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Hello XDA Community,
I am interested in using the unofficial build of CyanogenMod 14.1 available here, but I would like to learn how to compile on my own from the repository provided by the developer. Unfortunately, I do not know how to go about doing this. Could someone please help me out? I have looked at the CyanogenMod Wiki entry for how to compile CyanogenMod for the Nexus 6, but the information is out of date according to what I was told in a post I made on Stack Exchange's Android Q&A site. The only thing that I understand about the build process is that I need to use Linux, so I have set up a virtual machine in VMware running the latest version of Ubuntu. Where do I go from here?
Thank you,
David B.
David B. said:
Hello XDA Community,
I am interested in using the unofficial build of CyanogenMod 14.1 available here, but I would like to learn how to compile on my own from the repository provided by the developer. Unfortunately, I do not know how to go about doing this. Could someone please help me out? I have looked at the CyanogenMod Wiki entry for how to compile CyanogenMod for the Nexus 6, but the information is out of date according to what I was told in a post I made on Stack Exchange's Android Q&A site. The only thing that I understand about the build process is that I need to use Linux, so I have set up a virtual machine in VMware running the latest version of Ubuntu. Where do I go from here?
Thank you,
David B.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest You will be better off dual booting. Compiling with a VM normally has more issues then not.
Then I would look at Google developer page.
Also keep in mind that compiling from CM means you get all the bugs they never fixed. You would be better off going with AOSP and then finding the features you want to add and then add them yourself.
zelendel said:
To be honest You will be better off dual booting. Compiling with a VM normally has more issues then not.
Then I would look at Google developer page.
Also keep in mind that compiling from CM means you get all the bugs they never fixed. You would be better off going with AOSP and then finding the features you want to add and then add them yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to build my own CyanogenMod based on AOSP and then merge in the features, but I don't even know how to build directly from AOSP.
Honestly, all I really want is stock with all of the additional developer mode features that CyanogenMod has along with root access. I love the ability to use root without extra apps, and wireless ADB is sweet when I'm too lazy to go get my USB cable. And of course, I want to be able to use future versions of Android on my phone even though 7.0.1 is supposed to be the last version for Shamu. Could I somehow merge those aspects together and just pull patches from AOSP, build, and flash?
Also what's wrong with using a VM to compile? I've read that problems occur if you don't have enough RAM allocated to the VM, but I've assigned it 16GB so that should not be a problem. As for attaching my phone to the VM, I am using VMware, which has better support for removable devices than VirtualBox.
I'm sorry if I misunderstand something you said. It's probably obvious, but I know pretty much nothing about what I am doing which means I'm likely to ask lots of questions that seem ridiculous to those that are well-versed in this sort of thing.
David B. said:
I would love to build my own CyanogenMod based on AOSP and then merge in the features, but I don't even know how to build directly from AOSP.
Honestly, all I really want is stock with all of the additional developer mode features that CyanogenMod has along with root access. I love the ability to use root without extra apps, and wireless ADB is sweet when I'm too lazy to go get my USB cable. And of course, I want to be able to use future versions of Android on my phone even though 7.0.1 is supposed to be the last version for Shamu. Could I somehow merge those aspects together and just pull patches from AOSP, build, and flash?
Also what's wrong with using a VM to compile? I've read that problems occur if you don't have enough RAM allocated to the VM, but I've assigned it 16GB so that should not be a problem. As for attaching my phone to the VM, I am using VMware, which has better support for removable devices than VirtualBox.
I'm sorry if I misunderstand something you said. It's probably obvious, but I know pretty much nothing about what I am doing which means I'm likely to ask lots of questions that seem ridiculous to those that are well-versed in this sort of thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that there is an app for SU built into CM right? So it is no extra apps then any other rom.
Could you yes but it will be lots of work due to what CM changes in the source code. It is one of the many reasons (on top of years old bugs that were never fixed) That many teams stopped using them as a source. The Shamu will be supported by 3rd party developers for a while to come.
Normally ram is an issue but other issues also happen.
I dont know anything about having to attach your device to VM as I have never used VM due to advise from the developers here.
Asking questions is not that big of a deal as long as you do your research. There are tons of TUT on the site about setting up a build setup. Just use the search and spend a few days reading. Mainly where the licenses are concerned. Also commit authorship. Which is you make your own rom it is very important.
zelendel said:
You do know that there is an app for SU built into CM right? So it is no extra apps then any other rom.
Could you yes but it will be lots of work due to what CM changes in the source code. It is one of the many reasons (on top of years old bugs that were never fixed) That many teams stopped using them as a source. The Shamu will be supported by 3rd party developers for a while to come.
Normally ram is an issue but other issues also happen.
I dont know anything about having to attach your device to VM as I have never used VM due to advise from the developers here.
Asking questions is not that big of a deal as long as you do your research. There are tons of TUT on the site about setting up a build setup. Just use the search and spend a few days reading. Mainly where the licenses are concerned. Also commit authorship. Which is you make your own rom it is very important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so I have done some research and have a solution for how to use root with stock Android, but as soon as stock Android support is dropped from the Nexus 6 I will have to compile it myself which I am not sure how to do and would like to learn. Do you have any suggestions for what to go to learn since everything I am finding is not about compiling, but is instead about using an existing build?
David B. said:
Okay, so I have done some research and have a solution for how to use root with stock Android, but as soon as stock Android support is dropped from the Nexus 6 I will have to compile it myself which I am not sure how to do and would like to learn. Do you have any suggestions for what to go to learn since everything I am finding is not about compiling, but is instead about using an existing build?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you go
https://source.android.com/source/initializing.html
Mind you getting root is more then adding an app for it. You will also have to do some kernel edits.
zelendel said:
Here you go
https://source.android.com/source/initializing.html
Mind you getting root is more then adding an app for it. You will also have to do some kernel edits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! I also found this. I have not really looked at it too much yet, but it seems like it has the potential to help me with what I want. Why would I need to make kernel edits? I thought all I needed to do was use TWRP to flash SuperSU after flashing the ROM.
David B. said:
Thanks! I also found this. I have not really looked at it too much yet, but it seems like it has the potential to help me with what I want. Why would I need to make kernel edits? I thought all I needed to do was use TWRP to flash SuperSU after flashing the ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SuperSU edits the kernel when you flash it. Most of what allows root is in the kernel.
Yes that is a great resource. Just take your time and read it. You could have a working set up and build in about 2 days (given the first sync of the source code could take more then 24 hours depending on your connection.
zelendel said:
SuperSU edits the kernel when you flash it. Most of what allows root is in the kernel.
Yes that is a great resource. Just take your time and read it. You could have a working set up and build in about 2 days (given the first sync of the source code could take more then 24 hours depending on your connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing that I still cannot figure out after all of this reading is what to do to get AOSP to build for devices that are not officially supported by it. Granted, this is not a problem for the Nexus 6 right now, but it will be eventually, and I want to know how to handle it when it does become an issue. I've started cloning the repository. My connection gets a top download speed of 60Mbps so it should be reasonably fast.
David B. said:
One thing that I still cannot figure out after all of this reading is what to do to get AOSP to build for devices that are not officially supported by it. Granted, this is not a problem for the Nexus 6 right now, but it will be eventually, and I want to know how to handle it when it does become an issue. I've started cloning the repository. My connection gets a top download speed of 60Mbps so it should be reasonably fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At that point you will need to know what you are doing as you will have to make the code changes to make it bootable. I hate to say it but the n6 maybe doa after this as anything after 7.1 will need dual partition setup which the n6 doesn't have
zelendel said:
At that point you will need to know what you are doing as you will have to make the code changes to make it bootable. I hate to say it but the n6 maybe doa after this as anything after 7.1 will need dual partition setup which the n6 doesn't have
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What's stopping the phone from being repartitioned in the same way you repartition a hard drive?
David B. said:
What's stopping the phone from being repartitioned in the same way you repartition a hard drive?
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The main issue is none of the software for the n6 are made to work with it. All the drivers have to be rewritten. Also all of the new Vulcan graphics drivers won't work on the n6. This is why it didn't get all the features of 7.0
zelendel said:
The main issue is none of the software for the n6 are made to work with it. All the drivers have to be rewritten. Also all of the new Vulcan graphics drivers won't work on the n6. This is why it didn't get all the features of 7.0
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Click to collapse
I had not heard of this before. I was researching it online a bit and I cannot figure out which features are missing from the Nexus 6 version of Nougat. Also, Nougat has to support older hardware for devices that don't support Vulkan, so there's no reason they can't do that for Android O, and it they don't, surely someone smarter than I will be able to hack it together.
David B. said:
I had not heard of this before. I was researching it online a bit and I cannot figure out which features are missing from the Nexus 6 version of Nougat. Also, Nougat has to support older hardware for devices that don't support Vulkan, so there's no reason they can't do that for Android O, and it they don't, surely someone smarter than I will be able to hack it together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing is android O will only be official supported by devices that can use it. Remember the nexus 6 support ended in October so there won't be an official O release for it.
Will there be a hacked together set up? Oh I'm sure there will be. It will just be without the Vulcan graphics drivers and the new update system which needs the dual partition layout.
The missing features are no background updates, no Vulcan drivers among other things
zelendel said:
That's the thing is android O will only be official supported by devices that can use it. Remember the nexus 6 support ended in October so there won't be an official O release for it.
Will there be a hacked together set up? Oh I'm sure there will be. It will just be without the Vulcan graphics drivers and the new update system which needs the dual partition layout.
The missing features are no background updates, no Vulcan drivers among other things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if the only things I lose are Vulkan and background updates, I am cool with that. It sounds like Vulkan is intended for games, and since I hate mobile gaming, an adapted build that works with the existing graphics drivers is not a concern at all. As for background updates, I would rather not have those because I like to know when my phone receives updates.
David B. said:
Well if the only things I lose are Vulkan and background updates, I am cool with that. It sounds like Vulkan is intended for games, and since I hate mobile gaming, an adapted build that works with the existing graphics drivers is not a concern at all. As for background updates, I would rather not have those because I like to know when my phone receives updates.
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Click to collapse
The Vulcan driver will be replacing the graphics drivers for everything soon. I can't think of much as I never use stock software.
zelendel said:
The Vulcan driver will be replacing the graphics drivers for everything soon. I can't think of much as I never use stock software.
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Click to collapse
I am sorry, but I am afraid I do not quite understand what it is that you said. What can't you think of?
David B. said:
I am sorry, but I am afraid I do not quite understand what it is that you said. What can't you think of?
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Click to collapse
There were many features that came with 7.0 like the new advanced doze and some other stuff. I dont use stock software and to be honest most of the stuff from 7.0 wasnt even really worth the update to me.
I have had a nexus since day 1 on and off and this was the first time I wasnt excited about the update. Even less with the new updates coming and google locking android down more as well as them moving most of the new stuff to closed sourced stuff. Heck even just having the bootloader unlocked is causing things not to work.
zelendel said:
There were many features that came with 7.0 like the new advanced doze and some other stuff. I dont use stock software and to be honest most of the stuff from 7.0 wasnt even really worth the update to me.
I have had a nexus since day 1 on and off and this was the first time I wasnt excited about the update. Even less with the new updates coming and google locking android down more as well as them moving most of the new stuff to closed sourced stuff. Heck even just having the bootloader unlocked is causing things not to work.
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Really? What doesn't work with the unlocked bootloader?
David B. said:
Really? What doesn't work with the unlocked bootloader?
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Click to collapse
Things like android pay and saftynet. They are now starting to look for unlocked bootloaders. then you have those that are blocking apps due to root or xposed.
I know that 7.1.2 on the Nexus 6 is not supported by Google, but anyone know if any of the developers tried incorporating based on the AOSP 7.1.2 chain?
You realize those are preview builds for the other devices right? Code isn't pushed to AOSP yet AFAIK. I think the highest is 7.1.1_r22
edit: maybe it is? https://android.googlesource.com/platform/system/core/+/android-n-mr2-preview-1
Not worth trying at the moment. The source will change from preview to the final build. It's better to wait until the final build gets pushed out and the full source code reaches aosp. In other words, patience, young grasshopper. We will get custom Roms based on 7.1.2 ?
Arju said:
Not worth trying at the moment. The source will change from preview to the final build. It's better to wait until the final build gets pushed out and the full source code reaches aosp. In other words, patience, young grasshopper. We will get custom Roms based on 7.1.2
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Click to collapse
Thanks gentlemen! I understand you want to base on the final build to hopefully get rid of most of the bugs..
and the big improvements between 7.1.1 and 7.1.2 are what?
Personally I think we all get too excited by these updates. Me, I struggle to see the major differences between Kitkat and 7.1.1 (I'm pretty unobservant, but hey, it's just a communication/entertainment device, yeah?) so although I look forward to playing with the new version I raraly see any killer difference. Android, to my eyes, is about as advanced as it can get until it can actually give me a backrub and a cup of fresh-brewed coffee in the morning. I'm not holding my breath...
dahawthorne said:
Personally I think we all get too excited by these updates. Me, I struggle to see the major differences between Kitkat and 7.1.1 (I'm pretty unobservant, but hey, it's just a communication/entertainment device, yeah?) so although I look forward to playing with the new version I raraly see any killer difference. Android, to my eyes, is about as advanced as it can get until it can actually give me a backrub and a cup of fresh-brewed coffee in the morning. I'm not holding my breath...
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Click to collapse
Are you also blind? Because Kitkat and Nougat are miles apart.
I'm short-sighted. No need to be offensive.
Examples? I can play videos, talk to people, text. What major (and I mean major) differences are there then? It's a phone and communications device. Kitkat did that. Nougat is just icing.
Go on, justify your statement rather than just being offended and offensive.
@admiralspeedy: No, @dahawthorne is right in that the changes in Android recently have been more evolutionary than revolutionary. The last really significant change in Android was switching from Dalvik to ART, which was experimental in Android 4.4.x and enabled in Android 5.x. and up.
Note that Material Design isn't a significant change, and neither is SEAndroid enforcement.
Strephon Alkhalikoi said:
@admiralspeedy: No, @dahawthorne is right in that the changes in Android recently have been more evolutionary than revolutionary. The last really significant change in Android was switching from Dalvik to ART, which was experimental in Android 4.4.x and enabled in Android 5.x. and up.
Note that Material Design isn't a significant change, and neither is SEAndroid enforcement.
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Click to collapse
Everything can't be "revolutionary" and being evolutionary hardly means that there are very few big changes. KitKat is the last iteration of Android to use the Holo theme and now through Lollipop, Marshmallow and Nougat we've had several major improvements to the entire Android interface through material design. The interface changes alone are enough to consider KitKat and anything newer, vastly different. You also mentioned Dalvik to ART, which is a huge change, but you failed to mention proper 64-bit support (beginning with Lollipop), more customization (such as the notification tray toggles), native multi-window, the official fingerprint API, and when the next iteration is released, KitKat will probably be dropped from security patches unless a ton of people are still hanging on to it.
Really the list goes on but I think it's quite ridiculous to say that the evolutionary changes made from KitKat to Nougat are hardly substantial.
But @dahawthorne never said there were no significant changes. All he said is he couldn't see them. As for what you've listed, nothing there is truly significant, not even 64-bit computing. That's not to say they're not welcome or anything like that, but Dalvik to ART is significant because it fundamentally changed how Android worked under the hood.
P. S. Calling other posters blind because you can't see their point? Ironic.
admiralspeedy said:
Everything can't be "revolutionary" and being evolutionary hardly means that there are very few big changes. KitKat is the last iteration of Android to use the Holo theme and now through Lollipop, Marshmallow and Nougat we've had several major improvements to the entire Android interface through material design. The interface changes alone are enough to consider KitKat and anything newer, vastly different. You also mentioned Dalvik to ART, which is a huge change, but you failed to mention proper 64-bit support (beginning with Lollipop), more customization (such as the notification tray toggles), native multi-window, the official fingerprint API, and when the next iteration is released, KitKat will probably be dropped from security patches unless a ton of people are still hanging on to it.
Really the list goes on but I think it's quite ridiculous to say that the evolutionary changes made from KitKat to Nougat are hardly substantial.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that my point would be best-illustrated by handing two phones (Kitkat & Nougat) to a "normal" user (i.e. non-XDA person interested in using the phone and uninterested in the technology). I can easily imagine the scenario because I'm married to one. She might say that the new icons look nice, and the design is easy on the eye. Dalvik/ART? Couldn't care less. 64-bit? Even *I* couldn't care less. Multi-window? Impractical even on my N6's large screen, and effectively a tech showpiece, a solution looking for a problem. My N6 and my wife's N5 don't have a fingerprint reader, and in any case that's more of a hardware feature requiring software rather than a software feature in its own right. And persuading her to let me install new security versions is like pulling teeth.
I therefore stand full-square behind my original "little difference" statement, because to the "normal" user that's exactly the case.
this thread actually is about differences between 7.11 and 7.12
and, whether you think there are major differences between lollipop, kitkat and nougat, I think we ALL can agree that the differences between a 7.11 os and a 7.12 os will hardly be worth anyone's time to get excited about.
maybe when it moves to 8.0 it will be significant, but a one dot move in ANY OS generally means absolutely nothing
dahawthorne said:
I think that my point would be best-illustrated by handing two phones (Kitkat & Nougat) to a "normal" user (i.e. non-XDA person interested in using the phone and uninterested in the technology). I can easily imagine the scenario because I'm married to one. She might say that the new icons look nice, and the design is easy on the eye. Dalvik/ART? Couldn't care less. 64-bit? Even *I* couldn't care less. Multi-window? Impractical even on my N6's large screen, and effectively a tech showpiece, a solution looking for a problem. My N6 and my wife's N5 don't have a fingerprint reader, and in any case that's more of a hardware feature requiring software rather than a software feature in its own right. And persuading her to let me install new security versions is like pulling teeth.
I therefore stand full-square behind my original "little difference" statement, because to the "normal" user that's exactly the case.
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Click to collapse
Agreed. The average person couldn't care less or even really tell a difference. My gf is the same way. She doesn't even Ike doing the monthly security updates to the point she made disable it lol. As long as it makes calls, texts, Facebook and a few websites then she is happy.
wase4711 said:
this thread actually is about differences between 7.11 and 7.12
and, whether you think there are major differences between lollipop, kitkat and nougat, I think we ALL can agree that the differences between a 7.11 os and a 7.12 os will hardly be worth anyone's time to get excited about.
maybe when it moves to 8.0 it will be significant, but a one dot move in ANY OS generally means absolutely nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
l2tp protocol should be fixed in 7.1..2 according to issue #196939. it is something i was waiting for almost two years.
never heard of that, never read about that, have no clue about that, and you wont find any discussion about it on XDA, so, its not an issue that is at the forefront in anyone I knows mind...
wase4711 said:
never heard of that, never read about that, have no clue about that, and you wont find any discussion about it on XDA, so, its not an issue that is at the forefront in anyone I knows mind...
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Click to collapse
This is true that you are not seeing talks about it but just because you dont see anything said about it on XDA doesnt mean it is not in the forfront of anyones mind.
Talks like that really arent dont in the threads anymore but in private chats. 99% of any real development talks are done away from users these days.
As for 7.1.2 this will start to get really hard as this is when 32bit support dies and all of Google code is for 64 bit chips. Developers are already starting to see the change over and soo it will be true death for 32 bit devices. As porting it backwards is almost not conceivable.
To be honest, 32-bit supports won't go away, in fact it's required. Why? ARM Cortex A35 and A7 CPUs which will be here to stay, even though it's obviously true that industry and ROM developers are moving to 64-bit support (ie. AARCH64 AKA ARM64 mode) - ie. Cortex A53 and up to A73, the 32-bit ARM processors will still be used for many years to come, obviously for embedded battery life reasons, like Android Wear.
Otherwise, Nexus 6 will be my last 32-bit device (I know Android Oreo will still come onto Nexus 6 via Lineage OS, obviously because it will still support 32-bit mode for some reasons - Android Wear is based on full-blown Android OS, so if you remove 32-bit mode support, you risk breaking the watch ecosystem). I am kind of torn between ASUS ZenFone AR or Pixel 2. Hard choice.
Dr. Mario said:
To be honest, 32-bit supports won't go away, in fact it's required. Why? ARM Cortex A35 and A7 CPUs which will be here to stay, even though it's obviously true that industry and ROM developers are moving to 64-bit support (ie. AARCH64 AKA ARM64 mode) - ie. Cortex A53 and up to A73, the 32-bit ARM processors will still be used for many years to come, obviously for embedded battery life reasons, like Android Wear.
Otherwise, Nexus 6 will be my last 32-bit device (I know Android Oreo will still come onto Nexus 6 via Lineage OS, obviously because it will still support 32-bit mode for some reasons - Android Wear is based on full-blown Android OS, so if you remove 32-bit mode support, you risk breaking the watch ecosystem). I am kind of torn between ASUS ZenFone AR or Pixel 2. Hard choice.
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Click to collapse
Just because those chips are here doesnt mean the OS has to support it. Plus with the adaption rate of devices, by the time that it would matter 99% of devices will already being running a 64 bit chip.
Look at it this way. Google only works on code for their base devices. All 64bit.
As of LOS. If they dont have a base to work from then it will be very hard indeed.
They will not risk that. It is already in the works if you think about it. Only the n6 is a 32bit device that google supports. So they already have it setup for 64bit to work with the watch.
If you watch google source code you will see the transition.
True, but who knows, as of now? Google occasionally pull the surprises (I don't trust commit notes from certain companies such as Google, they occasionally put too much eggs into a basket - recent Nexus and Pixel muck-ups proves that), so it's possible they would either continue with transition or just cancel it and stick with hybrid builds. It's now more of a wait and see thing.
Now that Android O developer preview has dropped. I feel like the devs should drop working on 7.1.2 and just go straight to Android O when they create an AOSP branch on it. Any devs planning on doing that?
That will almost be impossible as with 7.1.2 Android O will be 64 bit. Porting back to our 32 bit device will be next to impossible
zelendel said:
That will almost be impossible as with 7.1.2 Android O will be 64 bit. Porting back to our 32 bit device will be next to impossible
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Click to collapse
Ok, so what's next, after 7.1.1 in AOSP for our Shamu? Nothing?
gothy.gothy said:
Ok, so what's next, after 7.1.1 in AOSP for our Shamu? Nothing?
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Click to collapse
Android O is only in Dev preview stage. The code is bound to change and the full code is not there for us to compile. So if anyone actually are going to try then they are going to build a messy hacked build and have to start all over again when next preview comes. Best is to wait until Android O launched at fall when the final code gets pushed to aosp and that's the right time for developers to work on Android O for our Shamus. In short, now is not the right time.
gothy.gothy said:
Ok, so what's next, after 7.1.1 in AOSP for our Shamu? Nothing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one is sure. It very well maybe the last AOSP we see. It will still be worked on i am sure but I doubt we will see anything past it for the shamu. This is why many devs have moved to other devices like the 6p or the 3t.
Arju said:
Android O is only in Dev preview stage. The code is bound to change and the full code is not there for us to compile. So if anyone actually are going to try then they are going to build a messy hacked build and have to start all over again when next preview comes. Best is to wait until Android O launched at fall when the final code gets pushed to aosp and that's the right time for developers to work on Android O for our Shamus. In short, now is not the right time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, not about the time I asked, but the possibility to have Android O, doesn't matter when.
I asked what will be after 7.1.1.
---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 PM ----------
zelendel said:
No one is sure. It very well maybe the last AOSP we see. It will still be worked on i am sure but I doubt we will see anything past it for the shamu. This is why many devs have moved to other devices like the 6p or the 3t.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it is a pity, because it's a very good device!
@gothy.gothy We will probably see Android O through the unofficial route and I'm sure the Nexus 6 will live to see another year, but further than that it's hard to predict. Zelendel is right that it will only get harder and harder by time and when apps only starts supporting 64bit and looses support for 32bit then we're out of the game. We might get a sloppy hack of a build but loose app support in future major updates after Android O. So the best would be to move to a device that runs 64bit.
rester555 said:
Now that Android O developer preview has dropped. I feel like the devs should drop working on 7.1.2 and just go straight to Android O when they create an AOSP branch on it. Any devs planning on doing that?
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Click to collapse
No developers are "working" on 7.1.2 (except maybe a few brave kernel developers), because the source isn't pushed to AOSP until the final release.
zelendel said:
That will almost be impossible as with 7.1.2 Android O will be 64 bit. Porting back to our 32 bit device will be next to impossible
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Click to collapse
I don't mean to start a flame war, but this just isn't right. There has been no effort to "remove" 32-bit support. In fact, the Nexus Player is still a 32-bit device (albeit x86) which is supported by O, it may be 64-bit hardware, but due to proprietary firmware, they decided to have the 2nd-stage bootloader, and kernel/user-space boot in 32-bit mode. It has the O preview out now. Plus the 32-bit toolchains still get active support, and even 64-bit devices (i.e. angler/marlin) run some amount of arm(32) code in the form of their proprietary firmware/libraries, so we'll always need the ability to run 32-bit code on Android, and therefore, not stripping 32-bit compatibility from Android.
Also, there haven't been any specific moves by Google in terms of AOSP source away from 32-bit support.
gothy.gothy said:
Ok, so what's next, after 7.1.1 in AOSP for our Shamu? Nothing?
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Click to collapse
I'd bet just about any amount of money the Nexus 6 will see O once source drops.
zelendel said:
No one is sure. It very well maybe the last AOSP we see. It will still be worked on i am sure but I doubt we will see anything past it for the shamu. This is why many devs have moved to other devices like the 6p or the 3t.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would O be the last AOSP we see? Android is mostly licensed under GPLv3, so they have to release source (that compiles) for the large majority of android. If you're refereeing to the fushcia OS they are creating, according to git logs, it is to be used on intergrated system's, as the kernel they wrote is very minimal.
My apologies gentlemen, I thought that AOSP was pushed on each developer preview. I didn't realize that it doesn't hit the AOSP Branch until the final build.
rester555 said:
My apologies gentlemen, I thought that AOSP was pushed on each developer preview. I didn't realize that it doesn't hit the AOSP Branch until the final build.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hence why you look silly putting up this thread...
npjohnson said:
No developers are "working" on 7.1.2 (except maybe a few brave kernel developers), because the source isn't pushed to AOSP until the final release.
I don't mean to start a flame war, but this just isn't right. There has been no effort to "remove" 32-bit support. In fact, the Nexus Player is still a 32-bit device (albeit x86) which is supported by O, it may be 64-bit hardware, but due to proprietary firmware, they decided to have the 2nd-stage bootloader, and kernel/user-space boot in 32-bit mode. It has the O preview out now. Plus the 32-bit toolchains still get active support, and even 64-bit devices (i.e. angler/marlin) run some amount of arm(32) code in the form of their proprietary firmware/libraries, so we'll always need the ability to run 32-bit code on Android, and therefore, not stripping 32-bit compatibility from Android.
Also, there haven't been any specific moves by Google in terms of AOSP source away from 32-bit support.
I'd bet just about any amount of money the Nexus 6 will see O once source drops.
Why would O be the last AOSP we see? Android is mostly licensed under GPLv3, so they have to release source (that compiles) for the large majority of android. If you're refereeing to the fushcia OS they are creating, according to git logs, it is to be used on intergrated system's, as the kernel they wrote is very minimal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is where you are mistaken. Android isn't under the GPL. Only the kernel is. Android is under the apache license. Google doesn't have to push any code for Android at all. They could completely stop. Or keep doing what they started with the 6p and that is make the system files like system ui closed sourced.
You really have not been paying attention much. Just look at the last issues the nexus had with the updates. Not to mention not getting all of the stuff in the update that the 62 bit devices got.
zelendel said:
This is where you are mistaken. Android isn't under the GPL. Only the kernel is. Android is under the apache license.
You really have not been paying attention much. Just look at the last issues the nexus had with the updates. Not to mention not getting all of the stuff in the update that the 62 bit devices got.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apologies for the typo there. GPLv3 (which requires source release) ==> Apache (which does not). As you noted though, kernel sources are GPLv3.
I really have been paying attention though. I too wondered why the Nexus 6 didn't get Nougat as quickly, and why the 6P's 7.1.2 updates were delayed. If you do some static disassembly/analysis on the Nexus 6's proprietary blobs (in specific, take a look at the prebuilt qcom binaries, like qmuxd and mm-qcamera and the date they were signed), you can deduce that the reason we saw a delayed 7.1.1 (and 7.0 for that matter) on the Nexus 6 was because QCOM either had issues with the specific hardware peripherals related, or just wasn't keen on working on them. An issue that isn't strictly related to 32-bit support, because we saw the same exact issue with Angler on the initial 7.1.2 Beta release (some blobs which are pre-signed being dated barely before the build date). Plus the Nexus 6 itself was never intended to be a Nexus phone. In an interview with one of the Engineer's who worked on the Nexus 6, they stated that there initially was another manufacturer who backed out last minute, forcing them to use the Moto X Pro shell that shipped in China (the hardware is identical + an IR sensor for Moto Display), so Google hasn't ever been to keen on the Nexus 6.
And, what are you referring to that 64-bit devices got that the Nexus 6 didn't? Other than some of the gestures, I don't see it. The 6, 6P, and 5x all got Assistant (well, everyone did), with 7.1.1, they all got gesture support (the 6 is missing one, I think double-tap to wake? And that's because it never worked reliably on the 6's display panel without significant battery repercussions). None of the Nexus series devices got Pixel Launcher (officially at least), but they're all capable of side-loading it (i.e. no 64-bit only libraries), and none of the Nexus series got the Pixel style navigation bar, but I suppose those two could be written off as 'Pixel Exclusives', and are 32-bit agnostic anyway.
One more shining example of 32-bit getting updates just fine is the Android One program, which contains a boatload of currently supported devices (many of which are expected to get O), many of which are not only 32-bit, but MediaTek powered (unrelated, but still interesting).
npjohnson said:
Apologies for the typo there. GPLv3 (which requires source release) ==> Apache (which does not). As you noted though, kernel sources are GPLv3.
I really have been paying attention though. I too wondered why the Nexus 6 didn't get Nougat as quickly, and why the 6P's 7.1.2 updates were delayed. If you do some static disassembly/analysis on the Nexus 6's proprietary blobs (in specific, take a look at the prebuilt qcom binaries, like qmuxd and mm-qcamera and the date they were signed), you can deduce that the reason we saw a delayed 7.1.1 (and 7.0 for that matter) on the Nexus 6 was because QCOM either had issues with the specific hardware peripherals related, or just wasn't keen on working on them. An issue that isn't strictly related to 32-bit support, because we saw the same exact issue with Angler on the initial 7.1.2 Beta release (some blobs which are pre-signed being dated barely before the build date). Plus the Nexus 6 itself was never intended to be a Nexus phone. In an interview with one of the Engineer's who worked on the Nexus 6, they stated that there initially was another manufacturer who backed out last minute, forcing them to use the Moto X Pro shell that shipped in China (the hardware is identical + an IR sensor for Moto Display), so Google hasn't ever been to keen on the Nexus 6.
And, what are you referring to that 64-bit devices got that the Nexus 6 didn't? Other than some of the gestures, I don't see it. The 6, 6P, and 5x all got Assistant (well, everyone did), with 7.1.1, they all got gesture support (the 6 is missing one, I think double-tap to wake? And that's because it never worked reliably on the 6's display panel without significant battery repercussions). None of the Nexus series devices got Pixel Launcher (officially at least), but they're all capable of side-loading it (i.e. no 64-bit only libraries), and none of the Nexus series got the Pixel style navigation bar, but I suppose those two could be written off as 'Pixel Exclusives', and are 32-bit agnostic anyway.
One more shining example of 32-bit getting updates just fine is the Android One program, which contains a boatload of currently supported devices (many of which are expected to get O), many of which are not only 32-bit, but MediaTek powered (unrelated, but still interesting).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you look close at the one program, it was an epic fail. They seldom see an update. MTK bweing the main reason they dont get updates. Just ask anyone where andoid one is even sold. Many never even saw a single update.
If you look at the official software that was pushed (not what was pushed to AOSP as they are different) to the pixel you will notice things like the system ui being different as google now closed alot of that off.
Delayed/. You mean delayed, pushed, pulled and then reuploaded. Even with things still broken on the n6. I mean even the latest update for it disabled saftynet checks for the nexus 6 as a workaround for the changes in the code that didnt convert properly from 64bit to 32bit.
You have to understand that google doesnt care about anything older. All they are worring about is the pixel line now.
rignfool said:
Hence why you look silly putting up this thread...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think I look silly at all. Based on the conversation on the thread. I think it was a good discussion.
It's still possible for Nexus 6 to see Android 8.0 but it's now more of a chicken and egg issues. As for Android 7.1.2, I am sure it's still officially a hybrid build as well. All we can do is wait and see what's in Android 8.0 Oreo source code this early winter.
As for Nexus player, I doubt they locked Long Mode out of firmware, it's impossible because the kernel can call the stack register required for a jump from Protected Mode (32-bit) into Long Mode (64-bit) directly, no matter what (yes, even in MS-DOS). It's up to Google to decide if Nexus Player stay in 32-bit mode - I bet Android 8.0 will allow it to enter Long Mode this time, with the Long Mode option enabled in Linux kernel - only CPU-Z app will tell you whether it's running in 64-bit mode.
we believe in great developers like in lineageOS they are still supporting nexus 4 and nexus 5 without any problems with regularly updates , but if android o is 64 bit that will be the pain
Dr. Mario said:
It's still possible for Nexus 6 to see Android 8.0 but it's now more of a chicken and egg issues. As for Android 7.1.2, I am sure it's still officially a hybrid build as well. All we can do is wait and see what's in Android 8.0 Oreo source code this early winter.
As for Nexus player, I doubt they locked Long Mode out of firmware, it's impossible because the kernel can call the stack register required for a jump from Protected Mode (32-bit) into Long Mode (64-bit) directly, no matter what (yes, even in MS-DOS). It's up to Google to decide if Nexus Player stay in 32-bit mode - I bet Android 8.0 will allow it to enter Long Mode this time, with the Long Mode option enabled in Linux kernel - only CPU-Z app will tell you whether it's running in 64-bit mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish this was right, but the 2-nd Stage Bootloader (a LittleKernel derivative) runs in strictly 32-bit mode, and we are unable to load any 64-bit kernel's, plus, several device firmwares for the Nexus Player (as provided by Intel) are strictly 32-bit, and don't work in 64-bit contexts.
zelendel said:
If you look close at the one program, it was an epic fail. They seldom see an update. MTK bweing the main reason they dont get updates. Just ask anyone where andoid one is even sold. Many never even saw a single update.
If you look at the official software that was pushed (not what was pushed to AOSP as they are different) to the pixel you will notice things like the system ui being different as google now closed alot of that off.
Delayed/. You mean delayed, pushed, pulled and then reuploaded. Even with things still broken on the n6. I mean even the latest update for it disabled saftynet checks for the nexus 6 as a workaround for the changes in the code that didnt convert properly from 64bit to 32bit.
You have to understand that google doesnt care about anything older. All they are worring about is the pixel line now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several of the One program's phones like, seed, seed2, general mobile 4g, have all not only been hosted on Google's factory image page, and some even got updates much faster than the Nexus 6 did (comical, and ridiculous I agree, but 32-bit non-the-less).
And, with the Pixel's I would agree that Google close sources several app (SystemUI, Frameworks-res, etc.) but it is worth questioning a few things:
1) If they'd given the Nexus's those apps, don't you suppose there'd be some backlash from owners who bought the phone because of its open source nature? The Pixel's made no promise of that.
2) Are the small features they contain even worth it? A blue color scheme (when the old teal is arguably more visually appealing), circular icons (which many hate), and a Night Light Overlay (this is useful, but requires a new hardwarecomposer setup that the 6P just doesn't have, and all the 3rd party/flashable solutions fall back to using a GL shader and the device's battery/performance takes a noticeable compared to the Pixels implementation).
And, as for the SafetyNet check disabling, though Android Police said that, there is literally no proof. The check tokens are still sent, and verified server side, and if you're rooted, the device still fails the authentication. AP threw out some unsubstantiated information. No deivce side-change was needed on the Nexus 6, so they re-uploaded the same factory image, and made a server side change. And nowhere was anything said about it being 64 ==> 32-bit code incompatibility. Do you have any source on that?
npjohnson said:
Well, I wish this was right, but the 2-nd Stage Bootloader (a LittleKernel derivative) runs in strictly 32-bit mode, and we are unable to load any 64-bit kernel's, plus, several device firmwares for the Nexus Player (as provided by Intel) are strictly 32-bit, and don't work in 64-bit contexts.
Several of the One program's phones like, seed, seed2, general mobile 4g, have all not only been hosted on Google's factory image page, and some even got updates much faster than the Nexus 6 did (comical, and ridiculous I agree, but 32-bit non-the-less).
And, with the Pixel's I would agree that Google close sources several app (SystemUI, Frameworks-res, etc.) but it is worth questioning a few things:
1) If they'd given the Nexus's those apps, don't you suppose there'd be some backlash from owners who bought the phone because of its open source nature? The Pixel's made no promise of that.
2) Are the small features they contain even worth it? A blue color scheme (when the old teal is arguably more visually appealing), circular icons (which many hate), and a Night Light Overlay (this is useful, but requires a new hardwarecomposer setup that the 6P just doesn't have, and all the 3rd party/flashable solutions fall back to using a GL shader and the device's battery/performance takes a noticeable compared to the Pixels implementation).
And, as for the SafetyNet check disabling, though Android Police said that, there is literally no proof. The check tokens are still sent, and verified server side, and if you're rooted, the device still fails the authentication. AP threw out some unsubstantiated information. No deivce side-change was needed on the Nexus 6, so they re-uploaded the same factory image, and made a server side change. And nowhere was anything said about it being 64 ==> 32-bit code incompatibility. Do you have any source on that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People these days aways looking for proof when info like this can't be shared openly nor can sources. You would be amazed at things talked about in development chats that don't make it to the users.
Just sit back and watch. I like most other developers have already decided to leave the N6 and get newer devices. When asked about it they already said they will not be converting any 64bit code at all. So anything that is coded for 64 bit devices then the N6 will never see it.
At least I have two agendas on hand; 1. I am already planning on buying the next Nexus (Pixel 2) or similar phone with Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 SOC whose bootloader remain user-unlockable and usable on Verizon network (I absolutely hate Verizon's locked bootloader policy). 2. There's other options, like Ubuntu Touch.
npjohnson said:
No developers are "working" on 7.1.2 (except maybe a few brave kernel developers), because the source isn't pushed to AOSP until the final release.
I don't mean to start a flame war, but this just isn't right. There has been no effort to "remove" 32-bit support. In fact, the Nexus Player is still a 32-bit device (albeit x86) which is supported by O, it may be 64-bit hardware, but due to proprietary firmware, they decided to have the 2nd-stage bootloader, and kernel/user-space boot in 32-bit mode. It has the O preview out now. Plus the 32-bit toolchains still get active support, and even 64-bit devices (i.e. angler/marlin) run some amount of arm(32) code in the form of their proprietary firmware/libraries, so we'll always need the ability to run 32-bit code on Android, and therefore, not stripping 32-bit compatibility from Android.
Also, there haven't been any specific moves by Google in terms of AOSP source away from 32-bit support.
I'd bet just about any amount of money the Nexus 6 will see O once source drops.
Why would O be the last AOSP we see? Android is mostly licensed under GPLv3, so they have to release source (that compiles) for the large majority of android. If you're refereeing to the fushcia OS they are creating, according to git logs, it is to be used on intergrated system's, as the kernel they wrote is very minimal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure hope to see Android O on our Shamu! Fingers crossed we'll start to slowly see ROMs after official release and AOSP! Hope it's possible!
---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 PM ----------
rester555 said:
I don't think I look silly at all. Based on the conversation on the thread. I think it was a good discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no such thing as a dumb question, how else does one learn? :angel:
So today Motorola India launched a new variant of X4 in India. Bumping the RAM from 3 & 4 GB to 6GB with same 64GB storage.
The main highlight is the phone comes with Oreo out of box and it supports Treble..
Now see what Motorola has to say about new X4 Variant -
There don't seem to be any other differences but the RAM amount, and the fact that the handset ships with Oreo by default. Motorola does say that there are a few interface tweaks pertinent to the fresh X4, but the other models will eventually get them, too. After that the key difference will be the extra 2GB of RAM.
So what is Motorola is talking here abt that the older models will eventually get it..? Is it the treble support.?
If they don't enable treble on the original moto x4, they will be loosing out on many potential customers who care about the latest updates and ROMs. I think that not enabling treble will be a huge mistake on Motorola's part. I'm also starting to get annoyed with the huge market catering to India...
Honestly, I think there's 0 chance it will happen, sorry.
Do you guys think its possible to flash the stock rom from a new moto x4 to an old one ? That could be a way to enable treble for the "old" devices
harry_martini said:
Do you guys think its possible to flash the stock rom from a new moto x4 to an old one ? That could be a way to enable treble for the "old" devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am curious to take a look at the firmware from this device. Does anyone have it?
No one should hold their breath for a "Treble Update" from Motorola... it may require repartitioning the device and doing that via OTA would be quite a challenge and be too risky for them.
That said, I would still like to see the vendor/HAL implementation, and especially check out partitioning. From an efficiency/cost standpoint it would be surprising to see any major differences in structure since that would require Motorola to have a dev team just for one new variant.
But even if the devices are identical that does not mean we could simply flash the Treble firmware. There would seem to be an intermediate step that would require partitioning. It may be beyond the scope of our existing tools. These may be changes that could only be made with Motorola proprietary software.
But an interesting development, nonetheless...
Just did a little reading, and it seems that the hardware IS different than the original X4...specifically the SoC which is SDM636 running custom Kyro architecture vs. our SDM630
mightysween said:
Just did a little reading, and it seems that the hardware IS different than the original X4...specifically the SoC which is SDM636 running custom Kyro architecture vs. our SDM630
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where did u read that..?
The only difference is extra 2gb ram and Oreo out of box.
here is the product page, check for yourself..
https://www.flipkart.com/moto-x4-super-black-64-gb/p/itmez9u3cgg9zfy2?pid=MOBFF6GGPJYKGQCK&sattr=color&sattr=storage&sattr=ram&st=ram
Jithin91 said:
where did u read that..?
The only difference is extra 2gb ram and Oreo out of box.
here is the product page, check for yourself..
https://www.flipkart.com/moto-x4-su...CK&sattr=color&sattr=storage&sattr=ram&st=ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read it here on XDA
https://www.xda-developers.com/new-motorola-moto-x4-variant-india-february-1/
mightysween said:
Read it here on XDA
https://www.xda-developers.com/new-motorola-moto-x4-variant-india-february-1/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it was a rumour. x4 6gb version is still having sdm630.
kraatus90 said:
it was a rumour. x4 6gb version is still having sdm630.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent... can't wait to see under the hood
I don't think so, but it IS possible.
When Oreo came out, it was important for Motorola to update their phones quickly to Oreo;
in order to look good compared to other brands.
Implementing Treble would take more time; but once implemented would make it easier for them to provide faster security updates in the future.
So it's a possibility that the next security update in january or february, may include Treble.
The moto X4 is due to receive Security updates until April 2019, so Treble might make sense to Motorola.
But there's definately no way to know for sure.
But isn't 6 GB just a variant of Moto x4, so probably it also doesn't have project treble enabled.
Jithin91 said:
So today Motorola India launched a new variant of X4 in India. Bumping the RAM from 3 & 4 GB to 6GB with same 64GB storage.
The main highlight is the phone comes with Oreo out of box and it supports Treble..
Now see what Motorola has to say about new X4 Variant -
There don't seem to be any other differences but the RAM amount, and the fact that the handset ships with Oreo by default. Motorola does say that there are a few interface tweaks pertinent to the fresh X4, but the other models will eventually get them, too. After that the key difference will be the extra 2GB of RAM.
So what is Motorola is talking here abt that the older models will eventually get it..? Is it the treble support.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also sad seeing such slow development on X4 not much roms, not official or unofficial treble support!, still being Android one device is so sad and bad!
---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
mightysween said:
I am curious to take a look at the firmware from this device. Does anyone have it?
No one should hold their breath for a "Treble Update" from Motorola... it may require repartitioning the device and doing that via OTA would be quite a challenge and be too risky for them.
That said, I would still like to see the vendor/HAL implementation, and especially check out partitioning. From an efficiency/cost standpoint it would be surprising to see any major differences in structure since that would require Motorola to have a dev team just for one new variant.
But even if the devices are identical that does not mean we could simply flash the Treble firmware. There would seem to be an intermediate step that would require partitioning. It may be beyond the scope of our existing tools. These may be changes that could only be made with Motorola proprietary software.
But an interesting development, nonetheless...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am very sad seeing such slow development on X4 not much roms, not official or unofficial treble support!, still being Android one device is so sad and bad!
The slow development is because of the A/B partition scheme, if you look other phones that uses the same partition system it'll be the same, it's Google "fault".
Last I checked, all devices running Oreo have to have Treble. That is why everyone was mad at HTC for shipping new phones with Nougat.It especially makes sense for the Android One variant because the have to get timely updates out, which they have. It would be off for the 6gb to have it and no others because Google requires every
So far 64 bit only has been a huge disappoint as a new Pixel user. Not something I expected when I pre-ordered the phone and traded in my old phone to upgrade. Already found several apps that I can no longer use.
I have never rooted or installed a custom ROM before, but now with the 32 bit issue I am looking into it for the first time. Since I read a few posts that this is not an A13 issue, but rather specific to the version of A13 on the Pixel could alternative ROMs provide the ability to install 32 bit apps?
thegunisgood said:
So far 64 bit only has been a huge disappoint as a new Pixel user. Not something I expected when I pre-ordered the phone and traded in my old phone to upgrade. Already found several apps that I can no longer use.
I have never rooted or installed a custom ROM before, but now with the 32 bit issue I am looking into it for the first time. Since I read a few posts that this is not an A13 issue, but rather specific to the version of A13 on the Pixel could alternative ROMs provide the ability to install 32 bit apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Saw this on telegram, may be a alternative in the future
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583630553139408896
hammered58 said:
Saw this on telegram, may be a alternative in the future
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583630553139408896
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forgive my ignorance, but what is paranoid Android and why would that allow 32 bit apps? I'm assuming it's some form of a custom ROM.
You can almost be guaranteed that custom ROMs will have proper 32-bit support as long as Google doesn't strip it from AOSP any time soon (very unlikely seeing how there are still 32-bit devices out there).
EtherealRemnant said:
You can almost be guaranteed that custom ROMs will have proper 32-bit support as long as Google doesn't strip it from AOSP any time soon (very unlikely seeing how there are still 32-bit devices out there).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know. I'll wait and see what custom ROMs become available. If there wasn't a good possibility 32 bit support would be available relatively soon I'd probably return my Pixel 7 and get a different phone.
I have about 150apps on my P7 and i dont have any kind of problem, i know there's only 64bit support but what i mean is that i did not encouter too much only 32bit apps, and for me, its not really a big problem. And nowadays everyapp have an alternative to try or find out.
Btw, what i saw on twitter is that the mainteiner of EvoX on Oneplus 8 series is coming to Pixel 7/Pro too. So i think we have only to wait for those who want to try custom roms.
Hitman478™ said:
I have about 150apps on my P7 and i dont have any kind of problem, i know there's only 64bit support but what i mean is that i did not encouter too much only 32bit apps, and for me, its not really a big problem. And nowadays everyapp have an alternative to try or find out.
Btw, what i saw on twitter is that the mainteiner of EvoX on Oneplus 8 series is coming to Pixel 7/Pro too. So i think we have only to wait for those who want to try custom roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing that is hard to find are custom/modded 64 bit apps. They are almost always 32bit and won't work. Older apps also don't work which never got 64 bit versions. It's limiting and one of the main reasons I went Android over Apple is the opportunity to use custom/modded apps, side loading, etc. To me that's a big advantage over iOS.
没什么问题