I have THE answer but I do have some suggestions to spark discussion.
Based on a lot of the recent comments and back and forth about newbies/tech support I think that the forum is trending the same way I have seen MANY other forums go. What happens is simple; a group of first adopters, who are by default, technically capable, get together on a forum and start to fill in the gaps in tech support, especially when it comes to 'modded' soft or hardwre. They spend a while helping each other out and a comfort level develops. Members know where to go, and when to ask questions.
Then what happens is that the hardware becomes much more popular. All of a sudden your average Joe can walk out a Cingular store with a 8125 for a couple hundred bucks. These folks are NOT early adopters. They are not necessarily tech savvy. They are the people that are most prone to 'keyboard to chair interface errors'. Since the early members did such a good job raising the profile of the forum it starts to come up every time someone does a Google search. and they all end up over their heads.
So then the folks that have been around for a while start to get frustrated. Why should they provide tech support? Why can't these newbies read? Why should they even try to help if they get barraged by stupid questions?
Well I think that takes us to where we are now, so the question is what do we do now? In my experience the only solution that I have seen is to have people equally dedicated to wiki and sticky writing as they are to writing ROMs and programs. The truth is that if you release something you WILL become tech support and a large part of tech support is writing documentation and then explaining it to others.
I have intended this post as something helpful and to spark discussion, not as a criticism of anyone in particular or any particular group. Hopefully it will be taken as such
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
d0ug said:
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
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I agree with you d0ug! It is rather confusing to navigate and find your way. Especially when you are a n00b, such as myself. I have been trying to mod my phone for 3 days now. I have tried many ways of unlocking my G3, but none of them have worked. I have listened to 3 different people tell me their "way" of unlocking the phone, and all 3 attempts failed in the end. I get flamed for not reading posts or searching, when i did, just nothing relevant popped up! This is not a whine fest, just saying that some people dont have phones that were built on a Wednesday, like mine that was probably built on a Monday and has issues!
Either way, i called Cingular and they are shipping me a brand new 8125 to test things out on!
Canon
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
vijay555 said:
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
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Vijay, very happy to see that the mods are looking at this. I agree that Wiki's have their limitations especially given the validity of some of the comments about conflicting advice.
The search function definitely does have its limits as well, and people are less likely to go through searches that produce a 100 threads with 5 pages each.
I for one would feel a lot better about telling someone harshly to stop answering questions if I knew that I could also direct them to a single place for answers.
I really love this forum and it has helped me so much. I don't post much except to say "thank you" from time to time to the people who have made some program that has been helpful to me. And although I have been coming to this board every day for over a year I still don't know half as much as the majority of people here.
Some solutions to this problem are:
1) get frustrated and write a mean message to the noob
2) take a minute and just give the link to the page where the answer is
3) make it easier on this forum to find things
_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
vseehua said:
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
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I would like to see a thread dedicated to G4 devices, with verified correct information in it.
It isnt just people asking the same questions over and over making the search junk. Its the inability to even search for simple short 3 letter acronyms like CID, IPL, SPL, AKU. These are all things I have tried to search for and get 0 results. If I were able to search for these terms I could probably turn up a wealth of information on my own.
_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That would work me thinks!!!!!
Hi all,
I've been reading this forum for weeks now and still have not found enough answers to be secure enough and cid-unlock my G3 2.21 vario.
I HAVE indeed read most relevant threads, although navigating them can be somewhat confusing. However When I posted some -in my n00b opinion - valid questions I either got 1) no reply whatsoever 2) replies to read "the" threads....which wasn't really helpfull or I wouldn't have asked 3) contradicting advice .... like a 2.21 G3 Can be unlocked, or it Cannot be unlocked, you have to downgrade twice, you have to upgrade twice, you Can or Cannot flash a G4 rom to a G3 device so you won't have to downgrade and CID unlock your phone first, etc.
I believe that I am somewhat beyond the real n00b level right now but still I'd like information to be more consistent and easier to find, I've already tried to suggest making a stickied n00b FAQ or wiki for us where to find the basic answers in a easy and consistent manner so the sdame questions aren't asked over and over and ROM threads hijacked for support questions.
but that is just my cup of tea.
thanks for a good forum with vlauable info.
stefan.
Regular search
Personally, I find using google or yahoo, with site:xda-developers.com, works much better than the forum search. My personal pet peeve is the inability to use quotes to search for phrases. Quotes don't work.
A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out and ask them to submit a wiki for something they just learned. If we had a submission point for the wiki, perhaps those of us who recently learned new things would do a how-to write-up and submit it to the wiki.
Finally, there are a lot of repeat threads, many with false or useless information. These threads stand in the way of a searcher. I would be happier if the moderators deleted more bad threads. Alternatively, we could use democracy -- add a "vote to delete" button to every thread not posted by a moderator and if a high enough percentage vote to delete, the thread is gone. I'd suggest 20% as a threshold -- more than that and the thread goes away.
Have been reading all your comments and completely agree with you guys... I see you have specific problems on G3/G4 on Wizards, as someone suggested a separate subforum for G4 devices would be ideal for you, and also for Prophet I guess.
About the search functions I'm also using google to search as a fallback when I can't find specific things using vBulletin's integrated search function, there's a thread on the mod forum where we discussed how to improve it, but seems is not very active now... will try to push Flar to do something about that.
Regarding the wiki, I think everyone should be less afraid to edit, if you look at the "recent changes" you see always the same people is editing. Have a look at the Hermes or BlueAngel wiki pages, these are good examples on how info has to be organized on the wiki, it's easy to find everything on the front page and information is well divided. Formating may seem a bit complicated at the beginning, but you don't have to care too much if you just want to add content, sure someone more experienced with wiki syntax will edit and correct any bad formating mistakes.
I do 100% agree with you that the wiki itself doesn't cover half of what it should. Yet if you take the time to read through it, and the links, you should be quite familiar with your device...
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
So, unfortunatly this is going to continue unless you put constraints on the board... I'm sorry, but that's what's gonna happen.
Seems to me that since this was posted the situation has sorta escalated... Faria, Molski, risidoro and just now Dr P has announced their leave.
In this rate all that'll be left will be the newbies soon. Sad to witness
_Nomad_ said:
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
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It's also very human.
_Nomad_ said:
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
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There just should be enough moderators. Now what happens when you write something stupid is you also get useless answers like "don't do that" which just makes everything even worse. There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
Two main things to handle this (just my opinion):
Re-designed forum structure
Moderators
(well, the structure should be designed in the first place so that it would be easy to extend it later...not an easy job)
prestonmcafee said:
...A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out...
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I usually suggest to those asking questions to post the solution to their question in the first post. But I'm over at the Mio forums, and since we only have 4500 peps, the mods aren't overwhelmed. I can lock a thread, post the correct thread to post in, and a few days later, delete the thread. I spend 1/2 my time using the search function to consolidate questions into single threads. But like I said, that's not feasible here. I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
mlehtola said:
There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
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Ummm, have you ever taken the time to look at the Wiki?
This forum is being provided to us basically for free. (Except for voluntary donations.) I personally can't afford to donate $$$ to the community, or for that matter to individual developers, so I dedicate some time to post in the forums to share what I've learned. I have also donated time to updating the Wiki.
If the Wiki doesn't contain all you would like it to, just add it yourself! One brief tutorial could make a world of difference to a newbie, or even a more experienced user. It also helps to point out gaps in the general knowledge we have here in these forums.
If, for example, there isn't a sub-forum for the device you use, you don't have to wait for the moderators, etc. to create it. Just create a Wiki page, and get the ball rolling on your own!
Take the initiative! That's what these forums were founded on!
Just my opinion.
Now go have fun!
JKR said:
I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
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Click to collapse
First of all, you get much better, and more detailed search results by using a search-engine like Google. Their advanced search features do a fantastic job, and can be fine tuned to search only through a specific site. (i.e. http://forum.xdadevelopers.com )
Secondly, as opposed to a PM, possibly an email with a confirmation link after the introductory information.
Hope this helps....
Now go have fun!
I think it is more synonymous of the world today, do you read the manual when you buy a new stereo or mobile phone, or do you dig in saying 'nah i know how it works it'll be ok'. People just dont take the time to understand first, they think they know it all and then the proverbial hits the fan! As an experienced R&D firmware developer it doesn't matter how easy I make the interface you will always get those that stuff it up!
So not such an easy one to fix, you have given the masses a place to ask the ridiculous and the tools to stuff up easily, How do you fix that?
Riptos
I have lurked here a bit, originally joining a while ago to see what was possible with my XDA, but got rid of it before becoming very active. Now I am back with a WING and prayer, and technicaly still qualify as a NOOB.....
Here are my thoughts on the NOOB issue.
1. This is like a big party that we NOOBS just crashed. We show up and complain about the music, or the booze, when in truth we ought to be damn glad we are at the party at all.
2. There is an answer to almost every question buried somewhere in these forums, and if you cannot or will not search for it, then you are in the wrong place. This includes other phone model forums by the way. Don't search the Herald forum only ad then give up if there is no answer. Dig into other HTC forums and you will be surprised how many of the issues you have are already covered there.
3. This may be a personal belief, but it really pisses me off to see people encounter 1 bug and post that the ROM sucks and they are reverting. I view our collective roles as beta testers. Don't stop at 1 bug- actively seek out as many as you can so the next ROM is that much closer to perfect. I have a major issue with the ROM I am using now, but I reflash it and dig deeper anyway.
4. You will and should get flamed (or at least warmed up) for posting questions that have been answered 100,000 times before including in the post right above yours. The Chefs in the forum spend hours or even days and months cooking up these ROMS for our benefit. They are not paid to do this, though they should be (and Ihave sent donations to several). The point is, we can all spend 30 minutes going through the forum reading it all to see if the issue we have uncovered is already discussed before posting a question.
5. If you want the most out of this site, spend some effort, not only searching, but documenting. Posting you have a crash is not helpful unless you can add information like what other programs you installed (card or device), what you did to the create the issue, and how to recreate it. Then the ROM Chefs can more quicly cook up solutions.
6. Credit those who help or provide. It is human nature to appreciate being thanked or recognized- see my signature? Without those three names my Wing would be chained to the T-Mobile default ROM. Oh yeah, while on the subject- DO NOT SELL anything from this site.
Just my 2 cents....
Yes you are right.
We all started as noobs and now we yell at noobs.
BUT MAYBE the noobs from today are a little different to noobs in earlier day??????
I READ 1 year without any posting NOT EVEN when i got something to work. BECAUSE it didn´t matter if I posted. Because it was useless at all.
There are so many people out there working really hard - they don´t need another "damn i want it in red not green...."
There was a time when everyone believed each other... When the cook stated "I will find a solution" then everyone waited for this. and didn´t mentioned it again and again...
BTW I will close the thread. WE don´t need another OFF topic "How2discuss"
I wrote an announcement in HOW2.... and maybe we can start working on devices again and not on generel human beeing problems. The world is getting worse...
BUT your statement should be read by everyone!
IT is good and it is quite good to see people thinking the same....
Thanks
Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum, and new to all of this, so please forgive my ineptness and general cluelessness.
I have a Samsung Galaxy S5 Active (AT&T version) model SM-G870A. It was running 5.1.1 but was rooted. It also had debugging checked.
I was getting really irritated with all the bloatware that was installed by Samsung and AT&T because I hated opening my apps drawer and having to wade through panel after panel of useless apps. Not only this, but they ate up far too much of the space and resources on my device. And, just out of principal, the phone belongs to me. I paid cash for it, I don't have any kind of contract with AT&T, so why should they force me to have all their useless junk on my phone?
At first, I would have been happy just debloating it. So I used Dr.Fone to root it, and then I attempted to get rid of all the unwanted apps using Debloater by Gatesjunior. Long story short, I've now managed to get my phone into bootloop. Since then I've tried the different solutions recommended on XDA and nothing has worked so far for me.
At this point, I'd prefer just to be able to flash a custom rom for my phone, but honestly, if I can't do this I would be happy just to go back to where I was before this whole ordeal started... me with a functioning phone (albeit, full of useless bloatware). It would be horrible to admit defeat to AT&T, but I just want a working phone now
Any advice?
Thanks.
Bump.
Nobody? The post has gotten 59 views so far. I mean, I know it's not a hot new model S8, but can nobody point me in the right direction? I'd really appreciate it as this is the only phone I have, I like it despite all the bloatware it had, and I can't afford another. Or is it only worth throwing in the bottom of some drawer to collect dust?
Thanks.
111 views now and still no suggestions or advice. Seems there are loads of helpful people replying to other requests for help. I'm not sure what's different about this.
Read read read .... There is currently NO root method for the active this is stated over and over on this forum . You should be able to use Odin and flash a stock non rooted firmware ....again there are several posts and threads explaining this in detail ....good luck .... Do some searching and reading before making posts whining about no one helping you ....
I did read read read as you say. I did lots of searching, lots of reading, and tried lots of the suggestions (including flashing factory firmware with Odin) and nothing's worked. I also said in my original post that I'm not a phone enthusiast, I don't know anything about this stuff. I thought the point to the site was that there were advanced users and developers who wouldn't mind helping out the clueless. But no, everything I've read is quite cryptic in its terminology as to be basically opaque to most but it's spoke of in a way that's clearly meant for an audience with a similar knowledge base. I mean, I just wanted all the extra crap off my phone, I wasn't hoping to hack it into The Superphone, I got in over my head, and I realize I should have just left it alone. Don't open a watch unless your job is fixing watches. I understand that this is a site supported mostly by niche enthusiasts. Phones are your fun (which I don't get, but to each their own, mine is cameras and bicycles, so I understand having a passion other people don't get) but to most people phones are just something they have. If you're knowledgeable about this stuff, then I get why you might not understand why it's confusing to people like me.
In short, thanks for nothing.
P.S. - It IS rootable. I rooted mine. It is rooted right now. It's rootable using Dr.Phone. I mentioned this, so why don't you read? I could go on and on about the lame traits of users of niche interest sites (including photographers and cyclists, they can be so irritating) one being that of false authority... but why bother when I'll just receive another boring snide response (another lame trait of some enthusiasts which they seem to get no end of satisfaction from "Umm, there's this thing called the search function... duh".)
Lol enjoy your junk phone ...
Yeah, that's about what I expected. Thanks for proving my point. Enjoy your lame hobby.
I have looked around the internet and finally found over on a sprint forum some sad news about rooting. So in the case most of you are unaware, the US models for the Galaxy s9 have had their OEM Unlock(Bootloader unlock) option disabled. I finally found the reason why on an old post back from the Galaxy s8. Please don't harp on me that its a different phone because its the concept discussed that actually gives the real reason why vendors like sprint have disabled the option!
"Link to below quote: community.sprint.com/t5/Samsung-Board/OEM-Unlock-option-is-gone/td-p/965240"]https://community.sprint.com/t5/Samsung-Board/OEM-Unlock-option-is-gone/td-p/965240:
"Quoted from Community manager, seawolf's post!"
Re: OEM Unlock option is gone
First of all, wow @zahale! its my job to be somewhat aware of our current population and to keep an eye out for knowledgeable posters (we like to try to make those people Advocates, like @DJ_Damjano and @Fireguy_6364). I have run across several of your comments in this space lately and you're definitely above the curve when it comes to technical device knowledge and experience. I'm kind of following you around now just to learn Smiley Wink
I was pretty sure I knew why Sprint locks down developer options but I put the question to some of my device folks in conversation yesterday. The explanation probably won't be something you like, but hopefully, it'll be something you can understand. Unfortunately, as with many things, knowing why also won't change anything but you asked a fair question and I wanted to try to give you a fair answer.
Sprint locks things like boot loaders down to control the average customer experience and to prevent a novice user from accidentally damaging the device or negatively affecting performance. While technically such a change isn't Sprint's fault, I can tell you from experience from when I was in customer service that most customers think it is and correcting the problem, if its possible, can be a challenge at best.
Unfortunately, this is an all or nothing kind of situation. We either leave it open for everyone or we lock it down for everyone. Since we can't customize the experience based on user knowledge, we try to optimize it for the novice, which means some of the more advanced setting areas on the phone are locked down.
This is clearly important to you and I can understand why. With this particular phone there isn't anything we can do on our end to unlock the developer options for one individual. When you are ready to upgrade again, you might want to look for factory unlocked versions of the phones you like or OEMs that leave theirs unlocked (although that's harder to verify). In this case, the developer options are not locked down in the factory unlocked versions of the S8 and S8+.
SeaWolf
Sprint Community Manager & Customer Advocate
Captain of the Vicious Cream-puff
I encourage you to post your questions on the community, give Kudos when earned and always mark the correct answer as "Accepted Solution".
Like SeaWolf states, it is just easier after your contract is done to just buy a OEM unlockable version. They do this for customer based reasons to make a novice experience for all users so that new users can't brick their phone on accident messing with settings. Sorry all but OEM unlocking will never be an option for g960U users.
All US (snapdragon) model S9s have a locked bootloader, it has been the case for a long time since at least the S7....
*Detection* said:
All US (snapdragon) model S9s have a locked bootloader, it has been the case for a long time since at least the S7....
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Yes we already know this, but this post is an update on the reason why its that way. I have looked everywhere and even asked around but no one gave me a reason why they made it this way. I finally found this post and was just sharing it for news so that people can finally understand and get an update.
WatchersGrim said:
Yes we already know this, but this post is an update on the reason why its that way. I have looked everywhere and even asked around but no one gave me a reason why they made it this way. I finally found this post and was just sharing it for news so that people can finally understand and get an update.
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but the info is nothing new plus its just a thread of people living in the stone age mixing up sim unlock with oem unlock and then complaining about it.
US snapdagon device's bootlaoder arent unlockable its a very very well know fact. any other device destined NOT for American soil can have its BL unlocked and probably be rooted.( so thats any device made for the rest of the world). surely this info has been plastered all over xda...
https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...s-recoveries--other-development/root-t4041815
root is out
I have been rooting and modding various and sundry devices since 2011. I find, for my purposes, the s9 doesn't need it. Of course YMMV