The S9 recently booted an android aosp rom (8.0) thanks to project treble ! Check this article : https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-galaxy-s9-aosp-android-oreo-project-treble/
Will be interesting to see how much it is used.
I hope we get it too on older flagships ( S8, S7..etc )
I was the first one that booted it.
It was an adventure to get it to work. Lol.
iamnotkurtcobain said:
I was the first one that booted it.
It was an adventure to get it to work. Lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the news and from my testing I didn't get what was hard to do ?
Literally it's loading TWRP and flashing that system.img ?
Not sure why you guys had to go through all that pain :/
Paradoxxx said:
From the news and from my testing I didn't get what was hard to do ?
Literally it's loading TWRP and flashing that system.img ?
Not sure why you guys had to go through all that pain :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flashing the system.img didn't work at the beginning...
Paradoxxx said:
From the news and from my testing I didn't get what was hard to do ?
Literally it's loading TWRP and flashing that system.img ?
Not sure why you guys had to go through all that pain :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about 8.1 ?
iamnotkurtcobain said:
I was the first one that booted it.
It was an adventure to get it to work. Lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh really ? Great work. How is progress going ?
I've read that 8.1 was successfully booted on s9, that's great. Hope we can enjoy a fully stable and fast aosp even with a poor camera
I need a new phone that can run LOS, and the S9 is looking mighty fine. How hard is it to get it running? Thanks in advance.
NadavCE said:
I need a new phone that can run LOS, and the S9 is looking mighty fine. How hard is it to get it running? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not hard.
-flash TWRP (trips Knox)
-flash AOSP Rom
-reboot
iamnotkurtcobain said:
Not hard.
-flash TWRP (trips Knox)
-flash AOSP Rom
-reboot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amazing, thanks! Do you happen to know where can I find the LOS Treble image?
iamnotkurtcobain said:
Not hard.
-flash TWRP (trips Knox)
-flash AOSP Rom
-reboot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you using it without auto brightness ?
It was an adventure to get it to work. Lol.
NadavCE said:
Amazing, thanks! Do you happen to know where can I find the LOS Treble image?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the Project Treble forum.
I assume once it's stable and bug-fixed, and any S9/+ specific problems are fixed, it'll be posted here.
They still have a few things to do ... but compared with the usual challenges, it appears to be a walk in the park.
mudnightoil said:
In the Project Treble forum.
I assume once it's stable and bug-fixed, and any S9/+ specific problems are fixed, it'll be posted here.
They still have a few things to do ... but compared with the usual challenges, it appears to be a walk in the park.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds great, and it'll certainly be easier than the clusterf**k that is the S8...
Related
EFIDroid coming to Redmi 2 Prime, very soon.
Here's some pre-reading : XDA Spotlight
Original thread
Are you guyz ready?
iamsubhranil said:
EFIDroid coming to Redmi 2 Prime, very soon.
Here's some pre-reading : XDA Spotlight
Original thread
Are you guyz ready?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yo! Ready here
iamsubhranil said:
EFIDroid coming to Redmi 2 Prime, very soon.
Here's some pre-reading : XDA Spotlight
Original thread
Are you guyz ready?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UEFI bootloader on redmi 2? what a great time to live!
awesome, can't wait for it
So, GRUB for Redmi 2? Awesome, you gotta love this device!
wow ＼(◎o◎)／
Can anyone please explain this post ? I'm a noob so don't getting it. ?
deeps7515 said:
Can anyone please explain this post ? I'm a noob so don't getting it. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too
iamsubhranil said:
EFIDroid coming to Redmi 2 Prime, very soon.
Here's some pre-reading : XDA Spotlight
Original thread
Are you guyz ready?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, ready
deeps7515 said:
Can anyone please explain this post ? I'm a noob so don't getting it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
preetnoobie said:
Me too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simply speaking ,it is a bootloader replacement(or a modified bootloader) by which u can install multiple ROMs and recoveries at same time.U can run a miui ROM,aosp rom,Ubuntu Linux and u don't need any patched kernel or a multirom recovery or multirom supported rom .And no need of confirmation if a ROM can be booted as secondary or primary ROM as there is no terms like that.
@deeps7515 @preetnoobie
Bootloader is the first thing that get loaded in the memory after the device starts. Once the bootloader gets loaded in the memory, it handles OS initialization, and the OS initiates only after that point.
The goal of this project is to generify the process of bootloading, so that any ROM or any kernel can be loaded into memory without any kind of modification at all, through some universal architechture. The technical details are vast enough and quite frankly, even I don't understand many of that.
TL;DR
It will make multibooting buttery smooth in our devices.
if i am not wrong .. now we can also install complete armhf based linux distros??
iamsubhranil said:
@deeps7515 @preetnoobie
Bootloader is the first thing that get loaded in the memory after the device starts. Once the bootloader gets loaded in the memory, it handles OS initialization, and the OS initiates only after that point.
The goal of this project is to generify the process of bootloading, so that any ROM or any kernel can be loaded into memory without any kind of modification at all, through some universal architechture. The technical details are vast enough and quite frankly, even I don't understand many of that.
TL;DR
It will make multibooting buttery smooth in our devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for help. I got that idea. Eagerly waiting for it.
raymond_bqg said:
Simply speaking ,it is a bootloader replacement(or a modified bootloader) by which u can install multiple ROMs and recoveries at same time.U can run a miui ROM,aosp rom,Ubuntu Linux and u don't need any patched kernel or a multirom recovery or multirom supported rom .And no need of confirmation if a ROM can be booted as secondary or primary ROM as there is no terms like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow !!
iamsubhranil said:
EFIDroid coming to Redmi 2 Prime, very soon.
Here's some pre-reading : XDA Spotlight
Original thread
Are you guyz ready?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only prime?
DarkXonline said:
Only prime?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All variant....I think.... bcz all have snapdragon.
This would mean Sailfish can boot without modifications and possibly without breaking primary ROM. Exciting stuff
abhishek 9650 said:
if i am not wrong .. now we can also install complete armhf based linux distros??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup you got the idea quite well.
taalojarvi said:
This would mean Sailfish can boot without modifications and possibly without breaking primary ROM. Exciting stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well sadly, sailfish still requires some work to be done because of the hardcoded system.mount, and I directly jump into it after I publish the first beta. Right now, I'm experiencing some weird bug that apparantly noone has faced before, and that's why the build is taking longer than expected.
Stay tuned.
Excited.. :laugh:
Hello all , I have decided to build different Roms for our device. The main goal is to show mainly upcoming or WIP roms in order to attract these devs to build for our device. If you want any of these roms to be official or 100% maintained I will be glad to do this , I have a really fast build machine (builds in less than 1:30 hours).
Cepheus Builds
Sources Used:
Kernel
Device and Common Tree
Vendor Tree
Thank you! Gonna try when I have some time.
woow i try this. downloading...
oski_58 said:
woow i try this. downloading...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Report back, you brave soul
fingerprint does not work. the screen brightness is really very unstable. The extra features are really nice. but for now it's like an unstable version. I will not opt for daily use. Thank you for this work. I hope you can do better.
Very nice, will try this shortly, thanks to Op, cheers
Tried it.... Brightness is really broken.... Need a fix.... And sound cracks....
Will get better...
nice to see a new dev/builder..
Not really own switching and installing gsi yet so i wait to know how to, and then i want to try.
Is Mi9 an A/B Device BTW. So need to use another IMG to boot?
marcel112 said:
nice to see a new dev/builder..
Not really own switching and installing gsi yet so i wait to know how to, and then i want to try.
Is Mi9 an A/B Device BTW. So need to use another IMG to boot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mi9 Is not A/B. It's just A.
SlugUnchained said:
Mi9 Is not A/B. It's just A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although this device is A-only, you have to choose GSI for A/B devices because this device is "system-as-root".
-phh
More info here;
https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/wiki/Xiaomi-Mi-9
New build within 5 hours with PE device tree updated thanks to markakash.
ZoiraP said:
New build within 5 hours with PE device tree updated thanks to markakash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will you add FP?
gogoffm said:
Will you add FP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah , it will work surely and audio too.
Nice
you are rock man i am happy thnk you !!
What is LOTUS OS?
oski_58 said:
you are rock man i am happy thnk you !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
btw im a girl , same as randomblame , we are few but yeah we exist
MacLaughlin said:
What is LOTUS OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically it is Pixel Experience with modifications menu in settings , like AOSIP.
ZoiraP said:
Basically it is Pixel Experience with modifications menu in settings , like AOSIP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh okay thanks. Hadn't heard about that before.
ZoiraP said:
btw im a girl , same as randomblame , we are few but yeah we exist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ohh, sorry I didn't know that, so thank you ma'am. you are rock!!!
Your warranty is now void blah blah blah I'm not responsible for your toaster going rogue on you.
LAST AOSiP10 BETA BUILD?? SEE THIS POST - https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=80702799&postcount=86
EOL = THIS ROM IS NOW FINITO! AICP15 COMING SOON!
---
Bugs? You tell me. With logs. Pretty stable tho and most stuff working.
Q is still very early on in its development. I find it works decently enough for a daily driver.
Trees used are on my github. Kernel tree so mods don't delete the thread: [url]https://github.com/celtare21/kernel_essential_msm8998-1[/URL]
NOTE: This thread is maintained by me. The ROM is built by KuranKaname using his own sources (which you can see above).
Thank you so much for your work
Just one question: is the trusted face (face unlock) working? Thank you very much, I'll test it out and I'll let you know if are there any bugs ?
...
SteLomby said:
Just one question: is the trusted face (face unlock) working? Thank you very much, I'll test it out and I'll let you know if are there any bugs ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! Myself I know that trusted face is from the gapps selection, which right now it's pretty minimal so it's not present. Haven't tried installing P one or Pixel dump one tho
First update is live, edited link in thread
Does this support f2fs like your other builds ?
Jz5678910 said:
Does this support f2fs like your other builds ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, f2fs is supported.
Update 2 is live. Link and changelog updated
KuranKaname said:
Thanks! Myself I know that trusted face is from the gapps selection, which right now it's pretty minimal so it's not present. Haven't tried installing P one or Pixel dump one tho
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried flashing pie open gapps but they won't install as it detects the Android version as incompatible.
I also found this one: cyanogenmods.org/downloads/bitgapps-for-android-10-download
But when I flash it from twrp, the ROM won't boot anymore.
Can you fix it plz?
Man, i love you!
Now it's time to switch to Android 10!
Edit: It looks like ROM download link is not working, can you fix please?
dark.wizard said:
Man, i love you!
Now it's time to switch to Android 10!
Edit: It looks like ROM download link is not working, can you fix please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad forgot up update. Link and update up
SteLomby said:
I've tried flashing pie open gapps but they won't install as it detects the Android version as incompatible.
I also found this one: cyanogenmods.org/downloads/bitgapps-for-android-10-download
But when I flash it from twrp, the ROM won't boot anymore.
Can you fix it plz?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gapps will come with time, the packages are still alpha/beta
Lineage has too few customization options. I hope other roms will appear earlier. Do you know if it will appear within a month?
冰糖葫芦娃 said:
Lineage has too few customization options. I hope other roms will appear earlier. Do you know if it will appear within a month?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PIxel Experience 10 will come with gapps soon
How do I install an update? I'm in update 2
I like cake
HueyT said:
PIxel Experience 10 will come with gapps soon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PIxel Experience also has a few custom options, expect more rom
---From Google Translation---
giovann134 said:
How do I install an update? I'm in update 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash ROM
Flash twrp
Reboot twrp
Flash Gapps
then magisk if you want.
Am I being dumb? The gapps package doesn't install anything. No Play Store, no setup on first boot. Just doesn't do it on a completely clean install.
Third flash is a charm I guess. Weird... Still no setup on a factory reset though which sucks since you can't restore your info from Google.
Tanner1294 said:
Am I being dumb? The gapps package doesn't install anything. No Play Store, no setup on first boot. Just doesn't do it on a completely clean install.
Third flash is a charm I guess. Weird... Still no setup on a factory reset though which sucks since you can't restore your info from Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah there's no setup wizard. But don't worry, compiled Aosip Q and put in built in pixel gapps. Will release later
So after Trying different PIE GSIs, I Found a less buggy GSI rom. It's "RR-P-v7.0.3-20191112-A64-A.img" that i found on @turbolukex5 thread on this link. https://forum.xda-developers.com/pr...iscussion/gsi-expressluke-built-gsis-t4003457
basically i tested camera, BT,in call audio, Fingerprint and Mobile Hotspot. So far they work pretty nice. The only thing that doesn't work as of now is the MTP. So you need to reboot to TWRP to transfer files on storage.
If this thread is prohibited, kindly remove it. I just want to share what i found today. Thank you.
Curcepogi said:
So after Trying different PIE GSIs, I Found a less buggy GSI rom. It's "RR-P-v7.0.3-20191112-A64-A.img" that i found on @turbolukex5 thread on this link. https://forum.xda-developers.com/pr...iscussion/gsi-expressluke-built-gsis-t4003457
basically i tested camera, BT,in call audio, Fingerprint and Mobile Hotspot. So far they work pretty nice. The only thing that doesn't work as of now is the MTP. So you need to reboot to TWRP to transfer files on storage.
If this thread is prohibited, kindly remove it. I just want to share what i found today. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use kraken kernel for fixing MTP.
heni87 said:
You can use kraken kernel for fixing MTP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks bro. I will try it later if you can give me the link. I cant rly find it on internet.
Curcepogi said:
Thanks bro. I will try it later if you can give me the link. I cant rly find it on internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://github.com/SPART4NICUS/DOWN...Kernel-V3.0-universal7870-Treble-20200108.zip
Working. On. A6+ gsi
elokuba said:
Working. On. A6+ gsi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. It will definitely work on any Device that is treble Enabled. You just need to find the Correct vendor for your device. :highfive:
heni87 said:
https://github.com/SPART4NICUS/DOWN...Kernel-V3.0-universal7870-Treble-20200108.zip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I will try and report here later. As of now the only bug i got is the Camera when using flash. The shutter is not synced with the flash. You will get a dark photo when taking at night.
Curcepogi said:
Thanks. I will try and report here later. As of now the only bug i got is the Camera when using flash. The shutter is not synced with the flash. You will get a dark photo when taking at night.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's basically a bug which is present in almost every GSI. Use footej/open camera from play store instead. Those will also give you back some of the manual controls if you are into that sorta thing.
heni87 said:
That's basically a bug which is present in almost every GSI. Use footej/open camera from play store instead. Those will also give you back some of the manual controls if you are into that sorta thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already tried the kernel. I got a working MTP after reboot(bare bones, no GApps). But when i install GApps(Aroma) the rom is very sluggish and FP was broken during setup. So i did not finish the setup and i quickly reverted to stock. ?
wats bether version on a6+
Curcepogi said:
I already tried the kernel. I got a working MTP after reboot(bare bones, no GApps). But when i install GApps(Aroma) the rom is very sluggish and FP was broken during setup. So i did not finish the setup and i quickly reverted to stock. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure but the guy who compiled that kernel said not to use magisk it breaks too many stuff.
heni87 said:
Not sure but the guy who compiled that kernel said not to use magisk it breaks too many stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not used magisk on setup. This are my steps:
-Flashed GSI
-Flashed Kraken kernel
-rebooted and did factory reset
-Resized the system to flash GApps.
-flashed GApps aroma.
And the phone is already sluggish. Any thoughts bro?
elokuba said:
wats bether version on a6+
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have that device. But u can use CPU info or CPU Z and Treble check to know what variant is for you.
Curcepogi said:
I don't have that device. But u can use CPU info or CPU Z and Treble check to know what variant is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which version should i use? Arm64? Or a64 only?
tutul2336 said:
Which version should i use? Arm64? Or a64 only?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same as mine. A64_a only
Curcepogi said:
I did not used magisk on setup. This are my steps:
-Flashed GSI
-Flashed Kraken kernel
-rebooted and did factory reset
-Resized the system to flash GApps.
-flashed GApps aroma.
And the phone is already sluggish. Any thoughts bro?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would help you out much better if you could come at our telegram. But for now try doing everything first and reserve flashing kraken as last step also factory reset is unnecessary.
heni87 said:
Would help you out much better if you could come at our telegram. But for now try doing everything first and reserve flashing kraken as last step also factory reset is unnecessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your efforts on this query. I will try your suggestions as soon as im available again. Thank you bro.
Curcepogi said:
I appreciate your efforts on this query. I will try your suggestions as soon as im available again. Thank you bro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anytime bud. Search us on telegram by @SM_A600X don't wanna post the invite link since a mod will eventually come and take it down.
heni87 said:
https://github.com/SPART4NICUS/DOWN...Kernel-V3.0-universal7870-Treble-20200108.zip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is newer version https://github.com/SPART4NICUS/DOWNLOADS/releases/tag/RC11
any good GSI on A6+? Have you tried Havoc OS?
i found this Nippon gsi https://sourceforge.net/projects/nippongsi/files/
is there any rom suitable for h9l there?
wiztod said:
i found this Nippon gsi https://sourceforge.net/projects/nippongsi/files/
is there any rom suitable for h9l there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not, ports from Nippon are SGSI (just a ripped out system part of the original device, without adaptations for other devices), afaik.
-Alf- said:
Probably not, ports from Nippon are SGSI (just a ripped out system part of the original device, without adaptations for other devices), afaik.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i actually want to try project sakura. but gsi one here only vanilla ver.
wiztod said:
i actually want to try project sakura. but gsi one here only vanilla ver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sakura by "braialindo"? It should work.
-Alf- said:
Sakura by "braialindo"? It should work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, but there is only vanilla ver. i cant flash gapps in my h9l via twrp.
wiztod said:
yeah, but there is only vanilla ver. i cant flash gapps in my h9l via twrp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for what reason?
i dont know. already tried all ver of twrp for huawei phone. always said there is no changes after i flashed gapss.
wiztod said:
already tried all ver of twrp for huawei phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look here
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/recommended-and-tested-twrp-recovery.4199099/
In TWRP first resize system, then try to flash nikgapps basic version.
-Alf- said:
Look here
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/recommended-and-tested-twrp-recovery.4199099/
In TWRP first resize system, then try to flash nikgapps basic version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think 3.4. ver work a little for me. bcs whe i flashed dload it worked.
wiztod said:
i think 3.4. ver work a little for me. bcs whe i flashed dload it worked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
???
dload has nothing to do with TWRP...
-Alf- said:
???
dload has nothing to do with TWRP...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
eh? really? then which version should i use?
-Alf- said:
???
dload has nothing to do with TWRP...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
still cannot flash gapps. i cant even resize partition.
wiztod said:
still cannot flash gapps. i cant even resize partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you are doing something wrong, maybe Project-Sakura is not fully compatible with Kirin, maybe you downloaded wrong version, idk...
Choose a normal GSI ROM, based on phh AOSP, that works on Kirin-devices.
-Alf- said:
Maybe you are doing something wrong, maybe Project-Sakura is not fully compatible with Kirin, maybe you downloaded wrong version, idk...
Choose a normal GSI ROM, based on phh AOSP, that works on Kirin-devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok. last question.
i'm currently using los19, what should i do to flash a10 gsi rom? i tried flashing evox a10 gsi, but it stucked on evox logo. should i downgrade to emui 8 first or flash other version?
wiztod said:
ok. last question.
i'm currently using los19, what should i do to flash a10 gsi rom? i tried flashing evox a10 gsi, but it stucked on evox logo. should i downgrade to emui 8 first or flash other version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nippon, Sakura, Evox, LOS 19...
Are you trolling me?
If you're bored in quarantine, turn on the TV.
-Alf- said:
Nippon, Sakura, Evox, LOS 19...
Are you trolling me?
If you're bored in quarantine, turn on the TV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What? I just flashing every roms to find the best rom for my h9l. But i can only tried a11 and a12. Now i tried all a11 a12 roms, i wanna try a10 roms. But i dont know how to flash a10 gsi rom. The only a10 rom i tried to flash was evolution x 4.6 ab gapps, but it stucked on the rom logo forever.
mb000k said:
What? I just flashing every roms to find the best rom for my h9l. But i can only tried a11 and a12. Now i tried all a11 a12 roms, i wanna try a10 roms. But i dont know how to flash a10 gsi rom. The only a10 rom i tried to flash was evolution x 4.6 ab gapps, but it stucked on the rom logo forever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@wiztod , @mb000k , how many alt accounts have you got kid
-Alf- said:
@wiztod , @mb000k , how many alt accounts have you got kid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if dont want to help me or u dont know the solution, then just say it. i just need help here but then u accused me of trolling. wtf. not everyone is at the same level of u. so some of us still ask "how to to this" because we couldnt find it in google. how hard it to just answer my question? i think that is an easy question for u
wiztod said:
if dont want to help me or u dont know the solution, then just say it. i just need help here but then u accused me of trolling. wtf. not everyone is at the same level of u. so some of us still ask "how to to this" because we couldnt find it in google. how hard it to just answer my question? i think that is an easy question for u
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just don't be offended... This forum is not a 24/7 service for which you have paid, it is run by volunteers - me included - who sacrifice their free time.
A decent person writes "Thank you", and not "wtf"...
Everything you need to know can be found here
https://forum.xda-developers.com/f/huawei-p20-lite-roms-kernels-recoveries-other.7620/
https://forum.xda-developers.com/f/huawei-p20-lite-guides-news-discussion.7619/
wiztod said:
or u dont know the solution,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
-Alf- said:
Just don't be offended... This forum is not a 24/7 service for which you have paid, it is run by volunteers - me included - who sacrifice their free time.
A decent person writes "Thank you", and not "wtf"...
Everything you need to know can be found here
https://forum.xda-developers.com/f/huawei-p20-lite-roms-kernels-recoveries-other.7620/
https://forum.xda-developers.com/f/huawei-p20-lite-guides-news-discussion.7619/
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I followed every steps there, but still didn't work. That's why i ask here