Related
This isn't another repeat of the same question regarding apps/compatibility. I know there are some solutions out there and some that we'll have more access to shortly (i.e. Plex.)
My question is what is going to be the best setup for hosting and serving local media to a ChromeCast? I currently have an outdated (unsupported) Windows Home Server with 3TB of storage. With an Intel Atom CPU it still functions nicely as a lightweight, energy efficient file server. I'm concerned about it's capability to function as a DLNA server, however. It's powerful enough to serve raw files but I think that's about it.
I bought the Avia expanded feature set and haven't had much luck with it. I understand I can't use it to simply browse files on my server and play them, so I installed the Serviio DLNA server (http://serviiowhs.codeplex.com/) and the Avia app does find this media (although some files are sporadically missing.) Playing them on Avia doesn't work at all, either on my phone or on Chromecast. I turned off transcoding on the server but I'm just generally confused at where the video processing is all taking place and where I want it to be taking place.
Ideally I'd like to just serve files up to my ChromeCast and have it perform all of the decoding/video processing, I think? Is that ever a realistic option or do I need to find something that is going to work better as DLNA server? Maybe a NAS with some kind of DLNA functionality built in? Anyone else have opinions on the best setup?
usefulidiot127 said:
My question is what is going to be the best setup for hosting and serving local media to a ChromeCast? I currently have an outdated (unsupported) Windows Home Server with 3TB of storage. With an Intel Atom CPU it still functions nicely as a lightweight, energy efficient file server. I'm concerned about it's capability to function as a DLNA server, however. It's powerful enough to serve raw files but I think that's about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm... Atom is fine for DLNA, but things that require transcoding (ie, Plex Media Server) will probably leave you wanting more horsepower.
usefulidiot127 said:
I bought the Avia expanded feature set and haven't had much luck with it. I understand I can't use it to simply browse files on my server and play them, so I installed the Serviio DLNA server (http://serviiowhs.codeplex.com/) and the Avia app does find this media (although some files are sporadically missing.) Playing them on Avia doesn't work at all, either on my phone or on Chromecast. I turned off transcoding on the server but I'm just generally confused at where the video processing is all taking place and where I want it to be taking place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on WHS 2011 now, but IIRC WHSv1 supports UPnP and Windows Media Connect. It might show up for DLNA, but I don't remember if Windows Media Connect is turned on by default. Regardless, DLNA alone won't help you if your media isn't in a Chromecast-compatible format.
usefulidiot127 said:
Ideally I'd like to just serve files up to my ChromeCast and have it perform all of the decoding/video processing, I think? Is that ever a realistic option or do I need to find something that is going to work better as DLNA server? Maybe a NAS with some kind of DLNA functionality built in? Anyone else have opinions on the best setup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chromecast's processor is powerful, but nowhere near as flexible as a desktop computer. You can't necessarily automatically download and install software CODECs like you can on a desktop computer.
Think of it more like an iPod - unless the media was made to be compatible, there will likely need to be some amount of "preparation" (ie, transcoding) that needs to be done to make it compatible.
Your options would be to convert/transcode your media library so it's Chromecast compatible, use RealPlayer Cloud (which will require you to upload any incompatible media to RP Cloud where they'll do the transcoding for you via their SurePlay feature), or use Plex Media Server so you have on-the-fly transcoding.
bhiga said:
Hmm... Atom is fine for DLNA, but things that require transcoding (ie, Plex Media Server) will probably leave you wanting more horsepower.
I'm on WHS 2011 now, but IIRC WHSv1 supports UPnP and Windows Media Connect. It might show up for DLNA, but I don't remember if Windows Media Connect is turned on by default. Regardless, DLNA alone won't help you if your media isn't in a Chromecast-compatible format.
Chromecast's processor is powerful, but nowhere near as flexible as a desktop computer. You can't necessarily automatically download and install software CODECs like you can on a desktop computer.
Think of it more like an iPod - unless the media was made to be compatible, there will likely need to be some amount of "preparation" (ie, transcoding) that needs to be done to make it compatible.
Your options would be to convert/transcode your media library so it's Chromecast compatible, use RealPlayer Cloud (which will require you to upload any incompatible media to RP Cloud where they'll do the transcoding for you via their SurePlay feature), or use Plex Media Server so you have on-the-fly transcoding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm guessing I'm running into issues with Avia/ChromeCast because I have transcoding disabled and the media may not be in a format supported by Chromecast? I thought maybe since my android phones/tablets with MX Player can process just about any file, maybe the ChromeCast could as well. (Not taking into account that ChromeCast is a vastly cheaper device.)
My best option might just be to run Plex on my full powered desktop and treat my server as network attached storage. I'll just need to turn the PC on when I'm ready to Cast (surely there's an app out there to wake a desktop from sleep mode...)
usefulidiot127 said:
Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm guessing I'm running into issues with Avia/ChromeCast because I have transcoding disabled and the media may not be in a format supported by Chromecast? I thought maybe since my android phones/tablets with MX Player can process just about any file, maybe the ChromeCast could as well. (Not taking into account that ChromeCast is a vastly cheaper device.)
My best option might just be to run Plex on my full powered desktop and treat my server as network attached storage. I'll just need to turn the PC on when I'm ready to Cast (surely there's an app out there to wake a desktop from sleep mode...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes - most likely your media isn't in a format Chromecast can play.
You can test it by shooting a 720p clip on your phone/tablet and throwing that onto your server - that should be playable by Chromecast unless you have an uber-fancy device that saves in a non-mainstream format.
MX Player is pretty awesome - it really makes good use of hardware decoding and such, but of course today's phones and tablets are closer to desktop computer than appliance-type devices like Chromecast.
Yes, probably your best bet it to run Plex on a reasonably-fast machine. It might be worth trying it on your WHS box too, though it might be slow to start stuff, depends. My WHS 2011 box is an Atom 330 (dual-core), it was a good upgrade from my previous Atom 230 (single-core) but its CPU isn't much faster than those found in some of the more-powerful NAS units. I just use it as a fileserver, so it's not a huge deal and the primary design factor was small form factor (it's mounted to a plate mounted on the back of my TV).
As long as the network connection between your server and your Plex Media Server machine is good, it should work well. For a while I was running pyTivo on my desktop to on-the-fly transcode stuff to play on my TiVos...
bhiga said:
Yes - most likely your media isn't in a format Chromecast can play.
You can test it by shooting a 720p clip on your phone/tablet and throwing that onto your server - that should be playable by Chromecast unless you have an uber-fancy device that saves in a non-mainstream format.
MX Player is pretty awesome - it really makes good use of hardware decoding and such, but of course today's phones and tablets are closer to desktop computer than appliance-type devices like Chromecast.
Yes, probably your best bet it to run Plex on a reasonably-fast machine. It might be worth trying it on your WHS box too, though it might be slow to start stuff, depends. My WHS 2011 box is an Atom 330 (dual-core), it was a good upgrade from my previous Atom 230 (single-core) but its CPU isn't much faster than those found in some of the more-powerful NAS units. I just use it as a fileserver, so it's not a huge deal and the primary design factor was small form factor (it's mounted to a plate mounted on the back of my TV).
As long as the network connection between your server and your Plex Media Server machine is good, it should work well. For a while I was running pyTivo on my desktop to on-the-fly transcode stuff to play on my TiVos...
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Click to collapse
My Plex Server is running everything just fine off of an old Dell Dimension E510. The only upgrade I've made to that server was to boost the ram from 1gb to 4gb. It transcodes everything on the fly just fine. I'm quite surprised, actually.
jsdecker10 said:
My Plex Server is running everything just fine off of an old Dell Dimension E510. The only upgrade I've made to that server was to boost the ram from 1gb to 4gb. It transcodes everything on the fly just fine. I'm quite surprised, actually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like your E510 is an 3GHz Intel Pentium 4 531 (or at least the one CNET reviewed was).
My Atom 330 is still kinda poopy in comparison, but this at least gives me enough hope to perhaps try Plex server and see how it fares.
Thanks for that!
bhiga said:
Looks like your E510 is an 3GHz Intel Pentium 4 531 (or at least the one CNET reviewed was).
My Atom 330 is still kinda poopy in comparison, but this at least gives me enough hope to perhaps try Plex server and see how it fares.
Thanks for that!
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Yup, you may as well at least give it a shot and just see how it'll fare because I wasn't really too optimistic about mine being able to handle the duties of transcoding either...ie. from mkv, from avi, etc. But to my surprise, it did the job just fine n dandy & I've been MORE than satisfied with my setup so far.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Doesn't WHS come with Twonky Server? Or is that just some Brands of it?
Twonky will do transcoding but you might need to install FFMPEG and set it up to do it.
Tonky is probably the best at transcoding and very configurable so if WHS has it I would look into using that first.
Yes the Atom is probably underpowered for good transcoding but provided your source files aren't too High Quality I think it might cut it.
As for anyone looking for the BEST WAY...The choices are pretty slim right now....
You have ONLY two choices right now....
Plex and Plex apps OR DLNA server and aVia and I think we established that aVia even with DLNA server that transcodes doesn't always mean a CCast compatible stream.
Maybe Bubble solves that or maybe some other player does but until they are released those are really the only two choices and answers anyone can give for people without a rooted CCast.
I'm having best luck using PlayOn/Avia. PlayOn uses VLC player so can stream just about any format, haven't found one yet it can't do. Avia can fine PlayOn server via DLNC. Also doesn't require too much CPU, have even used a netbook as PlayOn server and works really well. Plus, you get all the PlayOn channels, which is a bunch.
xenokc said:
I'm having best luck using PlayOn/Avia. PlayOn uses VLC player so can stream just about any format, haven't found one yet it can't do. Avia can fine PlayOn server via DLNC. Also doesn't require too much CPU, have even used a netbook as PlayOn server and works really well. Plus, you get all the PlayOn channels, which is a bunch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the PlayOn app will soon support CCast as well, At least they are advertising that as coming very soon.
Like I said there are going to be more options coming out soon that will change whatever answer is given today which is why I caution anyone from re-encoding their Library trying to fix a temporary problem!
Asphyx said:
And the PlayOn app will soon support CCast as well, At least they are advertising that as coming very soon.
Like I said there are going to be more options coming out soon that will change whatever answer is given today which is why I caution anyone from re-encoding their Library trying to fix a temporary problem!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to hear CCast support is coming for PLayOn. Works OK with Avia but direct support will be great. The best thing about PlayOn is that is uses VLC Player so just about every format supported as well as low CPU needs.
xenokc said:
Good to hear CCast support is coming for PLayOn. Works OK with Avia but direct support will be great. The best thing about PlayOn is that is uses VLC Player so just about every format supported as well as low CPU needs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it may use VLC to play on Android but there is no guarantee it will use VLC on the CCast.
It is my hope that VLC (and all Player apps that are out there) will support CCast and create a DIAL registered Player App for Chromecast that other programs could use as well.
Asphyx said:
Well it may use VLC to play on Android but there is no guarantee it will use VLC on the CCast.
It is my hope that VLC (and all Player apps that are out there) will support CCast and create a DIAL registered Player App for Chromecast that other programs could use as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually PlayOn uses VLC on the server side, not the client side.
Does anyone think we'll be able to use the 'Cast Screen' in the display settings with Chromecast anytime soon?
The S3 Kid said:
Does anyone think we'll be able to use the 'Cast Screen' in the display settings with Chromecast anytime soon?
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Click to collapse
Ah, I've been wondering why this isn't working for me in OmniROM. Is this a standard feature/option even on the stock ROM for KitKat? Or are you using OmniROM as well? It doesn't detect my Chromecast. Thanks.
ritzxda said:
Ah, I've been wondering why this isn't working for me in OmniROM. Is this a standard feature/option even on the stock ROM for KitKat? Or are you using OmniROM as well? It doesn't detect my Chromecast. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KitKat is Miracast certified. Problem is, Chromecast doesn't support Miracast, at least not today...
bhiga said:
KitKat is Miracast certified. Problem is, Chromecast doesn't support Miracast, at least not today...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah got it! Thank you. I thought it was something new due to the new "Cast" option in the settings. Thanks.
xenokc said:
Actually PlayOn uses VLC on the server side, not the client side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks didn't know that.
The S3 Kid said:
Does anyone think we'll be able to use the 'Cast Screen' in the display settings with Chromecast anytime soon?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you mean on your KitKat Phone, as @bhiga noted thats for Miracast not CCast. You can however cast a screen from a Desktop Browser. It may be possible in the future to do screen mirroring as there is code in KitKat to do it but from what Koush sees it seems like it will be up to the manufacturer to cook it into the ROM which says to me it will need driver support in the Kernel to work.
Lets hope I'm dead wrong about that!
I have Plex, Twonky, Subsonic, Air Video, and from the 4, only 2 show up as DLNA on my network (plex and twonky) Now, I modified my Subsonic to play from the browser locally as well as remotely so I guess Chrome + anything that plays on chrome could be casted to Chromecast, correct?
Will try it out... Also, I can play Plex from Chrome browser, going to see if I can get a fullscreen going..
EDIT: I got all 3 Plex, Subsonic and Twonky to stream in fullscreen (but from Chrome it has a 720p limit - lame...) ---another note, for Twonky, when you pick the media, you have to cast the opened tab, not the one you are currently on when you select the media like the other 2, just like when you drag and drop .mp3 or .mkv to Chrome, whichever tab opens, you cast that one, only problem is when I drag an MKV to Chrome I get no sound, so I will stick to Plex/Subsonic/Twonky when playing .MKV... Saves me having to run an HDMI cable to the TV, I think it's still worth the $35 even if I can't root it
m4f1050 said:
EDIT: I got all 3 Plex, Subsonic and Twonky to stream in fullscreen (but from Chrome it has a 720p limit - lame...) ---another note, for Twonky, when you pick the media, you have to cast the opened tab, not the one you are currently on when you select the media like the other 2, just like when you drag and drop .mp3 or .mkv to Chrome, whichever tab opens, you cast that one, only problem is when I drag an MKV to Chrome I get no sound, so I will stick to Plex/Subsonic/Twonky when playing .MKV... Saves me having to run an HDMI cable to the TV, I think it's still worth the $35 even if I can't root it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Playing video via Chrome + Cast extension is more like playing video through remote desktop rather than playing directly. It's the least desirable solution for video playback, though a reasonable fallback in most cases.
I've been accessing Plex Server via DLNA using AVIA, and it's been ok. However I've noticed with larger video files, the Chromecast seems to stop for a few seconds every 10min or so. It's not always, but I don't want it to be any.
Would I have better success using the Plex App instead of AVIA or is this more of a hardware issue? (Plex Server is running on an old Dell p4 )
thanks.
Both work well for me. I have zero issues with the plex. Avia has only given me a couple issues because of streaming from other sites. The developers are all working very hard, so it more than likely will get smoothed out in time. I still want to get a NAS setup as well and see how that goes too.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
IMO plex is much better than avia. Plex server automatically transcodes incompatible file formats for CCast plus it has subtitle support. However plex transcoding on pc needs very high cpu so it may not work properly on older hardware.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Hard to say if Plex will solve that pausing problem or not. Could be happening for any number of reasons not related to the app or casting method being used and be all about bad network and CCast connection.
Plex being the better option with Plex server for all that transcoding goodness still suffers from the same Pause and buffering issues from time to time that aVia will suffer from, the only improvement being it should happen less and it won't be because the source file is incompatible.
But lets be clear, both Plex and aVia will seem very much like Beta software at times because both are still working out the kinks on the CCast side of things with their systems. aVia has already released a number of updates to their Player and Plex has mostly focused on the Server/Transcoding side of things.
Plex still suffers with bugs in the control protocol where the control device will lose connection but not pick it back up properly without restarting the media from beginning and then manually going back to where you left off, and the Transcoder on the server side is still not at 100% as far as the CCast profile is concerned. Surround is not working properly for CCast in the Transcoder and it may still be having some issues with source files that are at such a high VBitrate that the transcoder can't really keep up. Plex Devs are aware of these problems and are working on them and I suspect thats Reason #1 why they are limiting CCast support to PlexPass users right now as those users are much more familiar with the system and don't want to deal with the onslaught of complaints they would get if these bugs were released to a wider audience as is.
aVia on the other hand is probably a bit more mature in regards to control and connection since their methodology doesn't require a lot because it merely takes in data and spits it back out to the CCast. But this is also why some files simply won't play well on it when sent to a CCast. I'm not sure what plans the aVia Devs have but they could really improve the CCast support if they did some minimal transcoding in the same way the GoogleCast Ext (Chrome) does to make any stream coming in fully CCast compatible. Not sure if most mobile units could handle the task of transcoding without burning through your battery but it would make aVia much more flexible in what it can send to the CCast.
It's apparent that for the $35 price point that the CCast has a very narrow window on what it can play problem free and it certainly is not robust enough to play from content libraries that have very high quality content without transcoding. Most people with large libraries also tend to favor MKV containers due to the fact they can support subs, Multitrack Audio and any Video or Audio Codec.
It is this ANYTHING GOES capability in MKV that always makes it difficult to get transcoding right. and unfortunately it's that same versatility of MKV that makes it impossible to support those container types natively in Hardware. There are just too many Codecs that it would need to have onboard for it to be practical.
That said I would love to see a NextGen CCast support MKV/H264/AAC natively and regardless of container type if the video is H264/AAC just play it without the need to transcode. It probably supports those files now but there is no option (save maybe aVia) to play them to CCast without Transcoding as I write this.
Thanks for the replies! I'm not huge into media and all the codecs and containers. Typically I just rip everything to mp4 since it seems the most compatible for devices. All I want is to be able to stream the occasional movie and TV show that I have ripped, and typically those are shows for my son, so I don't need 1080p or anything, lol.
I do think the majority of my issue might be the network. I played about 3 hours consecutively of tv shows/movies fine last night with no issue. It wasn't until I started streaming the football game on my laptop at the same time that I started to get the pausing in the CCasted video again. Once I switched to streaming the football game over 4g connection instead wi-fi, the pausing stopped after a little while. At least I know networking and hardware a lot more than I do media encoding
walmartman said:
Thanks for the replies! I'm not huge into media and all the codecs and containers. Typically I just rip everything to mp4 since it seems the most compatible for devices. All I want is to be able to stream the occasional movie and TV show that I have ripped, and typically those are shows for my son, so I don't need 1080p or anything, lol.
I do think the majority of my issue might be the network. I played about 3 hours consecutively of tv shows/movies fine last night with no issue. It wasn't until I started streaming the football game on my laptop at the same time that I started to get the pausing in the CCasted video again. Once I switched to streaming the football game over 4g connection instead wi-fi, the pausing stopped after a little while. At least I know networking and hardware a lot more than I do media encoding
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MP4/H264/AAC should have no issues playing on CCast. If it stops or stutters then the cause is likely Network related.
Laptop streaming is probably connecting via Wireless. Thats half your Wireless Radio Bandwidth out the door.
I suspect thats all going to change if what I'm reading coming out of CES sees the market soon. Netgear has a new Router that claims to have 115Mps throughput on 2.4Ghz and into the 300s on 5Ghz.
Something that might help in your situation is to configure the Laptop to only connect to the 5Ghz side of the router. Then your Wireless traffic should not eat into the 2.4Ghz throughput. No Guarantees mind you but it's worth a try the next time you want to stream to both a CCast and some other device.
My guess is that it's the cpu. I run plex on a minimum spec machine and it runs okay until the computer does something the background. Then I see skips
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
I use Avia more because it can see the USB flash drive on my router and stream media from it. The only thing I don't like is that Avia does not show thumbnails of each file - only a default music note symbol for mp3 and video reel symbol for mp4. However, Avia does show thumbnails of media files on the device and on Plex Media Server on my PC. Plex is nice, but I don't want to turn on the high power PC just for it, unless it's necessary.
ETFoneHome said:
I use Avia more because it can see the USB flash drive on my router and stream media from it. The only thing I don't like is that Avia does not show thumbnails of each file - only a default music note symbol for mp3 and video reel symbol for mp4. However, Avia does show thumbnails of media files on the device and on Plex Media Server on my PC. Plex is nice, but I don't want to turn on the high power PC just for it, unless it's necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very strange that you don't see thumbnails of your movies/video files using Avia. I have the paid version of Avia and it's up-to-date with all the recent app updates and mine shows each and every thumbnail with no problem...hmmmmm...man, that's really odd. Have you tried updating it? Is it the most current release? Have you tried clearing the app data/cache?
jsdecker10 said:
That's very strange that you don't see thumbnails of your movies/video files using Avia. I have the paid version of Avia and it's up-to-date with all the recent app updates and mine shows each and every thumbnail with no problem...hmmmmm...man, that's really odd. Have you tried updating it? Is it the most current release? Have you tried clearing the app data/cache?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I tried clearing everything. I think since Avia is not showing thumbnails for the USB flash drive on the router it's a router firmware issue. I don't think the DNLA feature is certified.
sherdog16 said:
My guess is that it's the cpu. I run plex on a minimum spec machine and it runs okay until the computer does something the background. Then I see skips
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that could be the issue, I'm going to make a Feature request at Plex to see if they can't add a priority setting for the transcoder which should help in cases like yours.
ETFoneHome said:
I use Avia more because it can see the USB flash drive on my router and stream media from it. The only thing I don't like is that Avia does not show thumbnails of each file - only a default music note symbol for mp3 and video reel symbol for mp4. However, Avia does show thumbnails of media files on the device and on Plex Media Server on my PC. Plex is nice, but I don't want to turn on the high power PC just for it, unless it's necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plex can see those files as well you just have to map the flash drive to some section in PMS and you may need to refresh whenever you change the Flash drive.
In my PMS setup I have my main Media NAS (Roughly 12TB RAID) for most of my media and also have Two 4TB USB Drives plugged into the NAS and a Router for content I probably won't watch often. I use the same Folder structure I do on the NAS for each external drive and add the appropriate folder of each drive to the Sections that content should be added to. The Router tends to keep the same drive Letter no matter what drive I plug into it so my Router USB port is my sort of wildcard Media location I can plug any media into and with a simple refresh can see that media in Plex.
jsdecker10 said:
That's very strange that you don't see thumbnails of your movies/video files using Avia. I have the paid version of Avia and it's up-to-date with all the recent app updates and mine shows each and every thumbnail with no problem...hmmmmm...man, that's really odd. Have you tried updating it? Is it the most current release? Have you tried clearing the app data/cache?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends on the server aVia is connecting to. Some make Thumbnails others do not. Plex will actually send you Posters while other might send you screen caps.
I didn't know you can use the avia app to access the plex media server. After I saw this thread, I immediately went into the avia app to try it out. I went the the "ADD MEDIA" and found my plex server and added it. When I click on the plex media server, it doesn't show any of my movies. I just see two top categories: ADD MEDIA and the name of my Plex server.
My plex server is installed in a notebook. And the movies are in the default video folder in libraries. Do they need to be in a specific folder?
---------- Post added at 03:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 AM ----------
Sorry, nevermind.. My notebook was asleep. LOL! Everything works. WOW!
I'm looking at this Qnap TS-112P model. It looks promising with the ability to install Plex Media Server. I don't need transcoding and the specs look good: 1.6GHz; 512MB. But it's a new model and I can't find any reviews.
http://www.qnap.com/en/index.php?lang=en&sn=822&c=351&sc=514&t=524&n=19949
ETFoneHome said:
I'm looking at this Qnap TS-112P model. It looks promising with the ability to install Plex Media Server. I don't need transcoding and the specs look good: 1.6GHz; 512MB. But it's a new model and I can't find any reviews.
http://www.qnap.com/en/index.php?lang=en&sn=822&c=351&sc=514&t=524&n=19949
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Click to collapse
That unit has some great reviews on Newegg but the low RAM scares me...
As for Transcoding, you never need it until you need it! LOL
The one on Newegg is 112 - not 112P. Got a PC with Plex ms to transcode, should that ever arises. So far no need.
ETFoneHome said:
The one on Newegg is 112 - not 112P. Got a PC with Plex ms to transcode, should that ever arises. So far no need.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, subtle difference in model number, but significant spec difference:
TS-112P
CPU Marvell 6282 1.6GHz
DRAM 512MB DDR3 RAM
Flash Memory 16MB
TS-112
CPU Marvell 6281 1.2GHz
DRAM 256MB DDRII RAM
Flash Memory 16MB
I would expect the TS-112P to be significantly better than the no-P model.
ETFoneHome said:
The one on Newegg is 112 - not 112P. Got a PC with Plex ms to transcode, should that ever arises. So far no need.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The model Iooked at has 512K of Ram (I would think a Gig would be minimum for a NAS serving media and transcoding....
And if what bhiga posted is correct then the one I saw was the P model.
bhiga said:
Wow, subtle difference in model number, but significant spec difference:
TS-112P
CPU Marvell 6282 1.6GHz
DRAM 512MB DDR3 RAM
Flash Memory 16MB
TS-112
CPU Marvell 6281 1.2GHz
DRAM 256MB DDRII RAM
Flash Memory 16MB
I would expect the TS-112P to be significantly better than the no-P model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeal, the 112P is not listed on Newegg but is on Amazon but no reviews. http://www.amazon.com/TS-112P-Perso...8&qid=1389746673&sr=8-1&keywords=Qnap+TS-112P
I was looking at the Synology DS213j too. It's seems popular but doesn't have support for Plex server. http://www.amazon.com/Synology-Disk...id=1389747041&sr=8-1&keywords=Synology+DS213j
For under $200 they're not bad as entry level NAS.
Anyone who needs 1gb ram and transcoding should look for something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Synology-DiskStation-Diskless-Attached-DS713/dp/B009TPDDFG
Though at that price range I may as well build a desktop server like this: http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkS...8066&sr=1-1&keywords=Lenovo+ThinkServer+TS140
Quite lost here guys, would appriciate some help.
I'm having a lot of trouble casting my local content. I can stream it using the chrome extension, but when trying to cast from the actual web app - I get media unavailable shown on my tv.
Also - I seem to have the oppertunity to cast to my nexus 7, what exactly does it means? I tried to do that and it simply did nothing.
Last, I can't seem to sync it to my tablet, I see that some media was added but N7 sais "not sync" and nothing is displayed at my tabs.
Oh, and also - I thought I would be able to cast content from my tablet and phone (content that "sits" on them), but how can they do that if they have no server installed?
I'm really lost, getting more and more annyoed with this chromecast - a lot of workarounds for things that should be trivial.
edoson said:
I'm really lost, getting more and more annyoed with this chromecast - a lot of workarounds for things that should be trivial.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What app(s) are you using, and where does the media you're trying to cast to Chromecast live?
As previously announced (some 6 months ago), it finally happened. Seems very stable from the 30 minutes I had to play with it. Opens a lot of opportunities. Funny that it supports Plex better than Plex themselvesf, and free.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp&hl=en
Enjoy...
BubbleUPnP UPnP/DLNA free 1.8.0 with full chromecast 15250 support it's limited to 20/30 minutes of playback.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp&hl=en
If you want more you have to pay €3,49/$4.69 for BubbleUPnP UPnP/DLNA License
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp.unlocker&hl=en
What's New
1.8.0
Finally, full Chromecast support with optional transcoding for playing non natively supported media.
Play your music, videos and photos to your Chromecast, whether located on your Android device, your local network or the cloud!
Playing Chromecast natively supported media is unrestricted in the free version of BubbleUPnP.
Playing transcoded media requires installing BubbleUPnP Server 0.8 on your network, and is limited to 20 minutes per app launch in the free version of BubbleUPnP.
Free for up to 20 minutes of playing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BubbleUPnP free version limitations:
- ads
- Internet streaming with BubbleUPnP Server is limited to 30 minutes per app launch
- Playlist and Library Shuffle are limited to 16 tracks
- downloads limited to batches of maximum 40 tracks
- the local renderer is remotely controllable by external Control Points for 30 mins per app launch
- the local Media Server is not browsable by filesystem (SD Card)
- playing media from external apps is limited to 3 plays per app launch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Spent a bit more time with it and still impressed. I bought a premium version about a year ago, and was completely oblivious that there might be some limitations. Glad to see that app is 100% free and working for Chromecast supported formats.
In their defence, also bought Plex app, and still unable to cast anything. And as I said, it does Plex better than Plex app in my opinion.
Yes I'm very glad I could release Chromecast support.
It has been a long wait since my early tests in August/September.
jasenko said:
Funny that it supports Plex better than Plex themselvesf, and free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain! Plex app works great for me...
mathorv said:
BubbleUPnP UPnP/DLNA free 1.8.0 with full chromecast 15250 support it's limited to 20/30 minutes of playback.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp&hl=en
If you want more you have to pay €3,49/$4.69 for BubbleUPnP UPnP/DLNA License
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp.unlocker&hl=en
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just launched 1.8.0 and the history says
Playing media natively supported by Chromecast is unrestricted in the free version of BubbleUPnP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so I believe the 20/30 minute limit applies only if you need BubbleUPnP Server to transcode content?
bhiga said:
so I believe the 20/30 minute limit applies only if you need BubbleUPnP Server to transcode content?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Media natively supported = MP4, webm, (with supported codecs) and audio files. In this matter you are right it's free, but I have not tried it to be absolutely sure.
Now with BubbleUPnP support, can someone give me some advice? I use BubbleUPnP a lot and it is my favorite app for media.
I have an original firmware Chromecast that has never seen the Internet. I don't want to lose the flexibility of the software potential, but now with BubbleUPnP as well as Google releasing the APIs, I am wondering what the best plan would be.
What would you guys do with your original firmware Chromecast?
xdadevnube said:
Now with BubbleUPnP support, can someone give me some advice? I use BubbleUPnP a lot and it is my favorite app for media.
I have an original firmware Chromecast that has never seen the Internet. I don't want to lose the flexibility of the software potential, but now with BubbleUPnP as well as Google releasing the APIs, I am wondering what the best plan would be.
What would you guys do with your original firmware Chromecast?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would root it. If you don't care about root, sell/trade it to someone who does.
The only thing you lose is some time between a Google OTA release and the corresponding Team Eureka release.
Normal incremental releases don't see much/any functionality breakage.
This one was an exception because of the new SDK and APIs needing to be in-sync across both clients and Chromecasts.
bhiga said:
I would root it. If you don't care about root, sell/trade it to someone who does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS!
If you don't really want root then it's more valuable to someone else than it would be if you allowed it lose it's rootable condition.
Congrats to the BubbleUPnP folks for the added CCast support.
I have not tried it fully yet but to those who are currently using aVia, a switch to Bubble might be a good move.
Especially if you have the Bubble Server running on a PC since you will get the transcoding goodness not available with aVia...
Now if MX Player would add CCast support my local streaming to CCast world would be complete.
bhiga said:
I just launched 1.8.0 and the history says
so I believe the 20/30 minute limit applies only if you need BubbleUPnP Server to transcode content?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read it that way also.
so now is there a way to make srt subs to work?
rkirmeier said:
Please explain! Plex app works great for me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plex app was very slow for me when browsing channels. No issues with BubbleUPnP. Plus I had to pay for a month of premium service just to see how it works with the chromecast. Glad to also see some serious competition.
Thumbs up!
Very stable so far for sending photos to Chromecast, much better than Avia because it leaves the last pic up until it's (more or less) ready to load the next one.
caifaz said:
so now is there a way to make srt subs to work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not currently, but subs will be supported in the next version of the app.
external srt (provided the media server expose them to BubbleUPnP, for video accessed via UPnP) and embedded subs (mostly found in MKV) will be supported.
And it will be done properly, without burning the subs in the video which is horrible (reencode).
bubbleguuum said:
Not currently, but subs will be supported in the next version of the app.
external srt (provided the media server expose them to BubbleUPnP, for video accessed via UPnP) and embedded subs (mostly found in MKV) will be supported.
And it will be done properly, without burning the subs in the video which is horrbile (reencode).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your reply, I'm glad that someone cares!
bubbleguuum said:
Not currently, but subs will be supported in the next version of the app.
external srt (provided the media server expose them to BubbleUPnP, for video accessed via UPnP) and embedded subs (mostly found in MKV) will be supported.
And it will be done properly, without burning the subs in the video which is horrbile (reencode).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of embedded things in MKV, just successfully cast Simpsons from the NAS zonly be joined by di director commentaries- I have no option or means to disable this stream as I would on n pc
Sent from my One using Tapatalk
Hey bubbleguuum,
I tested a file (streamed from Interntet) in 4 different apps today (vGet, LocalCast, BubbleUPnP and Avia). All but Avia were heavily stuttering. The receiver apps looked very similar in the other three so I am guessing, it is a standard implementation of the protocol. Avia on the other hand did some caching magic behind the scenes and the end result was far more pleasing to watch without constant interruptions. I hope next version of BubbleUPnP will also have some magic applied to it.
jasenko said:
Hey bubbleguuum,
I tested a file (streamed from Interntet) in 4 different apps today (vGet, LocalCast, BubbleUPnP and Avia). All but Avia were heavily stuttering. The receiver apps looked very similar in the other three so I am guessing, it is a standard implementation of the protocol. Avia on the other hand did some caching magic behind the scenes and the end result was far more pleasing to watch without constant interruptions. I hope next version of BubbleUPnP will also have some magic applied to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will be magic, but not in this area I'm afraid. It's true that if all 3 apps shows the same UI on the CC, they are using the default media player app. When using Avia, does the video continue to play to the end if you kill Avia (I mean really kill it, not leave it in the background) ? That's for testing the possibility it might proxy the stream.
I just tried BubbleUPnP on the Chromecast. When using the transcoding option, which puts a huge CPU load on the computer, I am unable to seek the transcoded files. When I play Chromecast-supported files, then no transcoding occurs and I can seek just fine.
I wonder if there is a way to seek transcoded files, so one doesn't have to start a video over from the beginning.
Just a FYI for all those who have PlexPass...
Plex sent out a Major Release that has many fixes for CCast users including Direct Play (no Transcoding) of MKV/H.264 L4.1/AAC. (PMS Server 0.9.9.5.411 is required.)
They also updated the Plex Android Apps and they now will show movie preview on your TV (I believe it's just posters) while your browsing for movies in Android.
There are many other little perks including better transcoding in general and I haven't had a chance to test most of the new features yet but just wanted to let you know that CCast Playback of MKV without Transcode does appear to be possible with Plex.
Asphyx said:
Just a FYI for all those who have PlexPass...
Plex sent out a Major Release that has many fixes for CCast users including Direct Play (no Transcoding) of MKV/H.264 L4.1/AAC. (PMS Server 0.9.9.5.411 is required.)
They also updated the Plex Android Apps and they now will show movie preview on your TV (I believe it's just posters) while your browsing for movies in Android.
There are many other little perks including better transcoding in general and I haven't had a chance to test most of the new features yet but just wanted to let you know that CCast Playback of MKV without Transcode does appear to be possible with Plex.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest version of Plex Media Server that I found on their site is 0.9.8.18.290-11b7fdd. Where did you find 0.9.9.5.411?
johnjingle said:
The latest version of Plex Media Server that I found on their site is 0.9.8.18.290-11b7fdd. Where did you find 0.9.9.5.411?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure but the announcement is at https://forums.plex.tv/index.php/topic/62832-plex-media-server/?p=586803
Asphyx said:
Just a FYI for all those who have PlexPass...
Plex sent out a Major Release that has many fixes for CCast users including Direct Play (no Transcoding) of MKV/H.264 L4.1/AAC. (PMS Server 0.9.9.5.411 is required.)
They also updated the Plex Android Apps and they now will show movie preview on your TV (I believe it's just posters) while your browsing for movies in Android.
There are many other little perks including better transcoding in general and I haven't had a chance to test most of the new features yet but just wanted to let you know that CCast Playback of MKV without Transcode does appear to be possible with Plex.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Per Google - https://developers.google.com/cast/docs/media
With Google Cast you have several options for supporting various media types, codecs, and facilities:
Video codecs: H.264 High Profile Level 4.1, 4.2 and 5, VP8
Audio decoding: HE-AAC, LC-AAC, CELT/Opus, MP3, Vorbis
Image formats: BMP, GIF, JPEG, PNG, WEBP
Containers: MP4, WebM
Containers: MPEG-DASH, SmoothStreaming, HTTP Live Streaming (HLS)
Level 1 DRM support: Widevine, PlayReady
Subtitles:
TTML - Timed Text Markup Language
WebVTT - Web Video Text Tracks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So - it certainly looks like the new server is repackaging the supported codec streams into something other than an MKV.
That's an exciting step forward and it may be under Direct Play but are you sure that is the same thing as local casting from your phone?
IOW - does that server run on the Android device or does it require LAN access to a desktop running it?
I confess that lots of Plex still eludes me. I thought that the Plex Media Server was desktop only.
By the way, today's Plex change announcement - https://forums.plex.tv/index.php/topic/60585-plex-for-android/page-3#entry586879
So far as I understand things, it's not transcoding (the codec streams are supported after all) but is still using a desktop computer for transmuxing (because the MKV container is not supported).
EDIT - Vaporware follows:
It would probably be pretty cool if someone were to transmux on the phone and then send things via WebRTC (like tab casting or Koush's mirror for Android). Or to mp4 if WebRTC requires WebM.
Not sure offhand how much work that would be but it wouldn't require a desktop server. And of course would only work with Chromecast-supported codecs.
EarlyMon said:
Not sure but the announcement is at https://forums.plex.tv/index.php/topic/62832-plex-media-server/?p=586803
I didn't have the option to download that because I don't have a Plex Pass subscription. I was really confused until I read that.
Thanks for the info!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I updated the web to 2.0.16 and server to 0.9.9.5 all seems OK. I do have a Plex Pass.
johnjingle said:
The latest version of Plex Media Server that I found on their site is 0.9.8.18.290-11b7fdd. Where did you find 0.9.9.5.411?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im still trying to find PMS Server 0.9.9.5.411.. can someone post a link. i am a plexpass member.
---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------
revdirty said:
Im still trying to find PMS Server 0.9.9.5.411.. can someone post a link. i am a plexpass member.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NVM found it.. on the download page u have to click the show plexpass button then go tto the server downloads.
Wonder how long they are going to hang on to cc features. I bought the app but it is seeming like a waste now considering there are other viable well working free options out there.
Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
shelby04861 said:
Wonder how long they are going to hang on to cc features. I bought the app but it is seeming like a waste now considering there are other viable well working free options out there.
Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, what other cc app transcodes or plays all files with full seek, ff and rw? I haven't found one. BubbleUPnP doesnt allow you to seek on any transcoded files like mkv. Avia doesnt play most files. Not sure what you are using that can do the same as this for cc.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
I see your point but I don't transcoded my movies. I keep them all the same format so it is less taxing on my server because I share my server with my family.
Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
EarlyMon said:
So - it certainly looks like the new server is repackaging the supported codec streams into something other than an MKV.
That's an exciting step forward and it may be under Direct Play but are you sure that is the same thing as local casting from your phone?
IOW - does that server run on the Android device or does it require LAN access to a desktop running it?
I confess that lots of Plex still eludes me. I thought that the Plex Media Server was desktop only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Phone has nothing to do with it at all other than you can run the Plex app and play all media on the server on the mobile device or send it to the CCast and control it ....Local in this case means Local Networked Media such as DLNA. But Plex will make all your content available to you via the Internet even if your not locally connected.
And yes....PMS does run on a Desktop or Server.
Having Plex removes the need to ever keep content on your phone at all since you can see your home media from anywhere there is Internet Access. It also has a Sync function so you can pre-download media to your device for viewing when Internet is not available.
Plex for all intents and purposes is a Home Cloud Netflix like service that can stream all the content you own.
Direct Play in Plex in the past has simply sent the the file to the device without Transcoding.
I spoke to someone at Plex and it may not be direct playing the file YET but it is perhaps Direct Streaming via HTTP which is a new streaming protocol they added. This might suggest it is only container flipping and only works with files that are Codec compatible. But the Transcode Profile does have an Entry for Direct Play for Matroska container.
Two transcoding profile entries have been added for Matroska
Code:
<VideoProfile protocol="http" container="matroska" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" context="streaming">
<Setting name="VideoEncodeFlags" value="-x264opts bframes=3:cabac=1" />
</VideoProfile>
and
Code:
<DirectPlayProfiles>
<VideoProfile container="matroska" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" />
<VideoProfile container="mp4" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" />
<MusicProfile container="mp4" codec="aac" />
<MusicProfile container="mp3" codec="mp3" />
<PhotoProfile container="jpeg,gif,bmp,png" />
</DirectPlayProfiles>
The Media Types listed on that Google link are what the CCast is capable of decoding via Hardware. That does not mean you can't make a Player App to load on the CCast that can Software decode other types especially other containers where the Codecs are compatible with the hardware. Roku Hardware doesn't natively support Matroska container either it is played via Software decode.
I'm going to assume that the Direct Play entry will not work until the CCast Player can handle the Container via Software. Until then it will use the Streaming Profile. SO it may be setting up the Direct Play profile for something else in the Future.
To all of those who can't find the new version you need to be a Plex Pass Member, Go to Plex.tv, Sign in, Go to Downloads and select show Plex Pass downloads.
On the Android side it's all in the Play Store and the features will be there or not based on your signing into PlexPass
shelby04861 said:
Wonder how long they are going to hang on to cc features. I bought the app but it is seeming like a waste now considering there are other viable well working free options out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other options out there (BubbleUPnP and PlayOn being the closest to mirroring what Plex does) do not have all the features Plex does.
Some however have features that Plex does NOT have such as playing content stored on your Mobile device locally. Plex removes the need to ever store content on your mobile device since it works as a Home Cloud for Media available anywhere you have access to the Net.
And while Bubble and others may be able to send ON UNIT content to the CCast it won't do it unless the Source is CCast compatible.
Bubble does have the ability to transcode if the content is coming from the Bubble Server (on the Desktop) but I'm not sure it will transcode ON UNIT LOCAL files when sending to CCast. Perhaps it does but it would require sending the file from your phone to your desktop then sending it to CCast. You should ask the Dev for Bubble to clarify this they post here regularly and are very responsive to their Users. (I have Bubble running myself on the same server as my Plex. and It's a very good alternative for Plex.)
Apps like aVia and Real Player are all very limited to playing content either on a cloud or locally on the the device.
Great if you have everything you want to view locally or synced to the cloud but hardly gives you the TBs of data that my Plex makes available to me.
Plex is perhaps a bit pricey right now since CCast support requires PlexPass but there is a way around that using Bubble UPnP until such time as CCast support no longer requires PlexPass.
Set up the Plex Server and also set up BubbleUPnP and let it aggregate the Plex Media Server library.
Then use the BubbleUPnP on your mobile device to send to CCast.
Bubble Server will transcode for you and you can still use the Plex for Android App (Paid app like aVia) for viewing on your mobile device if you like.
Once the CCast options go public you can decide which interface you like better.
Right now I have PlayOn, BubbleUPnP and Plex server all running on the same machine.
I rarely use anything aside from Plex since I have Plex Pass.
[EDIT/UPDATE]
Ok just went to Plex and found out that Direct Play is NOT currently supported the direct play entry was left in the profile by mistake.
It will however stream and has added a new streaming protocol that allows MKV to play without a heavy transcoding thread being needed for sources that are codec compatible (H.264/AAC)
The Player must support the DirectPlay (which may happen in future) and if it can't it will kick it back to the transcoder for streaming.
All direct Play is determined by the Player not the server so if it tries to direct play and fails it fallsback to the transcoder.
Bottom Line though is that Matroska is now supported in profile and will stream much better provided the codecs do not need changing.
And as with any container, Multiple Audio Tracks will always require transcoding to select which Audio track to play. So unless you want the first Audio Track you will probably still be using the full on Transcode.
All of this can change in the future if and when they update the CCast Player App to support more containers via Direct Play and Track Selection on the Client side.
But they are not there yet.
@Asphyx - many thanks for the detailed information and your legwork on this, I really appreciate it.
Ok, so - fwiw, ffmpeg can do transcoding or transmuxing, and an example file that can take 10 minutes to transcode will transmux in a very few seconds. And it can do it on the fly.
I mention that because while Plex may have rolled their own, it's usually less risk to deploy with commercial off-the-shelf solutions and focus on integration.
And my point is that either way, transmuxing to a stream would be fast, efficient, effective and highly supportable.
While I agree that a custom player could deal with an MKV container directly, and I don't doubt that someone will try it, that's a higher risk approach.
I'm using the classical definition of the risk factor here -
risk = (complexity / maturity)
Having a more complex player without a track record = high/low = very high risk.
I think that you nailed it, they're using a newer http transport they've implemented and I'm willing to bet 100 quatloos that it's MPEG-DASH, same as Hulu on Chromecast.
That approach would allow them to go with a single function receiver based on MPEG-DASH, ergo less complex, with a well known method, ergo more mature, with subsidiary risk from Google support in the Chromecast firmware. And that last component, while unknown because outside their volume of control, is accompanied by high risk mitigation because Google has at least one major player that will hold their feet to the fire if they screw that up.
Given that Plex is already a highly functional desktop server, I'm not sure that any other deployment model would make as much sense.
As for offloading significant work to the Chromecast, I don't disagree that it can be done, but I will note that when Koush deployed an H.264 decoder in Javascript, using the mature broadway.js method, the result was immediate heat death of his Chromecast. That's anecdotal but absent other data, I'd say that's a strong enough case to tread carefully where this MediaTek processor is concerned.
Anyway, if we combine our ideas to the single-point approach using MPEG-DASH, and looking at the work involved for sorting that out, I wouldn't say that Plex is dragging their feet.
Genius may be instantaneous but quality takes time.
Edit/PS - note that using a black box component such as ffmpeg reduces code work whether transcoding or transmuxing is required. Either way, you form a command string, dispatch it and stream the result. Added complexity to evaluate whether to transcode or just transmux is very minor compared to other approaches.
EarlyMon said:
@Asphyx - many thanks for the detailed information and your legwork on this, I really appreciate it.
Ok, so - fwiw, ffmpeg can do transcoding or transmuxing, and an example file that can take 10 minutes to transcode will transmux in a very few seconds. And it can do it on the fly.
I mention that because while Plex may have rolled their own, it's less risk for to usually deploy with commercial off-the-shelf solutions and focus on integration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually they may have renamed the file but I am pretty sure they are using FFMPEG as their Transcoder base with some extra wrapping to make decisions on which format and settings are required for their Profile system.
EarlyMon said:
While I agree that a custom player could deal with an MKV container directly, and I don't doubt that someone will try it, that's a higher risk approach.
I'm using the classical definition of the risk factor here -
risk = (complexity / maturity)
Having a more complex player without a track record = high/low = very high risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does require a more complex player but I do believe at some point that is going to happen on the CCast side.
To do things like subtitle overlay and Audio track selection properly, this is always best done on the client side. Codec support is really the only stumbling block to realizing this. Since you can't load codec support into the CCast itself and to add them all into a player would be a ridiculously bloated app, A public codec repository (similar to Windows Media) would be the best bet for that. and in THAT respect I agree not likely anyone but google would take up such a project..
But that said...
While most devs are getting their code around the DIAL and Control protocols at some point they will have that stable and efficient and all that would be left would be to add Player side features such as Track Selection and possibly Software decoding for some containers where Codec is not an issue.
If I had to guess I would bet someone like MX Player Developers would be the first to make something like this happen since their Android Player already supports this type of functionality and it shouldn't be too hard to port that into a CCast compatible implementation.
EarlyMon said:
I think that you nailed it, they're using a newer http transport they've implemented and I'm willing to bet 100 quatloos that it's MPEG-DASH, same as Hulu on Chromecast.
That approach would allow them to go with a single function receiver based on MPEG-DASH, ergo less complex, with a well known method, ergo more mature, with subsidiary risk from Google support in the Chromecast firmware. And that last component, while unknown because outside their volume of control, is accompanied by high risk mitigation because Google has at least one major player that will hold their feet to the fire if they screw that up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently the Plex Player supports HLS, DASH and whatever this new HTTP protocol is as streaming methods with Direct Play for Native MP4/H.264/AAC.
I neglected to add there is some movement on the Music and Picture front as well but I have not had a chance to check that yet.
EarlyMon said:
Given that Plex is already a highly functional desktop server, I'm not sure that any other deployment model would make as much sense.
As for offloading significant work to the Chromecast, I don't disagree that it can be done, but I will note that when Koush deployed an H.264 decoder in Javascript, using the mature broadway.js method, the result was immediate heat death of his Chromecast. That's anecdotal but absent other data, I'd say that's a strong enough case to tread carefully where this MediaTek processor is concerned.
Anyway, if we combine our ideas to the single-point approach using MPEG-DASH, and looking at the work involved for sorting that out, I wouldn't say that Plex is dragging their feet.
Genius may be instantaneous but quality takes time.
Edit/PS - note that using a black box component such as ffmpeg reduces code work whether transcoding or transmuxing is required. Either way, you form a command string, dispatch it and stream the result. Added complexity to evaluate whether to transcode or just transmux is very minor compared to other approaches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well right now the goal with Plex Devs seems to be to make any content work via Transcode if need be because that is the main role of PMS.
For most devices with mature Player Apps the Transcoder is rarely used because the Player Apps don't require it and can Direct Play different containers and codecs.
There is one team for Plex Media Server and another for Transcoding in general. (a Third is working on the CCast player specifically.)
They are focused on making transcoding work for everything and then (as an Afterthought) looking for ways to tweak the profile to not transcode where the device can handle it. (Basically it assumes it will have to transcode everything and then the profile will make exceptions to direct play.) the rest of the profile merely tells the transcoder what settings to use.
Which is why I don't expect any software decoding anytime soon, but they have considered it for future once they have everything working on CCast the way it is from the transcoding side.
Lets not forget Plex's goals are not specific to CCast they are just adding it as a target so their goals are not as much about CCast as someone like aVia and MX Player would be which is why I think they would be the first to create these types of Mature Decoders before Plex.
And who knows once someone does it wouldn't take much to license and load the CCast player code to add that functionality.
With most things like this I find once one takes the time to do it the others soon follow to not be left behind...
But I TOTALLY AGREE on the issue may be your CCast bursting into flames if not done correctly because heat does seem to be the one design flaw in CCast hardware.
I'd doubt anyone looking at platform independence would go with HLS, I think it's just too Apple centric. But as you say, Plex already supports it.
I think that the (relatively) new SDK refined MPEG-DASH support so I could see them calling that their new http method.
Remember, the chrome.socket method exists but is not exposed. Without that, no matter how good a programmer you are, your hands may be well tied as to how much of a private transport you can build.
If socket primitives existed a home network could go down to RDP or even UDP and really scream performance compared to anything you could achieve with http.
Anyway, I hear you, there may be something private and newer than MPEG-DASH there - but for all the reasons you note that this is one component of their business model, I can't imagine why they'd go for a higher risk, higher cost solution to do the same thing. Of course, that's just my opinion, worth every penny you paid for it.
Putting everything, or as much as possible, into the config files is simply a best practice.
Make the app data driven and offload maintenance and feature support to the config writer/parser subsystem.
I say "simply a best practice" because it is, but the guys that didn't figure that out couldn't compete with those that did/do.
As for just doing transcoding now, that's simply another best practice.
If they have a new server method and a new config parser, that's plenty to deploy.
Make sure that works, then deploy transmuxing as an incremental refinement. Even if the devs believe it's ready, history has proven what happens if you bite off too much with a release.
Sadly for us, too few devs get that.
I really don't think that a right way to offload more work to flame-free Chromecast will be found. Even if such a thing could exist (which I more than really doubt) I just don't see the incentive for anyone to do it.
Btw - I don't know if you've noticed this but if you go to a site with embedded MP4 videos, vGet will cast that or play it locally to MoboPlayer, MX Player will complain that it's an unknown format.
I agree that MX is a great player and ahead in a lot of areas but I would say that caution is in order predicting anything in this area, again, just imo.
---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------
PS - as I'm sure you know, everyone including Google is chomping at the bit to get H.265 and VP9 happening.
So existing code and methods have to be supportable, maintainable and inexpensive enough - everything today is on its way to becoming a legacy method.
Given the processing requirements for VEHC, I can't see that happening on the existing Chromecast.
And if that's what a Chromecast 2 will support, and I'm betting it will, I can't see estorica being built by anyone at this point for the existing Chromecast.
Even if you're not in the market for 4k video, I can see the attraction of a more condensed network stream to support 1080p.
Personally, I expect that to hit the front burner before other transcoding and closed caption support does. (edit - Wrong! LOL see next post)
Asphyx said:
Bubble does have the ability to transcode if the content is coming from the Bubble Server (on the Desktop) but I'm not sure it will transcode ON UNIT LOCAL files when sending to CCast. Perhaps it does but it would require sending the file from your phone to your desktop then sending it to CCast. You should ask the Dev for Bubble to clarify this they post here regularly and are very responsive to their Users. (I have Bubble running myself on the same server as my Plex. and It's a very good alternative for Plex.)
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BubbleUPnP Server can transcode *any* media that Android BubbleUPnP can access. That applies to local Android media managed by the app, but as well any external media sent from third party apps to BubbleUPnP.
And for the next release of BubbleUPnP / BubbleUPnP Server, there are major improvements, such as: proper subtitle support (and not of the crappy burning subs in video kind, that everyone is doing), seek in transcoded videos, audio and video track selection, and many transcoding fails fixed.
Moreover, BubbleUPnP Server transcodes video and/or audio tracks only if necessary.
bubbleguuum said:
BubbleUPnP Server can transcode *any* media that Android BubbleUPnP can access. That applies to local Android media managed by the app, but as well any external media sent from third party apps to BubbleUPnP.
And for the next release of BubbleUPnP / BubbleUPnP Server, there are major improvements, such as: proper subtitle support (and not of the crappy burning subs in video kind, that everyone is doing), seek in transcoded videos, audio and video track selection, and many transcoding fails fixed.
Moreover, BubbleUPnP Server transcodes video and/or audio tracks only if necessary.
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Way to go!
EarlyMon said:
I'd doubt anyone looking at platform independence would go with HLS, I think it's just too Apple centric. But as you say, Plex already supports it.
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Well the Plex folks are supporting Apple so I suspect they need to support all things Apple.
As for what they might dore Transcode vs Player based it will depend on the end results. Many are running Plex on NAS and other low power units where even transmuxing is a Task.
In the end there is only so much you can do on the server side and have to look at the client side for solutions. Thats all I'm getting at. Subtitles being a prime example. Multi Language and Audio track selection being another.
bubbleguuum said:
BubbleUPnP Server can transcode *any* media that Android BubbleUPnP can access. That applies to local Android media managed by the app, but as well any external media sent from third party apps to BubbleUPnP.
And for the next release of BubbleUPnP / BubbleUPnP Server, there are major improvements, such as: proper subtitle support (and not of the crappy burning subs in video kind, that everyone is doing), seek in transcoded videos, audio and video track selection, and many transcoding fails fixed.
Moreover, BubbleUPnP Server transcodes video and/or audio tracks only if necessary.
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Click to collapse
Forgive me if I misrepresented Bubble there. I was under the impression that Bubble required Server (on a PC) to be running in order to transcode. And if you simply streamed from Bubble Android to CCast without that Server it would not transcode. Either that Changed or I was misinformed.
Happy to see you support Client side Subtitle Overlay and Audio Track selection. That is the only proper way to do those operation which is why I don't understand why everyone else seems intent on doing it on the server side. My guess is lack of knowing Android and Mobile Coding on their part.
In conclusion I will say this...
The Dev who makes the best CCast Loadable Player App could make a lot of money licensing that app to other developers to use in their Projects.
Asphyx said:
Forgive me if I misrepresented Bubble there. I was under the impression that Bubble required Server (on a PC) to be running in order to transcode. And if you simply streamed from Bubble Android to CCast without that Server it would not transcode. Either that Changed or I was misinformed.
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Yes the server is required on PC for transcoding. There's no transcoding done at all on Android.
What I was saying is that it can also transcode Android local stored media.
But apperently I misundertood your original statement where you wondered in the app could transcode itself: it can't.
Asphyx said:
Happy to see you support Client side Subtitle Overlay and Audio Track selection. That is the only proper way to do those operation which is why I don't understand why everyone else seems intent on doing it on the server side. My guess is lack of knowing Android and Mobile Coding on their part.
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Click to collapse
Audio track selection requires at least remuxing in a new container and possily transcoding if the track is not compatible.
bubbleguuum said:
Yes the server is required on PC for transcoding. There's no transcoding done at all on Android.
What I was saying is that it can also transcode Android local stored media.
But apperently I misundertood your original statement where you wondered in the app could transcode itself: it can't.
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Click to collapse
Not hard since I wasn't very clear LOL
It is transcoding from android but only if you have the server running on PC!
bubbleguuum said:
Audio track selection requires at least remuxing in a new container and possily transcoding if the track is not compatible.
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Click to collapse
Even in the case of MKV/AAC where Multiple Audio Tracks are embedded?
I understand it for unsupported formats like AC3 and DHT but if there is a stereo AAC and 5.1 AAC you shouldn't have to remux if the Player does client side track selection.
I'm thinking along the lines of what VLC does which granted is far more complex of a player due to the fact it's years in the making and has a full blown PC to power it.
Updated - This is a how to on Casting Xbmc from Computer to TV for Free using the Chrome Browser. No more player core factory file needed and seems to play all formats including Live Streams.
http://youtu.be/4tm7-micx1s Instructional Video
Step 1. Go into Chrome Browser and add the Google Cast Extension at
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/google-cast/boadgeojelhgndaghljhdicfkmllpafd?hl=en
Step 2. Download and install XBMC Windows version 13.1 Gotham at
http://xbmc.org/download/
Step 3. Demonstration
Start Chromecast
Open Chrome Browser.....Hit Google Cast Button....Cast this Tab to Beta-Click down arrow on far right.....Cast Entire Screen-Experimental.....Click your Chromecast......Click Yes to Screen Sharing Request.
Start XBMC
Start your show and Chromecast automatically finds the Chrome Browser and plays the video on your Big TV.
Good Luck!
This should play anything that plays on-computer. However it should be noted that it adds to CPU load on the computer as content is being recompressed on-the-fly and sent to Chromecast. Also, the quality of the image sent to Chromecast will be affected by your desktop resolution. Tab/Desktop casting gets iffy above 720p.
its a quick and dirty workaround but unfortunately the Cast a Screen option does not work for systems than have more than one screen.
It will cast all the screens at once and does not let you select one or the other.
XBMC really needs to add CCast support to their system.
Mac
Could someone with a Mac try this and let me know if it works. Thanks
Did anyone try this solution from computer to TV. Did it work okay or was there lag? Just trying to get some feedback. Thanks
vincent1964 said:
Did anyone try this solution from computer to TV. Did it work okay or was there lag? Just trying to get some feedback. Thanks
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No it definitely works but you are not getting full frame rate and your probably also really stressing the proc of the computer you're using...
This is just casting the desktop, a standard Chromecast capability that's nothing to do with XBMC. Performance will likely be poor for most people, and it puts a heavy load on your desktop CPU.
Ok, sorry this wasn't useful to everyone.
UOTE=DJames1;53633579]This is just casting the desktop, a standard Chromecast capability that's nothing to do with XBMC. Performance will likely be poor for most people, and it puts a heavy load on your desktop CPU.
Move along, nothing to see here...[/QUOTE]
No need to get personal. It is a valid point. This method requires better than average network conditions and computer performance.
To summarize, this method...
+ Is easier to set up than messing with playercorefactory
+ Supports anything XBMC can play on the computer
- Requires good network condition, or there may skipping or reduced frame rate
- Requires good computer performance, or there may skipping or reduced frame rate
- Computer cannot be used for other tasks during operation
- Limited to 720p, also may be scaled if desktop/tab resolution is not 720p
Lets also be clear about something here....
All this talk about methodology to stream XBMC is really just limited to the Video Add Ons that stream web based channel content.
You can already stream all the local Library content to CCast using Yatse or any DLNA content player with CCast support like aVia.Both are in app purchases to get the feature but work like a charm.
What you don't get is transcoding which XBMC does not do no matter what you do....
This method simply uses Chrome to transcode (and badly I might add) whatever appears on the XBMC screen.
It works but it is similar to using a screwdriver to hammer in a Nail!
A Hammer would be better....
People mention Plex because it too has Video Channels you can add to it....Problem is not as many channels as are available for XBMC but then again since XBMC has moved to a new codebase (Gotham) a whole slew of channels have broken anyway!
If we really want to come up with a useful solution here what would be the best thing going forward would be to code a Converter that can take the Channel information from an XBMC Channel and convert it for use in Plex...
Plex does do transcoding and supports CCast which XBMC doesn't do and from my conversations with the Devs over there NEVER WILL!
They are simply not interested in supporting CCast and Transcode is not what they consider a core goal!
Thats one of the reasons Plex exists at all!
XBMC Dev's refusal to implement Transcode....It was needed for their fork of XBMC (which became PHT Plex Home Theater) and so they created PMS (Plex Media Server)
I love XBMC and have it installed on a few dedicated HTPCs here....
But without direct CCast support it's only useful as a direct HDMI connect project!
It is a frontend for an HTPC and thats all they ever intend it to ever be!
So if you really want to use XBMC you should start looking into building a cheap HTPC to run it....
If you don't skimp too much on the Power and make a machine capable of transcoding without breaking a sweat, you can also install PMS and get the best of both worlds on one machine!
Either that or hound the hell out of the developer of Yatse and get him to make the Add On Support work...it works on the Android unit directly but not to the CCast.
Hi,
I have tried on the fly transcoding through Plex, Bubbleupnp and VLC. The truth is it works ok but so much of the quality is lost you are better of with a wire.
vincent1964 said:
Hi,
I have tried on the fly transcoding through Plex, Bubbleupnp and VLC. The truth is it works ok but so much of the quality is lost you are better of with a wire.
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Click to collapse
Still much better quality than this method and it does give you remote control which is not possible using Tab Casting.
I totally disagree. You can get 720 with this method versus before flat screen quality with on the fly transcoding. Is your computer outdated?
Asphyx said:
Still much better quality than this method and it does give you remote control which is not possible using Tab Casting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vincent1964 said:
I totally disagree. You can get 720 with this method versus before flat screen quality with on the fly transcoding. Is your computer outdated?
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Click to collapse
No my computer is just fine and I get 1080P with full surround sound from Plex....So I don't know why your thinking 720p Stereo is better than that....
Are you talking about playing from Xbmc? You made this mistake the last time we talked also. Are you sure you even know what on the fly transcoding is?
Asphyx said:
No my computer is just fine and I get 1080P with full surround sound from Plex....So I don't know why your thinking 720p Stereo is better than that....
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Click to collapse
Xbmc mobile to chromecast is what i am looking for.
Sent from my GT-I9082 using XDA Free mobile app
vincent1964 said:
Are you talking about playing from Xbmc? You made this mistake the last time we talked also. Are you sure you even know what on the fly transcoding is?
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Click to collapse
No I'm talking about Channels from Plex!
XBMC channels is the only thing this is good for and you would probably get better results on screen just going to the sites themselves.
This method you are using at BEST gets 20 FPS and minimal Stereo sound where some of the sites the XBMC channels use sometimes have better versions with Surround Sound,,,,So Yes your method works....But it's a poor way to transcode an XBMC output.
XBMC does NO TRANSCODING PERIOD! Did you read my post regarding all of this?
Okay, Of course then that's how you are getting 1080p. You are just viewing plex channels and are not doing any transcoding. That's what I thought all along. I was talking about using Xbmc and VLC to do on the fly transcoding.
Hi Vicent
I was hoping you may be able to help on one of your previous methods of Xbmc from computer to chromecast using bluestack
Im trying to use Bubbleupnp but I get the message Failed to connect to Google Play Services for casting- network error
I've downloaded the chromecast app on bluestack but i get the message "no chromecast found on bluestack" it seems it not searching my network which has two chromecast on
any help would be appreciated
Thank you
vincent1964 said:
Okay, Of course then that's how you are getting 1080p. You are just viewing plex channels and are not doing any transcoding. That's what I thought all along. I was talking about using Xbmc and VLC to do on the fly transcoding.
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Vincent you really need to read what I'm saying.....
All of these channels (XBMC and PLEX) are nothing more than Metadata menu creators that take information from a publicly available internet website (either via RSS, XML or Direct DB read), And create a list of links to go to and view the content.
You can get everything you think you are getting now without the need to run XBMC (or Plex for that matter) by simply going to the website for that content DIRECTLY..and then you have the option of casting a tab if you have to or in some cases those sites will have Chromecast support already in their Player (see ESPN who uses JW Player that now has CCast support natively).
You will get just as good a quality as you think you are getting from XBMC (or Plex) with screen casting and in cases where CCast is supported, even BETTER quality as no transcoding is needed at all!
I would LOVE IT if XBMC supported CCast....I just wish everyone who wants it to work with CCast would get on XBMC Dev's case and get them to implement it.
I sympathize with the Cord Cutters need to get channels in an easy to use interface on a CCast...
But we would all be better off if we would all focus more on getting the channels you want working on a product that DOES support the CCast...
Or getting XBMC to get with the program and support the desires of it's user base!