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The purpose of this document is to clarify a few basics about HTC Android Phones and basic commands to interface with the phones. Think of this as a beginner's guides to the Android device from a non-traditional user's point of view. I'll keep it simple and plain as much as I can for the new users. I'll also try to keep all the technical aspects true as much as I can while keeping it simple.
Before you go on, please read this and understand the basic concepts and how and why following commands are being used. Do not follow anyone's instructions/tutorials/guides without prior basic understanding of what each command do. I do want to believe it's humans visiting this forum and not lemmings. If you do not understand, feel free to ask here. I will or someone else also knowledgeable will answer your questions. DO NOT QUOTE THIS AS A WHOLE. My pet peeves and a complete waste of screen space.
Sometime, depending on your OS, command names may change (e.g: mouse / mouse.exe / mouse-linux / mouse-mac). For general purpose, we'll use mouse instead of an OS specific commands in this instructions.
So to repeat myself, if you understood the concepts of the commands, and you are on a linux system and someone's guide says touch index.php, you will automatically type touch-linux or whatever the name of your executable is on your system.
We shall assume you know how to install needed drivers and where to get android sdk and put the sdk binaries (executables) in the system path. If we need to expend this let me know and I'll expend this here.
Further, if I get any parts wrong, PM me and I'll get those parts corrected.
Android Partition, SPL etc.
Partitions:
Followings are a list of partitions on your android phone.
misc - misc partition -
recovery - Recovery Partition - This is where the original HTC recovery or Amon Ra's recovery or any other Recovery would go. Basically if you reboot into recovery it'll boot from here.
boot - This is your boot partition
system - This is where all your system information (ROM resides)
cache - cache (When you factory reset the phone, this area is wiped)
userdata - user data (like your login, your user settings etc) When you factory reset the phone, this area is wiped)
So, if you replace the recovery image, you are pretty much set for updates provided here at XDA. Note: By replacing your recovery image, you may not be able to have OTA updates.
ROM images will normally replace boot and system images at the same time and often time, userdata and cache too; reseting the phone completely.
SPL/Bootloader/Radio/Bricking Phones:
SPL / Bootloader is like BIOS on a computer. At least I think of it that way. SPL can be updated! SPL comes as either Security-On of Security-Off (S-ON/S-OFF).
Note: It is my understanding that radio will boot first, followed by other systems. So it is IMPORTANT that your radio image/version will work with your SPL image/version. This is the one and only reason for phones being bricked. You can not brick your phone by flashing a ROM or Boot image or recovery image. Once you flash the wrong radio for the SPL, the only known method of recovery is to send the phone back into HTC for repair.
How do I know the phone is bricked? A bricked phone can not boot into bootloader, recovery, or into normal operation modes. You can not connect to a bricked phone via adb or fastboot. You can only see one screen on the phone and it will be the first splash screen.
Commands:
adb - Android Debug Bridge - One of the two things you'll need to know if you ever want to do anything non-conventional on your android based phone.
List of commands that can be used by adb can be prompted by typing adb at the system shell (command prompt or terminal)
Notable adb commands:
adb devices - If you don't know anything, this is the ONE thing you have to know.
adb devices will give you a list of devices connected to the computer. This is also a good way to make sure that your phone is actually connected to the computer.
adb reboot (bootloader|recovery)
adb reboot - this will reboot your phone normally.
adb reboot bootloader - this will reboot your phone back into the bootloader (white screen with the android on wheels)
adb reboot recovery - this will reboot your phone back into recovery console (either default or amon_ra's recovery).
adb shell - this will shell into the phone and you can now explore the phone. Remember phone's native backend os is linux so know your linux commands.
adb remount - remounts the system partition on the phone so you can you read/write to it.
adb push xxx yyy - will push xxx file from computer into yyy location/file on phone (needs rooted access)
adb pull xxx yyy - will pull xxx file from phone into yyy location/file on computer (needs rooted access)
Fastboot is protocol used to update the flash filesystem in Android devices from a host over USB. It allows flashing of unsigned partition images.
Notable fastboot commands:
fastboot devices - If you don't know anything, this is the ONE thing you have to know.
fastboot devices will give you a list of devices connected to the computer. This is also a good way to make sure that your phone is actually connected to the computer.
fastboot reboot - this will reboot your phone normally
fastboot oem unlock - this will unlock your bootloader - NOTE THIS WILL VOID YOUR NEXUS ONE WARRANTY
fastboot erase XXX - Will erase the partition XXX (such as userdata, cache) - mainly used for resetting phone and clearing userdata / factory settings.
fastboot flash XXX YYY - This will flash XXX partitionn with YYY image.
e.g: fastboot flash system system_update.img will flash/update your system partition with an image called system_update
If anyone needs me to dig deep into using anything else, please PM me. I'll add it on here. Hopefully this will help all newbies about the basic commands and what they do.
FAQs (UPDATED Feb 09, 2010)
Q: One question about the Android SDK. Do I need it to flash my N1 or just to program new apps? Where can I get it?
A: Android SDK is not entirely needed to flash the N1. However, there are tools in there that you need. Adb / Fastboot etc. Although they can be downloaded by themselves, the windows version of the SDK also have the Drivers that are needed for android devices for USB connection. So, it is recommended to get it. You can get it from developer.android.com
Q:I have never experienced anything like this when I did a hard-spl on my winmo phone. Radio versions are included with SPL's, right?
A: Official packages from HTC did come with nbh packaging, meaning it is a all in one upgrader that will update Radio, ROM, System etc, it is very much common for active development area here at XDA to get the radio or SPL or ROM separately and independently of one another. And as such, you will most likely flash them seperately (who wants to wait 6-8 months). Also, since this phone is released by google, HTC will most likely not update any major Radios. However, it is very likely that we will be hacking in Radio updates or any other "updates" from HTC from their new device - HTC Bravo.
Q: Is there a guide for snow leopard? I'm kind of stuck.
A: I personally ran android SDK and aforementioned executable on both MAC OS 10.5 and 10.6. Like I posted, the commands and the executable names may be slightly different. I may call adb and you may find it as adb-mac. I am not going to write 3 separate documents for 3 separate OSes. You have to know that adb=adb-mac (on your mac), adb-linux (for linux) etc. And yes the above guide will work universally.
Q: Can i replace the splash image..?? (unlocking related)
A: As of the above date (next to the FAQ) no you can not. Issue is probably a few folds. One of them is that splash1.img is not going in due to security lock. Remember, you unlocked the phone. HTC will not like it. Anyhow, I like the current quad color X. If you are thinking of getting rid of the lock logo, good luck. Even if you can get rid of it, you will still have to overcome the pink text that says ***UNLOCKED*** on your bootloader.
Q: Can you run Windows Mobile on Android Phones?
A: With enough resources given, sure. Will it ever happen? No. Why? Windows mobile compiler and builder cost $. As a matter of fact, as of version 5, it was going to cost me $75 per device. That's one of the reasons why handset makers went to Android open platform. Android is free and universal so as long as you use certain chipsets and certain items, you are good to go. Can it ever be ported? Sure. With right amount of time and money anything can be done. But at this point, it's cheaper for you to go buy a windows mobile smartphone.
Q: How do I know the phone is bricked?
A: You can not brick a phone unless you are flashing Radio/SPL packages. Make sure if you are doing that, you follow directions VERY CAREFULLY. A bricked phone can not boot into bootloader, recovery, or into normal operation modes. You can not connect to a bricked phone via adb or fastboot. You can only see one screen on the phone and it will be the first splash screen.
Q: I have installed the Android SDK however, i cannot seem to get the laptop to detect the nexus. What have i left out?
A: Most common item that people forget to enable is USB Debugging. Settings => Applications => Development => USB debugging [checked]
Q: I have rooted n1. when I go to recovery to do backup, I get the triangle with the little green android guy, but phone is stuck there. I have to remove battery to reboot phone. What have I done wrong?
A: You still have the stock (shipping) recovery. If you want a different recovery (Amon RA's), download it, the from fastboot, run fastboot flash recovery downloaded_recovery.img
Q: Which step of the rooting / recovery procedure does it give root?
A: Root and Recovery are two totally different things. Recovery is a partition that contain recovery information. Stock recovery is what allows OTA updates etc. Normally it will search for update.zip in the root folder of the SD card. Amon_RA's Recovery or any other recovery images are there to enhance the traditional stock recovery. Amon Ra's Recovery for example, contains thing such as ability to update from different zip files, and backup/restore of your data/system.
Rooting is not done by recovery but is a kernel level access (simply put) that will give root or "SU". It is done by patching the boot partition of the your android device.
Q: What are the differences, advantages, disadvantages of the different ROM's?
A: They are all different. Some have some features, some are plain stock, some are made for bleeding edge kernel etc. You'll have to try them out and figure out yourself. I may make a chart of what they are (see the bottom at my signature - wiki) but with too many android devices, I will need some major help. One person alone will not have total knowledge of all the ROM releases. There are just way too many devices and ROMs.
Q: Which ROM will allow OTA updates?
A: Stock ROM WITH Stock Recovery.
Q: If the phone is SIM/carrier unlocked and you root do you have to SIM unlock again?
A: SIM/Carrier unlock has nothing to do with rooting your phone. You can still have root and still be carrier locked. Nexus One comes carrier unlocked from factory.
Q: How much space is there for apps? is using the sd card really necessary? (on Nexus One)
A: Search google? The phone has 512MB or space. That SHOULD be more than enough for you. If not, you have some serious issues. I do not believe you will not App2SD for Nexus One. Google did say during the release conference that they will update Android/N1 so that apps can be run/installed to SD but that requires some system and security changes (mainly to prevent pirated software - Yes if I write something, I deserve to get paid for it).
Q: When you do "flash zip from sdcard" or "fastboot flash image" does this merge and overwrite the files in to the partition?
A: When you update a software (via recovery), software my be merged. However, if you fastboot flash, just like the word flash says, it will flash and overwrite the partition.
Q: Which partition does "flash zip from sdcard" affect?
A: Depends on what you are flashing. It could be any or all of the partitions such as SPL, Boot, System, Recovery, Radio. You should study first before randomly flashing things.
sorry, got it!
blakestimac said:
i apologize if this is the wrong place for this but, but i have adb setup perfectly, but fastboot is not recognized at all. could i have missed something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I need your system info.
What os are you running? where did you get fastboot? what are you trying to do?
Don't forget fastboot boot for testing images. My most used command
I still have no idea how to use or setup adb i have downloaded the sdk and used fastboot and superboot to root my phone and am currently running the cm 5.0 beta 2 rom and want to learn how to use adb so i can enable the ram. Thanks, Joe
really a noob question here.....it wa easier with Hero.
i have installed the Android SDK
however, i cannot seem to get the laptop to detect the nexus.
what have i left out?
wishmaker738 said:
really a noob question here.....it wa easier with Hero.
i have installed the Android SDK
however, i cannot seem to get the laptop to detect the nexus.
what have i left out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check the FAQ.
dylanfan424 said:
I still have no idea how to use or setup adb i have downloaded the sdk and used fastboot and superboot to root my phone and am currently running the cm 5.0 beta 2 rom and want to learn how to use adb so i can enable the ram. Thanks, Joe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. I need to know what you actually did. I am not understanding what you are trying to do.
Can't run adb commands - device not found
Thanks for the info. I am having an issue with running adb commands. My phone is rooted via superboot and I tested it with Nexus Torch which works. Now I am trying to install the new kernel so I can run the wireless tether app... but I can't get any of the adb commands to recognize the phone. I boot the phone by holding the trackball and power button. I am in USB debugging mode. When I run fastboot devices, the phone serial number shows up. When I run adb devices, it says no device detected. And when I try to run any other adb commands they do not work, even though fastboot commands work. Any ideas? Thanks.
Sorry i was pretty vague before i down loaded the sdk and also installed the adb setup file included with the superboot pack but just have no idea how to get it to work and add things through adb. I tried typing adb commands into comand line with the phone connected to the computer but nothing happend. just said not recognised command so i just basically need a rundown of how to setup adb.
dylanfan424 said:
Sorry i was pretty vague before i down loaded the sdk and also installed the adb setup file included with the superboot pack but just have no idea how to get it to work and add things through adb. I tried typing adb commands into comand line with the phone connected to the computer but nothing happend. just said not recognised command so i just basically need a rundown of how to setup adb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a noob so can't offer much help...but I would make sure the usb drivers are installed if you're using windows....this probably should have happened when you installed the sdk, but you can also install it through the device manager and point it to the folder where the usb drivers are located. Also make sure the phone is in USB debugging mode. also you may need to reboot your pc. Make sure you have setup running when you run the adb commands. you need to be in the same directory as the adb file, or in the case of the superboot pack you need to type "adb-windows" not just "adb". you may also need to put .exe, ie adb-windows.exe.
pwnvds said:
Thanks for the info. I am having an issue with running adb commands. My phone is rooted via superboot and I tested it with Nexus Torch which works. Now I am trying to install the new kernel so I can run the wireless tether app... but I can't get any of the adb commands to recognize the phone. I boot the phone by holding the trackball and power button. I am in USB debugging mode. When I run fastboot devices, the phone serial number shows up. When I run adb devices, it says no device detected. And when I try to run any other adb commands they do not work, even though fastboot commands work. Any ideas? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You run fastboot from the white screen. Android on non-white screen. It's one or the other. It's ADB or Fastboot (depending on the mode of the phone).
dylanfan424 said:
Sorry i was pretty vague before i down loaded the sdk and also installed the adb setup file included with the superboot pack but just have no idea how to get it to work and add things through adb. I tried typing adb commands into comand line with the phone connected to the computer but nothing happend. just said not recognised command so i just basically need a rundown of how to setup adb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the directory where ADB/fastboot (SDK) is installled in your system path?
I am guessing it's not. If it was, just by typing adb alone (without commands), it'll give you a list of commands. Click here if you want to know how to change your system path to include a particular folder.
We're now in the age of nintendo pilots and point and click OS that no one knows how to use command lines and system paths anymore.
recovery
I have rooted n1. when I go to recovery to do backup, I get the triangle with the little green android guy, but phone is stuck there. I have to remove battery to reboot phone. What have I done wrong?
umplarry said:
I have rooted n1. when I go to recovery to do backup, I get the triangle with the little green android guy, but phone is stuck there. I have to remove battery to reboot phone. What have I done wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Answered in FAQ area.
seraph1024 said:
Answered in FAQ area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried that before I posted. I searched the FAQ again. Maybe I am a complete DA, but still can't find answer. I don't mind searching, it will help me to learn, but could you point me in the right direction in FAQ?
umplarry said:
I tried that before I posted. I searched the FAQ again. Maybe I am a complete DA, but still can't find answer. I don't mind searching, it will help me to learn, but could you point me in the right direction in FAQ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Q: I have rooted n1. when I go to recovery to do backup, I get the triangle with the little green android guy, but phone is stuck there. I have to remove battery to reboot phone. What have I done wrong?
A: You still have the stock (shipping) recovery. If you want a different recovery (Amon RA's), download it, the from fastboot, run fastboot flash recovery downloaded_recovery.img
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There you go.
seraph1024 said:
There you go.
[/B]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your help
seraph1024 said:
There you go.
[/B]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had it downloaded, just had not flashed it
I've been looking all over, but I probably need to check the HTC Dream forum or something.
How do I install a custom ROM? I know you have to adb push update.zip somewhere, but I can't find any info about this. Please help.
This is my attempt at a Bell FAQ, it is a work in progress.
Q. Why don't the instructions I found on how to do X not work?A. This is a development forum, sometimes things are written in shorthand assuming you know things you don't. At lot of things are specific to one carrier's phone or another. Sometimes things change and are now obsolete, something new was found, a better way of doing things, if you were not following it all along you are likely to be lost. Read between the lines, you are a human being with reasoning abilities, figure it out. Q. What should I do first?
A. Backup your phone. That means everything, especially your pds partition. Nandroid won't cut it and you have already modified your phone beyond the ability to get back if you can run it.
Ex. dd if=/dev/block/mmcblk0p3 of=/sdcard/backup/mmcblk0p3
Save your backup on your computer, create a zip of all the files, burn it off on cd/dvd, put it in a safety deposit box at your bank. Be prepared for bricking your phone. A lot of things mentioned in threads here are developed and tested for ATT phones, they may not work 100% on your phone.Q. What is ADB?A. It stands for Android Debug Bridge or something like that. It is a program that runs on your computer that lets you talk to your phone using special commands. Your phone has to have adb enabled, it's a setting under application/development.
Ex. adb shell
This opens a linux shell connected to your phone. Linux is an operating system for computers, it is also used as the base for android phones.
Ex. adb install file.apk
Ex. adb push file /tmp
Ex. adb pull /tmp/file .
Q. What is CWM recovery?A. Android phones come with a special boot configuration that allows for changes to the android system from a place outside the system. It is very corporate and does the job for official signed updates, but only Motorola and it's oems can sign the updates. Not much fun for us. CWM recovery is a replacement for the official recovery system that doesn't require signed updates.
You install CWM recovery using fastboot or moto-fastboot.Q. What is unlocking the bootloader all about?A. It is the means of putting CWM recovery on your phone so you can install roms and other packages. It allows you to flash a partition with mods and have the phone not soft brick when you reboot. When the unlocked versions of the atrix bootloader were found it started a new round of mods. A lot of the threads prior to that are now obsolete.Q. How do I unlock the bootloader?A. There is a huge thread already about this, see here.
WARNING: this is a permanent change to your phone.
Summary:
1. Download the archive
2. Extract the sbf inside, whatever it's called, that is the one to use.
3. Use linux sbf_flash or rsdlite from windows to install it.
3. fastboot oem unlock
4. Copy code fastboot spits out.
5. fastboot oem unlock code
6. fastboot reboot
You will see unlocked while booting and when you get into android you will have ~300MB of ram. This will need to be fixed. Also, you will lose all your data during the process, do a backup first.Q. What is fastboot/moto-fastboot?A. It's a program to access the phone and do stuff, write phone partition images mostly. The stock one can only handle tiny system images, pretty useless for the Atrix, xda member eval- compiled the motorola version for us that can handle larger system images, do a search for moto-fastboot.
Ex. moto-fastboot flash recovery recovery.img.Q. How do I fix the ram problem?A. I did up a CWM recovery zip to update the boot and recovery partitions to contain a kernel command line with the missing bit "[email protected]" added. See here.
There are other means of doing this, some boot images come prepackaged with the command line already embedded. There are ATT compiled kernels with a patch inside the kernel itself to do the same thing. You can search for those when you are ready to try things like custom ATT kernels on your phone.Q. How do I root the phone?A. If you are unlocked and you have fastboot flashed a version of CWM recovery, it is trivial. By that I mean almost impossible for newbies to figure out.
It would go something like this:
1. Boot into CWM recovery.
2. use adb shell
3. adb push a su binary to the phone.
4. mount system as read write as /system
5. copy su binary to /system/bin
6. make sure it has the right permissions, 06755 mode , user root, group root.
7. unmount -l /system
8. when in android look on the market for Superuser.apk, install.
Every rooting method out there is all about putting su into /system/bin with 06755 permissions, most don't work anymore since Gingerbread. If you are looking for a simple, no brain involved solution, you are likely to get something working and also something else you didn't want like a replaced preinstall partition or an installed busybox with different functionality for some important system commands. (Busybox may be more up to date even, but if it doesn't do what is expected of the older version, it's still not good.)
Another way would be to create a CWM zip that simply puts the linux su binary in system with the correct permissions. Some info about creating your own can be found here. Doing this is more involved that just doing it manually, but it would be a good practice for getting into creating CWM updates.
Here is a link to a exploit someone did up to root the phone when running GB. Haven't tested it, and with an unlocked phone it is totally redundant, but it's nice that some found yet another security hole in the OS, seems similar in result to psneuter, so be sure to reboot the phone to fix the exploited system.
Seriously, if you are going to be reading or posting in the development section of xda for an android phone, take the 5 minutes to become familiar with adb and a few linux shell commands, it will save you hours of confusion and aggravation. If you fly blind trying things on your phone without understanding what you are doing you are eventually going to get into a place you can't get out of and need a new phone or REALLY have to struggle to understand things. You were warned. Q. How do I get back to stock?
A. You can't unless you have a backup of all your phone partitions and can update your radio and bootloader to be stock. Once you unlock your phone, it is recorded that you did so by blowing a physical fuse on the phone. This cannot be restored, you will need a new phone.
What does stock mean to you? When I bought my phone it had a certain radio, the bootloader couldn't be unlocked, the android system files had certain versions, etc. Beyond the android system there are 18 partitions that I know of on the phone, most phones do with 5-6. Every ota update or sbf files take the normal files and change them to something else, non android partitions get modified or replaced.
I have some solutions for getting close to stock, do a search for Gobstopper. There is one for Bell 2.2.2 and Bell 2.3.4, use one or the other. These attempt a full back to stock operation, that means the radio and bootloader will be stock, recovery will be stock as well. (All the partitions that are on the phone are written over with the ones that were on my phone when I bought it, with the exception of partitions 3 (pds), 15 (cache), 16 (data), and 18 (userdata or internal memory), factory reset clears cache and data, you don't want pds touched or internal memory.) Unlocked will no longer be displayed when you boot and you will no longer have CWM recovery installed. You will need to install the unlocked bootloader again and fastboot flash recovery again if stock is not what you wanted. (Your pds partition is not involved in this operation, so if you made changes to it, either directly or indirectly via a sbf this will not restore it, your pds partition contains individual phone information.)
More about sbf format here.Q. What does the pds partition taste like?A. It's not really fit to eat. Now you know.
It is mmcblk0p3, a partition on your phone, it is mounted as /pds when android boots and contains a bunch of folders and files that nobody really understands fully but Motorola. Having a look at some of the files you will see things like your network physical address, bluetooth physical address. You will find threads where the display is all arsed up, cpu running at half speed, touch screen not working right, etc, all due to something going wrong with /pds. It is best to back it up and not mess with it. Restore it in an emergency. Maybe one day everything in there will be figured out, take a stab at it yourself.
See this thread by edgan for how to back up your pds partition.
See this thread by KeRmiT80 about attempting to fix your pds partition. Good motivation to see previous link.
Q. I lost network data access after flashing X.
A. Check your APN list, if it's not a Bell firmware you are using, it probably doesn't have Bell's APN list. Scratch that, you don't know what that is or how to check it.
It stands for Access Point Name and a big list of them is stored on your phone in one big file (/system/etc/apns-conf.xml), each firmware has it's own version of it. Your phone will get two numbers from your carrier's phone network to do a look up in this list to figure out what configuration to use. So say it gets mcc 302, mcn 610, it will check the phone and look up 302, 610 in the file and read what it says there and use that config to try to connect. Now, another thing is that the phone knows what the home network is by these two numbers, embedded somewhere in the system. A foreign, non Bell carrier won't have Bell's numbers in there so your phone will think it's roaming. If you have roaming disabled, guess what, no data connection. Your carrier should be smart enough not to charge you for roaming, never had a problem with that, but you never know.
Here are the apn settings you can enter manually for your phone, see Bell's support link.
Q. How do I get webtop over HDMI to work?
A. There are several threads on getting this to work on ATT phones and others, they are specific to the firmware being run on the phone. They involve copying two deodexed files to your system/app folder and replacing the ones already there. You will also need to clear your dalvik cache to get the new code recognized. They are DockService.apk and PortalApp.apk. If you are not deodexed then you also have to remove the .odex files for both.
Here is one thread for Gingerbread, in the zip there is one for ORFR that will get you to viewing the webtop on Bell GB, but applications don't load.
Here is another thread for Froyo that works, see the Bell specific bit in the OP. This does not work from Bell Gingerbread. To be continued...
Hoping the Mods sticky this
A link should be attached to the wiki as well. I will try to when I get home if it isn't done already.
shouldn't this be in general? or q&a?
Magnetox said:
shouldn't this be in general? or q&a?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably both. Most things referenced are in development.
Cheers!
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
y2whisper said:
Hoping the Mods sticky this
A link should be attached to the wiki as well. I will try to when I get home if it isn't done already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 this should be a sticky on either or both general or development...
cheers for this...this thread is going to help me with my youtube viewers BIG TIME!!
Very nice!
Keep it up NFHimself!
NFHimself said:
This is my attempt at a Bell FAQ, it is a work in progress.
Q. How do I root the phone?A. If you are unlocked and you have fastboot flashed a version of CWM recovery, it is trivial. By that I mean almost impossible for newbies to figure out.
It would go something like this:
1. Boot into CWM recovery.
2. use adb shell
3. adb push a su binary to the phone.
4. mount system as read write as /system
5. copy su binary to /system/bin
6. make sure it has the right permissions, 06755 mode , user root, group root.
7. unmount -l /system
8. when in android look on the market for Superuser.apk, install.
Every rooting method out there is all about putting su into /system/bin with 06755 permissions, most don't work anymore since Gingerbread. If you are looking for a simple, no brain involved solution, you are likely to get something working and also something else you didn't want like a replaced preinstall partition or an installed busybox with different functionality for some important system commands. (Busybox may be more up to date even, but if it doesn't do what is expected of the older version, it's still not good.) To be continued...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used this method to root the stock Bell Gingerbread ROM. Works on an Atrix too. It's a quick download and easy for those people who may not be comfortable with the adb command line.
http://www.psouza4.com/Bionic/
thx
useful for newbies
but can you put some more details about returning to stock and explain the pds partition in details plz?
papakilo10 said:
I used this method to root the stock Bell Gingerbread ROM. Works on an Atrix too. It's a quick download and easy for those people who may not be comfortable with the adb command line.
http://www.psouza4.com/Bionic/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Had a look at the script in that one, should be fine, doesn't install a busybox or anything like that. I don't care for Superuser.apk in /system/app myself, but it won't harm anything having it there.
Cheers!
ytwytw said:
thx
useful for newbies
but can you put some more details about returning to stock and explain the pds partition in details plz?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I added a few things, anything in particular you wanted?
I am trying to avoid step by step tutorials or spoon feeding everything, so people who are lazy/careless will have to attempt to think for themselves. It just leads to more questions, more laziness, and bricked phones, and I don't have the time these days.
Cheers!
***Root method for .621 update***
THIS IS FOR USERS WITH THE .621 UPDATE ONLY. IF YOU HAVE NOT UPDATED DO NOT USE THIS METHOD.
*****DO NOT USE WINDOWS*****DO NOT USE RSDLITE*****
Instructs are made by Skelente
1.) Download the latest Ubuntu iso for your system. Most processors these days are 64 bit, but if you're running on an older computer or do not know if you have a 32 or 64 bit processor I'd recommend doing 32 bit just to be safe (64 bit processors can run both 32 and 64 bit distributions, but 32 bit systems cannot run 64 bit distributions.) Side note: you can download other distributions, but if you do you will not be able to create the persistent drive using the USB method. It should also be noted that some older systems cannot boot from USB, most newer systems (post 2000/2001 IIRC) can boot from USB, however you should consult Google to verify for your system.
2.) Burn the iso:
2.a If you have a cd burner and blank disc, this is the easiest method but, again, you will not have a persistent drive you will just have a Live CD. Use an iso burner to burn to cd, then skip to step 3a.
2.b If you do not have a burner, a blank disc (or don't feel like wasting a DVD disc) but have a free USB drive (with at least 2 GB of memory, bit overkill but it has to be big enough to hold the iso + changes + the persistent "drive") then I recommend downloading either unetbootin or universal USB installer. Go to either web site and follow their instructions. If you use Ubuntu, you'll have the option of creating a persistent drive, which is basically a fake-partition that allows you to save files to when you reboot Linux after running this Live USB. I would recommend using a persistent size of at least 200 mb so we can save the SBF file and sbf_flash. If you created a persistent drive go to step 4. If you opted out of this, skip to step 4.
3.a So you have a Live CD now. If you have a spare flash drive, load up the 604 SBF and sbf_flash. Either way, you'll need to proceed to booting into linux, go to step 4.
3.b Once the respective application has finished, copy the SBF and sbf_flash file to the persistent drive listed in windows.
4. Now we need to boot from your Live image. Restart your computer. When your computer is booting up it should give you two options, "Enter BIOS" and "Select Boot Order" or similar. For my Lenovo Laptop, I can hit F12 to change the boot order, and from there I can select my USB port and it'll boot from there. If you do not see a boot order option, you will need to go into your bios and change the boot order manually. Again, you will need consult Google for this as the menu selections vary by system. It really isn't that hard to figure out if you go through the menus, but I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend and encourage you to google your motherboard's manual to verify what you need to change if you don't know what you are doing. You are responsible for any changes you make on your system. Your BIOS is crucial for your system to function properly. Once you have found where to change your boot order, select the respective drive (USB, or your CD/DVD drive). These will be listed by the manufacture name (so SamsungXXXX for a Samsung drive or PNYXXXX if you're using a PNY usb stick.)
5. When Ubuntu boots up, it'll give you an option to run "Live" from the CD/USB. Select this option. Installing to your hard drive could mess up your current OS install, and I'm not going to get into partitioning here. Once you've gotten into Ubuntu, select "Dash Home" in the upper left hand corner, and then type terminal in the search box. Click terminal, then open it up.
6. Now you'll need to get to where ever you have the SBF and sbf_flash stored through the terminal. If you chose to use the boot cd, and did not have an available flash drive, you will need to download the SBF from here, as well as sbf_flash and then extract them to the same folder. The default is "Downloads" and I recommend just extracting them to that directory for simplicity.
6.a If you had to download the SBF/sbf_flash, getting there through terminal is rather easy. All you'll need to do is type these commands into the terminal:
cd Downloads
chmod +x sbf_flash
./sbf_flash mb809-2.3.5.sbf
And then let the program do it's work. When it's done, go to step 7.
6.b If you already copied the required files to a USB drive, we need to get there through terminal. Type these commands:
cd /
cd /media/
ls (This command will list all the drives connected to your system, cdrom, usb, etc. If you used the Universal USB installer it will list the USB drive as "PENDRIVE", I'm not sure what the default is for Unetbootin but you should be able to figure it out and if you just used a spare device it could be completely random.)
cd drivename (obvioiusly this will vary based on the USB method, for me its "cd PENDRIVE"
If your files were just on the main drive, you don't need to do anything else but the following commands. If you put them in another folder, you will need to do "cd foldername" without the quotes obviously. When you're in the directory with both the SBF and sbf_flash you will need to do these commands (again, ignoring the '-'):
chmod +x sbf_flash
./sbf_flash mb809-2.3.5.sbf
And then let the program do it's work. When it's done, go to step 7.
7.) After sbf_flash is done, you'll need to restart your computer. Its recommended you remove your boot media (cd or usb drive) so that Windows can boot normally. If you changed the boot order in bios you will need to change it back to what it was before, otherwise whenever you have a CD/USB stick plugged in your computer will automatically try to boot from it, and get pissy if it can't boot from the media.
8.) Once you're back in windows you'll need to run the zergrushv4 root method. From there you can do whatever you want. You still cannot SBF to previous versions (602 or 605) and you cannot run Froyo roms.
Downloads:
sbf_flash
SBF File & root tools
*HELP*
If you flashed with RSD Lite and have no data here is your options...
Flash stock .621 sbf and...
Switch devices on your account to reactivate the data
or
Call verizon to have them reporvision your data...
Once you are on the milestone system you can flash a custom rom.
You must SBF in Linux using sbf_flash, otherwise .604's radio will flash over .621's and your phone will no longer be able to take or place phone calls.
Edit: It may just be data, instead of phone capabilities. But still, flashing in Linux is much easier than having to spend time with Verizon's incompetent phone operators.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
If you SBF'd using RSD Lite, you flashed the 605 baseband over the 621. I didn't think this would mess up texts/phone calls but just your data connection, but correct me if I'm wrong I'm just going from memory (I had a dx2, just been watching the threads.) This was a big problem for the people over at rootz and they had a few different tactics on how to solve it. Some were able to call VZW and ask the tech support to "re-provision their data" although that was with mixed results (it depended who ya got on the phone, some people had no luck and other people had their data start back up no problems.) You would need to sbf back to 621 and call from a separate phone, however. Another user (skreelink) theorized that it was merely the AUTH code that was being messed up, and suggested that (for those with a secondary smart phone) you just go onto VZW.com, switch out phones for your number, wait 15 minutes, then go back to the website and switch back to your DX. I'm not sure if anyone has had any success with the latter but I know the former worked for a handful of people (with others getting tech support who had no idea what they were talking about.) If you call and don't get someone knowledgeable, I'd just cross your fingers and call back another time and hope you get someone different.
link not working
anyone have updated link that works to download this?
yea i learned about the radio the hard way, but i found a quick fix... maybe...
If you flashed with windows and now cant get data if you have a old smartphone that is compatible with you plan just go online and switch devices and then switch them back. Saves from having to call verizon But some people may not have a extra
I am probably one of those people who will also need to use this alternative root method but I have a question -
I have been recently acquainted to this dilemma on my "new" Droid X. I mistakenly started downloading the .621 update on my Droid X . I quickly realized what was happening and pulled the battery before the download was complete. (data disabled on phone) . I turned off my router. I reinstalled the battery and turned off all of the data on the phone. I tried clearing the cache but get a message the triangle that it will try to download it again. I pulled the battery and do not plan on powering up the phone with any data connection until I can get some clarification on what to do . The phone has little value to me if it can't be rooted . Is there anyway to stop the train at this point and go back to .605 ( i believe that was the previous one) . - Thanks
bamx2 said:
I am probably one of those people who will also need to use this alternative root method but I have question -
I have been recently acquainted to this dilemma on my "new" Droid X. I mistakenly started the downloading the .621 update on my Droid X . I quickly realized what was happening and pulled the battery before the download was complete. (data disabled on phone) . I turned of my router. I reinstalled the battery and turned off all of the data on the phone. I tried clearing the cache but get a message the triangle that it will try to download it again. I pulled the battery and do not plan on powering up the phone with any data connection until I can get some clarification on what to do . The phone has little value to me if it can't be rooted . Is there anyway to stop the train at this point and go back to .605 ( i believe that was the previous one) . - Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you disabled the download you are still on .605.
Turn your phone on, quickly root it with Pete's Motorola Root Tools, install Titanium Backup and freeze the "2.3.3 Updater" application.
Afterwards, reboot your phone and you should be golden.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
nfazzdar - Thanks for the reply . I did a factory reset and that got rid of the yellow triangle. I then rooted as you suggested and installed TiBu . I really is too bad that M and V are pullin this cr#p .
I am going to update the post and host the files. There is also some extra stuff i will put up for download.
For people who don't want to pay for Titanium Backup to have the freeze feature, use a free app called gemini app manager.
Good to know. I think that I will also install OTA Rootkeeper as well.
deboyz1014 said:
For people who don't want to pay for Titanium Backup to have the freeze feature, use a free app called gemini app manager.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
using linux mint and have a ?
I've followed everything, I believe, but when I run the commands in linux everything runs then it says "reboot into bootloader" and just sits there. I've tried doing it in bootloader and get a message 'waiting on phone:failed Are you root? Can someone steer me in the right direction I gotta get this phone on another ROM. Thanks in advance.
BRANDENDEUCE said:
I've followed everything, I believe, but when I run the commands in linux everything runs then it says "reboot into bootloader" and just sits there. I've tried doing it in bootloader and get a message 'waiting on phone:failed Are you root? Can someone steer me in the right direction I gotta get this phone on another ROM. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly the same problem here too.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using XDA
landonotis said:
Exactly the same problem here too.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to either:
Code:
sudo su
./sbf_flash
or
Code:
sudo ./sbf_flash
Note: if using
Code:
sudo su
be sure that the terminal shows a "#" instead of a "$" after you input the command. This shows that you are root.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
infazzdar said:
You need to either:
Code:
sudo su
./sbf_flash
or
Code:
sudo ./sbf_flash
Note: if using
Code:
sudo su
be sure that the terminal shows a "#" instead of a "$" after you input the command. This shows that you are root.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When exactly do we need to input the code? I am assuming this is in terminal on linux?
BRANDENDEUCE said:
When exactly do we need to input the code? I am assuming this is in terminal on linux?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for not specifying, but you assume correctly.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
What roms can we use now?
Now that we have root and su on the droid x/milestone what roms are we able to flash? I know they can't be froyo based but do they now have to be related to the milestone roms, droid x, or both? I've tried a few and it's always an abort so I'm just needing some direction here...
BRANDENDEUCE said:
Now that we have root and su on the droid x/milestone what roms are we able to flash? I know they can't be froyo based but do they now have to be related to the milestone roms, droid x, or both? I've tried a few and it's always an abort so I'm just needing some direction here...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe this thread will be of help to you. =D
http://rootzwiki.com/index.php?/topic/21337-[ROMS]-Multi-ROM-Thread---Blur-Based-ROMs-for-those-on-.621/.604!
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5
This worked great.
Any cwm kernels are we able to use?
Just wondering if we can flash custom kernels since we can do roms? If so any help would be appreciated.
Disclaimer: By following this guide, you understand and accepts that I, and any developers mentioned in this guide, will NOT be held responsible in the event that your device stops functioning or dies. While I try my best to make everything as clear and concise as it can be, accidents will happen should you not follow everything like a hawk.
Installing Kindle Fire HD 8.9" 2nd-Bootloader + TWRP Complete Tutorial
I'm going to lead you through installing Hashcode's 2nd-Bootloader and TWRP in order to start flashing custom ROMs and make backups. First, let's go over the basics and why I'm doing this in the first place. I wrote this guide to be used on a Windows computer, but as long as you can do the same things on Mac/Linux, the whole guide applies. If there are any issues, please first refer to the troubleshooting portion at the end of the guide. The 8.9 version of the device does not need the factory cable to enter fastboot mode.
+Note: As of Amazon OS update 8.3.1+, there has been a lot of issues with rooting and flashing the 2nd-bootloader. Many users reported bootloops during the completion of the guide. Those with tablets running 8.3.1 or higher, please proceed with caution. I strongly recommend you make backups in Step 2.
===== 1. Why do we need a 2nd bootloader? =====
The stock Amazon bootloader doesn't play nice with Android even though it has Android at its core. We can still use fastboot commands with it, but other than that, it's quite locked-down. In other words, normal exploits used to unlock the bootloader on other Android devices, for example, like the Nexus series by Google or the handsets by HTC don't apply here. In order to use the same features, like a custom ROM, custom kernel, custom recovery, we must bypass Amazon's software by installing a 2nd bootloader.
===== 2. Why are you posting a tutorial? =====
I'm doing this because the lack of a guide means that people like myself, who are not proficient developers, keep running into issues and some ended up bricking their devices. This means that they end up with a heavy paperweight, with no chance of fixing, other than hoping that they're lucky with a fastboot cable (not the one that came with the device) and find their way back to the beginning. I'm sick of seeing so many questions about the exact same issues so I thought, why not just make a guide everyone can follow and thus make the world a better place.
===== 3. Do I need any special equipment/knowledge? =====
You don't need any special equipment, provided that you follow this guide word-for-word and be careful. I successfully installed the 2nd-Bootloader + TWRP and flashed CM10.1, within minutes. The key is make sure you don't miss anything, and if you're not sure, don't make any random guesses. As far as knowledge, yes, and no. Know what you're dealing with. Anything underneath the ROM has the chance to brick the device, so know what you're getting into.
===== 4. Can't I just use FireFireFire or another automatic tool to install the bootloader + TWRP? =====
Definitely not. This is the exact reason why there are so many threads in the Q&A section about bricked devices in the first place. Never use a tool that wasn't made for the version of your tablet. The Kindle Fire (1st gen), the Kindle Fire 2 (2nd gen), and the Kindle Fire HD 7" & 8.9" (3rd gen) are not the same devices, at all. Due to the way the bootloader behaves, flashing the files that are only compatible for the Kindle Fire 2 on a Kindle Fire HD 7" will definitely brick it. This is because the bootloader is so-named for a program that checks the booting process before the device actually boots, and if there are any bad sectors that don't match, the device won't boot.
How do you avoid this? By following guides like mine, and first knowing exactly what model you have. Yes, the Kindle Fire 2 and the Kindle Fire HD 7" look similar, and Amazon seriously have problems with their naming method, but a bit of research tells you that the Kindle Fire HD actually contains an HD resolution screen, 1280x800 for the 7" and 1920x1200 for the 8.9". Also, ONLY the Kindle Fire HD 7" and 8.9" models have a front-facing camera while the other models don't have one at all. If you want to be sophisticated about it, you can use working fastboot to identify the tablet.
+Note: if you know 100% that you have the right model, skip to Step 1 and begin the guide. This part is only for those with knowledge of fastboot and would like to confirm scientifically that they have the right model. You don't need to know how to use ADB or fastboot in order to successfullly complete the guide and install custom ROMs:
In CMD, type:
Code:
fastboot -i 0x1949 getvar product
Hitting enter will return with <waiting for device>. If you connect your powered-off Kindle Fire HD 7" or 8.9" at this point, it will reboot into fastboot mode, and on CMD, it will return with "tate-xxx-xxx" for the 7" and "jem-xxx-xxx" for the 8.9". I cannot stress this enough, please know your stuff before you end up crying about how you made a simple mistake that cost you $200, or however many in other currencies, but I do know that universally, it's quite a lot of money.
===== 5. What is Android SDK, ADB, and Fastboot? =====
Android SDK is a package with the tools for an Android developer to modify devices and collect data to help them create builds and maintain a device. Included in the package is what we commonly use around here in the development world, called ADB (Android Debug Bridge) and Fastboot. ADB allows a computer to communicate with a device by means of a USB cable, allowing a developer to push and pull data between the two devices, and this is the way some root methods are discovered.
Fastboot is the term we use to refer to a diagnostic tool built into Android. This is because fastboot is the first thing a developer turns to when their device is bricked. Factory cables are designed to power the devices into fastboot, and that's all they're really good for. While ADB is for communication between two devices, pushing and pulling data, fastboot is all about writing data into the partitions on a device. We call this process "flashing". This is only for the 7 version of the device, the 8.9 version does not require the factory cable.
Generally, ADB commands in command prompts start with "adb" (i.e. "adb reboot bootloader" which commands a typical Android device to boot into bootloader mode, another name for fastboot mode). ADB commands can only be used when both devices are fully booted up, and ADB debugging is selected on the Android device. After the device boots into fastboot, the device no longer recognizes ADB commands, only fastboot commands. Likewise, in fastboot mode, commands begin with "fastboot" (i.e. "fastboot oem unlock" which unlocks the bootloader on many Android devices). While in fastboot mode, the only safe way to exit is by typing "fastboot reboot" although the usual power button will be fine for most cases.
On the Kindle Fire HD 7" and 8.9", you will notice that the fastboot commands look something like this: "fastboot -i 0x1949 flash boot boot.img" ("flash" is the command to flash a file, "boot" is the partition to flash the file into, and "boot.img" is the image file containing the booting information). The reason why there's a "-i 0x1949" is simply because of the locked-down bootloader. After we install the 2nd-bootloader, this part commands the device to flash the files into the stock bootloader, because the 2nd-bootloader doesn't accept fastboot commands.
To install the Android SDK and be able to use ADB + fastboot, go to this link: Android SDK. After you hit download, just be patient, and you will need a video reference to help set up the package properly, so click here: Video on Installation of Android SDK. To check if it installed properly, once you're done with the video, open up a command prompt (for Windows, hold the Windows key + R, and type cmd, then hit Enter), and type either "adb" or "fastboot" and hit Enter. For both cases, you should get a block of text that tells you what each command does.
To check if your device can work with ADB, enable ADB on the device (may be called USB debugging), and connect it to the computer. If there are any drivers installing, let them finish. Then, on the command prompt, type "adb devices" and hit Enter. If your ADB drivers work, you should see a line of letters and characters. Same thing with fastboot. Always do this check before you start messing around to make sure your devices are receiving the commands.
===== 6. How do I boot into fastboot mode? =====
This relies on you having a working device (as long as it can boot at all, you're good). If you wish to enter fastboot mode to flash system images like new versions of TWRP or restore Amazon OS 8.1.4 if you've got freezing or bootloops, then you need a regular USB cable that came with the device, or any other mini-USB cable that fits the device and the computer. Again, you need to have Android SDK installed before you can use fastboot. Turn the device off, and leave it unplugged. Go to your computer, open command prompt, and type this:
Code:
fastboot -i 0x1949 getvar product
Hit enter, and it should return with <waiting for device>. If it doesn't, your fastboot drivers aren't working. Install Android SDK and go from there. If it does, connect your turned-off Kindle to the computer. Two things will happen: one, the command prompt will show "jem-xxx-xxx" (something there), and two, your Kindle should reboot into fastboot mode. From here, you can begin using fastboot commands to flash to the device's partitions. To exit fastboot mode, after you finished flashing what you needed, type this:
Code:
fastboot -i 0x1949 reboot
And that's all for the basics! Let's move on to the actual process.
Step 1: Rooting
+Note: Some users reported not being able to root on later software versions, so check for 8.1.4 in your Settings, if it's higher than that, you may have some trouble, which is why I provided 3 methods.
Before you can do anything else, you need to root the device first. Rooting is the process of acquiring superuser (administrator) access on a Linux system, allowing you to modify just about anything with regards to software. It is generally very safe to do, provided you follow the correct guides and you use the correct tools, and if there are no tools, the knowledge to manually root the device. On many other Android devices, rooting also installs a custom recovery, but the Kindle Fire HD 8.9" is different. You must root first before you do any modifications.
Go to this thread: QEMU Root by sparkym3, and download the necessary attachments. Use any decompressing software to unzip the files, and install the Kindle Fire HD 8.9" ADB drivers (this may fail, no need to worry). Then jump to your device, go to Settings and turn on ADB, then plug it into your computer. At this time, your computer should report that the ADB Composite Interface has been installed. What this means is that your ADB drivers work. Go ahead and use that thread's instructions to root the device.
Alternatively, you can use this if the first method failed: Root_with_Restore_by_Bin4ry, same idea. Make sure your ADB drivers are working, and that ADB is turned on in Settings. Open the RunMe.bat file, choose option 1. Now it will ask for your Amazon account password to restore, go ahead and type in your password and proceed. After the device reboots, it will be sluggish, now run the first method again, and you'll be back to normal with root.
You can aso try this: Root Kindle Fire HD with Windows
To check if you're rooted, when the device is on, go to the Amazon Appstore, install "ES File Manager" or any other root application, you want to see the window asking for superuser permissions. Once it installs, open it, go to settings, and turn on root browsing. If it asks for superuser permissions, you have root access, and you can move on to the next step. If the root programs say you have root, but you don't see the window asking for the permission, remember to go to the app listing, and tap on superuser to initialize the daemon, then try to check for root again.
Recap:
1. Download the root tools from the threads
2. Proceed to root by using the provided tools
3. Check if you successfully have root access using any root application
Step 2: Grabbing Files and Backing Up
Once you're rooted successfully, you need to grab the files we'll need for the installation. Go to Hashcode's thread: Kindle Fire 2nd-bootloader + TWRP for the Kindle Fire HD 8.9. Download ONLY two files: the TWRP recovery image, and the freedom-boot image. That's all, and transfer both of those to the root of the sdcard, now you can move on to Step 3: Installation if you wish to skip backing up.
I will go through the steps to backup. Remember that it is not mandatory that you do this; should you follow the guide very closely, you do not require backing up whatsoever. This just serves as an extraneous step for those who feel comfortable working with ADB and would like to participate in modding the device, in which case these files would come in handy in case the device is bricked. Again, it is NOT mandatory.
Connect the device to the computer through a normal USB cable, turn on ADB through settings. Open up the command prompt (CMD) on your computer: hold down the Windows key, and press R. This will open up Run, type "cmd" and hit Enter. Now, enter the following lines of code one-by-one, wait for a line to finish before going to the next one.
Code:
adb shell su -c "dd if=/dev/block/mmcblk0boot0 of=/sdcard/boot0block.img"
adb shell su -c "dd if=/dev/block/platform/omap/omap_hsmmc.1/by-name/boot of=/sdcard/stock-boot.img"
adb shell su -c "dd if=/dev/block/platform/omap/omap_hsmmc.1/by-name/recovery of=/sdcard/stock-recovery.img"
adb shell su -c "dd if=/dev/block/platform/omap/omap_hsmmc.1/by-name/system of=/sdcard/stock-system.img"
mkdir C:\KFHD8Backup
adb pull /sdcard/stock-boot.img/ [C:\KFHD8Backup]
adb pull /sdcard/stock-recovery.img/ [C:\KFHD8Backup]
adb pull /sdcard/stock-system.img/ [C:\KFHD8Backup]
Now open up the Computer folder, and in the C: drive you will find a folder called "KFHD8Backup" with all of those files that you just pulled in there. Once you're at this stage, you have finished backing up. Take that folder and put it somewhere safe, on a USB drive, or an external flash drive.
If you need to flash these to restore the device in case you have bricked it, boot into fastboot mode. Place the folder and the files in it back to the C: drive before attempting to restore (if you know how to use the cd command, feel free to change the location of the files). Once you're in fastboot, start with the first line of code to command CMD to locate the backups folder, then proceed with the second, one-at-a-time:
Code:
cd C:/KFHD8Backup
fastboot -i 0x1949 flash boot stock-boot.img
fastboot -i 0x1949 flash recovery stock-recovery.img
fastboot -i 0x1949 flash system stock-system.img
fastboot -i 0x1949 reboot
+Note: Be patient, as some of the codes take a while due to the amount of data being transferred between the device and your computer. If nothing happens after you hit Enter on a line of code or it just hangs at nothing, close the command prompt, open it up again, and retry. It might seem scary, but if there are no codes being executed in the command prompt (you'll see data transfers with kB/s and such if there's communication), it's safe to unplug the cable or close the command prompt. Feel free to reboot your computer, then plug the cable in and try again.
Also, know that these files, when flashed through fastboot, will revert your device back to the state of when these backups were made, so once you have TWRP, these files are no longer important. The backups you make in TWRP will be just as useful, and can save you both time and patience. If, however, you want to revert to a completely stock Amazon OS software for warranty purposes, or to redo this process for any reason, they will come into play because these backups retain your apps and your settings. Otherwise, use the KFHD System Restore Tool to go completely stock.
After you have backed-up (optional), and you have the two needed files on the sdcard (TWRP image and freedom-boot image, ignore the Amazon OS and the stack override files), you can move on to step three.
Recap:
1. Go to Hashcode's 2nd-bootloader thread
2. Download both the required files and move them to sdcard
3. Use ADB to make backups (optional)
4. Use fastboot to restore the images you backed up if there are issues
Step 3: Installation
You might have noticed that Hashcode made a pretty extensive thread to help you flash the bootloader, but another coder has since developed an automatic app to do all the work for you: FireFlash. Go ahead and download the .apk file. Move that file to the sdcard, and on the device, install it using "ES File Manager" (tap on that file) or "Easy Installer" (after it finishes scanning, select it and install), both found on the Amazon Appstore. You will then find it in the applications listing, go ahead and open it.
The first thing you notice is that there are spots to plug in files for different partitions. This is where those files from Hashcode come into play. Plug the freedom-boot.img into the boot partition space, plug the TWRP recovery.img into the recovery partition, and make sure to hit "apply stack". If you are NOT on the 8.1.4 bootloader (you'll see red letters warning you), then hit the check box next to that to flash the 8.1.4 bootloader, otherwise you'll see a red screen after you reboot. If you don't see that warning, you're fine, move on.
Check that "disable recovery auto update" box, leave everything else alone, unplug the cable, and hit flash (the first option). You will see a progress window, and just hit OK. Then, turn off the device. Now, when you turn it on, this is the way to enter recovery every time: the moment you turn it on, you'll see the yellow Kindle title. Immediately hold down the Volume Up button (leftmost from the power button) before it turns blue, and once it does, count to three in your head and let go and you'll see the TWRP splash logo. Once you're in TWRP, you're done. Just hit reboot, and everything's finished. Now you can browse the 8.9" Development forum for custom ROMs.
If you want to save space, you can now go ahead and delete all the files we just used; you no longer have a need for any of them. Keep FireFlash, though, because in the future you might want to update TWRP, then leave everything blank, plug the update image into the recovery partition and hit flash. Only use Hashcode's TWRP builds as of now, because he specifically altered those builds to work on the Kindle Fire HD 7" and 8.9" so the official ones on the TWRP site won't work. If you flash those (especially the "blaze" codename), you will brick the device, so don't do it!
Recap:
1. Download FireFlash and install on device using file manager or installer
2. Plug in the required files in the correct areas, and check the necessary checkboxes
3. Flash, and boot into TWRP to confirm successful installation of both 2nd-Bootloader and TWRP recovery
Step 4: Flashing Custom ROMs
This is what you've been waiting for, the ability to load custom ROMs. You have a few choices at this point in time. This list contains (somewhat, if not) stable releases only:
1. CyanogenMod 11 by Hashcode (AOSP, Android 4.4 KitKat)
2. ParanoidAndroid Port by jb2kred (AOKP, Android 4.2.2 Jelly Bean)
3. PAC-man by goldflame09 (AOKP, hybrid of CM + PA, Android 4.3 Jelly Bean)
4. CM11/SGT7 by twa-priv (CM + Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 mods, Android 4.4 KitKat)
Once you have the .zip files for the ROMs with GApps (Google apps, like Play Store), place them on the sdcard, and turn off the device. Turn it on, hold Volume-Up before the logo turns blue, and enter TWRP. Once there, immediately do two things: make a backup, and after that, wipes: system, factory reset, cache, and Dalvik cache. After these two things are done, go ahead and flash the .zip file, and wait for it to finish. After it finishes, go ahead and again, wipe cache and Dalvik cache, then reboot. After you rebooted, wait 5 minutes, then reboot again, and you're all done!
Now, in case your custom ROM doesn't automatically include GApps, and you would know if you boot up and you don't see Play Store or Google Maps in the app drawer, follow this. Go to this link. You will notice a table, and on the left side, you see the CM version that corresponds to the Android version number. All the custom ROMs should use the row that corresponds to the Android version. For example, CM10.1 runs 4.2.2, CM10.2 runs 4.3, so click on the one that corresponds. If your ROM runs 4.2.2, use the 4.2.2 row, etc. After you finish downloading that .zip file, move it to the sdcard, and boot into TWRP. From there, if you want to be fancy, wipe cache and Dalvik cache before flashing, but you don't have to unless there are problems after you restart. If there are problems, like freezing on boot, or crashing, then boot back into TWRP and wipe the two cache partitions.
Generally, you only need to flash the file and you're done, but you can never be too safe. This also applies to ROMs: if you're moving from ROM to ROM, say Ubuntu Touch to CM10.1, you MUST wipe EVERYTHING except the sdcard itself, and this includes the "Factory Reset" option. However, if you're moving from one update of a ROM to another, say a nightly of CM10.1 to a newer nightly of CM10.1, you can just simply flash the update over the old one, no wiping needed (this is called dirty-flashing). However, again, if you notice problems afterward, simply boot back in TWRP and wipe the two cache partitions. Remember to always make backups before you make changes to an otherwise stable build. If there are issues that you can't seem to resolve, you can always restore back to the previous build.
Recap:
1. Download .zip for ROM + GApps and move to sdcard
2. Boot into TWRP, make backups, and wipe the necessary partitions
3. Flash ROM, and wipe cache + Dalvik cache, then reboot
4. Wait for 5 minutes after successful reboot, then reboot again
5. If there's no GApps for your ROM, use the link to download the proper version.
6. Move the file to sdcard, then boot into TWRP and flash.
7. Reboot, and if there are problems, reboot back into TWRP and wipe cache partitions.
Credits: Hashcode, fattire, and verygreen for the work on the bootloader, stanga72 for the app FireFlash, sparkym3 & prokennexusa & Bin4ry for their rooting methods, and myself for the creation of this guide.
This guide/tutorial was extremely helpful to me as a novice, just starting how to learn to modify my Fire HD 8.9". I'd like to suggest a few changes/enhancements to the guide:
1. In the NOTE paragraph just below the first paragraph you mention issues with 8.4.1. specifically you mention issues with this release but there is no indication if these issues will prohibit successful update if the guide is strictly followed. Also, a cable is mentioned. In other posts I have seen references that indicate that no cable is necessary with the Fire HD 8.9". In fact, one post mentions that using a cable may, in fact, possibly damage the Fire HD 8.9".
2. Because I'm so new at this I'm very paranoid about making a mistake. I've read the horror stories in many of the posts and I'd like to avoid these mistakes. And because I'm so new, my only experience is with the 8.4.1 release and unfortunately it is so new, I suspect, that the developers have not had time to verify that their applications are compatible. I am not complaining since I know that 99.9% of these good people do this out of the goodness of their heart, and not for monetary gain. However, I do wish this issue of software release version could be more fully addressed.
3. Just an example - The heading clearly states that this guide applies to the Fire HD 8.9". Very clear and difficult to misunderstand! In Step 3 Installation, FireFlash is mentioned with no reference to a Fire HD operating system release number. Can I safely assume then that this utility is compatible with 8.4.1? It may be that the answer would be obvious to a more experienced person but to someone like me(and from reading many, many posts there must be a bunch of folks out there just like me), with little experience in flashing, rooting, etc.,I'm at an impasse regarding should I proceed or not proceed Thank you..
There will have to be some changes to the method to install boot and recovery on both 8.4.1 and now people are receiving 8.4.3 all the present methods will break the system, unless you have a Rom waiting on your sdcard to flash afterwards.
rebelduke said:
This guide/tutorial was extremely helpful to me as a novice, just starting how to learn to modify my Fire HD 8.9". I'd like to suggest a few changes/enhancements to the guide:
1. In the NOTE paragraph just below the first paragraph you mention issues with 8.4.1. specifically you mention issues with this release but there is no indication if these issues will prohibit successful update if the guide is strictly followed. Also, a cable is mentioned. In other posts I have seen references that indicate that no cable is necessary with the Fire HD 8.9". In fact, one post mentions that using a cable may, in fact, possibly damage the Fire HD 8.9".
2. Because I'm so new at this I'm very paranoid about making a mistake. I've read the horror stories in many of the posts and I'd like to avoid these mistakes. And because I'm so new, my only experience is with the 8.4.1 release and unfortunately it is so new, I suspect, that the developers have not had time to verify that their applications are compatible. I am not complaining since I know that 99.9% of these good people do this out of the goodness of their heart, and not for monetary gain. However, I do wish this issue of software release version could be more fully addressed.
3. Just an example - The heading clearly states that this guide applies to the Fire HD 8.9". Very clear and difficult to misunderstand! In Step 3 Installation, FireFlash is mentioned with no reference to a Fire HD operating system release number. Can I safely assume then that this utility is compatible with 8.4.1? It may be that the answer would be obvious to a more experienced person but to someone like me(and from reading many, many posts there must be a bunch of folks out there just like me), with little experience in flashing, rooting, etc.,I'm at an impasse regarding should I proceed or not proceed Thank you..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thepooch said:
There will have to be some changes to the method to install boot and recovery on both 8.4.1 and now people are receiving 8.4.3 all the present methods will break the system, unless you have a Rom waiting on your sdcard to flash afterwards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am aware of the changes, but I have not been caught up with the status of the methods and their effects on the tablets. I have placed warnings at the beginning of the guide.
I have two questions about Step 2 for backing up files.
1. Is boot0block.img ever needed? It looks like it is backed up, but it isn't referred to in the restore step (fastboot commands).
2. The "adb pull" commands don't work for me. For example, this error message displays: "remote object /sdcard/stock-boot.img' does not exist". But the files are definitely there.
Sorry about asking about 2! I was actually putting the brackets around the local folder, but I realize now that you only had them to indicate that parameter was optional. However, the error that was occurring before wasn't about the local file...it was about the .img file which did exist. I'm baffled because now if I put the brackets back, it only fails with an error about that, not about the .img file. I realize I'm not making much sense, but I can't reproduce it so that it says the same error that I first mentioned above in 2.
I'd still like to know about 1 though. Thanks.
EDIT: I did Step 3 - Installation. I booted into TWRP and did a backup. I assumed that I did not have to do any wipes or install of any other rom yet, i.e. I just wanted to boot the existing 8.1.4 rom that was already there. However, when I "reboot system" from TWRP, it goes into TWRP again instead of booting up the rom.
I tried doing a restore of what I just backed up, but the result is the same. So does this mean I was required to do the wipes and install of another rom, rather just booting up my existing one? Or is there some other step I'm missing to make it get out of TWRP?
sga999 said:
I have two questions about Step 2 for backing up files.
1. Is boot0block.img ever needed? It looks like it is backed up, but it isn't referred to in the restore step (fastboot commands).
2. The "adb pull" commands don't work for me. For example, this error message displays: "remote object /sdcard/stock-boot.img' does not exist". But the files are definitely there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Boot0block is backed up in the event something happens to that particular partition somewhere along the way, you will know if it does no wifi ect. Shift plus right click inside the folder that adb is located, select open command window here. Run all your commands from that cmd prompt. It will pull all those files to that folder location. Since you will know what folder it is to be pulled to this portion of the command can be omitted [C:\KFHD8Backup].
Thepooch said:
Boot0block is backed up in the event something happens to that particular partition somewhere along the way, you will know if it does no wifi ect. Shift plus right click inside the folder that adb is located, select open command window here. Run all your commands from that cmd prompt. It will pull all those files to that folder location. Since you will know what folder it is to be pulled to this portion of the command can be omitted [C:\KFHD8Backup].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realized more about the format of the 'adb pull' command and posted late last night. It's in my post above your response. Thank you for answering. Also, it's good to know about what boot0block is in case something fails later.
I also added another question there, wondering about why I can only boot into TWRP, not the stock rom I already had installed. I'm pointing that out again now, just because you(and others?) may not have seen it in my EDIT above.
Do a full wipe and flash a Rom.zip. Now you will need to
Code:
adb push Rom.zip /sdcard/
For obvious reasons just don`t wipe your sdcard .
Thepooch said:
Do a full wipe and flash a Rom.zip. Now you will need to
Code:
adb push Rom.zip /sdcard/
For obvious reasons just don`t wipe your sdcard .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can do that. But I'm curious to know why you're recommending this. Is it because I had problems booting up the old 8.1.4 rom and you just want me to try some other rom? Or is it that you know that what I did will never work, i.e. using FireFlash with the boot and recovery images and two checkmarks will never allow me to boot into the original rom?
Just "for fun", here's what I see when I try to boot. Times are approximate:
orange 2 seconds, blue 8 seconds, orange 30 seconds, totally black screen 2 seconds, orange 1 second (kind of flickers), blue 3 seconds, TWRP comes up.
My reason for wanting to do this is to "prepare" for going to CM10 (or other) "soon" but not quite yet. I'd like to keep the original rom for now and not wipe any data. Maybe this goal is impossible?
Thanks for your help.
sga999 said:
I can do that. But I'm curious to know why you're recommending this. Is it because I had problems booting up the old 8.1.4 rom and you just want me to try some other rom? Or is it that you know that what I did will never work, i.e. using FireFlash with the boot and recovery images and two checkmarks will never allow me to boot into the original rom?
Just "for fun", here's what I see when I try to boot. Times are approximate:
orange 2 seconds, blue 8 seconds, orange 30 seconds, totally black screen 2 seconds, orange 1 second (kind of flickers), blue 3 seconds, TWRP comes up.
My reason for wanting to do this is to "prepare" for going to CM10 (or other) "soon" but not quite yet. I'd like to keep the original rom for now and not wipe any data. Maybe this goal is impossible?
Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your system is broken for some reason the present method just does that. Flash Hashcode`s 8.4.1 zip. Disable OTA`s with kindlefire FirstAide or Free your kindle http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2072198 or even Soupkit http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2162973 . YOU MUST WIPE. Wipe factory reset, wipe cache, wipe dalvik, wipe system, flash Rom.zip disable OTA`s before enabling wifi or you will go in circles.
Thepooch said:
Your system is broken for some reason the present method just does that. Flash Hashcode`s 8.4.1 zip. Disable OTA`s with kindlefire FirstAide or Free your kindle http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2072198 or even Soupkit http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2162973 . YOU MUST WIPE. Wipe factory reset, wipe cache, wipe dalvik, wipe system, flash Rom.zip disable OTA`s before enabling wifi or you will go in circles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, Thepooch. If I have to wipe anyway, I may as well just go to CM10 now. The main thing I wanted to know was whether I had done something wrong or whether what I tried to do (i.e. not install a new rom and just boot into the original rom) cannot be accomplished by anyone. I think you are saying the latter, right?
I appreciate all the help you've given me!
sga999 said:
Thanks, Thepooch. If I have to wipe anyway, I may as well just go to CM10 now. The main thing I wanted to know was whether I had done something wrong or whether what I tried to do (i.e. not install a new rom and just boot into the original rom) cannot be accomplished by anyone. I think you are saying the latter, right?
I appreciate all the help you've given me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you got a free thanks so make sure you hit mine as well. I don`t believe you did anything wrong but I really could not tell you for sure. I have been stuck just where you are a couple times and I know I did everything right. Others I have helped became stuck the same way because Amazon has been diddling around with the boot for the last three updates. I can only assume that some encrypted part of the framework is running a stack check resulting in the system appearing broken. So yes it would be best to have something to flash before starting this process.
Thepooch said:
Well you got a free thanks so make sure you hit mine as well. I don`t believe you did anything wrong but I really could not tell you for sure. I have been stuck just where you are a couple times and I know I did everything right. Others I have helped became stuck the same way because Amazon has been diddling around with the boot for the last three updates. I can only assume that some encrypted part of the framework is running a stack check resulting in the system appearing broken. So yes it would be best to have something to flash before starting this process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thepooch, it helps to know that you and others ran into this. I did read posts that were similar, but I never was sure if anyone found an answer or knew what went wrong. This is a friend's Kindle that she got in December. I got it rooted for her back then, and I did whatever was necessary to not get OTA's. So it's way back on release 8.1.4. So I don't think Amazon's last 3 updates would have any bearing on this. But who knows! Again, thanks.
sga999 said:
Thepooch, it helps to know that you and others ran into this. I did read posts that were similar, but I never was sure if anyone found an answer or knew what went wrong. This is a friend's Kindle that she got in December. I got it rooted for her back then, and I did whatever was necessary to not get OTA's. So it's way back on release 8.1.4. So I don't think Amazon's last 3 updates would have any bearing on this. But who knows! Again, thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will have issues rolling it back that far, just saying there are changes that likely if not done properly will leave you stuck again. My suggestion is to flash 8.4.1 then create a solid backup when booted normal giving yourself a safety net in the event of a mishap.
Thepooch said:
You will have issues rolling it back that far, just saying there are changes that likely if not done properly will leave you stuck again. My suggestion is to flash 8.4.1 then create a solid backup when booted normal giving yourself a safety net in the event of a mishap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thepooch, I'm not sure if this is interesting to you at all, but I experimented a little and learned something. As you suggested, I flashed 8.4.1 and decided to try an unusual step.
After I used Fire Flash yesterday and booted into TWRP, I immediately created a backup. But it turned out to be no good in the sense that restoring it did not help me fix the problem of not being able to boot into the 8.1.4 (old) rom (I could only boot into TWRP). But now that I was on 8.4.1, I did a restore of ONLY the data from that old 8.1.4 backup. It seems fine so far, except for Google Play app, which just exits as soon as I execute it.....it's not a big deal to fix that. (There may be other issues, but I haven't hit anything else yet).
So....it seems like something is bad in either the boot or the system portions of the backup. It's probably system since it has framework, which you had mentioned might be causing the problem. Again, this may not be interesting, but I thought I'd let you know.
Makes sense google play rarely works from my restored backups and your system was in good shape if you flashed the 8.4.1 zip prior to restoring data.
Installing Kindle Fire HD 8.9" 2nd-Bootloader + TWRP with 8.4.3
Has anyone attempted Installing Kindle Fire HD 8.9" 2nd-Bootloader + TWRP running 8.4.3? If so, were you successful? If you were successful did you follow the procedure defined here or did you have to deviate? If you had to deviate, what were the deviations? Thanks!
How to root kindle fire any version (including 8.4.3) ONE CLICK
Hi I need some help.
KFHD 8.9, non-us user, but bought at amazon, i am unsure of the exact version.
ADB worked ok, device showed there. BUT "fastboot devices" didnt really show anything at all. Still I went ahead with it. Rooted using bin4ry, qemu did not work at all, permission denied error.
I did everything up to the point of flashing the freedom-rom and twrp through fireflash. It did not have 8.1.4 bootloader, so I checked the box, checked the other one and left all else as is. It seemed to flash ok. Then I rebooted,,, and its stuck on orange kindlefire logo, forever. doesn't matter what volumes i hold. tried rebooting and everything.
Now I dont really know what to do... any ideas?
Getting errors trying to install the drivers from the QEMU zip file, so no device ( sdcard ) access from recovery and the Advanced...sideload option is not working either.
I'm on windows 8, when plugging in the KFHD89 to my laptop, I see the kindle show up, but I have the yellow explanation sign. When I try to update driver software, i get error it can't update Windows ADB.
Between windows 8 and ubuntu, I've been able to get fastboot working enough to get all the files loaded...but for the lift of me !!! my copy of CM10.1 and gapps.zip are not seen via recovery...AND...I get stuck at Blue boot logo...so I'm sort stuck in recovery and need to get drivers sorted between windows and/or ubuntu so I can copy the .zip files over.
EDIT: #6 from http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2277105 helped me out. I was starting ADB Sideload and connecting USB out of sequence. Followed directions and it worked.
Hi,
I am in a bit of trouble I have a Motorola Edge 20 (2022) and I was playing with De-Bloater under Magisk. It worked really fine until I pushed the limit of how many Motorola apps i can remove. The last one was the wrong one, I think it was Motorola settings storage (provider) or so. Now the phone won't boot anymore and I was stupid enough not to back up the photos I made in the last three days.
I don't have TWRP on the phone (it's not available yet), so the Android recovery has to do. I saw that I can mount /system, but I don't know how to modify or even read it after mounting it. The internet is full of instructions of how to mount it and always mentions that you can then modify anything on it, but nowhere does it explain exactly HOW to do that
adb shell/push/pull just says "unable to... : closed"
The second option seems to adb sideload some zip. But what zip would I have to flash to disable the De-Bloater without factory resetting everything?
thanks
whoohoo! I jst discovered Safe Mode. Immediate problem thereby solved However, I am still interested in the first part of my question: how to use the mounted /system in Recovery Mode?
michael-brade said:
whoohoo! I jst discovered Safe Mode. Immediate problem thereby solved However, I am still interested in the first part of my question: how to use the mounted /system in Recovery Mode?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with stock recovery, youre unlikely to win as /data is decrypted (usually) and /system is largely unmountable and writeable (at least easily)
the usual prescription if you cant get into safe mode is:
Code:
adb wait-for-device shell magisk --remove-modules
from the bible (read on for TWRP ways which are 100% easier):
Magisk - Installation and troubleshooting:Magisk and MagiskHide Installation and Troubleshooting guide
didgeridoohan.com
which obviously removes all modules, even us experienced folks fond ourselves using the magical key combo to get into safe mode on occasion because we flew too close to the sun doping something in magisk
ironically debloating wasnt one of those times for me, i gave a log of what i debloated to the author of one debloater modules recently when he released a new version of his module and he was like "and it still boots?"...the list of debloated packages was at 135, and i could remove even more...
Thanks, good to know. But even adb wasn't able to connect anymore, Android got stuck even earlier.
However, I don't really mind if /system is read-only, I am more interested in how to (even theoretically) use the stock recovery. There is no manual and nobody said anything so far. So once you clicked "mount /system", what to do?
Lenovo (owner of Moto) has a online 'rescue' site that u can go to with your phone connected to the PC and it'll flash your Moto back to stock...prolly won't retain ur data, but it saved my a$$ a few times with my old twrp-less A/B slotted Moto G7. Can't recall the exact url but am sure u can dig it up with google.
Zaxx32 said:
Lenovo (owner of Moto) has a online 'rescue' site that u can go to with your phone connected to the PC and it'll flash your Moto back to stock...prolly won't retain ur data, but it saved my a$$ a few times with my old twrp-less A/B slotted Moto G7. Can't recall the exact url but am sure u can dig it up with google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm... but I can already do that without their help using fastboot. No need for the Android recovery.
Isn't it strange that there is a function we don't know how to use or how it works?