Database Develop

General S21 Ultra LTPO Discussion

All,
I was pretty curious to try the new screen tech since the launch event, today i got the device, enabled frame rate monitor on developer settings to see the LTPO in action, contrary to what they said on launch event the screen switches back and forth only between 60 and 120hz , 120hz during scrolling , 60hz when the screen is static without any input. It doesn't go all the way as low as 11hz
Wondering is this the right way of implementation , members please share your findings or information related to LTPO here to discuss upon

bala_gamer said:
All,
I was pretty curious to try the new screen tech since the launch event, today i got the device, enabled frame rate monitor on developer settings to see the LTPO in action, contrary to what they said on launch event the screen switches back and forth only between 60 and 120hz , 120hz during scrolling , 60hz when the screen is static without any input. It doesn't go all the way as low as 11hz
Wondering is this the right way of implementation , members please share your findings or information related to LTPO here to discuss upon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give this a read - can't remember exactly what was said, maybe a limitation of the developer settings and not the phone
Samsung's Note20 Ultra Variable Refresh Rate Display Explained
www.anandtech.com

mtm1401 said:
Give this a read - can't remember exactly what was said, maybe a limitation of the developer settings and not the phone
Samsung's Note20 Ultra Variable Refresh Rate Display Explained
www.anandtech.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
read them as soon as andrei published it, would love to see his deep dive into the new panel in s21 and see what benefits it brings to the equation

bala_gamer said:
read them as soon as andrei published it, would love to see his deep dive into the new panel in s21 and see what benefits it brings to the equation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah fair enough, he's comparisons of the two models are always worth reading! I did find the bit I was referring to if that helps. Basically the OS can't recognise the lower refresh rate but they are there.
'One problem (from our perspective) with this LFD mechanism is that it is seemingly completely transparent to user-space, so there’s no good way to verify that it’s active or working - the OS simply states that you’re either in the 120Hz or 60Hz VRR modes, however with LFD on top the actual refresh rate can be different. One way to verify this externally is simply to measure the end-result that the new panel technology is meant to bring to the user: lower power consumption. It’s also here that we encounter some of the quirks in Samsung’s implementation.'

Will be interesting to see if the adaptive rate works in lower light unlike the note!

mtm1401 said:
Ah fair enough, he's comparisons of the two models are always worth reading! I did find the bit I was referring to if that helps. Basically the OS can't recognise the lower refresh rate but they are there.
'One problem (from our perspective) with this LFD mechanism is that it is seemingly completely transparent to user-space, so there’s no good way to verify that it’s active or working - the OS simply states that you’re either in the 120Hz or 60Hz VRR modes, however with LFD on top the actual refresh rate can be different. One way to verify this externally is simply to measure the end-result that the new panel technology is meant to bring to the user: lower power consumption. It’s also here that we encounter some of the quirks in Samsung’s implementation.'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the crux, whether it works or not we are limited to either 60 or 120hz on os level. Hope there is a way where this can be monitored more precisely via some workaround

This app seems to report (and limit) refresh rates other than 60 and 120hz, but I don't know how if it's not exposed by the OS.
[App]Galaxy Max Hz (Refresh Rate Mods, Screen-off Mods, QS Tiles, Tasker Support and More)
About this app: Refresh Rate Mods Change default refresh rates - Easily change the overall refresh rate settings of devices supporting multiple refresh rates. - Set supported mid refresh rates as the maximum refresh rate limit for battery...
forum.xda-developers.com

dscline said:
This app seems to report (and limit) refresh rates other than 60 and 120hz, but I don't know how if it's not exposed by the OS.
[App]Galaxy Max Hz (Refresh Rate Mods, Screen-off Mods, QS Tiles, Tasker Support and More)
About this app: Refresh Rate Mods Change default refresh rates - Easily change the overall refresh rate settings of devices supporting multiple refresh rates. - Set supported mid refresh rates as the maximum refresh rate limit for battery...
forum.xda-developers.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those refresh rates (e.g. 48hz and 96hz on Note 20 ultra) are actually exposed on OS level. If my understanding is right on the way that current android system works, S21 ultra implementation is probably the same to note 20 ultra with the addition of10hz as the lowest in the predefined set of refresh rates.

How To Guide Changing your Refreshrate to 90hz.

If you want to change your Refreshrate to 90hz follow this quick guide.
Tested on the latest miui version.
First of all go to the Playstore and download following app:
SetEdit SettingsDatabaseEditor - Apps on Google Play
Provides direct access to the Android settings database
play.google.com
Afterwards go to your settings and change your Refreshrate to 120.
Open the app and find the entry "user_refresh_rate" "120".
Click on the entry, choose to edit and change the number to 90.
Repeat this step with the peak entry and change it to 90hz too.
Close the app.
Voila: you running on 90hz now. In my opinion that's the sweetspot between snappiness and battery saving.
Props to jmikepr:
Unable to make this work. Tried it about a hundred times. Running. EU ROM 12.6
Edit: Got it to work by changing peak display setting and user display setting. Thanks for the tip. 120 hz is overkill. 90hz is perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UPDATE PLEASE READ:
UPDATE FOR EVERYONE!
Changing your refreshrate to 90hz will make some crazy things to your display!
It will get a greenish tint !
Grey will also be displayed really red/brownish
It will flicker even on max brightness!
It will burn in faster - at least my new mi11 u has already some burn ins compared to my mi11 from CN which is like 3 months old now I don't know for sure tho! It's so minimal only my hawk eye can see it anybody else couldn't till now.
Sorry but I just found this out now because my colours looked to differently with low brightness. I also got an exchange device and thought it was just a bad display.

Unable to make this work. Tried it about a hundred times. Running. EU ROM 12.6
Edit: Got it to work by changing peak display setting and user display setting. Thanks for the tip. 120 hz is overkill. 90hz is perfect.

jmikepr said:
Unable to make this work. Tried it about a hundred times. Running. EU ROM 12.6
Edit: Got it to work by changing peak display setting and user display setting. Thanks for the tip. 120 hz is overkill. 90hz is perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh good to know! I will at this in the original post.

Anyway to dynamically adjust it based on what's on screen and whether it's moving or not?

speedtripler said:
Anyway to dynamically adjust it based on what's on screen and whether it's moving or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not right now. Maybe I can find a way - I will let you know.

hotto1996 said:
Not right now. Maybe I can find a way - I will let you know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read about a way, I think it was from another manufacturer , and it could lower the refresh rate down to 1hz when looking at a still image etc or a page of text etc , something that doesn't need to be constantly refreshed which would obviously be a major battery saver
If I can find the article again I'll post the link

To my surprise, my eyes can't even accept 90hz now. Talk about spoiled.
Great method regardless, thanks for sharing!

linnil said:
To my surprise, my eyes can't even accept 90hz now. Talk about spoiled.
Great method regardless, thanks for sharing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really haha? I change the animation speeds too via developer settings. For me that's smooth enough!

hotto1996 said:
Really haha? I change the animation speeds too via developer settings. For me that's smooth enough!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm impatient af
I disable all animations in dev options.
I just want to click something and boom, it's on the screen!

Yeah I think so too. I don't understand why everything needs to look fancy. I want a fast and snappy experience

Great stuff, will definitely try this when my Mi 11 Ultra arrives. 90Hz is perfect for me, I don't need 120Hz as I don't play mobile games.
Anyone knows if it'll stay @ 90Hz after a software update? Or it will change itself back to 120Hz?

speedtripler said:
I read about a way, I think it was from another manufacturer , and it could lower the refresh rate down to 1hz when looking at a still image etc or a page of text etc , something that doesn't need to be constantly refreshed which would obviously be a major battery saver
If I can find the article again I'll post the link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you refer to OnePlus 9 Pro, that has stock dynamic refresh rate...:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371830276926668801

jericho246 said:
Great stuff, will definitely try this when my Mi 11 Ultra arrives. 90Hz is perfect for me, I don't need 120Hz as I don't play mobile games.
Anyone knows if it'll stay @ 90Hz after a software update? Or it will change itself back to 120Hz?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would just take a quick look after an update. To be honest I don't know tho!

Thank you very much for the solution to change the refresh rate. It works perfectly.
Even if after the upgrade will revert to 120, you can change it afterwards very easy.
Cheers !

How to change refresh rate manually using only default.prop file? Thanks.

One other cool thing I found.
If you set it to 90/90 ( user refresh/peak refresh) like instructed above, i saw that it also drops to 60 when seeing static web browser page content ( for example reading this forum pages ) which is actually pretty cool because it saves even more power this way.
Will test to see if it does the same with the default 120hz but i rear think 120hz is overkill for daily usage.
Only scenario where I can find it useful would be games that support 100hz plus refresh rates .
LE it would seem that the "dynamic" refresh only worked briefly until I clicked on the auto brightness icon in the drop down menu.
LE 2 it actually switching to 60hz when brightness is around and over 80%
Take care and thanks again !

lebigmac said:
How to change refresh rate manually using only default.prop file? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean?youbcan change the settings in the Meue ofc but only 60hz and 120hz. The file is actually stock, you only changing the numbers and can changed them back any time you want
Best regards

Jhonxs said:
One other cool thing I found.
If you set it to 90/90 ( user refresh/peak refresh) like instructed above, i saw that it also drops to 60 when seeing static web browser page content ( for example reading this forum pages ) which is actually pretty cool because it saves even more power this way.
Will test to see if it does the same with the default 120hz but i rear think 120hz is overkill for daily usage.
Only scenario where I can find it useful would be games that support 100hz plus refresh rates .
LE it would seem that the "dynamic" refresh only worked briefly until I clicked on the auto brightness icon in the drop down menu.
LE 2 it actually switching to 60hz when brightness is around and over 80%
Take care and thanks again !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx for your reply. Did you already test it out? I was quite busy the last days - sorry for my late response.
Honestly 120hz are kinda gimmick right now. You can feel the difference but it's draining even more battery and like you said as long as there is near to no app supporting it it's just something to be proud of maybe haha
Best regards
Lol you already did test it out . sorry

If anyone find a way to dynamically change the refresh rate please let us know.
For example when watching YT videos maxed at 60hz would be great to scale the display to that resolution ( if it's already possible please let me know )
I saw that the game "The elder scrools: Blades" automatically switches to 60Hz when playing ( haven't tested out with other games because i don't game that much ) .
Also i noted that, if, for whatever reason, the display doesn't change to 60HZ when the game needs it, the game will continuously load and never enter the actual first menu
A quick fix is to increase the brightness over 80% so that the screen is already at 60 before starting the game
Cheers !

Thanks @speedtripler. I just disabled animations in developer options and it's like sh*t off a shovel!
Cheers
Steve

Question How to force 60Hz in Youtube Vanced and on AOD?

When 120Hz is enabled in settings, Youtube app will run at lower 60Hz which saves the battery (since there is no need to view 30fps videos in 120Hz)
But Youtube Vanced runs at fixed 120Hz - is there any way to force Vanced to also run at 60Hz? By adding vanced youtube bundle id to system table or something?
Also is there a way to force AOD to run at 60Hz (or lower?) - Always On Display runs at 120Hz fixed which is super unnecessary and just drains the battery

Especially the Always On Display should not run in 120hz, that is totally crazy. How do you know that it does?

Danacy said:
Especially the Always On Display should not run in 120hz, that is totally crazy. How do you know that it does?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does... enable the power monitor in dev settings and you see it
it does always, no idea why
it could run at 1Hz would be enough

Danacy said:
Especially the Always On Display should not run in 120hz, that is totally crazy. How do you know that it does?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
enable show refresh rate option in developer settings - it shows 120Hz on AOD
qvert said:
it does... enable the power monitor in dev settings and you see it
it does always, no idea why
it could run at 1Hz would be enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
display on Mi 11 is not capable of running at 1Hz, I think 48Hz is the lowest it can go (but not sure even of that or if 60Hz is a hard minimum)

The better choice is to using 90hz rate all the time, good balance between 60/120hz. Seriously i don't see any difference in game/apps between 90/120 but battery life is really different !
Personnaly if you like so much 120hz, you can replace 60hz by 90hz and keep 90/120 insteak of 60/90hz

Pho3nX said:
The better choice is to using 90hz rate all the time, good balance between 60/120hz. Seriously i don't see any difference in game/apps between 90/120 but battery life is really different !
Personnaly if you like so much 120hz, you can replace 60hz by 90hz and keep 90/120 insteak of 60/90hz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried 90Hz using the method from the video, but it wasn't good - 90Hz felt like it was below 60Hz, not smooth at all when scrolling
So I didn't like this method at all
It would be best if MIUI had option to choose max refresh rate for each app individually
Forcing max refresh rate in most apps is stupid, especially on AOD

Furma said:
I tried 90Hz using the method from the video, but it wasn't good - 90Hz felt like it was below 60Hz, not smooth at all when scrolling
So I didn't like this method at all
It would be best if MIUI had option to choose max refresh rate for each app individually
Forcing max refresh rate in most apps is stupid, especially on AOD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL
90Hz it's true, and smooth, you can easily see the difference between 60/90

Pho3nX said:
LOL
90Hz it's true, and smooth, you can easily see the difference between 60/90
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've followed method shown in the video after which 90Hz was enabled (I enabled refresh rate indicator in dev settings so I can see the refresh rate)
scrolling thru app drawer and settings was choppy at 90Hz - there was micro stuttering, not sure why, but it was there
So enabling 90Hz via this method is not good (at least on my Mi 11)

Furma said:
I've followed method shown in the video after which 90Hz was enabled (I enabled refresh rate indicator in dev settings so I can see the refresh rate)
scrolling thru app drawer and settings was choppy at 90Hz - there was micro stuttering, not sure why, but it was there
So enabling 90Hz via this method is not good (at least on my Mi 11)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guys there no "choppy" 90 hz, 90 hz is truly activated, it's not 120 hz. In my case all is smooth. This 90 hz is like 90 hz purposed on MiuiMix. There no good/true or bad method... It's 90 hz, not 120 hz, so just better than 60 hz. No less, no more

Question Is there way to get the screen to stay at 144hz?

I love this phone, but there is one huge annoyance, there doesn't seem to be a way to make the screen actually run at a sustained framerate.
I have it set to 144hz in the menu, but it routinely drops to 60fps or 120fps depending on the app
This normally isn't a big problem, except nova launcher only runs at 60fps and so scrolling the app drawer is incredibly bad.
Pokemon Go also only runs at 60fps...and since the game operates at 1/2 vsyn, the effective fps is only 30, which is atrocious compared to the 72fps it runs at on the ROG6

Don't confuse Screen Refresh Rate and Frames Per Second. Totally different things.

jwoegerbauer said:
Don't confuse Screen Refresh Rate and Frames Per Second. Totally different things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean... Not really
Obviously the screen always runs at a refresh rate of 144hz because it isn't a VRR display(as far as I know that doesn't exist on phones)
So what you are changing in settings is always the frame rate that the phone is rendering at.
Your phone should ALWAYS be rendering at the frame rate you select in the settings menu... But this phone doesn't seem to do that, and it's annoying because it makes the usage experience worse than every other phone I have

BigDog87 said:
I mean... Not really
Obviously the screen always runs at a refresh rate of 144hz because it isn't a VRR display(as far as I know that doesn't exist on phones)
So what you are changing in settings is always the frame rate that the phone is rendering at.
Your phone should ALWAYS be rendering at the frame rate you select in the settings menu... But this phone doesn't seem to do that, and it's annoying because it makes the usage experience worse than every other phone I have
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the reviews I've read/watched confirm what you've said. When you set 144hz, it runs that way in the default launcher and all the menus, but when you open certain apps, if they don't support 144hz natively then they just don't run at 144hz. The reviews seem to indicate that the developers of said apps need to enable support for 144hz.

So I was poking around the settings, and entered developer mode. There's an option to force the screen to stay at 144hz at ALL TIMES. It's called LOCK REFRESH RATE. I was able to confirm this works because there is also an option to SHOW REFRESH RATE which displays the screen refresh rate in the upper corner of the display. Before I locked the refresh rate, I used the show refresh rate function to view the refresh rate using different apps. In the phone menus, and app drawer, and google feed, etc the phone would remain at 144hz. But when opening some apps like Chrome for example, the refresh rate would drop to 120hz, etc. However, when I LOCKED the refresh rate in the dev options, the screen refresh rate stayed at 144hz in EVERY app and scenario I was in. It does state that this will drain your battery more rapidly when selecting to lock the refresh rate in the developer options. FYI

Question Touch sampling rate

I have downloaded an app called touch sampling rate checker and my Moto Edge 20 only shows a rate of 90-117hz regardless of screen refresh rate setting, however when using the same app on my mi11 it shows a constant 250hz and the mi 11 seems smoother in Twitter and Facebook etc am I missing something here?

Touch sampling rate and refresh rate are two different things. If you want a refresh rate checker, you can find it in developer options.

PhotonIce said:
Touch sampling rate and refresh rate are two different things. If you want a refresh rate checker, you can find it in developer options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I get that but I thought this phone has a 576hz touch sample rate? Unless the app is inaccurate ?

Not sure about the app, maybe try a different one.

nealyblue said:
Yeah I get that but I thought this phone has a 576hz touch sample rate? Unless the app is inaccurate ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to enable game mode for individual apps for max touch sampling rate to be enabled.

dannejanne said:
You have to enable game mode for individual apps for max touch sampling rate to be enabled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I already did that and the maximum I see is 250hz. Where have the 576hz they said gone?

fulltronservice said:
Unfortunately I already did that and the maximum I see is 250hz. Where have the 576hz they said gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah the highest I've seen is 400hz with game mode

nealyblue said:
Yeah the highest I've seen is 400hz with game mode
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that means that the value is dynamic up to 576hz. nothing to worry about then

Android apps dont usually report the correct sampling rate. Connect the phone through USB to a PC and run through ADB run the commands: "Adb shell getevent -r -t -l" and then start swiping on the display. It should report the correct sampling rate.

Username: Required said:
Android apps dont usually report the correct sampling rate. Connect the phone through USB to a PC and run through ADB run the commands: "Adb shell getevent -r -t -l" and then start swiping on the display. It should report the correct sampling rate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That ADB thing really helped. Now I can see the real use of touch sensitivity. From the huge list that came out I could see a maximum of 473hz. So the capability that Motorola offers is installed.
Thanks

fulltronservice said:
That ADB thing really helped. Now I can see the real use of touch sensitivity. From the huge list that came out I could see a maximum of 473hz. So the capability that Motorola offers is installed.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It varies on how fast you can drag your finger across the screen. I'm sure that if you drag it fast enough you'll hit 576Hz.

Username: Required said:
It varies on how fast you can drag your finger across the screen. I'm sure that if you drag it fast enough you'll hit 576Hz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I was able to notice that. When I made a simple contact, the response barely reached 100hz, but if I made aggressive contacts, the response was quite high.

fulltronservice said:
Unfortunately I already did that and the maximum I see is 250hz. Where have the 576hz they said gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just found out by experimenting Game Turbo:
1. Add your Game App/ Touch Tester App to game mode/turbo
2. Enable Auto Rotation mode (Portrait / Landscape mode)
3. Rotate ur Phone to Landscape even if the app doesnt support it
4. Touch the Screen while in Landscape and see the result Increases to Max Touch Rate
Follow what i said. I want to see the result.
Ty

cjlaysico said:
I just found out by experimenting Game Turbo:
1. Add your Game App/ Touch Tester App to game mode/turbo
2. Enable Auto Rotation mode (Portrait / Landscape mode)
3. Rotate ur Phone to Landscape even if the app doesnt support it
4. Touch the Screen while in Landscape and see the result Increases to Max Touch Rate
Follow what i said. I want to see the result.
Ty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip man I was freaking out with my Xiaomi 11T Pro who supposedly have 480hz sampling rate screen and was just getting 250hz tops within checker apps, until I run them through Gaming Mode as you suggested with Pro mode enabled and YES the sampling rate wen above 500hz tops.
So the range is dynamic? Supposedly to save battery I guess?
Regardless thanks!