I know that 7.1.2 on the Nexus 6 is not supported by Google, but anyone know if any of the developers tried incorporating based on the AOSP 7.1.2 chain?
You realize those are preview builds for the other devices right? Code isn't pushed to AOSP yet AFAIK. I think the highest is 7.1.1_r22
edit: maybe it is? https://android.googlesource.com/platform/system/core/+/android-n-mr2-preview-1
Not worth trying at the moment. The source will change from preview to the final build. It's better to wait until the final build gets pushed out and the full source code reaches aosp. In other words, patience, young grasshopper. We will get custom Roms based on 7.1.2 ?
Arju said:
Not worth trying at the moment. The source will change from preview to the final build. It's better to wait until the final build gets pushed out and the full source code reaches aosp. In other words, patience, young grasshopper. We will get custom Roms based on 7.1.2
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Thanks gentlemen! I understand you want to base on the final build to hopefully get rid of most of the bugs..
and the big improvements between 7.1.1 and 7.1.2 are what?
Personally I think we all get too excited by these updates. Me, I struggle to see the major differences between Kitkat and 7.1.1 (I'm pretty unobservant, but hey, it's just a communication/entertainment device, yeah?) so although I look forward to playing with the new version I raraly see any killer difference. Android, to my eyes, is about as advanced as it can get until it can actually give me a backrub and a cup of fresh-brewed coffee in the morning. I'm not holding my breath...
dahawthorne said:
Personally I think we all get too excited by these updates. Me, I struggle to see the major differences between Kitkat and 7.1.1 (I'm pretty unobservant, but hey, it's just a communication/entertainment device, yeah?) so although I look forward to playing with the new version I raraly see any killer difference. Android, to my eyes, is about as advanced as it can get until it can actually give me a backrub and a cup of fresh-brewed coffee in the morning. I'm not holding my breath...
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Are you also blind? Because Kitkat and Nougat are miles apart.
I'm short-sighted. No need to be offensive.
Examples? I can play videos, talk to people, text. What major (and I mean major) differences are there then? It's a phone and communications device. Kitkat did that. Nougat is just icing.
Go on, justify your statement rather than just being offended and offensive.
@admiralspeedy: No, @dahawthorne is right in that the changes in Android recently have been more evolutionary than revolutionary. The last really significant change in Android was switching from Dalvik to ART, which was experimental in Android 4.4.x and enabled in Android 5.x. and up.
Note that Material Design isn't a significant change, and neither is SEAndroid enforcement.
Strephon Alkhalikoi said:
@admiralspeedy: No, @dahawthorne is right in that the changes in Android recently have been more evolutionary than revolutionary. The last really significant change in Android was switching from Dalvik to ART, which was experimental in Android 4.4.x and enabled in Android 5.x. and up.
Note that Material Design isn't a significant change, and neither is SEAndroid enforcement.
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Everything can't be "revolutionary" and being evolutionary hardly means that there are very few big changes. KitKat is the last iteration of Android to use the Holo theme and now through Lollipop, Marshmallow and Nougat we've had several major improvements to the entire Android interface through material design. The interface changes alone are enough to consider KitKat and anything newer, vastly different. You also mentioned Dalvik to ART, which is a huge change, but you failed to mention proper 64-bit support (beginning with Lollipop), more customization (such as the notification tray toggles), native multi-window, the official fingerprint API, and when the next iteration is released, KitKat will probably be dropped from security patches unless a ton of people are still hanging on to it.
Really the list goes on but I think it's quite ridiculous to say that the evolutionary changes made from KitKat to Nougat are hardly substantial.
But @dahawthorne never said there were no significant changes. All he said is he couldn't see them. As for what you've listed, nothing there is truly significant, not even 64-bit computing. That's not to say they're not welcome or anything like that, but Dalvik to ART is significant because it fundamentally changed how Android worked under the hood.
P. S. Calling other posters blind because you can't see their point? Ironic.
admiralspeedy said:
Everything can't be "revolutionary" and being evolutionary hardly means that there are very few big changes. KitKat is the last iteration of Android to use the Holo theme and now through Lollipop, Marshmallow and Nougat we've had several major improvements to the entire Android interface through material design. The interface changes alone are enough to consider KitKat and anything newer, vastly different. You also mentioned Dalvik to ART, which is a huge change, but you failed to mention proper 64-bit support (beginning with Lollipop), more customization (such as the notification tray toggles), native multi-window, the official fingerprint API, and when the next iteration is released, KitKat will probably be dropped from security patches unless a ton of people are still hanging on to it.
Really the list goes on but I think it's quite ridiculous to say that the evolutionary changes made from KitKat to Nougat are hardly substantial.
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I think that my point would be best-illustrated by handing two phones (Kitkat & Nougat) to a "normal" user (i.e. non-XDA person interested in using the phone and uninterested in the technology). I can easily imagine the scenario because I'm married to one. She might say that the new icons look nice, and the design is easy on the eye. Dalvik/ART? Couldn't care less. 64-bit? Even *I* couldn't care less. Multi-window? Impractical even on my N6's large screen, and effectively a tech showpiece, a solution looking for a problem. My N6 and my wife's N5 don't have a fingerprint reader, and in any case that's more of a hardware feature requiring software rather than a software feature in its own right. And persuading her to let me install new security versions is like pulling teeth.
I therefore stand full-square behind my original "little difference" statement, because to the "normal" user that's exactly the case.
this thread actually is about differences between 7.11 and 7.12
and, whether you think there are major differences between lollipop, kitkat and nougat, I think we ALL can agree that the differences between a 7.11 os and a 7.12 os will hardly be worth anyone's time to get excited about.
maybe when it moves to 8.0 it will be significant, but a one dot move in ANY OS generally means absolutely nothing
dahawthorne said:
I think that my point would be best-illustrated by handing two phones (Kitkat & Nougat) to a "normal" user (i.e. non-XDA person interested in using the phone and uninterested in the technology). I can easily imagine the scenario because I'm married to one. She might say that the new icons look nice, and the design is easy on the eye. Dalvik/ART? Couldn't care less. 64-bit? Even *I* couldn't care less. Multi-window? Impractical even on my N6's large screen, and effectively a tech showpiece, a solution looking for a problem. My N6 and my wife's N5 don't have a fingerprint reader, and in any case that's more of a hardware feature requiring software rather than a software feature in its own right. And persuading her to let me install new security versions is like pulling teeth.
I therefore stand full-square behind my original "little difference" statement, because to the "normal" user that's exactly the case.
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Agreed. The average person couldn't care less or even really tell a difference. My gf is the same way. She doesn't even Ike doing the monthly security updates to the point she made disable it lol. As long as it makes calls, texts, Facebook and a few websites then she is happy.
wase4711 said:
this thread actually is about differences between 7.11 and 7.12
and, whether you think there are major differences between lollipop, kitkat and nougat, I think we ALL can agree that the differences between a 7.11 os and a 7.12 os will hardly be worth anyone's time to get excited about.
maybe when it moves to 8.0 it will be significant, but a one dot move in ANY OS generally means absolutely nothing
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l2tp protocol should be fixed in 7.1..2 according to issue #196939. it is something i was waiting for almost two years.
never heard of that, never read about that, have no clue about that, and you wont find any discussion about it on XDA, so, its not an issue that is at the forefront in anyone I knows mind...
wase4711 said:
never heard of that, never read about that, have no clue about that, and you wont find any discussion about it on XDA, so, its not an issue that is at the forefront in anyone I knows mind...
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This is true that you are not seeing talks about it but just because you dont see anything said about it on XDA doesnt mean it is not in the forfront of anyones mind.
Talks like that really arent dont in the threads anymore but in private chats. 99% of any real development talks are done away from users these days.
As for 7.1.2 this will start to get really hard as this is when 32bit support dies and all of Google code is for 64 bit chips. Developers are already starting to see the change over and soo it will be true death for 32 bit devices. As porting it backwards is almost not conceivable.
To be honest, 32-bit supports won't go away, in fact it's required. Why? ARM Cortex A35 and A7 CPUs which will be here to stay, even though it's obviously true that industry and ROM developers are moving to 64-bit support (ie. AARCH64 AKA ARM64 mode) - ie. Cortex A53 and up to A73, the 32-bit ARM processors will still be used for many years to come, obviously for embedded battery life reasons, like Android Wear.
Otherwise, Nexus 6 will be my last 32-bit device (I know Android Oreo will still come onto Nexus 6 via Lineage OS, obviously because it will still support 32-bit mode for some reasons - Android Wear is based on full-blown Android OS, so if you remove 32-bit mode support, you risk breaking the watch ecosystem). I am kind of torn between ASUS ZenFone AR or Pixel 2. Hard choice.
Dr. Mario said:
To be honest, 32-bit supports won't go away, in fact it's required. Why? ARM Cortex A35 and A7 CPUs which will be here to stay, even though it's obviously true that industry and ROM developers are moving to 64-bit support (ie. AARCH64 AKA ARM64 mode) - ie. Cortex A53 and up to A73, the 32-bit ARM processors will still be used for many years to come, obviously for embedded battery life reasons, like Android Wear.
Otherwise, Nexus 6 will be my last 32-bit device (I know Android Oreo will still come onto Nexus 6 via Lineage OS, obviously because it will still support 32-bit mode for some reasons - Android Wear is based on full-blown Android OS, so if you remove 32-bit mode support, you risk breaking the watch ecosystem). I am kind of torn between ASUS ZenFone AR or Pixel 2. Hard choice.
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Just because those chips are here doesnt mean the OS has to support it. Plus with the adaption rate of devices, by the time that it would matter 99% of devices will already being running a 64 bit chip.
Look at it this way. Google only works on code for their base devices. All 64bit.
As of LOS. If they dont have a base to work from then it will be very hard indeed.
They will not risk that. It is already in the works if you think about it. Only the n6 is a 32bit device that google supports. So they already have it setup for 64bit to work with the watch.
If you watch google source code you will see the transition.
True, but who knows, as of now? Google occasionally pull the surprises (I don't trust commit notes from certain companies such as Google, they occasionally put too much eggs into a basket - recent Nexus and Pixel muck-ups proves that), so it's possible they would either continue with transition or just cancel it and stick with hybrid builds. It's now more of a wait and see thing.
Since my job involves Huawei firmware updates, I get the chance to do some experimentation as part of my work.
We have firmware for the yet-unreleased device we believe to be the P11.
https://imgur.com/Dz39Igd
You can see the about phone screen here. The Pre-release codename is PAT, but the real codename of the device is EML, for Emily. We can see the real name in HiSuite.
https://imgur.com/E9ubNyl
Although there were no real new feature to speak of (a few re-arrangements of menus in settings aside), and the camera didn't work (probably new camera coming so this one is obvious), it should be possible to create a hybrid ROM in the future, if there are any new features coming to the P11 which we'd like to get on the Mate 10.
Note: Similarly to when we rebranded a Mate 9 to a P10, Wifi didn't work. However, with a hybrid ROM we were able to get it working.
Note 2: No plans to release this, as it really doesn't serve any useful purpose at this time. But in the future, perhaps it will, and we can release something to flash via fastboot
If I find anything useful which can become of this, of course I will announce it.
So today Motorola India launched a new variant of X4 in India. Bumping the RAM from 3 & 4 GB to 6GB with same 64GB storage.
The main highlight is the phone comes with Oreo out of box and it supports Treble..
Now see what Motorola has to say about new X4 Variant -
There don't seem to be any other differences but the RAM amount, and the fact that the handset ships with Oreo by default. Motorola does say that there are a few interface tweaks pertinent to the fresh X4, but the other models will eventually get them, too. After that the key difference will be the extra 2GB of RAM.
So what is Motorola is talking here abt that the older models will eventually get it..? Is it the treble support.?
If they don't enable treble on the original moto x4, they will be loosing out on many potential customers who care about the latest updates and ROMs. I think that not enabling treble will be a huge mistake on Motorola's part. I'm also starting to get annoyed with the huge market catering to India...
Honestly, I think there's 0 chance it will happen, sorry.
Do you guys think its possible to flash the stock rom from a new moto x4 to an old one ? That could be a way to enable treble for the "old" devices
harry_martini said:
Do you guys think its possible to flash the stock rom from a new moto x4 to an old one ? That could be a way to enable treble for the "old" devices
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I am curious to take a look at the firmware from this device. Does anyone have it?
No one should hold their breath for a "Treble Update" from Motorola... it may require repartitioning the device and doing that via OTA would be quite a challenge and be too risky for them.
That said, I would still like to see the vendor/HAL implementation, and especially check out partitioning. From an efficiency/cost standpoint it would be surprising to see any major differences in structure since that would require Motorola to have a dev team just for one new variant.
But even if the devices are identical that does not mean we could simply flash the Treble firmware. There would seem to be an intermediate step that would require partitioning. It may be beyond the scope of our existing tools. These may be changes that could only be made with Motorola proprietary software.
But an interesting development, nonetheless...
Just did a little reading, and it seems that the hardware IS different than the original X4...specifically the SoC which is SDM636 running custom Kyro architecture vs. our SDM630
mightysween said:
Just did a little reading, and it seems that the hardware IS different than the original X4...specifically the SoC which is SDM636 running custom Kyro architecture vs. our SDM630
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where did u read that..?
The only difference is extra 2gb ram and Oreo out of box.
here is the product page, check for yourself..
https://www.flipkart.com/moto-x4-super-black-64-gb/p/itmez9u3cgg9zfy2?pid=MOBFF6GGPJYKGQCK&sattr=color&sattr=storage&sattr=ram&st=ram
Jithin91 said:
where did u read that..?
The only difference is extra 2gb ram and Oreo out of box.
here is the product page, check for yourself..
https://www.flipkart.com/moto-x4-su...CK&sattr=color&sattr=storage&sattr=ram&st=ram
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Read it here on XDA
https://www.xda-developers.com/new-motorola-moto-x4-variant-india-february-1/
mightysween said:
Read it here on XDA
https://www.xda-developers.com/new-motorola-moto-x4-variant-india-february-1/
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it was a rumour. x4 6gb version is still having sdm630.
kraatus90 said:
it was a rumour. x4 6gb version is still having sdm630.
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Excellent... can't wait to see under the hood
I don't think so, but it IS possible.
When Oreo came out, it was important for Motorola to update their phones quickly to Oreo;
in order to look good compared to other brands.
Implementing Treble would take more time; but once implemented would make it easier for them to provide faster security updates in the future.
So it's a possibility that the next security update in january or february, may include Treble.
The moto X4 is due to receive Security updates until April 2019, so Treble might make sense to Motorola.
But there's definately no way to know for sure.
But isn't 6 GB just a variant of Moto x4, so probably it also doesn't have project treble enabled.
Jithin91 said:
So today Motorola India launched a new variant of X4 in India. Bumping the RAM from 3 & 4 GB to 6GB with same 64GB storage.
The main highlight is the phone comes with Oreo out of box and it supports Treble..
Now see what Motorola has to say about new X4 Variant -
There don't seem to be any other differences but the RAM amount, and the fact that the handset ships with Oreo by default. Motorola does say that there are a few interface tweaks pertinent to the fresh X4, but the other models will eventually get them, too. After that the key difference will be the extra 2GB of RAM.
So what is Motorola is talking here abt that the older models will eventually get it..? Is it the treble support.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also sad seeing such slow development on X4 not much roms, not official or unofficial treble support!, still being Android one device is so sad and bad!
---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
mightysween said:
I am curious to take a look at the firmware from this device. Does anyone have it?
No one should hold their breath for a "Treble Update" from Motorola... it may require repartitioning the device and doing that via OTA would be quite a challenge and be too risky for them.
That said, I would still like to see the vendor/HAL implementation, and especially check out partitioning. From an efficiency/cost standpoint it would be surprising to see any major differences in structure since that would require Motorola to have a dev team just for one new variant.
But even if the devices are identical that does not mean we could simply flash the Treble firmware. There would seem to be an intermediate step that would require partitioning. It may be beyond the scope of our existing tools. These may be changes that could only be made with Motorola proprietary software.
But an interesting development, nonetheless...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am very sad seeing such slow development on X4 not much roms, not official or unofficial treble support!, still being Android one device is so sad and bad!
The slow development is because of the A/B partition scheme, if you look other phones that uses the same partition system it'll be the same, it's Google "fault".
Last I checked, all devices running Oreo have to have Treble. That is why everyone was mad at HTC for shipping new phones with Nougat.It especially makes sense for the Android One variant because the have to get timely updates out, which they have. It would be off for the 6gb to have it and no others because Google requires every
I need to get a new phone, but I don't have a lot of money, so I'm looking for something cheep (under $150) but that should support last a while (so should have a decent developer community around it).
So I'm thinking of either getting a athene or something from xiaomi, or waiting a bit until most phones come out with android > 8 and then get something cheep with Treble.
Now it's true that there are no guarantees when it comes to ROMs. A maintainer could get bored and move on, leaving an immensely popular device dry while a small niche device can have a dedicated maintainer for years. But my question is that since I'm not really a ROM dev (I know Java, C, and general Linux but don't know the inner bowels of Android) I don't know how difficult will it be to port future Android versions to current phones.
For example, according to the rumor mill, other ROMs are finding it extremely hard to port Oreo to klte or to s4 due to camera HAL issues. So based on the above, what would be the most reasonable way to proceed?
iamfoolish said:
I need to get a new phone, but I don't have a lot of money, so I'm looking for something cheep (under $150) but that should support last a while (so should have a decent developer community around it).
So I'm thinking of either getting a athene or something from xiaomi, or waiting a bit until most phones come out with android > 8 and then get something cheep with Treble.
Now it's true that there are no guarantees when it comes to ROMs. A maintainer could get bored and move on, leaving an immensely popular device dry while a small niche device can have a dedicated maintainer for years. But my question is that since I'm not really a ROM dev (I know Java, C, and general Linux but don't know the inner bowels of Android) I don't know how difficult will it be to port future Android versions to current phones.
For example, according to the rumor mill, other ROMs are finding it extremely hard to port Oreo to klte or to s4 due to camera HAL issues. So based on the above, what would be the most reasonable way to proceed?
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Athene ftw