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Hello,
I just got my new Xperia Z having used my ancient Iphone 1G for the last 4 years and I have no experience with Android and anything related to it what so ever. I've spent the last 2 days tirelessly working my way through various forums, guides, wikis to get an idea what I'm dealing with here and where to start, but there's an important decision that I could really use your thoughts and tips on.
After reading up on it, I decided I want to root my phone and this seems to be somehow connected to unlocking the bootloader and this is where I'm worried. I read the guide on how to unlock the bootloader and the warning about losing DRM Keys and the consequences of this scared me away from it. Now I'm left wondering, and this is my actual question here:
What is the difference between unlocking the bootloader and rooting my phone and simply rooting without unlocking the bootloader?
And in case the things I want to do are only available with an unlocked bootloader: how damaging is it to lose DRM keys and therefore the bravia engine and gracenote? What made you decided for or against unlocking the bootloader?
Thanks!
Hi,
maybe I can help you.
Bootloader is like the BIOS of a PC. It checks everything at start up.
Locked Bootloader only allows to run the Stock FW and in this case the DRM-Keys are working (everything is checked and safe)
Unlock the Bootloader means you were able to install an modified / other FW and then you loose the DRM-Keys (the manufacturer hasn´t checked the FW and it is in the eyes of an manufacturer "not safe". You will also loose your warranty.
If you unlock the bootloader Root is always possible as I know.
In this case the system is not from the manufacturer and unofficial modification could be done to the system. Normally all modified Systems have Root access. So you were able to do things that the manufacturer has normally not allowed. Modify system files or something like that. Also it could be possible to copy for example a downloaded and payed movie to another device. This is why you were not able to download a movie on the Play Store if you have root. On a locked bootloader the FW (system) does not give you the possibility to copy the movie to an other device and everything is "safe" (from the view of companies). No illegal copies are possible. (DRM-Keys)
Since some days Root is also possible on a locked bootloader.
The bootloader is checking the status (locked) .. then checking the FW (stock) ... DRM-Keys still valid.
But due to the root access you were also able to modify system files and apps can recognize that you have root access. So you can still use the bravia engine for example (DRM-Keys are ok). But the Google Play Store will still recognize that you have root and will not let you download movies.
This is my experience with Root ... If something is not correct, please correct me
UserX10 said:
Hi,
maybe I can help you.
Bootloader is like the BIOS of a PC. It checks everything at start up.
Locked Bootloader only allows to run the Stock FW and in this case the DRM-Keys are working (everything is checked and safe)
Unlock the Bootloader means you were able to install an modified / other FW and then you loose the DRM-Keys (the manufacturer hasn´t checked the FW and it is in the eyes of an manufacturer "not safe". You will also loose your warranty.
If you unlock the bootloader Root is always possible as I know.
In this case the system is not from the manufacturer and unofficial modification could be done to the system. Normally all modified Systems have Root access. So you were able to do things that the manufacturer has normally not allowed. Modify system files or something like that. Also it could be possible to copy for example a downloaded and payed movie to another device. This is why you were not able to download a movie on the Play Store if you have root. On a locked bootloader the FW (system) does not give you the possibility to copy the movie to an other device and everything is "safe" (from the view of companies). No illegal copies are possible. (DRM-Keys)
Since some days Root is also possible on a locked bootloader.
The bootloader is checking the status (locked) .. then checking the FW (stock) ... DRM-Keys still valid.
But due to the root access you were also able to modify system files and apps can recognize that you have root access. So you can still use the bravia engine for example (DRM-Keys are ok). But the Google Play Store will still recognize that you have root and will not let you download movies.
This is my experience with Root ... If something is not correct, please correct me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi and thanks a lot for your reply, helped me understand the difference of both better!
If I only root but do not unlock my bootloader will I be able to do anything other than using custom firmware (ROMs)? Will I be able to install Apps that require root or install custom modification like the ones offered on this forum that need to be "flashed in recovery" if I only root not unlock my bootloader?
Also, still looking for some pros and cons (my second question in the original post).
Appreciate all your help!
root will give you access to recovery (in time - still in development) and you can install apps that require root access
custom mods - yes you can install them via recovery and some can be installed with root access and without recovery
if u unlock bootloader you will lose bravia engine not sure bout gracenote as i dont use it
you can check this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2154310 too see what have people wrote bout
rooting with unlocked bootloader
The main thing pointing me towards unlocking bootloader (I'm already rooted on locked bootloader) is being able to install kernels and major roms.
For example, you could flash Doomlords kernel and over clock the processor a bit, but you could also reduce power and save battery
The major roms I speak of are the ones that are kinda cross device: CyanogenMod and Paranoid Android to name 2. CM is based on pure android, no Sony changes so we can't flash that on locked bootloaders as it requires changing kernel. PA is same.
As for the downsides. I'm not too bothered about DRM keys. I use Spotify for music so don't think I need gracenote. Never watched a movie on my phone. BE2 isn't my cup of tea... Over saturates everything.
I'm going to look into DRM keys more tomorrow, but if someone can correct anything I've written then please do
Not being able to restore via Sony tools... Isn't that bad as you're going to be using flash tool a lot so you'll be used to that. Just keep a generic stick firmware .ftf around in case something goes horrendously wrong (usually recovery backup is enough I think).
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2
Nice thread, I had this question too
It's my first android and I guess I should unlock the bootloader and then root, this way I won't have to wipe my data later when I decide to try cyanogenmod or something else?
Also what happens if sony release 4.2? Will I lose my bootloader unlock and root?
Al Gore said:
Nice thread, I had this question too
It's my first android and I guess I should unlock the bootloader and then root, this way I won't have to wipe my data later when I decide to try cyanogenmod or something else?
Also what happens if sony release 4.2? Will I lose my bootloader unlock and root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say root without unlock for now.
When you want to try cyanogenmod or others. Just backup everything using titanium backup and then u can restore after unlocking.
Rooting with a locked bootloader means sony are not aware your bootloader is unlocked
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
Thanks for all your replies, helped me out a ton!
I think Im gonna root without unlocking bootloader for now to get my feet wet and get a grasp of it's capabilities and limits. Can always restore the phone if I screw up and can always unlock bootloader later if I need it.
Al Gore said:
Nice thread, I had this question too
It's my first android and I guess I should unlock the bootloader and then root, this way I won't have to wipe my data later when I decide to try cyanogenmod or something else?
Also what happens if sony release 4.2? Will I lose my bootloader unlock and root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you unlock Bootloader, you shouldn't update from Sony. Since you've (hypothetically) already unlocked, you already have 4.2 avaliable from FXP and if you really want the Sony Update maybe you could flash it via flash tool. Bootloader unlock will never be lost (until someone can create an explicit relock file, but customs roms won't relock it). Root maybe lost if you flash a rom without it but you should be able to get it back easy.
With locked bootloader, we have to wait for Sony to bring 4.2 as we can't access the kernel, but we retain the ability to use the official updates. If we're rooted and we update, we are no longer rooted and we may be unable to use the same exploit.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2
Hi,
I'm looking to root my HTC One. I know the easy way is to unlock bootloader, flash recovery, flash su, done, but there is that part about "may void your warranty". I read that HTC will still repair hardware issues even if the bootloader is unlocked, but still I'm curious about different ways to root.
So... as far as I can tell by looking at the htcdev kernel source the kernel is vulnerable to the sw_perf_event exploit (http://packetstormsecurity.com/files/121616/semtex.c), and than there is this project https://github.com/android-rooting-tools/libperf_event_exploit.
I was wondering if anyone made that exploit work on the M7 (aka found the right offset) and also if you think it would be worth rooting with that. I guess I won't be able to flash new ROMs as the bootloader would still be locked, right? Or will I be able to flash the recovery partition withoud needing to unlock the bootloader (I guess not)?
Thanks
sciepy said:
Hi,
I'm looking to root my HTC One. I know the easy way is to unlock bootloader, flash recovery, flash su, done, but there is that part about "may void your warranty". I read that HTC will still repair hardware issues even if the bootloader is unlocked, but still I'm curious about different ways to root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is false. you will have to pay for any repairs performed on the device.
Blanket statements like this are troublesome. The warranty coverage varies by country. I've had warranty replaced phones that were rooted with no problem here in the US
I have the Verizon Dev Edition Moto X. Understanding that I won't void my warranty if I unlock the bootloader, it has been stated in many threads that even if you re-lock the bootloader it still will give you a warning boot screen (unlocked BL) because there are flags that are permanently changed on the phone once you unlock it.
That being said, I am very non-committal, so I first want to just root the phone and install safestrap. I have seen a ton of tools out there that root your device, however I am confused as to which one I should run (e.g. slapmymoto, pwnmymoto, etc). I am on the latest firmware (4.4), so I think it requires you to downgrade? Any words of sage advice is appreciated...
Also, any changes I make to my phone, I can always RSDLite my way back to 100% stock correct?
STEyeAndroid said:
I have the Verizon Dev Edition Moto X. Understanding that I won't void my warranty if I unlock the bootloader, it has been stated in many threads that even if you re-lock the bootloader it still will give you a warning boot screen (unlocked BL) because there are flags that are permanently changed on the phone once you unlock it.
That being said, I am very non-committal, so I first want to just root the phone and install safestrap. I have seen a ton of tools out there that root your device, however I am confused as to which one I should run (e.g. slapmymoto, pwnmymoto, etc). I am on the latest firmware (4.4), so I think it requires you to downgrade? Any words of sage advice is appreciated...
Also, any changes I make to my phone, I can always RSDLite my way back to 100% stock correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would start here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2536200
I don't know why the unlocked bootloader warning screen would stay set if you relocked it, but you can change that screen to display whatever you want. See here for details:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2417961
Since you have the dev edition, you should be able to unlock, install TWRP, and root without slapmymoto or pwnmymoto. I did it all AFTER installing the latest OTA, and I had no trouble.
I have not used RSDLite, but that is the way I understand it.
STEyeAndroid said:
I have the Verizon Dev Edition Moto X. Understanding that I won't void my warranty if I unlock the bootloader, it has been stated in many threads that even if you re-lock the bootloader it still will give you a warning boot screen (unlocked BL) because there are flags that are permanently changed on the phone once you unlock it.
That being said, I am very non-committal, so I first want to just root the phone and install safestrap. I have seen a ton of tools out there that root your device, however I am confused as to which one I should run (e.g. slapmymoto, pwnmymoto, etc). I am on the latest firmware (4.4), so I think it requires you to downgrade? Any words of sage advice is appreciated...
Also, any changes I make to my phone, I can always RSDLite my way back to 100% stock correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sell or trade your dev edition. Installing SafeStrap on that phone is such a waste of time and energy.
Or read more. There are ways to remove the boot logo screen.
Can anyone confirm whether or not unlocking the boot loader sets a permanent flag?
STEyeAndroid said:
Can anyone confirm whether or not unlocking the boot loader sets a permanent flag?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It appears to. And the statement about still receiving the unlocked bootloader warning after re-locking the bootloader is correct.
However, since the warranty of the Dev Edition is not voided, just unlock the bootloader, root, and then get rid of the message by replacing the logo.bin
STEyeAndroid said:
Can anyone confirm whether or not unlocking the boot loader sets a permanent flag?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought a dev edition, it doesn't matter if the flag is set or not.
I just want to root my HTC Desire 510 in order to use Xmod game assistant and just to delete bloatware. I tried using kingoroot, it said success, but it actually didn't even work. I found out that you need to unlock the bootloader. I don't really want to this, i have no interest in it. I was thinking of using Kingoroot's HTC bootloader unlock to unlock it, then root it using the kingoroot rooter, then re-lock the bootloader with the Kingoroot bootloader program. Is it risky? Please note my phone has no important data, it's new. And I do not want to install anything custom. Just get xmod and remove bloatware. That's all I need.
Would this all work? Please help.
uRager said:
I just want to root my HTC Desire 510 in order to use Xmod game assistant and just to delete bloatware. I tried using kingoroot, it said success, but it actually didn't even work. I found out that you need to unlock the bootloader. I don't really want to this, i have no interest in it. I was thinking of using Kingoroot's HTC bootloader unlock to unlock it, then root it using the kingoroot rooter, then re-lock the bootloader with the Kingoroot bootloader program. Is it risky? Please note my phone has no important data, it's new. And I do not want to install anything custom. Just get xmod and remove bloatware. That's all I need.
Would this all work? Please help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No this won't work and the number one reason is because if you root the phone and then spend your time deleting all the bloatware you'll be wasting your time if you don't install a kernel with write protection removed because as soon as you reboot the phone will reinstall everything! So you need to unlock the bootloader and then install the custom recovery and then make a backup first before doing anything else and then install the kernel with write protection removed and then delete bloatware!
Ok, I decided I don't want to remove bloatware. I am just rooting so I can download Xmodgames and such apps that need a rooted device. No custom ROMS or anything. Would I be fine?
uRager said:
Ok, I decided I don't want to remove bloatware. I am just rooting so I can download Xmodgames and such apps that need a rooted device. No custom ROMS or anything. Would I be fine?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Although be warned rooting will restore the phone to stock after unlocking the bootloader.
Can you even use the phone if you make changes? What I mean is isn't the point behind a locked bootloader to keep changes from being made? So if you unlock -> make a change (rooting for example) -> then relock .... doesn't that equal bootloop when the bootloader notices you've changed something?
For my two cents... I'm probably more of a noob than you @uRager, and I got through the unlocking and rooting process with not too much trouble. I think the good old fashioned way will probably serve you the best. And there are several kernels that are just a modified version of the stock kernel (write protection removed) so a couple more minutes will get the bloat removed as well. Also don't be afraid to ask questions, from what Ive seen they usually get answered.
Is there a way to root this device without paying anything?
I've an unlocked verizon droid turbo(supports all sim cards )
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
No.
Nope.
If you're unlocked you should be able to flash supersu on twrp. Unlocking carries the fee not rooting. Correct me if I'm wrong I just got this phone. However I never paid to root it. I paid to unlock it and felt awkward for it afterwards. I never had to pay to unlock a phone. It's like one of those things I get told not to do because it's a scam. Lol.
xrock8 said:
Is there a way to root this device without paying anything?
I've an unlocked verizon droid turbo(supports all sim cards )
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you used Sunshine, your phone is not unlocked. Your phone is SIM unlocked, not bootloader unlocked.
iiWoodstocK said:
Unless you used Sunshine, your phone is not unlocked. Your phone is SIM unlocked, not bootloader unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah my bad
Thanks for correcting me !
I actually meant SIM unlocked.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
xrock8 said:
Yeah my bad
Thanks for correcting me !
I actually meant SIM unlocked.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no way of getting free permanent root. You could use Sunshine to get temp root, but that might not be too useful since the bootloader is still locked.
The only way to get permanent root is to unlock the bootloader by paying for Sunshine.
Temp root doesn't really allow permanent changes. The write protection is really really annoying. Twrp disables this write protection.
That is incorrect. You can root without sunshine, or TWRP. There is a debate as to the permanence. You can run Kingroot, then some scripts to swap Kingroot for SU, this will result in permanent persistent root without installing TWRP. The question is if Sunshine disabled the write protection or not. If you have not unlocked with Sunshine then by all means git it a try and let us know if it worked. I posted a thread about it a while back.
I'm not sure why people repeat that TWRP is needed for perm root but rest assured, it is absolutely 100% not.
HT123 said:
That is incorrect. You can root without sunshine, or TWRP. There is a debate as to the permanence. You can run Kingroot, then some scripts to swap Kingroot for SU, this will result in permanent persistent root without installing TWRP. The question is if Sunshine disabled the write protection or not. If you have not unlocked with Sunshine then by all means git it a try and let us know if it worked. I posted a thread about it a while back.
I'm not sure why people repeat that TWRP is needed for perm root but rest assured, it is absolutely 100% not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're half right. An unlocked bootloader is required for persistent root on the Droid Turbo. There's not really any debate about that. Technically, TWRP is not required. There are ways to get SuperSU on there without TWRP after the bootloader is unlocked (sunshine or kingroot temp root + flashify), but most people prefer to use TWRP since it's incredibly useful for the things that people with unlocked bootloaders usually want to do. Unlocking a bootloader without installing TWRP is like buying a Swiss army knife that doesn't have any knives in it. And yes, if you're determined enough, you can get SuperSU on there via Kingroot with a locked bootloader. But with a locked bootloader, doing so achieves nothing more than a super unstable system. Root's great and all, but it's not better than a phone that will actually turn on for more than 5 seconds before every app starts force closing.
EDIT: Nevermind. I think I misread what you were trying to say. Your post was assuming an unlocked bootloader. I missed that.
---------- Post added at 12:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------
s4shield said:
If you're unlocked you should be able to flash supersu on twrp. Unlocking carries the fee not rooting. Correct me if I'm wrong I just got this phone. However I never paid to root it. I paid to unlock it and felt awkward for it afterwards. I never had to pay to unlock a phone. It's like one of those things I get told not to do because it's a scam. Lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sunshine is 100% not a scam. It is primarily maintained by two guys known as jcase and beaups. If you google either of their names, you'll find that they're associated with many, if not the majority, of the root/unlock exploits that have been released for just about every Android phone that has ever received one. The fee, which is incredibly fair, is necessary to partially recoup the thousands of dollars of their own money that they spend on test devices. Jcase is also a professional security researcher by day, and by releasing things like Sunshine, he forfeits sizable bug bounties that he would receive if he reported these bugs to Google or any given phone manufacturer. You don't get something that is more legit, or two guys that are more willing to make our communities possible, than Sunshine and the team behind it.
That was the question that I have yet to see proved with empirical evidence. Does sunshine turn off write protection so that SU will be persistent between reboots. As i have a said a few times, i assume it did, but since i installed SU after I ran sunshine i can not tell for sure. Again, the question was not about preference it was about the misinformation that TWRP is required for permanent root. I dont know why but that one bugs the [email protected] out of me. Again, if you haven't run sunshine yet I urge you to look for the other thread I posted on root without TWRP and try it for yourself. Worst that happens is it does not work.
I am going to put this out there, not because I know I am right but because I'd like it confirmed or refuted myself.
On the Turbo, kingroot or whatever root implementation is used by sunshine is only a temp root, meaning it does not survive a reboot. Kingroot may or may not leave some components on the /system partition but it does not keep the phone rooted, sometimes it can't even keep root while the phone is continuously running. Either way, unstable temp root is not very useful, but it allows sunshine bootloader unlock to work through an exploit.
At this point the write protection may or may not be disabled, I assume it is disabled and I know the sunshine devs could clear this up. For most the next step is flashing twrp, which provides the option to disable WP or not. It is unclear why this needs to be done, I imagine for some circumstance where twrp is flashed but the user wants to keep WP. So twrp is able to toggle WP, but it isn't doing anything too special to accomplish this. For us there is absolutely no reason to unlock the BL, flash twrp, then keep WP on and in fact it may render the phone unusable in this state.
So to get perm root, you need WP turned off. To get WP turned off, you need the BL unlocked. To get the BL unlocked, you need temp root.
Thus there is no free option, just pay these hard working devs for their huge personal investment in our device and appreciate the fact that someone got it done. Root is not easy anymore, and that is why it costs something now. Other high-end carrier locked-down phones will never get root because no one with enough skill and determination is working on them. Or there is simply no available exploit (or at least one that is feasible to use).
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Again, this is the question that some seem baffled by.
Does running sunshine turn off the write protection to enable the swapping of kingroot for SU to be persistent through reboots.
As i have said, numerous time, TWRP is 100% not needed for ermanent persistent root. it just isn't, no matter how often the claim is repeated, it does not make it true. This is not a question about paying the devs or any other philosophical discussion on the merrits of TWRP vs stock recovery. It is a simple technical question of "Can you make root persistent without running sunshine"
HT123 said:
Again, this is the question that some seem baffled by.
"Can you make root persistent without running sunshine"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Disclaimer: I have no idea what I am talking about but I'd wager I am right.
Not without a new exploit.
To date the only exploit we have that allows write protection disabled is the one that allows an unlocked bootloader.
After that we have full access and then have our choice to use fastboot, adb or twrp.
If another dev/hacker were to look for an exploit I'm guessing they would again attack the bootloader.
This is a very logical starting place since a persistent root would most likely need two exploits. One to gain root, another to gain write access.
mrkhigh said:
Disclaimer: I have no idea what I am talking about but I'd wager I am right.
Not without a new exploit.
To date the only exploit we have that allows write protection disabled is the one that allows an unlocked bootloader.
After that we have full access and then have our choice to use fastboot, adb or twrp.
If another dev/hacker were to look for an exploit I'm guessing they would again attack the bootloader.
This is a very logical starting place since a persistent root would most likely need two exploits. One to gain root, another to gain write access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the Droid Turbo XT1224, yes TWRP is needed for a fully stable write protection disabled permanent root.
On other phones, no a custom recovery is not necessarily needed. For example, on my old Droid 4, I rooted the phone without installing a custom recovery. That root was permanent, and had write protection turned off.
TheSt33v said:
You're half right. An unlocked bootloader is required for persistent root on the Droid Turbo. There's not really any debate about that. Technically, TWRP is not required. There are ways to get SuperSU on there without TWRP after the bootloader is unlocked (sunshine or kingroot temp root + flashify), but most people prefer to use TWRP since it's incredibly useful for the things that people with unlocked bootloaders usually want to do. Unlocking a bootloader without installing TWRP is like buying a Swiss army knife that doesn't have any knives in it. And yes, if you're determined enough, you can get SuperSU on there via Kingroot with a locked bootloader. But with a locked bootloader, doing so achieves nothing more than a super unstable system. Root's great and all, but it's not better than a phone that will actually turn on for more than 5 seconds before every app starts force closing.
EDIT: Nevermind. I think I misread what you were trying to say. Your post was assuming an unlocked bootloader. I missed that.
---------- Post added at 12:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------
Sunshine is 100% not a scam. It is primarily maintained by two guys known as jcase and beaups. If you google either of their names, you'll find that they're associated with many, if not the majority, of the root/unlock exploits that have been released for just about every Android phone that has ever received one. The fee, which is incredibly fair, is necessary to partially recoup the thousands of dollars of their own money that they spend on test devices. Jcase is also a professional security researcher by day, and by releasing things like Sunshine, he forfeits sizable bug bounties that he would receive if he reported these bugs to Google or any given phone manufacturer. You don't get something that is more legit, or two guys that are more willing to make our communities possible, than Sunshine and the team behind it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it's not a scam when I first used it kind of came off that. I wasn't used to the process and I know why they charge. Anytime I've seen anyone asking you for money to either unlock your bootloader or root your phone it has always been a scam till now. So that's why I saw it that way.