Database Develop

Alternatives to the V²

While the V² may end up being an amazing phone, some of us can't wait for it to be released. (If it ever will be.)
This thread is for those who are looking for a phone with similar specs to the V².
Please keep this thread clean. Let's all be kind and respectful of others' opinions. :good:

Cullenator said:
While the V² may end up being an amazing phone, some of us can't wait for it to be released. (If it ever will be.)
This thread is for those who are looking for a phone with similar specs to the V².
Please keep this thread clean. Let's all be kind and respectful of others' opinions. :good:
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Click to collapse
I have been looking and looking and looking. There isnt one. This is my dream phone:
- LG G2 sized, so 5.2" with small bezels.
- Removable, high capacity battery (3000mah+)
- Removable storage or affordable 64gb size
- Built in wireless charging
- 3gb+ ram
- Newer SoC
- Good camera with OIS
Thats it. Not asking for the moon. I can find some of those things in huge 5.5" + phones like the G4. I guess I will be getting used to a big phone again.
---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------
This is probably as close as I am going to get if the rumored specs are true: http://www.androidpit.com/nexus-5-2015-price-release-date-specs-features

shaxs said:
I have been looking and looking and looking. There isnt one. This is my dream phone:
- LG G2 sized, so 5.2" with small bezels.
- Removable, high capacity battery (3000mah+)
- Removable storage or affordable 64gb size
- Built in wireless charging
- 3gb+ ram
- Newer SoC
- Good camera with OIS
Thats it. Not asking for the moon. I can find some of those things in huge 5.5" + phones like the G4. I guess I will be getting used to a big phone again.
---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------
This is probably as close as I am going to get if the rumored specs are true: http://www.androidpit.com/nexus-5-2015-price-release-date-specs-features
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Click to collapse
I hear ya, dude; I'm hoping the V2 makes it, but I can't wait unfortunately; my S3 is nearly dead. So yeah, we'll see. The G4 looks close, but it's way too big for me. Maybe the new Nexus will be almost as awesome as the proposed V2? We'll see.

Here are the features that made me pre-order the Saygus V². These are in particular order.
5" 1080p sunlight viewable screen. 2.5K resolution is overkill and just eats battery and I don't like phones with screens larger than 5".
Large removable battery.
Small bezels. This means the phone doesn't have a large footprint for it's screen size like the iPhone or Sony Z series.
64gb built in storage.
microSD slot. Dual wasn't important to me but having expandable memory was.
Optical image stabilization. It was nice that both cameras have it but I really wanted it in the main camera.
Waterproof.
Snapdragon 801.
3gb RAM.
The closest thing to this is the upcoming Galaxy S6 Active except the screen size is slightly large for my taste and it has 2.5K resolution. I can live with the built in battery if it's 3500mAh.
I was really hoping that Google would make a new version of the Nexus 5 with basically the same specs as the Nexus 6 except with a 5" 1080p screen. The only drawback to the Nexus series is that we almost definitely won't see one with a microSD card slot. I'm still surprised that Google didn't get someone to build an updated Nexus 5 yet, especially with the launch of Project Fi.
<rant>I wish the Android smartphone manufacturers (i.e. LG, OnePlus, etc) would realize that the majority of people don't want a screen over 5.5" and larger. How do I know this? Because Apple make the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus which have almost the exact same specs except for the screen size and resolution and based on this article 80% of the iPhone 6 models sold are the 4.7" version with the other 20% being the 5.5" version. If customers really wanted a smartphone with a really large screen then they'd be buying the 5.5" iPhone 6 Plus more than the 4.7" iPhone 6.</rant>

I originally was going to buy an S6, against my better judgement, until I found I could not buy a 128GB version, even from the AT&T store. I've considered the S5, but I can't find an unlocked 32GB version that works on 4G. I considered the Note 4, but I really don't want a phablet, and that's a lot of money to spend on a phone I feel I won't like due to its size. Also, it frustrates me that two of the main alternatives to the S6 I considered due to the S6's lack of expandable storage and removable battery are both Samsung's, so even if I did go with one of them, I would still be giving them money. Before any of this, I was looking at the Sony Xperia Z4, until that turned out to be a letdown, and then the Sony Xperia Z3, but again there is no 32GB unlocked version. Despite my hatred of Motorola, I even considered the Droid Turbo/Maxx, until I realized it lacks expandable storage. The G4 looks ok, but it's a bit large for my taste (though supposedly not as bad as other 5.5" phones), I really don't think I'd like the buttons on the back, and there are no real reviews yet of it. Not to mention it irritates me they're releasing two other "G4" versions that are nothing like the G4, but rather are stripped down junk. The Zenphone 2 is big and just seems cheap, which I get it is a cheap phone, but still. The S6 Active may end up being the closest thing to perfect, but I don't know how I'll like the physical buttons, and I think I'd rather it be less bulky so people that want the extra protection can use a case, but leave that up to the individual. I've pre-ordered the Elephone P7000, which looks like a really good phone for the price, but again, no 32GB version. Still, for the price, I can live with that for a few months until something better comes out. So many phones that are almost great, but fall short. I've been searching high and low for the past 2-3 months and it's getting tiresome. I'd love some other ideas, but I doubt anybody can point me to something I don't already know about.

My ideal phone matches up very much the same. If Samsung released a plastic body S4 v2 with more RAM, more built-in storage, updated CPU, 5" 1080p screen with otherwise S6 qualities, UFS 2.0, etc., while retaining the S4 size/weight, removable battery, and SD slot, I'd have little hesitation buying it, even if it cost the same as the S6. Doooosen't look like they're going to do that. A phone's looks don't matter to me, and I actually prefer the plastic body for weight and toughness factors. Doesn't have to be Samsung, but I've had an S4 for two years and having handling many phones, I find it gives the best fit in my hand while having an adequate sized screen of any phone yet.
The Saygus, if it proves to be the real deal, it's actually in the right size range and is loaded with so many features (2x SD is my favorite) that it has no real competition for my needs. As it stands, I'm most likely going to have to hold my nose and get a 128GB S6, which for me has no real competition as Plan B. I have no regrets with my S4 or S2, to me they were clearly the best phones for me on the market at time of purchase. But I want to vote with my wallet against the S6 because the removal of (to me) major features, but I might not have a suitable option. Also, I'm on TMOUS and most of the decent non-carrier devices won't work with their LTE bands and I'd lose WiFi Calling, so it's pretty much between Samsung, LG, Sony, HTC, Alcatel, and Nexus. The S5 and M9 look like the next best options. The Saygus is the only outside phone under consideration at this point.

hella356 said:
The S5 and M9 look like the next best options. The Saygus is the only outside phone under consideration at this point.
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I have the LG G2 and at less than $200 for a new off contract phone it really is hard to beat. I considered the S5 only because it can have wireless charging added fairly easily, but the ROM support for the S5 isnt as good. But if they offered the S5 with 3gb ram, I think I would be in.

shaxs said:
I have the LG G2 and at less than $200 for a new off contract phone it really is hard to beat. I considered the S5 only because it can have wireless charging added fairly easily, but the ROM support for the S5 isnt as good. But if they offered the S5 with 3gb ram, I think I would be in.
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Thanks, the G2 might be the best short-term option. TMo has refurb G2s for $228 & no money down & $9.50/month. It's the other end of the spectrum in price with the S6, amongst phones without SD and removable battery. Only 32GB is a big step down from my S4, but for daily usage it would probably be fine. Having lots of extra storage and batteries is brilliant when needed, like spending the day in an airport and having tons of locally stored music/movie choices, but most of the time as a DD can be lived without. Other negatives: a little larger and heavier, and non-AMOLED screen. On the plus side, it's got a bit better CPU and larger screen size than the S4. And a lot cheaper than the S6, S5, M9. If it had SD and removable battery, it would be a no-brainer.
I broke my S4 screen and replaced it myself with a $6 piece of glass off ebay. It's worked great considering the price, but it's more reflective and the touch input is far from perfect. It's still functional, but annoying, & $9.50/month is pretty light, so I think I'll give that a shot. They have a 15 day trial period, too. In the long run, worst case scenario, I end up with a spare phone / mini WiFi tablet that only cost $228.

vertigo_2_20 said:
I originally was going to buy an S6, against my better judgement, until I found I could not buy a 128GB version, even from the AT&T store. I've considered the S5, but I can't find an unlocked 32GB version that works on 4G. I considered the Note 4, but I really don't want a phablet, and that's a lot of money to spend on a phone I feel I won't like due to its size. Also, it frustrates me that two of the main alternatives to the S6 I considered due to the S6's lack of expandable storage and removable battery are both Samsung's, so even if I did go with one of them, I would still be giving them money. Before any of this, I was looking at the Sony Xperia Z4, until that turned out to be a letdown, and then the Sony Xperia Z3, but again there is no 32GB unlocked version. Despite my hatred of Motorola, I even considered the Droid Turbo/Maxx, until I realized it lacks expandable storage. The G4 looks ok, but it's a bit large for my taste (though supposedly not as bad as other 5.5" phones), I really don't think I'd like the buttons on the back, and there are no real reviews yet of it. Not to mention it irritates me they're releasing two other "G4" versions that are nothing like the G4, but rather are stripped down junk. The Zenphone 2 is big and just seems cheap, which I get it is a cheap phone, but still. The S6 Active may end up being the closest thing to perfect, but I don't know how I'll like the physical buttons, and I think I'd rather it be less bulky so people that want the extra protection can use a case, but leave that up to the individual. I've pre-ordered the Elephone P7000, which looks like a really good phone for the price, but again, no 32GB version. Still, for the price, I can live with that for a few months until something better comes out. So many phones that are almost great, but fall short. I've been searching high and low for the past 2-3 months and it's getting tiresome. I'd love some other ideas, but I doubt anybody can point me to something I don't already know about.
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I went through a similar decision making process except I never considered getting the Galaxy S6 after they got rid of the microSD slot, reduced the battery capacity and made it built in and didn't make it waterproof. Back in 2014 when the Galaxy S5 was released, I was also waiting for T-Mobile to release the 32gb version (even though it has expandable storage) because I was worried about running into storage issues for apps (because many apps can't be moved to a microSD card with KitKat) but none of the US carriers ever released the Galaxy S5 with 32gb. AFAIK only the international version was released with 32gb storage. Then after I learned that T-Mobile was rolling out LTE on band 12 (700 MHz block A) and the Galaxy S5 didn't support it then I wasn't interested in it anymore. Then I looked at the T-Mobile version of the Sony Xperia Z3 (which supports LTE on band 12) but those huge bezels really bothered me. It's a phone with a 5.2" screen that's almost as big as the Galaxy Note 4 which has a 5.7" screen. I decided to wait for the Xperia Z4 hoping that it would have optical image stabilization but unfortunately it didn't. Most recently I considered the HTC One M9 because it IMHO had the perfect screen size/resolution 5" 1080p, top of the line Snapdragon 810 processor, 32gb storage, microSD card slot, decent size battery but unfortunately no optical image stabilization in the camera. The Elephone P7000 looks interesting for the price but it looks like it's basically an upgraded OnePlus One but a 5.5" screen is just too big for me.

Options
The ZTE Nubia Z9 Mini looks like a very good option for those of you that are running current devices that are a couple of years old, but I don't think it offers enough of an upgrade from my Z3 Compact for me to consider. But, given the expected price and general specs I think this would be a great choice for most people. There is a little bit of me that is tempted to go for this device just to scratch my 'must buy a new phone' itch!
The Nubia Z9 (not Mini or Max, confusing nomenclature!) also looks like a well specced device, but there seems to be uncertainty about whether this has an SD card slot, plus it runs the Snapdragon 810 which seems to be a rather tainted SoC from what I read everywhere.
The Sharp Aquos Xx also looks interesting, 84% screen ratio but again Snapdragon 810 and I've no idea whether Sharp make decent phones or not...

Any options with dual boot phones
For me the main reason to order Saygus V² was the dual boot option, with the possibility to boot from microsd card. Is anyone aware of other smartphones with this feature?

hella356 said:
I actually prefer the plastic body for weight and toughness factors.
I want to vote with my wallet against the S6 because the removal of (to me) major features
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+1 on both counts
lukec36 said:
The ZTE Nubia Z9 Mini looks like a very good option
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Not for me. Non-removable battery, which I would be willing to overlook if all else was good and it had Quick Charge, but it does not (of course, all else being equal, I will always choose the phone with the removable battery, and if I were to buy one without, it would be a temp phone until a different one with a removable battery came out). Also, only 16GB internal memory is NOT enough. 32GB is minimum for me. The ONLY reason I ever got rid of my EVO 4G was because I was constantly getting low memory errors, and I don't want to deal with that again. I don't want to settle for a phone with less than 32GB internal and less than 96GB total memory, even a temporary one. At least the P7000 is very cheap and has otherwise good specs and a removable battery, so the internal memory is the only big sacrifice. Unfortunately, it looks like that one is out, too, and I need to cancel my order, because it doesn't work on AT&T's LTE.

Thanks
Thanks for this thread. As much as I can't look away from the train wreck that is Saygus, I really do need to replace my outdated phone and leave the Apple compound and koolaid behind.
You'd think it would be easy to buy a decent phone with a swappable battery and expandable storage.

Zinguy said:
Thanks for this thread. As much as I can't look away from the train wreck that is Saygus, I really do need to replace my outdated phone and leave the Apple compound and koolaid behind.
You'd think it would be easy to buy a decent phone with a swappable battery and expandable storage.
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Yeah that's the crazy part, I still want the V2 because of the features. I'm shocked that more people aren't worried about support after the sale from Saygus though.

Zinguy said:
Thanks for this thread. As much as I can't look away from the train wreck that is Saygus, I really do need to replace my outdated phone and leave the Apple compound and koolaid behind.
You'd think it would be easy to buy a decent phone with a swappable battery and expandable storage.
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The problem is most mainstream manufacturers seem to be heading towards sealed unit phones, and the majority have given up on SD support on flagships. Sony is a noticeable exception but their in life care leaves a lot to be desired - the official Sony phone forums are full of threads on issues that Sony refuses to officially acknowledge.
A lot of the 'cheaper' phones from Chinese manufacturers interest me, but there is always a compromise there. Honor's cheaper phones have non-backlit capacitive buttons. Meizu and Xiaomi seem to shun SD. Elephone seems a little left field. Most Chinese flagships are 5.5 inch.
What we all seem to agree on is that the V2 offered the fewest compromises, and everything else has at least one glaring black mark that we realistically are not able to swallow. Which makes the apparent train wreck of the V2 that much harder to take and ultimately is responsible for the sometime over emotional outbursts by the various pro/anti Saygus camps.

lukec36 said:
The ZTE Nubia Z9 Mini looks like a very good option for those of you that are running current devices that are a couple of years old, but I don't think it offers enough of an upgrade from my Z3 Compact for me to consider. But, given the expected price and general specs I think this would be a great choice for most people. There is a little bit of me that is tempted to go for this device just to scratch my 'must buy a new phone' itch!
The Nubia Z9 (not Mini or Max, confusing nomenclature!) also looks like a well specced device, but there seems to be uncertainty about whether this has an SD card slot, plus it runs the Snapdragon 810 which seems to be a rather tainted SoC from what I read everywhere.
The Sharp Aquos Xx also looks interesting, 84% screen ratio but again Snapdragon 810 and I've no idea whether Sharp make decent phones or not...
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Actually the ZTE Nubia Z9 does look pretty amazing. Only issue for me is no wireless charging and the price seems high. The Sharp Aquos Xx doesnt have a speaker. Not sure how I would like that.

This is an interesting alternative I saw on BGR but I doubt it will be available with support for US networks. It's made by a Chinese company called Innos and it has a 5.2-inch 1080p display, a Snapdragon 615 1.8GHz octa-core processor, a 16-megapixel rear-facing camera, a 5-megapixel front-facing camera, 3 GB of RAM, 32GB of storage and Android 5.0 Lollipop. The most interesting thing about it is that has dual batteries with a total capacity of 6000mAh, an internal one that's 2480mAh and an external replaceable one that's 3520mAh. I don't think it has a microSD memory card slot but if someone can read Chinese then the second link will have all the specs. I tried Google translate on the page but it didn't translate much.
http://bgr.com/2015/05/22/best-smartphone-battery-innos-d6000/
http://www.innos.com/yiluo/product.php?lang=cn&class2=168

Sam K said:
This is an interesting alternative I saw on BGR but I doubt it will be available with support for US networks. It's made by a Chinese company called Innos and it has a 5.2-inch 1080p display, a Snapdragon 615 1.8GHz octa-core processor, a 16-megapixel rear-facing camera, a 5-megapixel front-facing camera, 3 GB of RAM, 32GB of storage and Android 5.0 Lollipop. The most interesting thing about it is that has dual batteries with a total capacity of 6000mAh, an internal one that's 2480mAh and an external replaceable one that's 3520mAh. I don't think it has a microSD memory card slot but if someone can read Chinese then the second link will have all the specs. I tried Google translate on the page but it didn't translate much.
http://bgr.com/2015/05/22/best-smartphone-battery-innos-d6000/
http://www.innos.com/yiluo/product.php?lang=cn&class2=168
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Wow that looks really cool!

If someone knows of another phone with a reasonable screen size, removable battery, waterproofing, front facing speakers, expandable storage, a durable body material (i.e. not aluminum, something that doesn't need a case) and a fingerprint reader, I'd like to know about it.
Or at least most of those things.

MikeyMike01 said:
If someone knows of another phone with a reasonable screen size, removable battery, waterproofing, front facing speakers, expandable storage, a durable body material (i.e. not aluminum, something that doesn't need a case) and a fingerprint reader, I'd like to know about it.
Or at least most of those things.
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The Galaxy S5 meets most of your criteria. The only thing it lacks out of those is the front-facing speakers. I know, some people would argue it also doesn't have a "durable body," since it's made out of plastic, but I 100% disagree. My S4 was tough as hell, despite being plastic (and I actually think partly because of it, since plastic flexes and also weighs less, so less impact force when falling). I've thrown it so many times, to the point the case came off and the battery flew out once, and it never so much as got a scratch that I saw. And the only reason I put a case on it was because it was too thin and felt weird in the hand, and the case I used was a very slim one, so it didn't add much to the phone, just a tiny bit of extra thickness and a better grip. As much as I dislike Samsung right now, the S5 would be my next phone if it were available unlocked with 32GB internal memory.

Question Worth pre-ordering S21 Ultra now to get Galaxy Buds Pro (Exynos version)?

Where I live they are offering a free Galaxy Buds Pro for anyone who pre-orders the S21 Ultra during this week. I am still waiting for comprehensive reviews and comparisons between the SD 888 and Exynos 2100.
Is the Galaxy Buds Pro worth it and risking with pre-ordering right now?

Depending on where you're based, you have a return window. The pre-order deal & trade in value was really good so I've traded in my S10+.
In the UK it's 28 days, and you can let them know on the 28th day that you intend to return, doesn't have to be in their hand by that point. Just don't send your trade-in until you're sure you don't want to return the ultra. obviously you have to return the buds as well.
Whilst reviews are a good indication, its always best to use the phone and see how you feel, from what I've seen so far, there is still a gap but it's much smaller than last year. There aren't many great phones available that aren't Chinese branded ( OnePlus ) which I'm trying to avoid for ethical reasons, so my choices are limited, fingers crossed the exynos delivers!

Here it is difficult to return, I might be able to do so but not easy.
I currently have a OnePlus 6, so even if the Exynos is slower than the SD 888, it is still better than the current SD845, but I want to be sure the Exynos is good, last year it was a terrible choice with overheating and worst battery.

Seems delivery times are starting to lengthen, Sunday now in the UK so hurry up!

Batfink33 said:
Seems delivery times are starting to lengthen, Sunday now in the UK so hurry up!
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I am not in a hurry to get the smartphone itself, I can wait, but if the Galaxy Buds Pro are worth it and I can get them for free if I preorder now then I will preorder.

Where are you based? Double check the Samsung website and see what they say, but obviously only go ahead if you're comfortable. You can get comparable if not better earbuds for less than the RRP of the pros so don't risk it if you aren't comfortable! You'd be able to buy say the one plus 9 pro and headphones of your choice for less than the ultra price

Fyi I've seen a pc mark battery test that claimed around 12 hours for the sd888 and 10.25 for the Exynos, but no idea how legit it was (was in Chinese).

mtm1401 said:
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So in all fairness, I did go back and look at the speed test video he did between the two and noticed a few things
Looks like different people kicking off the tests (based on the table they are on and skin colour).
SD is in aeroplane mode and Exynos is connected to cellular but no wifi/mobile data.
Resolutions are very slightly different, but both look like they are in FHD, but the SD has a slightly lower resolution as the navigation bar is different and makes the screen slightly smaller. QHD makes a minimal difference to battery life unless you're doing something GPU intensive.
In all fairness, I've seen mixed reviews of both chips, but no idea how people are setting up their phones (always do a clean install!!!). Have to wait and see how it performs when the phone arrives.

General Couldn't Hold Out

I've hoisted a number of issues regarding Samsung recently but I've finally come to realize the S21 Ultra is overall the best device at this time, for me anyway. I dropped close to the $1,400.00 USD for the 512GB variant from Hong Kong. Cost is a factor but not my biggest issue, money is only a problem when you don't have any...
I hate the fact Samsung eliminated Micro SD's since for my usage 256GB won't cut it. I likely would have opted for a US Branded device even suffering with the bloatware but the largest storage any of the Service Providers offer is 256GB. I have well over that amount on my current device and I won't consider Cloud Storage. I'm pretty sure a number of Cloud Storage Providers have already been hacked and it's just a matter of time before news of a large data breach has occurred. FYI, for those who are looking for the Ultra 512GB the supply is drying up with only a handful of vendors stocking the device, all overseas.
The other issue is the box of a camera module. It's an improvement over the S20 Ultra but it's still there. It would seem most flagship devices are struggling with the concept due to the competitive nature of adding more cameras as feature enhancements but I'm pretty sure I'll never use all of them. I have a photographer background so my first option when I want some great snaps is a dedicated camera, not my phone.
I gave some thought to acquiring the Note 20 Ultra since this model hasn't ditched the SD Card and it's HK Variant is around $400.00 less but theres a significant drop off in performance between the Notes 865 7nm and the Ultras 888 5nm SoC, plus I'd be forced to haul around the S-Pen which I would never use. I also strongly considered the Z Fold 3 but based of functionality I can't reconcile the value, just not enough features for the price. I also considered Samsung's A72. It's got a lot going for it at a third of the price but it looks like a $500.00 smartphone. Oh well!
The other options were holding out for the iPhone 14 or the Pixel 6. Even though they each have their own individual upsides from the leaks I've seen neither have compelled me to generate real interest. I've been with Galaxy devices for a number of years so I guess I'm just not ready to throw in the towel quite yet.
That pretty much sums it up, I think I've vented enough. I understand there's no such thing as a perfect smartphone so I'm hoping all of the other wonderful features this device offers helps me overlook the aforementioned issues. At least I know my wife will be happy, she'll be the proud owner of an awesome S10 Plus!

Well, there's no one perfect phone for everyone, I guess. It's just about what compromises you're willing to live with.
Welcome to the fold brother!

General To trade or not to trade, that is the question.

I'm seriously thinking about getting the Fold 3. Maybe I'm just caught up in the hype but I can't stop thinking about trading the Ultra in for a Fold 3. What do you all think, why or why not?

When the s21U vs Fold 3 comparisons come out, then take a few weeks and make up your decision.

Will trade it in for the Pixel 6 Pro.

Man i love the s21, but the software is sooooo bad. Can't get over oneui. The amount of bloat is just insane. Pixel 6 pro will be my next phone most likely.

seen reviews the fold 3 is a pile of crap specs not as good as s21 ultra

Nah...I was all about the fold 2 when I was moving from the mate 20x as I wanted the biggest phone I could find.
I was very disappointed with it though. First is really not that big and the fold part is horrible looking. Plus it does not help much for media in the end and that front screen is like a KitKat.
Worse is the camera cannot match the s21 ultra either and looks like the fold 3 is more of the same in terms of camera and even smaller?
I need a bigger phone with at least same cameras as the s21 ultra to be happy. Better yet a 16:10 format instead of the current KitKat trend but that ain't happening

Screen protectors are not available for internal screen, at the moment - so if you drop Fold3 unfolded, it will cost you like 1000 EUR Not worth. Spec is s h i t t y. Cameras are bad. Maybe Fold4 or 5 will be better. If so - I will consider it.

Bro why you making a POLL? Just trade it and come back in a few weeks to tell us how you feel about it.
Happy or not.

Smartphone and iPhone innovation has reached a plateau, the manufacturer's are leaning on camera additions and 5G to boost market share. Devices now have 5 or 6 cameras, more camera functions aren't a major driver when it comes to buying decisions, enough is enough! At this point 5G has few practical applications besides faster download speeds. Hardware is pretty much the same as it was 3 to 4 years ago. The focus should be on superior software and UI where the bulk of users express their dissatisfaction.

varcor said:
Smartphone and iPhone innovation has reached a plateau, the manufacturer's are leaning on camera additions and 5G to boost market share. Devices now have 5 or 6 cameras, more camera functions aren't a major driver when it comes to buying decisions, enough is enough! At this point 5G has few practical applications besides faster download speeds. Hardware is pretty much the same as it was 3 to 4 years ago. The focus should be on superior software and UI where the bulk of users express their dissatisfaction.
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Meh, don't get me started, for starters...
I think Android dropped the ball with their Apple like fixation on security when there wasn't major issues. Result both 11 and 12 are a pain the use.
Samsung is bent on cutting edge hardware but forgot the basics, like an SD card slot.
They fouled on every flagship model this year.
Problems with variable frequency displays and 5G, the cam hump, back to lame rounded display corners then were saddle bagged with Android 11, killing the ugly horse.
The Fold is a stuck together mess that seems more like a prototype than a polished flagship phone. Two batteries and a less than functional huge display prone to delamination.
I didn't want any of those headaches, just a phone that's fun, fast, stable, reliable, can capture good images and fulfills its mission. My N10+ Snapdragon is 2 years old, runs great and is drop dead gorgeous. Current OS load is 1.5 yo, still fast and stable with minimal maintenance. Good battery life.
Looks/runs like new, only repair was a replacement battery.
So... why fight it? I bought a second one new N10+ for $800. A premium price for a factory sealed perfect 10+. Good to go.
That's what I think about the new phones and so far 2022 is looking just as bad. The 10+ is more fun today then it was 2 years ago. I'm still exploring it's features and rarely burdened with troubleshooting. The longevity of the OS load is testimony to that. Security; running on Pie it has never had a malware forced reload. The newer one is running on Q, so far it's running good. However Q is as high as it will be upgraded.
Eventually I may upgrade from P to Q on the original 10+... maybe.

blackhawk said:
Meh, don't get me started, for starters...
I think Android dropped the ball with their Apple like fixation on security when there wasn't major issues. Result both 11 and 12 are a pain the use.
Samsung is bent on cutting edge hardware but forgot the basics, like an SD card slot.
They fouled on every flagship model this year.
Problems with variable frequency displays and 5G, the cam hump, back to lame rounded display corners then were saddle bagged with Android 11, killing the ugly horse.
The Fold is a stuck together mess that seems more like a prototype than a polished flagship phone. Two batteries and a less than functional huge display prone to delamination.
I didn't want any of those headaches, just a phone that's fun, fast, stable, reliable, can capture good images and fulfills its mission. My N10+ Snapdragon is 2 years old, runs great and is drop dead gorgeous. Current OS load is 1.5 yo, still fast and stable with minimal maintenance. Good battery life.
Looks/runs like new, only repair was a replacement battery.
So... why fight it? I bought a second one new N10+ for $800. A premium price for a factory sealed perfect 10+. Good to go.
That's what I think about the new phones and so far 2022 is looking just as bad. The 10+ is more fun today then it was 2 years ago. I'm still exploring it's features and rarely burdened with troubleshooting. The longevity of the OS load is testimony to that. Security; running on Pie it has never had a malware forced reload. The newer one is running on Q, so far it's running good. However Q is as high as it will be upgraded.
Eventually I may upgrade from P to Q on the original 10+... maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm not going to defend Android 11 or 12 but the UI on Samsung has made substantial improvements since TouchWiz. Google was correct in efforts to make a more secure platform, it lagged far behind Apple. It has improved however it's still not as secure as iOS. The real advantages in Android 11 and 12 are more apparent on a Pixel Device, it's designed for that device, not a Galaxy, just as iOS is for iPhone's. I still use my S10+ often since I like it's smaller profile, MicroSD and 3.5 Jack. Call me outdated but I'm accustomed to these features and appreciate them. It's not on the same tier as my S21 Ultra but still a solid performer. Most new cellphones still use rounded corners which you don't like but it's much more convenient to slide in or out of my pocket. For me form follows function. Samsung is expecting a huge sales increase in the Fold 3. That may be the case and Samsung better pray it happens since the Galaxy S Series has been in a serious sales decline since the S20. Plus the Fold is no longer innovative, it's been around a few years and competitors are offering similar platforms. To me it's a novelty which is way overpriced when features are compared to other flagship devices. To spend close to 2K on anything that gives you maybe 4 hours SOT isn't something I'd place in a value added category.

varcor said:
Well, I'm not going to defend Android 11 or 12 but the UI on Samsung has made substantial improvements since TouchWiz. Google was correct in efforts to make a more secure platform, it lagged far behind Apple. It has improved however it's still not as secure as iOS. The real advantages in Android 11 and 12 are more apparent on a Pixel Device, it's designed for that device, not a Galaxy, just as iOS is for iPhone's. I still use my S10+ often since I like it's smaller profile, MicroSD and 3.5 Jack. Call me outdated but I'm accustomed to these features and appreciate them. It's not on the same tier as my S21 Ultra but still a solid performer. Most new cellphones still use rounded corners which you don't like but it's much more convenient to slide in or out of my pocket. For me form follows function. Samsung is expecting a huge sales increase in the Fold 3. That may be the case and Samsung better pray it happens since the Galaxy S Series has been in a serious sales decline since the S20. Plus the Fold is no longer innovative, it's been around a few years and competitors are offering similar platforms. To me it's a novelty which is way overpriced when features are compared to other flagship devices. To spend close to 2K on anything that gives you maybe 4 hours SOT isn't something I'd place in a value added category.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, I was using a S4+ running on Kitkat before I got the N10+. Huge difference in the IU. A bit of future shock but it was fun. The customizable is stunning; it looks and functions like I want it too.
TouchWiz was quit crude in comparison. I don't like slow PCs and the 10+ is snappy. I just don't ever run out of ram The other thing I really just go to pieces over is having a 1.5 dual drive PC in my hand. I require that SD card slot.
I'm running a .5tb now but thinking of going to 1tb.
The 10+ now seems small to me, the Bolt case isn't that bulky but provides excellent protection.
I like the 10+ 7mm profile with no cam hump.
This keeps it's bulk down.
I wear BDU pant so I just put it in the cargo pocket, it never falls out and easy to grab.
Or I'll stash it in the inner vest pocket.
Having watched CRTs for decades, screw rounded display corners! Who frames pictures and paintings with round corners? Very few.
Does Cinemascope have round corners?
Security is mostly hype. The user is almost always responsible for installing or downloading viruses, etc. No saving dumb bunnies...
Trying to make it safe for everyone ruins it for all.
The dumb bunnies still get wacked.
I'm running Pie with no issues, a rootkit could wiggle in but a full reload cost would me a few hours at worst.
Much better than constantly having scoped storage suck cpu cycles/battery and the headaches of nonfunctional/dysfunctional trusted apps because of it.
Scare tactics don't work well on a pragmatist...
Variable rate displays in addition to screwing with color rendering (which is very noticeable to me) also uses more battery. The 10+ handles color profiles so well I don't even think about it.
5G and scoped storage also use more power. My download speeds are good enough to stream vids. Scooped storage has nothing I want, zip.
Battery life is important to me.
SOT time using browser 7-8%@hr
Watching vids in the browser 9-12%@hr.
At night with cell and internet active, tap on AOD less than .5%@hr.
I can use the 10+ for at least 2-3 more years and be happy rather than run the tech gauntlet. This isn't what Google, Samsung or the carriers want, tough. Got tired of the bs and products that don't deliver what I want... so I cancelled them

I am still not convinced by foldables. My big butt and my butter fingers will find a way to break foldables screens easily. Plus invested a bit in the S21 Ultra - Spigen cases and Screen protectors + 2 years of Samsung care.
I think I am going to keep my S21 Ultra for a while (i've upgraded to the latest S phone ever since the S8). I've turned off 5g and enabled FHD+. And stopped charging at 85%+.
Not related to the Fold3; felt like ranting -
The Pixel 6 and 6 pro did catch my attention however they have slow finger print readers (not the next gen ultrasonic ones that we have on the S21 Ultra. Most reviews are focusing features like Magic eraser and faster translation which are gimmicky and I feel I wont miss them in my everyday life.

imankareem said:
I am still not convinced by foldables. My big butt and my butter fingers will find a way to break foldables screens easily. Plus invested a bit in the S21 Ultra - Spigen cases and Screen protectors + 2 years of Samsung care.
I think I am going to keep my S21 Ultra for a while (i've upgraded to the latest S phone ever since the S8). I've turned off 5g and enabled FHD+. And stopped charging at 85%+.
Not related to the Fold3; felt like ranting -
The Pixel 6 and 6 pro did catch my attention however they have slow finger print readers (not the next gen ultrasonic ones that we have on the S21 Ultra. Most reviews are focusing features like Magic eraser and faster translation which are gimmicky and I feel I wont miss them in my everyday life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with everything you've shared. I've upgraded every time since the S6 until the S10. Skipped the S20 and glad I did, the S21 is more refined. Won't be upgrading to the S22 based on what's broadly reported. Pretty sure the difference between a 4 nm and a 5 nm Chipset is negligible and the Exynos 2200 is plagued with production issues. So what's the point, a 108 MP Camera Upgrade, maybe 45W Charging, New Color? Sorry Samsung, these minor additions aren't worth the trouble or $$$. If you've been using a S10 or earlier model MAYBE, otherwise think twice.

blackhawk said:
Lol, I was using a S4+ running on Kitkat before I got the N10+. Huge difference in the IU. A bit of future shock but it was fun. The customizable is stunning; it looks and functions like I want it too.
TouchWiz was quit crude in comparison. I don't like slow PCs and the 10+ is snappy. I just don't ever run out of ram The other thing I really just go to pieces over is having a 1.5 dual drive PC in my hand. I require that SD card slot.
I'm running a .5tb now but thinking of going to 1tb.
The 10+ now seems small to me, the Bolt case isn't that bulky but provides excellent protection.
I like the 10+ 7mm profile with no cam hump.
This keeps it's bulk down.
I wear BDU pant so I just put it in the cargo pocket, it never falls out and easy to grab.
Or I'll stash it in the inner vest pocket.
Having watched CRTs for decades, screw rounded display corners! Who frames pictures and paintings with round corners? Very few.
Does Cinemascope have round corners?
Security is mostly hype. The user is almost always responsible for installing or downloading viruses, etc. No saving dumb bunnies...
Trying to make it safe for everyone ruins it for all.
The dumb bunnies still get wacked.
I'm running Pie with no issues, a rootkit could wiggle in but a full reload cost would me a few hours at worst.
Much better than constantly having scoped storage suck cpu cycles/battery and the headaches of nonfunctional/dysfunctional trusted apps because of it.
Scare tactics don't work well on a pragmatist...
Variable rate displays in addition to screwing with color rendering (which is very noticeable to me) also uses more battery. The 10+ handles color profiles so well I don't even think about it.
5G and scoped storage also use more power. My download speeds are good enough to stream vids. Scooped storage has nothing I want, zip.
Battery life is important to me.
SOT time using browser 7-8%@hr
Watching vids in the browser 9-12%@hr.
At night with cell and internet active, tap on AOD less than .5%@hr.
I can use the 10+ for at least 2-3 more years and be happy rather than run the tech gauntlet. This isn't what Google, Samsung or the carriers want, tough. Got tired of the bs and products that don't deliver what I want... so I cancelled them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After I become a pilot and have cargo pockets to spare I'll consider a box phone, don't hold your breath...

imankareem said:
I am still not convinced by foldables. My big butt and my butter fingers will find a way to break foldables screens easily. Plus invested a bit in the S21 Ultra - Spigen cases and Screen protectors + 2 years of Samsung care.
I think I am going to keep my S21 Ultra for a while (i've upgraded to the latest S phone ever since the S8). I've turned off 5g and enabled FHD+. And stopped charging at 85%+.
Not related to the Fold3; felt like ranting -
The Pixel 6 and 6 pro did catch my attention however they have slow finger print readers (not the next gen ultrasonic ones that we have on the S21 Ultra. Most reviews are focusing features like Magic eraser and faster translation which are gimmicky and I feel I wont miss them in my everyday life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's the magic eraser in google photos that's attracting you, don't sweat it. In about 6 months the update will be rolled out to all devices given Google's track record. But as someone said here, Android is best used as stock and google does a good job at it. All others add a huge load of bells and whistles on the OS making their versions just clunky and bug ridden...Oxygen OS included...

varcor said:
After I become a pilot and have cargo pockets to spare I'll consider a box phone, don't hold your breath...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, stop wearing Levi's long time ago.
Always carry a Gerber Strongarm too

I like the fold and it is my second choice but I pick my phone for its photography and camera abilities and fold 3 is lacking in the area.

Honestly unless you are returning to apple, what's the point. It's pretty much a given the s21 ultra is an all round beast of a phone. Is it perfect no but it's getting to that point now the phones are so similar beyond some minor hardware changes

Peanuttree said:
I'm seriously thinking about getting the Fold 3. Maybe I'm just caught up in the hype but I can't stop thinking about trading the Ultra in for a Fold 3. What do you all think, why or why not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Question Galaxy S23

I'm sure I am not the only one who feels like the S22 Ultra is a Galaxy Note...and replaces the S for this year. I'm worried that this may be a permanent thing, and I really hate the design of the S22 Ultra.
Are we going to see a return to the more curved design of the S21 Ultra in the S23 or am I doomed to abandon Samsung in the future and take a bite out of a manky apple?
Any thoughts?

Last great Note was the 10+. The 20U had some improvements but Samsung didn't do as good a job. Samsung has been wasting too much of its resources on the Fold series.
Worse Android 11 and 12 just suck. Then Samsung decides to pull SD card support and the native spen on its flagships. Almost an iPhone at this point. Less features, better price tag.
Perfect. Except I hate iPhones...
Solution, got a 2nd new N10+ running on Q. It will be at least 2023 until Samsung and Android get their crap together is my guess.
Got a device I wuv in my pocket and don't have to deal with their bs; I'm good for 2+ years.
Not my problem anymore

blackhawk said:
Last great Note was the 10+. The 20U had some improvements but Samsung didn't do as good a job. Samsung has been wasting too much of its resources on the Fold series.
Worse Android 11 and 12 just suck. Then Samsung decides to pull SD card support and the native spen on its flagships. Almost an iPhone at this point. Less features, better price tag.
Perfect. Except I hate iPhones...
Solution, got a 2nd new N10+ running on Q. It will be at least 2023 until Samsung and Android get their crap together is my guess.
Got a device I wuv in my pocket and don't have to deal with their bs; I'm good for 2+ years.
Not my problem anymore
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean? Samsung has never pulled native s-pen support on its flagships. All note series obviously has it. They added S-Pen support to the S21U and now the S22U will functionally be a Note with the built in S-Pen slot. Android is moving away from SD cards as a whole, Google is making it harder and harder to support it with increase security measures that affect performance.
I disagree with less features. There hasn't been a release where they have only removed features without also adding something new. Shifting focus on features isn't the same as just removing them.
And to the point of the OP, it depends on how sales figures are. It's weird to completely switch ecosystems and phones just because of a square vs rounded corners but I guess everyone has different priorities. The design is fine to me but I am disappointed that there doesn't seem to be any hardware upgrades to the camera system.

For me it's very much like buying a car. I wouldn't buy a car I didn't like the shape of. The great thing in past years is I could choose between a note or an 's' device. Now with the merge Samsung essentially takes the choice away from me, and I really don't find square edges aesthetically pleasing.

beserker15 said:
What do you mean? Samsung has never pulled native s-pen support on its flagships. All note series obviously has it. They added S-Pen support to the S21U and now the S22U will functionally be a Note with the built in S-Pen slot. Android is moving away from SD cards as a whole, Google is making it harder and harder to support it with increase security measures that affect performance.
I disagree with less features. There hasn't been a release where they have only removed features without also adding something new. Shifting focus on features isn't the same as just removing them.
And to the point of the OP, it depends on how sales figures are. It's weird to completely switch ecosystems and phones just because of a square vs rounded corners but I guess everyone has different priorities. The design is fine to me but I am disappointed that there doesn't seem to be any hardware upgrades to the camera system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Fold series never had native a Spen or expandable storage.
Samsung biggest R&D and capital outlay to date has been their Fold series.
It's been their worst flagship seller too, they are still aren't generating a net profit from it, not even close.
Sd Cards are more secure than internal storage. If you used data drives you would know that. Cloud storage wastes money, power and bandwidth especially when you have over a 1tb of data. Memory needs are increasing not decreasing with 8K vids, higher resolution images and higher resolution media
I can do a full reload from my SD card, no internet connection or Playstore needed. No need to reload all my data if forced to reload. Not using a data drive on a PC or smartphone is just plain inept.
It's a lick on you.

blackhawk said:
The Fold series never had native a Spen or expandable storage.
Samsung biggest R&D and capital outlay to date has been their Fold series.
It's been their worst flagship seller too, they are still aren't generating a net profit from it, not even close.
Sd Cards are more secure than internal storage. If you used data drives you would know that. Cloud storage wastes money, power and bandwidth especially when you have over a 1tb of data. Memory needs are increasing not decreasing with 8K vids, higher resolution images and higher resolution media
I can do a full reload from my SD card, no internet connection or Playstore needed. No need to reload all my data if forced to reload. Not using a data drive on a PC or smartphone is just plain inept.
It's a lick on you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Fold series is more or less still an experiment. The Z Flip 3 was actually a better than expected seller for them but the Fold will never be mainstream until it becomes cheaper and more durable. It's the reason why they canceled the Note 21 and kept the Fold series...because they would not have been able to keep up with demand. Hell, they're still struggling with supply shortages in the S21 series.
I disagree with your view on SD Card security. By default, modern internal storage is encrypted. Most people who put in a passcode and biometrics make it very hard to get access to. The majority of people I know who even still have an SD Card in their phones do not encrypt them (and at that point, you can then just pop out the card and have access to everything without needing to unlock the phone). Even if you do encrypt them, performance would be affected. Google's scope storage and future changes to Android makes it more and more difficult for apps to access SD Cards.
Besides, we can debate cloud vs local storage for days, everyone has differing opinions and usage patterns. What isn't going to change is the fact that those features are being used less and less over time (even if your point about higher data usage and bandwidth is true). I believe that it is important to you. I also totally understand that it and the removal of the headphone jack are deal breakers for some people. However, just to say that all Samsung is doing is removing features is not true at all. To me, the S21u's addition of variable refresh rate to have 120hz when needed but dropping down to save battery when isn't is very important. The addition of the second telephoto camera is the single feature that I value most so far and it would be my own personal deal breaker if their future phones do not have the same reach.

beserker15 said:
The Fold series is more or less still an experiment. The Z Flip 3 was actually a better than expected seller for them but the Fold will never be mainstream until it becomes cheaper and more durable. It's the reason why they canceled the Note 21 and kept the Fold series...because they would not have been able to keep up with demand. Hell, they're still struggling with supply shortages in the S21 series.
I disagree with your view on SD Card security. By default, modern internal storage is encrypted. Most people who put in a passcode and biometrics make it very hard to get access to. The majority of people I know who even still have an SD Card in their phones do not encrypt them (and at that point, you can then just pop out the card and have access to everything without needing to unlock the phone). Even if you do encrypt them, performance would be affected. Google's scope storage and future changes to Android makes it more and more difficult for apps to access SD Cards.
Besides, we can debate cloud vs local storage for days, everyone has differing opinions and usage patterns. What isn't going to change is the fact that those features are being used less and less over time (even if your point about higher data usage and bandwidth is true). I believe that it is important to you. I also totally understand that it and the removal of the headphone jack are deal breakers for some people. However, just to say that all Samsung is doing is removing features is not true at all. To me, the S21u's addition of variable refresh rate to have 120hz when needed but dropping down to save battery when isn't is very important. The addition of the second telephoto camera is the single feature that I value most so far and it would be my own personal deal breaker if their future phones do not have the same reach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately the Fold3 is an experiment too. Delamination issues have predictably already shown up again. The materials aren't up to the task.
I never encrypt data drives or anything else because you are the most likely one to be locked out. Or lose all your data. In over 17 years I never had any malware breach the data drives. It's not impossible by a long shot but in actual usage it rarely happens. Of course some of that depends on how well you mind the store.
Security is handled best by having redundant time staggered backups that are physically and electronically isolated from each other and the PC.
Accounts/passwords can reset, bank accounts are insured.

beserker15 said:
The Fold series is more or less still an experiment. The Z Flip 3 was actually a better than expected seller for them but the Fold will never be mainstream until it becomes cheaper and more durable. It's the reason why they canceled the Note 21 and kept the Fold series...because they would not have been able to keep up with demand. Hell, they're still struggling with supply shortages in the S21 series.
I disagree with your view on SD Card security. By default, modern internal storage is encrypted. Most people who put in a passcode and biometrics make it very hard to get access to. The majority of people I know who even still have an SD Card in their phones do not encrypt them (and at that point, you can then just pop out the card and have access to everything without needing to unlock the phone). Even if you do encrypt them, performance would be affected. Google's scope storage and future changes to Android makes it more and more difficult for apps to access SD Cards.
Besides, we can debate cloud vs local storage for days, everyone has differing opinions and usage patterns. What isn't going to change is the fact that those features are being used less and less over time (even if your point about higher data usage and bandwidth is true). I believe that it is important to you. I also totally understand that it and the removal of the headphone jack are deal breakers for some people. However, just to say that all Samsung is doing is removing features is not true at all. To me, the S21u's addition of variable refresh rate to have 120hz when needed but dropping down to save battery when isn't is very important. The addition of the second telephoto camera is the single feature that I value most so far and it would be my own personal deal breaker if their future phones do not have the same reach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The logic you employ regarding features is flawed. When a feature is removed you lose that feature regardless of how many different features are added. If you liked the feature you're not pleased.
Internal Storage isn't encrypted by default, access to files is protected by passcodes or biometrics only IF the user sets these up, not encryption.
Removing MicroSD is Samsung's stragity to increase profit. The 512GB variant is USD $400.00 more than 128GB and 256GB variants, whereas the added expense to Samsung for manufacturing the 512GB device is likely less than $5.00. Transferring data, videos, music, photos and documentations from my S10 to the S21 literally took HOURS! One would think If External Storage is outdated why does Samsung continue including the feature on almost all of their lower price point devices? Less Internal Storage also compels users to pay for Cloud Storage (more profit). Cloud Storage offers less privacy and security since all major providers have already been hacked.
Note 20 worldwide sales came in at 3.2 million units while the S20 sold 17 million. The S21 is even worse at 13 million but the S10 and S10 Plus with MicroSD and 3.5 Jack weighed in at 25 million units. That's a 47% decline from the S10 to the S21. You and others may believe External Memory isn't important but that's not what sales metrics are exposing. With the S22 Ultra now essentially a Note no one should be surprised Samsung's flagship sales decline will accelerate.

varcor said:
The logic you employ regarding features is flawed. When a feature is removed you lose that feature regardless of how many different features are added. If you liked the feature you're not pleased.
Internal Storage isn't encrypted by default, access to files is protected by passcodes or biometrics only IF the user sets these up, not encryption.
Removing MicroSD is Samsung's stragity to increase profit. The 512GB variant is USD $400.00 more than 128GB and 256GB variants, whereas the added expense to Samsung for manufacturing the 512GB device is likely less than $5.00. Transferring data, videos, music, photos and documentations from my S10 to the S21 literally took HOURS! Less Internal Storage also compels users to pay for Cloud Storage (more profit). Cloud Storage offers less privacy and security since all major providers have already been hacked.
Note 20 worldwide sales came in at 3.2 million units while the S20 sold 17 million. The S21 is even worse at 13 million but the S10 and S10 Plus with MicroSD and 3.5 Jack weighed in at 25 million units. That's a 47% decline from the S10 to the S21. You and others may believe External Memory isn't important but that's not what sales metrics are exposing. With the S22 Ultra now essentially a Note no one should be surprised Samsung's flagship sales decline will accelerate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said that those features aren't removed. All I'm saying is the statement "Almost an iPhone at this point. Less features, better price tag" or the common statement that says all they're doing is removing features is simply false. The pitchforks didn't come out when they removed the FM radio or the IR blaster. People obviously care about the SD Card more than those two but it doesn't change the fact that the number is shrinking. If all they did was remove things without adding anything else, then I can agree. However, they're merely putting more resources elsewhere and focusing on other features.
Again, we can debate on the merits of cloud versus local for days, but you must also realize for your sales argument to be true, OEMs that still have those "desired" features should have seen a boost and they have not. Samsung is not the only OEM to remove the SD Card from the flagship. Google did it, Huawei did it, OnePlus did it, etc. The Pixel 6 is probably Google's best selling phone in years and it has neither an SD slot or a headphone jack. LG and Sony are the only ones who still kept both features, and LG has dropped out of mobile phones and Sony is still barely scraping by. What is true though that the S20 got significantly more expensive and both the S20 and S21 were released during the pandemic.
Also your profit margins statement is also incorrect. The S21U with 128GB is $1200 MSRP, with the 512GB model that also has 16gb of RAM at $1380, a difference of $180, not $400. And no, it doesn't cost them less than $5 to quadruple the storage. Hell, they struggled with the chip shortage and have basically discontinued the 512gb model because they couldn't keep up with the demand. Samsung has also exited the cloud storage business so it doesn't directly benefit them if people move to the cloud.
And yes, internal storage is encrypted by default. While on a phone, you can't really just rip out internal storage and move it to another device or read it on a computer, the idea is the same. Encryption is enabled by default and decrypted once the phone is unlocked. If you never setup a passcode on your phone, that just means that whoever has the phone can just unlock your device and have access to your data. If your device is powered off however, or in some state where you can't turn on the phone, another person can't just dismantle the phone, grab the flash memory chip, and put it in another device to read it.

With Android 11 and up encryption automatic as I understand it.
Lol, I just raked Samsung customer service over about expandable storage and consequences.
Just because "everybody" is doing something doesn't make it a good idea. Thinking like that can lead to a thrombosis epidemic in today's world.
You're only as good as your last phone... the manufacturer doesn't dictate the market, they cater to it.
Samsung deserves the profit crater their Fold excursion caused. Wanna go for sloppy seconds, again, Sammy?

beserker15 said:
I never said that those features aren't removed. All I'm saying is the statement "Almost an iPhone at this point. Less features, better price tag" or the common statement that says all they're doing is removing features is simply false. The pitchforks didn't come out when they removed the FM radio or the IR blaster. People obviously care about the SD Card more than those two but it doesn't change the fact that the number is shrinking. If all they did was remove things without adding anything else, then I can agree. However, they're merely putting more resources elsewhere and focusing on other features.
Again, we can debate on the merits of cloud versus local for days, but you must also realize for your sales argument to be true, OEMs that still have those "desired" features should have seen a boost and they have not. Samsung is not the only OEM to remove the SD Card from the flagship. Google did it, Huawei did it, OnePlus did it, etc. The Pixel 6 is probably Google's best selling phone in years and it has neither an SD slot or a headphone jack. LG and Sony are the only ones who still kept both features, and LG has dropped out of mobile phones and Sony is still barely scraping by. What is true though that the S20 got significantly more expensive and both the S20 and S21 were released during the pandemic.
Also your profit margins statement is also incorrect. The S21U with 128GB is $1200 MSRP, with the 512GB model that also has 16gb of RAM at $1380, a difference of $180, not $400. And no, it doesn't cost them less than $5 to quadruple the storage. Hell, they struggled with the chip shortage and have basically discontinued the 512gb model because they couldn't keep up with the demand. Samsung has also exited the cloud storage business so it doesn't directly benefit them if people move to the cloud.
And yes, internal storage is encrypted by default. While on a phone, you can't really just rip out internal storage and move it to another device or read it on a computer, the idea is the same. Encryption is enabled by default and decrypted once the phone is unlocked. If you never setup a passcode on your phone, that just means that whoever has the phone can just unlock your device and have access to your data. If your device is powered off however, or in some state where you can't turn on the phone, another person can't just dismantle the phone, grab the flash memory chip, and put it in another device to read it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please share a link where someone can buy a new 512GB Ultra for $1,200 USD. How can Internal Storage be "encrypted" when after you use a passcode or biometrics everything is there to be taken. Who cares if the OS is encrypted? Thieves want your data, not the source code for the OS or anything else. Your explanation that the pandemic retarded sales seem at odds with the reality that governments were throwing around lots of cash. I bought the S21 Ultra and a new laptop, all with government handouts. People can rightfully disagree over External Memory, myself and millions of users would take advantage of it IF it were available. I passed on the S20 Ultra and will pass on the S22 as well. If Samsung doesn't make sense by the time they release the S23, TOODLES!

varcor said:
Please share a link where someone can buy a new 512GB Ultra for $1,200 USD. How can Internal Storage be "encrypted" when after you use a passcode or biometrics everything is there to be taken. Who cares if the OS is encrypted? Thieves want your data, not the source code for the OS or anything else. Your explanation that the pandemic retarded sales seem at odds with the reality that governments were throwing around lots of cash. I bought the S21 Ultra and a new laptop, all with government handouts. People can rightfully disagree over External Memory, myself and millions of users would take advantage of it IF it were available. I passed on the S20 Ultra and will pass on the S22 as well. If Samsung doesn't make sense by the time they release the S23, TOODLES!
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Did you read my post? The 128gb version is $1200, the 512gb (which is no longer for sale due to supply issues) was $1380. The difference between the two is $180, not $400 as you had previously said. I'm glad you were able to benefit from the handouts. There were plenty of people who either lost their jobs or got their hours/pay reduced during the pandemic. I myself took a pay cut for 2020 so the handouts only partly soften the blow.
I get the point that what everyone is doing it doesn't make it right, but also know that OEMs have access to usage data and have their own cost/benefit analysis. They pulled the SD Card in the S6 series and quickly put it back on the S7 series due to demand. If the declining sales were because of that, this would easily have been back in the S22 series. Like I said though, the market leaders are all without this feature.
Perhaps Samsung ditching that feature made it so people are more open to going to other brands like Xiaomi who are cheaper or Apple themselves. But then if you think about it, how much does a person really care about a feature, if they leave Samsung just to buy a different phone from another OEM that also doesn't have the feature. "If I have to use cloud storage, I might as well use iCloud"? What happened with LG and Sony is basically telling all OEMs involved that ditching the SD Card is fine since those two OEMs never saw any sales boost from having that feature. Manufacturers cater to the market, and the market is saying that SD Cards might be a nice to have feature, but it certainly isn't a main selling point for most people.

beserker15 said:
Did you read my post? The 128gb version is $1200, the 512gb (which is no longer for sale due to supply issues) was $1380. The difference between the two is $180, not $400 as you had previously said. I'm glad you were able to benefit from the handouts. There were plenty of people who either lost their jobs or got their hours/pay reduced during the pandemic. I myself took a pay cut for 2020 so the handouts only partly soften the blow.
I get the point that what everyone is doing it doesn't make it right, but also know that OEMs have access to usage data and have their own cost/benefit analysis. They pulled the SD Card in the S6 series and quickly put it back on the S7 series due to demand. If the declining sales were because of that, this would easily have been back in the S22 series. Like I said though, the market leaders are all without this feature.
Perhaps Samsung ditching that feature made it so people are more open to going to other brands like Xiaomi who are cheaper or Apple themselves. But then if you think about it, how much does a person really care about a feature, if they leave Samsung just to buy a different phone from another OEM that also doesn't have the feature. "If I have to use cloud storage, I might as well use iCloud"? What happened with LG and Sony is basically telling all OEMs involved that ditching the SD Card is fine since those two OEMs never saw any sales boost from having that feature. Manufacturers cater to the market, and the market is saying that SD Cards might be a nice to have feature, but it certainly isn't a main selling point for most people.
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What do mean they're no longer available? Readily available and the price difference is still $400.00.

varcor said:
What do mean they're no longer available? Readily available and the price difference is still $400.00.
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Ummm, isn't that eBay? I meant through official channels, like Samsung's own website, Best Buy, mobile carriers, Amazon (and not a 3rd party Amazon seller). Price difference on eBay doesn't count. Also since the 512gb model is now more rare since it is no longer available retail, the price will likely not drop on places like eBay.

beserker15 said:
Ummm, isn't that eBay? I meant through official channels, like Samsung's own website, Best Buy, mobile carriers, Amazon (and not a 3rd party Amazon seller). Price difference on eBay doesn't count. Also since the 512gb model is now more rare since it is no longer available retail, the price will likely not drop on places like eBay.
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Price difference on ebay doesn't count? It's one of few places you can aquire a 512GB besides a few retail outlets abroad. Here's what doesn't count, any outlets advertising a lower price which don't have the device in stock and never will. $400.00 difference in price where you can actually BUY the device's, not some advertising hummer. Just admit it, it can't be explained away, you're flat wrong!

varcor said:
Price difference on ebay doesn't count? It's one of few places you can aquire a 512GB besides a few retail outlets abroad. Here's what doesn't count, any outlets advertising a lower price which don't have the device in stock and never will. $400.00 difference in price where you can actually BUY the device's, not some advertising hummer. Just admit it, it can't be explained away, you're flat wrong!
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You're joking right? Prices on eBay aren't set by Samsung. Your whole argument is that Samsung is trying to ditch expandable memory by charging $400 more for 512gb to profit. That's completely false. Why stop at $400? If some small phone shop went on clearance and decided to put the 128gb model on eBay for $400, that'll be an $800 difference! lol
If you're comparing what Samsung is charging, you have to base it off of MSRP. The difference is $180. The MSRP of the 128gb model is $1200...not $850 on eBay.

DS1000RR said:
I'm sure I am not the only one who feels like the S22 Ultra is a Galaxy Note...and replaces the S for this year. I'm worried that this may be a permanent thing, and I really hate the design of the S22 Ultra.
Are we going to see a return to the more curved design of the S21 Ultra in the S23 or am I doomed to abandon Samsung in the future and take a bite out of a manky apple?
Any thoughts?
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That most likely WILL depend on sales. Of it's not extradinary good, they'll most likely make it a special edition model and go back to the regular S Series model.

beserker15 said:
The Fold series is more or less still an experiment. The Z Flip 3 was actually a better than expected seller for them but the Fold will never be mainstream until it becomes cheaper and more durable.
Google's scope storage and future changes to Android makes it more and more difficult for apps to access SD Cards.
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Totally agree with both points.
Foldables in gerneral is an "experiment" or a "look what we can do... aren't we smart?" exercise., by Samsung & other manufacturers.
I have owned the Fold1, Fold2 and Fold3 and am now "over it" with Foldabless. period.
Z Flips I have played with but never quite got the point... they are just S series phones with rubbish cameras and a small battery.
Too expensive, too big & heavy (for one handed use or for use when walking), too fragile, etc... basically just not practical as a daily driver long term.
Foldables as a genre will fades away in the next 2-3 years... unless of course Apple releases an iFLip in which case it will be a massive success and a mainstream "must have" device. lol. (sic!)
SD Cards are now only supported on mid range devives (eg A series for Samsung) and not on flagships. Sooner or later SD Cards support will disappear from smartphones entirely.
I think the main reasons for this trend is not security or google changes to android. Heres my own explanation:-
1. performance - SD Cards (even the best ones) struggle to sustain consistent read/write rates for 4k or 8k video and similar high IO functions. If the camera app crashes or produces poor quelity output because the SD card is too too slow, users will post to forums like XDA and trash the manufacturer or the device when really it is the SD Card that is the problem. Some users may return device as "faulty" for a warranty repair. Basically SD Cards on a smartphone are a total PITA for Samsung & other brands. Its much easier for them to drop support for SD Cards then sell users a (more epensive!) device with larger internal storage options.
2. Fake SD Cards (on ebay, Amazon, and other online "tat" markets). Same outcome as for 1. but much worse as data may be lost or corrupted on fake cards & performance is often much lower than advertised. It's diffucult to tell a fake from a genuine item in online markeplace apps.

dezborders said:
Totally agree with both points.
Foldables in gerneral is an "experiment" or a "look what we can do... aren't we smart?" exercise., by Samsung & other manufacturers.
I have owned the Fold1, Fold2 and Fold3 and am now "over it" with Foldabless. period.
Z Flips I have played with but never quite got the point... they are just S series phones with rubbish cameras and a small battery.
Too expensive, too big & heavy (for one handed use or for use when walking), too fragile, etc... basically just not practical as a daily driver long term.
Foldables as a genre will fades away in the next 2-3 years... unless of course Apple releases an iFLip in which case it will be a massive success and a mainstream "must have" device. lol. (sic!)
SD Cards are now only supported on mid range devives (eg A series for Samsung) and not on flagships. Sooner or later SD Cards support will disappear from smartphones entirely.
I think the main reasons for this trend is not security or google changes to android. Heres my own explanation:-
1. performance - SD Cards (even the best ones) struggle to sustain consistent read/write rates for 4k or 8k video and similar high IO functions. If the camera app crashes or produces poor quelity output because the SD card is too too slow, users will post to forums like XDA and trash the manufacturer or the device when really it is the SD Card that is the problem. Some users may return device as "faulty" for a warranty repair. Basically SD Cards on a smartphone are a total PITA for Samsung & other brands. Its much easier for them to drop support for SD Cards then sell users a (more epensive!) device with larger internal storage options.
2. Fake SD Cards (on ebay, Amazon, and other online "tat" markets). Same outcome as for 1. but much worse as data may be lost or corrupted on fake cards & performance is often much lower than advertised. It's diffucult to tell a fake from a genuine item in online markeplace apps.
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3. Space - space the insides of these phones is a premium and the majority of owners don't care for or want SD Cards.
4. IP rating - more slots more issues with securing the IP rating
5. Consumerism - Most people don't want to buy a device with basic 64GB memory then go buy an SD card, they want the device fully loaded and ready to use. You could argue they could add an SD card to the device with 256GB ram but you can't due to (3) space being premium. If they put 256GB ram then they have to sacrifice something to get the space RAM vs SD Card.
This thread has been hijacked and I guarantee this thread will be about SD Cards are good, cloud backups are bad, the group single-digit percentage of owners that want SD Cards are the most important customers, the Note 1-+ is the best, Android 12 sucks.
And we all know the S23 will fail as it will not have an SD Card. I'm still trying to get my head around how amazing the iPhone has done and it has never had, or will, an SD Card slot

lywyn said:
3. Space - space the insides of these phones is a premium and the majority of owners don't care for or want SD Cards.
4. IP rating - more slots more issues with securing the IP rating
5. Consumerism - Most people don't want to buy a device with basic 64GB memory then go buy an SD card, they want the device fully loaded and ready to use. You could argue they could add an SD card to the device with 256GB ram but you can't due to (3) space being premium. If they put 256GB ram then they have to sacrifice something to get the space RAM vs SD Card.
This thread has been hijacked and I guarantee this thread will be about SD Cards are good, cloud backups are bad, the group single-digit percentage of owners that want SD Cards are the most important customers, the Note 1-+ is the best, Android 12 sucks.
And we all know the S23 will fail as it will not have an SD Card. I'm still trying to get my head around how amazing the iPhone has done and it has never had, or will, an SD Card slot
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Agreed. And I apologize for hijacking the thread. I swear I'm not some crazy fanboy but I do get triggered when someone says Samsung is just copying Apple by removing features lol.
Apple is really the only manufacturer that sets its own terms on both features and design (trying to bring back to the OP) and that consumers follow. I don't think anyone loved the notch design at first or the removal of the headphone jack but Apple lovers followed anyway and the trend continued.
Samsung, Google, OnePlus and other OEMs are all reactionaries. They don't have the balls to take such a huge risk by removing features until they know there won't be significant pushback (and if they find out they're wrong, they course correct to bring back the feature to try and win back customers).
The merging of the S Ultra and Note series is a small risk by Samsung. They know there are Note loyalists and they hope that turning the S Ultra into a Note won't upset the regular S Ultra users like the OP. If the S22 Ultra ends up being a flop and enough people complain about the design, my prediction is that the S23 Ultra will then return to the curvy, no S-Pen form and perhaps the Fold 4 may end up being the one that merges with the Note series.