Database Develop

[OPINION] Do not overcharge battery!

Hi all!
I was browsing through Samsung Galaxy S's Android Development Section when I saw this:
"11. Do NOT overcharge
--Why, when, where: Almost all new batteries have an overcharging protection. This means that the protection that is built into the battery will not let it charge to 100%. This is a feature, not a bug! This will help prolong your battery life while also keeping it safe from overheating/explosion/etc. Do not try to trick it and unplug and plug again until you see 100%, just get used to the fact that you can't have 100% battery anymore and live with it, or you risk destroying your battery."
posted by user "shantzu"
here:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=939752
I did "calibrate" my battery many times lately by unplugging it when charging and the replugging it. But I sure know I wont do it anymore! It's your choice whether or not you wanna do it!
I just wanted you to know this! Hope I've been helpful!

Cool story bro
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA Premium App

pgill34 said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1, blablabla (sorry msg needed to be +10 characters, but it's more now and more and more and more )

eXtink said:
+1, blablabla (sorry msg needed to be +10 characters, but it's more now and more and more and more )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didnt say this. I just quoted and I said that I wont charge my phone to 100% with the plug-unplug way. So if you take my advise do so, if you don't want to take it please stop posting ****!

vladstercr said:
I didnt say this. I just quoted and I said that I wont charge my phone to 100% with the plug-unplug way. So if you take my advise do so, if you don't want to take it please stop posting ****!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think he was posting ****. He just wanted to post "+1" (as in "me too"), but needed to respect the minimum character limit for a post.
Badly worded, but it doesnt look like he was making fun of you or anything.
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk

I love this thread already
Isn't calibrating the battery all about fixing an Android bug?
Anyway, this reminds me, the Milestone overstates the full charge mV and underestimates the low battery mV.
So, if Battery Monitor Widget reports that I have 4230mV when it's fully charge and plugged in... it's really only 4170mV.
When it's reporting empty at 3200mV, it's really at 3300mV.
http://www.android-hilfe.de/root-ha...ku-infos-ladekurven-leistungsverbraucher.html
Externally measured or indication of the internal voltage measurement
3.30 volts / 3.20 volts
4.12 volts / 4.18 volts
That is, the stone over-estimated the voltage at the battery is full by ~ 60 mV and underestimated the power of up to 100 mV with an empty battery. The intent is well-battery protection (which is good too). It is pretended that 3.0 and 4.2 volts to discharge until it is loaded. In reality, there are more 3.1 volts and 4.15 volts (which by the way of battery manufacturers also better unanimous opinion!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently, we are still protected even if we do calibrate the battery.
I'm pretty sure that Payce at android-hilfe actually took that battery out of his phone so I'll go with that.

Thanks for sharing

Good article

Over charging doesn't effect Lithium Ion batterys;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

DannyDroid said:
Over charging doesn't effect Lithium Ion batterys;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gee thank you! I just wanted to start correcting this non-sense. The "overcharging" affects Lithium-Polymer batteries, not Lithium-Ion, so calibrating battery is HARMLESS!!!!
If you have a Samsung Galaxy S then you have this possibility.
I think we can close this thread.

Actually you can overcharge (any) battery, charging it to the higher voltages for higher capacity when used daily (as cell phones).
However it lowers total lifetime of the battery, but you can get more battery time.
But this isn't the cell phones' thing. IMHO charging circuit + circuits in battery won't allow you to do this. So you can't really overcharge.
This "calibrating" is even suggested by notebook manufacturers - you have to do full discharge -> full charge to set the voltage "limits" for 0% and 100%, so the battery indicator can estimate the remaining battery % precisely.
Just few quotations from http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries to support my opinions:
"In terms of optimal longevity, a charge voltage limit of 3.92V/cell works best but the capacity would be low."
"Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use? Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the lithium-ion battery is full, a correctly functioning charger will discontinue the charge and will only engage when the battery voltage drops to a low level."
"Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery."

The milestone has a Lithium-ion polymer battery which looks like they do suffer from over charging.
"It is important to note that trickle charging is not acceptable for lithium batteries; Li-ion chemistry cannot accept an overcharge without causing damage to the cell, possibly plating out lithium metal and becoming hazardous.[5] Most manufacturers claim a maximum and minimum voltage of 4.23 and 3.0 volts per cell. Taking any cell outside these limits can reduce the cell's capacity and ability to deliver full rated current.
Most dedicated lithium polymer chargers use a charge timer for safety; this cuts the charge after a predefined time (typically 90 minutes)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery
Someone will have to dig deeper into the OEM charger to see if it has some sort of cut off.

the thing with timer seems pretty weird to me. Try charging your battery with very little current - why should you cut it off after 90 minutes? Makes no sense to me, but I'm not an engineer so there may be a fact I overlook.
At the same time with noting overcharge will damage battery cell you should point out that there is no way to overcharge the battery without charging the battery CELLS itselves (not whole battery pack with its circuitry) with your custom charger without monitoring voltage/current.
However - yes, you're right, battery cells can be damaged.

I assume it would be the charging unit itself (i.e. the plug) which as the 90min cut off.
Charging via a USB takes ages (supplied at 5V) and without the "plug" it prob wouldn't have a cut off so the chances of over charging would be higher but would require leaving it in for longer.
I'm not sure, I'm only a first year electriton and haven't touched on batterys.

DannyDroid said:
Charging via a USB takes ages (supplied at 5V)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "plug" is just 230V~ -> 5V- transformer so the only difference is current, supplied voltage is the same. Btw I leave my phone in cradle for extended periods of time (24h+) and nothing bad happened. When it's at 100% it stops charging so I don't expect anything to happen.
Same with notebooks - it charges to 100% and stops. E.g. HP does stop charging until battery level drops to 90% so it won't "trickle charge" or do many 99%->100% cycles. Dunno how does the phone charging work, because it says 100% all the time. This can be possibly a bad thing

3500mAh battery

Hello, I recently purchased the 3500mAh 3.7V extended battery for my dinc. Can someone tell me what voltage I should charge it up to? I am not seeing amazing results, so I believe that my battery is not completely calibrated. I did run it through multiple complete uses (fully charged, to drain, and repeat) so I don't know what the problem could be. Thanks.
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda app-developers app

What were you expecting for battery life? Depending on the brand it may not be a real 3500mAh battery. One full discharge and recharge should be enough to calibrate the software though Li-Ion batteries have no memory in them. Check this out. It mentions extending the life on the battery but is still interesting stuff.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries.
In fact that whole site has a lot of info on batteries.

Hey tiny. Well, from what I was reading about this battery, users got two full days with heavy usage (they described heavy usage to be streaming music, surfing the Web, testing, playing games, etc.) but, this is what I get, and it's the best I got (3 hours display,half an hour talk time). I even went down to gb to see if it would be good, but I didn't see much of a difference. And I did look at battery university a bit, but I didn't delve into the material. I'll check that link out.
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda app-developers app

ra9b said:
Hey tiny. Well, from what I was reading about this battery, users got two full days with heavy usage (they described heavy usage to be streaming music, surfing the Web, testing, playing games, etc.) but, this is what I get, and it's the best I got (3 hours display,half an hour talk time). I even went down to gb to see if it would be good, but I didn't see much of a difference. And I did look at battery university a bit, but I didn't delve into the material. I'll check that link out.
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that's pretty abysmal for a 3500mAh battery, especially in a lower consuming device like the incredible. How does that compare to your stock battery? It should be at least 70-80% better assuming that it's not really a 3500mAh battery. It may be a false claim that it's 3500mAh from the makers. I think 4 hours screen time on 3500mAh should be more reasonable for about 35 hours total time. I usually get about 1-3 hours screen time over a period of 10-30 hours total on my Galaxy Nexus. On my Inc on CM7 with stock battery my usage allowed me to go up to 30 hours, usually 20 on a charge with 30% left I think but it's been a while and I don't know the screen on time. It might have been about 2 hours.

tiny4579 said:
Wow, that's pretty abysmal for a 3500mAh battery, especially in a lower consuming device like the incredible. How does that compare to your stock battery? It should be at least 70-80% better assuming that it's not really a 3500mAh battery. It may be a false claim that it's 3500mAh from the makers. I think 4 hours screen time on 3500mAh should be more reasonable for about 35 hours total time. I usually get about 1-3 hours screen time over a period of 10-30 hours total on my Galaxy Nexus. On my Inc on CM7 with stock battery my usage allowed me to go up to 30 hours, usually 20 on a charge with 30% left I think but it's been a while and I don't know the screen on time. It might have been about 2 hours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's why I am worried. And actually, my stock battery usually have me like a day with good use. When you put it in perspective, my 1300mAh battery gives me about 67% of the battery life that I get from a 3500 mAh battery. Is there any way I can measure the power of the battery? I take physics, so even finding a way to calculate the current, voltage, and/or resistance of the battery would help.
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda app-developers app

Check batteryuniversity.com, they have a link for calculating the actual capacity, or if you know your model which you should you can Google for actual capacity. Someone probably has posted capacities of a battery.

just going to add that in my experience(I have 3 Dincs), just a 3500 mah battery isn;t going to give you amazing results on it;s own. power management on the Dinc requires some attention. i find that charging the battery in the phone doesn;t necessarily yield a full charge, especially if you are charging it while the OS is loaded(topping it off). so my strategy has been to run my batteries down to empty,replace with a fresh one and charge them in an external battery charger-but not just any charger but a RAVpower universal charger. I have an "official" Seido charger and that doesn;t charge my batteries fully either even though it thinks it has by showing a green LED. I know some people will say that batteries shouldn;t be treated like this and that they don;t suffer from memory effect so you are free to not do what I am doing.
the biggest things that use up the battery is the 3G radio and the Display so of course if you are just using your phone to do stuff non stop of course you'd be lucky to get 4-6 hours of usage. Even if you have your phone doing useful stuff over wifi like checking for email in the background, it does consume battery. but with my phone in Airplane mode(like overseas where I would have no 3G or Wifi), I;ve gotten a couple of days of Standby time.
other stuff I have done is remove any apks in memory that might be consuming cpu cycles and memory. less is more on a limited platform like the Dinc. biggest cpu hogs on my phone believe it or not is Facebook and Amazon App Store(my guess is that it;s periodically checking my licensing for some apps that I got from them). it;s not uncommon for me to boot up the phone and for the battery to go from 100% to 90% in 5 minutes as the phone is initializing and doing whatever it;s doing. then slowly deplete from from 90% to 80% in 8 hours or so.

tekweezle said:
it;s not uncommon for me to boot up the phone and for the battery to go from 100% to 90% in 5 minutes as the phone is initializing and doing whatever it;s doing. then slowly deplete from from 90% to 80% in 8 hours or so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your battery gauge is lying to you (and it's not such a bad thing)

So, I looked through all of battery university, but i still have 1 unanswered question. The website states that most Li-ion batteries should be charged to a mximum voltage of 4.20 V. However, does this apply to all batteries? I mean, my extended battery is a 3.7V battery. Was the htc dinc original battery a 3.7 v battery? If the voltages are different, then wouldn't the 3.7V battery need to be charged to a higher voltage so that the potential difference would equal that of the original battery and thus store the same charge? (theoretically)

ra9b said:
So, I looked through all of battery university, but i still have 1 unanswered question. The website states that most Li-ion batteries should be charged to a mximum voltage of 4.20 V. However, does this apply to all batteries? I mean, my extended battery is a 3.7V battery. Was the htc dinc original battery a 3.7 v battery? If the voltages are different, then wouldn't the 3.7V battery need to be charged to a higher voltage so that the potential difference would equal that of the original battery and thus store the same charge? (theoretically)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could check wake lock detector on the play store to see what apps may be causing a partial wake lock... I know gmail and uccw cam cause a decent wake lock time
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

zachf714 said:
You could check wake lock detector on the play store to see what apps may be causing a partial wake lock... I know gmail and uccw cam cause a decent wake lock time
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did check that and I didny find anything very abnormal, since I already greenified those apps.
Sent from my Droid Incredible using xda app-developers app

Optimal Battery Charging %?

So with my phone I like to use it until the battery gets very low (sub 5%) so I can aggregate battery stats to see how much I get on a full charge. I have heard that this is bad for the battery though and it should not be allowed to fully discharge very often in order to prolong the battery life.
I was wondering what is the lowest % I should let the battery get to before I should charge again (10%, 20%, 30% etc) to maintain the best battery life and performance.

I suggest just charging your phone every night and not worrying about it unless you plan on keeping it for over 2 years.

Optimal battery percentage is 40%-60%. But heat has a much higher impact on longevity. Mostly the battery will protect itself from to much damage.

Why would optimal be 40% to 60% and not 40% to 100%?

orlandoxpolice said:
Why would optimal be 40% to 60% and not 40% to 100%?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More than you ever probably wanted to know about lithium ion batteries http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

Clienterror said:
More than you ever probably wanted to know about lithium ion batteries http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love that article......well that whole site. I'm a geek lol.

"Turn off phone while charging"
Wonder how important that is.

orlandoxpolice said:
"Turn off phone while charging"
Wonder how important that is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on what is important to you. It keeps the battery cooler (less/no heat from CPU). Obviously you can't recurve phone calls or text messages when the phone is off though.
In most cases, if you don't plan on keeping your phone for 4 or 5 years, the reduction of battery longevity would not be significant. You may now have say 4 hours SoT with 14 hours standby, and in 3 or 4 years you might get 3-3.5 hour SoT with 11 hours standby. Yes it's a loss, but still 'enough' for most people.

orlandoxpolice said:
Why would optimal be 40% to 60% and not 40% to 100%?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Less stress to the battery. Hybrid cars do this too.
Draining close to 0% will stress the battery more, but it's hard to avoid since we have such a wimp battery.
I just charge it up every night or whenever I have a chance since I use wireless qi chargers. By the way, wireless charging creates heat because the inefficiency which is also bad for the battery.

[Q] Does fast charging affect long term battery health?

Does fast charging Daily overnight reduce long term battery health? Is it a better choice to only fast charge when necessary and normal charge overnight?
I've reading about this lately but never came across a definite answer. I was hoping that someone could answer this for me.

Raymondlikesroot said:
Does fast charging Daily overnight reduce long term battery health? Is it a better choice to only fast charge when necessary and normal charge overnight?
I've reading about this lately but never came across a definite answer. I was hoping that someone could answer this for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on quality of the battery and the capacity of the charger.
In general batteries are charged with 10% of the capacity. For the Nexus 6 battery with a capacity of 3200ma/H, you need a charger with a capacity of 320ma. Assume you need 10 hours to fully charge the N6 with a charger capacity of 320ma.
In theory the N6 charger with his capacity of 1600ma will charge 5x faster.
But the the N6 charger is not permanently in this turbo mode. After some time it switches back to a lower capacity when the battery is partially charged.
Now your question. In turbo mode charger and battery dissipates heath and that is not good for the battery. So normal charge will be better.
But there is also battery drain when you use the N6, especially the nice amoled display.
Battery drain causes also warming up of the battery.
So the total battery life depends not only on (turbo) charging. Also the way the N6 is used.

Question Different charging patterns

If i use the official fast charger .....charge up to 100% the next day I barely get 16 hrs and 3 hrs screen time..wireless charge slowly and I get 30 percent more .
Anyone else see a difference??
Uk unlocked s21u for reference.

You sure there are no other factors involved?: types of apps you ran, heat, etc.

mattlcfc said:
If i use the official fast charger .....charge up to 100% the next day I barely get 16 hrs and 3 hrs screen time..wireless charge slowly and I get 30 percent more .
Anyone else see a difference??
Uk unlocked s21u for reference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds interesting! Would love to look into this a little deeper.
Could you describe this in a little more detail please? Like when do you start charging, how long it takes with each method, what your usage pattern is like, and what you mean by 30% more (SOT, Standgy, or literal battery percentage remaining)? And any relevant screeenshots would be much appreciated.

Fast charging will not engage if the temperature is too low. It will remain disengaged for that charge cycle.
Charging is an electrochemical reaction that needs a certain temperature range to function properly.
Minimum start temp is 72°F but 82-90F is optimal.
Anything below 72F brings the risk of Li plating which will permanently degrade the cell.
Charging will also shutdown if the battery temperature goes too high.

blackhawk said:
Fast charging will not engage if the temperature is too low. It will remain disengaged for that charge cycle.
Charging is an electrochemical reaction that needs a certain temperature range to function properly.
Minimum start temp is 72°F but 82-90F is optimal.
Anything below 72F brings the risk of Li plating which will permanently degrade the cell.
Charging will also shutdown if the battery temperature goes too high.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think OP is talking about speed of charging. We're trying to discuss battery life with different speeds of charging.

enigmaamit said:
I don't think OP is talking about speed of charging. We're trying to discuss battery life with different speeds of charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should be near identical.
Android battery capacity sensing always left something to be desired.
Battery temperatures should be made the same when comparing.
Try comparing battery voltages rather than indicated %

blackhawk said:
It should be near identical.
Android battery capacity sensing always left something to be desired.
Battery temperatures should be made the same when comparing.
Try comparing battery voltages rather than indicated %
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is why we're waiting for more information about his experience before coming to any conclusions.

enigmaamit said:
That is why we're waiting for more information about his experience before coming to any conclusions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depending on how fast the battery is charging it may shutdown at a lower charge level to avoid overshooting the correct shutdown voltage.
Samsung is said to be very conservative with their charge curves... I wonder why
Samsung should be using graphene batteries by now. Instead of throwing all their resources at the Folds, which never have sold well, they neglect their bread winners. I just reamed them out over that today

blackhawk said:
I just reamed them out over that today
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You called them and asked them to switch to Graphene batteries?

nixnixnixnix4 said:
You called them and asked them to switch to Graphene batteries?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Said they should be using them already, among other things. Before the 10+ was released there was speculation that it might have a Graphene cell, lol.
I was barely aware of this technology until a few days ago... it be cool and it's in use.

blackhawk said:
Said they should be using them already, among other things. Before the 10+ was released there was speculation that it might have a Graphene cell, lol.
I was barely aware of this technology until a few days ago... it be cool and it's in use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other than power banks, who is using them in their phones?

nixnixnixnix4 said:
Other than power banks, who is using them in their phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xiaomi tells us about graphene batteries and the great challenge posed by the Mi 10 Ultra
Xiaomist A portal to share question and answer about smartphone , problems , news and ...
www.xiaomist.com

30% more seems to be a huge claim .
5%-10% could have been a margin or error.

I'll have to do some tracking and get some screen shots . I normally wireless charge overnight and it says 100 % every morning and I use 70 % battery on average . But 1 day a week I have to charge using the lead . I only have the "super fast" charger and lead and the next day the battery is always worse by quite a way . Dead by 19:00 hrs. Similar usage most days . Its as if on fast charge it says 100 % but is way down.
As said I'll do some more investigation.

mattlcfc said:
I'll have to do some tracking and get some screen shots . I normally wireless charge overnight and it says 100 % every morning and I use 70 % battery on average . But 1 day a week I have to charge using the lead . I only have the "super fast" charger and lead and the next day the battery is always worse by quite a way . Dead by 19:00 hrs. Similar usage most days . Its as if on fast charge it says 100 % but is way down.
As said I'll do some more investigation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know that you can toggle OFF fast-charging and super-fast-charging in the battery settings right?
Try that.

blackhawk said:
Xiaomi tells us about graphene batteries and the great challenge posed by the Mi 10 Ultra
Xiaomist A portal to share question and answer about smartphone , problems , news and ...
www.xiaomist.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung better listen then.
These batteries should last us 4 years easily. Anything less than that is a rip off.

nixnixnixnix4 said:
Samsung better listen then.
These batteries should last us 4 years easily. Anything less than that is a rip off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With heavy usage the Li's are good for 1-2 years. Maybe better in a temp controlled environment.
I stream a lot and that's hard on the battery which is why I now say... live and let die

It's typical for batteries to last longer the slower they're charged. If you're using fast charging when plugged in, you'll see a decrease in the amount of charge that is held throughout the day, compared to wireless charging which is quite a bit slower.

mattlcfc said:
If i use the official fast charger .....charge up to 100% the next day I barely get 16 hrs and 3 hrs screen time..wireless charge slowly and I get 30 percent more .
Anyone else see a difference??
Uk unlocked s21u for reference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure there aren't any other elements at play? Examples include the applications you used, the temperature, and so on.

SuperIronOut said:
It's typical for batteries to last longer the slower they're charged. If you're using fast charging when plugged in, you'll see a decrease in the amount of charge that is held throughout the day, compared to wireless charging which is quite a bit slower.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying if one battery is slow, one is fast charged, both to 3.2 volts, the slow charged one will yield mAhs.
Unless the battery is degraded I have my doubts that it be a significant difference.