Related
I keep reading in the posts that one should not update busybox once Xrecovery is installed. But what about the other forms of recovery programs? Could updating wreak havoc with others?
Could someone shed some light on why updating busybox would disturb the working order like that?
Thanks in advance
xRecovery depending on certain version of busybox. Newer versions may not work as old ones and xRecovery will not work.
Ok so far so good but please tell me if it's forbidden to update busybox for something like clockworkmod recovery? Would it cause harm to it as well?
I'm interested in this too. How can we update busybox? Busybox installer isn't working.
vientito said:
I keep reading in the posts that one should not update busybox once Xrecovery is installed. But what about the other forms of recovery programs? Could updating wreak havoc with others?
Could someone shed some light on why updating busybox would disturb the working order like that?
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i prefer not to update if i was you. cwm and xrecovery are the only known compatible recxovery's available for our x8 keep the old version
Just don't update it! Last time I updated busybox, I couldn't acces xRecovery. What's the point of risking it for CWM?
Just don't!
If you really want to update busybox.. use x8 toolbox. Playing around with it a while back I tried installing and uninstalling 3 different versions of busybox that you can install from x8 toolbox. No detrimental effect on either xrecovery or cwm.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1117100
Hello guys,
In recent days, I had seen that some members have issue regarding working xposed that was released previous.
Today, I got a new version of working xposed which is patched by @shakalaca
all credit goes to original developer, I am just posting it here.
I tested it on ze550kl.
it also works on most zenfone series.
prerequisite are same as it was before.
phone must rooted
busy box must installed
root permission must provided to adb shell when asked
just extract archive & first run remov exposed freamework, if there is any non working xposed framework is installed & uninstall xposed apk if installed.
after that reboot system.
not to install frame work first click install xposxed frame work, let process complete & reboot system.
after that click install xposed installer.
now you have working xposed for sdk21 v78 arm64.
Xposed
Work perfect! Thanks!!!
Perfect work. Thanks
rajlko said:
Hello guys,
In recent days, I had seen that some members have issue regarding working xposed that was released previous.
Today, I got a new version of working xposed which is patched by @shakalaca
all credit goes to original developer, I am just posting it here.
I tested it on ze550kl.
it also works on ZenFone 2 2.20.40.13x and ZenFone Selfie 1.13. 40.661
prerequisite are same as it was before.
phone must rooted
busy box must installed
root permission must provided to adb shell when asked
just extract archive & first run remov exposed freamework, if there is any non working xposed framework is installed & uninstall xposed apk if installed.
after that reboot system.
not to install frame work first click install xposxed frame work, let process complete & reboot system.
after that click install xposed installer.
now you have working xposed for sdk21 v76 arm64.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should be pointed out that on my phone query window pops root rights, only after you enter in supersu (my system cant anwer permission adb shell, while manually entered into the application SuperSU)
post updated.
Works great !
edit1
Snapprefs works now
roman.kaskad said:
It should be pointed out that on my phone query window pops root rights, only after you enter in supersu (my system cant anwer permission adb shell, while manually entered into the application SuperSU)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sometime pop up for root rights delay due to some mismatch, like you are using patched firmware or boot image of any other system.
Pop window for root right will works well if you have original kernel installed in your phone.
e.g. if you have ze551kl & you are using boot image of ze550kl for root your phone, then you will have this issue.
In patched firmware you may face this issue due to same issue.
Now all the ZE551KL users have to use the ze550kl root method to gain root.
Does that mean all ze551kl users will face the root rights issue?
Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using Tapatalk
yvg107x said:
Now all the ZE551KL users have to use the ze550kl root method to gain root.
Does that mean all ze551kl users will face the root rights issue?
Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all,
it happens some time.
sometime you need to open super user & after that window popup for root right, it happens due to su also.
dose it working with new version .763
BTiwari said:
dose it working with new version .763
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes
roman.kaskad said:
It should be pointed out that on my phone query window pops root rights, only after you enter in supersu (my system cant anwer permission adb shell, while manually entered into the application SuperSU)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the same issue.. But i fixed it by going to auto start manager... in pre-loaded apps... And switching 'Super Su'option to 'on'...
I think as the app didnt had the the permission to auto start... Prompt only comes only when we go tp app manually.... Anywayzz it worked for me...
BTiwari said:
dose it working with new version .763
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes.
flash official xposed-v79-sdk21-arm64.zip normally work fine for me. not patched version.
my decive: ze551kl
not working?
I have the .763 stock firmware on the ZE551KL and rooted with instructions from this thread. It seems to install and "Android is upgrading" pops up, but then there is no Xposed app to install modules from and I've tried installing Xprivacy and BootManager and both say Xposed is not installed. So I guess it didn't work
thefallenghost said:
I have the .763 stock firmware on the ZE551KL and rooted with instructions from this thread. It seems to install and "Android is upgrading" pops up, but then there is no Xposed app to install modules from and I've tried installing Xprivacy and BootManager and both say Xposed is not installed. So I guess it didn't work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when you unzip file,there will be three bat files, installxposedframvwork, Installxposedinstaller & removexposedframework.
If you have rooted & install custom recovery, then you may flash zip file from recovery.
if you have not install custom recovery, then unzip file, first run installxposedframework, let process complete, provide root access from you phone when asked, let phone reboot.
after that run installxposedinstaller, let process complete, now you have xposed apk in you phone.
you may also download it from google play store or official thread from developer.
---------------------------------------
rajlko said:
when you unzip file,there will be three bat files, installxposedframvwork, Installxposedinstaller & removexposedframework.
If you have rooted & install custom recovery, then you may flash zip file from recovery.
if you have not install custom recovery, then unzip file, first run installxposedframework, let process complete, provide root access from you phone when asked, let phone reboot.
after that run installxposedinstaller, let process complete, now you have xposed apk in you phone.
you may also download it from google play store or official thread from developer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. When you say I have the apk in my phone, where exactly is it?! I cannot find it... Edit: Nevermind, I had forgotten to run the installer (faceapalm). Sorry...
hi
I can't reboot from Xposed Installer
When I try and reboot through the Xposed Framework I get the following error message everytime:
tmp-mksh: <stdin>[5]: /data/data/de.robv.android.xposed.installer/cache/busybox-xposed: not found
Reboot failed. Please use the device's normal reboot function.
I had busybox installer.
Not sure what else I'm doing wrong?
pedrazadixon said:
flash official xposed-v79-sdk21-arm64.zip normally work fine for me. not patched version.
my decive: ze551kl
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that.
installed and working on Ze551kl with stock rooted rom.
I am now have Adblock installed. woohoo!
ericpeacock79 said:
Thanks for that.
installed and working on Ze551kl with stock rooted rom.
I am now have Adblock installed. woohoo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last version v85. Work fine.
Only flash the lasted zip.
Hi there fellows ! ^^
First of all, I want you all to know that I really am sorry if this is something that has been asked before. I tried, but couldn't find an answer by myself and I don't want to damage my phone again (I may have been waaaaay too hasty in the past...). So here goes.
I have a Honor 5C NEM-L51 (European variant) which I rooted a while ago (two or three months ago maybe ? Can't remember for sure) by unlocking the bootloader, installing TWRP from ADB, flashing the SuperSU zip file... You know, the usual thing. After that I went ahead and installed Xposed Framework, Busybox and several applications and modules which needed root like many of you I guess. Everything went fine. And still is, for the record.
Now I realize that I may have been living under a rock because I discovered very recently that not only SuperSU can be downloaded from the Play Store but also that there is Magisk, an open-source alternative with more functionnalities. Guess what ? I want it.
Soooo I did some research and read this https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/magisk/official-magisk-v7-universal-systemless-t3473445 along with other articles here and there on the web and it seems that I'd just have to install some Magisk Manager app' from the Play Store... Is that really all there is to do ?!
I'm worried because it says "If you're already rooted with MagiskSU or Latest Official Systemless SuperSU". Yep, the "Systemless" part get me worried. While I do understand what it means, I can't help but wonder : since I installed SuperSU from a flashable zip file, is it Systemless ? How can I tell ?
Plus the whole thing is kinda confusing to me. If I do that, will Magisk remove SuperSU ? But if so, won't there be a problem with Xposed and other apps that need root ? Same question applies if I first manually remove SuperSU (assuming I can actually do that) before installing anything else.
In short, how should I proceed ? Do I have to remove anything ? Can I do anything ?
Again, sorry if things had been told already. I really want to take my shot, but I don't wanna soft brick my device again by being too carefree one more time.
Thank you for your time and your help.
When super su is installed magisk will make it automatically systemless. But it can't guarantee that it can always hide it. If super su isn't installed /you are unrooted then magisk will install and use magisk su.
Also since you mentioned them: soft bricks can be resolved by just reflashing your Rom, no need to wipe (lose your data) in most cases
Gesendet von meinem SM-G925F mit Tapatalk
ken2802 said:
When super su is installed magisk will make it automatically systemless. But it can't guarantee that it can always hide it. If super su isn't installed /you are unrooted then magisk will install and use magisk su.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer. Can I uninstall SuperSU to install Magisk su instead then ? Do I need to remove Xposed module and my root apps too ?
ken2802 said:
Also since you mentioned them: soft bricks can be resolved by just reflashing your Rom, no need to wipe (lose your data) in most cases
Gesendet von meinem SM-G925F mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I do know that, but I really do need my phone at the moment, so I'd kinda be in a world of pain if I brick it.
You can Uninstall super su if you want but it isn't a must if you don't care magisk su. I would remove xposed before installing magisk and after having installed magisk you can install the systemless version. As for your apps that use root, you don't need do deinstall them
ken2802 said:
You can Uninstall super su if you want but it isn't a must if you don't care magisk su. I would remove xposed before installing magisk and after having installed magisk you can install the systemless version. As for your apps that use root, you don't need do deinstall them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for the late reply.
I do want to use Magisksu instead of SuperSU. So basically, what I have to do is :
1 - Uninstall Xposed by flashing the uninstaller from TWRP
2 - Uninstall SuperSu (by the app menu ? Is it enough to remove root ?
3 - Install Magisk from the store
4 - Install systemless Xposed from the store
And I'll be all set, correct ? Nothing should go wrong ?
Zarou said:
Sorry for the late reply.
I do want to use Magisksu instead of SuperSU. So basically, what I have to do is :
1 - Uninstall Xposed by flashing the uninstaller from TWRP
2 - Uninstall SuperSu (by the app menu ? Is it enough to remove root ?
3 - Install Magisk from the store
4 - Install systemless Xposed from the store
And I'll be all set, correct ? Nothing should go wrong ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll add a couple of points to your list:
2.5 - Make sure to restore the stock boot image.
3.5 - Flash magisk.zip in recovery. You can't install through the Manager if not rooted.
If you want to use Magisk Hide to pass SafetyNet you'll have to disable Xposed. Magisk can't hide it, even if it's systemless.
Didgeridoohan said:
I'll add a couple of points to your list:
2.5 - Make sure to restore the stock boot image.
3.5 - Flash magisk.zip in recovery. You can't install through the Manager if not rooted.
If you want to use Magisk Hide to pass SafetyNet you'll have to disable Xposed. Magisk can't hide it, even if it's systemless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for this clarification. Can you also tell me how can I restore the stock boot image only ? Or Do I have no choice but to re-flash the whole ROM in order to do so ?
Zarou said:
Thank you for this clarification. Can you also tell me how can I restore the stock boot image only ? Or Do I have no choice but to re-flash the whole ROM in order to do so ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just flash the boot image from an near stock custom Rom. You can flash it through a recovery menu
ken2802 said:
Just flash the boot image from an near stock custom Rom. You can flash it through a recovery menu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, all I can find with Huawei Firmware Finder seems to be full or OTA ROM updates. I can't download the boot image only.
However, within the SuperSU app settings, there are two options : one to change superuser app and a second one to completely remove root. By any chance, does one of these options clear the boot image by itself ?
Zarou said:
Well, all I can find with Huawei Firmware Finder seems to be full or OTA ROM updates. I can't download the boot image only.
However, within the SuperSU app settings, there are two options : one to change superuser app and a second one to completely remove root. By any chance, does one of these options clear the boot image by itself ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try but if magisk complain while instalation you need to flash a fresh boot image/Rom
Gesendet von meinem SM-G925F mit Tapatalk
Zarou said:
Well, all I can find with Huawei Firmware Finder seems to be full or OTA ROM updates. I can't download the boot image only.
However, within the SuperSU app settings, there are two options : one to change superuser app and a second one to completely remove root. By any chance, does one of these options clear the boot image by itself ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can be a bit of a bother getting the boot image from inside a Huawei factory image...
SuperSU can restore your boot image when you do the full unroot. That was actually what I was referring to with my 2.5.
Didgeridoohan said:
It can be a bit of a bother getting the boot image from inside a Huawei factory image...
SuperSU can restore your boot image when you do the full unroot. That was actually what I was referring to with my 2.5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, I managed to get by the whole thing with no issue. Problem solved !
Didgeridoohan said:
I'll add a couple of points to your list:
2.5 - Make sure to restore the stock boot image.
3.5 - Flash magisk.zip in recovery. You can't install through the Manager if not rooted.
If you want to use Magisk Hide to pass SafetyNet you'll have to disable Xposed. Magisk can't hide it, even if it's systemless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi all,
Yesterday I've unlocked my Oneplus 3T bootloader and installed TWRP.
After that I flashed Lineage 14.1, Open Gapps, addonsu-14.1-arm64-signed.zip and finally Magisk. Reboot and install SuperSu.
But I'm wondering if I still need to flash the Lineage addonsu and SuperSu.
tutabeier said:
Hi all,
Yesterday I've unlocked my Oneplus 3T bootloader and installed TWRP.
After that I flashed Lineage 14.1, Open Gapps, addonsu-14.1-arm64-signed.zip and finally Magisk. Reboot and install SuperSu.
But I'm wondering if I still need to flash the Lineage addonsu and SuperSu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you doing mixing all those root solutions? Pick one... If you want Magisk, you do not need the other two.
Didgeridoohan said:
What are you doing mixing all those root solutions? Pick one... If you want Magisk, you do not need the other two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I probably missed something when reading the threads. I understood Magisk can root my devices, but didn't understood that simply installing it would root my device. So that's why I was flashing su binary and using SuperSU app.
Thanks a lot.
First of all I'm sorry for answering this post so late but I needed to do it.
Well, according to all I've seen about magisk, and obviously with this post, everything I must do to use magisk is:
1. Unlock Bootloader
2. Flash Official Stock ROM
3. Flash Magisk.zip
4. Install Magisk Manager
Is it all? Really? Shouldn't I do anything else, because I'm too worried about it. I've ever used SuperSU until now, and this things of MagiskSU, Magisk Manager and Magisk Hide option are really new for me.
If someone could answer me, including the owner of this post it'd be VERY APPRECIATED and I would thank you all a lot!
Thanks haha
xdaVTU said:
First of all I'm sorry for answering this post so late but I needed to do it.
Well, according to all I've seen about magisk, and obviously with this post, everything I must do to use magisk is:
1. Unlock Bootloader
2. Flash Official Stock ROM
3. Flash Magisk.zip
4. Install Magisk Manager
Is it all? Really? Shouldn't I do anything else, because I'm too worried about it. I've ever used SuperSU until now, and this things of MagiskSU, Magisk Manager and Magisk Hide option are really new for me.
If someone could answer me, including the owner of this post it'd be VERY APPRECIATED and I would thank you all a lot!
Thanks haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not quite apparent from your post if you have rooted with SuperSU already and now want to use Magisk instead. But, considering that you're posting in a thread that deals with moving from SuperSU I'm gonna go with that... Kind of...
You will need an unlocked bootloader, yes.
If you've rooted with SuperSU you can reflash your ROM, or use something like @osm0sis unSU zip and then flash the stock boot image only. Depends on your setup which option is easier. If you're not already rooted, this step is unnecessary.
Installing Magisk is just as easy as that, yes.
The Manager is also installed when flashing the Magisk zip, so this step is unnecessary. However... In rare cases the Manager doesn't install with the zip. If that happens you just have to install it manually.
The only step I'd like to add is to have a backup of all important data and files on your device. That's always good practice when tinkering with your device...
The release thread and the installation/troubleshooting thread (I'm hoping to have time to update it for Magisk v15.2 tonight) are good resources when setting everything up and if you encounter issues. Searching through the general support thread is also a good idea if issues arise. Most questions have been answered numerous times already.
I'm new to Magisk but have a couple of questions. I have a pixel XL running Dirty UNICORNS rooted with SuperSU. If I want to use Magisk can I just flash my dirty UNICORNS rom, gapps and then the magisk.zip?
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Hi ..I am using Nexus 6 stock rom , super su, and with all kind root apps Xposed modules .
My questions is do I need to uninstall all the root apps first before flashing the UN su zip ?? Pls help sir
jc1266 said:
Hi ..I am using Nexus 6 stock rom , super su, and with all kind root apps Xposed modules .
My questions is do I need to uninstall all the root apps first before flashing the UN su zip ?? Pls help sir
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. You merely need to uninstall SuperSU, either through the SuperSU app (complete uninstall) or by using the unSU zip. You'll also have to make sure that you restore the stock unpatched boot image.
After that you can flash Magisk and you'll be good to go.
I have successfully installed Magisk on my device Root works but when I try to install a magisk module I get an error about not being able to mount magisk.img. When I try to install through recovery the module is flashes without any errors but once you open the app It displays "no modules installed". Before the G5s plus that I have a had the Moto G5 Plus. It had the same problem I just had to install another kernel over stock one and Magisk would work as expected. Is there a kernel for stock room that would support Magisk. Anyone else had this problem or is it just me?
ive no issue installing modules through magisk. Theres a lot of factors here. You didnt mention but id presume you installed magisk through recovery. Also, I presume you installed xposed. Maybe the modules your using require xposed to work. I forgot the exact steps to install xposed through magisk, but its not hard, and Id assume anyways you tried all of that. Have to flask xposed through recovery if I remember, then you can install xposed app apk too through recovery, then open magisk and install the latest xposed there. Im not using a stock rom, however Im fully confident if you properly rooted, and unlocked your phone of course, (I assume you did, just saying) its not a kernel issue. Sorry if I wasnt any help, its all i can think of right now.
When I got the phone I unlocked the bootloader and installed TWRP. When I set up my device I went back to recovery to install Magisk 14.3. It installed correctly and I got root using Magisk but when I try to install any module through the Magisk app I get an error. If I got you right should I try to install Xposed too? I was planning to install Xposed, Magisk version. But when I try that I get an error. I have attached a screenshot of when I try to install Xposed by topjohnwu and Greenify for Magisk. I get the same error.
well, xposed may not be your issue if you cant install any module with magisk manager. The modules, majority of them, if not all of them, i dont know, do not require xposed. Some do, most do not. Now please keep in mind, i could be wrong. I would say this, no harm in installing xposed, its basically a must get anyways for many awesome apps/modules. How you install, first install the xposed manager, youll have to look around for it, its not on the play store. Then downkoad magisk xposed through magisk. Once you download that zip file boot into twrp and install xposed through twrp.
This is a youtube on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCcvsOp83A4 Now thing is, this may not fix any of your problems. But theres a chance it may. Like i said either way you want xposed on rooted phones anyways.
Patched kernel for stock. I have no problem running modules on Magisk. Flash in recovery.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=73930507
Sent by way of magic
if youre using stock rom, try this kernel. i just compiled it today from geneticengineers git. last updated hours ago.
Ae3NerdGod said:
if youre using stock rom, try this kernel. i just compiled it today from geneticengineers git. last updated hours ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UPDATE, just found out wifi doesnt work, sorry, been traveling and didnt think to test. everything else seems to work tho.
heres an older version of the kernel not compiled by me until i figure this out
Ae3NerdGod said:
UPDATE, just found out wifi doesnt work, sorry, been traveling and didnt think to test. everything else seems to work tho.
heres an older version of the kernel not compiled by me until i figure this out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a thread for these kernels or any for G5S Plus?
THERAJ12 said:
Is there a thread for these kernels or any for G5S Plus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-g5s-plus/development/kernel-t3707143/post74562730#post74562730
wifi fixed btw
Hi all, i'm using a stock rom, rooted with magisk and debloated (manually). I always faced this problem, the 90% of the modules i try to install ends with something like that:
See Screen below
However i've never asked help because i tought it was a Magisk problem resolvible with an update...but every update ended always in the same way for me when trying to install some modules. I've also attached some logs here of when i tried to update xposed systemless if someone could help me it will be really apprecciated!
P.s Anyone facing the same problem? I've read somewhere that a similar problem is common with Motorola devices but idk if this is the case
Giuskiller said:
Hi all, i'm using a stock rom, rooted with magisk and debloated (manually). I always faced this problem, the 90% of the modules i try to install ends with something like that:
See Screen below
However i've never asked help because i tought it was a Magisk problem resolvible with an update...but every update ended always in the same way for me when trying to install some modules. I've also attached some logs here of when i tried to update xposed systemless if someone could help me it will be really apprecciated!
P.s Anyone facing the same problem? I've read somewhere that a similar problem is common with Motorola devices but idk if this is the case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this via Magisk manager?
ashyx said:
Is this via Magisk manager?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes this is via Magisk Manager, however the same error (could not mount something) appears also when i try to install a module via twrp. The "best" thing is that some module just works both way (Busybox NDK for example) while other fails both ways. No module work in a way and doesn't work in another. So basically if a module work in magisk can be installed also via twrp otherwise it cannot be installed, no matter what i try
I have the same problem. Trying to install viper4a.
I have no clue how to fix it
Giuskiller said:
Yes this is via Magisk Manager, however the same error (could not mount something) appears also when i try to install a module via twrp. The "best" thing is that some module just works both way (Busybox NDK for example) while other fails both ways. No module work in a way and doesn't work in another. So basically if a module work in magisk can be installed also via twrp otherwise it cannot be installed, no matter what i try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is a bug in Magisk with the way some modules attempt to install and mount, which is why some work.
I'm surprised though that they don't install in TWRP. Is your device encrypted, can you mount /data in recovery?
ashyx said:
I think this is a bug in Magisk with the way some modules attempt to install and mount, which is why some work.
I'm surprised though that they don't install in TWRP. Is your device encrypted, can you mount /data in recovery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually i'm at university, but when i come back home i will try and let you know. What i can say for now is that every zip i've flashed so far worked just flawlessy (well, apart magisk's ones)
Downloaded atmos dolby only module for nougat....rebooted snd stucked on samsung logo. Ohhhh.... How to get rid of this module, is anyway to do it?
Please help
Edit:
installed module uninstaller and followed it - > https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72542167&postcount=242
working now.
Looking for info how to install viper4Android....
netgar said:
Downloaded atmos dolby only module for nougat....rebooted snd stucked on samsung logo. Ohhhh.... How to get rid of this module, is anyway to do it?
Please help
Edit:
installed module uninstaller and followed it - > https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72542167&postcount=242
working now.
Looking for info how to install viper4Android....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well as far as i know, if you're on stock rom you won't be able to install audio mods because they're in conflict with something in the Rom. You should use a custom rom instead. However not sure 100% about this, maybe some audio mods can work, but you should ask someone else, i'm not so informed