My specific issue involves SetCPU but I'm wondering about the larger scheme of how things work.
My phone gets hot in the car dock when running GPS, Navigation, and Bluetooth (I don't turn it on but I think my dock does it automatically). The general consensus is to underclock slightly when charging because charging generates heat, and I have a SetCPU profile to do that. Then comes the issue of heat generated from GPS and Bluetooth, and possibly processor load when running apps while docked, so I have two profiles for that: one to underclock a few steps down from the charging CPU speed when the temperature of the phone is at 40* C, another to clock down one more step when the temp hits 42* C, which I feel is at the point the phone gets a little too warm for use.
I've noticed that my phone doesn't necessarily stay cooler and in fact, sometimes it gets hotter than before I started using SetCPU. Over the past few days I've seen temps of near 45* C (113* F), toasty enough that I have to let my phone cool down before I can use it again.
So, my question is if underclocking too much is bad. For example, if I'm underclocking too much, does that strain the processor while it is trying to run apps and hardware? Is it better to let the system handle processor speed? I see this in driving a manual/standard transmission car - if I attack a hill in a high gear, I can eventually reach the top but with increased load on my engine. Maybe the processor speed works opposite - too low and it strains too much?
I used to be concerned about clock speed vs. battery life but now that I'm docking in my car more and noticing the heat, I'm more concerned about the heat. I'm currently using redstar's kernel but get the same results with that or the CM kernel that comes with the nightlies.
If it helps to troubleshoot, or if you want to critique me, here's my profile list.
Normal: 245 min, 998 max (default settings)
Priority 100 - temp > 42*C: 460 max, 245 min
P 90 - temp > 40*C: 499 max, 245 min
P 80 - screen off: 384 max, 245 min
P 70 - charging AC: 576 max, 245 min
(SetCPU related question, sorry if this is too far off forum topic) Are there better profile settings I could be using?
Also, I don't quite understand undervolting in terms of kernels. What effect does that have, if any?
Does any have experience with editing the available CPU frequencies? I want to go to a lower frequency than 1113 GHz. So, the opposite of overclocking. From what I understand, it requires either editing the kernel or getting an entirely different one - which I am not capable of doing myself.
As it bugs me (and probably you) how fast the battery drains on Mi 6x, I looked in the CPU settings.
As it looks:
CPU 0 to 3 run on a minimum frequency of 633 GHz each.
CPU 4 to 7 run on a minimum frequency of a whopping 1113 GHz each.
When I put the phone into standby, it continues to run on 1113 GHz on 4 cores. So, is it surprising that Mi 6x drains battery? No. (In addition to a massive screen that requires extra battery, in addition to a smaller battery... very smart engineering here) Imagine you'd put your laptop into standby and it would continue to work with half its processor speed. Not acceptable.
daokris said:
Does any have experience with editing the available CPU frequencies? I want to go to a lower frequency than 1113 GHz. So, the opposite of overclocking. From what I understand, it requires either editing the kernel or getting an entirely different one - which I am not capable of doing myself.
As it bugs me (and probably you) how fast the battery drains on Mi 6x, I looked in the CPU settings.
As it looks:
CPU 0 to 3 run on a minimum frequency of 633 GHz each.
CPU 4 to 7 run on a minimum frequency of a whopping 1113 GHz each.
When I put the phone into standby, it continues to run on 1113 GHz on 4 cores. So, is it surprising that Mi 6x drains battery? No. (In addition to a massive screen that requires extra battery, in addition to a smaller battery... very smart engineering here) Imagine you'd put your laptop into standby and it would continue to work with half its processor speed. Not acceptable.
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Hello. It is normal for the processor to operate at its normal frequency while the phone is idle. There are plenty of processes in the background. If you have root rights, then you can download an application like (l speed) through this application, I put my battery my processor and the data in the background that allows me a loss of only 1% over a period from 10 am
If I'm not mistaken, your processor cores should go into deep sleep state when you turn your screen off. If they stay on 633/1113 then something is probably keeping the phone awake and battery is going to suck.
Download Dev Check to see how long the cores stay on certain frequencies. If you leave your screen off for most of the time, then most of the graph should show "Deep Sleep" instead of any other frequency.
I have this tabled for a long time, but as i rarely used it i didn't bother with it much. From day one back in 2014 the tablet was sluggish and laggy, today is just unbearable even for browsing. So i have decided to take a look of what can i do.
I have installed the latest (10.26.2019) LineageOS-14.1-Deathly with gapps nano.
I have installed CPU Throttling Test from the play store and start testing to see what's going on. I saw that the CPU Throttle instantly (like in 10-15 sec max) from 1900mhz to 600mhz, and this is where the sluggishness comes from, the CPU is constantly throttled no matter that you are just looking at a simple web page.
I started playing with the Deathly Adiutor and under-voltage the cpu, set the max to 1400mhz and this is where it is stable as it is. At 1400mhz constant 100% CPU stress the CPU temps are around 90c (at 95 the cpu starts throttling). Anything above 1400mhz even with under voltages CPU results in throttling within 1-2 min, but even like that at 1400mhz and GPU set to be always used and at minimum of 480mhz (with setting in dev options to always use gpu for 2d composition) the performance was really much much better then the stock settings.
I have continued to play with it and noticed that if i apply pressure with my fingers on the back panel just below the camera where is the most hottest, the temps are dropping 10-15C, so i have opened it and i saw the issue.
The issue is that the metal shield radiators does not make a good contact with the thermal pad on the back panel, and thus can't dissipate the heat well. This may variety from user to user as some back panels will make better or worse contact, but its far from ideal.
Its good that i have some spare thermal pads around and i have applied them, and the result is perfect, drop in 12-17Cfrom stock setup under continues stress.
As a final result i have managed to bump the CPU from 1400mhz to 1600mhz with 1087mV voltage and at max 84C (down from around 90 at 1400mhz) at constant 100% CPU stress. The performance gains are around 100 to 150% (At around 42-47k GIPS up from 20-25k GIPS stock in CPU Throttling test). Additionally i have to say, its extremely easy to open the back cover panel.
Furthermore, i made an video to see how it runs and the settings i use.
https://youtu.be/_UJdjPDQB00
I'm attaching before and after the mod photos.
Quick followup, i have run 3D Mark benchmark and PCmark, see the screenshots below. Managed to achieve the world fastest Tab S, enjoy
Awesome.. I followed ur recommendations and set 1087mv at 1600mhz and its fasttttt
rihui said:
Awesome.. I followed ur recommendations and set 1087mv at 1600mhz and its fasttttt
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Thanks mate. I'm glad it helps According to 3DMark, the performance now is slightly better then Galaxy Tab A 2019, it really bring new life to this tablet and its ready to rock another couple of years
how's your battery life with minimum CPU speed at 1600
Screen on & Standby time?
rihui said:
how's your battery life with minimum CPU speed at 1600
Screen on & Standby time?
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Click to collapse
Its not the minimum CPU frequency that gives you the performance boost, its the maximum frequency limit at 1600mhz down from 1900mhz, as i explained, to gain the performance, you need to avoid CPU from overheating and throttle down itself to the ground. That's why the max frequency with the thermal pads and improved thermals is 300mhz below the stock 1900mhz, and without the pads my max stable frequency were 1400mhz (500mhz below stock).
The minimum frequency will only smooth out initial animations and things like that, but don't have much of an impact on the overall performance. With that said, increasing the minimum frequency ofc will eat more battery and you don't need it, you can safely set it to 650mhz (as low as it allows) and depending on your kernel governor policy should have the same or better battery life. As i said, the main gainer is preventing the CPU from overheating at 1900mhz and throttle down to 650mhz where it sits most of the time with stock settings.
In fact if you limit your max frequency to 1400 or 1600mhz depending on your stable thermal results, and set minimum to 650mhz, you will see the performance gain AND significantly increased battery life due to that CPU does not go to 1900mhz and does not eat that much power and voltage. You really need to fine tune it depending on your needs, but at stock CPU throttling down to 650mhz and staying there is an manufacturer (Samsung) failure, and if i were discovered this when i bought it, i would wanted refund, as they advertise 1900mhz CPU which almost never works at that frequency.
I tested this method on other tablets and phones, and while it happens on other devices to throttle down after 5-7 mins (not after 15 sec), i have never seen to throttle more then down to 80% of the advertised frequency, but the Tab S goes almost immediately down to 35% where it stays and cripple the device. Its really really bad engineering from Samsung.
Going to try this.
Thanks
A lot better .
What thickness of thermal pad should I buy? Probably will buy from Amazon unless I need to make a trip to Microcenter. Thanks for this suggestion @nauvho
osutx427 said:
What thickness of thermal pad should I buy? Probably will buy from Amazon unless I need to make a trip to Microcenter. Thanks for this suggestion @nauvho
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Well as you can see on the picture, the CPU bed already has one black pad by Samsung by default which is around 0.2/0.3mm i think, but it does not make contact, so i put on the CPU radiator 1mm pad and on the other radiators i put 0.5mm to equalize in case my pad is too thick. Your guide should be how easy is to close the back-plate, if you need too much force you may need thinner. So i guess you can take 0.3, 0.5 and 1mm pads.
effing A
Wow
Applied the same settings that you show in the video and WOW! It's like a new tablet. I didn't even put thermal pads.
joelcool69 said:
Applied the same settings that you show in the video and WOW! It's like a new tablet. I didn't even put thermal pads.
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nice
just rooted t800 with MM + trw + SU.
added some thermal pads like in the pics.
installed Deathly Adiutor ....which said that doesn't like the kernel..and doesn't let to change the cpu max speed, and the voltage page doesn't even exist
installed Kernel Adiutor from playstore with which I can lower the freq, and for 1600 it works 1-2min at 27-28000GIPS then starts to throttle
louis_alphons said:
just rooted t800 with MM + trw + SU.
added some thermal pads like in the pics.
installed Deathly Adiutor ....which said that doesn't like the kernel..and doesn't let to change the cpu max speed, and the voltage page doesn't even exist
installed Kernel Adiutor from playstore with which I can lower the freq, and for 1600 it works 1-2min at 27-28000GIPS then starts to throttle
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Click to collapse
Why are you using MM? Also, did you noticed that center pad is thicker and side ones are tinnier? what are your CPU temps? Also probably due to MM, but I'm getting around 42gpis (average) at 1.6, but you should really check your pads placement, thickness and temps, put the CPU under load note the temps before throttling down.
nauvho said:
Why are you using MM? Also, did you noticed that center pad is thicker and side ones are tinnier? what are your CPU temps? Also probably due to MM, but I'm getting around 42gpis (average) at 1.6, but you should really check your pads placement, thickness and temps, put the CPU under load note the temps before throttling down.
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I'm using MM since I don't know if it worth to upgrade; does this LineageOS work well...all features (cam, scanner, soud etc) works with it?
used 1mm pad over the cpu... 0.5 otherwise (china made); also removed the small factory pad and placed another pad patch there; the back cover heats well and I assume that the heat doesn't have where to go.
since it's not throttling at 1600MHZ (almost 100%, take a look at the pic)...from where to get more than 28GIPS?
louis_alphons said:
I'm using MM since I don't know if it worth to upgrade; does this LineageOS work well...all features (cam, scanner, soud etc) works with it?
used 1mm pad over the cpu... 0.5 otherwise (china made); also removed the small factory pad and placed another pad patch there; the back cover heats well and I assume that the heat doesn't have where to go.
since it's not throttling at 1600MHZ (almost 100%, take a look at the pic)...from where to get more than 28GIPS?
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I don't think removing the stock black pad were a good idea, I did not removed mine, my pad is next to it. Also CPU throttle app is not reliable to monitor cpu temp (at least for me) , you should do it by starting the throttle test and then switch to deathly auditor and monitor the temp and clock there or other app like CPUz or Aida. Look at the video how I monitored the temp. The CPU will start throttle at 93-95c so your temp of 81 cannot be accurate if it throttle. Didn't you said that you throttle at 1.6 in your previous post?
Regarding the performance I think it might be eigher app difference between mm and 7.1 or due to MM itself. And yes everything is working perfectly for me with lineage, camera, fingerprint, everything is fine and it is mile better then MM imo.
installed 7.1
pcmark 4330 with your mods.
so the thermal pads doesn't matter on MM.
from my testings on 7.1 the boost in pcmark comes form setting max freq 1600 + undervoltage (3000->3500), and another boost...by setting the lower freq to 1600 (3500->4300)
louis_alphons said:
installed 7.1
pcmark 4330 with your mods.
so the thermal pads doesn't matter on MM.
from my testings on 7.1 the boost in pcmark comes form setting max freq 1600 + undervoltage (3000->3500), and another boost...by setting the lower freq to 1600 (3500->4300)
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Click to collapse
Nice.
About the pads, they matter only if the CPU temp under load drops when you apply pressure with fingers on the back cover as i explained in my first post, but idk if this apply to all tablets or just mine. The boost comes from not throttling the CPU down and being stable at maximum possible frequency. The CPU can go up to 1900mhz and beyond (2.1 by spec), but the cooling is not enough for that frequencies.
I think that adding an 0.5-1mm copper heat pipe thru radiators or copper heat pads similar to flagship phones might push it to 1.9, will order some someday and try it.
now it will be interesting ?% it's the termal mod in this boost, which means, performing the test in PCMARK only with steps 1+2:
1. LineageOS-14.1-Deathly
2. Deathly Adiutor (which requires step 1) + CPU max freq 1600 + undervoltage at that freq + CPU min freq 1600
3. Thermal pads added inside the box.
Since I started with thermal pads...I can say that in MM it doesn't matter.
-after upgrade to 7.1 as I said..PC...MArk around 3000 (thermal pads mounted)
-after setting max freq 1600 + undervoltage I got a boost in PCMark to 3600
-in addition, with min freq 1600...got another boost..to 4300; in this turbo state..the battery drains quickly, but the interface it's fast like the wind.
PCMark doesn't use CPU at 100%, it counts also how fast cand do certain short tasks...and this matters because if CPU it's in it's low power states..it loose time to rise its freq and do the calc at full power.
louis_alphons said:
now it will be interesting ?% it's the termal mod in this boost, which means, performing the test in PCMARK only with steps 1+2:
1. LineageOS-14.1-Deathly
2. Deathly Adiutor (which requires step 1) + CPU max freq 1600 + undervoltage at that freq + CPU min freq 1600
3. Thermal pads added inside the box.
Since I started with thermal pads...I can say that in MM it doesn't matter.
-after upgrade to 7.1 as I said..PC...MArk around 3000 (thermal pads mounted)
-after setting max freq 1600 + undervoltage I got a boost in PCMark to 3600
-in addition, with min freq 1600...got another boost..to 4300; in this turbo state..the battery drains quickly, but the interface it's fast like the wind.
PCMark doesn't use CPU at 100%, it counts also how fast cand do certain short tasks...and this matters because if CPU it's in it's low power states..it loose time to rise its freq and do the calc at full power.
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Thermal mode does matter alot, CPU thermals is everything, the lower temps are, the higher frequency you can push the CPU, more frequency = more performance. As i said, without the thermal pads i could not get 1.6ghz to be stable, only 1.4 were stable-ish.
In stock rom, CPU governor and states are set according to the temps with the stock cooling. But if you don't change settings it wont change much. However Samsung engineers did a terrible job with those default settings, so as i explained in my first post only doing the software changes had dramatic impact on the performance because you get the CPU stable even at 1.4, but the thermal mod push it further to 1.6
The true performance benchmark is the 3DMARK (my screenshots 3 and 4 for score "ice storm unlimited" test and "Sling Shot" test) this will push your CPU and GPU to the max, PCMark is more about daily use performance and also can be used to measure battery performance between different settings.
Yes leaving CPU with minimum of 1.6 will drain battery more quickly naturally, is using more power, i leave mine at 1.2 as minimum, but minimum speed should not matter much in benchmarks if you are using the same as mine CPU governor. CPU governor basically tells the CPU how to behave, like how quickly to rise the frequency, for how long and etc.
Most of your know about this problem. People complaining about phone heating, phone shuts down in the middle of gaming, heating while gaming with 90hz in all forums. But no one come up with the solution and Some even told us to send the phone to get serviced [yeah, but even then the service center will say that it is motherboard fault, which is the costliest replacement of all around 25k INR]
[NOTE: I want this to be heard by ASUS to release software update. If you are a moderator of any Asus forum or who could contact ASUS dev, share this thread with them]
First and foremost we have to understand what is causing the problem. And everyone who is facing the problem knows Its the Temperature causing the shutdown. But ASUS never implemented any Warnings to to the UI, instead they give active cooler to 256+ GB version, while leaving 128 GB owners stranded. I faced the shut down problem when updating to A10 around a year back.
Every time when I game outdoor on warm condition (around 30 degrees) and After few months of updates, it started to shut down very frequently. So I switched back and forth to custom ROMs and even to stock A9s.
Faced the worst embarrassment "Gaming phone shuts down in front of cousins who were playing in budget phone"
Finally my Gaming phone become a phone which cant game anymore.
Finding the real Problem:
After researching about android thermals and I even tried to stop the shutdown from happening to my device. But I failed and my device successfully shuts down when there is a chance.
I switched to custom rom and installed GCAM. On taking few photos, my phone died. After restarting and enabling the CPU overlay which shown the temperature and clock speed of CPU. Opened GCAM and took some photos the temperature rose from 40-65 degrees in an instant and it died and I noted all the CPU cores are ran at max clockspeed.
So, I switched back to stock rom, used Armoury crate to limit and limited the CPU clock speed of GCAM, Again same result phone died (like the custom rom Armoury crate displayed the max clock speed of 2.96 Ghz, though the app was being set to use lower clock of 1.92 Ghz)
After using and failing to limit CPU clock using kernels, It was conclusive that the temperature is not causing the issue, "NO_THROTTLING" of CPU does.
During heavy load on CPU like gaming or benchmarking, all CPU cores will run at high clock speed, which increases the temperature of CPU. To counterfeit this, the system applies slightly lower max clock speed to all its cores, makes the CPU to run at slightly lower clock speed. As the temperature increases the max clock speed will get reduced till it can no longer produces heat (auto cooldown) on doing work. Same applies for GPU. This is called throttling.
What will happen, when throttling doesn't happen? All CPU and GPU cores run at max speed which increase the temperature, when there is nothing to stop the rising temperature. The temperature rises further [A10's thermal management kicks in] and shuts the device.
During charging, the CPU temperature will be higher due to battery dissipating the heat, so when there is even slight load on CPU (background activities like downloading) rapid rise in temperature even for few milliseconds kills device.
Maybe none of the testing devices have this problem & none of the developer devices have this problem, but this problem does exist and I'm asking ASUS to release the patch for devices which lacks controlling CPU clock speed via Armoury create, and fix the device which doesn't throttle (thermal engine)
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Temporary Solution: Manually down clock the CPU and GPU
After so many failed attempt to apply lower clock to CPU, I found the location where the max clock speed file was located.
[I modified the file and put together in tasker (paid app to automate things) found my CPU finally throttled again]
I shared the values taken from asus thermal management applied those values and uploaded it.
Be careful, This might brick your device if used improperly, if that happens you might need to flash raw image so backup anything important. Don't point me the finger afterwards. If you are okay with that lets proceed.
We Need root access and root browser. If you have root access open any root browser and Extract the attached zip file
It has two folders and some files. CPU Reading folder has all the CPU max clock speed you can use to apply lower clock.
the folder contains 9 digit number like 295241178
First 3 number denotes max clock speed of Prime core i.e., 2.96Ghz
Next 3 numbers denotes max clock speed of Big core i.e., 2.4Ghz
Last 3 number denotes max clock speed of little core i.e., 1.78Ghz
for GPU First 3 number is the MHz of max clock (6750 is 675 MHz)
Select the clock speed you need
(lower number = lower clock speed = low performance = less heating
Higher number = high clock speed = better performance = more heating)
CPU has 9 different clock speed littleBigPrime combos
Gpu has 5 different combos
Applying clock speed
Replace the CPU file cpu_max_freq to the folder /sys/module/msm_performance/parameters
Replace the Gpu file max_gpuclk value to the folder /sys/devices/platform/soc/2c00000.qcom,kgsl-3d0/kgsl/kgsl-3d0
Replace those files and see if your device shuts down on gaming, if it does choose the lower value and repeat the process.
Everything should work properly now. It might not be great solution but it will prevent shutdown.
-x-x--x-x-x--x-x--x-x-x-x--x-x--x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x-
Im creating an app to solve this, which is in progress. Will update once everything is done.
por favor, preciso deste aplicatirvo!
venkatesh321 said:
Im creating an app to solve this, which is in progress. Will update once everything is done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you done making the app, cuz i really need it rn
its power ic related issue. throttling app is reducing the performance