So, I had an issue with the charging port on my Nexus 6 and Motorola is sending out a replacement phone. This is actually the second time this has happened. Anyway, the last time it happened, I was able to get a USB connection and unroot the phone and wipe everything before sending it back to Motorola. This time however, one of the pins on the USB connection has broken and I believe it is one that is used for data transfer and my PC won't recognize the device. I know how to unroot with a computer connection, but I was wondering if anyone knew how to unroot without a computer? I'm still able to move files on and off the phone via wifi, cell and Bluetooth. Thanks in advance for any help.
There's a full unroot option in SuperSU, afterwords you can flash stock rom, not sure how you will get the bootloader locked though
Ok, I found the option in SuperSU for the full unroot. Thanks for that. Now to figure out how to lock the bootloader...
cmorin543 said:
Ok, I found the option in SuperSU for the full unroot. Thanks for that. Now to figure out how to lock the bootloader...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you already on stock ROM?
I'm currently running PureNexus - the replacement phone is set to arrive tomorrow, so I'm trying to plan ahead since Motorola only allows so many days to receive the old phone before they keep my $500 deposit...
cmorin543 said:
I'm currently running PureNexus - the replacement phone is set to arrive tomorrow, so I'm trying to plan ahead since Motorola only allows so many days to receive the old phone before they keep my $500 deposit...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know how you'll be able to flash the stock ROM tbh without fastboot as well as relocking the bootloader. Maybe it would be possible to setup a SSH connection to your phone and send the fastboot commands through there? Not sure, not a pro at this, maybe someone else can lean in here and help you out
Do you have twrp installed, you can copy a stock image over and flash it with twrp. If not, box it up and cross your fingers. I doubt you will have any trouble. Everyone worries about this but never seen anyone say they got denied.
Google The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. It says manufacturers can't deny warranty unless they can show what you did caused the issue. This is a physical issue, obviously you didn't.
Link to use twrp to flash.
http://www.droidviews.com/now-flash-image-files-using-twrp-2-8-4-0/
Yes, I have TWRP installed. If I can't find another way, I'll flash a stock rom over it and hope for the best. Thanks!!
Couldn't you just take the beta program update and it will take it back to stock?
brando21 said:
Couldn't you just take the beta program update and it will take it back to stock?
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Click to collapse
No because he has twrp installed, it's will fail
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Than maybe I had done something different about a week ago or so. I was on stock rooted with twrp took the update and I'm positive that it flashed stock recovery over twrp. I'm now unrooted with stock recovery. I did not use the computer or manually flashed anything in twrp
brando21 said:
Than maybe I had done something different about a week ago or so. I was on stock rooted with twrp took the update and I'm positive that it flashed stock recovery over twrp. I'm now unrooted with stock recovery. I did not use the computer or manually flashed anything in twrp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can verify that when I first joined the beta program I successfully took the OTA with TWRP and it rebooted to stock recovery.
So what your saying is I should be able to flash a stock rom with twrp and take an ota update and it should go back to the stock bootloader? Will this also relock the bootloader as well?
From what I know it will take everything back to stock except relocking the bootloader. For that you need to fastboot lock the device. What I have read through several sites is that having an unlocked bootloader it will not affect warranty fixes or replacements..
Related
So here's the deal. I use WUGS and don't manually do stuff.. Yes this makes me a weak individual and I bow to the people who can manually flash and their omniscient power. I bought a 64gb google version Nexus 6 about a month ago when the price dropped. I had issues with it just shutting off every once in a while, but tried rooting and romming and no matter what the rom was, about a day in it would just force shutdown... In the early days I could access TWRP and even if I restored to a stock back up, only one time did it just restore and boot up, the rest of the time it would just not boot up..... I called about an RMA and put it back to complete stock, unlocked, trying to get it working, just thought maybe it was something I did and if so, I wanted to try stock. I flashed it, a few times I even made it to the set up screen on the initial boot, but after failing it didn't matter if I navigated to stock recovery and wiped or anything. Only thing I can do is access stock recovery and bootloader and all that and try to power it on but it just says google for a few seconds then shuts down. . Last night I got worried and relocked the bootloader so I could send it back and not have Moto void me on that... Was this always just a faulty phone or is it more likely something i did? I appreciate any intelligent thougts.
Dustin
kickenwing13 said:
So here's the deal. I use WUGS and don't manually do stuff.. Yes this makes me a weak individual and I bow to the people who can manually flash and their omniscient power. I bought a 64gb google version Nexus 6 about a month ago when the price dropped. I had issues with it just shutting off every once in a while, but tried rooting and romming and no matter what the rom was, about a day in it would just force shutdown... In the early days I could access TWRP and even if I restored to a stock back up, only one time did it just restore and boot up, the rest of the time it would just not boot up..... I called about an RMA and put it back to complete stock, unlocked, trying to get it working, just thought maybe it was something I did and if so, I wanted to try stock. I flashed it, a few times I even made it to the set up screen on the initial boot, but after failing it didn't matter if I navigated to stock recovery and wiped or anything. Only thing I can do is access stock recovery and bootloader and all that and try to power it on but it just says google for a few seconds then shuts down. . Last night I got worried and relocked the bootloader so I could send it back and not have Moto void me on that... Was this always just a faulty phone or is it more likely something i did? I appreciate any intelligent thougts.
Dustin
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Click to collapse
There is honestly no way to tell. We would be guessing. You cannot unlock the bootloader now either, so we can't even get you to manually flash stock to test.
You can try a "fastboot format userdata" and "fastboot format cache" to see if that helps you boot, otherwise, nothing you can do.
We do recommend that you only use toolkits if you know what they are doing in the background. It really isn't difficult. In fact, I wrote a very simple thread to explain in in General > Sticky roll-up. None of this has anything to do with omniscience. Though, that particular skill would be helpful to us to answer your actual question.
Lol thanks dude. I'll try anything. I figured out how to run simple commands, but when it comes to putting the files in the correct directory I think so that it reads it... But, you're saying now that I'm locked, stock, and not loading up, I could try to do fastboot and format data and cache? Is this a more in depth wipe than just wiping in stock recovery does ? I assume now that I locked, I can't flash firmwares without voiding my warranty or? I was actually on chroma and it shutdown, so I went to stock, started typing gmail log in on initial set up and it shut down.. .So as far as I know. I'm stock... and locked..
kickenwing13 said:
Lol thanks dude. I'll try anything. I figured out how to run simple commands, but when it comes to putting the files in the correct directory I think so that it reads it... But, you're saying now that I'm locked, stock, and not loading up, I could try to do fastboot and format data and cache? Is this a more in depth wipe than just wiping in stock recovery does ? I assume now that I locked, I can't flash firmwares without voiding my warranty or? I was actually on chroma and it shutdown, so I went to stock, started typing gmail log in on initial set up and it shut down.. .So as far as I know. I'm stock... and locked..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Format is not a wipe. It will wipe, but unlike a wipe, it will recreate the file system. A corrupt file system can prevent boot so worth trying.
If the BL is locked and won't unlock, that's about all you can try.
Boot.to recovery just incase you have TWRP recovery still
danarama said:
Format is not a wipe. It will wipe, but unlike a wipe, it will recreate the file system. A corrupt file system can prevent boot so worth trying.
If the BL is locked and won't unlock, that's about all you can try.
Boot.to recovery just incase you have TWRP recovery still
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tried and the process failed... I have it back to status 2 and not rooted and it died after flashing stock so I assume sending it back is okay.. my replacement is here today. I'm unlocking and rooting as we speak
I erased everything on my Nexus 6 and then tried using the flash-all.bat from image-shamu-lmy48i.zip.
It failed saying could not allocate so many bytes.
Accidentally i did lock my bootloader using fastboot oem lock.
Now cant load anything and my phone doesn't boot.
When i try fastboot oem unlock it says enable that option under developer options.
I am now with a brick Nexus 6 please help me out of this situation.
openbook said:
I erased everything on my Nexus 6 and then tried using the flash-all.bat from image-shamu-lmy48i.zip.
It failed saying could not allocate so many bytes.
Accidentally i did lock my bootloader using fastboot oem lock.
Now cant load anything and my phone doesn't boot.
When i try fastboot oem unlock it says enable that option under developer options.
I am now with a brick Nexus 6 please help me out of this situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No matter how many times this question is asked, unfortunately, the answer is still, there is no fix.
This has been happening since the nexus 6 went to 5.1 and has been documented numerous times. A bit of reading beforehand is all that is needed to avoid this situation.
RMA is the only option.
Evolution_Tech said:
No matter how many times this question is asked, unfortunately, the answer is still, there is no fix.
This has been happening since the nexus 6 went to 5.1 and has been documented numerous times. A bit of reading beforehand is all that is needed to avoid this situation.
RMA is the only option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did unlock before and rooted the phone and i was using it.
Does it mean my warranty is also void and no more support?
Is any devs working on fixing this problem?
openbook said:
I did unlock before and rooted the phone and i was using it.
Does it mean my warranty is also void and no more support?
Is any devs working on fixing this problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a security feature since 5.1. You cannot.unlock the bootloader without first setting "enable oem unlock". If you unlocked before 5.1, then you most likely didn't do this as it wasn't needed. So now you're locked and there is no way to unlock it.
Some devs may be looking into it, but if they are, they have been looking into it for a long time. It's extremely unlikely there will be a solution for this that doesn't come from Motorola. It could be an easy fix if Moto Wanted. They could provide a stock recovery flash able fully signed, rom.zip. This wouldn't bypass security either because you would still need your unlock code / google password to boot the device. But so far, we've heard nothing
Send it in to them. If you haven't got TWRP installed, there is nothing you can do. There's no reason for them to void warranty
sorry if this has been covered but i cant find anything the same as my situation and im pretty stuck.
I have just bought a nexus 6 and the phone prompted me to update to 5.1 so i have, once it restarted i am now stuck in a boot loop with it saying optimizing apps then restarts and the same again, i have tried booting into recovery and wipe data but just get the same.
I have tried using nexus root toolkit (wugsfresh) however cannot find fastboot connectivity so im stuck there.
The phone is not rooted and i cant seem to get access through adb ( i have not turned usb debugging on as the phone is new)
I really am not too clued up so im sorry if i need things explaining abit more.
Thanks in advance
viper1402 said:
sorry if this has been covered but i cant find anything the same as my situation and im pretty stuck.
I have just bought a nexus 6 and the phone prompted me to update to 5.1 so i have, once it restarted i am now stuck in a boot loop with it saying optimizing apps then restarts and the same again, i have tried booting into recovery and wipe data but just get the same.
I have tried using nexus root toolkit (wugsfresh) however cannot find fastboot connectivity so im stuck there.
The phone is not rooted and i cant seem to get access through adb ( i have not turned usb debugging on as the phone is new)
I really am not too clued up so im sorry if i need things explaining abit more.
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
flash a factory image, your update went no good. if you havent ever done this, i DO NOT RECOMMEND using a toolkit. toolkits are good for people who know what they are doing. if you dont kniw, you will remain clueless, and could make things much worse.
simms22 said:
flash a factory image, your update went no good. if you havent ever done this, i DO NOT RECOMMEND using a toolkit. toolkits are good for people who know what they are doing. if you dont kniw, you will remain clueless, and could make things much worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
am i able to flash a factory image without being able to connect the device via adb? i just wasnt able to find the device on it
Thanks for the reply
viper1402 said:
am i able to flash a factory image without being able to connect the device via adb? i just wasnt able to find the device on it
Thanks for the reply
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
factory images are only flashed while youre in your bootloader, via fastboot. thetes a stick for directions in the general thread.
simms22 said:
factory images are only flashed while youre in your bootloader, via fastboot. thetes a stick for directions in the general thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right got it sorted thanks for the help now its saying i have an update for 5.1.1 is it worth doing this or is there a strong chance it will bootloop again ?
viper1402 said:
right got it sorted thanks for the help now its saying i have an update for 5.1.1 is it worth doing this or is there a strong chance it will bootloop again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd suggest avoiding the OTA's and fastboot flash the latest factory image. LMY48I
IMHO....
viper1402 said:
right got it sorted thanks for the help now its saying i have an update for 5.1.1 is it worth doing this or is there a strong chance it will bootloop again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it worth it? YES! if you want, you can flaah the factory image for 5.1.1 instead of taking the ota. but chances are that the ota will be fine.
viper1402 said:
right got it sorted thanks for the help now its saying i have an update for 5.1.1 is it worth doing this or is there a strong chance it will bootloop again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did u get it sorted? I just had a friend call me with exactly the same problem! He's not very tech savvy so it's proving difficult talking him thru it, so if u found an easy solution for me to pass on that would be great ?
boxa72 said:
How did u get it sorted? I just had a friend call me with exactly the same problem! He's not very tech savvy so it's proving difficult talking him thru it, so if u found an easy solution for me to pass on that would be great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated before. Forget OTA. Unlock bootloader and fastboot flash the images manually. Do not take OTA with bootloader locked. If OTA fails have to RMA. No fix.
I had the same issue today and like PRDOG1 said I was talking to him on my forum post. As soon as you get the phone unlock that bootloader, then just do flashes through the bootloader. It is safer, and as long as that bootloader is unlocked you can go ahead and load up any image you want thats factory and you will be fine.
Well it should be fine then coz the carriers in Aussie don't lock bootloaders. I just told him to bring the phone to me n I'll re-flash a stock image for him but I thought u may have found another way as I'm more familiar with Samsung and Windows than I am with Nexus. It seems pretty common this bootloop stuff after OTA with the N6.
Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
I suspect you are confusing carrier SIM lock with bootloader lock.
Carriers do not usually do anything with bootloader lock - they may force a SIM lock to their SIM cards however.
On the Nexus 6 however, unlocking the bootloader is pretty easy (assuming you can boot to the OS and select the option to allow OEM unlock). I'd recommend leaving the bootloader unlocked and flashing twrp asap, in case of any issues later.
Altho in Australia they don't carrier lock bootloaders the software comes locked for security reasons. If he didn"t unlock prior to the OTA update it is bricked and will require RMA.
Hi,
I have an unbranded and unlocked nexus 6. I wanted to root and install twrp so I can begin flashing custom roms... Only problem is, I don't have a pc at home to ADB flash twrp, etc.... Is there any method to flash custom rom without having a machine at home? I have absolutely no need for a pc at home, until this precise moment when I get a new phone and I want to start flashing, lol. Im gonna assuming the answer is NO, im thinking there may be some OTG method with files from a thumb drive, but I'll wait to hear from the experts. Thanks in advance.
I have been wondering that very question myself. I really doubt it's possible, but since I have had my N6 and LG G Pad, I don't ever use my antique Pentium 4 Dell PC hardly at all.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
It's totally possible but highly recommended against. There is an app to root, which then you use flashify to flash recovery but if you ever have a problem, you won't be able to fix it because you need a PC to get a rom back on your phone if you accidentally wipe the os or do some other mischief that prevents you booting, you wont be able.to unlock your bootloader which means you won't be able.to.flash stock or return for warranty purposes either, so as.much as you want to do this, it would really put you in an awful position and you'd be screwed if something goes wrong, which the chances are, it will.
danarama said:
It's totally possible but highly recommended against. There is an app to root, which then you use flashify to flash recovery but if you ever have a problem, you won't be able to fix it because you need a PC to get a rom back on your phone if you accidentally wipe the os or do some other mischief that prevents you booting, you wont be able.to unlock your bootloader which means you won't be able.to.flash stock or return for warranty purposes either, so as.much as you want to do this, it would really put you in an awful position and you'd be screwed if something goes wrong, which the chances are, it will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no issues with the first potential problem you mentioned (having to get a rom back on phone using a pc) because I have a backup phone, plus if it gets to that stage, I can use a friends computer if I really need to. But the last comment you made about the chances of an error occurring and saying that it most likely will and i'll be unable to get it back to stock scares me. Is this method really that unreliable? I will read up on it more, and search through the forums.
If you can provide details of the app to root, that would be great. Also, how reliable is the app to root alone by itself? Minus the flashify portion...
nseriessaga said:
I have no issues with the first potential problem you mentioned (having to get a rom back on phone using a pc) because I have a backup phone, plus if it gets to that stage, I can use a friends computer if I really need to. But the last comment you made about the chances of an error occurring and saying that it most likely will and i'll be unable to get it back to stock scares me. Is this method really that unreliable? I will read up on it more, and search through the forums.
If you can provide details of the app to root, that would be great. Also, how reliable is the app to root alone by itself? Minus the flashify portion...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the method that's unreliable the app "kingroot" (I believe it is called) works fine. The issues occur with everything and anything else root users do. Flashing a rom, a mod, wiping the os via recovery etc.
Then if anything hardware goes wrong, returning the device for repair under warranty will likely be rejected if its not stock.
danarama said:
It's not the method that's unreliable the app "kingroot" (I believe it is called) works fine. The issues occur with everything and anything else root users do. Flashing a rom, a mod, wiping the os via recovery etc.
Then if anything hardware goes wrong, returning the device for repair under warranty will likely be rejected if its not stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotcha, so maybe I can just root and install apks of apps I really want like adaway, etc... then I should be fine as long as im not using the flash method correct?
nseriessaga said:
Gotcha, so maybe I can just root and install apks of apps I really want like adaway, etc... then I should be fine as long as im not using the flash method correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to commit to an answer there
One thing I will say though, you'll never be able to update with an OTA, so if you're going to root, have a custom recovery,. Allow.oem unlock and have an unlocked bootloader.
Best bet is to do the proper.routing and unlocking using your friends of as a one off. You can then safely.maintain the phone without a pc and use the pc in am emergency. Not unlocking the bootloader from the beginning is.asking.for.trouble
Man I need a new keyboard
danarama said:
I'm not going to commit to an answer there
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol I understand.. thx m8
nseriessaga said:
lol I understand.. thx m8
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Edit above
danarama said:
I'm not going to commit to an answer there
One thing I will say though, you'll never be able to update with an OTA, so if you're going to root, have a custom recovery,. Allow.oem unlock and have an unlocked bootloader.
Best bet is to do the proper.routing and unlocking using your friends of as a one off. You can then safely.maintain the phone without a pc and use the pc in am emergency. Not unlocking the bootloader from the beginning is.asking.for.trouble
Man I need a new keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
k, I already used the kingroot method and verified using root checker. Installed adaway and everything seems to work perfectly (so far anyway). Uninstalling Kingroot unroots the phone from my quick series of test that I've run so OTA updates doesn't seem like it'll be a problem.
I agree though, if I really want to do any rom flashing, ill just unlock, root, and flash using "proper methods".
Appreciate all your help man.
nseriessaga said:
k, I already used the kingroot method and verified using root checker. Installed adaway and everything seems to work perfectly (so far anyway). Uninstalling Kingroot unroots the phone from my quick series of test that I've run so OTA updates doesn't seem like it'll be a problem.
I agree though, if I really want to do any rom flashing, ill just unlock, root, and flash using "proper methods".
Appreciate all your help man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uninstalling Kingroot removes root but does not uninstall all modified files. Will show as modified and thus no OTA updates. Another thread on same thing here somewhere. Have to flash system back to stock with PC for any updates.
---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------
It's also not safe to update without bootloader unlocked anyway. Too many reported bootloops with OTA.
prdog1 said:
Uninstalling Kingroot removes root but does not uninstall all modified files. Will show as modified and thus no OTA updates. Another thread on same thing here somewhere. Have to flash system back to stock with PC for any updates.
---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------
It's also not safe to update without bootloader unlocked anyway. Too many reported bootloops with OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly this. All root methods edit.existing files but do not restore them after unroot. So the system is modified. We're.100% certain there will be no OTA.
Unlock the bootloader and do it properly.
Ok thanks guys. I guess eventually I'll have to get my hands on a PC lol. Thanks again
Even after a year on Android, I'm quite the novice, so please bear with me. So, I rooted my Moto X '14 using CF Autoroot because it was so easy. But, I had no idea how to unroot. So I googled some stuff and I attempted to flash back to total stock rooted rom and recovery. Foolishly, I picked the option to not wipe. So, when it rebooted, it went to the boot screen and crashed.
After trying everything, I realized I had no choice and did an external reset. So, hello 2014 because I'm back on KitKat but still was rooted. After looking around, I realized I can 'unroot' by pressing the option on SuperSU. But, I think all I did was revoke root access because on the bootloader, it still says modified.
I tried to go back to lolipop, but every time I take the OTA, the install crashes, but my phone works fine. So, what I wanna know is how I can go back to stock. Is it easy as flashing as flashing a 5.0 factory image? Or is there more I have to do?
bump
Ownage516 said:
Even after a year on Android, I'm quite the novice, so please bear with me. So, I rooted my Moto X '14 using CF Autoroot because it was so easy. But, I had no idea how to unroot. So I googled some stuff and I attempted to flash back to total stock rooted rom and recovery. Foolishly, I picked the option to not wipe. So, when it rebooted, it went to the boot screen and crashed.
After trying everything, I realized I had no choice and did an external reset. So, hello 2014 because I'm back on KitKat but still was rooted. After looking around, I realized I can 'unroot' by pressing the option on SuperSU. But, I think all I did was revoke root access because on the bootloader, it still says modified.
I tried to go back to lolipop, but every time I take the OTA, the install crashes, but my phone works fine. So, what I wanna know is how I can go back to stock. Is it easy as flashing as flashing a 5.0 factory image? Or is there more I have to do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just flash system and the root will be gone. Also, if you have other mods like TWRP or different modem the OTA won't install, so in order to get the latest update just flash all the files
Good luck
juliospinoza said:
Just flash system and the root will be gone. Also, if you have other mods like TWRP or different modem the OTA won't install, so in order to get the latest update just flash all the files
Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, this would've been so helpful a month ago, lol.
Ownage516 said:
Man, this would've been so helpful a month ago, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry. Usually I just browse the last 10 questions. And in this post I saw "bump" bit I didn't check that wasn't you who did it LOL.
juliospinoza said:
Sorry. Usually I just browse the last 10 questions. And in this post I saw "bump" bit I didn't check that wasn't you who did it LOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, it's all good. I just didn't know how that other dude dug this up.
Today I could finally use the xiaomi unlock tool to unlock my bootloader and root my phone. So I decided to do that. I did what I was supposed to and after rebooting the phone booted to recovery. I thought it was fine and it probably was supposed to happen so I flashed twrp. After doing that and attempting to boot to OS the recovery said the phone didn't have an OS installed. Did I do something wrong despite trying not to?
Edit: I downloaded a ROM. Can't use that one. Trying another one which will hopefully work. can't find any factory images for my phone sadly.
just to be safe...flash other ROMs or MIUI using recovery/fastboot. if you want to take risk rebooting it should be ok since i often got the message during installing custom ROMs. but TO BE SAFE just flash some ROM
shinoaki said:
just to be safe...flash other ROMs or MIUI using recovery/fastboot. if you want to take risk rebooting it should be ok since i often got the message during installing custom ROMs. but TO BE SAFE just flash some ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm currently downloading MIUI. Hopefully it works. Will be a pain to log back into some of the apps but Hopefully the root access etc is worth this pain.
ThatPolishWolf said:
I'm currently downloading MIUI. Hopefully it works. Will be a pain to log back into some of the apps but Hopefully the root access etc is worth this pain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well as long as you can access fastboot or recovery your phone is still alive
You didn't mentioned anything regarding what you did. Anyway you've the fastboot working, you can flash custom recovery & any rom you wish. If that didn't work fastboot ROM is there always