Anyone notice that optical image stabilization is missing in the specifications? I just did a quick search and found several sources saying its digital stabilization. A little bummed about that. Thoughts anyone? :crying:
From the videos, its pretty stable with digital stabilization compared to other smartphones no?
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expertzero1 said:
From the videos, its pretty stable with digital stabilization compared to other smartphones no?
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Yeah, can't wait for a couple full blown reviews. If anything, hopefully they will bundle the qx10 for preorders in the US too. I hear the qx10 has the optical stabilization. I'm just worried about the low light blurriness. I had the 1020 and it was fantastic.
Smartphone makers try to close the image quality gap between their phones and actual camera.
However, to be honest, I do not rely to much to phone camera.
Their lens can't and sensors can't compare to actual camera even point and shot one, not saying SLR cameras.
Anyway, a phone without a camera is also something should be in history.
It doesn't have optical image stabilization. That's why the night shots aren't so good. OIS allows for slower shutter speed and more exposure. The digital image stabilization is only used for video. All phones have this already. The Lumia 920/925, Lumia 1020, Note 3, HTC One, and LG G2 have OIS, but Sony chickened out and wanted a FLAT camera with no bump because it ruins their sense of aesthetic. They could probably make it even thinner and flatter if they removed the camera and battery completely. How about removing all the internals? A beautiful sliver thin paperweight that looks nice as long as you don't touch it and smudge it up with your filthy plebeian fingers. I'm sure there are many buyers among the Sony loyalists for this sort of product.
katamari201 said:
It doesn't have optical image stabilization. That's why the night shots aren't so good. OIS allows for slower shutter speed and more exposure. The digital image stabilization is only used for video. All phones have this already. The Lumia 920/925, Lumia 1020, Note 3, HTC One, and LG G2 have OIS, but Sony chickened out and wanted a FLAT camera with no bump because it ruins their sense of aesthetic. They could probably make it even thinner and flatter if they removed the camera and battery completely. How about removing all the internals? A beautiful sliver thin paperweight that looks nice as long as you don't touch it and smudge it up with your filthy plebeian fingers. I'm sure there are many buyers among the Sony loyalists for this sort of product.
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Dude, what is your problem? It's only a phone with camera that can rival with the best currently available when it comes to pure picture quality. It bests S4 in low light shots and rivals 1020, in daylight photos you can clearly see more details compared to S4 (which by many is considered to have the best camera on android). What is true is that Sony still needs to improve their algorithm but even as it is now it can produce exceptional photos even in full 20mpix resolution.
Stop acting like a baby!!
Wishmaster89 said:
Dude, what is your problem? It's only a phone with camera that can rival with the best currently available when it comes to pure picture quality. It bests S4 in low light shots and rivals 1020, in daylight photos you can clearly see more details compared to S4 (which by many is considered to have the best camera on android). What is true is that Sony still needs to improve their algorithm but even as it is now it can produce exceptional photos even in full 20mpix resolution.
Stop acting like a baby!!
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I think that we all just wanted them to do it right you know? They went out to make a great camera phone and it feels like they stopped 5% away from the finish line. Still, will probably be a great phone and a great camera.
systoxity said:
I think that we all just wanted them to do it right you know? They went out to make a great camera phone and it feels like they stopped 5% away from the finish line. Still, will probably be a great phone and a great camera.
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There'a a difference between disappointment and senseless bashing and that is what I was criticizing.
I agree that it is a shame that they weren't able to include OIS or sensor shift but I think that it could have been currently impossible with such a big sensor and bigger lens than other manufacturers. It is a shame but it's not something that automatically makes it worse than G2 or note 3/S4, on the contrary I still think that it'll end up doing better pictures than both of them.
Sony SteadyShot
It's not all down hill guys, the Z1 has Sony's SteadyShot technology in it, it just appears to only work in video mode which imo is best place, I suppose there will be more clarification once it's out......http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-z1/features/#camera
katamari201 said:
It doesn't have optical image stabilization. That's why the night shots aren't so good. OIS allows for slower shutter speed and more exposure. The digital image stabilization is only used for video. All phones have this already. The Lumia 920/925, Lumia 1020, Note 3, HTC One, and LG G2 have OIS, but Sony chickened out and wanted a FLAT camera with no bump because it ruins their sense of aesthetic. They could probably make it even thinner and flatter if they removed the camera and battery completely. How about removing all the internals? A beautiful sliver thin paperweight that looks nice as long as you don't touch it and smudge it up with your filthy plebeian fingers. I'm sure there are many buyers among the Sony loyalists for this sort of product.
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You sound completely mental.
OIS.. will increase quality for low light shot without question...because of ISO..dont know the ISO range.. any one knows?
jos_031 said:
OIS.. will increase quality for low light shot without question...because of ISO..dont know the ISO range.. any one knows?
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6400 it says on the Sony site I linked it 2 posts back.
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katamari201 said:
It doesn't have optical image stabilization. That's why the night shots aren't so good. OIS allows for slower shutter speed and more exposure. The digital image stabilization is only used for video. All phones have this already. The Lumia 920/925, Lumia 1020, Note 3, HTC One, and LG G2 have OIS, but Sony chickened out and wanted a FLAT camera with no bump because it ruins their sense of aesthetic. They could probably make it even thinner and flatter if they removed the camera and battery completely. How about removing all the internals? A beautiful sliver thin paperweight that looks nice as long as you don't touch it and smudge it up with your filthy plebeian fingers. I'm sure there are many buyers among the Sony loyalists for this sort of product.
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You're just trolling. I've been checking on the photo samples from the Z1 for the past couple days cause I'm considering getting one. I've been waiting for HTC to announce the One Max, but the lack of doing so at the IFA completely made me give up on them and push me toward getting a Z1 instead. At first I noticed the photos had a lot of noise from the Z1 photo samples, but it seems like the noise was taken cared of via software update. The lack of OIS doesn't exactly affect the quality of the photos so far from what I see. The photo samples from the Z1 look more natural than 1020's which had a yellow tint to it. The photos were so defined when comparing the HTC One under low light condition and HTC One is only a bit behind on 1020 under low light condition.
Really, i think at this point we all just need to get our hands on one and give it a shot. The sample photos floating around on the internet certainly haven't been flattering but that could be due to any number of variables. Any word on US release yet?
Exposure is basically the AMOUNT OF LIGHT (controlled by the aperture) that is captured over a SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF TIME (controlled by the shutter speed).
A HIGH aperture number (fstop) = LESS light being recorded on your digital sensor while a LOW aperture number = MORE light being recorded on your digital sensor. apertures are called fstops
Shutter speed: it is the amount of time your shutter stays open when you click the button
The longer your shutter stays open the more motion it will have time to record. The shorter the time your shutter remains open, the more motion it will freeze. But at low light you need more exposure
ISO rating along with the shutter speed and aperture setting are the three elements that determine the final exposure of the photographic image.
The ISO rating, which ranges in value from 25 to 6400 (or beyond), indicates the specific light sensitivity. The lower the number, the less sensitive to light the film stock or image sensor is. Conversely, a higher number indicates a higher sensitivity to light, thereby allowing that film or image sensor to work better in low light conditions.
the lower ISO rating also meant that the photosensitive grains of salt on the film acetate were very fine, thus producing a smoother, cleaner image. A higher ISO had larger, jagged grains of salt, thus producing “rougher” or grainier images.
Lower ISO ratings produce color-accurate, smooth and aesthetically appealing images… and this requires ideal lighting conditions. However, there are some subjects that you want to photograph in low light conditions. Or, you may want to stop fast-moving objects. In both situations, you need higher ISOs to capture those images with an acceptable exposure.with the higher ISOs, you can use faster shutter speeds to eliminate motion blur and/or camera shake. In the event that you want to use motion blur creatively, then decreasing the ISO is simple, and you can then decrease the shutter speed to achieve the desired motion blur and still have smooth, noise-less images.
The size of the digital camera’s image sensor dictates what ISO setting provides the least amount of digital noise. One must understand that image sensor size is not the same thing as pixel count. Image sensor size is the actual physical dimensions of the sensor, for most of the history of digital photography the image sensor has been smaller than a 35mm film frame. On point and shoot cameras, the sensor was quite small, and on most DSLR cameras, the image sensor has been the size of APC film (23x15mm). Smaller image sensors produce much more digital noise at higher ISOs (like 800) mainly because the high pixel count means that more pixels are being packed into a smaller area, thus producing more grain at all but the lowest ISO.
Whenever you shoot in low light or use a long lens, or if you simply aren't holding a camera steady, you risk introducing camera shake into your images. This manifests itself as a blurring of details, and unlike other image quality issues it's not something that can be fixed in post-processing.
The three main image stabilisation systems on offer:
Manufacturers have different names for lens-based stabilisation, but they all largely work in the same way.
ISO based
All but the cheapest compacts offer image stabilisation, and the easiest solution from the manufacturer's point of view is one based on sensitivity. This adds nothing to the manufacturing of a camera as it's simply the ISO which needs to be adjusted, easily handled by the camera's firmware.
As this is the most basic form of image stabilisation, and as other types are preferable, manufacturers often call it 'digital' image stabilisation in press releases and throughout specification lists.
With this type of image stabilisation, the camera looks at the focal length and shutter speed being used, and decides whether the two will create a sharp enough image. If it deems them to be inadequate the camera's sensitivity will be raised, which in turn increases the shutter speed, but the resulting signal will need to be amplified to a greater extent.
So, a camera could choose to raise an image that would be otherwise captured at 1/20sec to 1/80sec, but it would need to raise the sensitivity twofold. So, from ISO 100 this would rise to ISO 400, from ISO 200 to ISO 800 and so on.
The image is still captured sharply as a more appropriate shutter speed has been used, but this process gives rise to noise which is typical with images captured at higher sensitivities. For this reason other systems are preferable in more expensive cameras and lenses. In many compacts, this method is often complemented by sensor-based stabilisation.
Sensor based
Sensor-based stabilisation also uses information such as focal length and shutter speed on which to base its calculations, but instead of adjusting the sensitivity the camera physically moves the sensor.
The sensor will typically be mounted on a platform, which will move to compensate for any movement when the camera senses it is necessary.
Minolta first introduced the feature in its DiMAGE A1 camera back in 2003, and, after merging with Konica, incorporated it into the 7D DSLR.
Sony continued the feature when it took over Konica Minolta's imaging business, and was soon joined by Pentax, Olympus and others. All three companies continue to use the system today, and it has since been adopted by other manufacturers for their own hybrid systems and compacts.
In the case of DSLRs and hybrids, this type of image stabilisation brings the significant advantage of allowing lenses to be made smaller, lighter and cheaper (as they do not need to incorporate any form of image stabilisation themselves), and is effective with virtually any mounted lens. This is particularly handy in the case of older lenses which predate image stabilisation technology, although it may be necessary to first input the focal length of the lens into the camera, depending on the lens, camera and the nature of communication between the two.
Lens based
Lens-based image stabilisation came just before digital cameras were made accessible, but the two have more or less evolved over a similar space of time.
Today, the technology is found in a range of optics manufactured by Canon and Nikon (particularly those targeted towards the professional), as well throughout the ranges from independent lens manufacturers Sigma and Tamron. Panasonic also uses the system in its lenses designed for the Micro Four Thirds system, as well as those found in its Lumix range of compacts.
Lens-based stabilisation systems typically work by shifting a lens group towards the rear of the lens on a plane perpendicular to the optical axis.
This is done with the help of two gyro sensors inside the lens, one for yaw and one for pitch. These notice the angle and speed of any movement, and this information is fed to a microprocessor which computes the necessary adjustments needed to be made by the lens group. By doing so, the light's angle of refraction is changed so that it hits the sensor in the right place.
Manufacturers of these systems claim that this type of stabilisation is the most effective as it can be tailored specifically to the objective in which it us used. And, as stabilisation takes place in the lens, the photographer is able to view the effect through the viewfinder.
Typically this activates once the shutter release has been half-depressed, although it is possible on different camera/lens combinations to set when the stabilisation begins, such as only at the moment of capture, for example. This has the additional benefit of conserving power, as, left on all the time, lens-based image stabilisation systems can eat up battery power fairly quickly.
One recent development in this area is Canon's Hybrid IS system, which offers two types of correction.
The first is via an angular velocity sensor which notices rotational shake, which is found in existing image-stabilised lenses.
Canon 100mmThe second - and what makes the Hybrid IS system different - is a separate sensor for noticing camera shift (linear) movements, such as when a camera moves up, down, left or right while remaining parallel to the subject. Canon claims that by incorporating both sensors camera shake is better corrected.
Now i guess everyone got importance of OIS feature..
And i tried the camera of xperia Z1.. the picture was blurry at full zoom. but noise was absent..I feel low noise is more important than full zoom blur...because the photo is excellent for normal usage
wow, thank you that was a great read.
Hey everyone,
Is someone able to speak to the quality of the front camera on these? I have the HD 8, the front camera is advertised as "HD" (probably 2 MP) and performs surprisingly well.
I'm curious about the quality of the front camera on the 7. It's advertised as VGA, so probably .3 MP. I've used some of the low end Dragon Touch tablets with .3 MP front cameras and the quality is *terrible*, it easily took 5+ seconds to focus on anything. But part of that could be the camera app, the manufacturer of the sensor itself or something else to do with the quality of the hardware.
At $150, the HD 8 isn't prohibitively expensive, but it would be nice to get away with the $50 7 instead. The main functionality I'm looking for is whether it's able to focus in and scan a QR code (version 2 density) quickly.
Thanks!
Just tried it. The front camera takes the photo fast enough, but the image is very smudgy and a bit too high contrast. It's VGA. It would be ok for video chat in a well lit environment but not for much else. If you're one of those 'selfie' types, you'll want a different camera. :laugh:
The 2mp camera on the back seems to be a bit better, but then it should be. Needs to be changed to 4:3 to use the full sensor, as it defaults to 16:9. The HDR mode improves picture quality by a fair margin. Especially unintentionally overexposed ones. As with all these cheapo cameras you will have to hold the whole device still to get a clear shot.
Neither camera is anything special and I'd say both are below average. The 1.9mp camera in my Samsung Gear smartwatch is leaps and bounds above the image quality of this Asus Fire tablet and it's 2 years older with a similar lens size.
The app for the camera does the job but is very basic with few options to change.
this video shows both front and rear cammeras
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSpPRJ7wghY
The 2x button is not actually switching cameras, it is just preforming a digital zoom on the wide camera.
I placed a piece of electrical tape over the long range lens, in 1x I can see clearly, in 2x I can see clearly (but digitally zoomed in)
Only in Live Focus is the camera blocked by the electrical tape.
So my question is, is Live Focus the only way to use the second camera?
Seems like a waste of a second camera. This is not how it was handled on other dual camera phones, what gives Samsung?
https://www.slashgear.com/note-8-camera-5-things-you-need-to-know-23496299/
And as per Slashgear: Instead, just as we’ve seen on the iPhone 7 Plus, Samsung mixes together the data from the wide-angle and telephoto lenses on the Note 8 to give the effect of a zoom. The result is the equivalent of 2x optical zoom, completely lossless, as well as a 10x digital zoom.
Going from 1x to 2x is an optical zoom on the wide angel camera, not digital. Beyond 2x is digital zoom.
Nowhere did Samsung claim that going from 1x to 2x was done by switching cameras.
WorldIRC said:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/getting-to-know-the-samsung-galaxy-note-8-dual-camera-features/
They insist the 2x button triggers the other camera.
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The Cnet reviewer is mistaken on the 1x to 2x camera switching.
As stated above, the test is pretty simple to figure out which lens is being used.
https://www.reddit.com/r/oneplus/comments/brxs28/oneplus_7_pros_telephoto_camera_is_not_3x/
Marketing nonsense from OP then?
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Batfink33 said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oneplus/comments/brxs28/oneplus_7_pros_telephoto_camera_is_not_3x/
Marketing nonsense from OP then?
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Maybe I'm misreading something but mine is going up to 10x zoom.
bp328i said:
Maybe I'm misreading something but mine is going up to 10x zoom.
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The optical zoom.
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Batfink33 said:
The optical zoom.
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Gotcha, I just tried again with the bottom camera covered and the zoom works right up to 3x, anything over 3x and it goes black.
I have the same problem, no optical zoom, but the main camera do a digital zoom.
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Here is a demo of the cam problem at 1:23 min
https://youtu.be/UHCS4iKEmYc
Mulitple things going on here. First off the camera switches between the normal camera cropped for 3x to the tele camera depending on the lighting condtions. You can test this yourself using different lighting conditions and your finger in front of the various lenses. Second, in order for the lenses to be 3x optical, the tele has to magnify 3x closer than another lens. All the reviews cry foul because the tele lens is about 2.2x optically stronger than the normal lens. It is however about 2.9x stronger than the wide angle lens.
So, everyone is arguing about what the optical zoom range is. My result is from my actual personal result testing output images from the cameras. In looking at this, I ignored cropping and varying MP of each camera. I believe the total zoom range of the system to be 3x.
This was out 3 days ago. They've already got responses from OnePlus. It's a 2.2x optical zoom. It's in the post processing that they crop the image to make it 3x. It is 3x lossless zoom actually. So it's just as sharp and no degradation of quality.
To me, the image quality is the same so it really doesn't matter much how they get it to 3x as long as it's lossless it's all good
Eric214 said:
So it's just as sharp and no degradation of quality.
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This made me smile as the photo quality is really extremely sub par, without using GCam that is,
Unless one is into water paintings, in that case this phone is a must have.
Pfeffernuss said:
This made me smile as the photo quality is really extremely sub par, without using GCam that is,
Unless one is into water paintings, in that case this phone is a must have.
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I never said it was tack sharp I just said the 3x tele is lossless from the crop. I know the 3x lens needs much improved post processing
Eric214 said:
This was out 3 days ago. They've already got responses from OnePlus. It's a 2.2x optical zoom. It's in the post processing that they crop the image to make it 3x. It is 3x lossless zoom actually. So it's just as sharp and no degradation of quality.
To me, the image quality is the same so it really doesn't matter much how they get it to 3x as long as it's lossless it's all good
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It is a bad design if 2.2x-2.9x zoom is digital crop
harysviewty said:
It is a bad design if 2.2x-2.9x zoom is digital crop
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Never said it wasn't. I said the crop is lossless . Lossless means from the 2.2x-3x not that is the same as a 3x optical
Eric214 said:
Never said it wasn't. I said the crop is lossless . Lossless means from the 2.2x-3x not that is the same as a 3x optical
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2.2-2.9x is not lossless if it uses digital zoom of primary lens. Even if the primary lens use the full resolution
harysviewty said:
2.2-2.9x is not lossless if it uses digital zoom of primary lens. Even if the primary lens use the full resolution
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You can but I don't have time or the energy to explain it to you.
The whole measure of "x times" zoom is marketing nonsense to begin with. All this means, is a ratio of that particular lens' longest focal length to its shortest focal length. It doesn't really mean much. For instance, my 70-200mm DSLR lens "only" has a 2.8x zoom. Yet the "reach" of this lens is so much greater than any smartphone, that it is comical to even compare the zoom this way!
This "spec" is only useful for folks that compare and buy things based on those specs (or companies to market to such people), instead of real world experiences. The phone takes some nice pictures, and happens to zoom and do some other useful things. That's all I really care about.
The zoom focal length is also not of much use without knowing the film or sensor size. It used to be that cameras all shot 35mm film and the focal range meant something. Today a 70mm lens is quite worthless shooting indoors compared to the wide angle on even the 7pro.
larsdennert said:
The zoom focal length is also not of much use without knowing the film or sensor size. It used to be that cameras all shot 35mm film and the focal range meant something.
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A full frame DSLR sensor measures 35mm. The focal lengths for full frame DSLR (and full frame mirrorless cameras) lenses still mean the same as they always have. Even on smaller sensors for "real cameras" the focal length is still meaningful, if you take crop factor into account.
The tiny sensors (around 4mm) on smartphones are a different animal. The focal length on these smartphone lenses are around 1-4mm. They often speak of "35mm equivalent" focal lengths when looking at camera specs. But it's a bit ridiculous. The fisheye affect is so drastic at such a focal length, that there really is no "35mm equivalent" not matter how small the sensor.
larsdennert said:
Today a 70mm lens is quite worthless shooting indoors compared to the wide angle on even the 7pro.
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That completely depends on your subject matter. I usually photograph people (face shots). The 70-200mm lens rarely leaves my camera, indoors or out. Many portrait photographers will tell you the same. 50-85mm is the minimum focal length considered acceptable for portraiture (not making a person's nose look huge, for example) by many photographers. Obviously, that range is too long a focal length for things like group shots, whole rooms (like you example) etc. But that is what interchangeable lenses are for.
Yep and since you can often swap full frame lenses into micro formats there is really no assumption that can be made other than the overall range of a lens.
It's ironic that selfie cameras are probably the worst equipped to shoot people. Smart of OnePlus to use the back tele lens for portrait. In effect the 7pro has interchangeable back lenses. Still not what my dslr or high end compact cameras deliver but impressive none the less.
Is there a way to get the Super Macro mode to work using the 5X lens?
On the P30, I can use the 3X zoom lens with super macro, but on the P30 pro, I can't and can use the 1X at best.
So the P30 can zoom in much further in super macro mode.
The best lens for super macro is the wide-angle
Super Macro is based on the ability of the camera to focus at a short distance - the way the 5x telephoto lens has been configured is with the aim of long-distance focus, so it physically cannot focus on something closer than a certain distance. I've not tested it myself, but believe it to be about 1m-1.5m away from the phone.
As above, though, the wide angle lens makes for the best Macro shots in my testing.