Related
I have a SIM free UK P9. Early on in its life it received updates happily but I have still not received Nougat and I'm still on the September 2016 Security Patch from Google. I've never rooted or tampered with the device, so where are my updates? Are Huawei simply too busy with other phones to bother updating flagships from only last year?
It is unacceptable to me that a £450 device from a manufacturer purportedly looking to compete with the big guns in the premium phone space cannot be bothered to keep its older handsets up to date. How is a user supposed to put his trust in a company when they seem to forget about their older devices once newer ones are released onto the market?
Meanwhile a friend of mine with a SIM free Samsung Galaxy Note 4 (!) has June's security patches.
Small wonder people don't take Huawei seriously. This P9 is a lovely device with great battery life and is still (for my usage) an excellent handset; however I will not be buying another Huawei until I am confident that they are willing to maintain support for older devices. So far it seems that some people in different parts of the world on various carriers *do* get updates (or at least have more recent ones) but Huawei seem incapable of rolling them out consistently and across the board.
Disappointing.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I don't wish to put Huawei down too much as I think they bring some interesting things to the market but one of my biggest bugbears is where manufacturers forget that after-sales support and updates are some of the things that contribute to people's perception of a company. Might as well just buy Doogees and Vernees off Banggood without it.
Don't wait huawei to send update,use firmware finder from play store,or dload method,or hisuite method,all these methods are officially safe and keep your warranty. What your build number ?
Build number is EVA-L09C432B182.
I'm not really into flashing ROMs these days as i don't want to mess anything up. I don't want to flash firmware that isn't UK SIM free either, and if I haven't had that update OTA then I assume it simply hasn't been released.
I don't have a PC anyway as I sold my Surface Pro and now only have a MacBook.
Use firmware finder from play store,and firmware finder proxy,it is the easy way,only search for the rom u want and let your system update search for update by using proxy,if from MM to nougat u will not loose anything.
You'd have to guide me through that step by step as to be honest I don't entirely understand anything other than the bit about using something from the Play Store
OK so I worked this out. The only firmware it says is approved for my device is the next up on the list - EVAL09C432B330-LOG.
This downloads fine through the stock Huawei update menu (as if i am just doing a normal update) and the phone reboots but then the installation fails, whether I choose the full package or standard update option.
leoni1980 said:
OK so I worked this out. The only firmware it says is approved for my device is the next up on the list - EVAL09C432B330-LOG.
This downloads fine through the stock Huawei update menu (as if i am just doing a normal update) and the phone reboots but then the installation fails, whether I choose the full package or standard update option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you have a way to get the files from firmware finder onto your SD card? If so create a folder called DLOAD on the root directory and then put the update file in that folder. Power off the phone and hold all three buttons (power and vol+/-) until you get the firmware updating screen.
Let me know if it still fails.
Thanks. Will doing this cause any mismatches in future and stop me being able to receive OTA updates, or affect Android Pay?
I have put the update.zip in a folder called dload in the root of the SD but neither the boot method of installation nor the dialler method seems to find it. I've tried with a different update.zip with the same result
leoni1980 said:
I have put the update.zip in a folder called dload in the root of the SD but neither the boot method of installation nor the dialler method seems to find it. I've tried with a different update.zip with the same result
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who told u that??, incorrect my friend,extract the update.zip and put only update.app inside dlod folder in the root of your sd card,it is explain hunderds of time everywhere
Hi, this isn't all that clear in the other instructions I've read, and historically flashing update.zip from the root of an SD card is quite a typical way to flash software, so you can understand the confusion!
Are you sure this will work? Other threads online indicate that flashing is much more difficult than this and requires unlocking the bootloader. Am I missing something here?
I also tried this but failed on my phone. I put the update.app in the dload folder but always fails after about 14%
leoni1980 said:
Hi, this isn't all that clear in the other instructions I've read, and historically flashing update.zip from the root of an SD card is quite a typical way to flash software, so you can understand the confusion!
Are you sure this will work? Other threads online indicate that flashing is much more difficult than this and requires unlocking the bootloader. Am I missing something here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after you download the zip file and then unzip it. Put thr UPDATE.APP in the dload folder on your internal memory. and then perform the update.
sprouts4all said:
I also tried this but failed on my phone. I put the update.app in the dload folder but always fails after about 14%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try redownloading the file.
sprouts4all said:
I also tried this but failed on my phone. I put the update.app in the dload folder but always fails after about 14%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to let you know, after downloading a bazillion files and trying every method under the sun I finally got this to work. It is now running B386 firmware.
Using the manual update method didn't work for me; the steps I had to follow are as follows:
With Firmware Finder, choose the B386 full OTA package - check for compatibility first (it said mine was compatible with it) and choose to install via proxy. Set up your WiFi to run the localhost/8080 proxy settings as instructed by FF. While the file is downloading, remove the proxy settings from your WiFi, allow it to reconnect and continue the download.
I then just left the phone to its own thing. I was actually watching a video in the background when it rebooted itself and began the installation process, which didn't fail as I expected it to.
Everything seems to be running fine now.
Thanks to the person in this thread who suggested using Firmware Finder.
leoni1980 said:
Just to let you know, after downloading a bazillion files and trying every method under the sun I finally got this to work. It is now running B386 firmware.
Using the manual update method didn't work for me; the steps I had to follow are as follows:
With Firmware Finder, choose the B386 full OTA package - check for compatibility first (it said mine was compatible with it) and choose to install via proxy. Set up your WiFi to run the localhost/8080 proxy settings as instructed by FF. While the file is downloading, remove the proxy settings from your WiFi, allow it to reconnect and continue the download.
I then just left the phone to its own thing. I was actually watching a video in the background when it rebooted itself and began the installation process, which didn't fail as I expected it to.
Everything seems to be running fine now.
Thanks to the person in this thread who suggested using Firmware Finder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What firmware was you on before. I have tried this method with other versions but no luck. I will try with the B386.
sprouts4all said:
What firmware was you on before. I have tried this method with other versions but no luck. I will try with the B386.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was on B182. If you're on the exact same firmware as me then try the steps above exactly and you might have more luck. I also deleted all old downloaded update files before I commenced with it.
Thanks
leoni1980 said:
I was on B182. If you're on the exact same firmware as me then try the steps above exactly and you might have more luck. I also deleted all old downloaded update files before I commenced with it.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still didnt work, went to install but failed. Says incompatible firmware
Follow these like i just did
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=70594380&postcount=2)
mazsuper said:
Follow these like i just did
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=70594380&postcount=2)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't work, managed to get to B360 but now Huawei apps are missing including camera
goto b300 then b182 then follow above instructions , and rtfm
skip 361 and goto 378 via hisuite update
Hi !
I have a NEM-L51C432. I recently installed the new update available (B357) using Huawei Firmware Finder.
Due to some issues, I then decided to rollback to a previous build using the dload method. I succeeded, although I can't recall if the one which worked was B350 or B355.
The problem is, my build is still B357 in the "About phone" menu even though I have the March security patch.
I also noticed that the clock app is missing. Moreover, I get a notification telling me that apps are non-compatible with my phone when I install/update them, even though they work fine.
I can't update system apps (like Chrome or WebView for instance) due to different signature.
I have no idea if these things are related.
So, can someone please tell me how can I get my phone to display the correct build number and eventually correct the other issues in the process ? I'm ready to wipe and re-flash if I have to.
Side question, when I download from HFF in order to use the dload method, most of the time I have the choice between one, two, or even three zips to download.
Each contain a UPDATE.APP file, but I don't get the same files when I extract from it, depending on the zip I downloaded.
Can someone explain me this as well as which file I should prefer (update.zip or one of the other two if available) ?
Thank you.
You need to flash all 3 files via dload.
There is a detailed quide in my signature for dload method. You can flash b350/355/357 or above using that.
shashank1320 said:
You need to flash all 3 files via dload.
There is a detailed quide in my signature for dload method. You can flash b350/355/357 or above using that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer.
Do you mean I need the three zips from HFF ? For instance, if I try to download B355, I have the choice between these :
http://update.hicloud.com:8180/TDS/data/files/p3/s15/G1581/g104/v84990/f1/full/update.zip
http://update.hicloud.com:8180/TDS/...90/f1/full/public/update_data_full_public.zip
http://update.hicloud.com:8180/TDS/...l/NEM-L51_hw_eu/update_full_NEM-L51_hw_eu.zip
They all have a UPDATE.APP within them, but they don't have the same files when I extract. What should I do ?
Zarou said:
Thank you for your answer.
Do you mean I need the three zips from HFF ? For instance, if I try to download B355, I have the choice between these :
http://update.hicloud.com:8180/TDS/data/files/p3/s15/G1581/g104/v84990/f1/full/update.zip
http://update.hicloud.com:8180/TDS/...l/NEM-L51_hw_eu/update_full_NEM-L51_hw_eu.zip
They all have a UPDATE.APP within them, but they don't have the same files when I extract. What should I do ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me check the files on PC. Will guide you further
shashank1320 said:
Let me check the files on PC. Will guide you further
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, thanks.
Today I tried re-flashing the update.zip file of all versions via dload, even MM versions. In the end, the only one which worked was the FullOTA-MF-PV of NEM-L51C432B350. All other versions failed to install at 5 %.
I don't know if this is related, but this is the only update which is available as "PV", whatever that means.
In any case, as I said in my first post, my build number is still B357 (while it should be 350) and I don't have the Huawei clock app. Some system apps are impossible to update as well. Plus, this will probably cause issue with future updates...
Zarou said:
Okay, thanks.
Today I tried re-flashing the update.zip file of all versions via dload, even MM versions. In the end, the only one which worked was the FullOTA-MF-PV of NEM-L51C432B350. All other versions failed to install at 5 %.
I don't know if this is related, but this is the only update which is available as "PV", whatever that means.
In any case, as I said in my first post, my build number is still B357 (while it should be 350) and I don't have the Huawei clock app. Some system apps are impossible to update as well. Plus, this will probably cause issue with future updates...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pv is something you can flash via twrp. Regarding misssing apps, flash the smaller file, around 600-800 MB, via twrp and it will restore apps, themes, fm radio etc.
shashank1320 said:
Pv is something you can flash via twrp. Regarding misssing apps, flash the smaller file, around 600-800 MB, via twrp and it will restore apps, themes, fm radio etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't flash the update.zip with TWRP (at least, with OldDroid's). However, I did managed to get back missing apps by flashing the second zip file, thank you about that.
Doesn't work with the third one though, and my build number is still wrong. Any idea about how to fix this ?
Zarou said:
Can't flash the update.zip with TWRP (at least, with OldDroid's). However, I did managed to get back missing apps by flashing the second zip file, thank you about that.
Doesn't work with the third one though, and my build number is still wrong. Any idea about how to fix this ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which build number you flash and which is the one showing?
yes, only 2nd file will work and bring back the missing apps.
shashank1320 said:
Which build number you flash and which is the one showing?
yes, only 2nd file will work and bring back the missing apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the end, I solved the issue by extracting the VERSION.img file from the UPDATE.APP of the third zip and flashing it with TWRP.
I then updated to B355 and B357 with HFF proxy.
Weird thing is, the B357 update re-locked my bootloader and when I unlocked it again, I was stuck with an old version of Google Play Services which couldn't be updated (different signature issue). Luckily, I had a backup from the previous update but this is weird.
Thanks for your help. You've done a lot.
Hey guys, just wanted to drop a quick and dirty guide on how to get the beta working on your locked AT&T device. I am by no means a developer or an expert, but I've been flashing ROMs and modding my devices for close to 8 years. I take no responsibility if you brick your device or cannot get it to work, feel free to research yourself or wait until the beta ends and Samsung releases Android 9/One UI next year.
Okay, so the first thing I had to do was install the U1 firmware. I used this thread for most of the steps.
The links to the modded version of Odin in the 2nd post of that thread were dead, so I downloaded it from this post.
I downloaded the 3ARJ2 U1 firmware here.
Following the directions in that U1 thread, I unzipped the firmware file and flashed it in Odin. Elsewhere in the thread, it was recommended to choose the CSC file that starts with "CSC_OMC_OYM..." instead of the "HOME_CSC" file.
After it boots up, you may be able to join the beta using the Samsung+ app, I'd recommend downloading this beta version.
For whatever reason, the beta registration banner showed up for me but pressing the register button never did anything. I found many reports of that problem and tried everything for about two hours to make it work before moving on and downloading the OTA beta file below and installing it through recovery.
I downloaded the OTA file for the U1 firmware from this post.
ARJ2 to ZRK9 (Beta 1)
Download link:
https://mega.nz/#!sjRnHK4S!o2sJ49Stk2GzUFhFXX1Hed8hSOsAVkfaBPVRWY989QM
After installing the beta zip, I performed a factory reset, just in case.
Now I'm happily using the beta on my locked AT&T s9. I did see an option for VoLTE, but I had to disable it due to being on a FirstNet SIM, so I can't speak to how well that feature works. I haven't had much time to play around with the beta yet, because I wanted to get this posted up before I went to work. Hope this helps someone else! Thanks to all who helped me in the various threads, I really appreciate the XDA community!
P.S. This does not trip Knox.
Thank you I'll give it a shot
You're on a FirstNet sim too huh? Me as well. Gonna give this a shot.
I'll be curious how your reception is on the beta. Mine doesn't seem as good as before. I checked the APN settings, and it's still showing that it's using FirstNet profiles.
911jason said:
I'll be curious how your reception is on the beta. Mine doesn't seem as good as before. I checked the APN settings, and it's still showing that it's using FirstNet profiles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ended up not being able to go from BRJ5 because I can't get the firmware in the correct order. Did doing this trip your Knox? Not a huge deal for me, as I am the IT in my government agency, but a big deal for device compliance in Intune.
I was on 3BRJ5 before flashing the U1 firmware. It did not trip Knox.
So does WiFi calling and VoLTE work? Can anyone confirm
xguntherc said:
So does WiFi calling and VoLTE work? Can anyone confirm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ultimately those features aren't present on the U1 firmwares for Att.
I have a Verizon device and tried installing the One UI beta on my S9+ and got some error messages and wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction
E: folder is wrong
Update package verification took 0.1s (result 1)
E: signature verification failed
E: error 21
Installation aborted. #1
Sproveri said:
I have a Verizon device and tried installing the One UI beta on my S9+ and got some error messages and wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction
E: folder is wrong
Update package verification took 0.1s (result 1)
E: signature verification failed
E: error 21
Installation aborted. #1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but pretty sure this is S9 only. There is another thread for S9+
That's why it keeps falling
Appreciate the patched Odin. I also have the locked SM-G960U and was unsuccessful in flashing U1.
Sproveri said:
I have a Verizon device and tried installing the One UI beta on my S9+ and got some error messages and wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction
E: folder is wrong
Update package verification took 0.1s (result 1)
E: signature verification failed
E: error 21
Installation aborted. #1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason its failing is OneUI beta isn't designed for Version G965U. You will need to got to G965U1 to load the beta.
elstano2k7 said:
Appreciate the patched Odin. I also have the locked SM-G960U and was unsuccessful in flashing U1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What part of the process didn't work?
911jason said:
What part of the process didn't work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 256? error
Finally made the jump as I was too sick of waiting on samsung/att to give me the update! Thanks for the great instructions and links that actually work. Beta 3 to me feels better than using Oreo. The only weird little bug I have noticed is the night mode likes to turn itself off randomly. It's been working great as my daily driver for a almost a week now without issue.
Easy way
Found a easy way
Flash the G960U1 in the post
Completely Boot then
Then flash this via odin
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12zsai6UKCeadt0L1D765vVnksqPTi0pp/view?usp=drivesdk
Full 9.0
Unzip
Follow the flashing step
But add the user data
And boom!!
Works on att US model tested on my own
FizzyAps said:
Found a easy way
Flash the G960U1 in the post
Completely Boot then
Then flash this via odin
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12zsai6UKCeadt0L1D765vVnksqPTi0pp/view?usp=drivesdk
Full 9.0
Unzip
Follow the flashing step
But add the user data
And boom!!
Works on att US model tested on my own
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where is the userdata files for the FW
Can someone help me please? I have tried so many different files and so many different file names but no matter what, I get an instant "system update failed" message when i click ok selecting the update. I have tried files here in xda and every A9toA10 update file I could find on Telegram, with every combination of file names, but no luck. I always get the same message. I also tried the official update of the same version (A9) nothing.
I did RAW firmware (1910.64) relocking bootloader, wiping before and after bootloader relock, still nothing.
I am currently at 1910.64, completely stock, bootloader locked (no warning on boot), no google account or patern required, not even connected to wifi, I STILL get the update failed message.
What am I missing guys? Is there a specific file I should be using? Everyone seems to be updating successfully, except me...
I don't care its a beta, I just need Android 10 for the global dark mode and the not-broken notifications of 9s doze.
palamosteliaro said:
Can someone help me please? I have tried so many different files and so many different file names but no matter what, I get an instant "system update failed" message when i click ok selecting the update. I have tried files here in xda and every A9toA10 update file I could find on Telegram, with every combination of file names, but no luck. I always get the same message. I also tried the official update of the same version (A9) nothing.
I did RAW firmware (1910.64) relocking bootloader, wiping before and after bootloader relock, still nothing.
I am currently at 1910.64, completely stock, bootloader locked (no warning on boot), no google account or patern required, not even connected to wifi, I STILL get the update failed message.
What am I missing guys? Is there a specific file I should be using? Everyone seems to be updating successfully, except me...
I don't care its a beta, I just need Android 10 for the global dark mode and the not-broken notifications of 9s doze.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you change the fingerprint?
reg66 said:
Did you change the fingerprint?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I didn't touch that. Compared to the S10+ the fingerprint is much better on the ROG so I didn't feel the need to.
I found the solution so for anyone in the same position with me:
You will need to be rooted at the latest Pie version of RAW WW rom.
If your phone is Tencent (like mine) you can't do OTA updates of WW versions and thats why I was getting the error message. You need to change the /vendor/factory/COUNTRY file from CN to WW. Use root explorer and its build-in text editor to open the file and change CN to WW. Reboot now.
The OTA update will still not start if you have rooted boot.img BUT magisk won't also flash the OTA update if you dont have rooted boot.img!
So you need to press "uninstall" at the bottom of the magisk manager and "restore images" at the prompt. This will restore the stock image, but still give you the ability to patch the OTA update and still have root when u update to 10. I thought just to fastboot the stock boot.img but nope! magisk wont patch the OTA if you boot with stock boot.img.
When you will press "restore images" you will get a message that a stock backup is not present and after some researching, I found out that the backups are expected to be in "/data/" with the filename: "stock_boot_SHA1.img.gz" so you need to gzip your stock image, generate its sha1 code and put it in the file name. I used 7zip for gziping and hashmyfiles to generate the SHA1. If you don't have the stock image, you can extract it from the official firmware's (asus website) payload.bin file using payload_dumper-win64"
After you get the "backup" gzip of your stock boot.img with the correct filename (including the sha1) you place it inside the "/data/" folder with root explorer (not "data/data/" just "/data") and you can now "uninstall" and "restore images" from the magisk.
When that is complete, copy the OTA .zip file of Android 10, disconnecting the usb cable from ur pc should trigger the notification that an update is present. Start the update, when it reaches 100% it will ask you to reboot. Select "later" and go back to magisk, select install and "install to inactive slot (after ota)" and restart when that finishes.
You should boot back to Android 10 and have magisk and root at this point.
Hardest rooting I have ever done, google really f'ed us with android 10 "security". I miss the good old days we were just flashing 1 file in fastboot and we had root+twrp+hapiness...
Good Luck to anyone trying.
palamosteliaro said:
No I didn't touch that. Compared to the S10+ the fingerprint is much better on the ROG so I didn't feel the need to.
If your phone is Tencent (like mine) you can't do OTA updates of WW versions and thats why I was getting the error message. You need to change the /vendor/factory/COUNTRY file from CN to WW. Use root explorer and its build-in text editor to open the file and change CN to WW. Reboot now.
Good Luck to anyone trying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont see the COUNTRY file in factory folder- tried using root browser and root explorer but stil dont see the file..
can you provide me file mention?
jimdorky said:
I dont see the COUNTRY file in factory folder- tried using root browser and root explorer but stil dont see the file..
can you provide me file mention?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure you are looking at the right folder? I believe its a mandatory file, but I am not sure. Maybe if you don't have it is for the better even. When you do factory reset, in what language is the setup? Before I edited that file mine was in chinese, but after editing its english.
Anyway, I have included a screenshot of the rest of the files inside /vendor/factory so u can check if you look in the right place.
I also uploaded the country file here DELETE THE .TXT extension, I put it so I could upload it here.
palamosteliaro said:
No I didn't touch that. Compared to the S10+ the fingerprint is much better on the ROG so I didn't feel the need to.
I found the solution so for anyone in the same position with me:
You will need to be rooted at the latest Pie version of RAW WW rom.
If your phone is Tencent (like mine) you can't do OTA updates of WW versions and thats why I was getting the error message. You need to change the /vendor/factory/COUNTRY file from CN to WW. Use root explorer and its build-in text editor to open the file and change CN to WW. Reboot now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, that's what i meant about the fingerprint - the CN to WW change of device fingerprint, not the actual fingerprint reader!! Glad you got it working ...
reg66 said:
Yep, that's what i meant about the fingerprint - the CN to WW change of device fingerprint, not the actual fingerprint reader!! Glad you got it working ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol I am such a noob! I was reading around about changing the fingerprint and I thought the WW version had better fingerprint recognition and everyone was switching...
palamosteliaro said:
lol I am such a noob! I was reading around about changing the fingerprint and I thought the WW version had better fingerprint recognition and everyone was switching...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries dude, I thought it at first too!
I have the same problem i have the tencent edition and the update i have is WW 1910.44_0 and i tried to update the firmware to the new one that i downloaded from asus website it says system update falied?? can someone help
AssyrianHero said:
I have the same problem i have the tencent edition and the update i have is WW 1910.44_0 and i tried to update the firmware to the new one that i downloaded from asus website it says system update falied?? can someone help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you get it sorted yet. im in the same boat. confused as hell
Or how can I make Hisuite work properly in Canada?
I mean edit xml file never works for me. Tried on different PCs.
Hisuite either response "your device is not supported", or after adding the model to XML list, "no available package for your device".
Plz, can someone give a help?
I read somewhere here on the forum that they flashed LYA-L29 Download package and it worked
q13017 said:
Or how can I make Hisuite work properly in Canada?
I mean edit xml file never works for me. Tried on different PCs.
Hisuite either response "your device is not supported", or after adding the model to XML list, "no available package for your device".
Plz, can someone give a help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's your carrier?
Rogers, but the device was Bell's.
dwojr said:
I read somewhere here on the forum that they flashed LYA-L29 Download package and it worked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly what I did. But still, since the proper version of emui has been released. I want to pass CTS check and enjoy Google pay and other stuff.
q13017 said:
That's exactly what I did. But still, since the proper version of emui has been released. I want to pass CTS check and enjoy Google pay and other stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand
I'm with rogers too. still waiting on 10.0. I would recommend NOT using another models firmware for now. wait til Feb 4th.
Hi folks, I've bought a pre-owned Canadian version but it has LYA-L29 flashed. I really need to either:
1. Flash the latest LYA-L29
OR (preferably)
2. Find a full Flash of LYA-L0C (any version so I can continue to update via OTA)
Is there any direction you can point me towards here?