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Isn't this the big Question?
Never have I been so fuzzy about choosing a phone. I have got hold of LG G2 (which got warm, produces antutu scores of louzy 20 000, has aggressive noise reduction on photos and a screen that did not survive a 20 cm droptest after 24 hours - now in repair) and currently a 48 hour old Z1 that produces a little less noise and does not get overly hot dueing captures after the last update, but eats away battery when capturing photos. These new devices. I was actually seriously considering requesting my old xperia S back!
After googling for 12 hours I could not find answers to the following question, so I sent the questions to Sony and are waiting for an answer:
1. Is it a sensor\hardware or a software issue that produces this amount of grain and noize, particulary in the 50% peripheral part of the picture?
I used the perfectly evely lit computer screen matrix to test before and after the update. There is an actual improvement. A macro shot before the update showed marked noize in the periphery. It still does after the latest update, but it is far from as bad! It is still worse than note 3 i suspect.
This makes me inclined to say that the lenses (under macro shots at least) has peripheral distortion. The best optics one always gets when having as few lenses as possible in the objective. I guess there are quite a few in z1 compared to the competition?
2. Some rumour say that different batches of phones are of different quality. Needless to say: this has been the case on some previous massproduced gadgeds, and different fabrics might have different production quality. I have read that low quality items often are sold slightly cheaper on Ebay. So; anyone got some more "evidence" to prove such a suspicion for Z1? If so: what batches should we try to avoid?
krimskram said:
I think this is the big question. Never have I been so fuzzy about choosing a phone. I have got hold of LG G2 (which got warm, produces antutu scores of louzy 20 000, has aggressive noise reduction on photos and a screen that did not survive a 20 cm droptest after 24 hours - now in repair) and currently a 48 hour old Z1 that produces a little less noize after the last update, but eats away battery when capturing photos and occasionally gets so warm that it shuts down the camera app. Crikey! These new devices. I was actually seriously considering requesting my old xperia S back!
After googling for 12 hours I could not find answers to the following, so I sent the questions to Sony and are waiting for an answer:
1. Is it a sensor\hardware or a software issue that produces this amount of grain and noize, particulary in the 50% peripheral part of the picture?
Without uploading any picture: the computer screen matrix is evenly lit and "perfect". A macro shot before the update showed marked noize in the periphery. It still does after the latest update, but it is far from as good. This makes me inclined to say that the lenses (under macro shots at least) has peripheral distortion.
2. Some rumour say that different batches of phones are of different quality. Needless to say: this has been the case on some previous massproduced gadgeds, and different fabrics might have different production quality. I have read that low quality items often are sold slightly cheaper on Ebay. So; anyone got some more "evidence" to prove such a suspicion for Z1? If so: what batches should we try to avoid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I have used a g2 and the z1 quite a bit. The Z1 seems to have better software. I don't care about benchmarks as they all cheat anyway. But the better software definitely makes the z1 feel snappier. I haven't noticed any major difference in apps though. The lg launcher is slow.
The camera on the g2 is OK. It is decent all round and in good light can be stunning. It takes consistently decent shots. The camera on the z1 feels totally broken even with the latest software update. I suspect there must be a hardware fault. I have yet to take a single picture I am happy with in any light conditions and it is useless in low light.
Does anyone else think we have a hardware issue here with the Z1?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
The Jones said:
So I have used a g2 and the z1 quite a bit. The Z1 seems to have better software. I don't care about benchmarks as they all cheat anyway. But the better software definitely makes the z1 feel snappier. I haven't noticed any major difference in apps though. The lg launcher is slow.
The camera on the g2 is OK. It is decent all round and in good light can be stunning. It takes consistently decent shots. The camera on the z1 feels totally broken even with the latest software update. I suspect there must be a hardware fault. I have yet to take a single picture I am happy with in any light conditions and it is useless in low light.
Does anyone else think we have a hardware issue here with the Z1?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well not mine, I also used G2 and now z1. My z1 takes better photo in low light.
Maybe its your z1 only...
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app
marc_ecko28 said:
Well not mine, I also used G2 and now z1. My z1 takes better photo in low light.
Maybe its your z1 only...
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe. I do wonder if I have a faulty unit. It is so poor and shots have no detail, a ton of noise, poor focus.
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
That's a real issue of viewpoint. In and by itself the Z1 camera isn't "bad" and the 245 firmware update fixed many issues, such as the purple fringing and the oversharpening. It doesn't however, bring the camera into "amazing" land.
Sony's much-touted DxOMark scores aren't all that cut out. While video pulls the device in second place, after the Nokia 808 and before the iPhone 5s, if you look at images alone it's 6th place, after Nokia, iPhone, and the Samsung Galaxy S4. In terms of clarity, if you neglect autofocus, the iPhone 5, non-S, beats it as well.
That's still great for a phone camera, it's just sad that the much hyped November model, running on excellent hardware, gets beat by the June model from Samsung. If you do a lot of video in good light and shoot only manual then you have a decent camera phone. If you want to go out and replace your point and shoot with this thing on a field trip or vacation, there are six or seven older phones that beat the Z1 in picture quality.
Now, I believe that 99% of those issues are software issues. Technically Sony's approach is sound. The BIONZ processor is one of the best IP on the market in this bracket, the Exmor RS backlit sensor used in the Z1 is also used in the iPhone 5s and RX100, and a powerhouse. So that stuff is there. The mini G-lens has great spatial properties and is one of the best when it comes to luminance. What doesn't seem to work so well is all in the software portion of the equation.
I am not giving up on Sony. I have great hardware, I hope firm- and software will catch up.
Software is something they will change, even though Sony have a bad track record in Software you should have seen the Xperia S, I had it for a few days before I had a refund, software was unbearable with the random reboots. There getting better every time.
I was not very happy with camera until last week but I received latest update and I can't be happier
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I'm still amazed that these threads are popping up. It's like I'm using a completely different product from the rest of you, I swear.
Sure, low-light images can be a little noisy and grainy but guess what; so are ones from my point-and-shoot - there are very few stand-alone cameras in this bracket (around the £150 mark) that are entirely noise free in low light. The noise is far from "terrible" especially with the most recent firmware, and the up-side to it all is that I'm able to take picture in far lower lighting than I've even been able to on a phone before.
Here's the thing: Superior Auto, though now very much improved, still uses an ISO that borders on the insane. In low light, just put the phone on manual (I'd recommend 4:3) and snap away. Less noise and very detailed results. Indeed, the latest firmware means that both 20mp and 8mp manual shots are very respectable in low light.
I was walking around the National Railway Museum in York yesterday, taking pictures with both the QX10 and the Z1 - in many instances, the Z1 was sharper or, at least, just as sharp. And the lighting was poor.
I also did a side-by-side with my old C905 the other day. Until this point, I would've (still) put it up against any smartphone camera on the market (to me, it was Sony's last "great" camera phone). The Z1's 8mp shots were consistently better, with the exception of the Zenon Flash shot.
In response to the OP, however; the G-lens is highly convex. This results in some barreling in the corners of the image and means that the centre will always be ever-so-slightly sharper than the rest of the image (the effect is small, however). Nothing can be done about this - many point and shoot cameras and DSLR's are the same. I've had quite outstanding results from mine.
Sounds like your camera might be better than mine. Maybe what we should to is to compare shots where everyone takes a photo of the same item? I cannot think of anything easier an more available perfectly lit surface than a computer or notepad screen completley white on max luminance.
Anyway, even though my camera has some obvious distortion, it is nothing more or less than what is revealed in the numerous reviews. However - some morons have posted, what seems to be, og DSLR photos on the xperia blog an some other places claiming it to be produced with a Z1. I guess some people live to annoy other people.
Regarding the last awesome cameraphone from Sony I will give xperia S my vote. It did get a lot of pepper but it shined after several updates, and after I realized there was a prefabric screenprotector that were scratched, not my screen. Not using 2 screen protectors did help. The camera on X S excelled i macro shots and were great allround. For most users sony HOWEVER decided to kill the phone with the last update making it slow and less responsive. It lost the premium feel. An obvious sales trix. Sony replied to my question about the slow XS that "It is to be expected as your phone is too slow to effextuvley handle our new update". Well well.
Xperia S had a troublesome birth and death. For most of the time it shined. I hope this is what we are experiencing with the Z1.
krimskram said:
Sounds like your camera might be better than mine. Maybe what we should to is to compare shots where everyone takes a photo of the same item? I cannot think of anything easier an more available perfectly lit surface than a computer or notepad screen completley white on max luminance.
Anyway, even though my camera has some obvious distortion, it is nothing more or less than what is revealed in the numerous reviews. However - some morons have posted, what seems to be, og DSLR photos on the xperia blog an some other places claiming it to be produced with a Z1. I guess some people live to annoy other people.
Regarding the last awesome cameraphone from Sony I will give xperia S my vote. It did get a lot of pepper but it shined after several updates, and after I realized there was a prefabric screenprotector that were scratched, not my screen. Not using 2 screen protectors did help. The camera on X S excelled i macro shots and were great allround. For most users sony HOWEVER decided to kill the phone with the last update making it slow and less responsive. It lost the premium feel. An obvious sales trix. Sony replied to my question about the slow XS that "It is to be expected as your phone is too slow to effextuvley handle our new update". Well well.
Xperia S had a troublesome birth and death. For most of the time it shined. I hope this is what we are experiencing with the Z1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had an Xperia S and, yes, it did take very detailed shots. It's white balance wasn't always the best, however, and it was fairly terrible in poor lighting. I high contrast shots, though, the C905 would give better results - I did quite a bit of testing between the two
For examples of my work with the Z1, please look here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157635983420745/
jluster said:
That's a real issue of viewpoint. In and by itself the Z1 camera isn't "bad" and the 245 firmware update fixed many issues, such as the purple fringing and the oversharpening. It doesn't however, bring the camera into "amazing" land.
Sony's much-touted DxOMark scores aren't all that cut out. While video pulls the device in second place, after the Nokia 808 and before the iPhone 5s, if you look at images alone it's 6th place, after Nokia, iPhone, and the Samsung Galaxy S4. In terms of clarity, if you neglect autofocus, the iPhone 5, non-S, beats it as well.
That's still great for a phone camera, it's just sad that the much hyped November model, running on excellent hardware, gets beat by the June model from Samsung. If you do a lot of video in good light and shoot only manual then you have a decent camera phone. If you want to go out and replace your point and shoot with this thing on a field trip or vacation, there are six or seven older phones that beat the Z1 in picture quality.
Now, I believe that 99% of those issues are software issues. Technically Sony's approach is sound. The BIONZ processor is one of the best IP on the market in this bracket, the Exmor RS backlit sensor used in the Z1 is also used in the iPhone 5s and RX100, and a powerhouse. So that stuff is there. The mini G-lens has great spatial properties and is one of the best when it comes to luminance. What doesn't seem to work so well is all in the software portion of the equation.
I am not giving up on Sony. I have great hardware, I hope firm- and software will catch up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that is really annoying thing with Sony, they obviously haven't learnt anything from Xperia Z launch, release substandard firmware in the final release to public that everyone uses to review, therefore gets reviews that are not as good as they could have been, which will loose them sales. If they want to reach their goal of Number 2 Android selling phone. They have to wake up, trawl through the main forums, and review sites and make sure the phone they release is top notch, and make tiny tweaks later on.
Really why can't Sony get their sensor to work as well as Apple? Surely they should be able to get the most out of their sensors than anyone else?
The only substandard part of the hardware that I have noticed moving to Sony is the accelerometer and GPS accuracy, the rest has been robust and fixed with firmware updates.
If you want to get the best from the camera, you must run in manual mode. Because the software makes some pretty bad decisions a lot of the time.
Timaustin2000 said:
I had an Xperia S and, yes, it did take very detailed shots. It's white balance wasn't always the best, however, and it was fairly terrible in poor lighting. I high contrast shots, though, the C905 would give better results - I did quite a bit of testing between the two
For examples of my work with the Z1, please look here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157635983420745/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice shots! I've been scratching my head though with one of the shots you had, the one of the food / burger stall.
It seemed REALLY sharp and detailed so I looked in the exif data and saw it was ISO 64 / 100! Shutter speed was just a mere 1/8s so I'm wondering how did that happen with that particular low-light scenario?
The other pictures I can relate to
Here are a couple shots I took (though not as good as yours I am thinking)
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6YHwWcrqzNhbEtLUGFKNmk1SVU&usp=sharing
All taken in Manual Mode too (plant / garden shots are taken in 153 firmware)
bloodfire1004 said:
Nice shots! I've been scratching my head though with one of the shots you had, the one of the food / burger stall.
It seemed REALLY sharp and detailed so I looked in the exif data and saw it was ISO 64 / 100! Shutter speed was just a mere 1/8s so I'm wondering how did that happen with that particular low-light scenario?
The other pictures I can relate to
Here are a couple shots I took (though not as good as yours I am thinking)
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6YHwWcrqzNhbEtLUGFKNmk1SVU&usp=sharing
All taken in Manual Mode too (plant / garden shots are taken in 153 firmware)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The burger stall image was actually taken with Superior Auto (I know!). It decided to throw the phone into "Spotlight" shooting mode and that was the result. A very good result.
By the way, I really like your Garden party image. Well exposed, nicely detailed.
I completely agree with the comments, above, about Sony missing a trick by releasing hardware with incomplete software. There was a very distinct feeling of the camera firmware being unfinished on release. It is now firing on all cylinders but the review damage has been done.
You can see the difference when you look at GSM Arena's initial review of the phone and their following camera comparisons, post update. One is "disappointed", the others are full of praise.
And Sony have no-one to blame but themselves, for that.
Timaustin2000 said:
The burger stall image was actually taken with Superior Auto (I know!). It decided to throw the phone into "Spotlight" shooting mode and that was the result. A very good result.
By the way, I really like your Garden party image. Well exposed, nicely detailed.
I completely agree with the comments, above, about Sony missing a trick by releasing hardware with incomplete software. There was a very distinct feeling of the camera firmware being unfinished on release. It is now firing on all cylinders but the review damage has been done.
You can see the difference when you look at GSM Arena's initial review of the phone and their following camera comparisons, post update. One is "disappointed", the others are full of praise.
And Sony have no-one to blame but themselves, for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, basically everyone so far think it is a software issue.
I took some afternoon shots driving in 80 . The camera performs - now- without noise and got a crisp picture at what must be a really low shutterspeed. WTF?!
A situation Im never likøey to ever use the camera in again. Sigh, at drive by shooting it excels.
At indoor shots, it is agamble. Even with thenew firmware. It i proves markedly by manual exposure.
A total conclusion: it would be interrestimg having raw file possibilties. The camera is markedly better after the firmware update, and having the features in the camera button I am very pleased, however, where Im likley to use the camera most , indoors, it really needs an overhaul. I dont aleays have the time to enter manual mode! It is annoying that it defaults to full auto. Let me diecide!
Any other opinions
krimskram said:
So, basically everyone so far think it is a software issue.
I took some afternoon shots driving in 80 . The camera performs - now- without noise and got a crisp picture at what must be a really low shutterspeed. WTF?!
A situation Im never likøey to ever use the camera in again. Sigh, at drive by shooting it excels.
At indoor shots, it is agamble. Even with thenew firmware. It i proves markedly by manual exposure.
A total conclusion: it would be interrestimg having raw file possibilties. The camera is markedly better after the firmware update, and having the features in the camera button I am very pleased, however, where Im likley to use the camera most , indoors, it really needs an overhaul. I dont aleays have the time to enter manual mode! It is annoying that it defaults to full auto. Let me diecide!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, any other opinions?
krimskram said:
So, any other opinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One: you can set your camera to launch in Manual from the launcher dock without having to re-set it. Just add a "shortcut" to your homescreen, select camera and select manual. Pop that in the docked section at the bottom of the screen and you'll always have quick access to it.
Just a shame they don't give you the option to launch camera in manual by long-pressing the camera button.
Oh, and to the fella above who says that there are "6 other models" from earlier in the year that will beat the XZ1 in good light? With respect, I'm going to disagree: There's no way that an S4, One or G2 can beat the Z1 in good light - and I'm not sure I could point to any other Android that does. (note: the iPhone 5 isn't as good but the 5s comes darned close,... in good light. Thought it over-saturates light a *****).
The S4 over-saturates, the G2 has even worse post-processing than Sony (it's artifact central on a G2 - FAR too much artificial sharpening) and the One? Well, it's the One, isn't it? Yuck. And the Z1 has better detail and dynamic range than all of the above in good light - it has been remarked on numerous times in a good many reviews.
The only place it really falls down is exposure - sometimes it blows out light objects if left to it's own devices. But you have an exposure toggle to fix that so problem solved.
In all honesty, I don't think I've ever been as happy with a phone camera. In any light.
I am in the market for a new phone. I use an old Samsung S3 now. The Z3Compact seems perfect, but my only concern is the camera. I use my phone as my main camera, but general consensus seems to be that it is not as good as the camera on the S5 of iPhone6. I like to shoot directly in HDR mode, but that seems to be a problem on the Z3. Without rooting, could I install the Google Camera apk and if so, would the Z3C be able to use the HDR mode from the Google Camera app?
Or should I change my plans and go for the S5?
The Google camera app on the Play Store installs fine. I'll post some comparison shots later this morning.
My sister has an S3 and we were taking comparison photos in her kitchen yesterday - obviously the z3c is a significant step up in quality from the S3, though I realize that's not really your question.
Thanks! And it is no problem to use the HDR setting in the Google Camera app? On my Nexus 7 the HDR is greyed-out in the Google Camera App, it will nog show up on every device i read in the Google Q&A
Google camera app permits HDR on the z3c.
Sony camera app also has HDR toggle in manual mode, but is grayed out if resolution is set higher than 8mp.
I know of several reviews claiming that Sony's Superior Auto mode isn't HDR, but since that mode captures at 8mp I'm wondering if it doesn't use it's internal HDR algorithm in auto mode, despite what I've seen the reviewers claim. I can't really tell the difference between Superior Auto and Manual 8mp HDR photos taken with the Sony camera app.
---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------
Ok, here are some comparison pictures of the Z3C's camera, using both the Sony Camera App, and the Google Camera App from the Play store.
I have uploaded the pictures to an imgur album, and added descriptions for the six photos. Just for clarity's sake, I should mention I am not really into photography that much, and my skills are probably not up to par for composing or technique, so take that into account.
There are six pictures (they're labeled appropriately in the album, but I'm reproducing them here so people can decide if they're interested before viewing them, since the images are large):
1) Sony App, Superior Auto setting (8mp), No Flash
2) Sony App, Superior Auto setting (8mp), Flash
3) Sony App, Manual Setting at 20mp, No Flash
4) Sony App, Manual Setting at 20mp, Flash
5) Google App, HDR setting at 20mp, No Flash
6) Google App, HDR setting at 20mp, Flash
Here is the link to the imgur album:
http://imgur.com/a/KjL4D#0
Hope this is helpful.
I just did a quick Google cam vs stock cam test myself. The stock cam in auto mode definitely takes pics that are a little on the cold side. In manual mode though, it was more accurate. The google cam seemed more or less the same. I'm sticking with the stock Sony cam.
DrPanz said:
I am in the market for a new phone. I use an old Samsung S3 now. The Z3Compact seems perfect, but my only concern is the camera. I use my phone as my main camera, but general consensus seems to be that it is not as good as the camera on the S5 of iPhone6. I like to shoot directly in HDR mode, but that seems to be a problem on the Z3. Without rooting, could I install the Google Camera apk and if so, would the Z3C be able to use the HDR mode from the Google Camera app?
Or should I change my plans and go for the S5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People shouldn't act as if the camera is bad, it's not bad at all. Just in some situations it under performs against iOS and the S5 for example, but in other situations it' better.
Check out the topic I made for people with doubts, you can see samples there:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-compact/themes-apps/post-pictures-xperia-z3-compact-t2889119
Thank you. Not quite made up my mind yet. I read a lot of horrorstories on broken glass... maybe the S5 proves out to be a more secure option. Good camera, waterresistant and plastic - which in my S1 and S3 has survived a lot of drops.
I think it comes down to how important the form factor and potential battery life advantages are over other stuff.
There are choices with slightly better cameras and certainly ones less vulnerable to accidental damage.
For me, coming off Nexus 5 and Note 3, I am really prioritizing battery longevity, pocket friendliness and better one-handed comfort and use. So far I'm pleased but it's still early days so the jury's still out for me.
Be sure you can live with TouchWiz and other Samsung bloat (bugs with erroneous Knox warnings on the AT&T Note 3 model nearly drove me crazy). It really ruined my Note 3 experience for me and is what drove me to the Nexus 5, which in turn was somewhat spoiled by awful battery life despite rooting and aggressively optimizing (to the point of limiting usefulness) power consumption. Never got more than 8-10 realistic hours on the 5 no matter what I tried.
Form factor is great. As is battery life. That's one side. Other side is the camera, and how it stands up to a drop from the pocket. That last bit worries me.
Well I haven't had the Sony long enough to try and convince you the advantages outweigh the drawbacks - I may drop mine and destroy it this afternoon!
But I'm not sure any unprotected high end smartphone stands all that good a chance of surviving any particular dropping incident, and adding a protective case to a smaller device still nets you a slightly larger small device that is still a a lot smaller profile than a bigger device with a protective case. Just my. 02 worth.
It's not only dropping, but also spontanious cracks when carrying the Z3C in te front pocket. of your jeans. Been reading a lot of reports on that the last days.
Most of those reports are duplicates. Only a few confirmed cases.
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
As far as I'm concerned, every other phone has more so-called "dealbreakers" than the Z3C. This phone has so many plusses that outweigh any possible negatives that people need to imagine faults and come up with ridiculous issues not to get it, and that's their loss.
In this German test of the Z3C the back panel cracked spontaniously:
http://www.areamobile.de/handys/4275-sony-xperia-z3-compact/testbericht
Sony states it was an isolated incident. Yeah...
DrPanz said:
I am in the market for a new phone. I use an old Samsung S3 now. The Z3Compact seems perfect, but my only concern is the camera. I use my phone as my main camera, but general consensus seems to be that it is not as good as the camera on the S5 of iPhone6. I like to shoot directly in HDR mode, but that seems to be a problem on the Z3. Without rooting, could I install the Google Camera apk and if so, would the Z3C be able to use the HDR mode from the Google Camera app?
Or should I change my plans and go for the S5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like to take nature photos, and if you are planning to watch the photos on something larger than the phone display, the Z3/compact is a bad choice. In this post is a comparison with the galaxy note 3
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=55980596&postcount=127
Now, this is viewing the pixels 1:1, which probably most people won't bother with. But even when scaling down this particular photo to about 2MP, the compression artifacts can still be noticed, and the GN3 photo is the better one! And it definitely proves that in certain cases, like photos with much detail, there are much better cameras out there.
But in other cases the Z3 camera produces beautiful images (if you don't look too closely), and it is great for low light photos. But for anything with trees or grass - definitely no!
radicans said:
If you like to take nature photos, and if you are planning to watch the photos on something larger than the phone display, the Z3/compact is a bad choice. In this post is a comparison with the galaxy note 3
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=55980596&postcount=127
Now, this is viewing the pixels 1:1, which probably most people won't bother with. But even when scaling down this particular photo to about 2MP, the compression artifacts can still be noticed, and the GN3 photo is the better one! And it definitely proves that in certain cases, like photos with much detail, there are much better cameras out there.
But in other cases the Z3 camera produces beautiful images (if you don't look too closely), and it is great for low light photos. But for anything with trees or grass - definitely no!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. the camera performance issues, the fact that HDR is a bit of a hustle to reach, and the reports of cracking displays have made me nervous enough to put my plans for buying the Z3C on hold, and maybe buy the S5. Not as pretty as the Z3C, but it may prove out to be a safe choice for now.
DrPanz said:
Thanks. the camera performance issues, the fact that HDR is a bit of a hustle to reach, and the reports of cracking displays have made me nervous enough to put my plans for buying the Z3C on hold, and maybe buy the S5. Not as pretty as the Z3C, but it may prove out to be a safe choice for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HDR is easy, you just have to set it to 8MP or less, then HDR switch becomes available. And with the Z3 there is no point whatsoever to shoot in anything larger than 8MP anyway!
But yeah, if I would have known about the camera compression/oversharpening issues I would have settled for another phone. And speaking of compression, the funny thing is that in the comparison photos i posted, the file size of the inferior Z3 photo is about twice as large over the galaxy note photo!! Nice one Sony..
What would have been the smartphone you would have chosen in stead?
Well, there are not many options, if you want to keep pocketability, form factor and dedicated camera button.
I have some nice results with Pro Capture, but compared to stock camera app with a little touch of post processing (Snapseed e.g.), the camera is capable of some nice shots. But it's nothing THAT special really.
Still, beats my Nexus5 in terms of focus speed, which is kinda important for me, so...
But, YMMV.
DrPanz said:
What would have been the smartphone you would have chosen in stead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I really want the "small" form factor of Z3c, but without compromises. So that leaves most phones out I guess. Samsung galaxy alpha would have been nice, if it wasn't for the battery time and the big price tag. Probably would have waited with the purchase another 6 months or so, and see what the market looked like at that point.
I know I have ranted lots on the camera, but all things considered, it's still a great phone!
Make the encryption optional
Make the LED light work without rooting
-Camera software tweaks to improve shutter speed, vid recording in Hangouts, etc
-Unlink notification/ringer sounds
-Make the ascending ringtones optional!
-Optimize the sw to get better battery life.
optional ascending ringtones
Faster Autofocus/Picture taking
Better focusing in Video
Yes, better battery life is a must also.
Better video quality ,it looks really bad . improve the camera its all software issues that need fixing. My battery life is better than my note 3 so no complaints about that. Change the really big dumb icons to a normal size. The DPI on this phone should be between 400/450. Make the dial app one process to get to instead of two. I shouldn't have to click the dial icon to have to click another icon just to get to the dial.
Better battery
Much slimmer body (7mm or less)
Best QHD/4K Display (dont want it, but it will happen regardless...so might as well make it the best display possible, unlike the N6's sub-par one)
4gig DDR4
64bit top processor
Front facing speakers
Tiny front bezels
6.2inch screen in the same body size as a Nexus 6
IR blaster
Camera software that actually can better an iPhone 7 in all lighting conditions; optimize the stock camera software to Apple/Samsung levels.
20mp rear dual camera with dual tone flashes (dual camera phones are producing better images)
5-10mp front camera with flash
NFC
Wireless charging
Completely water proof
Notification LED
Fingerprint scanner (the same kind as the iPhone where you press your finger, not swipe it)
Better designed phone in terms of aesthetics, the giant NEXUS logo is a bit tacky
Full metal phone
support for the fastest LTE available and fastest WiFi & Bluetooth
Battery life that lasts 3days at least
4K video recording that works
OIS - but an advanced version
Decently priced
The list goes on...
In all seriousness while my list is completely doable and Google is capable of making such a phone, it likely wont. This is not how companies work - since when did any company release a phone that perfectly matched what your expectations were? In my opinion, never, there is always something left out which could've been added. For example the PS4/Xbox One were made on a budget to be cost effective, and as a result they are not powerful machines like their predecessors were when released. The next 'Nexus' phone (or whatever it will be called) will be a minor upgrade on the Nexus 6. Sure, it will likely have 64bit processor, a new camera sensor and different design. But it will also likely be outclassed by other phones on the market, like the Note 5, just like how the Nexus 6 is outdone by the Note 4 in terms of features (not just talking software; Note 4 has a better screen, camera hardware and arguably better quality battery despite being the same size). Phones are increasingly receiving smaller and smaller upgrades. Are phone cameras from 3 years ago dramatically worse than today? Not really. Are phones from 2+ years ago that much slower in normal use (calls, texts etc) compared to today's new phones? They are slower, but in normal use, completely fine and not that bad. The rate of progression in phones is slowing down a little, so the next Nexus wont be a huge upgrade in terms of everyday use.
spartanm99 said:
Better battery
Much slimmer body (7mm or less)
Best QHD/4K Display (dont want it, but it will happen regardless...so might as well make it the best display possible, unlike the N6's sub-par one)
4gig DDR4
64bit top processor
Front facing speakers
Tiny front bezels
6.2inch screen in the same body size as a Nexus 6
IR blaster
Camera software that actually can better an iPhone 7 in all lighting conditions; optimize the stock camera software to Apple/Samsung levels.
20mp rear dual camera with dual tone flashes (dual camera phones are producing better images)
5-10mp front camera with flash
NFC
Wireless charging
Completely water proof
Notification LED
Fingerprint scanner (the same kind as the iPhone where you press your finger, not swipe it)
Better designed phone in terms of aesthetics, the giant NEXUS logo is a bit tacky
Full metal phone
support for the fastest LTE available and fastest WiFi & Bluetooth
Battery life that lasts 3days at least
4K video recording that works
OIS - but an advanced version
Decently priced
The list goes on...
In all seriousness while my list is completely doable and Google is capable of making such a phone, it likely wont. This is not how companies work - since when did any company release a phone that perfectly matched what your expectations were? In my opinion, never, there is always something left out which could've been added. For example the PS4/Xbox One were made on a budget to be cost effective, and as a result they are not powerful machines like their predecessors were when released. The next 'Nexus' phone (or whatever it will be called) will be a minor upgrade on the Nexus 6. Sure, it will likely have 64bit processor, a new camera sensor and different design. But it will also likely be outclassed by other phones on the market, like the Note 5, just like how the Nexus 6 is outdone by the Note 4 in terms of features (not just talking software; Note 4 has a better screen, camera hardware and arguably better quality battery despite being the same size). Phones are increasingly receiving smaller and smaller upgrades. Are phone cameras from 3 years ago dramatically worse than today? Not really. Are phones from 2+ years ago that much slower in normal use (calls, texts etc) compared to today's new phones? They are slower, but in normal use, completely fine and not that bad. The rate of progression in phones is slowing down a little, so the next Nexus wont be a huge upgrade in terms of everyday use.
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Kinda hard to change all that in a simple software update.
knitler said:
Kinda hard to change all that in a simple software update.
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I read the thread as update to the Nexus 6, did not think of it as a software update.
However better camera software would be good. When I say better, I mean far better post-processing, faster focus and better use of the hardware. Not sure that will ever happen though, since it really hasn't ever happened before to make any major upgrades. Encryption being a choice would be good too.
spartanm99 said:
I read the thread as update to the Nexus 6, did not think of it as a software update.
However better camera software would be good. When I say better, I mean far better post-processing, faster focus and better use of the hardware. Not sure that will ever happen though, since it really hasn't ever happened before to make any major upgrades. Encryption being a choice would be good too.
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I just bought manual camera from the play store. The app is pretty awesome. It supports raw... Pictures snap instantly. So far im impressed. Huge upgrade over the Google camera.
Smallsmx3 said:
I just bought manual camera from the play store. The app is pretty awesome. It supports raw... Pictures snap instantly. So far im impressed. Huge upgrade over the Google camera.
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Until it supports video it's a no-go for me.
Smallsmx3 said:
I just bought manual camera from the play store. The app is pretty awesome. It supports raw... Pictures snap instantly. So far im impressed. Huge upgrade over the Google camera.
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I've just read about this app. It appears to be a huge improvement over the stock camera but it does need to have the option to save your settings, use the front camera and use video recording on both front and rear cameras. I'm sure they will implement these features though, it is the next logical step with this app. Happy that someone is making a high quality camera app - it is a good start.
I'll likely buy it eventually if video recording is supported for both cameras as well as the front camera being supported, naturally. So far, it looks good.
Thanks for sharing this info!
bonebeatz1234 said:
Better video quality ,it looks really bad . improve the camera its all software issues that need fixing.
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I am an Android fan, and a professional photographer. I know what really upscale gear costs, as I use it almost daily.
The video recording quality of the N6 is atrocious. Very poor encoding, very poor S/N. And this applies to both 1080p and 4k. I know the 4k video recording was a marketing gimmick - a test so to speak - but I fully expected the 1080p to be without the same artifacts and poor S/N when recording.
My beef is easily replicated - the background brightness "stairsteps" instead of smoothly transitioning if you move your camera (up and down slowly - watch the background adjust as the angle changes) to change the angle of view. If a blank wall is behind the subject, you can see the brightness "click" up and down as the brightness/contrast level changes. Same thing occurs with the sky if it happens to be the background. It should be like a smooth volume control, not a click-stop. This results in it being unusable when viewed.
I am not suggesting it work in extremely low light. I'm talking bright, indirect lighting (always better than harsh direct light). It just fails in these mild conditions.
I have no way to know if this can be upgraded in software.
Side by side with an iPhone 6Plus shooting simple 1080p video there is simply no comparison, The N6 sucks, and it otherwise pleases me very much.
I have all of the third party apps and really enjoy the flexibility they impart. My favorite is Cinema FV-5. Unfortunately, they do nothing whatsoever except leverage the APIs. They do not introduce better encoding, etc.
The way this camera behaves with video recording is not even close to parity with other upscale devices. Remember, i am not talking about still photo capture, nor am I referring to video playback. I am perfectly fine with those on this device. I have very upscale gear, mostly I rent Red, and I shoot 4K weekly. I just want reasonable video.
I am hoping for the best.
Insights are welcomed. I love my phone, except for this and it frustrates me to sense video recording is a marketing buzz word versus a core feature.
Multi window.
dan04103 said:
Multi window.
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There are alternatives on the play store, but not as powerful/clean as Samsung's integrated framework of course.
C00lBeanz said:
Make the encryption optional
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DEFINITELY will not happen. Best you can hope for is HWCRYPTO, which will yield the performance of no-crypto, so problem solved regardless.
Make the LED light work without rooting
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I realllllllly doubt you'll see this. Google is not known for altering user facing features after a device is launched.
1. No forced encryption.
2.Fix USB OTG so flash drives actually mount.
One hand mode.
bench_strength said:
I am hoping for the best.
Insights are welcomed. I love my phone, except for this and it frustrates me to sense video recording is a marketing buzz word versus a core feature.
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So you are a professional. What are you expecting?
There is a cost of miniaturization.
The sensors are so small compared to the REDs you use or SLRs.
Phone to phone comparison is probably a better way to look at it. Without looking at the specs and hardware for iphone 6+ and nexus 6, apple just sourced a better camera on the market. It's the same deal with the fingerprint scanner as well. They bought it all up, and left none of the 'good' stuff for moto/google.
8Fishes said:
So you are a professional. What are you expecting?
There is a cost of miniaturization.
The sensors are so small compared to the REDs you use or SLRs.
Phone to phone comparison is probably a better way to look at it. Without looking at the specs and hardware for iphone 6+ and nexus 6, apple just sourced a better camera on the market. It's the same deal with the fingerprint scanner as well. They bought it all up, and left none of the 'good' stuff for moto/google.
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I agree with your analysis, up to the point where I use the camera for still shots. It works very well, especially with stock HDR+ or with a third party app to control all of the core tools. I am completely OK with it.
Your points about sensors is true, no debating that.
The still photos and the video use the same lens. The photos are tack sharp if care is taken (3rd party) or HDR+ is used exclusively.
The video appears to be almost completely dependant upon processing. Processing is software. I would like to think they could improve this significantly IF they gave two hoots.
All the review sites say the stills are great with good lighting... how well do the stills handle "motion blur"?
Samsung Note 4 got heaps of praise all over the place for its camera with stills but nobody ever said "hey, all the pictures of your toddler will be blurs because the camera is terrible capturing motion with indoors low light conditions."
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
You honestly can't get a better camera on a device. It is fantastic in all conditions. It is only good though if you use the stock lg ROM since its camera app really makes the pictures great. If you use a ROM like cyanogenmod then you can't use the stock camera app so your photos won't be as good as they could be.
The camera is the best you can get In a phone right now. Its better than the s6 by a little. The 6p is also badass but the g4 and 6p have different areas of 'bad-ass-ness' that they insividually excel in. If you get a g4 you will become spoiled and will not ever be able to use ****ty cameras ever again.
Simple specific question and I get two generic fan-boy responses. I'll ask again: how well does the camera handle capturing still pictures of motion in low light indoors conditions?
And to get to the point, please don't waste time with the fan-boy posts.
Show me what you got with low light indoors motion.
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vprasad1 said:
Simple specific question and I get two generic fan-boy responses. I'll ask again: how well does the camera handle capturing still pictures of motion in low light indoors conditions?
And to get to the point, please don't waste time with the fan-boy posts.
Show me what you got with low light indoors motion.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
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The absolute best camera on a phone is that found on the Nokia 808 and Lumia 1020. The camera on the G4 is probably the best of the Androids I have owned but it doesn't hold a candle to the aforementioned camera phones. In low light there is alot of noise (even with the OIS). If you would like a great low light camera or the best camera on a phone I would look up one of the earlier mentioned devices. The 1020 excels at low light (the 808 not as much due to the of OIS).
So Google used that same sensor for pretty much the 4th year, their computational photography remains excellent but this year compated to other devices I own I think Google have slipped slightly behind the pack and ultimately brute force hardware coupled with improving software. The iPhone (12 pro) is now better across the board in my opinion in everything except maybe edge detection on portrait shots.
Compared to other droids it is less clear cut. I do think that the Pixel still delivers the best images on a consistent basis i.e. take 100 pictures on your Pixel and most will come out good whereas on a Samsung or OnePlus for example you will get less keepers especially on the Samsung if people and pets are involved. I do think however that the overall technical quality has fallen behind and I see a lot more grain in Pixel shots vs. the competition these days due I am sure to the bigger newer sensors on other droids.
Don't get me wrong if I had to choose 1 droid to take to Disney World I'd still go with the Pixel but if I had to choose a phone full stop to take it would be the iPhone hands down.
Here is hoping that transfering all the learnings to a new main sensor will not prove too challenging for them next year!
i think overall it's pretty clear that the pixel still competes at the top with a lower price which is great. But i'd like to know how good the camera of the pixel 5 works in all kind of third party apps because i have red that googles magic only works if you use the camera app. I have red multiple times that the video quality in whatsapp is horrible and i wonder how it performs in snapchat, duo and whatever other apps are popular right now.
For some reason people nowadays tend to go to extremes way to fast, so i don't know what to think of it. If anyone has tried out a few apps i'd like to read some short reviews.
Floge999 said:
i think overall it's pretty clear that the pixel still competes at the top with a lower price which is great. But i'd like to know how good the camera of the pixel 5 works in all kind of third party apps because i have red that googles magic only works if you use the camera app. I have red multiple times that the video quality in whatsapp is horrible and i wonder how it performs in snapchat, duo and whatever other apps are popular right now.
For some reason people nowadays tend to go to extremes way to fast, so i don't know what to think of it. If anyone has tried out a few apps i'd like to read some short reviews.
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This is a complicated one as 3rd party camera apps do not get the full access needed for a fair comparison.
this is likely because they got things just right with the current sensor and any hardware change would require reworking and potential loss of prominence on the camera-phone stage.
Not that bad after all...
Blind camera comparison @Phonearena
The wide angle lens is absolutely terrible in low light and that's not using an old sensor is it?
Google pixel focus on over all experience i think itis great . End of day all of them i 12 mp camera with decent size sensor how much do you think make different not a lot. It all about personal choice