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The following is some testing I did out of curiosity. My methodology is decidedly short of scientific, don't take any of it as the gospel truth/hard fact. Proving me wrong is encouraged.
It's also well into reasonably-TL;DR territory. There's a summary at the bottom.
A while back, I bought a Xiaomi power bank, and with it a reasonably powerful charger to fuel it.
During one particularly sleepness night, I'd settled down in bed with my phone - which was nearly dead after laying neglected on my desk for a couple of days - and set it charging whilst reading news and whatnot. A half hour later, I noticed that it had accumulated a surprising amount of charge, despite me using it.
Curiosity piqued, I bought a Charger Doctor sort of thing - which from here on out I'll refer to as a "monitor". It's one of these specifically (chosen based on review found here), to see how much amperage the phone actually pulls if given as much juice as it wants.
Unfortunately, these tests are a bit flawed - I have a pair of 24/28AWG micro-USB cables on order, but for the moment all I have is the input pigtail that's on the monitor (it also has a micro-USB port for input) and a short cable that came with my power bank to go between monitor and phone. I think that the input pigtail is limiting the maximum delivered amperage, because the amperage doesn't rise above the maximum observed even while in use on the charger (more on this later). I'll get another batch of samples when the new cables arrive.
Does not seem to be the case, or at least, the pigtail is reasonably capable. Switching to the micro-USB port actually lowered the current delivered.
It looks like short of soldering a new pigtail in (using thicker wires), there's nothing I can really do to eliminate this potential bottleneck. The pigtail is short enough anyway that it might not be adding enough resistance to make an appreciable difference.
The charger used was a Xiaomi MDY-30-EC (2A output max, Quick Charge 2.0-able apparently). In hindsight, I should have gotten an MDY-30-EH for future-proofing (2.5A/QC 3.0), but you know what they say about hindsight.
I drained the phone to 10% and set it charging, checking on it every now and then to see what it was doing. Then I proceeded to forget about it for a bit, so it kind of got away from me, but the power curve for 10%-33% proved to be fairly flat.
10% ~ 33% - ~1.58a
33% - 1.5a update: observed to still be holding 1.58a up to at least 43% in the second run
50% - 1.14a
57% - 1.05a
60% - 0.965a
79% - 0.865a
80% - 0.775a
83% - 0.645a
85% - 0.565a (0.50a)
87% - 0.505a (0.465a)
87% - 0.475a
95% - 0.165a (~0.115a)
100% - ~0.07a (intermittent)
Note that for much of the time above 60%, I had the screen on at the lock screen and auto-dimmed ("keep awake while charging" on via Development Options). It wasn't until 85% or so that I thought to check if the phone will pull additional needed power directly, instead of draining the battery. It does seem to, so at 85% and 87% I shut the screen off and recorded the draw.
As you can see, the phone will use up to 1.58 amps if given as much, and stays above 1A until 60% (where it suddenly drops to 0.96A). It's only when it reaches about 80% that the stock "fast"/travel charger becomes adequate, and 85% when a standard charger or USB connection can charge it with the screen off, and neither of those leave much if any excess capacity for the phone to consume if it's awake/being used.
Overall, it seems like quite a sane charging curve, edging into overly cautious. I'd guess this is because the battery is technically non-removable, and they didn't want people sending their phones in under warranty for the battery replacements that a more aggressive charging curve might have caused. Not that any of it mattered, what with them only ever offering a 750mA charger anyway.
Again, this test is flawed from the outset due to lack of a decent input cable. I seriously doubt it pulls much more for charging, but a proper cable might allow the phone to pull more for active use; at 10%, the current didn't go above 1.58A even while messing with it.
Fast-charging the battery might also cause longevity issues, because of potential heat build-up. Don't be an idiot like me and set it next to your pillow, only to find it under said pillow or blankets in the morning all toasty and only half charged because the safeties - yes, surprisingly we do have over-temperature safeties - kicked the charging circuit off. Also probably not the best idea to do gaming or anything else intensive on it while charging at full tilt, what with the processor's EMI shield being in direct contact with the battery and all.
Further on this: The heat build-up doesn't seem to be bad, with the phone sitting back-down on a wooden desk. In fact, the casing on the charger itself got much warmer than the back cover of the phone after half an hour of running at maximum input, to the point I started worrying about it instead.
I would tentatively say that "fast-charging" won't hurt the battery, at least, not by way of overheating it.
Some further power draw tests. Anything under .5a might be (probably is) inaccurate to some degree, and the monitor's minimum seems to be 0.07a.
Booting the phone - 0.44a (note that this isn't even enough to power the boot process what with the CPU saturation, so rebooting at <10% is probably a bad idea)
100%, screen on at launcher, brightness maximum - ~0.195a
100%, screen on at launcher, brightness minimum - below cutoff
Following is at 100%, brightness maximum:
GPS on (no satellites in view) - 0.30a
Bluetooth on (active scan) - ~0.42a
Bluetooth on (passive, unlinked) - 0.215a
Bluetooth on (actively broadcasting) - intermittent bumps to ~0.24a
CPU loaded (1.3ghz) (Passmark integer math) - ~0.78a
GPU loaded (Passmark 3d test - complex) - ~0.59a
GPU loaded (3dMark Ice Storm) - ~0.42a
3dMark physics test - ~0.68a
In summary:
We can use up to 2A chargers (possibly more if excess capacity is needed by the phone being under load while charging), despite only ever having been officially offered a 750mA charger at most. Thanks for that, Motorola.
The charging circuit supports bypassing the battery for direct power, if charger capacity beyond what's needed for topping the battery up is available
The screen uses a fairly tiny amount of power at minimum brightness
The screen uses a lot of power at max brightness
The GPS also uses a lot of power, roughly half that of the screen at full brightness if measurements are accurate
The GPU uses a large amount of power (note: real-world usage for the GPU outside of games is normally very bursty, but tends to get saturated a lot for UI acceleration in LP/MM)
The CPU uses a ton of power (note: real-world usage generally has the CPU napping at 300mhz where it barely consumes anything, and/or bouncing between 600mhz-1ghz)
More:
The charging circuitry seems to be able to utilize capacity above 1.585a, based on momentary spikes to 1.6a/1.64a. I'd guess my charger is a limiting factor here.
Our phone meets and exceeds Quick Charge 1.0's nebulous "30% in 30 minutes" marketing blurb/guideline.
New USB cables arrived today. Some additional things:
- Monoprice USB cables kind of suck. One can only pull slightly less than the short ribbon cable that came with my power bank, the other one pulls a good .15a less. I'll have to fiddle with them a bit to see if it's a connector pressure issue or what. Not really what I was hoping for from 24AWG cables.
- Charging starting at 5%, the phone tops out at about 1.585a, with occasional spikes (probably combined hits to CPU+GPU+disk) to 1.6-1.64a.
- The 1.585a number is only for screen on and working, actual charging seems to be capped at roundabouts 1.5a.
- The charger monitor actually has higher resistance through its micro-USB port than it does the crappy little pigtail...hooray for Made in China I guess. Maybe I'll make a new pigtail of this thick old cable end I have laying here...
- At maximum speed and the screen dimmed, with the phone sitting at ~26%, the lock screen reports 1 hour, 22 minutes until full. Not too shabby at all, if it's accurate.
For my next trick, I'll measure the time it takes to go from ~5% to 60%, since emergency charging is probably more relevant to people, and I'm a bit curious about how it compares to Qualcomm's super-special Quick Charge.
Last post, since I feel like I've gotten about as much as I can out of experimenting with my current equipment. I'll edit the first post to reflect all the information so far.
In 33 minutes, the phone recharged 38% of its capacity (coming to 43% total). This is actually into Quick Charge 1.0 territory (which seems to aim for 30% in 30 minutes using "up to" 2A), so that's pretty neat.
At this stage, unlike the earlier test, it was still pulling a steady 1.58a...with the screen off. *shrugs* I'm not sure what to make of it, maybe there's something I'm missing. It was markedly warmer in here this time, so if anything the charging circuit should have began ramping the current down sooner.
And yes, 1.58a again. I'm not sure what's going on, it just randomly decides it doesn't want to charge at full speed.
I'm wondering at this point if it's not my charger that's a limiting factor. It got fairly toasty earlier when the phone was charging balls-to-the-wall, and it's only a (supposedly) 2A adapter. I do need to buy another charger, as a household member needs a new one, maybe I'll look into getting a 3A unit...
Anyway,
In 60 minutes, it had recovered 66% (coming to 71%). I was going to go for timing 60% (which appears to be the Quick Charge 2.0 target), but instead set an actual hour timer because 1: we'd missed it anyway (60% in 30 minutes) and 2: I didn't want to wake the phone up every now and then to see what % it was at, nor did I want to leave the screen on and affect the result.
'course, the QC 1.0/2.0 targets don't mean much, because they don't specify the capacity of which you're trying to fill 30%/60%. Still, now you can brag to your friends that yea, you totally have a Quick Charge-capable phone...and it's almost true.
people do this, right? compare phone-charging e-peens? no? : \
So yea, hey. Small battery even in its day, but if you plug a big enough charger (or a capable power bank) into it, it juices up pretty fast.
This post didn't seem to get enough attention.
Very thorough and enlightening.
I think I have a 2amp charger laying around somewhere and I can plug in a fast-charge USB cable from my brother's Samsung G6 Edge.
I'll see if it speeds up charging at all.
Limiting the battery charge to a fraction (70%-80%) of it's full capacity is a well known way to greatly extend the battery's charge capacity lifetime. There are several (root) apps created to automate this, that stop the phone from charging once a selected charge level is reached. Battery Charge Limit is one (https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002), ACCA is another (https://github.com/MatteCarra/AccA/). So far I have not been successful getting either of those to work with the ROG2. I was wondering if anybody has had any success with those apps or any other way to limit the battery charge on the ROG2?
The Rog phone 2 has its own function that lets you automatically stop charging.
But keep in mind this function is only useful if you are planing to keep the phone connected to a charger 24/7 then it's useful. Otherwise it's worthless if you disconnect your phone once it's 100% charged.
Battery also needs to discharge and recharge to keep it's capacity and function going. If you don't do this it can wear the battery out even if you stop charging at 70-80%.
Jake.S said:
The Rog phone 2 has its own function that lets you automatically stop charging.
But keep in mind this function is only useful if you are planing to keep the phone connected to a charger 24/7 then it's useful. Otherwise it's worthless if you disconnect your phone once it's 100% charged.
Battery also needs to discharge and recharge to keep it's capacity and function going. If you don't do this it can wear the battery out even if you stop charging at 70-80%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of what you said is wrong.
The ASUS Power Master Battery Care feature slows and delays the charging but still charges to 100%. The feature is only useful if you have a regular charge schedule (which I don't, and DO mostly leave the phone on the charger) and even then, it's still charging to 100%. Repeatably charging a LiPo battery to 100% WILL decrease it's capacity significantly faster than if only partially charged. All phones already slow charging at high charge levels. There is no advantage to discharging the battery.
Read and learn: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
If you can reference any authority to support your position, I'd love to see it.
MyronAz said:
Most of what you said is wrong.
The ASUS Power Master Battery Care feature slows and delays the charging but still charges to 100%. The feature is only useful if you have a regular charge schedule (which I don't, and DO mostly leave the phone on the charger) and even then, it's still charging to 100%. Repeatably charging a LiPo battery to 100% WILL decrease it's capacity significantly faster than if only partially charged. All phones already slow charging at high charge levels. There is no advantage to discharging the battery.
Read and learn: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
If you can reference any authority to support your position, I'd love to see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you ever know that even authority can be wrong in facts as well? I can confirm that battery feels alot better with discharge and charge than what it is with 100% all time or 70-80%.
How I can confirm is that I have a Microsoft surface Pro 4 and when I kept it on charger at 100% for a day or two the wear level jumped from 0% to 3% but when I discharged it and recharged it after some time then tear level on battery went back to 0% and capacity was back to its full capacity again. So discharge and recharge does not always wear the battery out. It actually makes battery feel better too.
So please don't always believe what internet and what authority States. Since on internet there is alot of false facts and authority gives alot of nonsense facts alot of times too.
Is it really wise to basically degrade your battery by 20% out of the box just so you can have 95% in 2 years? If anything, heat is the greatest factor for degradation. If you're that worried, just use a 2 Amp charger.
dennis96411 said:
Is it really wise to basically degrade your battery by 20% out of the box just so you can have 95% in 2 years? If anything, heat is the greatest factor for degradation. If you're that worried, just use a 2 Amp charger.
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Click to collapse
Wise? Absolutely. Is it the perfect solution for everyone? No
dennis96411 said:
Is it really wise to basically degrade your battery by 20% out of the box just so you can have 95% in 2 years? If anything, heat is the greatest factor for degradation. If you're that worried, just use a 2 Amp charger.
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Click to collapse
Yes, heat is a factor, but keeping the battery at 100% will degrade the battery faster regardless. If you simply do not need the additional 20% than there is no advantage to charging to 100%. My usage scenario is that the phone is plugged in a lot of the time and I very rarely need the full battery capacity. I've had several phone batteries bloat up under this scenario (and not using any fast charging).
When batteries degrade they don't stop at 80%. They generally keep degrading fairly rapidly. And you don't just lose capacity, as the battery degrades the internal resistance increases, which results in throttling and/or crashing.
BTW on some phones, ACCA will stop charging the battery when it reaches the desired charge level and run the phone entirely from external power.
willhemmens said:
Wise? Absolutely. Is it the perfect solution for everyone? No
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Click to collapse
Agreed. If manufacturers still offered replaceable batteries in their flagships, this would be somewhat of a moot point. When dealing with a sealed battery that is expensive and time consuming to replace, it's wise to do everything reasonable to protect the overall lifespan of it.
As for keeping it charged at 100%, I did that once and killed a battery in about 6 months. Not doing that one again.
Guys, it's so nice you are debating over the battery charging metaphysics but it does not help us solve the issue: our rooted phone can not be charged in a smart way using magisk+acc, ACCA or Battery Charge Limit.
Any ideas?
I'm facing issue with my Rog 2, my phone is not charging fast
1. I'm using 18w charger come with the phone to charge
2. I have used Xiaomi 2i power bank with 18w output to charge my phone (still not working)
3. I restart the phone on charging it goes down 36% to 29%
4. On charging when i restart the phone it goes 8% to 13%
5. I'm facing this problem from the yesterday
6. Double plus sign on battery icon as well as fast charging text on home screen is also not showing while charging
What is the issue please help anyone
Submit a bug report to acca and maybe at least someone starts caring for the ROG Phone. The reason why it doesnt work is simply because ASUS does its own stupid thing while charging (thats what happens when 100 OEMs cook their own soup, a mess).
About the battery health:
A battery keeps its best health when its charged between 25-75%, is kept below 30°C and charged as slow as possible. Thats why its wise to stop charging at 80% with a slow charger, especially when you have a big battery anyway that lasts for a day with 80% charge.
Himan99 said:
I'm facing issue with my Rog 2, my phone is not charging fast
1. I'm using 18w charger come with the phone to charge
2. I have used Xiaomi 2i power bank with 18w output to charge my phone (still not working)
3. I restart the phone on charging it goes down 36% to 29%
4. On charging when i restart the phone it goes 8% to 13%
5. I'm facing this problem from the yesterday
6. Double plus sign on battery icon as well as fast charging text on home screen is also not showing while charging
What is the issue please help anyone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
currently facing the same issue and this is the first time in 2 week time. though on the lock screen, it shows fast charging.. but it isnt working smh
apollo3x said:
currently facing the same issue and this is the first time in 2 week time. though on the lock screen, it shows fast charging.. but it isnt working smh
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Click to collapse
Change the cable and try also try with different fast charging adapters or fast charging powerbank(mi power bank)
My problem solve by changing the cable
---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 AM ----------
MyronAz said:
Limiting the battery charge to a fraction (70%-80%) of it's full capacity is a well known way to greatly extend the battery's charge capacity lifetime. There are several (root) apps created to automate this, that stop the phone from charging once a selected charge level is reached. Battery Charge Limit is one (https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002), ACCA is another (https://github.com/MatteCarra/AccA/). So far I have not been successful getting either of those to work with the ROG2. I was wondering if anybody has had any success with those apps or any other way to limit the battery charge on the ROG2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without root any chances
Because i don't want to root my phone
Himan99 said:
Without root any chances
Because i don't want to root my phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no programmatic way to internally control the charging process without root, however there are some (not as good) alternatives.
First there is an app Accubattery that will give you a notification when the battery reaches a given level, you have to then disconnect the charger manually.
A second way to do this would be to use a smart plug and control it with Tasker. Don't know if anyone has done this but it should be possible.
Another possibility that is not vailable yet would be a kickstarter project called BatteryPal. This is a charging cable that had a bluetooth interface built in to it that would control charging using an app on the phone.They arr saying it will be available March 2020, but who knows.
I'm facing the same situation here. I'm next to a charger most of the time, so I like to use slow charging and not going above 80%. I was used to have battery charge limit installed in all my devices, but found this is not working with the rog phone.
My rog Phone 2 global edition over heats while charging
has anyone found a way even with root? I've tried ACC and some other app but they all done work.
I've also just tried ACC and Battery Charge Limit, but neither worked. It looks like there is something that keeps overwriting the charge control file all the time and allows the battery to charge anyway. Battery Care was disabled while doing this.
I am rooted, so I am able to test any potential solution.
Someone posted on r/rogphone2 a solution for this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ROGphone2/comments/ev0put/hows_this_it_never_reaches_100/
I've just tested it and it works for me.
Does anyone know of a legit charging adapter that isnt fastcharge and doesnt damage the phone or gets damaged itself after a while? I want to charge my phone without fastcharge but cant find a good charger
My old htc m8 charger got damaged after just a few times of using! Seems like the phone drained it dry
Is there any way to tell whether the Xperia 1ii is currently fast charging or slow charging?
Sometimes when I plug my USB-C cable into my Samsung devices, it'll says "Fast Charging" or "Charging". If it just says "Charging", i remove the plug and plug it back in and it often says "Fast Charging" (not sure if there's dust or a loose contact between the port and cable", but nevertheless, it indicates that the device is drawing a higher current and is fast charging).
Thanks
I using super fast charger from samsung S20 into sony,but i never seeing " Fast charging" notif in sony
No it doesn't differentiate.
But it uses usb PD to fast charge not quick charger.
So I have Xperia 1 and when I connect a fast charger to it and it shows "charging" that means its fast charging and there is no way to tell? Because my S10 says it right on lockscreen, My oneplus 7 did with doublebolt on battery for dash charging even my xiaomi mi8 did say charging rapidly on lockscreen
Actually, Sony Xperia devices use the Qnovo adaptative charging to charge as fast as possible BUT not too fast in order to preserve the battery health. This is why the charge can be slower than other brands which don't care about the battery lifetime...
You can tell by how much charge % is indicated per minute what mode it's in.
On a 10+ it's double the rate of snail mode in roughly the 30-80% range.
On the 10+ fast charge will not engage if the battery temp is somewhere below 60F (not sure of the exact temp). Other makes are probably similar.
Fast charging does no harm; high cell voltage (80+%) and high temperature are what degrades them.
Low temperature charging can permanently degrade them.
Battery should be above 72F before charging to prevent Li plating in the cell.
Never charge a cell if it's near or below 32F.
blackhawk said:
You can tell by how much charge % is indicated per minute what mode it's in.
On a 10+ it's double the rate of snail mode in roughly the 30-80% range.
On the 10+ fast charge will not engage if the battery temp is somewhere below 60F (not sure of the exact temp). Other makes are probably similar.
Fast charging does no harm; high cell voltage (80+%) and high temperature are what degrades them.
Low temperature charging can permanently degrade them.
Battery should be above 72F before charging to prevent Li plating in the cell.
Never charge a cell if it's near or below 32F.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Qnovo adapts the charging speed as a function of the battery temperature. It's a patented technology.
nreuge said:
Qnovo adapts the charging speed as a function of the battery temperature. It's a patented technology.
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Click to collapse
Your point? My point is you can readily tell which charging mode it's in by observing the charge indicator/time interval.
Assuming the ambient room temperature isn't extreme.
blackhawk said:
Your point? My point is you can readily tell which charging mode it's in by observing the charge indicator/time interval.
Assuming the ambient room temperature isn't extreme.
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Click to collapse
It's not my point, it's well known that Sony Xperia uses the Qnovo technology. You can google it, it's documented...
nreuge said:
It's not my point, it's well known that Sony Xperia uses the Qnovo technology. You can google it, it's documented...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And Samsung uses Qualcomm.
Niether lets you to set a charge level limit so both are equally hard on the battery in one of the most important charge parameters.
Does Qnovo chipset revert to slow charging if set to fast charge if temp is too cold?
With Android 11, you can select 80 or 90 % maximum charge. I set it at 80, let's see tomorrow morning
Sho-Bud said:
With Android 11, you can select 80 or 90 % maximum charge. I set it at 80, let's see tomorrow morning
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's pretty cool... if it works.
About time.
I aim for 64-70% most times though. An 80% lockout is certainly better than a 100% plate vaporizing charge.
Charging to 80% worked. Now I'll have to see if I get through 1 day at a single charge
Sho-Bud said:
Charging to 80% worked. Now I'll have to see if I get through 1 day at a single charge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I run it down into the 40's then give it a 20% charge to bring back into the 60's.
Takes 10 minutes. That gives me 2-3 hrs SOT.
I simply charge when taking a break.
Theoretically even though it uses one full charge cycle worth of current throughout the day the actual damage to the cell is equivalent to 20% of a charge cycle.
I'm currently on Android 11, june patch. Just got the phone this week and noticed something very frustrating. I can generally "fast charging" as i only have a 15w charger for now. But sometimes if I unplug it and plug it back in, it just says "cable charging" i have other chargers and it's the same.. sometimes it says fast charging, but i downloaded Ampere and can see it only at 300mah and only goes up very slowly.. 1% every 4mins..
Anyone else with these issues?
Just try using the official charger and cable because everything else would be way dangerous. The same thing you have mentioned is happening to me as well. Try changing the way cable is plugged in. Turn it upside down.
Im using the 25w charger, Samsung original and neve chared with the stock 15w charger. It shows super fast charging, no problems here.
kevinwu128 said:
I'm currently on Android 11, june patch. Just got the phone this week and noticed something very frustrating. I can generally "fast charging" as i only have a 15w charger for now. But sometimes if I unplug it and plug it back in, it just says "cable charging" i have other chargers and it's the same.. sometimes it says fast charging, but i downloaded Ampere and can see it only at 300mah and only goes up very slowly.. 1% every 4mins..
Anyone else with these issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah def charge with Samsung OEM charger
Meh, fast charging only will engage with 25 watt brick that is compatible.
$15 for a Samsung 25wbrick/cable at Walmart online, what's not to like?
I have 2 sets, the first one is over 1.5 years old and still runs A-OK.
jeeeesze...
Yeah i plan to get the 25w charger, just waiting on delivery. I'm just trying to reduce buying so many as i have so many spares from old phone that charge in just over an hour SOMETIMES And over 3 hour at other times! Frustration is even if i unplug and plug it back it, it never seems to go to fast charging unless i let it discharge a little. Winter here and it's cold so temperature of battery has been fine.
kevinwu128 said:
Yeah i plan to get the 25w charger, just waiting on delivery. I'm just trying to reduce buying so many as i have so many spares from old phone that charge in just over an hour SOMETIMES And over 3 hour at other times! Frustration is even if i unplug and plug it back it, it never seems to go to fast charging unless i let it discharge a little. Winter here and it's cold so temperature of battery has been fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Temperature matters. Charging is an electrochemical reaction. Too low a temperature and fast charging will not engage. Charging below 72-82F can cause Li plating to form which will permanently degrade the cell.
Never attempt to charge a Li at 40F or less!
Best battery start temperature is 85-95F
Li's fast charge best in the 90's.
Below 60F fast charging may not engage and it will slow charge for the remaining cycle.
Fast charging will disengage around 80% and at 90% will slow even more. This is to protect the battery.
If the battery temp get above about 101F fast charging will disengage. At around 104F it will stop charging all together.
Cool battery as it approaches 99F with a fan and/or damp microfiber cloth.
At ambient temperatures above 90F cooling will likely be needed for fast charging.
blackhawk said:
Temperature matters. Charging is an electrochemical reaction. Too low a temperature and fast charging will not engage. Charging below 72-82F can cause Li plating to form which will permanently degrade the cell.
Never attempt to charge a Li at 40F or less!
Best battery start temperature is 85-95F
Li's fast charge best in the 90's.
Below 60F fast charging may not engage and it will slow charge for the remaining cycle.
Fast charging will disengage around 80% and at 90% will slow even more. This is to protect the battery.
If the battery temp get above about 101F fast charging will disengage. At around 104F it will stop charging all together.
Cool battery as it approaches 99F with a fan and/or damp microfiber cloth.
At ambient temperatures above 90F cooling will likely be needed for fast charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really work with Fareinheit, but after looking, battery is reporting it as around 29degrees when charging. It does seem to be more consistent the last 2 days, i wonder if it's because the OS was still trying to learn my usage. It still happens, i just need to unplug and plug it back in when it says slow/cable charging. But haven't tested it too much, so still unsure.
I am still waiting on charger, i'll keep this forum updated in case anyone else is interested.
kevinwu128 said:
I don't really work with Fareinheit, but after looking, battery is reporting it as around 29degrees when charging. It does seem to be more consistent the last 2 days, i wonder if it's because the OS was still trying to learn my usage. It still happens, i just need to unplug and plug it back in when it says slow/cable charging. But haven't tested it too much, so still unsure.
I am still waiting on charger, i'll keep this forum updated in case anyone else is interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Meh you do the conversion. For actual living the Celsius system is awkward at best.
blackhawk said:
Meh you do the conversion. For actual living the Celsius system is awkward at best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, i did. Temperature was fine.
I received my charger after i typed up message. I used it with super fast charging getting 3000mA from ampere app. Worked great unplugging and plugging it back in.
Tested using it on my s10 charger, and it showed up as fast charging, unplug, plugged it back in, cable charging only.
Went back to the 25w charger. It says super fast charging but hovers aroud 1000mA.
Can't get it to use high speed. Temperature at 28.5 degrees.
The only way for me, let it drain 10% and put it in the charger again to get 3000mA charging speed. The message that says "super fast charging" means nothing to be honest.
kevinwu128 said:
Lol, i did. Temperature was fine.
I received my charger after i typed up message. I used it with super fast charging getting 3000mA from ampere app. Worked great unplugging and plugging it back in.
Tested using it on my s10 charger, and it showed up as fast charging, unplug, plugged it back in, cable charging only.
Went back to the 25w charger. It says super fast charging but hovers aroud 1000mA.
Can't get it to use high speed. Temperature at 28.5 degrees.
The only way for me, let it drain 10% and put it in the charger again to get 3000mA charging speed. The message that says "super fast charging" means nothing to be honest.
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Click to collapse
In what battery % range are you charging? It should draw closer to 4000-5000 ma at its peak fast charge rate with a 25w brick.
About 2%@minute when fast charging at peak rate.
Erratic fast charging can indicate a battery failure.
Any swelling is a failure. Replace immediately it this happens.
Other signs are deminished battery capacity.
Try clearing system cache.
Toggle the fast charging switch on/off 3 times.
Discharge until phone shuts down then charge to 100%. Some say to do this 3 times but one cycle worked for me to recalibrate the battery gauge.
Fast charging is a little b*tch when it goes south but always suspect a battery failure if this happens. A swollen battery can damage and destroy the phone.
Battery failures can happen at any time but are more likely to happen with degraded Li's.
blackhawk said:
In what battery % range are you charging? It should draw closer to 4000-5000 ma at its peak fast charge rate with a 25w brick.
About 2%@minute when fast charging at peak rate.
Erratic fast charging can indicate a battery failure.
Any swelling is a failure. Replace immediately it this happens.
Other signs are deminished battery capacity.
Try clearing system cache.
Toggle the fast charging switch on/off 3 times.
Discharge until phone shuts down then charge to 100%. Some say to do this 3 times but one cycle worked for me to recalibrate the battery gauge.
Fast charging is a little b*tch when it goes south but always suspect a battery failure if this happens. A swollen battery can damage and destroy the phone.
Battery failures can happen at any time but are more likely to happen with degraded Li's.
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Thanks for the response, with the testing i've done, it's been 70% to 100% only.
i've been needing my phone for work, so i haven't had a chance to discharge it. Will try it this weekend.
Do you charge it back to 100% after a complete discharge with the phone Off or On?
kevinwu128 said:
Thanks for the response, with the testing i've done, it's been 70% to 100% only.
i've been needing my phone for work, so i haven't had a chance to discharge it. Will try it this weekend.
Do you charge it back to 100% after a complete discharge with the phone Off or On?
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At 70-100% you'll see much slower charging.
Li's prefer frequent midrange power cycling. It can extend their life by hundreds of full charge cycles. Example 40-70%
I rarely charge to 90-100% usually to 65-82%
I almost discharge below 30%, 40% or so being typical. Below 20% there's not a lot of usable energy. It also stresses the battery more when charging from a deep discharge state.
If you insist on charging to 100% at night at least slow charge it to reduce battery strain.
blackhawk said:
At 70-100% you'll see much slower charging.
Li's prefer frequent midrange power cycling. It can extend their life by hundreds of full charge cycles. Example 40-70%
I rarely charge to 90-100% usually to 65-82%
I almost discharge below 30%, 40% or so being typical. Below 20% there's not a lot of usable energy. It also stresses the battery more when charging from a deep discharge state.
If you insist on charging to 100% at night at least slow charge it to reduce battery strain.
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i drained it to 0% until it turned off.
After turning back on, i plugged in the 25w charger and it started charging at 4000mA and max 4750 for only a few seconds for the first 10% and after that, it went down and stayed around 3000-3500mA. happy for that for now. So thanks for your input.
Basically, to get fast charging/super fast charging, don't unplug and plug in a few times unless you have to as it will revert to cable charging, and then you'll need to let it drain a little bit (i found, around 10mins ) before plugging it in again to get the fast speeds.
kevinwu128 said:
i drained it to 0% until it turned off.
After turning back on, i plugged in the 25w charger and it started charging at 4000mA and max 4750 for only a few seconds for the first 10% and after that, it went down and stayed around 3000-3500mA. happy for that for now. So thanks for your input.
Basically, to get fast charging/super fast charging, don't unplug and plug in a few times unless you have to as it will revert to cable charging, and then you'll need to let it drain a little bit (i found, around 10mins ) before plugging it in again to get the fast speeds.
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Click to collapse
Having the display on skews the charge curve, don't. It will charge slowly or not all if the display is on.
It you turn the display with it the battery page already open you have one or two seconds to see the display off mAh charging rate.
You can easily tell it's fast charging by watching how fast the battery percentage changes with the screen off.
1%@minute or less slow charging
2%@minute fast charging is active
Fast charging will ramp down depending on inputs like temperature and charge percentage the power controller recieves.
If it starts or goes under/over temperature fast charging will disengage for that charge cycle.
It also will ramp up/down sometimes throughout the below 80% range. This is normal.
Being in the optimum battery temperature range at the start and throughout the charge cycle is important but don't go too nuts. Higher is better than lower. Once the battery is below 70°F it will not fast charge as well (or at all) and/or can detrimental to the battery ie Li plating. There maybe other parameters the controller uses as well... not sure.
Oddly the Samsung 25w bricks are very tolerant of low input voltage. They will charge with as little as 60 VAC!
Like a few have said, fast charging like that will degrade your battery faster due to high temps, but the way you use it has a big impact on that. If you fast charge at those speeds to 100% take it off and use it constant until dead, and put it back on the charger then you will deff degrade it faster. Lithium cells need to rest between charge and discharge to let the the temperature settle. If not it's taking a hugh work load wearing down the internal resistance which drops the cells Mah rating.
Yeah, Im guilty of this too many times lol
Manufacturers know this as well but they know people want fast charging and largest battery capacity possible, they could at least make an option to lower the voltage down from 4.20v and a charger allowing us to switch between a few milliamp ratings..
BandSkipper said:
Like a few have said, fast charging like that will degrade your battery faster due to high temps, but the way you use it has a big impact on that. If you fast charge at those speeds to 100% take it off and use it constant until dead, and put it back on the charger then you will deff degrade it faster. Lithium cells need to rest between charge and discharge to let the the temperature settle. If not it's taking a hugh work load wearing down the internal resistance which drops the cells Mah rating.
Yeah, Im guilty of this too many times lol
Manufacturers know this as well but they know people want fast charging and largest battery capacity possible, they could at least make an option to lower the voltage down from 4.20v and a charger allowing us to switch between a few milliamp ratings..
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You're correct it's best to allow some rest after charging and to not fast charge.
In practice this goes out the window
I do try to keep the voltage down as well as the temperature below 100F. Ambient temperatures here are frequently in the 90's
If I get a year out of this new battery I'm good with that.
However once it's down to 80% of its original capacity it gets replaced to avoid a failure. That's what happened to the original battery and I was lucky it didn't damage the display.
Below is my typical usage and the 10+'s fast charging patterns. The last charge ended with a near ideal battery charging temp of 94F. It fast charged nearly the whole time.
blackhawk said:
You're correct it's best to allow some rest after charging and to not fast charge.
In practice this goes out the window
I do try to keep the voltage down as well as the temperature below 100F. Ambient temperatures here are frequently in the 90's
If I get a year out of this new battery I'm good with that.
However once it's down to 80% of its original capacity it gets replaced to avoid a failure. That's what happened to the original battery and I was lucky it didn't damage the display.
Below is my typical usage and the 10+'s fast charging patterns. The last charge ended with a near ideal battery charging temp of 94F. It fast charged nearly the whole time.
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Click to collapse
wow that's intense! Battery nerd (in a good way!) I downloaded the app and i've deleted it, i'll just leave it the way i have it for now haha
blackhawk said:
You're correct it's best to allow some rest after charging and to not fast charge.
In practice this goes out the window
I do try to keep the voltage down as well as the temperature below 100F. Ambient temperatures here are frequently in the 90's
If I get a year out of this new battery I'm good with that.
However once it's down to 80% of its original capacity it gets replaced to avoid a failure. That's what happened to the original battery and I was lucky it didn't damage the display.
Below is my typical usage and the 10+'s fast charging patterns. The last charge ended with a near ideal battery charging temp of 94F. It fast charged nearly the whole time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jeez, had that app for a long time until about a year ago... I use AccA on a Rooted Pixel but id say I started using it a bit late.. You know none of this would be an issue if they still used replaceable damn batteries!! Lol My old Bar & Flip phones before color screens lasted days to over a week, and still had spare battery near by... My Startac even had a Solar panel battery
BandSkipper said:
Jeez, had that app for a long time until about a year ago... I use AccA on a Rooted Pixel but id say I started using it a bit late.. You know none of this would be an issue if they still used replaceable damn batteries!! Lol My old Bar & Flip phones before color screens lasted days to over a week, and still had spare battery near by... My Startac even had a Solar panel battery
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Click to collapse
Yeah I have a flip top and S4, takes about 30 seconds to change the batteries. Most of the newer Samsung's aren't that bad to change out the battery once you know a few tricks. Some phones with multiple batteries are bloody nightmares though.
Solar panel? That's pretty funny
One way to limit phone usage.
How long it is supposed to take to fully charge it with 25W charger?
Are the first times you charge it slower to reach full charge?
The time will vary. Battery capacity, discharge state at start of charge and the battery temperature throughout the charge cycle.
Charging from 0-100% stresses the battery (especially with fast charging) and shouldn't be commonly practiced.
Battery start charge temperature should be at least 72F, 82F is ideal. Cool it if it exceeds 99F while charging. Charging is a electrochemical reaction and some heat is needed to avoid Li plating.
Never attempt to charge an Li near freezing temperatures
Li's thrive on frequent partial charge cycling. 40-80% is a good range.
Avoid going below 20% or over 90% except occasionally for best lifespan.
High temperatures and high cell voltage are Li's biggest lifespan risks. Avoid running the phone when the battery is hot (>102F) or provide cooling. Keep it out of direct sunlight especially when charging.
Store Li's in a cool, dry place with a 50-70%charge, not 100%!
GSMArena:
" We tested the Galaxy A33 with the said 25W USB-C Samsung charger, and it replenished 50% of the battery in half an hour.
A full charge took 1 hour and 15 minutes, and in fact, that was the cited expected time to full charge by the software as well. "
Fast charging will yield roughly 2%@minute from 0-80% if battery doesn't go into over temperature ramp down. Time it to get the nominal rate for that device ie how many seconds per 1% when fast charging in the 40-70% range, probably 30-40 seconds per minute when new. As it's capacity from degradation drops so will this rate.
Charge rate will ramp down at around 80%, then again at about 90% to protect the battery.
Temperature is the biggest variable.
If the battery is below about 60F fast charging will not engage for that charge cycle in order to protect the battery.
Fast charging rate not clear cut as the power controller optimizes charge rate per conditions and will reduce charge rate if they're not in the optimum range.
Constant erratic fast charging cycles with a known good brick/cable indicates a battery failure.
Any battery swelling is a failure, stop charge and replace it asap. It can damage or destroy the phone
Replace the battery when it reaches 80% of its initial capacity, the end of its useful service life. At that point it's considered degraded, degraded Li's are far more likely to fail. An Li can fail at any time... it can happen fast. Cataclysmic failures however are rare.
My new A33 came a couple of days ago with about 30% charge. I used it a bit lightly with the intention of depleting it(so I can have it full when I root it), I haven't yet installed the SIM, and when it was about 15% I got tired so I downloaded an app "Generic Battery Drainer" to deplet it quicker until it reached 0% and turned off, then I charged it to 100% with the charger I purchased which came today(an OEM one)
I didn't know that you should never deplete the battery to 0% and also did not know that the battery should not be charged to 100%
I obviously also didn't know the dangers of high temperatures, because the drainer app took the cell phone to about 104ºF
What prompted me to post my question actually was that from 0% to 100% charge it took about 3 hours. So I'm wondering if maybe I should check if the OEM 25W charger that I got does not charge fast as advertised?
bogavante said:
My new A33 came a couple of days ago with about 30% charge. I used it a bit lightly with the intention of depleting it(so I can have it full when I root it), I haven't yet installed the SIM, and when it was about 15% I got tired so I downloaded an app "Generic Battery Drainer" to deplet it quicker until it reached 0% and turned off, then I charged it to 100% with the charger I purchased which came today(an OEM one)
I didn't know that you should never deplete the battery to 0% and also did not know that the battery should not be charged to 100%
I obviously also didn't know the dangers of high temperatures, because the drainer app took the cell phone to about 104ºF
What prompted me to post my question actually was that from 0% to 100% charge it took about 3 hours. So I'm wondering if maybe I should check if the OEM 25W charger that I got does not charge fast as advertised?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should fully charge a new battery before using. Are you using the cable that came with the brick? Is the wall socket wired correctly?
3 hours is far too long for fast charging.
Observe while charging to see if it's fast charging be % per minute.
The display must be off or it will skew the charge rate badly. Start and maintain it in temperature parameters described when charging.
If it drops out of fast charging because of temperature it will likely not reengage unless the cycle is manually started again ie unplug/ plug back in. Don't try to fast charge a hot (>98F) battery, it won't work. Cool the battery down and use cooling while charging. A damp microfiber cloth and/or fan work well.
Briefly turning on the display will not break the fast charging, it will resume once you turn off the display. Low current drain apps like Poweramp/bt can be used while fast charging but not high current drain ones.
blackhawk said:
Are you using the cable that came with the brick? Is the wall socket wired correctly?
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I used the cable that came with the OEM charger that I purchased, seems to be identical kind of cable as the one that came with the phone.
bogavante said:
I used the cable that came with the OEM charger that I purchased, seems to be identical kind of cable as the one that came with the phone.
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Click to collapse
Should be good to go.
When you get to 40%, try again... it's probably ok.
Try using a wall socket on a different breaker. Line voltage fluctuations won't effect this brick however neutral/ground fault might. Avoid using on a circuit with large induction motors on it ie microwave ovens, friges and A/C