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Hi guys, I'm thinking about buying the Samsung Vibrant (That's the US Tmobile version of the Galaxy S for clarification) and I noticed that it can play 720P and it has a WVGA screen. These days, a lot of phones are capable of technically "playing" 720P video but none, even including the almighty retina display, have hd capable screens. But I was just wondering, besides being able to play its own recordings, what is the point of watching HD videos on a screen that really can only play 450P (keeping to true wide screen aspect ratio of course)? It just uses more battery and system resources to decode the higher res video when the end result is identical. Watching 720P on a WVGA screen is tantamount to hooking up a Bluray player to a non-HD screen. What's the point?
And yes, I'm well aware of the phone's DLNA capabilities.
Beats re-encoding right?
I think because the screen is so small and the resolution is high, it gives you the illusion of watching something in HD. If you compare a DVD rip to a 720p video on Galaxy, you'll definitely notice a difference. And the Super AMOLED screen helps too
Yeah, I can see how it's more convenient to just throw it on there raw but it seems like I'd rather take the effort to make it a lower resolution to save space on the phone if it looks the same either way?
And is there really that noticeable of a difference? I'd love it if someone could show a comparison picture between the same scene of a video in 720p and 480p on the galaxy screen to see if it's significant. Also, it might be possible that android is using sub-pixel interpolation to emulate the higher resolution.
Well the screen is a tiny bit wider than the 720 pixels you get from a DVD. Better to downsize than upsize, especially on such a sharp screen! I find that when watching DVD quality videos on a laptop, you notice the artefacts and low quality less than on the phone.
Robin.B said:
Well the screen is a tiny bit wider than the 720 pixels you get from a DVD. Better to downsize than upsize, especially on such a sharp screen! I find that when watching DVD quality videos on a laptop, you notice the artefacts and low quality less than on the phone.
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720p is actually 1280x720 pixels, the phone has 800x480, there should be no difference to your eyes from viewing a high quality 480p video or a 720p.... People are probably comparing a low quality 480p DVDrip with a high quality 720p video, and that's why they are seeing a difference (color quality and sharpness play a big roll here). It makes no sense to watch HD content on the phone, a good 480p will look just as good and will take less processing power...
Thank you!
aeo087 said:
720p is actually 1280x720 pixels, the phone has 800x480, there should be no difference to your eyes from viewing a high quality 480p video or a 720p.... People are probably comparing a low quality 480p DVDrip with a high quality 720p video, and that's why they are seeing a difference (color quality and sharpness play a big roll here). It makes no sense to watch HD content on the phone, a good 480p will look just as good and will take less processing power...
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That is exactly what I've been saying this entire time! And since true 480p is actually 848 x 480, I've been encoding all my videos to 800 x 450 because my hd2's screen just can't take proper advantage of hd. Somewhat ironic considering its name. It requires less processing power and with good encoding, you lose very little quality compared to the original video. This whole 720P playback seems to be just another marketing ploy like the megapixel battle was. Just another bullet to throw on the spec sheet.
Update: If anyone reading this would like to test the quality difference between video resolutions on their respective HD capable device, here's a great test clip in several resolutions: http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/index.php/download/
Yes, it's ideal to reencode to maximize size usage if you're gonna keep the video on the memory for a period of time.
However, for those HD videos that you've downloaded, and you have no wish to dl a SD version of it just for portable viewing, and it's something that you're gonna watch once and delete, that's where the functionality to view HD media comes in handy.
In short, it's more convenient to have the ability than to do without it.
kenkiller said:
Yes, it's ideal to reencode to maximize size usage if you're gonna keep the video on the memory for a period of time.
However, for those HD videos that you've downloaded, and you have no wish to dl a SD version of it just for portable viewing, and it's something that you're gonna watch once and delete, that's where the functionality to view HD media comes in handy.
In short, it's more convenient to have the ability than to do without it.
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Hmmm good point. I suppose I'll just chalk it up to "convenient but not very practical." Thanks for all the great replies!
Very true and i believe the 720p which actually is for the video output..i just got the Nokia CA75-U cable and the 720p video playback is amazing on big screen TV.
tony800708 said:
Very true and i believe the 720p which actually is for the video output..i just got the Nokia CA75-U cable and the 720p video playback is amazing on big screen TV.
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That's not 720p, it's standard definition tv.
aeo087 said:
720p is actually 1280x720 pixels, the phone has 800x480, there should be no difference to your eyes from viewing a high quality 480p video or a 720p.... People are probably comparing a low quality 480p DVDrip with a high quality 720p video, and that's why they are seeing a difference (color quality and sharpness play a big roll here). It makes no sense to watch HD content on the phone, a good 480p will look just as good and will take less processing power...
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Yes, but I meant DVD resolution which has 720 pixels in width.
Besides, my entire collection is in 720p HD.. So when I'm going out and want a movie/series with me for boring times when travelling, it's nice to not have to convert them/re-download a lesser quality rip.
I also think I see a difference, tested with a SD-rip of Top Gear vs HD-rip of it. But might just be in my mind Seems sharper though.
You kow, videos encodings are at different resolutions for luminance and chrominance data.
Color data is often half or quarter the resolution of the actual video resolution.
A properly encoded 1280x720 video will look better than the same encoded at 840x480.
Considering the processing power, when video decoding and scaling are done by hardware, power consumption will be almost identical.
tundra84 said:
Hmmm good point. I suppose I'll just chalk it up to "convenient but not very practical." Thanks for all the great replies!
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Not practical only for you maybe, but different people have different needs. Don't assume that you can decide for the whole world.
Any devs looking at the possibility to record movies in fullhd, 1080p ? I seem to remember I read somewhere that it should be capable of it.
Well if it is capable of recording in full-HD then why wouldn't Samsung themselves implement it so to make more sales?
leoon said:
Well if it is capable of recording in full-HD then why wouldn't Samsung themselves implement it so to make more sales?
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Are we talking about the same company that decided to use rfs filesystem and use reserved memory thus limiting available ram... not to mention the weak wi-fi reception / gps issues.
INeedYourHelp said:
Are we talking about the same company that decided to use rfs filesystem and use reserved memory thus limiting available ram... not to mention the weak wi-fi reception / gps issues.
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Exactly my point, there could be a thousand of different reasons. But maybe our devs inhere are a bit sharper than Samsung themselves...
People have made mods that claim an extra 20 - 30 megabytes of RAM. When these are applied problems are noticed with 720p recording. Imagine the ram usage for 1080p. I don't think its worth the hassle.
1080p used in mobile phones do you think will be much better?
come on!
i dont think so...
Especially since the audio is still bollixed... if they fixed that first.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk
Dont think it need it.
First if hardware permit to record 1080p stream the 5megapixels chip wont manage to provide 1080p frames with a decent framerate.
then if it could the optics wont be able to resolve the resolution gain.compared with n8 nokia or iphone 4 720p output you can see what there s place for improvement in this way(sharpest optic and better sensibility)
but may our dev can work on compression level to keep more fine detail , sensibility management or faster autofocus without resolution change.
think this is the only reasonable improvement we could expect by software mod
Well, I have problems with 1080p playing, let alone recording.
Anyway, the hardware is 100% capable of 1080p recording and it would be really cool if some can mod it.
medimel said:
Dont think it need it.
First if hardware permit to record 1080p stream the 5megapixels chip wont manage to provide 1080p frames with a decent framerate.
then if it could the optics wont be able to resolve the resolution gain.compared with n8 nokia or iphone 4 720p output you can see what there s place for improvement in this way(sharpest optic and better sensibility)
but may our dev can work on compression level to keep more fine detail , sensibility management or faster autofocus without resolution change.
think this is the only reasonable improvement we could expect by software mod
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Hummingbird is capable of 1080p hardware decoding/encoding. It's equipped with hardware encoders/decoders. Both of them require decent amount of RAM reserved. I think that was the issue.
5mpix sensor is perfectly capable of delivering decent framerate @720p, why wouldn't it be capable of 1080p?
Resolution is enough, there might be bandwidth limiting factors between sensor-CPU.
Optics is perfectly capable of making quite sharp photos @5mpix, why wouldn't it be capable of shooting just 1920x1080?
There will be no software mod enabling 1080p recording, without hacking into hardware codecs/drivers.
Even if the framerate would go down to 15-20 fps, I would personally really like this feature. Some moments are best captured in highest resolution possible. An idea about the memory could be to allocate needed amount on demand, thereafter releasing it again?
Thanks for confirming that our Galaxy S is indeed hardware-wise capable of recording in 1920x1080.
Actually, why 1080p? It doesn't NEED to be 1080p. Why can't we add support for 800p (800lines vertical res) or even 960p.
We keep thinking about making the jump to 1080p, but is there any reason why would couldn't ramp up the resolution higher on the camera? Just because your TV expects 720p, doesn't mean computers do when playing it back...
andrewluecke said:
Actually, why 1080p? It doesn't NEED to be 1080p. Why can't we add support for 800p (800lines vertical res) or even 960p.
We keep thinking about making the jump to 1080p, but is there any reason why would couldn't ramp up the resolution higher on the camera? Just because your TV expects 720p, doesn't mean computers do when playing it back...
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800p and 960p are not common, so it would make things awkward. Can't play it on a 720p screen and not properly on a 720p screen.
BTW although noticable I don't think the difference between 1080p and 720p is that big. So I don't think anyone would really notice the difference between 720p and 960p and if so probably more as a placebo than a real difference.
Mycorrhiza said:
800p and 960p are not common, so it would make things awkward. Can't play it on a 720p screen and not properly on a 720p screen.
BTW although noticable I don't think the difference between 1080p and 720p is that big. So I don't think anyone would really notice the difference between 720p and 960p and if so probably more as a placebo than a real difference.
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I agree on the odd formats. However, going from 720p to 1080p is a significant improvement, especially if you have a large ( 46" + ) flat panal to view things on.
I would be very interested in this. And for everyone saying its not needed, this is a development forum. Many many many things that are done are "not needed" but still pretty cool. He asked if it could be done, lets stick to if it can, not if it should.
xan said:
5mpix sensor is perfectly capable of delivering decent framerate @720p, why wouldn't it be capable of 1080p?
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720 from 5 meg camera is already seriously pushing it, almost hack wise. Normally only 8 meg cameras should support it. And im not speaking about 1080...
The sensors usually can't deliver 30 fps at 1080p even if the hardware can encode it (which ive seen no tech specs of,just various "web claims" aka moot stuff)
It's not because its a 5MP sensor etc, its about how much data can go through the sensor after it's captured (that's before the CPU/DSP!!) You have very good 5MP 1080p cameras, because the sensors can handle it. They also cost more. I highly doubt the one in the SGS can handle much more than 720p at 30fps.
i'd rather have the image processing improved than 1080p, since 1080p (if it could be done that is) will be approx the same quality as 720p, use twice the space and need twice the power to decode on other systems.
in fact even the encoder can maybe be optimized. i'm not familiar with the hummingbird, but the OMAP's have TI's own such hardware codecs and while its proprietary you can implement your own codec accelerated by the DSP.
HummingBird's codec produce "very average" 720p H264 mainline (i believe?) at 10-12mbits (!)
Compare with x264 4mbit 720p H264 high profile quality for the same source, it blasts it away quality wise and is 2/2.5x smaller in file size. besides it has a zillion options depending if you want quality, latency etc.
bottom line, if a genius would accelerate x264 via the DSP it would be awesome.
I know the x264 team worked on the OMAP DSP with little success, mostly due to rather cryptic documentation
There are plenty of PC displays which AREN'T 1080P (only cheap ones). 1080p and 720p is optimal for TV's, but not computer displays. There are plenty of computer displays which are 1200 lines vertical resolution.
And I've found a difference between 720p and 1080p, but it's more obvious on larger displays which supports higher resolutions
I'd rather have slow-motion and a proper app that enables video editing/cutting/sound mixing just with Iphone 4.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I'm inclined to agree, theres room for improvement at 720p, its like the same logic as low end cameras and camera phones alike ramping up the pixel count doesn't directly mean better quality..
Plus the phone although it should be able to currently doesn't like playing back 1080p videos...
I'm not saying everyones going to want to watch 1080p on an 800 x 400 panel, just saying you might want to play back what you've just recorded to see how its come out..
Was testing Asphalt 8 today, and noticed that gameplay was more or less the same as it was in the Note 2. Seems like we're reaching a plateau in the world of mobile technology.
arjun90 said:
Was testing Asphalt 8 today, and noticed that gameplay was more or less the same as it was in the Note 2. Seems like we're reaching plateau in what can be done in mobile technology.
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Isn't Asphalt 8 locked at 30fps?
Anyway,youve got all those extra pixels to render with the Note 4,it will stress the CPU/GPU more. I believe Annandtechs tests showed that running the S805 with a 2k screen gave similar performance to running the S800 with a 1080screen.
I forgot to think from that perspective. Seems like the game is locked at 30fps. I really see no use of those extra pixels and thus unnecessary battery drain though I've achieved over 3 days with the standard battery.
Batfink33 said:
Isn't Asphalt 8 locked at 30fps?
Anyway,youve got all those extra pixels to render with the Note 4,it will stress the CPU/GPU more. I believe Annandtechs tests showed that running the S805 with a 2k screen gave similar performance to running the S800 with a 1080screen.
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arjun90 said:
I forgot to think from that perspective. Seems like the game is locked at 30fps. I really see no use of those extra pixels and thus unnecessary battery drain though I've achieved over 3 days with the standard battery.
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There's only going to be more pixels, wait for 4k phones at the end of this year!
4K on a small screen is crippling when think in terms of battery drain. Wonder what the future of battery technology will bring to the table.
Batfink33 said:
There's only going to be more pixels, wait for 4k phones at the end of this year!
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I feel you. I've also upgraded from note 2 (which is now with my wife). Really, other than a better scree/ pixel density, I don't see much in the Note 4. May thinner profile/ better build quality. I still feel that the camera is downgraded (except for the fact that the note 4 has better control over spherical aberration). I really miss the macro mode in the note 4. Gaming, as you already mentioned, isn't any different.
I see the camera at fault as well. Not defective, but in low-light, tends to get grainy without the flash. Perhaps I haven't taken enough low-light pictures w/o flash with my Note 2 to notice this. For outdoors, the HDR modes works great with the Note 4; I do like the ability to enhance the photo, edit, and get creative. Software, there are some things I miss, especially Quick Glance, and features in the Galaxy S4, which I never got to experience, not that those software features are gimmicky.
vasishta.sushant said:
I feel you. I've also upgraded from note 2 (which is now with my wife). Really, other than a better scree/ pixel density, I don't see much in the Note 4. May thinner profile/ better build quality. I still feel that the camera is downgraded (except for the fact that the note 4 has better control over spherical aberration). I really miss the macro mode in the note 4. Gaming, as you already mentioned, isn't any different.
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You may need to get your eyes checked lol massive difference
Asphalt 8 is not locked at 30fps, the note 4 Exynos during game gives around 60fps while Snapdragon 45fps.
The Note 3 Snapdragon is around 30fps.
You can test the FPS whit the app "Gamebench". It needs root.
Lodix said:
Asphalt 8 is not locked at 30fps, the note 4 Exynos during game gives around 60fps while Snapdragon 45fps.
The Note 3 Snapdragon is around 30fps.
You can test the FPS whit the app "Gamebench". It needs root.
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Lodix,
Thanks for the plug mate Just a note - GameBench doesn't require root - you can launch it using our desktop launcher just fine If you have root we can launch it for you.
Cheers,
Jake Daynes
Head of Web Development
GameBench Ltd.
Confirmed 60fps. The massive difference is only on the display quality, not the game play; subtle differences only.
Ausboy 2011 said:
You may need to get your eyes checked lol massive difference
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arjun90 said:
Confirmed 60fps. The massive difference is only on the display quality, not the game play; subtle differences only.
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Seems like OP is on cloud 9.
LOL. :silly: I was just basing this on various articles I came across on Google, can't confirm real world value, unless I perform the diagnostics. Though Antutu does mention my overall score to be 49,888. My Note 2 only reached 18,000. Seems odd that the real world performance difference is subtle. Forget gaming, my Note 4 does feel a lot smoother and I can keep more apps running in the background compared to the Note 2.
jonahtriangle said:
Seems like OP is on cloud 9.
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dude Note 2 with mali 400 can play almost every game around 30fps @720p but Note driving x4 the amount of pixels which needs a lot of power + adreno drivers sucks and games always run better on non adreno GPUs like mali , Powervr
anyway i don't think any android game support 1440p or even 1080p natively they are just get up scaled i think which is just wasting of gpu/cpu power if android allows user to change the res of the game like windows that would be great
[email protected] > [email protected]
That's why I miss the Mali / Exynos combination. Hopefully, my next Galaxy device will feature this.
yahyoh said:
dude Note 2 with mali 400 can play almost every game around 30fps @720p but Note driving x4 the amount of pixels which needs a lot of power + adreno drivers sucks and games always run better on non adreno GPUs like mali , Powervr
anyway i don't think any android game support 1440p or even 1080p natively they are just get up scaled i think which is just wasting of gpu/cpu power if android allows user to change the res of the game like windows that would be great
[email protected] > [email protected]
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arjun90 said:
Confirmed 60fps. The massive difference is only on the display quality, not the game play; subtle differences only.
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Can you share a screenshot ??
Anyone give it a go yet?
What do you think? Better yet, has anyone directly compared 60fps on Note vs the XS Max?
Looks like its only available for the US variant. Probably only Snapdragon. Tried it no 60fps on exynos.
Kind of expected. Uninstalled...
Since the XS Max got a 120Hz screen I wonder if it can actually got beyond 60Hz.
vash2pid said:
Looks like its only available for the US variant. Probably only Snapdragon. Tried it no 60fps on exynos.
Kind of expected. Uninstalled...
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The snapdragon 945 GPU is around 35% faster in fortnite (and most GPU tasks), so no surprise here. Comparing to the iphone xs is pointless tho as the GPU in the A12 is faster sustained vs the benchmark PEAK performance in sd855 (yep, not a type - sd855, so you can guess where this puts the sd845, especially sustained).
Nastrahl said:
Since the XS Max got a 120Hz screen I wonder if it can actually got beyond 60Hz.
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No iPhone have 120hz refresh rate, only their iPads. If you want that Razer 2 offers that.
hmsq said:
No iPhone have 120hz refresh rate, only their iPads. If you want that Razer 2 offers that.
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However that is what it's written on the GSM arena page about its specs.
Nastrahl said:
However that is what it's written on the GSM arena page about its specs.
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So it's a faux 120hz refresh the display itself is still 60hz unlike the iPad Pros. https://beebom.com/iphone-xs-xs-max-xr-120hz-touch-sensing/ From this article, it looks like it only increases touch response.
GallardosEggrollShop said:
So it's a faux 120hz refresh the display itself is still 60hz unlike the iPad Pros. https://beebom.com/iphone-xs-xs-max-xr-120hz-touch-sensing/ From this article, it looks like it only increases touch response.
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Oh I understand now. Thanks.
Sorry for the confusion.
Well it plays pretty amazing! Some stutter at high graphics setting so had to turn down to low graphics and keep the 60fps.
Quite incredible actually! Huge advantage against 30fps players. Got 14 eliminations easily in team rumble.
krypto1300 said:
Well it plays pretty amazing! Some stutter at high graphics setting so had to turn down to low graphics and keep the 60fps.
Quite incredible actually! Huge advantage against 30fps players. Got 14 eliminations easily in team rumble.
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Yeah, the difference between 30 and 60fps for a first person shooter is quite big. Sadly not only the exynos note 9 doesn't support 60fps, but it also on the last versions is locked to maximum high GFX (EPIC is grayed out). So samsung thinks it's fair to sell you for more money a phone that has the same name, but can go maximum to high 30fps (it's also not smooth on that settings) while the other one go epic 60fps? Ok
Nastrahl said:
Oh I understand now. Thanks.
Sorry for the confusion.
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Yep, on the iphones it's just the digitizer that goes to 120Hz vs the regular 60Hz touch reading. This actually is awesome and really great in both UI and gaming, the touch latency is quite a lot lower + it tracks you better/faster/accurate.
I tried to make a video in indoor light in 4K and 1080, 60 FPS, is there a reason why 4K is much less noisy? I did not think that resolution decides how much noise is there.
4K provides you with almost 4 times the resolution of 1080P thus you will most certainly see a difference in clarity.
In running a quick test, at 1080P on the default camera app, it captures the video at a bit rate of 20.0Mbits per second.
In contrast, at 4K @ 30FPS, it captures the video at 41.9Mbits per second.
So the capture size versus the bit rate is certainly going to play a deciding factor.
But there are other ways to achieve an optimal capture rate @ 1080P.
If Xiaomi gave us the ability to utilize the High Efficiency Video Coding (H.265) and dictate our own bitrate, you'd see better capture rates @1080P.
My only other suggestion would be to seek out a third-party camera application (GCAM perhaps?) and test further.
A_H_E said:
4K provides you with almost 4 times the resolution of 1080P thus you will most certainly see a difference in clarity.
In running a quick test, at 1080P on the default camera app, it captures the video at a bit rate of 20.0Mbits per second.
In contrast, at 4K @ 30FPS, it captures the video at 41.9Mbits per second.
So the capture size versus the bit rate is certainly going to play a deciding factor.
But there are other ways to achieve an optimal capture rate @ 1080P.
If Xiaomi gave us the ability to utilize the High Efficiency Video Coding (H.265) and dictate our own bitrate, you'd see better capture rates @1080P.
My only other suggestion would be to seek out a third-party camera application (GCAM perhaps?) and test further.
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Is there an app that supports [email protected]? There is no point in recording videos [email protected] if there is 4K, but I like the idea of 60FPS.