Database Develop

[Q] Z3 Compact camera any better than Z1 Compact?

Hi. I've searched through some of the forum threads and can't find a direct comparison by actual owners so apologies in advance if this has been covered already....
I have a iphone 4s; the camera is good. I have tried to move to a android phone twice now, (HTC one and a Sony Z1 Compact) and was not impressed with the camera on either so I went back to my iphone 4s.
The HTC uses 4k ultra pixels so is good in low light but mediocre in normal daylight.
The Z1 compact camera just seemed flat, slow, blurred and I took several pics with my 4s and the 4s blew the sony out the water, which surprised me given it's age and much lower pixel count. (which I know isn't everything)
I want a compact phone, android with a excellent camera. Has anyone had experience using the Z3 AND the Z1 compacts?
Other than the camera on the Z3 compact which has mixed reviews, I'm very tempted by this phone as its small, has good battery life, decent specs but I'm weary after my bad experience with the Z1 compact.
Can anyone alley my fears or confirm the camera quality?
thanks

rcbmulder said:
much lower pixel count. (which I know isn't everything)
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The higher pixel count is actually counterproductive since each individual cell collects less light and there's additional space between them even increasing the effect (same with high density displays). Unless you do some kind of binning. That's been a trend since at least ten years, my ancient 4MP camera still takes very good low-light shots.

I received my Z3C yesterday so I don't have a lot of experience with it but my first impression is that you will be also disapointed with the camera like you were with the Z1C. Why that? Because I am a disappointed myself. I had the Z1C for 9 months before selling it of the Z3C. I also had the iPhone 4S before and I have to admit that the iPhone is a way more reliable device when it comes to instant photography.
What a pity to embed such a great hardware and not being able to get the most of it.

Rexet...
Thanks for the response. I feared that maybe the case. What a shame. I can't find a decent, small android phone with a top camera.... im hoping the nexus x may be the answer but who knows then that will be released..
iphone 6 (compact) seems to be the logical upgrade but i want to go back to android without sacrificing the camera and refuse to pay what is in my opinion too much for the iphone.

To answer your original question, the z3c camera is MUCH better than the z1ç. This is in both low light, and normal lighting.
HOWEVER my wife ip5s still take better pictures ...

Comparing with Z1 Compact which I had for 6 months, yes it's better with a noticeable margin.

In my opinion, the Z3c (1 week so far) takes roughly the same quality photos as the Z1c (4 months). It's a little snappier and that may be to the slightly faster chipset. The physical button is more sensitive on the Z3c which seems to capture faster.
In both cases, I think the cameras are super competitive with other phones but only if you use manual mode and learn how to shoot with it. You can take some pretty amazing photos with it but Sony makes you work for it. The Superior Auto is crap in my opinion since it often picks the wrong white balance.

Ive both and the z3c is slightly better than the z1c specially at low light. the 12800 ISO actually works (ie z1c == black picture where you see stuff on the z3c)
in bright light its hard to spot any difference.
as for the washed out colors and slight blur look, this is all post processing settings. washed out looking colors generally are actually natural colors. if you change the white balance and sharpness filter they'll look better than the iphone4 pictures.
I compared with colleague's iphone 6. In bright light (ie sun light) they look very similar once the image has been processed for the z3c. Otherwise it does look less contrasted etc. and the iphone6 picture looks better by default. All pics were taken in manual mode, they tend to suck in superior auto...
You can use the Google photo enhance for auto processing if you dont want to do it yourself, it does an okayish job of changing contrast, white balance and sharpness settings.
In low light the z3c is much better than the iphone6.
Hope it gives you an idea. Check the picture thread for samples http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-...ost-pictures-xperia-z3-compact-t2889119/page5

bilboa1 said:
as for the washed out colors and slight blur look, this is all post processing settings. washed out looking colors generally are actually natural colors. if you change the white balance and sharpness filter they'll look better than the iphone4 pictures.
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You mean applying a filter after you take the picture, or a setting you can change before and/or during taking a picture?

theres some things you can do while you take the picture, some you can do after. you can actually do the exact same changes after as you can do before except for SCN modes which change the sensor settings.. all other settings appear to be post processing (happening as you take the picture thought).
Most programs will let you do that. I change them in Gimp most of the time, when im lazy and didnt do it in the camera i just use google auto enhance from their photo app.
To look more like the iphones and galaxy phones tho, the settings i generally have to boost are whitebalance (a lot), sharpness (a fair amount) and just a bit of contrast.
I believe you cannot adjust the sharpness within the sony camera app.

With a phone camera, the last thing I want to do...and I bet many others too...is root around with post processing (what the hell??!) and with tweaking in manual mode.
I want to take it out of my pocket and press capture...snap. Done. Like the iphone.
Why is it so hard to do this?

In same position, bought the z3 compact to replace my iPhone 5.
In short, the camera is the only disappointing feature of the phone, and it really is a big disappointment. Washed out colours, terrible shutter lag, slow focus, very soft focus. Have tried all the different camera options (superior auto, different manual options, scenes options) and found nothing adequate yet.
A real shame as I really want to move away from ios, the rest of the phone is superb, if the camera isn't important then it's a fantastic device!

Yep automatic modes arent very good.
Manual modes are okay / mostly on par with competition.. That exludes phones like the lumia 1020 of course. One would hope sony work on the software a bit more in this area

News said z3/z3c camera software will be re-written on Android L(not sure about z1/z1c/z2), so now on 4.4.4 it won't be any better than z1c. I've got a z1c and only played z3c in a local phone store, the phone got faster focus but I think that is pretty much all of this. The quality is just same with Z2, not any better til Android L out. Z3/z3c used a slightly improved cmos(IMX220 vs IMX200) and G lens but you only got better at low light, day time quality has no different at all.
HTC, Samsung, Iphone all got better focus, so they always got a sharper picture and Sony is soft. Speaking for the photo quality, indeed z1/2/3 is real good at low light(when you focus right) and even slightly better than HTC/Samsung/Iphone(this is my experiences and you can notice that from many reviews too) but day time just not that good though acceptable.

TheEndHK said:
News said z3/z3c camera software will be re-written on Android L
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They did? I mean, you're not talking about the extended Android API but Sony's actual camera software?

Iruwen said:
They did? I mean, you're not talking about the extended Android API but Sony's actual camera software?
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I'd like a source on this as well. It really is a shame that Sony's camera software isn't on par with the rest of this fantastic device despite the superior hardware. I understand manually adjusting the camera is a solution, but for the layperson who doesn't have the time nor the know-how to make those adjustments, a simpler solution is preferred and a revamp/improvement of their software would go a long way in achieving that.

rcbmulder said:
I want a compact phone, android with a excellent camera. Has anyone had experience using the Z3 AND the Z1 compacts?
Other than the camera on the Z3 compact which has mixed reviews, I'm very tempted by this phone as its small, has good battery life, decent specs but I'm weary after my bad experience with the Z1 compact.
Can anyone alley my fears or confirm the camera quality?
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In my limited experience with the z3c, the camera is very poor when it comes to fine details like trees and leaves etc. If camera performance is important for you, then definitely look elsewhere. Shame on such a good phone otherwise.

radicans said:
In my limited experience with the z3c, the camera is very poor when it comes to fine details like trees and leaves etc. If camera performance is important for you, then definitely look elsewhere. Shame on such a good phone otherwise.
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The trees and leaves needs an extremely low compression rate to maintain the fine details because of JPG problem(too old). However, the compression rate is often too high on all Sony phones. RAW image is very possible being a basic requirement on Android L according from Google speaking, so this problem might be solved in the future.
---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------
Iruwen said:
They did? I mean, you're not talking about the extended Android API but Sony's actual camera software?
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Why not? Android L is a total new OS so Sony is forced to rewrite anythings(though I believe Sony is lazy and actually doesn't want to do it... lol)
---------- Post added at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------
boojay said:
I'd like a source on this as well. It really is a shame that Sony's camera software isn't on par with the rest of this fantastic device despite the superior hardware. I understand manually adjusting the camera is a solution, but for the layperson who doesn't have the time nor the know-how to make those adjustments, a simpler solution is preferred and a revamp/improvement of their software would go a long way in achieving that.
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Sony keen to Fix Image Algorithms in Xperia Z3
http://smartphonetechie.com/sony-keen-to-fix-image-algorithms-in-xperia-z3/
The SA mode works good to me, the only problem on SA for most people because it very actively detects the handshake and switch to sport mode and turn up shutter speed and ISO in the end, it will ruin the overall quality and may increase/decrease the brightness in a wrong way but it will also help for folks who got seriously handshake.

TheEndHK said:
Sony keen to Fix Image Algorithms in Xperia Z3
http://smartphonetechie.com/sony-keen-to-fix-image-algorithms-in-xperia-z3/
The SA mode works good to me, the only problem on SA for most people because it very actively detects the handshake and switch to sport mode and turn up shutter speed and ISO in the end, it will ruin the overall quality and may increase/decrease the brightness in a wrong way but it will also help for folks who got seriously handshake.
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Ah, but from the sounds of it, the fix was supposed to come with the Z3 series, but clearly that never happened. Fingers crossed with Android L then, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

is the camera really that bad, all the reviews say its pretty good, not quite the gold standard iphone 6 level but close enough? The pics posted on this forum from the z3 compact look good too IMO.

[Q] Hope for the Nexus 6 Camera?

Alot of the reviews says, nexus 6 camera experience has been a "hit or miss" from taking a good pic even with HDR on. Would it help to install a new camera app and do some tweakings over it, or better yet use an xposed module (if any) to fix the issue?

I'm a photographer. Here's the thing.
Camera reviews on cell phones are reviewed by gadget freaks, not photographers. They're interested in specs, they think megapixels are important, they don't even mention the important stuff.
Android L is the first OS to have a decent camera api. This will allow the nexus camera - which is only inherently different from the note 4 camera in terms of software - to vastly outperform anything on the market given a good camera app.
This mythical camera app should take advantage of a few things - full manual control. Exposure compensation and AE/AF lock. Auto bracketing. Proper metering, with selections for spot through to matrix. FPS control. Video control with framerate and resolution options, and the ability to manually control or lock exposure and focus. And finally, take advantage of L's .dng output, so we can work on this in lightroom after we're done. I don't trust my $2000 camera to spit out a nice jpg processed the way I want it, I shoot raw, I sure as hell don't trust a phone.
The nexus 6 looks to have some nice hardware. Let the software take advantage of it and you'll be happy.

tripler6 said:
I'm a photographer. Here's the thing.
Camera reviews on cell phones are reviewed by gadget freaks, not photographers. They're interested in specs, they think megapixels are important, they don't even mention the important stuff.
Android L is the first OS to have a decent camera api. This will allow the nexus camera - which is only inherently different from the note 4 camera in terms of software - to vastly outperform anything on the market given a good camera app.
This mythical camera app should take advantage of a few things - full manual control. Exposure compensation and AE/AF lock. Auto bracketing. Proper metering, with selections for spot through to matrix. FPS control. Video control with framerate and resolution options, and the ability to manually control or lock exposure and focus. And finally, take advantage of L's .dng output, so we can work on this in lightroom after we're done. I don't trust my $2000 camera to spit out a nice jpg processed the way I want it, I shoot raw, I sure as hell don't trust a phone.
The nexus 6 looks to have some nice hardware. Let the software take advantage of it and you'll be happy.
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Good post. My girlfriend is a photographer but her biggest complaints were:
- The lens should've been bigger (1.5/3 at least - according to her the sheer size of this phone would have allowed for a much bigger lens, even 1.2/3).
- The dual LED flashes would likely overexpose the images due to their placement on the back of the phone. Sure, aesthetically it can look good (depending on your preference) but logically it will risk adding too much exposure to photos. The Note 4, 6+, top Nokia phones with large lenses all have the flashes further away from the lens for example (for good reason).
- The type of flash (LED) wont be as good an xenon flash (or dual). According to her the phone body is definitely thick enough to house the bigger flash; this would reduce noise in the images and provide better lighting/exposure in photos.
She also mentioned that even with a 10/10 camera app which does absolutely everything you want, the photo quality will not be much better (maybe the same as or potentially still worse) compared with the Note 4 or even iPhone 6+. Yes the hardware might be similar but the placement of the flash compared with the Note 4 will affect the way the camera captures photos with flash enabled. As, even though TW in Samsung has major issues it does have very heavily optimised camera software which will always improve - better than every camera app that I personally know of.
Front facing camera however will not complete with the Note 4. From demo's , despite being higher MP than the iPhone 6+, the results are worse. I do not know why, it could be down to the quality of the lens in the front but the Nexus 6 FF camera quality isn't much better than the Nexus 5 (it looks the same to me).

spartanm99 said:
Good post. My girlfriend is a photographer but her biggest complaints were:
- The lens should've been bigger (1.5/3 at least - according to her the sheer size of this phone would have allowed for a much bigger lens, even 1.2/3).
- The dual LED flashes would likely overexpose the images due to their placement on the back of the phone. Sure, aesthetically it can look good (depending on your preference) but logically it will risk adding too much exposure to photos. The Note 4, 6+, top Nokia phones with large lenses all have the flashes further away from the lens for example (for good reason).
- The type of flash (LED) wont be as good an xenon flash (or dual). According to her the phone body is definitely thick enough to house the bigger flash; this would reduce noise in the images and provide better lighting/exposure in photos.
She also mentioned that even with a 10/10 camera app which does absolutely everything you want, the photo quality will not be much better (maybe the same as or potentially still worse) compared with the Note 4 or even iPhone 6+. Yes the hardware might be similar but the placement of the flash compared with the Note 4 will affect the way the camera captures photos with flash enabled. As, even though TW in Samsung has major issues it does have very heavily optimised camera software which will always improve - better than every camera app that I personally know of.
Front facing camera however will not complete with the Note 4. From demo's , despite being higher MP than the iPhone 6+, the results are worse. I do not know why, it could be down to the quality of the lens in the front but the Nexus 6 FF camera quality isn't much better than the Nexus 5 (it looks the same to me).
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A lens is proportionate to the sensor. On top of that? It's a fixed lens. They can make those extremely small when we're talking about phone sensors. There is also no mechanical shutter, meaning the lens can be even more compact. This is why mirrorless cameras have small lenses. This of course goes for cell phone lenses in general, but the reason is there's really no need to put a huge lens on a phone.
The dual LED flashes won't overexpose the image, don't worry. In the studio we use a ring flash - same concept - there are some versions that operate as a regular flash, and there's some versions that operate constant on. You can shoot with either. Studio LED lighting is even becoming a thing now, it's cool because you can control the color temp directly and change the brightness.. it's also always on so WYSIWYG. Either way your flash will operate TTL and will not overexpose Xenon - what a hotshoe flash uses - will just use a lot of energy and drain your batteries. LED is very efficient.
The ring flash appears to be too small to have the "ring flash effect", which is uniform lighting around a subject that is popular in fashion and hides blemishes.. I mean it's like the size of a finger. The source of the flash is too small to produce any meaningful difference between the "ring" flash and the regular samsung/iphone flashes. It's going to look about the same. If you see a difference, it's software.

I am just excited about the RAW support in 5.0. I am okay with an f/2.0 aperture on a device in my pocket. If I needed something better, my DSLR has a 50mm f/1.5 which is only a camera bag away

The problem I'm having with my Nexus 6 is lag. That is, I went into my 9 month old's room, and turned on the light. So, okay incandescent lighting, not too bright, but I wouldn't call it 'low-light', either. My little son is standing up in his crib bouncing around, and every now and again turning and smiling at me. I go for the shot with my nice Nexus 6....and in the FOUR SECONDS it takes for the camera to actually take the picture, he's looked away again. I tried several times. Each time, the camera did NOTHING for a few seconds and then took the shot when the window of opportunity was gone. WHAT THE HECK?!?!?! It didn't even look like it was doing any autofocus hunting.
THIS is very depressing. Anyone know of any camera apps that will actually, I don't know, take the picture when I actually ask it to?
Randy

I'm waiting for devs to work their magic on the camera. It has a great sensor (Sony IMX214) so the potential is there. I really wish they could use the G3's software because its great. Is there a way to make the G3's software work on the Nexus for the camera? It processes images really well and is very fast.

rmagruder said:
The problem I'm having with my Nexus 6 is lag. That is, I went into my 9 month old's room, and turned on the light. So, okay incandescent lighting, not too bright, but I wouldn't call it 'low-light', either. My little son is standing up in his crib bouncing around, and every now and again turning and smiling at me. I go for the shot with my nice Nexus 6....and in the FOUR SECONDS it takes for the camera to actually take the picture, he's looked away again. I tried several times. Each time, the camera did NOTHING for a few seconds and then took the shot when the window of opportunity was gone. WHAT THE HECK?!?!?! It didn't even look like it was doing any autofocus hunting.
THIS is very depressing. Anyone know of any camera apps that will actually, I don't know, take the picture when I actually ask it to?
Randy
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Do you have HDR+ enabled? If so that's why your focus takes so long. It's taking 3 pictures in a row and is great for still images. I find the camera with HDR+ off plenty fast.
---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------
On another note is raw format already being supported on the 6 or is it coming in an update. I'm no photographer but I'm extremely pleased how well the camera functions. I've only had nexus devices. The last phone I had with a decent camera was the Nokia n 5

Smallsmx3 said:
Do you have HDR+ enabled? If so that's why your focus takes so long. It's taking 3 pictures in a row and is great for still images. I find the camera with HDR+ off plenty fast.
---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------
On another note is raw format already being supported on the 6 or is it coming in an update. I'm no photographer but I'm extremely pleased how well the camera functions. I've only had nexus devices. The last phone I had with a decent camera was the Nokia n 5
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No, HDR+ was NOT on, nor was the flash. I just wanted it to snap the stupid picture with as little muss n fuss as possible

I extracted the lib files and camera apk/odex from my g3 is there anything else I would need to make it work? I can get the framework from my system files if needed. I want to see if this will help the camera at all considering it had a lot of potential.

Pilz said:
I extracted the lib files and camera apk/odex from my g3 is there anything else I would need to make it work? I can get the framework from my system files if needed. I want to see if this will help the camera at all considering it had a lot of potential.
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Let us know how it goes

rmagruder said:
No, HDR+ was NOT on, nor was the flash. I just wanted it to snap the stupid picture with as little muss n fuss as possible
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Then something is broken on your phone. Completely stock N6, not even root let alone disabling encryption, without HDR+ or Flash... the phone takes pictures within half a second every time.

Smallsmx3 said:
Let us know how it goes
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Click to collapse
It's still FC's even after I moved the camera.apk and camera.odex into the system/app and I wrote over the Nexus's libs with the G3's. I'm not sure why its FC's maybe I can install the framework.apk from my G3 and see if that works.

Try some low light shots....

tripler6 said:
I'm a photographer. Here's the thing.
Camera reviews on cell phones are reviewed by gadget freaks, not photographers. They're interested in specs, they think megapixels are important, they don't even mention the important stuff.
Android L is the first OS to have a decent camera api. This will allow the nexus camera - which is only inherently different from the note 4 camera in terms of software - to vastly outperform anything on the market given a good camera app.
This mythical camera app should take advantage of a few things - full manual control. Exposure compensation and AE/AF lock. Auto bracketing. Proper metering, with selections for spot through to matrix. FPS control. Video control with framerate and resolution options, and the ability to manually control or lock exposure and focus. And finally, take advantage of L's .dng output, so we can work on this in lightroom after we're done. I don't trust my $2000 camera to spit out a nice jpg processed the way I want it, I shoot raw, I sure as hell don't trust a phone.
The nexus 6 looks to have some nice hardware. Let the software take advantage of it and you'll be happy.
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Click to collapse
Any chance for Slo Mo video (at least 120fps) with this "mythical camera app"?

rmagruder said:
Try some low light shots....
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I found this thread after searching for a better camera for my n6. Realized after reading your post that it is the low light shots that suffer from severe shutter lag. Pics in good light are perfect. Ugh. My original moto x Dev. Took awesome pics compared to this low light garbage

Cwoomer said:
I found this thread after searching for a better camera for my n6. Realized after reading your post that it is the low light shots that suffer from severe shutter lag. Pics in good light are perfect. Ugh. My original moto x Dev. Took awesome pics compared to this low light garbage
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The pics are great when you are in a very well lit place. The moment you start to lose even a little light (semi lit), the camera really struggles. I'm very disappointed to start, but I'm going to stay patient and wait for Google to fix this.

Pilz said:
I'm waiting for devs to work their magic on the camera. It has a great sensor (Sony IMX214) so the potential is there. I really wish they could use the G3's software because its great. Is there a way to make the G3's software work on the Nexus for the camera? It processes images really well and is very fast.
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The G3 is the best camera on a phone because of the hardware.. not sure if the software has much to do with it because I've switched camera apps on that phone many times and the pics still come out amazing

dannieloco said:
The G3 is the best camera on a phone because of the hardware.. not sure if the software has much to do with it because I've switched camera apps on that phone many times and the pics still come out amazing
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The G3 uses the IMX135 sensor while the Nexus uses the IMX214 which is a better sensor. So in theory the Nexus 6 is capable of better photos if the software can back it up. The G3 still uses the lib's and framework from LG no matter what camera app you are using from what I understand.

Anyone know anything about the Slo Mo capabilities? Im wanting to buy the N6 but the Slo Mo feature is really important to me. Hopefully it is possible with the sensor which everyone seems to regard as a pretty high quality sensor.

Thoughts on the XZ3 Camera (Auto Mode)

So for those who already own the XZ3, what are your thoughts so far on the camera??
For me, I've been happy with daytime photos and definitely the selfies are fantastic, but I'm not too happy with the low light shots, at least some of the time. While the XZ3 maintains Sony's ability to be VERY color accurate (unlike Samsung and Apple, and maybe LG sometimes?), it seems so far in low light it doesn't fare all that well.
What do you think? If you've found a way to improve the camera, ESP in low light conditions, please let us know what settings you implemented, or tricks you used. Also mention which mode you're in, though I'd prefer to keep this on Auto only, I will be open to Manual Mode suggestions as well.
Thank you!!

As I said on my previous post, the only thing I hate is the lens flare. Other than that, I'm pretty much satisfied with the camera.

This is from iArvee, who posted it in another thread:
"Comparing it to my XZP, I find the XZ3 to be better, especially in low light photos. Low light photos come out more clear, and less smudged in comparison with the XZP. However, I hate that there's a huge lens flare when taking photos in both low light or daylight."
That's cool! I too notice the lens flare, and have been in some cases lowering the brightness while in Auto mode to compensate. To elaborate more on what I said above, in low light, it just seems like the XZ3 in most cases keeps color accuracy but the details are smeared out more than they should be. I wonder if I don't have the best settings up, but Auto is limited there, so I dunno. To elaborate, here are some pics b/t my LG V30 (which uses the modded GCam ((same camera app found in the Pixel phones)) app) and the XZ3.
Thoughts? Any way I can make these better?? In both cases, the LG ones with GCam app seems to be more detailed. Though in other shots the Sony was better. The ones with the clock........zoom into the Glenlivet liquor box. Which one looks better to you? (Note: Waive mouse over each pic to see if it's LG or Sony.)
Note: I apologize for the Sony pics being rotated over. I have no idea why this is happening. lol Feel free to download the pics and rotate them accordingly if you wish for comparison's sake.

Here are some additional pics. Waive over each pic to see which phone took it (again, LG is NOT using stock but modded GCam app in Auto) and also the mode.
Looks to me that the Sony in Auto mode won out here, where the LG couldn't quite keep up.
The Sony Manual mode pics (HDR off and HDR on) came out the worst, proving that Manual mode isn't always better. Unfortunately, XDA isn't letting me upload those, but I can tell you they came out VERY dark and inferior to the two that did get uploaded to this message.
Thoughts?

I love how the colors turn out in low light. Sony delivers there for years. I also don't bother a bit of noise as long as the chroma noise is eliminated. But it is the end of 2018, they need to step up the game in Computational Photography. Something like a night mode on Huawei or Pixel Phones is missing. Something like HDR+. And functional Portrait modes.
If the Google Camera worked on the XZ3, it could be the best camera phone on the market. This sensors performance on high iso is sick. Gcam makes heavy use of multiple high iso shots and merges them together to increase the dynamic range and reduce the noise. So this sensor is kind of made for something like gcam.
A real portrait mode is also missing. The selfie one is ok, sharp but really flat looking, and making a lot of mistakes bluring out the background. But the downloadable portrait mode for the rear camera is total garbage.
Even though Sony App improved a lot compared to previous iterations, it feels like it is still 2 or 3 years behind.
I'd pay 100€ to get the gcam working on this phone. I'm pretty sure it will rock!

I'm satisfied with it but it doesn't hold a candle to the Xperia XZ2 Premium camera. I wish Sony would put all the best features into one device and call that the flagship. Xperia XZ2 Premium has a dual lens camera and 4K. The Xperia XZ3 has OLED screen. Make one device, with all the best features, and sell that. As it is, I carry the XZ3 to use as my phone and watch videos and carry the XZ2 Premium if I will be taking pictures.

madphone said:
I love how the colors turn out in low light. Sony delivers there for years. I also don't bother a bit of noise as long as the chroma noise is eliminated. But it is the end of 2018, they need to step up the game in Computational Photography. Something like a night mode on Huawei or Pixel Phones is missing. Something like HDR+. And functional Portrait modes.
If the Google Camera worked on the XZ3, it could be the best camera phone on the market. This sensors performance on high iso is sick. Gcam makes heavy use of multiple high iso shots and merges them together to increase the dynamic range and reduce the noise. So this sensor is kind of made for something like gcam.
A real portrait mode is also missing. The selfie one is ok, sharp but really flat looking, and making a lot of mistakes bluring out the background. But the downloadable portrait mode for the rear camera is total garbage.
Even though Sony App improved a lot compared to previous iterations, it feels like it is still 2 or 3 years behind.
I'd pay 100€ to get the gcam working on this phone. I'm pretty sure it will rock!
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Click to collapse
I love the phone overall, and camera overall too. But when it comes to details, it's not as good as it should be. So I agree with you there that they need to step it up for sure!
Case in point............here are some more daytime pics I took earlier today (attached). The outdoor pics are superior to what I took on my LG V30 with modded GCam app (yes, I WISH there was one for Xperia!!!! lol), but when I come indoors, the XZ3 disappoints. When you zoom in, even with the movies one, it just doesn't look all that great. I'm honestly having second thoughts about keeping it sadly.
I even tried out some other camera apps off Google Play Store. NONE of them were as good as Sony's stock software, but that's not saying much. For overall pics, and also selfies (EVEN nighttime selfies), the XZ3 is fantastic. For wanting detail, it still isn't up to par despite it being a 2018 flagship.
Thoughts?

augie7107 said:
I'm satisfied with it but it doesn't hold a candle to the Xperia XZ2 Premium camera. I wish Sony would put all the best features into one device and call that the flagship. Xperia XZ2 Premium has a dual lens camera and 4K. The Xperia XZ3 has OLED screen. Make one device, with all the best features, and sell that. As it is, I carry the XZ3 to use as my phone and watch videos and carry the XZ2 Premium if I will be taking pictures.
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Interesting. Very helpful post!
Let me ask you augie, how was the XZ2 P when it came to detail, both in daytime and low light vs. the XZ3 (please see my last post before answering)?? I am very interested in your opinion there. Please feel free to be AS DETAILED as possible!
Yeah it sux b/c the XZ2 P is 16:9, and I really really like 18:9 phones. But they couldn't make 4K in an 18:9 phone with the 845 chip I guess. So the XZ3 P next year will offer that up instead as I believe the 855 will be able to handle that. If I don't keep my XZ3, I may just wait for the XZ3 P then.
Wow ok. You shouldn't have to do that, but I guess you got the best of both worlds at least! lol

RockStar2005 said:
Interesting. Very helpful post!
Let me ask you augie, how was the XZ2 P when it came to detail, both in daytime and low light vs. the XZ3 (please see my last post before answering)?? I am very interested in your opinion there. Please feel free to be AS DETAILED as possible!
Yeah it sux b/c the XZ2 P is 16:9, and I really really like 18:9 phones. But they couldn't make 4K in an 18:9 phone with the 845 chip I guess. So the XZ3 P next year will offer that up instead as I believe the 855 will be able to handle that. If I don't keep my XZ3, I may just wait for the XZ3 P then.
Wow ok. You shouldn't have to do that, but I guess you got the best of both worlds at least! lol
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Click to collapse
As always, good to hear from you. I will provide a detailed response with examples tomorrow. The short of it, XZ2P is the best Sony low light/night time camera I have had on a Sony phone. The 51200 max ISO makes this possible. Great point on the 4K screen ratio issue but what is stopping them from putting a dual lens camera with higher ISO in the XZ3?

augie7107 said:
As always, good to hear from you. I will provide a detailed response with examples tomorrow. The short of it, XZ2P is the best Sony low light/night time camera I have had on a Sony phone. The 51200 max ISO makes this possible. Great point on the 4K screen ratio issue but what is stopping them from putting a dual lens camera with higher ISO in the XZ3?
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Click to collapse
Likewise old friend! Been a while too. Hope you're doin' alright!
Ok that's cool. I await that post!
Oh yeah that's right.........51200 max ISO! The XZ3's max is 12800. So that makes sense why the XZ2 P's would be so much better. I just REALLY wish they also had ISO on ALL these cameras. Then I believe they would be unstoppable. But Sony Mobile is SO damn stubborn about OIS. But hey, let's RANDOMLY put it on the XA2 Ultra's FRONT cam only!!! Not the main camera, or any of the ACTUAL flagships! Cuz that would be too weird and insane to conceive!! lol
I have NO idea why they didn't continue using dual lenses augie. But at this point I've made a final decision to return my XZ3. The main reason I'd say is the camera thing. But also, T-Mobile's about to get a new radio band, Band 71/600 MHz, and Sony didn't program it on this phone, so although I get Band 12, I won't get 71 when it does if I keep the XZ3. If they'd CERTIFIED it with T-Mobile then I would, or else if they wanted to ACTUALLY remove their heads FULLY out of their a$$es, they'd get with ALL the major carriers here and actually sell some phones! I've seen charts that show that the same time they stopped dealing with T-Mo and Verizon (2015) is when their sales here started to plummet. Coincidence? I think not. lol It just sux cuz I really love this phone.
Again, I look forward to your XZ2 P pics tomorrow. In addition though, can you tell me, is there anything CAMERA-wise that the XZ3 does better than the XZ2 P? I'm kinda hoping not, but I thought I'd read they made further improvements. Ughh I dunno! lol

Here are some samples from XZ2P. I am a photography novice but I thought these low-light pictures were the best I have captured with a Sony phone

augie7107 said:
Here are some samples from XZ2P. I am a photography novice but I thought these low-light pictures were the best I have captured with a Sony phone
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Click to collapse
Wow!! Gorgeous man. Thanks for sharing!
So again, was there ANYTHING about the XZ3's camera that you thought was actually better vs. the XZ2 P's?

RockStar2005 said:
Wow!! Gorgeous man. Thanks for sharing!
So again, was there ANYTHING about the XZ3's camera that you thought was actually better vs. the XZ2 P's?
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There isn't, XZ2P camera is far superior in my humble opinion. Again, a photography novice so simply my preference is stated.

augie7107 said:
There isn't, XZ2P camera is far superior in my humble opinion. Again, a photography novice so simply my preference is stated.
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Ok. That's what I was expecting you to say too. lol
Very sad!! But also, hopeful for the XZ3 P!!!!! :good:
Let me ask you, if you have time, can you take some new pics with the XZ2 P of something specific? I'd like to see some close-up pics (within 5-7 feet) of anything with writing on it............boxes, DVD/Blu-Ray movie containers, etc. In low-light would be preferred, just to see how the XZ2 P handles it vs. the XZ3's weak a$$ for this. lol
Thank you!!!!!
In other random news lol.

Oneplus 7 pro Nightscape vs Gcam app comparison *very disappointing*

Hello everyone,
I have been using my oneplus 7 pro for a few hours now, overall it's a great phone.
My only complaint so far is Nightscape mode, it takes awful photos, I downloaded Gcam *Google camera* and tested it out for a bit, what I could get out of this is that in comparison with Nightscape mode, Gcam takes it's time taking the picture, while Nightscape mode is done in a second, this is very strange, as a result I get white dots in my photos, as you can see in the images I uploaded.
When I went into settings on Gcam, I found out that it only uses 12mp, I don't understand why this is happening.
Can any of you make a similar comparison and share it in this thread?
Thank you

personally i like the OP photo, colors look way better, less noise. sure its not as bright but come on, it looks pitch black.
do some post processing and im sure youll get a better image than GCAM.
what do you expect from phones?

People keep saying they're disappointed in the camera, but it sounds like they're really just disappointed in the Oneplus camera app. Clearly the camera is capable of good things, based on the GCam user experiences, so what is there to be upset about?

This are my samples, the darkest one is the stock in auto mode, the slight brighter one is the nightscape mode, and the brightest is gcam night sight

Slapyou said:
People keep saying they're disappointed in the camera, but it sounds like they're really just disappointed in the Oneplus camera app. Clearly the camera is capable of good things, based on the GCam user experiences, so what is there to be upset about?
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I totally agree with you, but this has been a issue in the past, now we have "2.0" and Google camera is still better.
The white dots are very strange, I see them in every photo I take with the original camera app in Nightscape mode.

Other phones will never be able to take the same photos as a Pixel phone, there's an additional processor that was added to those phones called the Pixel Visual Core, due to this, comparing shots isn't very helpful as the two devices will not be on an equal playing field. They don't even have the same camera models.
That additional image processor will also be the reason that the Pixel's night time images are far superior.

djsubterrain said:
Other phones will never be able to take the same photos as a Pixel phone, there's an additional processor that was added to those phones called the Pixel Visual Core, due to this, comparing shots isn't very helpful as the two devices will not be on an equal playing field. They don't even have the same camera models.
That additional image processor will also be the reason that the Pixel's night time images are far superior.
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Click to collapse
The Pixel 3a and 3a XL don't have the Pixel Visual Core yet they are taking pictures the same as the Pixel 3 and 3 XL.
So would it be a fair playing field to compare to the Pixel 3a?

MrFriendlyAssman said:
I totally agree with you, but this has been a issue in the past, now we have "2.0" and Google camera is still better.
The white dots are very strange, I see them in every photo I take with the original camera app in Nightscape mode.
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Click to collapse
so if you had the S10 plus you'd have the same complaint right?
stop comparing everything to googles camera, its getting tiring - google has the visual core, and optimize the hell out of their post processing algo's not even huawei does what the pixels do
i have a pixel 3xl and the op7pro and 99% of the time you can barely tell the difference (on latest 9.5.5) and with the difference you can see you can easily compensate via post processing like snapseed to get the desired look.
and personally, i liked the OP nightscape, it looked more in-focus, colors looked true and the gcam blew out the lamp post.
just wait for a working port of gcam and use that instead. but im getting tired of people complaining and comparing to the pixel 3xl, day shots are identical, you cant expect every phone to perform the same in low light/night.
also look at the gcam vs op nightsight, you realize they both expose the same details in the scene, OP does a better job at keeping neutral lighting while pixel bumps the contrast and highlights up eventhough they both show the EXACT SAME SCENE.
the next person to compare the pixel camera to the OP is going to make me burn my pixel 3xl in a fire pit.
dont make me do it
---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------
MrFriendlyAssman said:
I totally agree with you, but this has been a issue in the past, now we have "2.0" and Google camera is still better.
The white dots are very strange, I see them in every photo I take with the original camera app in Nightscape mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
turn off "scene content detection" and watch the magic happen

MrFriendlyAssman said:
I totally agree with you, but this has been a issue in the past, now we have "2.0" and Google camera is still better.
The white dots are very strange, I see them in every photo I take with the original camera app in Nightscape mode.
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Click to collapse
2.0 what? Are you talking about night mode 2.0? If so that has nothing to do with nightscape, capturing photos or anything to do with the camera at all. Night mode 2.0 is an upgrade to the night mode for your screen to be turned Amber at night time. Has nothing to do with the camera at all.

S10 Astrophotography!

Hello everyone, I'm here to ask you if you have had experience with astrophotography and S10, more specifically capturing pictures of night sky, or even Milky Way. My first experience of astrophotography and smartphone was with Galaxy S7, I could take nice photos of stars (Milky way was impossible to shoot). I have tried with S10 and same settings in Pro Mode (10 seconds exposition, more or less same ISO and White Balance), but the result has not been the same, pictures are even worse (more noise, stars not clear as in S7's pictures). I'm glad to know if you have more experience with this, because after Pixel 4 and P30 Pro I asked myself if S10 can take the same pictures. For example, GCam's new version has an own function for astrophotography, it would be nice if even S10 can have his version through porting.

Poor Astrophotography
lorenzo122 said:
Hello everyone, I'm here to ask you if you have had experience with astrophotography and S10, more specifically capturing pictures of night sky, or even Milky Way. My first experience of astrophotography and smartphone was with Galaxy S7, I could take nice photos of stars (Milky way was impossible to shoot). I have tried with S10 and same settings in Pro Mode (10 seconds exposition, more or less same ISO and White Balance), but the result has not been the same, pictures are even worse (more noise, stars not clear as in S7's pictures). I'm glad to know if you have more experience with this, because after Pixel 4 and P30 Pro I asked myself if S10 can take the same pictures. For example, GCam's new version has an own function for astrophotography, it would be nice if even S10 can have his version through porting.
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Click to collapse
I have the Galaxy Note 10 plus, and likewise, I too have been deeply disappointed with the astrophotography results. My settings were essentially identical to yours using 'Pro' mode, and I believe the camera technology in our two phones is exactly the same. Even the raw pictures displayed terrible artifacts. I'm not sure if 'banding' or 'contouring' would correctly describe what I saw, but the sky was broken up into sections that looked something like a jigsaw puzzle put together.
Eric

Calm down guys, i understand your dissapointment, but this astrophotography trend started way after the s10 family came to the market... Anyway, it's more of a "software trick" than anything related to hardware itself, so we can almost certanly expect Sammy will add that feature via software update. I believe it will come with android 10. Why you may ask, well because they already added 30s exposure time in android10 beta... So it's not farfetched to believe some kind of astrophotography mode is coming. But take notice, even on other phones that do support it, you apsolutely need a tripod or some kind of stative, the phone has to be very still to enable astrophotography...

Yup very disappointing ive also tried it even with TRIPOD! the stars become blurry (pro mode 10 sec) so sad.. maybe they will fix it sometime.. (google pixel is good, P30 is over saturation- still look good and alot better then S10, some will like it over the pixel)

Like i said, we will most probbably get the astrophotography mode, it's just a matter of time, but i see no reason why you can't capture great pictures of the night sky with pro mode. Especially if you know the right settings and have a tripod. I took some amazing pics way back with my old S7, now with S10 they come out even better... Btw, you can't capture the Milky Way unless you are in complete darkness and away from any light pollution...
I didn't have the time to test the new pro mode (30sec exposure) in android10 beta, but i will soon. If you want i can send you links so you can see some of my photos for yourself.

I'm calm...
Thank you for your input, and fear not I was not hyperventilating. I shoot astrophotography from time to time with my Nikon DSLR's and occasionally linking that up with my Meade ETX-125 telescope.
So I have a solid foundation and understanding of the hardware requirements to properly shoot the night sky. I have also enjoyed using my Galaxy Note 10 plus with the Zhiyun Smooth 4 gimbal along with the excellent Filmic Pro software (app).
Would not have purchased that additional equipment had I not been extremely impressed with the optics of the camera technology in these phones both in terms of video and still photography. I never thought smartphones would be competitive with prosumer camera technology but under certain circumstances no question we have reached that point. It is with those higher expectations, that led me to be surprised when the quality took a nosedive when attempting to shoot long exposure night photography. I always attempt to shoot with the longest exposure and the lowest ISO to minimize noise.
But the final results were still riddled with noise and artifacts, even the raw output. I'm not upset by this, in fact as recently as a year ago I would not have even thought of attempting this with a smartphone. So I just chalk it up to reaching the limitations of where things are at this moment. I will be interested to explore the Android update to which you referred and maybe that will greatly improve things. Under normal circumstances, I'm still amazed at the capabilities are these cameras.

dryslot said:
Thank you for your input, and fear not I was not hyperventilating. I shoot astrophotography from time to time with my Nikon DSLR's and occasionally linking that up with my Meade ETX-125 telescope.
So I have a solid foundation and understanding of the hardware requirements to properly shoot the night sky. I have also enjoyed using my Galaxy Note 10 plus with the Zhiyun Smooth 4 gimbal along with the excellent Filmic Pro software (app).
Would not have purchased that additional equipment had I not been extremely impressed with the optics of the camera technology in these phones both in terms of video and still photography. I never thought smartphones would be competitive with prosumer camera technology but under certain circumstances no question we have reached that point. It is with those higher expectations, that led me to be surprised when the quality took a nosedive when attempting to shoot long exposure night photography. I always attempt to shoot with the longest exposure and the lowest ISO to minimize noise.
But the final results were still riddled with noise and artifacts, even the raw output. I'm not upset by this, in fact as recently as a year ago I would not have even thought of attempting this with a smartphone. So I just chalk it up to reaching the limitations of where things are at this moment. I will be interested to explore the Android update to which you referred and maybe that will greatly improve things. Under normal circumstances, I'm still amazed at the capabilities are these cameras.
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Click to collapse
Nice to know you're calm , it was nothing more than a figure of speech - i bet you already knew that
Anyway, i wrongly asumed i was dealing with a rookie but it's nice to see you know a great deal about night photography... As i sad, i really doubt Pixel has better optics or camera hardware in general in comparison to a Galaxy S10/N10, it all comes down to software as we all know. IMO, Google has mastered night photos and now astrophotography mainly because of their Ai software/hardware technology and ofcourse the sheer experience. They are after all "in the forefront of AI"... Also, i believe Samsung could do something similar if they wanted, it all depends on the market and popularity of that specific feature. They don't lack the funds as they invest billions in R&D. Ofcourse i could be wrong, this is just my opinion.

Which lens/sensor are you using for this? Telephoto lens/sensor is weaker in low light situations (smaller sensor, smaller aperture).
I have also an S7 Edge and the night mode of the S10 is indeed comparable (identical sensor?). But that's only the normal wide sensor/lens!
Specs S10 main:
12 MP, f/1.5-2.4, 26mm (wide), 1/2.55", 1.4µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, OIS
12 MP, f/2.4, 52mm (telephoto), 1/3.6", 1.0µm, AF, OIS, 2x optical zoom
16 MP, f/2.2, 12mm (ultrawide), 1.0µm, Super Steady video
Specs S7 main:
12 MP, f/1.7, 26mm (wide), 1/2.55", 1.4µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, OIS

LOL, I would bet money that the average buyer of the S10 even knows or cares what astrophotography is. If it's that important to someone then I'd suggest researching phones and buying one that does this rather than being disappointed in something the phone wasn't designed for. Hell, that Samsung engineer sitting in that little cubicle in Seoul, South Korea probably doesn't give a rat's a** whether that phone will take pictures of the stars or not.

What about Gcam mod, that has built in astrophotography which I think works only on Android 10 for some version of Gcam.

Hmm... quality improved
So after I ran across this thread, I went out again last night for kicks, and the artifacts were greatly reduced. Still noisy/grainy, but to be expected from almost any camera not carefully configured for these challenging circumstances. I'm wondering if one of the several OS updates I've had since the first attempt two months ago contributed?
To Kemby13: Of course, no problem, your posts were great and helpful. I couldn't resist a little tongue-in-cheek myself.
To Sonic 67: Great tips and worth double-checking that.
To Tel 864: I'm rather certain you would win that bet. For my part, just interesting to push the limits on the latest tech. And I like knowing if I'm ever in a pinch if it's even worth the trouble pulling it out of my pocket.
To Ndaoud360: Reading up on that now, thank you very much!

How exactly do you get stars in focus? Also, no matter what I have tried there is no way around getting the exposure to go over 10s!
Could you please share your method for astro on s10? I have the snapdragon version as well. Thanks.

everybodylovesfebs said:
How exactly do you get stars in focus? Also, no matter what I have tried there is no way around getting the exposure to go over 10s!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need to, or the sky will "move". The trick is using a telescope or even a binocular to gather more light. Use higher ISO if needed.
https://www.amazon.com/binoculars-camera-adapter/s?k=binoculars+camera+adapter

Specs
Hello everyone , i have s10 and i am really interested in astrophotography. I a very hyped for new update(one ui2.0) because in leaks there is astrophotography mode. So before this software is launched, please guys can you suggest what settings should i use to record night sky??
Thank you in advance

I think the problem is on optical stabilizer itself. Even on dslr cam you need to turn off oss when using a tripod. thats why we get blurry pic on s10 -10s shutter. I can take a better night sky pic using vivo v17 pro. Coz the software of the phone give us a real Pro mode. I cant wait a long 30s shutter and more serious pro mode of samsung update in a future for our s10 family.