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Does the froyo update make the full 512 mb ram available? I had heard earlier that only a part of it was available due to 2.1 limitations.
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They were always available, ~300Mb for Programs and the rest for the system files... Why should that change?
I think what the OP meant was whether one had more memory for apps as ht tp:// developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.2-highlights.html claims that the 2.6.32 kernel upgrade would bring "HIGHMEM support for RAM >256MB".
At the moment, we do not have the full memory available in the Linux system:
Code:
$ adb shell
* daemon not running. starting it now *
* daemon started successfully *
$ free
total used free shared buffers
Mem: 333420 329988 3432 0 34724
Swap: 0 0 0
Total: 333420 329988 3432
I do not know whether that is related to the graphics hardware taking some of the memory, or to the kernel version:
Code:
$ uname -r
2.6.29
Edit: What do you mean by 'system files'? The OS is stored on mass storage, right? And Dalvik and friends should appear as userspace processes taking up regular memory.
satta said:
I think what the OP meant was whether one had more memory for apps as developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.2-highlights.html claims that the 2.6.32 kernel upgrade would bring "HIGHMEM support for RAM >256MB".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do understand that this does not compute, since there has always been more than 256MB available
Or has there?
I was wondering about the same thing, kernel 2.6.32.9 (JP3) also shows a little more than 300mb...
buddy01 said:
You do understand that this does not compute, since there has always been more than 256MB available
Or has there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I'm just quoting from an official AOSP site
Mine shows 30 mb available under advanced task killer. What am I missing?
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@satta yeah that's what I meant and that's what I had read. Cheers
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I've seen Desire have over 400MB of memory available for applications in a video with a some sort of task manager on..
Are you sure, max i got on my nexus one was 312MB in some rare cases, using it without closing apps at all, never got below 100MB... But my Galaxy's max is 170MB, is almost half what my nexus gave me, that kinda suck (don't know if it matter bu tit feels bad in my head )
Desire has 576MB memory.. N1 has 512MB
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Maximum free RAM i got from my sgs is 210mb, easily achieved by using Astro's process manager and killing all non-essential services.
why t.f. do you guys always want to have lots of fre ram? please read a little about android memory management... free ram is wasted ram!
FadeFx said:
why t.f. do you guys always want to have lots of fre ram? please read a little about android memory management... free ram is wasted ram!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? We all still want our phones to be as future proof as we hoped they would be when we bought them. And we want the extra RAM simply because it's supposed to be there.
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FadeFx said:
why t.f. do you guys always want to have lots of fre ram? please read a little about android memory management... free ram is wasted ram!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as it doesn't go below that ~70mb when the phones actually start lagging
Might also want to take into consideration that the counterpart Desire used in this thread is also an android phone, sure too much free memory is wasted memory but too little usable memory = lag and if there isn't a lot to use in the first place then it won't take much for the phone to start lagging.
Some help in JG and onward firmwares but it's still quite funny that a simple user can make a fix to create a solution for the entire problem and Samsung hasn't either thought about this or taken it into consideration. (Mimocan is my hero <3)
edit: WOO my first post after actually following these forums for almost half a year, just registered recently
Hey,
Actually you do not need that much RAM. Im running on JG5, which IMO is the most stable and usable firmware out there. Has been running the phone for 3 days straight without any ATK like apps, and has not experience any lags.
Another thing is that, IMHO ATKs slow down the system.
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The current Samsung froyo builds do not support highmem. It is a kernel compile time config option. Samsung will hopefully enable it in later builds.
Highmem made a noticeable difference in performance on my nexus one.
ed10000 said:
So? We all still want our phones to be as future proof as we hoped they would be when we bought them. And we want the extra RAM simply because it's supposed to be there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nonsense. You are not entitled to more free ram in any way.
Every os uses a part of the ram for the kernel code and its buffers.
In addition the advanced graphics will need memory for its texture storage and graphic representation.
A froyo kernel will not make a major difference.
The sg has 512 memory today and it is using it as it should...
akselic said:
As long as it doesn't go below that ~70mb when the phones actually start lagging
Might also want to take into consideration that the counterpart Desire used in this thread is also an android phone, sure too much free memory is wasted memory but too little usable memory = lag and if there isn't a lot to use in the first place then it won't take much for the phone to start lagging.
Some help in JG and onward firmwares but it's still quite funny that a simple user can make a fix to create a solution for the entire problem and Samsung hasn't either thought about this or taken it into consideration. (Mimocan is my hero <3)
edit: WOO my first post after actually following these forums for almost half a year, just registered recently
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lagging is actually not caused by to less free ram, in android there is no such. the used ram is caused by apps that you opened and then exited again. if you open a new app that needs more ram than aviailable (actually with a little gap of some mb) the system will close apps that are not used anymore and only kept in ram for faster opening. the lag comes from bad i/o speeds of the nand (internal memory) where apps data is stored. on i7500 there is 192mb of ram and it works ok with froyo (thanx to drakaz and gaosp team!) only thing is that every app you open forces the app you opened before to be kicked out of ram what makes switching between apps makes somewhat a pain.
also free memory and usable memory is apples and pears, useable is all memory that contains no actually running in foreground app or service. and free memory is the rest that contains absolutely no information and thus WASTED
edit: btw i7500 is running well with 20mb free ram.
I often have no more than 30 MBs free, and not running THAT many apps. What is strange is that sometimes there is 70-80 MB free, and I have not done anyting. What happens in the background is a mystery... Any suggestions?
Hi
Everybody talk about changing the VM heap value, but... what is the difference after changing it? What about increase its value? And decrease it?
On the CM7 thread adamz667 post this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15065093&postcount=4569
Anyone can confirm that?
Thanks
Increasing cm heap means that apps can use more memory which makes them run faster but then since tbey use up more mem u will have less free memory.
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
Here you got some definition:
VM Heap Size
The heap is an area of dynamic memory allocated to programs. With a larger heap size, there is more memory for the program and the garbage collector can run more efficiently. Therefore, it is possible to get better performance by setting a larger VM heap size.
However, if you set it too high, you can run out of free memory which can trigger swapping which will degrade performance. Therefore the VM setting is a trade-off.
The optimal value will depend on the RAM on the device as well as the programs and usage patterns, therefore the optimal setting can often only be determined by the user experimentally.
Default value: varies between devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from: http://droidgram.com/forum/8-Android-Dalvik-VM-Heap-Size
adamz667 said:
Here you got some definition:
from: http://droidgram.com/forum/8-Android-Dalvik-VM-Heap-Size
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks adam, but your post on CM thread was a good theory and this definition it's opposite to your post (a this new one: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15092265&postcount=4582)
I only want to know what value use without have to try all of them during days of testing...
Thanks
parads said:
Thanks adam, but your post on CM thread was a good theory and this definition it's opposite to your post (a this new one: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15092265&postcount=4582)
I only want to know what value use without have to try all of them during days of testing...
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tested all of them today and the best results was with 16mb.
How I was testing it?
Shadow Guardian HD is a very heavy game for MM's ram memory. So I've tested every vm heap size on one and the same level of SGHD, with the same run environment and game was most playable on 16mb (no freezes, reboots, no returns to home screen).
Really 16mb. Which rom? And how far did you get in the game?
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thre3aces said:
Really 16mb. Which rom? And how far did you get in the game?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am using CM7rc10 (14.06.2011) I am now in 4th episode (level?) - Medusa Sanctuary.
That is very very interesting. I'm gonna have to give cm7 another chance. Maybe rc10 is a lot better than rc4 (last cm7 I tried)
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i also have good performance with 16m tried most settings from extremely large to extremely small...
also png optimized most apps again and again... (which decreased the size of the apps by almost 10mb again - quite sure that it does not make much of a difference)
don't have any app locked in memory and only one homescreen with adw ex without widgets...
dunno till now i have not experienced any issues with lost sms or phone calls...
but i'm aware of that it could happen with my settings so it needs more testing, jit turned off etc. phone works like a charm since i switched from froyomod a week ago or so.
sent from my current location
Are you sure u tried 16 mb. Because I just tried shadow guardian on cm7 rc10 with ur settings and zepplinrox supercharger on balance and tbh it was rather language at times
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I've tried jit off and VM heat on 16MB but not get any result.
The launcher was freezing 3 or 4 times, and all games get a minimal improve: 3 seconds more until FC.
I'm testing with: Asphalt 6 and Brothers In Arms 2 (Gameloft games) and Age of Wind v2.2. All versions for MM, with people that play them on stock rom.
thre3aces said:
Are you sure u tried 16 mb. Because I just tried shadow guardian on cm7 rc10 with ur settings and zepplinrox supercharger on balance and tbh it was rather language at times
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well as i said i do not use that memory intensive apps.
(i think my biggest apps are maps and the browser, and the browser barely goes beyond 30mb, so 2 vm's with 16mb, instead of 2 with 24. but most apps stay below 10mb so i think for my use it is a good solution)
also i debloated the rom massively and replaced most system apps with smaller ones.
cm7 performs very well with this settings, at least for me. (no redraws, no lags in ui no freezes etc...)
like i said i don't use games on my stone
edit: only genie news & weather app reloads often but i think it simply has a high priority.
sent from my current location
That is quite interesting. On ho no I
And 20mb with balanced 3 supercharger works great. But not so well on 16mb
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I had tried 16mb weeks ago when somebody suggested it.
That lasted about 5 minutes.
Scrolling between adw screens was brutally choppy.
Swipe finger, wait, look at watch, then bam - the screen suddenly decides to quickly jump to the next screen...
zeppelinrox said:
I had tried 16mb weeks ago when somebody suggested it.
That lasted about 5 minutes.
Scrolling between adw screens was brutally choppy.
Swipe finger, wait, look at watch, then bam - the screen suddenly decides to quickly jump to the next screen...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got the same with 12mb vm heap. But when I use 16mb everything works fine on CM7 and HO!NO! CM7. Maybe it depends on rom/apps you use and your own configuration.
I guess.
But I'm used to fast, smooth and lots of free ram no matter what rom I'm using
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adamz667 said:
I've got the same with 12mb vm heap. But when I use 16mb everything works fine on CM7 and HO!NO! CM7. Maybe it depends on rom/apps you use and your own configuration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah 12mb is to small... experienced some errors with it too.
i have to say that for me everyhing between 16 and 32 mb seems to do not do much of a difference, but with 32mb my system uses some more RAM right after boot.
after a while it usally uses less (around 80-90mb sometimes less, sometimes more) so i normally have around 60mb free RAM, which seems to be enough.
i'm out of this discussion for now, but i have to say that i rly think ur VM Heap settings should match the apps u use.
so just try different settings.
@Zeppe
yay never experienced that, but i use only one Homescreen anyway. and ADWEX is rly memory friendly : )
sent from my current location
i thought the cappy had 512 mb of ram... why do all the roms have like 341? im confused >.< either i looked at 3 faulty spec sheets for the captivate or we arent utilizing the full ram potential for the captivate. would someone explain the truth on this matter to a captivate noob like me?
i could be wrong but i believe the 341 is available to use ram, while the rest is being used by the phone to function.
nehal51086 said:
i could be wrong but i believe the 341 is available to use ram, while the rest is being used by the phone to function.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that would make sense, but that makes the specs misleading... i traded my HD2 for a cappy because the spec sheet said 512mb of ram and the HD2 only has 411 available to the OS when running android from nand because the rest is dedicated to winmo only (which sucks massively), and i wanted more ram lol, guess i should have looked harder into things, but regardless the captivate is "better" in very many areas, but RAM is literally my deciding factor for so many things lately (like t-mobile with the sensation or sprint with the evo 3d, i would say evo 3d because it has 256mb or so more ram)
This question has been asked and answered several times....
the phone does have 512mb of ram. Like the person above me said the phones os and graphics take up a portion of the ram. All computers and smart phones work the same way.
As a side note android handles ram very well. You don't need to manage it at all by freeing it up. free ram is wasted ram as the os will have to load it back up anyways
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crystalhand said:
This question has been asked and answered several times....
the phone does have 512mb of ram. Like the person above me said the phones os and graphics take up a portion of the ram. All computers and smart phones work the same way.
As a side note android handles ram very well. You don't need to manage it at all by freeing it up. free ram is wasted ram as the os will have to load it back up anyways
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know this very well, free ram can be considered wasted ram, unless you need 200mb or so free for a tegra class game, but i think android handles ram awesomely to an extent but can be improved by implementing autokiller memory optimizer in a knowledgable and appropriate way that doesnt hurt optimizations android already has in place, zipaligning, increasing the dalvik heap size, etc... can all be done, im not asking about how android handles ram or anything, and im sorry i didnt know the question had been asked several times i am brand new to the captivate today, literally, and was doing not but seeking information i didnt understand or know, thank you for the explaination though i appreciate it, and im glad to know that my new captivate will utilize the left over 171mb of ram for something unlike my HD2 that couldnt access the last 100mb because it was designated to winmo only. i had an idea that was the case and i was just clarifying to myself because i kept reading rom changelogs stating "enabled more ram now 341mb available" or something along the lines of that and thought to myself "there should be more available already" lol
I honestly think 341MB is enough.
341 MB is alot. But something is taking all that up too. On a fresh boot, half of it is used, and I have 140~170 MB. Its even worse on GB. Most ive gotten is 100 MB free.
So if the half of the 341 plus the mysterious 171 MB that is nowhere to be found, I dont get whats using the other 171 that is not part of the 341. Lol confusing
Same happens to me. Who knows, lol
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I think its the user interface graphics, like scrolling quality is good because that ram is dedicated to things
like that
Sent from cyanogen mod 7
Hi,
I'm a bit surprised that if I add free memory and used memory from the Settings app the total is about 1.7 gb. Ain't we supposed to get 2gb? I hope sony didn't do the hdd trick (see wikipedia page on Kibibyte, I cannot post link as a junior member) and even so 2000000/1048576 = 1.907 ... where's my ram?
Under CPU-Z that show : 1.732Mb.
Your OS doesn't need RAM to function right?
Dsteppa said:
Your OS doesn't need RAM to function right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes it does but I thought it will be included in the "used memory"... if the OS takes 300 mb that's ok but why I only got 900 mb free when I kill all apps? I used to have a nexus 4 and with the same amount of memory on chip there was a *LOT* more available in the settings menu.
Geolm said:
yes it does but I thought it will be included in the "used memory"... if the OS takes 300 mb that's ok but why I only got 900 mb free when I kill all apps? I used to have a nexus 4 and with the same amount of memory on chip there was a *LOT* more available in the settings menu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That 900MB figure is about the same I normally have free. Various apps and services take up about 800MB on my phone, which seems excessive but I've turned off all background stuff that I can (some Google and Xperia services just won't go away, however). The only good news is that Android will free up memory if it's needed so that 900MB is not a finite figure (at least that's what I assume).
Hmm. I generally have no more than about 300 mb free memory at any given moment. Even just a few minutes after reboot. No weird apps or excessive widgets. Do you guys really have 900 mb free? You can check your memory on the fly using Cool Tool from Google Play.
The Z3C has 2GB of RAM, don't worry. What you are missing is used by shared graphics memory. BTW: This is exactly the reason why the Z3 has 3GB of memory (instead of 2GB) for its screen resolution is full HD opposed to "only" HD on the Z3C.
Anyhow, is it really necessary to start another thread on the same topic if there already is one?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-compact/general/ram-2gb-1-69gb-t2941487
sxtester said:
The Z3C has 2GB of RAM, don't worry. What you are missing is used by shared graphics memory. BTW: This is exactly the reason why the Z3 has 3GB of memory (instead of 2GB) for its screen resolution is full HD opposed to "only" HD on the Z3C.
Anyhow, is it really necessary to start another thread on the same topic if there already is one?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-compact/general/ram-2gb-1-69gb-t2941487
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never had any doubts about the two gigs. But how much free memory do you have on your Z3C after a reboot and after a few hours of typical usage? My other phones with this much ram have generally had a lot more memory available at any given moment. Not that *free* memory is of any particular use in android, but I'm still curious to see whether your Z3C's are the same.
Fruktsallad said:
I have never had any doubts about the two gigs. But how much free memory do you have on your Z3C after a reboot and after a few hours of typical usage? My other phones with this much ram have generally had a lot more memory available at any given moment. Not that *free* memory is of any particular use in android, but I'm still curious to see whether your Z3C's are the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I boot up the phone and immediatly check it shows some 800MB of free memory. About 500 to 600MB after a couple of days, fluctuating though. However, don't think these numbers have any meaning for Android keeps as much in memory as possible in order to increase responsiveness. It also depends on the Apps installed and the bloat disabled/blocked. Further, comparing it to other phones you had earlier might also be misleading since the version of Android could be a different one, hence comparing apples to apples would just not be possible.
When I reboot the tablet and look the free ram memory only have 1,5 ram free, is it the normal when this tab has 3 gb ram? I have thunderrom and skyhigh kernel installed.
Yep. It's for most of the android processes and important things that need to run. I also get that much too.
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yeiyei0891 said:
When I reboot the tablet and look the free ram memory only have 1,5 ram free, is it the normal when this tab has 3 gb ram? I have thunderrom and skyhigh kernel installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup that's totally normal I'm running cm12 and it's using 1.5GB.
I'm on stock, non rooted and using ES Explorers task killer i can still have about 1.4GB free.
Ok, then 3gb RAM but really you can use less that half of it.
Yep. But hey at least we got 3 GB of ram instead of 2 GB!
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DUHAsianSKILLZ said:
Yep. But hey at least we got 3 GB of ram instead of 2 GB!
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i get 2GB to use because my system uses 1GB
yeiyei0891 said:
Ok, then 3gb RAM but really you can use less that half of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do wish people would actually learn about RAM and why free RAM is actually wasted RAM.
A good summary can be found here: http://m.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care
foxmeister said:
I do wish people would actually learn about RAM and why free RAM is actually wasted RAM.
A good summary can be found here: http://m.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but otoh caching boat load of stuff into ram that won't be used is a waste of battery.
I look at the list of running processes with a system monitor and I have to say WTF does it just load every thing or what. It's running apps I don't even use any more but haven't uninstalled just in case. So if I don't want them running I have to freeze them. And that does not include all the system processes whose purpose I can't even tell. It's kind of nuts.
foxmeister said:
I do wish people would actually learn about RAM and why free RAM is actually wasted RAM.
A good summary can be found here: http://m.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but you should start to learn yourself. The RAM displayed as free is actually used as a file cache. Besides, Android killing apps in the background means that it takes longer to start a new app in a low RAM situation (because the new app needs to wait until the LMK cleared enough space) and of course you lose the context of the closed app (it needs to reload data from the internal storage or even worse from the web when you restart it).
TheGoD said:
Sorry but you should start to learn yourself. The RAM displayed as free is actually used as a file cache. Besides, Android killing apps in the background means that it takes longer to start a new app in a low RAM situation (because the new app needs to wait until the LMK cleared enough space) and of course you lose the context of the closed app (it needs to reload data from the internal storage or even worse from the web when you restart it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you in a low RAM situation when you have 1GB free out of 3GB? NO! 0.5GB out of 3GB? NO!
Does it take a significant amount if time to reclaim resources when android does require additional RAM, because it genuinely is in a low RAM situation? No, because it unceremoniously terminates unused processes, releasing resources to the kernel almost immediately. This is very different from garbage collection to release unused memory from active processes.
Don't just believe me though - take it from the people who actually wrote the OS - http://android-developers.blogspot.de/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html?m=1
It's also worth saying that you've also validated my statement "Free RAM is wasted RAM" by saying that the OS "uses" free RAM as a file cache.
All that being said, the context of this entire thread is why the OS is "using" 1.5GB out of 3GB pretty much at boot. All I've said is why this is perfectly normal, and in the general usage case, actually not undesirable.
Of couse there will be specific usage cases, where this is not going to be the optimum approach, but this is only going to affect a very small minority of users, with extremely memory demanding applications.
barth2 said:
Yeah but otoh caching boat load of stuff into ram that won't be used is a waste of battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. RAM impact on battery life is, for all practical purposes, insensitive to the amount of RAM being used. When sections of RAM are clear, the locations are not zeroed out or anything. Instead the space is just added to a free space table. Stuff in RAM not being used does not waste battery. The exception to this is if that RAM is being occupied by a misbehaving program that is driving CPU usage.
foxmeister said:
Are you in a low RAM situation when you have 1GB free out of 3GB? NO! 0.5GB out of 3GB? NO!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Foxmeister is exactly right. In nearly all real world cases, higher RAM usage leads to faster performance and better battery life.
GeorgeP said:
No. RAM impact on battery life is, for all practical purposes, insensitive to the amount of RAM being used. When sections of RAM are clear, the locations are not zeroed out or anything. Instead the space is just added to a free space table. Stuff in RAM not being used does not waste battery. The exception to this is if that RAM is being occupied by a misbehaving program that is driving CPU usage.
Foxmeister is exactly right. In nearly all real world cases, higher RAM usage leads to faster performance and better battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but you still have to get the data into RAM. That takes power, which it is wasted if the data is never used.
barth2 said:
No, but you still have to get the data into RAM. That takes power, which it is wasted if the data is never used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a trade off - preload the processes and data so that they can be accessed far more quickly (less lag) if and when required. Once in memory, if they are not being used the battery drain is negligible.
The reduction in perceived lag is *far* greater than any battery drain.
Regards,
Dave
barth2 said:
No, but you still have to get the data into RAM. That takes power, which it is wasted if the data is never used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL! Now are in angels dancing on a the head of a pin territory:laugh:
GeorgeP said:
LOL! Now are in angels dancing on a the head of a pin territory:laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lag is mostly a function of user expectation.
When you open a new app that is not running, you expect a delay. So as long as it's not excessively long, you don't feel lag. unnecessary preloading then just increases bootup time and long boot up time DOES bother people.
Now it makes sense to preload frequently used apps and some system apps that have high probability of being needed. But what I was talking about is seeing apps I used once once weeks ago still get loaded, while some apps I use every session, like my browser, not loaded on start up. The algorithm needs tweaking.
(Large apps like games have long load time, but you are not going to cache those so they are not in the conversation.)
Most lags people experience is in app lag. It's mostly due to loading graphics onto the screen, screen painting, and garbage collection.
What baffles me is I have an iPad 3 (there have been 4 generations of iPads since then) , which on paper is like a Toyota Camry compared to the Tab S BMW 300. And yet on many same apps the iPad feels smoother, scrolling around is less jerky. The only place where the Tab S is superior is 3d games like asphalt with high details and because it has 3x memory, apps need reloading less.
barth2 said:
Lag is mostly a function of user expectation.
When you open a new app that is not running, you expect a delay. So as long as it's not excessively long, you don't feel lag. unnecessary preloading then just increases bootup time and long boot up time DOES bother people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The vast majority of users (i.e. the sort of user who doesn't frequent sites like XDA) probably don't reboot their tablets/phones very often at all, so most people probably aren't that bothered.
I rather suspect that the engineers at Google have experimented with an awful lot of different strategies, before settling on what we have now.
Is it perfect? No. Like everything software related, it could do with improvement but this is always a continuous, on going process
Regards,
Dave