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I just picked an SM-N960W. I don't have an OEM unlock option in the development settings so I am guessing ROMs and TWRP are not an option, but is the snapdragon Note 9 Treble compatible?
No. Samsung just do their own thing really, the OS is so heavily customised that even if it was "Treble compatible", it most likely wouldn't have any impact on speeding up their release cycle.
treble requires an unlocked bootloader.
Note 9 is partially Project Treble enabled...no seamless upgrades.View attachment 4671347
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
bober10113 said:
treble requires an unlocked bootloader.
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I think you're confusing Project Treble with something else. Project Treble is Google's way of offering faster, seamless updates to stock phones. It works on locked bootloaders.
Basically, a Project Treble phone has two system slots, A and B, like a Pixel device. Both slots have a full system image. While you're phone is operating off slot A, the update will actually download and install on slot B. So you can keep using your phone like normal while the update not only downloads in the background but actually installs. Then it prompts you to restart, during which time it switches system slots, and you'll run on slot B until the next update.
I've heard someone else say it requires an unlocked bootloader, and I'm not sure where that information came from, but it's inaccurate. It absolutely works on a locked bootloader.
Samsung could easily implement Project Treble on their phones. The OG Pixel didn't use Treble until it was upgraded to Oreo, then it had the two slots and used seamless updates. Google required all phones that SHIPPED with Oreo to support Project Treble. It appears the Note 9 supports it, it just doesn't implement it. It's a case of Samsung is big enough to do whatever they want.
As I posted above, the Note 9 is Treble enabled. That means that it supports the new hardware driver model. While it doesn't have the A/B partition for seamless upgrades, that makes for faster upgrades nonetheless.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Mr. Orange 645 said:
I think you're confusing Project Treble with something else. Project Treble is Google's way of offering faster, seamless updates to stock phones. It works on locked bootloaders.
Basically, a Project Treble phone has two system slots, A and B, like a Pixel device. Both slots have a full system image. While you're phone is operating off slot A, the update will actually download and install on slot B. So you can keep using your phone like normal while the update not only downloads in the background but actually installs. Then it prompts you to restart, during which time it switches system slots, and you'll run on slot B until the next update.
I've heard someone else say it requires an unlocked bootloader, and I'm not sure where that information came from, but it's inaccurate. It absolutely works on a locked bootloader.
Samsung could easily implement Project Treble on their phones. The OG Pixel didn't use Treble until it was upgraded to Oreo, then it had the two slots and used seamless updates. Google required all phones that SHIPPED with Oreo to support Project Treble. It appears the Note 9 supports it, it just doesn't implement it. It's a case of Samsung is big enough to do whatever they want.
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vagelis said:
As I posted above, the Note 9 is Treble enabled. That means that it supports the new hardware driver model. While it doesn't have the A/B partition for seamless upgrades, that makes for faster upgrades nonetheless.
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I stand corrected then.
speaking of the subject, I would believe these are the two partitions being called as A and B:
bober10113 said:
I stand corrected then.
speaking of the subject, I would believe these are the two partitions being called as A and B:
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Click to collapse
Interesting. I'm not sure, honestly.
Old thread, but I wanted to clear things up for future readers. A/B partitions (aka seamless updates) are not directly related to treble. They are two different things. Our device IS treble enabled, just like all phones that released with 8.0+, since it's a requirement that Google set. This, and the lack of system-as-root, does prevent us from being able to use A/B GSIs (Generic System Image), but we should be able to run a-only GSIs. The only problem you could face is with an exynos device, since the chip usually isn't supported by the GSI maintainer... there is some that do support it though. I haven't tested this myself on my Note9, but I do have some Treble experience with my OP3T that has been treblized.
FallenFlame said:
Old thread, but I wanted to clear things up for future readers. A/B partitions (aka seamless updates) are not directly related to treble. They are two different things. Our device IS treble enabled, just like all phones that released with 8.0+, since it's a requirement that Google set. This, and the lack of system-as-root, does prevent us from being able to use A/B GSIs (Generic System Image), but we should be able to run a-only GSIs. The only problem you could face is with an exynos device, since the chip usually isn't supported by the GSI maintainer... there is some that do support it though. I haven't tested this myself on my Note9, but I do have some Treble experience with my OP3T that has been treblized.
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So what about a Canadian Note9? It's a SM-N960W, and I'd love to try a new GSI rather then running pure stock, but I also don't wanna brick this Note.
MoistPicklez said:
So what about a Canadian Note9? It's a SM-N960W, and I'd love to try a new GSI rather then running pure stock, but I also don't wanna brick this Note.
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ure on a north American device. you can't flash anything apart from stock firmware.
Is this possible, Dual booting stock + custom rom?
bump
chandu4money said:
bump
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Possibly. Android 10 gives dual booting functionality natively, as a way to give developers an easy way to test things on their phones within a clean sandboxed environment. So this could become an easy possibility. I suppose it depends how Android 10 ROMs are delivered to existing phones.
It could be how treble was introduced. New phones that came with 8 as new had to follow treble file system partitioning schemes, but older phones that upgraded to 8 didn't have to be treble compliant.
Android 10 sets out another new partitioning and file system scheme to enable the dual booting functionality.
I haven't looked into this so don't know the answer, but maybe it will be new phones that launch with 10 that can do this and old phones will be up to the manufacturer to decide if they adopt the new file system scheme when upgrading to 10.
Robbo.5000 said:
Possibly. Android 10 gives dual booting functionality natively, as a way to give developers an easy way to test things on their phones within a clean sandboxed environment. So this could become an easy possibility. I suppose it depends how Android 10 ROMs are delivered to existing phones.
It could be how treble was introduced. New phones that came with 8 as new had to follow treble file system partitioning schemes, but older phones that upgraded to 8 didn't have to be treble compliant.
Android 10 sets out another new partitioning and file system scheme to enable the dual booting functionality.
I haven't looked into this so don't know the answer, but maybe it will be new phones that launch with 10 that can do this and old phones will be up to the manufacturer to decide if they adopt the new file system scheme when upgrading to 10.
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So anything yet?
How can I make dual boot?
I initially heard about the possibility here.
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-q-dynamic-android-aosp-gsi/
I remember, not long after, seeing discussions that this could be a potential way to allow dual booting for all. However this seems to have disappeared without a trace as I can't find anything relating to this in any later Android Q/10 announcements.
Even OnePlus 7 & 7 Pro got official recovery for dual booting...
Any progress on this? Couldn't find anything on Multirom either
karanpats said:
Any progress on this? Couldn't find anything on Multirom either
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Unfortunately, not yet...
Isn't an a/b system required for dual booting? For example I remember it being possible on pixels because they have 2 partitions
IoIam said:
Isn't an a/b system required for dual booting? For example I remember it being possible on pixels because they have 2 partitions
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Nope...
I remember it worked on my redmi note 4, which it has not an A/B based system...
I hope its coming soon
It was working perfectly in my old phone (poco f1)
It's nice to have stock and custom
So it seems TWRP might be an issue getting it on our Pixel 4's.
According to @Dees_Troy, its a problem. Seems they don't even have one for the Pixel 3 on Android 10.
@Dees_Troy
"Pixel 4 is in real danger of not getting TWRP for a while after it's released due to all of the changes made in how recovery works in Android 10."
https://mobile.twitter.com/Dees_Troy/status/1171151359564890113
We'll see, fortunately we know we have a working magisk and that actually takes care of everything I do although I miss the convenience of TWRP, no question. The guy seems to work miracles so I wouldn't be surprised to see him figure it out. If not, I suppose I can only be thankful for everything he's done for us already and wish him luck in his next endeavor. I gotta be honest here, way back on windows phone I was surprised the door wasn't being closed on all this stuff. When Android came along it was like the wild west and I thought there was no way it could go on. Now we're here and iin many respects still having our way with our phone. It's been a pretty good ride.
krabman said:
We'll see, fortunately we know we have a working magisk and that actually takes care of everything I do although I miss the convenience of TWRP, no question. The guy seems to work miracles so I wouldn't be surprised to see him figure it out. If not, I suppose I can only be thankful for everything he's done for us already and wish him luck in his next endeavor. I gotta be honest here, way back on windows phone I was surprised the door wasn't being closed on all this stuff. When Android came along it was like the wild west and I thought there was no way it could go on. Now we're here and iin many respects still having our way with our phone. It's been a pretty good ride.
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Yea, hopefully I pray he'll figure it out for sure.
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
MicroMod777 said:
So it seems TWRP might be an issue getting it on our Pixel 4's.
According to @Dees_Troy, its a problem. Seems they don't even have one for the Pixel 3 on Android 10.
@Dees_Troy
"Pixel 4 is in real danger of not getting TWRP for a while after it's released due to all of the changes made in how recovery works in Android 10."
https://mobile.twitter.com/Dees_Troy/status/1171151359564890113
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He will get it there is always a way
Damm that's not good.
Personally, I don't need recovery. My first pixel device and the last thing I want to do is flash some half baked custom ROM for it. Everything I need can be flashed through magisk or EXKM. As long as I can root, I'm good
I'll leave @Dees_Troy's full statement - dated 23rd October 2019 - given on the official TWRP website here as well:
Please note that this post is primary related to TWRP and the Pixel 3 and 4 and devices that may ship in the future that ship with Android 10 as their original version of Android. Older non-Pixel devices that shipped with older versions of Android and receive upgrades to Android 10 are not affected.
Long story short, TWRP support for Android 10 is going to take a while.
Android 10 brings about the largest changes to the way AOSP implements recovery since Google shifted recovery from C to C++ when they moved from Android 4.0 to 4.1 more than 7 years ago. A lot of components in AOSP recovery were moved into subfolders, which makes merging the latest changes into TWRP more time consuming. At least on the Pixel 3, the ramdisk that we use for recovery is now handling part of normal boot in addition to recovery, so we're not sure what the best way will be to go about replacing recovery without affecting the ability to boot up normally. In addition, the way Google is building the ramdisk on the Pixel 3 is a lot different than the past. In the past, the executable binaries in the ramdisk were built as static binaries with no linked libraries. TWRP has almost always been built with separate linked libraries. The new dynamically linked stock ramdisk will make it harder for us to slip TWRP into the ramdisk.
Once we get TWRP compiling with the new changes from 10, we have some additional items that need consideration. As mentioned above, the stock ramdisk is using dynamic linking. Unlike TWRP, the stock ramdisk places the executables and libraries in the usual locations inside a /system folder. Normally TWRP leaves /system alone so that we can mount the system partition to its usual location of /system. If we leave things the way they are on the Pixel 3, mounting the system partition gets tricky. A lot of custom zips depend on mounting the system partition to /system.
Android 10 also introduces a new dynamic partitioning system. Instead of having a dedicated system partition and a dedicated vendor partition, etc. Android 10 uses a super partition. I like to think of the super partition as a partition that contains a bunch of smaller partitions. One of the side effects of this dynamic partition system is that Google has chosen to use a form of the ext4 file system that is for all intents and purposes, read-only. This choice means that even if you wanted to, you can't easily mount and modify the system partition. We haven't really discussed this with other developers yet, but it may impact your ability to do things like install Gapps. In addition, the dynamic partition model means that eventually, we should probably provide you, the user, some GUI driven tools in TWRP to allow you to manage the dynamic partitions that are on the super partition.
On top of all of the above, I, Dees_Troy, am the one who usually handles merges of new versions of Android. My wife is currently pregnant with our fourth child. I am quite busy with my growing family and the need to find a bigger house, so my time for working on TWRP right now is somewhat limited. So, I guess please be patient, or feel free to download the TWRP source code and make the needed changes yourself.
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Source: twrp.me
My guess is: we got to get familiar with manually patching boot images regarding Magisk, and maybe with flashin ROMs shipping as a GSI (Generic System Image). First time I made such an assumption was, when the first GSIs startet popping up in the respective section here on XDA, and I still guess that this is the way to go for future modding.
5m4r7ph0n36uru said:
I'll leave @Dees_Troy's full statement - dated 23rd October 2019 - given on the official TWRP website here as well:
Source: twrp.me
My guess is: we got to get familiar with manually patching boot images regarding Magisk, and maybe with flashin ROMs shipping as a GSI (Generic System Image). First time I made such an assumption was, when the first GSIs startet popping up in the respective section here on XDA, and I still guess that this is the way to go for future modding.
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This has been known since before we even got our devices in hand, statement has been shared long ago... When it was new.
wrongway213 said:
This has been known since before we even got our devices in hand, statement has been shared long ago... When it was new.
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Yes, I know. But I saw yet another thread about TWRP for Pixel on Android 10 popping up, which implies that this thread, as well as this information still isn't widely spread/known as of yet. Just wanted to prevent further TWRP threads popping up on Pixel 4 forums.
Sent from my Google Pixel 4 XL using XDA Labs
5m4r7ph0n36uru said:
Yes, I know. But I saw yet another thread about TWRP for Pixel on Android 10 popping up, which implies that this thread, as well as this information still isn't widely spread/known as of yet. Just wanted to prevent further TWRP threads popping up on Pixel 4 forums.
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You can't prevent the inevitable. There's always going to some users who don't understand how to use Google or XDA search
GOOGLE Pixel 4XL (coral) - QQ1B.200105.004 - Android 10 . My same rig.
Any updates on TWRP?
kb5rir said:
GOOGLE Pixel 4XL (coral) - QQ1B.200105.004 - Android 10 . My same rig.
Any updates on TWRP?
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Click to collapse
No
Can you boot (not flash) to TWRP on the Pixel 4 XL? The only convenience I'll miss compared to my Pixel 2XL is being able to boot to TWRP and flash Magisk if so...
WorldOfJohnboy said:
Can you boot (not flash) to TWRP on the Pixel 4 XL? The only convenience I'll miss compared to my Pixel 2XL is being able to boot to TWRP and flash Magisk if so...
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No, it's got to do with the dynamic partitions and mounting /system. From what I've read, even if you booted twrp it would no be functional.
I can only imagine the effects of this dynamic partition on other useful projects like microG...we have our work cut out for us here. I smell innovation!
Hi ! I have juste my pixel 4a 5g two days new in teampixel now.
I come from oneplus & xiaomi to pixel.
I love it but they hadn't many features on settings ex: status bar remove some icons and center clock.
I have a question do you know when they had a Twrp for it ? And if I root it (Always root my devices for mods) no do format data ? And use remove force encryption ? Only unlock BL and flash boot.img ?
I hope there will be devs who will create mods eg: face id & kernel & custom rom.
Have a good day..
TWRP is going to be awhile due to issues with Pixel devices and the A/B boot system among other things. Patience here is going to be required especially for a newer Pixel device like the 4a 5G.
You can unlock the bootloader the same as you would any Pixel device. That means reboot into the bootloader, type "fastboot flashing unlock" and follow the steps to confirm the unlock. Keep in mind this wipes your device as a factory reset would.
As far as rooting the device, use the canary builds of Magisk to achieve this. Again, the rooting steps are the same as previous pixel devices requiring you to patch the boot.img from the factory image and then flash it via fastboot.
rspkt said:
TWRP is going to be awhile due to issues with Pixel devices and the A/B boot system among other things.
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A/B has been pretty standard for like 5 years now. I had a nexus 6p, pixel xl, pixel 2xl - all A/B all have TWRP. Even the Pixel 4 is *officially* supported by TWRP now. https://twrp.me/google/googlepixel4xl.html
I've never had to wait this long to get an *UNofficial* working version.
mistermojorizin said:
Even the Pixel 4 is *officially* supported by TWRP now. https://twrp.me/google/googlepixel4xl.html
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Considering the P4 (a phone released in September 2019) JUST got official support I guess it doesn't seem like that quick of a process to me?
OptoChip said:
Considering the P4 (a phone released in September 2019) JUST got official support I guess it doesn't seem like that quick of a process to me?
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the p4 got officially supported. usually there's unofficial support pretty quickly.
the other thing i was just pointing out it's not the a/b system like the previous poster said.
Yes but they had many phone with A/B on Android 11 comes recently had Twrp "Oneplus" & "Xiaomi" yes is unofficial but works.
I tthink it's because they had more community.
I have rooted MIUI 13.0.4. Global on my device. I want to be able to install OTA updates whenever it comes. I don't want to go through the hassle of unhrooting and rehrooting my phone in order to install every single update.
I was searching for information regarding this when I saw on a forum that OTA updates can be installed on Mi A2 by utilising A/B partitions. I found on phhusson treble_experimentations GitHub wiki page that Redmi Note 10 Pro support A/B type image. Also 'Treble Info app shows that this device use an A/B Operating System. But this app also shows that Seamless System Updates are not supported.
Can anyone using stock MIUI confirm this using Treble Info or Treble Check app?
I did some more google+ing and found some more info.
[RECOVERY] [12] [OFFICIAL] TeamWin Recovery Project
Introduction: Team Win Recovery Project or TWRP for short, is a custom recovery built with ease of use and customization in mind. We started from the ground up by taking AOSP recovery and loading it with the standard recovery options, then added...
forum.xda-developers.com
But the main question still remains. Does it support Seamless System Updates or no!
It doesn't.
I used 'fastboot getvar all to confirm this as well as Treble Check app.