Related
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/24/archos-70-and-101-internet-tablet-review/
Just $49 more for cameras, kickstands, Android 2.2, less headache, and more.
What do you think? Which one is better?
Anyone used both? Or considering returning the NC for an Archos?
I was just talking about this subject with some friends.
Nook has a much better screen. A 1024x600 res IPS with great angles and crispness. The Archos 70 has a crappy 800x480 TN screen with really bad viewing angles. Screen quality in a tablet is probably most important to me. I want to be able to hold this thing any any direction at any angle and still see it, can't do that with the Archos.
The Nook feels solid... maybe a little too solid, as it is certainly heavier than the Archos 70. The Archos is reportedly very flimsy feeling. This could go either way depending on how much you value solid feeling versus weight.
The Nook has 512MB of RAM and it looks like 1GB or more of app storage space (unfortunately I didn't look at it before installing a few things). The Archos 70 has 256MB of RAM and only a measly 256MB of app storage space. Maybe the modders can fix that if they haven't yet, not sure. But that is a big downer for the Archos to me, I've already installed about 400MB of apps on my Nook in that app space.
Archos seems to have performance on it's side. It's CPU runs at the full 1GHz and it's running Android 2.2 already. My Nook feels sluggish with web browsing (using Dolphin HD), but I'm hoping the Nook update to 2.2 in January can help pep it up some. And maybe someday we'll get a 1GHz kernel.
Archos has a few extra hardware features like Bluetooth, HDMI out, better speakers, and cameras (though probably not a big loss if they are as bad as Engadget says they are).
For me the WAY better screen more than makes up for the slightly slower performance and other features the Nook doesn't have.
Connectivity. Vs. Screen quality... Pick your poison.
Ravynmagi said:
The Archos 70 has 256MB of RAM and only a measly 256MB of app storage space. Maybe the modders can fix that if they haven't yet, not sure.
...
And maybe someday we'll get a 1GHz kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to clarify, RAM, flash storage space, and CPU are not things that can be fixed/improved with software. These are determined by the physical chips that are soldered on to the board.
There are apps to boost CPU speed a bit, but you will start to run into stability issues if you bump it up too much above what the chip was binned at. A nice 2.2 build might improve things a bit on the NC, but the archos will likely always have an edge. Not just because of its higher clock speed, but also because it has fewer pixels to render.
candre23 said:
Just to clarify, RAM, flash storage space, and CPU are not things that can be fixed/improved with software. These are determined by the physical chips that are soldered on to the board.
There are apps to boost CPU speed a bit, but you will start to run into stability issues if you bump it up too much above what the chip was binned at. A nice 2.2 build might improve things a bit on the NC, but the archos will likely always have an edge. Not just because of its higher clock speed, but also because it has fewer pixels to render.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you mean the nk will have the slightest edge once it gets 2.2?
that all depends on what soc graphics chip the archos 70 has because the ti omap proc at 800 can go blow for blow with alot of 1ghz chips
I think most important think is amount of RAM - 256MB is just to little to get going with highend apps like Flash or games.
The Archos 70 8GB model "feels" flimsy because there is a small gap on the inside center, so this flexes. This gap I believe is from the lack of a harddrive which is in the 250GB model. It only feels flimsy when you push on this gap, however it doesn't twist or anything (strong structure), where the 250 with the drive feels like a brick.
Im dying for the update in january. Let's pray for some decent video playback the hardware is there. cmon!!
Sent from my Nook Color
candre23 said:
Just to clarify, RAM, flash storage space, and CPU are not things that can be fixed/improved with software. These are determined by the physical chips that are soldered on to the board.
There are apps to boost CPU speed a bit, but you will start to run into stability issues if you bump it up too much above what the chip was binned at. A nice 2.2 build might improve things a bit on the NC, but the archos will likely always have an edge. Not just because of its higher clock speed, but also because it has fewer pixels to render.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the Nook was using a 1GHz CPU that was underclocked to 800MHz. Maybe I'm mistaken?
Regarding the app space, that is a software issue though isn't it?. The Nook partitions what appears to be about 1GB of it's 8GB of flash space for apps. The Archos however only partitions 256MB for apps. Seems like a custom ROM on the Archos could change that up and give more space to apps, or so that is what they say on the archosfans.com forums.
Posted this reply in another thread ... worth repeating ...
While the NC supplier (B&N and it's mfg'er) have a limited track record, the record of Archos is pretty clear ... roll out products that target the 'latest trend' with software that is usually not ready and move on to the next latest thing within a very short time leaving a trail of unsupported devices. If you can live with buying a new thing from Archos every 9-12 mos and knowing support will be GONE after that then go for it.
As said the Nook may not turn out better, but it can't be worse. It has an reasonably up-to-date system now, larger memory, better viewing for it's primary mission. A70 just getting 2.2 and who know what bugs with it (seems to be bugs aplenty); A101 still not very available, what does THAT tell you?
If you want an android multimedia device then the Archos family may be a way to go, but evaluate it against multimedia devices since that is Archos' focus (assuming they have one), not reading and/or tablet functions.
Probably most people on this thread have reading as a primary, tablet second and entertainment third. The screen is really great, pdf reading is real good other than the swipe down instead of swipe sideways, with the Dolphin browser, root, su, multitouch what's not to like? ... did I mention the screen is great?
zdrifter said:
Probably most people on this thread have reading as a primary, tablet second and entertainment third. The screen is really great, pdf reading is real good other than the swipe down instead of swipe sideways, with the Dolphin browser, root, su, multitouch what's not to like? ... did I mention the screen is great?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lawl i bought the Nook just to Root. Ive got books on it an thats nice but since my phone died i needed a micro-mobile device so i wouldnt have to switch from tv to pc (1 button but im lazy) the Nook simply had the specs to get it done.
Only plus about archos is the BT for a phone but just the possibility of it for the Nook made it a done deal, Having the 60mb wing i know what Devs can do. The screens obviously the best part but double the ram as similar tablets is amazing, Ive loaded tons of 3D games an still have 200Mbs of ram, and the fact that you can drive to a B&N in most towns. (i hate shipping)
I think there both 7" form factor? but the sexy knock the Nooks got was also a winner
Archos is lacking ram an screen, but if a 1.3mp camera an knowing BT will work makes it up there you go.
Ravynmagi said:
I was just talking about this subject with some friends.
Nook has a much better screen. A 1024x600 res IPS with great angles and crispness. The Archos 70 has a crappy 800x480 TN screen with really bad viewing angles. Screen quality in a tablet is probably most important to me. I want to be able to hold this thing any any direction at any angle and still see it, can't do that with the Archos.
The Nook feels solid... maybe a little too solid, as it is certainly heavier than the Archos 70. The Archos is reportedly very flimsy feeling. This could go either way depending on how much you value solid feeling versus weight.
The Nook has 512MB of RAM and it looks like 1GB or more of app storage space (unfortunately I didn't look at it before installing a few things). The Archos 70 has 256MB of RAM and only a measly 256MB of app storage space. Maybe the modders can fix that if they haven't yet, not sure. But that is a big downer for the Archos to me, I've already installed about 400MB of apps on my Nook in that app space.
Archos seems to have performance on it's side. It's CPU runs at the full 1GHz and it's running Android 2.2 already. My Nook feels sluggish with web browsing (using Dolphin HD), but I'm hoping the Nook update to 2.2 in January can help pep it up some. And maybe someday we'll get a 1GHz kernel.
Archos has a few extra hardware features like Bluetooth, HDMI out, better speakers, and cameras (though probably not a big loss if they are as bad as Engadget says they are).
For me the WAY better screen more than makes up for the slightly slower performance and other features the Nook doesn't have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points here and everyone else. The low amount of RAM is a shocker, and is a dealbreaker right there. That makes me glad I don't have an Archos.
zdrifter said:
Probably most people on this thread have reading as a primary, tablet second and entertainment third.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
camwinnn said:
Lawl i bought the Nook just to Root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, same here, I bought the Nook Color with literally zero intention of reading anything. It's a pure 100% Android browsing/gaming tablet for me
-----
The only thing that gives me pause about my Nook Color purchase is the lack of Bluetooth and a front facing camera. One of my main uses for this device will be watching shows/movies while doing cardio at the gym. Using a wired heaset is dangerous as one wrong move of the arm and boom, your device goes to the floor. A Bluetooth headset and watching stuff on my phone was great (and safe).
And a front facing camera would be nice for video chat. I think all tablets will have this feature in the future and ones that don't will be knocked down a notch.
B&N have already stated that an update is happening "next year", informaton about it happening in January was not true, people seriously should stop repeating this.
In addition to everything written above Archos has a resistive touchscreen which is said to be really unresponsive.
candre23 said:
There are apps to boost CPU speed a bit, but you will start to run into stability issues if you bump it up too much above what the chip was binned at. A nice 2.2 build might improve things a bit on the NC, but the archos will likely always have an edge. Not just because of its higher clock speed, but also because it has fewer pixels to render.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The NC and the Archos Gen8s have the same cpu at different speeds. We've been able to run the NC stable up to about 1.15GHz. Froyo + JIT will go further than oc towards responsiveness.
As for bluetooth, the hardware is at least partially there. I'm still trying to figure it out, so if you know someone who's done ports to a platform with TI bluetooth send them my way.
Thanks for the information everyone, this cleared up my doubts and worries of purchasing the nc.
inferniac90 said:
B&N have already stated that an update is happening "next year", informaton about it happening in January was not true, people seriously should stop repeating this.
In addition to everything written above Archos has a resistive touchscreen which is said to be really unresponsive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So no update in jan?
Sent from my Nook Color
inferniac90 said:
B&N have already stated that an update is happening "next year", informaton about it happening in January was not true, people seriously should stop repeating this.
In addition to everything written above Archos has a resistive touchscreen which is said to be really unresponsive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the new Archos models (70 and 101) have capacitive screens.
jaydon34 said:
So no update in jan?
Sent from my Nook Color
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/barnes-noble-confirms-android-22-update-for-nook-color-updated/20759
//not allowed to post links yet
UPDATE: Looks like that confirmation wasn’t really a confirmation after all. There will be an update, but just probably not in January. Here’s the statement from a B&N PR rep:
B&N plans to update the OS sometime in 2011. Regarding applications, we are committed to the NOOKdeveloper program and on track to add apps to our store in early 2011, but do not have plans enable Android Marketplace at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
stwallman said:
Actually, the new Archos models (70 and 101) have capacitive screens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, forgot about that, but the viewing angles are still really bad
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/24/archos-70-and-101-internet-tablet-review/
I bought the NC over other devices for many of the reasons already stated (basically THE SCREEN), also because it has very good wifi reception. I believe I read that Archos was having issues with that.
Hi guys,
I'm looking at getting a replacement tablet for the TF700 which was going to be, no questions asked, the TF701. HOWEVER...
I have read that the Samsung Note 10.1 2014 edition spanks the TF701 a little on specs. Same screen, 3GB RAM, Exynos Processor Octa Core etc. etc. About the same price too.
I have to admit, I don't use the keyboard dock as much as I thought I would but do really like it. I would probably get the keyboard dock for the Samsung if I ended up with that instead. No extra battery though
The Samsung, so far, on benchmarking seems to beat the TF701 hands down although I've seen some reports of stuttering.
I guess the Asus is more 'vanilla' than Samsung with its Touchwiz interface. I have had an S2, S3 and now S4 so know how it is
Any opinions before I splash the cash and may be regret it? Will Sbdags be developing for the TF701? My bet is yes as he's ordered one
Thanks for any opinions or flaming hehe
Owen.
Owendavies said:
Hi guys,
I'm looking at getting a replacement tablet for the TF700 which was going to be, no questions asked, the TF701. HOWEVER...
I have read that the Samsung Note 10.1 2014 edition spanks the TF701 a little on specs. Same screen, 3GB RAM, Exynos Processor Octa Core etc. etc. About the same price too.
I have to admit, I don't use the keyboard dock as much as I thought I would but do really like it. I would probably get the keyboard dock for the Samsung if I ended up with that instead. No extra battery though
The Samsung, so far, on benchmarking seems to beat the TF701 hands down although I've seen some reports of stuttering.
I guess the Asus is more 'vanilla' than Samsung with its Touchwiz interface. I have had an S2, S3 and now S4 so know how it is
Any opinions before I splash the cash and may be regret it? Will Sbdags be developing for the TF701? My bet is yes as he's ordered one
Thanks for any opinions or flaming hehe
Owen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't personally like the Samsung. Chap at work brought it in and it looks a bit dated and I just don't like the look. Performance is good but the TF701 is about the same as far as I can see in benchmarks. I haven't see anything suggesting a spanking. The only thing it has going for it is the S-Pen.
But yes as soon as we can get a working TWRP I will be stripping down the Asus ROM and rebuilding a version of CROMi for the TF701T. Hopefully mine arrives tomorrow or Saturday
sbdags said:
I don't personally like the Samsung. Chap at work brought it in and it looks a bit dated and I just don't like the look. Performance is good but the TF701 is about the same as far as I can see in benchmarks. I haven't see anything suggesting a spanking. The only thing it has going for it is the S-Pen.
But yes as soon as we can get a working TWRP I will be stripping down the Asus ROM and rebuilding a version of CROMi for the TF701T. Hopefully mine arrives tomorrow or Saturday
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice, I will be there for testing if needed.
I got the Samsung before my Asus was released. I couldn't stand it. I don't care for the stylus and to much bloatware. Like a poster above said, a bit dated as well. The Asus looks like a Maserati compared to the clunker. Lastly, the screen is MUCH sharper on the Asus as well. They use a better screen. Also love the 4K compatability using our native resolution. So yeah, definitely a no brainer on the return.
Oh, another thing to factor, is the highway robbery that Samsung gets away with, from their outrageous selling price..
Sent from my New Asus Transformer Pad TF701T using Tapatalk HD
xRevilatioNx said:
I got the Samsung before my Asus was released. I couldn't stand it. I don't care for the stylus and to much bloatware. Like a poster above said, a bit dated as well. The Asus looks like a Maserati compared to the clunker. Lastly, the screen is MUCH sharper on the Asus as well. They use a better screen. Also love the 4K compatability using our native resolution. So yeah, definitely a no brainer on the return.
Oh, another thing to factor, is the highway robbery that Samsung gets away with, from their outrageous selling price..
Sent from my New Asus Transformer Pad TF701T using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info guys. Reading some recent reviews of both tablets, the Samsung is actually winning me over! Although the scare of 'fake' bench marking is a bit off putting to say the least. I have a Galaxy S4 so used to the bloatware (especially since 4.3 was released!) just wanted a tablet that performed and looked good at the same time.
Lots of problems with the hardware and probably software with the Asus. Even Sbdags says he's probably not getting the TF701t now!
Dang, what to do...
My biggest issue with the note is them using a pentile screen. I could live with the bloat and even the odd fake stitched back.
note 10.1 is WRGB not pentitle. TF701 not bad. But if you want use cook room. Must care about it. Asus doesn't have any tool to install direct from PC like Odin of samsung. If you have any broplem with recovery on TF701 that mean you'll never recovery it. My tf300T have bricked after update 4.1 and try to root. Not only me but also many people have same problem. With samsung easy to root and easy recovery.
Had the Samsung and returned it. Because of LAG LAG LAG! Read the threads! And the bogus benchmarks don't help their cause...
Sent from my New Asus Transformer Pad TF701T using Tapatalk HD
Ok OP your asking in the TF701T thread. Things like LAG haha "read the threads". Hmm lets just find one " it definitely has more lag than it should but I don't think it's as bad as you here are making it out to be." Shall I go on? So understand ANY tablet can have lag. Who in the world would bring up "bogus benchmarks" on tablets? hehe.. this is to easy to show. Search google.
I love the "dated" yeah the Note is running 4.3 and its so easy to get rid of the apps if you dont want them. Has two speakers not one, has a shorter battery life then the TF701. Cant run Tegra made games "yawn".
Never just take some person or reviews word. You get an idea but buy it for your self and test it. Look in to support on both. You will find Asus does not have good support at all. Search their Video cards, mother boards, read in Newegg or Amazon blah blah blah. Are you going to root? Asus is NOT the one for you.
There is one poster here that seems for some odd reason has to almost post in every thread on how perfect the Asus is. hehe. So SEARCH reviews else where not just here.
I think its a great tablet but has one speaker (talk about dated) and seems like this new TF701 is started to be like the TF700. Both seem to be slow in updates.
chanhny said:
note 10.1 is WRGB not pentitle. TF701 not bad. But if you want use cook room. Must care about it. Asus doesn't have any tool to install direct from PC like Odin of samsung. If you have any broplem with recovery on TF701 that mean you'll never recovery it. My tf300T have bricked after update 4.1 and try to root. Not only me but also many people have same problem. With samsung easy to root and easy recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pentile is a Samsung patented style of sub pixel layouts this include rgbw, it still lowers the effective ppi.
phage80 said:
Pentile is a Samsung patented style of sub pixel layouts this include rgbw, it still lowers the effective ppi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pentile Is only on Samsung oleds Screens. The note 10.1 uses lcd technology with no sub pixel.
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
Not true, Pentile has been used in OLED, LCD and even their plasma displays.
phage80 said:
Not true, Pentile has been used in OLED, LCD and even their plasma displays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't notice any lag on my Note 10.1 2014. I am on the latest update from Samsung. It is on Android 4.3 and they had 3 updates already. The screen is beautiful and text is very sharp.
I have both tablets and had to choose between them. For me, the Note wins...by a lot.
The supposed lag that a couple people have mentioned with the Note seems bogus to me. Both tablets are fast and only show lag in the same, rare areas. The TouchWiz launcher is surely more susceptible to lag than the Asus launcher, but only in a couple areas. If you use a different launcher, which I'm guessing most people reading XDA do, than both devices feel virtually identical in normal use. They both take 2 seconds to recognize an orientation change. They both take 2 seconds to show you the screen when you wake it up. They both have sub-30fps for the animation when a graphically-intensive app minimizes/maximizes (goes in to and comes out of standby, whatever you wanna call it).
So the SoC's are pretty close in performance...that is until you fire up some 3D games. Basically the Tegra4 just can't drive the WQXGA resolution in lots (most?) 3D games, at least not YET. Maybe some magic improvement will be made in the near future, but for now it's just not very good at all. And you gotta love how devs don't give you graphic settings in most games (probably because they are all iOS ports). Several games I want to play are unable to pull 30 fps on the TF701. I heard that there is an app that will force games to specific resolutions, so that could help but obviously we want to play at the native res.
I made a post here with screenshots of the framerates on my Note, asking for rooted TF701 users to post screenshots from theirs: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=47390158&postcount=9
Here's a little comparison I made earlier:
TF701 advantages over the Note 10.1:
Price - $150 cheaper for 32GB model
Keyboard dock - The transformer dock is excellent with next-to-nothing comparable on other tablets. However, quality of the new dock is lacking and was apparently pulled from amazon.com, maybe to address the quality control (rumor?).
Aluminum shell - If you prefer metal over plastic, this is a good thing. It feels nicer than the hard plastic of the Note.
Form-factor - Though the design is dated, I actually prefer the bigger bezel and tapered edges compared to the Note's small bezel and iPad1/GalaxyS4-style squared edges. The TF701 feels easier to hold even though it's heavier.
Easy-to-unlock bootloader - The Note 10.1 is rootable but I haven't looked into it yet. Meanwhile, Asus gives you the bootloader unlocking tool, so it's easy as long as you don't mind voiding your warranty. Not really sure if this is such a great advantage honestly.
Better support from XDA - Apparently the Exynos chips are hard to work with and get less attention here on XDA, so the Tegra4 based TF701 should see more community support.
Note 10.1 advantages over TF701:
Faster 3D graphics - The TF701 is just a hair too slow for most of the games (under 25 fps in many games) I tried, while the Note 10.1 is consistently faster and is just fast enough for most of the games I tried (consistently over or around 30 fps).
Better Speakers - Stereo speakers > mono speaker. Also, edge-mounted > rear-mounted.
IR blaster - Handy for controlling home theater devices and other stuff.
Smaller & lighter - 45g lighter is less than 10%, but it's still noticeable. The short-edge bezels are about half the width of the TF701's, while the long-edge bezels are about 2/3rds the width.
Screen - It's brighter. Despite gsmarena claiming 755 nits from the TF701 (ASUS Transformer Pad TF701T review: Full throttle - GSMArena.com), it is not quite as bright as the Note 10.1. With the TF701 using "outdoor mode" and set to 50% brightness, and the Note set to 50% brightness, the Note is WAY brighter, not like that matters or is telling us anything about the max brightness. The TF701 is just really dim at 50% and below for whatever reason even with outdoor mode on, but that's just the scale Asus decided on. With both set to 100% with no power saving, the difference is not much, but the Note is still brighter (and neither one is anywhere near 755 nits).
The contrast levels are clearly better on the Note, mostly due to darker black levels and more saturation. Colors are better on the Note, too. The colors on the TF701 are washed-out until you set it to VIVID color, then they are more saturated but not very accurate (reds look pale still and seem to bleed). On auto-brightness, the TF701 jumps around abruptly in brightness, which wouldn't bother me except it jumps too much at-a-time to where it's distracting and annnoying. Meanwhile, the Note has a smooth, gradual brightness change to it like most devices I've used.
Gorilla Glass 3 in the Note, no one seems sure of what the Asus uses, maybe GG2?
Not sure about reflectiveness. They both seem pretty dang reflective to me. Does gorilla glass 3 offer any anti-reflectiveness?
RAM - 3GB vs 2GB
Camera - The Note snaps better pics than the TF701 in my fluorescently-lit office setting. I didn't take them outside to test. The TF701 pics were really grainy and smudgey, while the Note pics were not nearly as grainy and not smudgey at all, though still weren't that great. I was using default settings on each tablet, so auto-everything. The Note also takes pics faster when using burst. Plus it has a flash and 8MP versus no flash and 5MP. The MP don't really matter here since the 5MP pics (actually 4MP when doing 16:10) fit the tablet screen perfectly (I think), so 5MP is enough for me.
Haptic feedback - TF701 has none, just like iPad. I miss it when typing especially, but also when gaming.
MicroUSB vs proprietary - I know a microUSB port wouldn't really work for the TF701 because of the docking needs, but they could have put a microUSB port elsewhere on the tablet for convenience. The Note has moved away from the proprietary port in favor of microUSB, which makes it more convenient to charge or transfer files since I have a dozen microUSB cables and chargers placed strategically around the house and in backpacks and whatnot.
S-Pen - Some find this to be a gimmick, but it can be pretty useful. It gives me a good excuse to bring it to meetings for taking notes. Useful if you can't or don't want to touch the screen, like when eating, but you need to interact with the device.
Multi-window - I know the Asus has some floating widgets that kind of act like multi-window, but it's not quite as useful. Granted, I might never utilize multi-window, but maybe I will. This is kind of a gimmicky feature, but probably works well since it has 3GB of RAM to play with.
Availability - The TF701 suddenly showed up on newegg.com and bestbuy.com on Monday this week. Best Buy isn't going to carry any TF701's in-store. Pretty sure Target and other box-stores won't carry it either, so good luck getting your hands on one prior to purchasing. Meanwhile the Note 10.1 is at all the usual stores. If the TF701 was at a store where I could have tested some 3D games, I would have known about the poor performance and wouldn't be paying a restocking fee to Newegg. Oh well, live and learn.
I've bought and been disappointed by the top two Transformers now (TF700 & TF701), so I'd like to think I've learned and will not buy another Asus tablet. I should have waited for some more testimony from TF701 owners before purchasing it I guess. Benchmarks and anecdotal exaggerations of the TF701's performance should not have convinced me. There just isn't much info out there about the framerates of 3d games on the TF701. The closest thing to that is a post I made where I show the FPS of several games on my Note, but I can't install FPS Meter on the TF701 since it requires root and I'm returning it so I can't root it. I am a pretty good estimate of FPS though, and I can tell you the TF701 gets trounced in several games by the Note, and doesn't best the Note in any games I tried. IronMan3, for example, plays horribly on the TF701, going under 10 fps during gameplay frequently (every time you fly by a reflective tanker truck at stuff) and looks like a slideshow 4 fps during part of the intro sequence, while the Note pulls over 20 fps in the same intro sequence.
snake2332 said:
I have both tablets and had to choose between them. For me, the Note wins...by a lot.
The supposed lag that a couple people have mentioned with the Note seems bogus to me. Both tablets are fast and only show lag in the same, rare areas. The TouchWiz launcher is surely more susceptible to lag than the Asus launcher, but only in a couple areas. If you use a different launcher, which I'm guessing most people reading XDA do, than both devices feel virtually identical in normal use. They both take 2 seconds to recognize an orientation change. They both take 2 seconds to show you the screen when you wake it up. They both have sub-30fps for the animation when a graphically-intensive app minimizes/maximizes (goes in to and comes out of standby, whatever you wanna call it).
So the SoC's are pretty close in performance...that is until you fire up some 3D games. Basically the Tegra4 just can't drive the WQXGA resolution in lots (most?) 3D games, at least not YET. Maybe some magic improvement will be made in the near future, .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compared to my TF700T my TF701T is a speed demon. My games are now lag free. You guys are too quick to jump ship for problems I'm not even experiencing. Especially, when we all know the 4.3 update vastly improves 3D gaming performance..
Faster, Smoother, More Responsive
Android 4.3 builds on the performance improvements already included in Jelly Bean — vsync timing, triple buffering, reduced touch latency, CPU input boost, and hardware-accelerated 2D rendering — and adds new optimizations that make Android even faster.
For a graphics performance boost, the hardware-accelerated 2D renderer now optimizes the stream of drawing commands, transforming it into a more efficient GPU format by rearranging and merging draw operations. For multithreaded processing, the renderer can also now use multithreading across multiple CPU cores to perform certain tasks.
Android 4.3 also improves rendering for shapes and text. Shapes such as circles and rounded rectangles are now rendered at higher quality in a more efficient manner. Optimizations for text include increased performance when using multiple fonts or complex glyph sets (CJK), higher rendering quality when scaling text, and faster rendering of drop shadows.
Improved window buffer allocation results in a faster image buffer allocation for your apps, reducing the time taken to start rendering when you create a window.
For highest-performance graphics, Android 4.3 introduces support for OpenGL ES 3.0 and makes it accessible to apps through both framework and native APIs. On supported devices, the hardware accelerated 2D rendering engine takes advantage of OpenGL ES 3.0 to optimize texture management and increase gradient rendering fidelity.
OpenGL ES 3.0 for High-Performance Graphics
Android 4.3 introduces platform support for Khronos OpenGL ES 3.0, providing games and other apps with highest-performance 2D and 3D graphics capabilities on supported devices. You can take advantage of OpenGL ES 3.0 and related EGL extensions using either framework APIs or native API bindings through the Android Native Development Kit (NDK).
Key new functionality provided in OpenGL ES 3.0 includes acceleration of advanced visual effects, high quality ETC2/EAC texture compression as a standard feature, a new version of the GLSL ES shading language with integer and 32-bit floating point support, advanced texture rendering, and standardized texture size and render-buffer formats.
You can use the OpenGL ES 3.0 APIs to create highly complex, highly efficient graphics that run across a range of compatible Android devices, and you can support a single, standard texture-compression format across those devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"You can't compare apples to oranges until you have both oranges, side by side, that are equal "
Sent from my Transformer Infinity TF701T using Tapatalk HD
@ snake2332
You mention that the price difference is $ 150,- compared to the note 2014 ed.
But you forgot to tell that the TF710 comes here standard with a dock for that price and the Note 2014 ed. has none.
So everyone must decide by himself what the best buy is.
The wacky dock connection will be solved for sure by Asus and the build quality is for the rest (I have my second one due to the dock problem) excellent.
Be sure the Note has it flaws also (laggy due to their own interface) just read their thread.
So what will it be: TF701 with dock + extra battery for 4 hrs extra or the Note 2014 without dock with laggy touchwiz but with (for now) better gaming performance for $ 150,- more......
Since you're an xda member I would assume that you root and flash roms and such?
You won't see much dev work on the note with its Exynos chip, Samsung doesn't feel that they should be as open sourced with their chips.
You will get much more dev attention with the Asus.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Snah001 said:
@ snake2332
You mention that the price difference is $ 150,- compared to the note 2014 ed.
But you forgot to tell that the TF710 comes here standard with a dock for that price and the Note 2014 ed. has none.
So everyone must decide by himself what the best buy is.
The wacky dock connection will be solved for sure by Asus and the build quality is for the rest (I have my second one due to the dock problem) excellent.
Be sure the Note has it flaws also (laggy due to their own interface) just read their thread.
So what will it be: TF701 with dock + extra battery for 4 hrs extra or the Note 2014 without dock with laggy touchwiz but with (for now) better gaming performance for $ 150,- more......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't forget to tell anything other than those prices were in the USA. In this country, the TF701 is $450 with no dock while the Note is $600. This doesn't mean that the TF701 is a better buy just because it's 25% cheaper unless all you're looking for is storage capacity.
I agree the build quality is decent, especially once they recall the bad docks or whatever they are currently doing. I didn't get a dock, so I can't add to that discussion.
Yep I know the Note has flaws, too. It is not laggy due to their own interface unless you basically run it like stock, where all the widgets are enabled and huge and all the features are turned on. Almost no one that reads XDA is going to use TouchWiz as the launcher, though, so the argument that the Note is laggy has no real weight in my mind. Sure, Grandma Marge over here might just use TouchWiz as-is and not delete any widgets or change any options, but seriously the Note isn't laggy no matter how badly your closed-mind tries to make it that way.
---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------
donharden2002 said:
Since you're an xda member I would assume that you root and flash roms and such?
You won't see much dev work on the note with its Exynos chip, Samsung doesn't feel that they should be as open sourced with their chips.
You will get much more dev attention with the Asus.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh interesting, I didn't know that. I will update the TF701 advantages to reflect.
---------- Post added at 03:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------
xRevilatioNx said:
Compared to my TF700T my TF701T is a speed demon. My games are now lag free. You guys are too quick to jump ship for problems I'm not even experiencing. Especially, when we all know the 4.3 update vastly improves 3D gaming performance..
Quote:
Faster, Smoother, More Responsive
Android 4.3 builds on the performance improvements already included in Jelly Bean — vsync timing, triple buffering, reduced touch latency, CPU input boost, and hardware-accelerated 2D rendering — and adds new optimizations that make Android even faster.
For a graphics performance boost, the hardware-accelerated 2D renderer now optimizes the stream of drawing commands, transforming it into a more efficient GPU format by rearranging and merging draw operations. For multithreaded processing, the renderer can also now use multithreading across multiple CPU cores to perform certain tasks.
Android 4.3 also improves rendering for shapes and text. Shapes such as circles and rounded rectangles are now rendered at higher quality in a more efficient manner. Optimizations for text include increased performance when using multiple fonts or complex glyph sets (CJK), higher rendering quality when scaling text, and faster rendering of drop shadows.
Improved window buffer allocation results in a faster image buffer allocation for your apps, reducing the time taken to start rendering when you create a window.
For highest-performance graphics, Android 4.3 introduces support for OpenGL ES 3.0 and makes it accessible to apps through both framework and native APIs. On supported devices, the hardware accelerated 2D rendering engine takes advantage of OpenGL ES 3.0 to optimize texture management and increase gradient rendering fidelity.
OpenGL ES 3.0 for High-Performance Graphics
Android 4.3 introduces platform support for Khronos OpenGL ES 3.0, providing games and other apps with highest-performance 2D and 3D graphics capabilities on supported devices. You can take advantage of OpenGL ES 3.0 and related EGL extensions using either framework APIs or native API bindings through the Android Native Development Kit (NDK).
Key new functionality provided in OpenGL ES 3.0 includes acceleration of advanced visual effects, high quality ETC2/EAC texture compression as a standard feature, a new version of the GLSL ES shading language with integer and 32-bit floating point support, advanced texture rendering, and standardized texture size and render-buffer formats.
You can use the OpenGL ES 3.0 APIs to create highly complex, highly efficient graphics that run across a range of compatible Android devices, and you can support a single, standard texture-compression format across those devices.
"You can't compare apples to oranges until you have both oranges, side by side, that are equal "
Sent from my Transformer Infinity TF701T using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 4.3 update will improve performance in games once the games update to include ES 3.0 functions, but not on any Tegra4 devices. Don't you know that the Tegra4 is not compliant with 3.0? NVIDIA is blowing off ES 3.0 support until their Tegra5, at which point there will actually be games that use ES 3.0. So no, the 4.3 update isn't going to do jack for the TF701...ever. Sorry for pointing out this revelation to you.
@ snake2332
You can't say I don't have a dock so it is no part in the decision.
In most countries it comes with the dock so it is part of the decision specially because of the 4 hrs extra battery time you gain.
With the same ease as you leave out the dock I can tell you that I have had the Note 2014 for an extended period in my hands, I can say it is laggy.
Only thing you tell is you have to switch off several widgets, apps etc. to let the Note not be laggy but where is the common sense here?
Well the TF701 comes with no lag and all features still enabled.
So when you compare, compare it equally and not let out things because it is not important or that you never use it or not have it (dock).
So be happy with your Note for much more money and let others enjoy their TF701 with dock and extra 4 hrs battery time.
In the end it comes to personal preferences.
Yours are totally different than the ones that most people use to make the choice for a TF701 and that is extra dock with extra battery and with very usable keyboard for 25% less money.
They are waiting until Tegra 5 because games won't be ready for ES 3.0 for almost another 2 years. It's cost effective for them. Why put it in when it isn't utilized yet lol.
We finally have a competitive GPU architecture from NVIDIA. It’s hardly industry leading in terms of specs, but there’s a good amount of the 80mm^2 die dedicated towards pixel and vertex shading hardware. There's also a new L2 texture cache that helps improve overall bandwidth efficiency.
With Tegra 4, complaints about memory bandwidth can finally be thrown out the window. The Tegra 4 SoC features two 32-bit LPDDR3 memory interfaces, bringing it up to par with the competition.
For users today, the lack of OpenGL ES 3.0 support likely doesn’t matter - but it’ll matter more in a year or two when game developers start using OpenGL ES 3.0. NVIDIA is fully capable of building an OpenGL ES 3.0 enabled GPU, and I suspect the resistance here boils down to wanting to win performance comparisons today without making die size any larger than it needs to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Transformer Infinity TF701T using Tapatalk HD
I had bought a Nook HD+ to be the replacement for my aging 1st generation Kindle Fire (Otter) tablet. However after having had it for 6 months now I've been rather disappointed with it. On paper it should have been better than my OG KF in every way but in reality that has not been true.
Nook HD+
Released 2012
1.50GHz TI OMAP 4470 (ARM Cortex A9 + PowerVR SGX 544)
1 GB of memory
32 GB storage (controller without issue too)
CM11 Nightly 2014.08.02 installed to internal storage
Davlik, stock kernel, not overclocked
Kindle Fire
Released 2011
1GHz TI OMAP 4430 (ARM Cortex A9 + PowerVR SGX540)
512 MB of memory
8 GB storage
CM11 Nightly 2014.08.02 installed to internal storage
Davlik, stock kernel, not overclocked
Whenever it comes to anything relating to the screen though this old as dirt KF tablet still performs better than this much newer and on paper better device. The Nook HD+ is obviously better as most apps perform much better like browsing FB app, looking at web pages with lots of content, running any number of non-visual intensive apps.
Places the Nook HD+ bogs down.
Paging around in the home screen stutters when loading icons even if the page has already been loaded.
Closing an app and returning to the home screen is extremely sluggish and then requires reloading of each page.
The boot animation is completely embarrassing, it jitters and skips like it's been beaten to death.
Scrolling through large pages of data in Chrome jitters rather badly.
Some games with intensive video requirements are just nasty at times. Running really slow or slowing down over time.
This video shows the KF next to the Nook HD+ to show how horrible the start animation is. After loading I page left then right and you can see the home page stutter on loading the icons when I come back left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEJK-VUZunk
This video shows loading PvZ 2 where just the loading screens alone are running slower and jitter more. Then when loaded menus take longer to load and are very jittery compared to the KF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCG8GKIWyso
Note - I even removed the overclock from the KF for these tests.
I realize the resolution is greater on the HD+ than the KF but the Amazon KF HD 8.9" uses the same hardware as the HD+ and it doesn't have the same issues. I also recall when running the stock firmware the system was much more responsive than it is under CM11 (any version).
This really seems like a lack of a good video driver or something wrong with the memory management.
I'm looking for serious discussion on this and not "well mine works fine so it must be yours..." or suggestions of running some random ROM or running TRIM or tweaking some random setting. This is something more than basic settings as I've already tried several over the last 6 months along with fresh installs of CM.
Your hd+ looks normal. I wouldn't think about it too much as its more than likely not getting better than that.
I just bought a new phone and the hardware made android so much more snappier then it was on the last one no matter how much people had tweaked the roms.
Just how it is. Its a cheap tablet with a nice size screen and hardware not quite capable.
sandsofmyst said:
Your hd+ looks normal. I wouldn't think about it too much as its more than likely not getting better than that.
I just bought a new phone and the hardware made android so much more snappier then it was on the last one no matter how much people had tweaked the roms.
Just how it is. Its a cheap tablet with a nice size screen and hardware not quite capable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've installed CM11 for two of my friends on their HD+'s, and their is snappier than mine. All are fresh installs. There is a very noticeable difference between mine (purchased in June, 2013), and theirs (purchased in May & June 2014). I didn't write everything down, but there was very little difference in the information for each device as reported by Quadrant.
Odenknight said:
I've installed CM11 for two of my friends on their HD+'s, and their is snappier than mine. All are fresh installs. There is a very noticeable difference between mine (purchased in June, 2013), and theirs (purchased in May & June 2014). I didn't write everything down, but there was very little difference in the information for each device as reported by Quadrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You maybe experiencing lag since you have been running longer (since 2013, not just with CM11). Also you may have a different emmc chip than they do. There are hardware differences between some devices
Sent from my BN NookHD+ using XDA Premium HD app
leapinlar said:
You maybe experiencing lag since you have been running longer (since 2013, not just with CM11). Also you may have a different emmc chip than they do. There are hardware differences between some devices
Sent from my BN NookHD+ using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info. I'll ask them to send me the device info and I'll compare them both. Based off of what you said earlier, it may be due to too many writes to the chip? If so, I can live with that. I did abuse the heck out of it.
Thanks to you, VG, and everyone else in the community who put all of this together.
Odenknight said:
Thanks for the info. I'll ask them to send me the device info and I'll compare them both. Based off of what you said earlier, it may be due to too many writes to the chip? If so, I can live with that. I did abuse the heck out of it.
Thanks to you, VG, and everyone else in the community who put all of this together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is exactly what I meant. But if you run CM11 enough, it may speed up due to it running TRIM in the background.
Sent from my BN NookHD+ using XDA Premium HD app
Idk. Had two of these, one for three months and this one since around when you got yours. It performs as I remember and as I expect.
But since your comparing directly to another aren't ALL electronics that way? This display is more blue than that one, this hard drive has more errors that that one. This cpu can be oc'd more than that one.
There's always things causing speed differences. Background services, amount of free space - its best to have >50% free space, amount of installed apps, what leapinlar pointed out, etc.
In one month they could have no noticeable difference. Tis all I'm saying.
[You might was to switch over to using art instead of dalvic as well if not already. It may/may not help in making it feel faster as its suppoed to be the PBT™ (Performance Boosting Thing). Mine is on art. You may also want to go into the recovery and do a full backup before that.]
sandsofmyst said:
[You might was to switch over to using art instead of dalvic as well if not already. It may/may not help in making it feel faster as its suppoed to be the PBT™ (Performance Boosting Thing). Mine is on art. You may also want to go into the recovery and do a full backup before that.]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pardon my ignorance, but how do you do this?
neoage said:
Pardon my ignorance, but how do you do this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post is for a phone, but it is the same for all devices (I just randomly picked a post):
http://forums.androidcentral.com/android-4-4-kitkat/404625-enabling-art-android-4-4-3-devices.html
Quote "To enable ART, Go to settings => About Phone =>Then go to Build Number and tap on Build Number until it ask if you want to enable Developer Options (or something in that effect) Once you say yes, Go back once and above About Phone you should see Developer options.
Under Developer options, go to "Select Runtime" (which should be on Dalvik) and select ART. Once you do this it will need to reboot your phone and then it will go through an update process on your Apps. Depending on how many Apps you have this can take a bit. I suggest doing when you won't need your phone for a few minutes and also make sure to plug your phone into power to help it go faster.
Once it is done, I suggest testing one or two apps to make sure they work. Then I would reboot your phone one more time. (This seems to fix a noticed app lag after the update). Once it comes back up, use your phone as normal and enjoy the free speed boost and a little added battery life. I have not noticed any issue with the 168 apps on my Nexus 5 nor any stability issue with the device, but again you millage may vary on your device and apps."
Some additional notes:
I stress doing a full recovery backup first. If you don't have enough internal space available, then that may cause it to be unusable when android starts up due to it failing while configuring art.
Phones (and other low internal storage devices) are a bit problematic due to amount of space available. My htc sensation couldn't enable art from not enough internal space. But the nook hd+ (for instance) has plenty (assuming its not all used).
Art is supposed to be enabled automatically in the next android release.
"With the L Developer Preview, ART is now the default runtime."
https://developer.android.com/preview/api-overview.html
Art requires more space due the fact that apps are pre-compiled during install:
"ART, on the other hand, uses an Ahead-of-Time compiler (AOT) to process application instructions before they're needed so things run more smoothly for the user."
http://lifehacker.com/android-art-vs-dalvik-runtimes-effect-on-battery-life-1507264545
You'll possibly lose about half a GB or more. It just depends on how many apps including the apps included with the rom.
The reason why the hd+ has poorer performance is probably due to it dragging a 1920x1080 (2073600 pixels) screen while the Fire has a 1024x600 screen (614400 pixels). Processing a full 1080p screen vs a 600 makes a big difference. The 544 isn't much of an upgrade over the 540 to make up for it. While it doubles the frame rate in graphics by about 2x over the 540, its having to push more than 3x the pixels.
Apple had the same issue with the ipad 3 when they went to the retina screen. It was a bit of a dog on pushing the retina screen, hence the quick rollout of the ipad 4 with a much faster cpu and gpu.
Lastly, amazon has a lot of pretty good paid developers optimizing the heck out of the Fire. I doubt its running a stock google display/graphics driver.
One of the things with high density displays. They're pretty and nice for text but you need plenty of horsepower to run them.
I signed up for alerts but doesn't seem like I was getting them.
I was comparing it to the OG Kindle Fire because it was the first real Android tablet and it's old as dirt now. Also as mentioned in the other performance vs stock thread when running the default Nook HD+ OS the interface is a lot more responsive and games perform better too. It seems like there's something missing between those kernel's/drivers and the CM version.
Of note these commits might help us with some of our issues. It looks like they're enabling a 128 MB swap partition for this device.
http://review.cyanogenmod.org/#/c/68840/
I was under the impression that encryption was supposed to be a good thing. Can someone explain why everyone wants it disabled?
It apparently slows the device down significantly since they did the encryption with software instead of hardware. Doing the mod simply makes it optional like it was before. Most people won't have that kind of sensitive info on their phones to really worry about it.
i dont notice any slow down thus far and i applaud the encryption.
Most people would choose faster performance over encryption. Almost ANYONE would choose to have encryption if it didn't affect performance...there's no arguing that encryption is a bad thing...it's just that performance is king for most people who don't consider their phone data to be extremely sensitive.
I think Google should have done one of two things: 1) make it optional so everyone could choose encryption or performance 2) make it so the encryption has little to no effect on performance.
Since it does strongly affect performance, the fact that it's FORCED on us is definitely a point of contention.
> i dont notice any slow down thus far and i applaud the encryption.
if you didn't then good for you. don't bother comparing your Nexus 6 with how a hated touchwizd Note4 behaves. Heck don't compare it even with the year old Nexus 5.
People don't notice any slowdowns, its only a problem for those benchmark geeks.
Yet, in all full hardware benchmarks, even a fully encrypted Nexus 6 outperforms every other phone.
Antutu is still 50k+ for example. Lol
chrisjcks said:
People don't notice any slowdowns, its only a problem for those benchmark geeks.
Yet, in all full hardware benchmarks, even a fully encrypted Nexus 6 outperforms every other phone.
Antutu is still 50k+ for example. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People have said the phone is significantly snappier after disabling it. Some may say it's placebo, but the read/write speeds are increased quite a lot, so it is believable. I personally didn't even use the phone with encryption and compared to the video reviews I've seen, mine seems to perform a whole lot better. In some vids there were noticeable delays when opening apps.
It is faster at saving files and opening my photos app without encryption. I have 3000+ pictures on my phone from that I took on my G3 and its much faster and there is almost 0 scroll lag now.
P1 Wookie said:
It apparently slows the device down significantly since they did the encryption with software instead of hardware. Doing the mod simply makes it optional like it was before. Most people won't have that kind of sensitive info on their phones to really worry about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have any developers actually dug in to the kernel to validate that it's using software encryption only? It could be that the Snapdragon 805's crypto module is just slow. Surely there has to be a way to enable hardware encryption if it's not available.
phekno said:
Have any developers actually dug in to the kernel to validate that it's using software encryption only? It could be that the Snapdragon 805's crypto module is just slow. Surely there has to be a way to enable hardware encryption if it's not available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have time to go look because I'm about to go into work, but I believe the person that made the modded boot image was the one that figured it out.
I feel I don't need it. I have used a smartphone for years now and they could have been encrypted at any time but I chose to rely on my lock screen and the ability to remotely wipe my device. I don't want to give up the performance for something I don't feel I need. If there was dedicated hardware, which it looks like there isn't, I'd leave it encrypted. Apple, for example, uses dedicated hardware so that the encryption doesn't impact performance which means they can use encryption and still get speeds equivelant to or faster than most phones out there now.
---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------
chrisjcks said:
People don't notice any slowdowns, its only a problem for those benchmark geeks.
Yet, in all full hardware benchmarks, even a fully encrypted Nexus 6 outperforms every other phone.
Antutu is still 50k+ for example. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But there are videos showing the Nexus 6 performing operations slower than a Nexus 5 or did you mean it outperforms every other encrypted phone?.
The slow down is not noticeable by any significant margin. It's purely in benchmarks and possibly when installing some larger apps, you might notice it taking a bit longer than it should. After disabling encryption, it's most likely placebo that it feels faster, but the phone did not feel "slow" by any means with encryption enabled.
I just don't care enough to have my data encrypted, I don't keep anything of vital importance on my phone, so I just decided to get rid of it anyway.
Berzerker7 said:
The slow down is not noticeable by any significant margin. It's purely in benchmarks and possibly when installing some larger apps, you might notice it taking a bit longer than it should. After disabling encryption, it's most likely placebo that it feels faster, but the phone did not feel "slow" by any means with encryption enabled.
I just don't care enough to have my data encrypted, I don't keep anything of vital importance on my phone, so I just decided to get rid of it anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure it is just benchmarks. Not based on the video at http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...premium-price-still-comes-with-compromises/2/ anyway. App launch, boot everything seems to be slower on the encrypted device (vs an un-encrypted N5).
Maybe it was pre-release software, so dunno if the issue is still as bad
jj14 said:
I'm not sure it is just benchmarks. Not based on the video at http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...premium-price-still-comes-with-compromises/2/ anyway. App launch, boot everything seems to be slower on the encrypted device (vs an un-encrypted N5).
Maybe it was pre-release software, so dunno if the issue is still as bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least personally, I haven't noticed any real difference and the phone felt plenty quick while I was encrypted. I just wanted the piece-of-mind and wiped early so that I wouldn't be bothered later when the phone was more used and it would have been more of a hassle to wipe.
Another issue to keep in mind is the hit to battery life. If encryption is taking place in software, that's going to tax the CPU much more than if it was being done via dedicated hardware. Removing encryption will reduce CPU load, thus increasing battery life. So even if the device "feels" the same with and without encryption, you still benefit from disabling encryption.
Anecdotally, yesterday I experienced better battery life than what the reviewers were getting (about 5-6 hours of SOT). We already know that the I/O speeds are objectively faster with encryption disabled, so I'd love to see some objective tests done on battery life.
I may opt out then. I'm not a criminal or part of a sleeper cell of any kind.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using XDA Free mobile app
i don't even have a lock screen.
do i need encryption?
bradputt said:
i don't even have a lock screen.
do i need encryption?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Encryption is just another barricade protecting your data beyond a lock screen. As far as I know it basically means that even if someone manages to pull data off your phone, they won't be able to view it. Could be wrong though.
Xileforce said:
Encryption is just another barricade protecting your data beyond a lock screen. As far as I know it basically means that even if someone manages to pull data off your phone, they won't be able to view it. Could be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In simple terms without being all technical, it is pretty much the process where you (Point A) is communicating with a user or server (Point B). A unknown identity (government, adversary) is possible to take the data you sent to Point B but then they will have a difficult time to "decrypting" the jibberish to translate it into something that is useful.
E.G. I send the following string "Hello"
The unknown identity would receive the encrypted text as "A45K1K1JKNN" (just a example)
Read more about cryptography if you're interested.
zephiK said:
In simple terms without being all technical, it is pretty much the process where you (Point A) is communicating with a user or server (Point B). A unknown identity (government, adversary) is possible to take the data you sent to Point B but then they will have a difficult time to "decrypting" the jibberish to translate it into something that is useful.
E.G. I send the following string "Hello"
The unknown identity would receive the encrypted text as "A45K1K1JKNN" (just a example)
Read more about cryptography if you're interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for clarifying it further, that's pretty much what I thought the general idea was.
So I'm fairly new to the Nexus 6, but I have had a Nexus 5 in the past (More recently coming from a Zenfone 2)..I've noticed that while applications open fairly quick on Marshmallow (Even the system UI is fairly smooth), I get a lot lag and jank in scrolling, and applications that work well on my girlfriend's 5x have poor performance on my 6.
Can anyone else relate to this? Apps like Pintrest, Instagram, Tumblr, Ebay, Amazon all aren't as smooth as they should be, and sometimes web browsing can be horrendous (Almost like a touch delay when scrolling).
I've tried clean wipes, flashed the stock images, tried non-stock roms, different kernels, everything I can think of, but to me, the phone just isnt as smooth as I thought it would be. I get that it's over a year old, but I still expected a bit more.
Am I alone here? Again, the UI itself is fine, its more application based \ scrolling based.
Well, the 6 and 5x have the same GPU, more or less. The 5x GPU is miniaturized, but otherwise identical.
The 5x has a 1920x1080 display, or roughly 2 million pixels.
The 6 has a 2560x1440 display..... 3.7 million pixels.
So, why would you possibly imagine that with the SAME GPU, but nearly TWICE the number of pixels, that the 6 would be able to produce the same graphical performance as the 5x?
*** UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS!!!
smokinjoe2122 said:
So I'm fairly new to the Nexus 6, but I have had a Nexus 5 in the past (More recently coming from a Zenfone 2)..I've noticed that while applications open fairly quick on Marshmallow (Even the system UI is fairly smooth), I get a lot lag and jank in scrolling, and applications that work well on my girlfriend's 5x have poor performance on my 6.
Can anyone else relate to this? Apps like Pintrest, Instagram, Tumblr, Ebay, Amazon all aren't as smooth as they should be, and sometimes web browsing can be horrendous (Almost like a touch delay when scrolling).
I've tried clean wipes, flashed the stock images, tried non-stock roms, different kernels, everything I can think of, but to me, the phone just isnt as smooth as I thought it would be. I get that it's over a year old, but I still expected a bit more.
Am I alone here? Again, the UI itself is fine, its more application based \ scrolling based.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried turning off the encryption? When I came from the N5 I noticed the phone was not as smooth as the N5 until I turned the encryption off. Early on it made a big difference as they did not have NEON encryption optimizations enabled. Was that was enabled the difference was small but it is still noticeable to me between haveing the encryption running and not. It is not night and day but I think you will notice it.
doitright said:
Well, the 6 and 5x have the same GPU, more or less. The 5x GPU is miniaturized, but otherwise identical.
The 5x has a 1920x1080 display, or roughly 2 million pixels.
The 6 has a 2560x1440 display..... 3.7 million pixels.
So, why would you possibly imagine that with the SAME GPU, but nearly TWICE the number of pixels, that the 6 would be able to produce the same graphical performance as the 5x?
*** UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS!!!
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I don't think expecting a phone that's a little over a year old, (That was a flagship mind you), to run smoothly is unreasonable. While it's pushing more pixels than the 5x, the processor should be quite similar, along with an extra GB of ram.
eman5oh said:
Have you tried turning off the encryption? When I came from the N5 I noticed the phone was not as smooth as the N5 until I turned the encryption off. Early on it made a big difference as they did not have NEON encryption optimizations enabled. Was that was enabled the difference was small but it is still noticeable to me between haveing the encryption running and not. It is not night and day but I think you will notice it.
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I am running a modified stock ROM now that has encryption turned off, and it is a little better, but unfortunately you're right, it's not night and day.
smokinjoe2122 said:
So I'm fairly new to the Nexus 6, but I have had a Nexus 5 in the past (More recently coming from a Zenfone 2)..I've noticed that while applications open fairly quick on Marshmallow (Even the system UI is fairly smooth), I get a lot lag and jank in scrolling, and applications that work well on my girlfriend's 5x have poor performance on my 6.
Can anyone else relate to this? Apps like Pintrest, Instagram, Tumblr, Ebay, Amazon all aren't as smooth as they should be, and sometimes web browsing can be horrendous (Almost like a touch delay when scrolling).
I've tried clean wipes, flashed the stock images, tried non-stock roms, different kernels, everything I can think of, but to me, the phone just isnt as smooth as I thought it would be. I get that it's over a year old, but I still expected a bit more.
Am I alone here? Again, the UI itself is fine, its more application based \ scrolling based.
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I have none of these issues on my 6
Go in developer options and try to turn off all animation transitions, that improved speed for me
smokinjoe2122 said:
So I'm fairly new to the Nexus 6, but I have had a Nexus 5 in the past (More recently coming from a Zenfone 2)..I've noticed that while applications open fairly quick on Marshmallow (Even the system UI is fairly smooth), I get a lot lag and jank in scrolling, and applications that work well on my girlfriend's 5x have poor performance on my 6.
Can anyone else relate to this? Apps like Pintrest, Instagram, Tumblr, Ebay, Amazon all aren't as smooth as they should be, and sometimes web browsing can be horrendous (Almost like a touch delay when scrolling).
I've tried clean wipes, flashed the stock images, tried non-stock roms, different kernels, everything I can think of, but to me, the phone just isnt as smooth as I thought it would be. I get that it's over a year old, but I still expected a bit more.
Am I alone here? Again, the UI itself is fine, its more application based \ scrolling based.
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I've had my Nexus for 13 months. (Purchased in February 2015). I've rooted and run various ROMs on the device over the last year. Since I have the Next plan with AT&T I've been planning on upgrading soon so a couple weeks ago I went back to unrooted stock. Since then I've been having the same issues you mention. I don't have a 5x to compare to, but it is definitely lagging a lot more than before. Last night I was trying to view something on Amazon, and it just sat there with a white screen. Many times my keyboard stays floating above the homescreen when I press the "home" softkey, or stays floating after I am done typing in Facebook, messenger etc. It just LAGS big time. Also the battery drain has been horrendous. I've been getting so PO'd at it I've been tempted to go get a Note (GASP!) Last night was the last straw I uninstalled swiftkey (been a avid user for years never an issue) and the CM Locker I had installed so I could have a different lock screen photo (since I'm no longer rooted). I'm giving it 24 hours, and if it is still acting up, I am either re-rooting or upgrading (although there's like NOTHING that I like right now for devices).
---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------
grgana said:
Go in developer options and try to turn off all animation transitions, that improved speed for me
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I just did that. Hopefully that helps with my issue too.
Well, mine is mostly related to the jank when scrolling through applications. The UI, keyboard, ect all works fine. However, The worst is browsing web sites with chrome - I can flick to scroll up and there almost seems to be a second delay sometimes. I've never experienced anything like that before. Also when when using apps such as twitter, amazon, ebay, ect, the scrolling is really bad - Worse than my Zenfone 2.
Again, I've fastboot flash'd the complete stock rom multiple times, tried various kernels\modded roms, ect. They all display this behavior, some worse than others.
I love the size, screen quality, and build of this phone, but for a phone that's last year's Google flagship, I find the performance horrible.
Try turn off animations anyway, you don't have to be rooted, unlocked, yust tap build number 7 times, back to settings/ developer options and put to 0 trazitions, animations,animator..and optionally reboot.
smokinjoe2122 said:
Well, mine is mostly related to the jank when scrolling through applications. The UI, keyboard, ect all works fine. However, The worst is browsing web sites with chrome - I can flick to scroll up and there almost seems to be a second delay sometimes. I've never experienced anything like that before. Also when when using apps such as twitter, amazon, ebay, ect, the scrolling is really bad - Worse than my Zenfone 2.
Again, I've fastboot flash'd the complete stock rom multiple times, tried various kernels\modded roms, ect. They all display this behavior, some worse than others.
I love the size, screen quality, and build of this phone, but for a phone that's last year's Google flagship, I find the performance horrible.
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Have to say, I have none of those issues as someone else also stated. If it does the same on stock, it might be hardware related. How does the phone behave in recovery? Is scrolling as normal? What recovery are you using? And when you say you went back to stock, did you do a complete factory reset including deleting all your personal data? If so, you can also try re-locking your bootloader and unlocking it and then flash factory image from Google. That will also erase everything off your device, including personal data.
With thousands of people here on XDA using a Nexus 6, your issue seems to be specific to you and your device. Maybe it is a screen/digitizer issue.
Seemed to me the February build was slow and janky but the the March was back to normal performance for me, op didn't state what build you were on. Might be an option
holeindalip said:
Seemed to me the February build was slow and janky but the the March was back to normal performance for me, op didn't state what build you were on. Might be an option
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I'm on the March build. I usually fastboot flash every img myself, then do a factory reset in recovery when trying to get back to stock..This time I just used the Flash-All.bat for the March image and I'll do some testing. I doubt this method is the difference, I'm grasping at straws. I'm semi concerned now if no one else is having these issues...Or maybe my expectations are just too high.
Perhaps I'll try a screen recording app and see if I can capture what I'm running into. It's not all apps, and it's not all the time, but its definitely noticeable.
you're not alone. i recently picked up a ZTE zmax 2 and did a side by side app load speed test. the ZTE zmax 2 loaded up youtube noticeably faster, had thumbnails faster, and played faster when clicking play. the zmax 2 is a midrange ATT phone with Snapdragon 410, 2gb ram, 720p screen. it costs $99 at best buy today..
I've noticed this too between my Nexus 6 (purchased 4/2015) and my wife's Nexus 6 (purchased 10/2015). Hers is noticeably smoother.
I do have occasional screen tearing on mine when I use certain kernel/ROMs, so maybe it's janky hardware.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
I know the frustration, for me it is kernel related, but we cant do nothing, we need new device tree by google. I'm really disappointed that g3 has QHD screen with 801 and is smoother than nexus 6 with 805
fedef12evo said:
I know the frustration, for me it is kernel related, but we cant do nothing, we need new device tree by google. I'm really disappointed that g3 has QHD screen with 801 and is smoother than nexus 6 with 805
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My wifey has a G3 and I can't agree. When she is using my phone, she is always amazed how fluid it is.
derdjango said:
My wifey has a G3 and I can't agree. When she is using my phone, she is always amazed how fluid it is.
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Is your wife g3 on 6.0 marshmellow?
Flashing stock over again really didn't do much for performance. I Did however root it, and increase the GPU clock (Actually set it to performance idles at 300mhz then shoots to 600hmz), and that does seem to help. I can sacrifice battery for better performance in this instance.
Have to agree, at around the end of the day (by 40% battery) my phone slows down. I went pure stock. A quick reboot fixes it. But a tad frustrating