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Is it really necessary to charge my phone for 8 hrs before the first use? I just got my phone and i dont know whether or not charge for 8 hrs or just use it right out of the box. thanks guys!
It's not 'necessary', your phone won't brink if you don't do it.
However, if you condition your battery - charge for 8 hours on first use and then drain it until it's dead, and repeat 2 or 3 times, the battery will have a much better life and useage time (in my experience). This is because all batteries have memory, even ones that say they don't.
xconradx said:
It's not 'necessary', your phone won't brink if you don't do it.
However, if you condition your battery - charge for 8 hours on first use and then drain it until it's dead, and repeat 2 or 3 times, the battery will have a much better life and useage time (in my experience). This is because all batteries have memory, even ones that say they don't.
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Are you sure what you are talking able? Li-ion don't have memory effect. And if fact "A stand-alone Li-ion cell must never be discharged below a certain voltage to avoid irreversible damage." (quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery)
so its not necessary? im confused what did everyone else do when you first received your phone?
I work in the business... I'm sure.
First off, wikipedia is not the most reliable source. Second, your phone won't let you discharge your battery that far, it will shut off long before the battery gets that dead. Lithium Ion batterys can lack the 'memory effect' (effect being the keyword), but they do have memory.
Either way, no need to get up in arms about it. Just charge your phone up all the way, use it till the kaiser tells you to recharge, something like "Replace or recharge your battery to avoid data loss". It's like 10 or 15 percent. When you get there plug it in and charge it all the way up.
You arnt going to hurt your battery as posted above. Correct, if you get way too low you may have issues (why batteries go dead when they sit for a long time), but your kaiser won't let that happen. It will shut itself off first.
xconradx said:
I work in the business... I'm sure.
First off, wikipedia is not the most reliable source. Second, your phone won't let you discharge your battery that far, it will shut off long before the battery gets that dead. Lithium Ion batterys can lack the 'memory effect' (effect being the keyword), but they do have memory.
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Thanks for the info. If they don't have the effect, then what's that memory going to hurt us?
jackleung said:
Thanks for the info. If they don't have the effect, then what's that memory going to hurt us?
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I'm not completely sure what you are asking... but...
The memory won't hurt you. True, you could probably take it right out of the box and use it however you wanted. The memory just helps tell the battery know when it's completely full (to switch to trickle charging if supported by the application), or when it's dead and in danger.
I'm too lazy to try and explain it, so I copied this... I should have refered to it earlier as "digital memory" earlier because it's not at all the same as NiCAD memory which is what most people understand - hope this clarifies.
From - http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
"Although lithium-ion is memory-free in terms of performance deterioration, batteries with fuel gauges exhibit what engineers refer to as "digital memory". Here is the reason: Short discharges with subsequent recharges do not provide the periodic calibration needed to synchronize the fuel gauge with the battery's state-of-charge. A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem. Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate." ...
"Batteries with fuel gauge (laptops, *cell phone {added by me}) should be calibrated by applying a deliberate full discharge once every 30 charges. Running the pack down in the equipment does this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate and in some cases cut off the device prematurely. "
Hope this helps. There is a reason why the manufacturer recommends this. Battery performance as well as the accuracy of your gauge can somewhat depend on this sort of conditioning. This is the reason you may see your battery gauge go up after a restart, or when you charge your phone it may say 90% one second and 100% a few later.
Regardless, this is a crash course in batteries.
i am one of those anal people who likes to keep his battery in good condition by always letting it empty completely before recharging and i have noticed alot that i run into a situation where i need the phone fully charged for some reasion or another but dont have the time to sit around with all the nic's turned on waiting for it to die. i have seen a battery discharge feature on some devices that will rapidly drain the battery to 0 so it doesent develope memory when you plug it back in i was wondering if anyone has made one of these for the raphael?? any links would be apreciated.
i have already rtfw'ed and searched everyone seems so obsesed with prolonging battery life not draining it so i have had no luck
You are actually doing more damage to the battery draining it all the way then if you'd just charge it when you can if you are indeed doing this every single time.
All HTC devices use a Li-ion (Lithium Ion) battery, which do not get a charge memory in the cells like rechargeable batteries of yesteryear.
Instead their life cycle is based on number of discharges and recharges and the batteries age. If you're needlessly discharging your battery and recharging it, you are dramatically shortening it's life.
You should read up...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion#Advantages
...they may be irreversibly damaged if discharged below a certain voltage.
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Like many rechargeable batteries, lithium-ion batteries should be charged early and often.
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Lithium-ion batteries should not be frequently fully discharged and recharged ("deep-cycled"), but this may be necessary after about every 30th recharge to recalibrate any electronic charge monitor (e.g. a battery meter). This allows the monitoring electronics to more accurately estimate battery charge.
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It is clearly stated in the Fuze manual that it is SUGGESTED that you fully discharge your battery and fully recharge to get the most out of it.
thanks for the advice i will look into it but i would still apreciate someone answering my origional question as to wether or not anyone has actually made one of these apps
PwnCakes193 said:
It is clearly stated in the Fuze manual that it is SUGGESTED that you fully discharge your battery and fully recharge to get the most out of it.
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This is almost certainly suggested so the battery meter maintains a good calibration. As GldRush points out, you are not doing any damage to the battery or shortening its life by short-cycling it. You could also harm it by deep-cycling it. Allowing the phone to go to 0% is not, however, deep-cycling the battery. For the phone, 0% is the point at which the operating voltage of the battery has dropped to a level that is approaching the lower limit for the board set (with a safety factor included). That's almost certainly nowhere near a discharge level that could damage the battery.
So if you want to let/make your phone go to 0% before every charge you are probably wasting your time (except for the slight benefit of frequent battery meter calibration), but also probably not harming the battery.
After the 2nd battery warning notification comes up, I end up just launching youtube and running a video. The use of 3g coupled with video playback gives me an auto shutdown of the unit with 5 mins or so.
Turn on the GPS. That should drain it in less than an hour.
I haven't seen any discharge apps but I do know that the biggest battery vampire is palringo...start palringo and join a group with a lot of members and your battery will drain at least 20% in about 10 minutes...even if there are no conversations going on you will still get a dramatic battery drain running palringo in the background
Haha, or use an older version of S2U That drains your battery like crazy too.
Way to discharge a full battery within an hour:
- Start Wifi and let it stay on (no need to connect).
- Start Bluetooth and keep it on (also no need to connect).
- Open Google maps and let it use GPS
- Put Google maps in the background and start playing Teeter.
it's almostly no necessary......
mikeloeven said:
i am one of those anal people who likes to keep his battery in good condition by always letting it empty completely before recharging and i have noticed alot that i run into a situation where i need the phone fully charged for some reasion or another but dont have the time to sit around with all the nic's turned on waiting for it to die. i have seen a battery discharge feature on some devices that will rapidly drain the battery to 0 so it doesent develope memory when you plug it back in i was wondering if anyone has made one of these for the raphael?? any links would be apreciated.
i have already rtfw'ed and searched everyone seems so obsesed with prolonging battery life not draining it so i have had no luck
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These batteries actually get hurt by completely discharging - you're not supposed to do that - you'll kill the battery by bringing it down to 0% too often..
(but to answer you - that's easy.. turn it on.. this phone's a battery hog..)
-m
There's an interesting artice in The Reg about lithium battery maintenance (albeit more related to netbook and laptop batteries).
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/07/beginners_battery_maintenance/
not needed, but just run palringo and google maps while listening to music streamed from di.fm in Kinoma. (pretty much what I run day in and out )
Try the following link
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=516458
Jouke74 said:
Way to discharge a full battery within an hour:
- Start Wifi and let it stay on (no need to connect).
- Start Bluetooth and keep it on (also no need to connect).
- Open Google maps and let it use GPS
- Put Google maps in the background and start playing Teeter.
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this works for me
Hi guys, my battery has sarted to read 100% after only a few minutes charging. The only way I know if it's charged 100% is to charge when the phone is off. I was wandering if anyone else has experienced this and knows how to solve it.
Thanks
Sent from my Optimus 2X using Tapatalk
The battery guage isn't the best. I rebooted my phone this morning and it went from 96% to 14%
About a minute later it was back where it should have been.
try to charge with the usb cable. i have this issue only with ac charger.
You could always try the common cure-all, deleting /data/system/batterystats.bin when at 100%, but I doubt it will help.
I also have this problem, it is since nightly 105 or something. Never had it before. I use the original charger, it read 100% after a few minutes of charging. When you unplug the device, it falls back to the real reading. So you never know when it is fully charged. I already deleted the battery stats in cwm, but it did`t help.
Seems like last 20 or so nightlys have battery issues......
Sent from my Optimus 2X using Tapatalk
Updating to nightly 117 seems to resolve the issue, although I don`t know which comment it would have fixed it.
it's ROM issues.. tried few ROM and these kind of bugs happened..
Try changing BaseBand and/or Ril
spica1234 said:
Try changing BaseBand and/or Ril
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That is bull****.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk
Note on Li-Ion cells / battery stats
Battery life is based on the voltage detected usually on the "3rd pin" which is standard on all Li-Ion packages as regulation. Now smartphone and all electronic devices that use these single (or multiple) Li-Ion cells usually make an estimate on battery life based on the degree of discharge based on the use you make of the device during the day. Having said this, there are 2 possible ways to show battery state of charge:
1) based solely on voltage. Full battery reads 4.2V, dead will be below 3.3-3V depending on vendor. However this means that device on-time is tighly connected to how much apps you run/screen/wifi/3G usage for ex.
2) based on voltage AND usage statistics. Software monitoring will store battery statistics in a file and use them to update the battery guage accordingly so battery charge status reflects more averagely the time you have left based on your daily usage habits and battery freshness.
If you delete the battery satistics file and you still get erratic readings, either there is a software bug in the battery guage integration software readings or you may have a problematic battery cell. The simple way is to swap batteries and see if the problem is gone or not.
Note on Li-Ion cells: the cell's have a limited number of charge-discharge cycles meaning the more you reach complete discharge before charging the shorter their life span. Better charge your cell(s) everytime you can which will increase their lifespan. Avoid overheating the cells which will also decrease lifespan. If heavily using the device, keep it powerer on usb or external charger.
Hi !
I have a nook HD+ which has been behaving strangely. Its battery life has reduced lately. I initially had problems with 'media' and 'SDcard' draining it quickly. But I was able to check that by formatting my SD card and deleting two 0 kB files in my internal memory.
However, the battery life, since, has not improved much. Moreover, I have started to see a few spikes in the battery charge chart (like the one in the pictures attached with this post) without having plugged the Nook in.
I am on CM 11 snapshot M8. I have already tried calibrating my battery by charging it to 100% and then removing batterystats.bin system file through PlayStore's 'Battery calibration' app, but the issue still remains unresolved.
Has anyone else faced a similar issue with her or his Nook ?
You cannot calibrate batteries in Android. Those silly apps just delete batterystats.bin and that is an Android file responsible for the statistics seen in your third screenshot. It gets deleted automatically when you unplug the charger at an almost 100% charge level, and it has nothing to do with the reported battery level!
The battery percentage as shown by Android comes from the kernel, the power management unit (PMU) driver to be more specific. The PMU, which usually is a separate chip inside the device, is responsible for monitoring, charging, and discharging the battery, among other things. There are many different PMU models, so this is highly hardware-dependent, and there most likely are no apps out there that can directly talk to all the existing PMUs to do something that's actually meaningful (which deleting batterystats.bin is not).
The only thing you can do is once in a while discharge the battery until the device turns off, then recharge it in one go to full capacity. That way, the PMU hopefully "calibrates" its battery monitoring by itself and should report more accurate state of charge values again. Measuring a battery's state of charge is rather difficult and not an exact science. Those percentage values are only estimates. So, the spikes you see on the battery percentage chart are a result of the imperfect method that is used to calculate the current battery percentage. Maybe this gets worse with aging batteries, I don't know. There's nothing really you can do, other than the complete discharge/recharge cycle you've already tried. Maybe a future firmware will come with a better battery percentage calculation method - but as I said, this is totally independent from Android, it's a low-level hardware and kernel driver thing.
Thanks a lot. A very informative post indeed !
Full battery charge/discharge cycles seems like the only solution then.
How will it affect the battery and its capacity to retain the charge though ?
To prevent any misunderstanding: you should definitely not discharge your lithium-ion based batteries to 0% all the time. Li-ion batteries live longer if they are kept between 40% and 80% charge. At 80% you won't get the full capacity / runtime, of course, but the battery will be able to endure more charge/discharge cycles that way. As I said, discharging to 0% followed by recharing to 100% should only be done occasionally, if you feel that the reported battery percentage has become too inaccurate. It probably won't fix the "ghost recharging" seen on the Nook and other devices. What probably happens here is that the battery's voltage is factored into the state of charge calculation. Li-ion batteries are usually charged to 4.2V per cell, which is "100%", and discharged to some arbitrary voltage, e.g. 3.5V, which would be considered "0%". Inbetween, the voltage curve is not linear. That is, 50% would not necessarily correspond to 3.85V (=(4.2+3.5) / 2). Also, the voltage depends on the power draw to some extent. If the tablet draws a higher current from the battery, the voltage will sag. If you then put the tablet into standby, reducing the current to a very small value, the battery voltage will recover and increase again a bit. This is what might cause those spikes (although they shouldn't be that large).
This and more can be learned on Battery University. And here's a source for the batterystats.bin calibration myth.
Thanks a lot Tzul. You have been very helpful !!
I may have to replace my battery soon. If the battery life does not improve, I guess I will have to buy a replacement battery from a third party replacement battery seller.
How do you guys go about your battery usage, as far as charging? Do you let it drain down before charging it? I have a wireless charging pad on my work desk, so I just place the phone on it while working. But this doesn't allow it to ever drain very low. I know in the past, there was a believe in certain battery conditioning, but I'm not sure if that still applies these days.
ledvedder said:
How do you guys go about your battery usage, as far as charging? Do you let it drain down before charging it? I have a wireless charging pad on my work desk, so I just place the phone on it while working. But this doesn't allow it to ever drain very low. I know in the past, there was a believe in certain battery conditioning, but I'm not sure if that still applies these days.
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I always charge my phone between 40 and 84%. I don't let the battery go below 20% and above 84%; there're loads of research supporting this as this extends battery health (wear) rather than 0-100-0. Wireless charging is absolutely in efficient as it generates heat which is bad for the battery and a substantial portion of the charge transfer is lost in heat. The only good part of wireless charging is it's ease of use.
You don't need to do any battery conditioning as your battery doesn't have any memory as they used to long ago...