Greetings all, hope the weekend is going smashing for everyone. As we all know, B&N has been very... lax (obvious) in their promises to update the NC with more user-friendly capabilities. For lack of a better phrase, I've had enough. Today, 2-26-11, I sent B&N a rather abrasive email in the hopes to start some form of open discussion, express my opinion, and inform them that they've got some 'splainin' to do.
Below is the email I sent, although I have edited my name and phone number that I included, for security purposes. As a note, if the email I receive in return uses the phrase "we are working on it as fast as we can," "please be patient," or some other pandering jargon, I do plan to resend this every Saturday until I either receive a response that has some weight behind it, or receive a Cease and Desist writ from them.
Why? For the simple fact that I want them to keep their promise and provide us, the user, with the better experience that we are requesting.
I will continue to update this thread with any following information that comes my way.
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Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
Saved for whatever happens later.
Wow... honestly i think that letter is the worst thing ive read. Honestly, i dont care that they havent updated it. Its rather a blessing how unlocked they left the device. Fact of the matter is that the Nook is a eReader, a highly over powered eReader, that they built and developed ontop of the android system for the ease of use and not having to build a entire custom OS.
Honestly the nook color is the best 250 ive spent in a long time. If i wanted a "tablet" i would have bought a gtab or galaxy. Its pretty common practice for companies nowadays to delay updating software. Honestly why update software when 1: it works.. pretty well too 2: technology is moving faster then software. why update a outdated device?
Its up to you and me and the android developers to keep old devices updated with new and fun software. Thats why so many developers do what they do without making a income off it while spending hours and hours on it. In the end, Barnes and Noble is a business that needs money and updating the nook is not going to bring in the big bucks, if any at all.
Sent from one of those missing Droids or Nook Color on HoneyComb
Your letter.
I assume in part you posted this here because you want feedback.
First, I am in no way affiliated with B&N. I am a user just like you.
I am extremely happy with the Nook.
I like it precisely because they made left it (probably unintentionaly) booting first to the SD.
This in turn has allowed the devs wide open to make bootable images that can be written to the sd.
I believe the company made some forward looking statements that said they wanted to do more with the device. So far in three months, they have released 3 builds. That's actually remarkable when you consider that unlike the developers here, they have to release rock solid well tested stable builds.
Nookie Froyo is really nice. No doubt CM7 and Honeycomb will soon be also...but in the end they both have more problems than an average user could reasonably accept.
Given that their system is so remarkably open, it is my opinion that there is really no better tablet in the ballpark of it on the price.
As a computer professional, I actualy recommended to my friends on facebook, thst they send B&N execs valentines heart candies expressing unending love.
At the end of the day, in my book, they need not hurry because they have given us the best of both worlds.
Take away the boot order....and I never would have bought it at all.
Meenwhile, at apple, they are taking the walled garden to a whole new level....which can only push up prices 30%....
You'll probably get the standard "Thank you for your email, we're working as has as we can email." Even if they were going to send a real email back, what are they going to respond to? Give specific examples of what your issues you have. "bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet"", doesn't really mean anything.
Why does it matter how their UI is when you can put whatever UI on the thing when its rooted.
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
madfatter said:
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
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Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
I have to agree with others here.. why do you care, I see you have rooted you Nook Color. Do you prefer (or are waiting on) that B&N deliver something better that what you can have? Get real,... is you rooted NC not enough? B&N does books, and quite well I might add, they don't do tablets. Although they do seem to have out done everyone else.
Product F(RED) said:
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
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*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
Trey_Miller said:
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
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they have a UI built for putting shortcuts to your books and magazines on your homescreens so you have easy access to your favorite books or favorite magazine, their reader UI is simple and easy to use and their music player although isnt the best music player out there it gets the job done. the average user wouldnt need any more than that and imo they did a pretty good job at turning android 2.1 into an ereader OS
Trey_Miller said:
Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
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i agree with you in that aspect that they should keep their word but i also disagree with the fact they they should update it to froyo or add anything to the user experience
non techies dont need these features in an ereader if its anything they(meaning B&N) should just fix bugs in their system
if they update it to froyo they will be requested to include flash 10.1 and all other goodies froyo includes and that can actually degrade the user experience more than enhance it
flash although necessary for a full web browsing experience it isnt required for a good one
flash kills battery faster than anything else even on wifi(steve jobs got this one right) and it can slow down your device big time(although it might not happen it still is a possibility)
if you want to request a feature for the average user you should request a youtube app or something, non techies will love youtube capabilities on their ereader and the youtube app will not degrade the user experience one bit
and i apologize for my grammar but i really dont care about grammar because this is the internet and on the internet grammar doesnt matter
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
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again to people who dont root, its an ereader NOT a tablet
compare the NC to the Nook or the kindle feature to feature and i can guarantee you that the nook color has the most features for the tech
it has alot of unnessary features for an ereader but it has them so it can be the best in its category(ereader)
if you look at some reviews of this device you will notice that they all say that this device is a great contender to an actual tablet
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't?
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The fact that I'm not a mind-reader. Also, the way you worded your original post implies that you haven't. You said you're not looking for a tablet, but rather a single-purpose device. But that's not the point. If you're not happy with it, sell it. Most people are. We like that it's open and can be turned into a cheap multi-purpose tablet. There's a fine line between showing dissatisfaction and insult. Typing up a grammatically correct email that insults the developers is not the way to go about it. I hope you realize that they still have your money, whether or not you decide to sell it. So you might as well make use of it.
Trey_Miller said:
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
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again i also agree that they should update their ui but not to really add features but to fix glitches and bugs(maybe add a youtube app but im running honeycomb so this doesnt affect me to much due to me already having youtube capabilities) and about the load your own books point
if they allowed a user to do that they will lose money
now i dont know if they are selling the nook at a negative or at a positive income but i do know that their intention is to sell B&N books to users using the nook color, and allowing people to side load books onto their device means that pirates can load free books on their nook and use the nook app to read a book B&N had no profit on(im not saying everyone is a pirate but this gives the people who are the freedom to do so) so from a business stand point that would be a bad idea
now i do understand why this would be a requested feature but even if you had kindle books you bought if you could side load them whats stopping you from just buying kindle books and using it on your nook instead of buying B&N books
Trey_Miller said:
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
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I may have missed something, but I did go and re-read Alitmax98's reply to you, and didn't see anything mentioning your grasp of the English language. I believe he was referring to the content of your letter, not the grammar or formatting. That would be petty. On a related note, I didn't see anything grammatically wrong with his which would warrant your criticism either.
You seem overly sensitive. It's always nice when a company does what they say, but your letter does come across as if your Nook is an unusable paperweight with the potential to harm children. It's really not that bad.
I suggest you take a deep breath, download a nice book, and relax. If you really want to take someone to task, go buy a Samsung Moment from Sprint...then your rage will be justified.
Hexapus, *chuckle* I appreciate your response. I fully admit that my email was rather prickly and hostile, hell I admit it in the first post. As to the english language, I purposefully 'misunderstood' it, as I have a low threshold for people who claim that an email is worse than some pieces of sellable "fiction" (Twilight, anyone?). The fact of the matter is, everyone and their neighbor is blowing words of adoration up B&N's collective arse for the reader, and anyone who complains is told to either suck it up or shove off. The entire purpose for the email was to get them to know that there was at least one voice out there that was saying, "Okay, I see what you have, but you promised all this other stuff, too. So what the hell is up?"
Is it unusable? To some extent, yes. I'm not talking about how it won't do my paperwork, feed me, and tuck me in (I suppose it *could* do all those, but whoever created the apk would have to be shot), I'm talking about how, every once in a while, I'd like to have a piece of technology that *doesn't* require me to have to rewrite the system just to make it work up to spec.
Luigi, you bring up a very good point about sideloaded pirated books. Although let me put this to you, if you're concerned that a person is going to sideload a book onto an open device that is easily rooted so that you can run the kindle apk along side the nook apk, not to mention half a dozen other things, and whatever else you might throw on there, your line of logic is just a little, mmm, off kilter.
But hey, whatevs. I'm going radio silent until I get a response either way. If anyone else wants to criticize me for speaking up, that's your perogative. Just as it's my perogative to call you an ignorant greedy arse for not thinking about those people who won't or can't root.
Everyone has a right to their opinion but not everyone is right all the time.
The users that aren't ready to put Nookie on an SD card...need that dumbed down UI.
Even if when they open up an app store and move to honeycomb...they will probably keep the UI crippled.
They aren't telling lies and they made it nice for those of us with the skills to do something more with it. It's really such a rare thing to have happen.
I want the Nook held up as an example of openness that helps fuel creativity and progress.
Does the tab have Honeycomb yet? Gingerbread?
Trey_Miller said:
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Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
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For starter, the NC is an eReader, and it is just functioning fine. Their app is amazing and work as expected.
What you did after rooting it is your problem, not NC. If you complaint that it doesn't work like a true tablet, then I have news for you. It is NOT.
If you need a tablet that function like it is a tablet out of the package, then go get a Xoom.
Trey,
Thanks for your post as it obviously got people thinking. The answers you seek are on the BN developer boards. I think they said June for the app store and software update. I know many non power users on Android and many of them hate it. The reason is, it does not function as well consistently as people expect it to. With the Nook, it does. This is important to many users and worth a wait in theirs and Barnes and Noble's mind. When the update comes, it will make the device smootther and give it more features. The froyo and Gingerbread ports here though wonderful, do not make it more stable. They have good devs, but I am not sure they are as good as the ones here. All this equates to more time for them to get it right. Our nagging will not speed up the process. You did buy a tablet from a company that makes books after all. If you want speedy updates, buy one from a computer company. Only, don't buy an Archos, they are notoriously slow with updates. On a lighter note, BN must have done something right. Look how much the interface of Honeycomb looks like the BN interface.
Dualboot Phiremod/Honeycomb SD on Ebay
Ok, I know this issue has been raised before. But this just isn't right. This person is profiting off the hard work of everyone here on the Nook Color Dev forums. I understand that some people are technically challenged and enjoy the fact that all they have to do is pop in the SDcard with the roms already loaded. But I've made that dualboot img so that any technically challenged person can do it. All you have to do is burn it to a card and you have a dualboot rom.
Not to mention all the devs that actually put work into making these roms how they are. And we do it all so everyone can benefit without being ripped off by said ebay poster.
**sigh**
Sorry for my rants, but even if the poster had even mentioned or give credit where credit is due, I wouldn't be as upset.
Oh and here is a youtube video where the person is explaining on how to use the dualboot menu by J4mm3r. You don't want to boot to "eemc". LOLOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sayrOZfF6gE
Just want to say thanks to the wonderful community here as well.
Thanks,
Racks
One half of me is happy to see that my Honeycomb SDK build was good enough to want to use. The other half of me is pissed off at stupid profiteers using it to make bouku bucks....
Sadly, i knew when i put it out there, i could not stop it from being used this way. And of course, it isn't just my effort being ripped off - it looks like they are using your work as well Racks.
Ah well... i just won't support the poor suckers who get said cards, and cannot figure out why they dont work.
Why dont you guys report the items on ebay. Since he deff does not have a license from google to SELL android os. Google lets you use android for free but have to have a license to sell it.
$50 Yikes! I could see spending maybe $10 or $20 to save the hassle, in fact I paid a local guy $20 off of Craigslist to do the CM7 install for me since I wasn't comfortable doing it myself. But $50?!?!? That's robbery.
You know, there's a whole wider point here about how forums, and the like, disseminate information.
I've had my Nook for all of a week. I'm on my second Android phone so am used to flashing ROM updates. BUT coming to this corner of XDA I hit a brick wall seriously hard.
The problem for this and many other fora is that no-one offically obsoletes and removes information. Some info is good and still current; some never worked and some has now become bad after Nook updates. As a noob I have no easy way of knowing which is which.
I've been following this forum daily but I've mainly been looking to Gingerbread and stock 1.2. I am astounded to discover there is a dual boot option on an SD card with Honeycomb. Where is it? Why didn't I see it? Where are the guides to doing it?
On to the eBay guy; you do get a tested 16Gb card for your money. Good luck to him! If he'd acknowledges software sources - all the eBay 'me toos' out there would have it too easy.
croques said:
You know, there's a whole wider point here about how forums, and the like, disseminate information.
I've had my Nook for all of a week. I'm on my second Android phone so am used to flashing ROM updates. BUT coming to this corner of XDA I hit a brick wall seriously hard.
The problem for this and many other fora is that no-one offically obsoletes and removes information. Some info is good and still current; some never worked and some has now become bad after Nook updates. As a noob I have no easy way of knowing which is which.
I've been following this forum daily but I've mainly been looking to Gingerbread and stock 1.2. I am astounded to discover there is a dual boot option on an SD card with Honeycomb. Where is it? Why didn't I see it? Where are the guides to doing it?
On to the eBay guy; you do get a tested 16Gb card for your money. Good luck to him! If he'd acknowledges software sources - all the eBay 'me toos' out there would have it too easy.
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Well you can find the dualboot SD here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=13092402&postcount=1
And it almost sounds like your condoning his actions? Be that as it may, yes when we put information out there on these forums, people are free to use them as they wish. Just wish people like said poster wouldn't benefit free from other peoples hard work that they put into it. Not to mention the community here that tested these roms and reported bugs and issues so that it would be tweaked to it's best ability to run on our Nooks.
How would anyone feel if they put hours and days or even months into a project so that they can help out a community only to have someone come by, take that project, package it up and make a profit off of it. It just aint right.
Again, I was just writing to vent. Don't take anything I write personal. I feel much better now!
Thanks,
Racks
racks11479 said:
...when we put information out there on these forums, people are free to use them as they wish. Just wish people like said poster wouldn't benefit free from other peoples hard work that they put into it. Not to mention the community here that tested these roms and reported bugs and issues so that it would be tweaked to it's best ability to run on our Nooks.
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I can totally understand where you are coming from; I have a paid app on the market and am sure some people download, get a refund but keep it on their system with Titanium Backup. I get mad too. But sometimes I pirate stuff and feel justified. Human beings are a funny mix - or at least I am.
Would you really want to run a business selling formatted SD cards on eBay or would you prefer doing what you do and contributing to the community? Clearly for you, 'contribution' is an important part of your self-realization. I imagine monetizing everything you touch is not how you wish to live your life or see yourself. There are others who take a different world-view; the eBay guy being one of them.
As for condoning his actions, I think I recognise the world needs enterpreneurs as well as altruists; but I agree I do feel differently when it's me being ripped off
Thanks for the link but in a way it make the case for the eBay guy. The post has been updated and the steps one needs to take from scratch to get an SD card dual booting have become less clear. The words "Phiremod 6.2 and Madcat's Honeycomb Hybrid-RC1" may mean something to those that have been here a while; sadly in this madly hyper-linked world it means little to me yet.
I'm minded of a software Engineering lecturer who once asked 'Why is it that when software is updated the file size always grows". Thread updates via edits on XDA-developers always get larger - is there a good reason why?
croques said:
I can totally understand where you are coming from; I have a paid app on the market and am sure some people download, get a refund but keep it on their system with Titanium Backup. I get mad too. But sometimes I pirate stuff and feel justified. Human beings are a funny mix - or at least I am.
Would you really want to run a business selling formatted SD cards on eBay or would you prefer doing what you do and contributing to the community? Clearly for you, 'contribution' is an important part of your self-realization. I imagine monetizing everything you touch is not how you wish to live your life or see yourself. There are others who take a different world-view; the eBay guy being one of them.
As for condoning his actions, I think I recognise the world needs enterpreneurs as well as altruists; but I agree I do feel differently when it's me being ripped off
Thanks for the link but in a way it make the case for the eBay guy. The post has been updated and the steps one needs to take from scratch to get an SD card dual booting have become less clear. The words "Phiremod 6.2 and Madcat's Honeycomb Hybrid-RC1" may mean something to those that have been here a while; sadly in this madly hyper-linked world it means little to me yet.
I'm minded of a software Engineering lecturer who once asked 'Why is it that when software is updated the file size always grows". Thread updates via edits on XDA-developers always get larger - is there a good reason why?
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Well, firstly just want to say thanks for your understanding of my rants.
And yes you are correct in how the world works, people will be people.
Thread updates gets larger via edits so newcomers can see the progress of the work that has been done. And out there for anyone that wants to understand how it progressed from initial beta phase to current status of the app/software/rom being worked on.
Oh and regarding the software quote, well size of any particular software grows when you add additional modifications, tweaks and functions.
Take my horrible analogy for example:
"You can make scrambled eggs with just two eggs some oil and a pan. Wanna make make that scrambled egg even better? How bout an omelette, now we need previous ingredients, plus, cheese, mushrooms, etc...." you get my drift.
-Racks
racks11479 said:
Dualboot Phiremod/Honeycomb SD on Ebay
Ok, I know this issue has been raised before. But this just isn't right. This person is profiting off the hard work of everyone here on the Nook Color Dev forums. I understand that some people are technically challenged and enjoy the fact that all they have to do is pop in the SDcard with the roms already loaded. But I've made that dualboot img so that any technically challenged person can do it. All you have to do is burn it to a card and you have a dualboot rom.
Not to mention all the devs that actually put work into making these roms how they are. And we do it all so everyone can benefit without being ripped off by said ebay poster.
**sigh**
Sorry for my rants, but even if the poster had even mentioned or give credit where credit is due, I wouldn't be as upset.
Oh and here is a youtube video where the person is explaining on how to use the dualboot menu by J4mm3r. You don't want to boot to "eemc". LOLOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sayrOZfF6gE
Just want to say thanks to the wonderful community here as well.
Thanks,
Racks
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Racks, I'm sorry to hear the profiting from your and other devs work. I personally am not a developer, and would consider myself fairly novice at the inner workings of my NCs, however I have rooted both of mine and bought the second one just to learn, to try the different mods, to try all of the neat things that have been done to this point so that I can learn. Great reason to have threads out there that are older...
I had someone here at the office offer me $ to root their nook and put MN on it, I declined, modded it for them anyway, and now she's happy, I don't have any extra money, but for some reason I feel better about it. Imagine that, and I expressly made it clear that I didn't do anything other than follow directions and take no credit for what they now had.
So, thank you for all of your work, thanks to all of the other devs for their work as well, and to Hades with the guys that try to profit off of other people's hard work! LOL
DB
I think the loser doing this gets away with it by claiming you are not buying Android but rather you are buying the memory card and his "service" - which is a BS way around the rules.
Theres always the guy that profits solely off the service.
Just because we "get it" doesnt mean the average end user does.
"Android will change the way we do things" been saying that since me G1.
Instead of the legal and moral issues (if exist) the seller doesn't mention anywhere what is the class of the sds. The photo from ebay is low quality so I couldn't spot it.
what about this scenario?
A coworker has played with my rooted (bootloader with CM7 on a 16g sd card - stock untouched) and is purchasing one soon. i've told her there might be some issue with rooting 'new' hardware - but I'm not exactly certain about that. she wants to pay me to set hers up the way mine is. she might give me money, or she might buy me a six-pack of fancy beer or who knows.
I've told her that it is all copied work from various folks on the boards - but she'll never know xda-developers much less the individuals who have made all this possible. (can I 'thank' you guys on your threads more than once - adding a thanks for her?)
If I accept any kind of remuneration, am I profiteering from your work?
What if I decide to upgrade to a 32 gig card, and she pays me the price of my 16gig card and I leave the setup on it?
just curious where the line is
kimberlim said:
A coworker has played with my rooted (bootloader with CM7 on a 16g sd card - stock untouched) and is purchasing one soon. i've told her there might be some issue with rooting 'new' hardware - but I'm not exactly certain about that. she wants to pay me to set hers up the way mine is. she might give me money, or she might buy me a six-pack of fancy beer or who knows.
I've told her that it is all copied work from various folks on the boards - but she'll never know xda-developers much less the individuals who have made all this possible. (can I 'thank' you guys on your threads more than once - adding a thanks for her?)
If I accept any kind of remuneration, am I profiteering from your work?
What if I decide to upgrade to a 32 gig card, and she pays me the price of my 16gig card and I leave the setup on it?
just curious where the line is
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There is no line crossed. Your not putting out an ad to get peoples nooks so you can root it for them.
Someone personally asked you to do this for them. And I see nothing wrong with it. Its the ones that mass produce software that isn't theirs for money. That's what irks me.
I say gofor it. Not to mention that you've told your co-worker about
XdA. Not every one is tech savvy. And I already said that I wouldn't be as upset if said poster would have given credit to all the devs that put work in for free so he can make money off burning not just one. But many sdcards to sell on eBay.
To each his own I guess.
Thanks,
Racks
Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk
Aloha...
You developers amaze me with your talents and the products resulting from them.
Shame on the sellers. As mentioned above, I expect that they say they are only charging for the cards and service. Boo! Hiss!
I'm having a tad of trouble with the Phiremod/HC dual boot with menu. Could someone please tell me the correct forum to get help with it? (NC 1.2, 8gb class 4 San disk card)
You are awesome, all of you!
Tana-Lee
61-year-old noob typing from the HC rom
I can see your fustration Racks. If I dedicated so much of my own time to benefit my community then somebody comes in and profits off my hard work I would be pissed.
That being said for us users on xda we do appreciate the time you put in to make our devices that much more awesome. So I say thank you sir, and hopefully more people will come to the xda forums and do their work themselves or at least try.
And it is true that Android is "open sourced" for the most part. However, anything Google requires licensing. This includes Google apps and the Android market. These are closed sourced. Seeing how these sd cards have both Google apps and market preinstalled, I can see Google justified in taking action if they choose to. Even if the consumer is paying for the "device" (sd card) that devices is distributing Google's property. Food for thought.
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
Racks, thanks for the time you and the other devs put into the nook and cm7. I am fairly new to th android world but not to nix so the transition was not as rough for me as for some. I realize there wil always be folks out there who try to obtain other peoples work and profit from it and we, as a community, can only watch. What I propose, however rough around the edges it sounds, is that we, as a community, refer anyone who purchases these warz back to the source for assistance. I do realize that I sound harsh but the only way to prevent others from profiting from your work is to refuse to support the "pirated" software.
The whole AOSP thing has been a thorny issue from day one. As an old guy, I remember programming before monitors when keypunch cards were the norm but, even then, There were folks trying to profit from the hard work of others. Same thing applied then, if you have my work and did not get it from me then when you need support, go to the guy you got it from. Just sayin.....
Sent from my NexusOne using Tapatalk
I just wanted to say how nice it is here in the Nook Color forums. Sometimes I wonder around other forums on xda, and I see so much hostility. I know this place used to be so cool. Before the wave of newbs. He'll, I am one of them. I just got my first android back in Jan. Now I am a full blown flashaholic. What I am getting at is, SORRY from all the newbs, all the stupid questions, and the shear size of the wave. And thanks, because of all the genius here, you caused the wave. Thanks to all of the authors, and cooks here in this forum. I have had very few problems, and when I did, people here were nice enough to help. The development here is awesome. Though the pool is smaller, I would rather have a nook than (insert device here).
Sent from my Optimized Shift using XDA App
I don't have to pay a data plan for the nook. That alone would cool me off. Especially Verizon's new data plan.
We are grandfathered in, just don't upgrade, and buy your phones outright. You will save money in the long run......
Sent from my Optimized Shift using XDA App
I second that - thanks to these forums, the nook color I bought on Saturday is now running CM7, overclocked, and netflix. Unfortunately I'll probably ask for more
I agree, the Nook Color section on XDA seems pleasant. I'm rather new to Android, having only owned my phone for a few months and my Nook for about half of one. I've been hanging out in the Atrix forums since thats what I own phone wise, and half the threads are complainers who hate their phones or dont fully understand the concept of donations asking why more isn't getting done. It gets tiring rather fast.
When I bought my nook, one of the big factors that made me decide on that tablet was seeing how peaceful by comparison the Nook community is.
I agree. Although I can't seem to find a thread "home". I have a rooted evo, have flashed several themes, mods, etc on that for nearly a year now. But I still feel like a newb here because the process is somewhat different. I've treid reading how to dual boot, TRIED to dual boot - nothing happened. Just happy I didn't screw the thing up with all the zip files on my sd card Tried to get netflix working....no go. People are very kind when I ask a question but I don't understand what language they are speaking in. I am used to "download, wipe cache, flash, boot". This adb, emmc, yadda yadda...I don't get yet.
BUT I do have a gorgeous NC that is really fast, very stable, and performs beautifully.
I also appreciate the atmosphere here. I knew nothing about android mods prior to owning my NC and now I've got it screaming fast and playing N64 games. This community has been super helpful though I've rarely sought out advise directly. I'm mostly a lurker. Messing with my nook has given me the confidence to jack around with my Thunderbolt. The TBolt forums are super helpful, but there is certainly a lot more trash talking and whatnot going on there. Thanks to all of you Nook peeps out there for keeping this forum courteous as well as useful.
I'd like to say thanks too. Not trying to be a fan boy or a sycophant kiss-up, but I'm really amazed the amount of Android intelligence the people have on this forum.
I got my nook color for the cheap tablet possibilities and have learned a ton here, appreciating everyone's politeness and knowledge and efforts. I didn't realize how much I visited until I looked at my net filter's stats for this place - I've clicked in around 900 times at XDA!
Jesus I am sorry to say this, but if I read the good book as much as I read xda forums, all my friends would be drinking for free....: p
Sent from my Optimized Shift using XDA App
I started hanging out at xda when I got my HD2 and wanted to do more than run WinMo on it. I've been hanging out in the NC forums since I bought my NC on Christmas Eve. I have learned so much! And done so much on my NC that never would have happened without xda. My friends are amazed when I tell/show them what it does. They think I'm a genius. I tell them I'm not smart, but there are a lot of smart people at xda who are willing to share their genius with the rest of us. Thanks to everyone who makes this possible.
Rooted NC running CM7 + my rooted/sd Android HD2 phone makes for a great overall Android experience!
And I tell people that if this 52 year old grandma can do it - anyone can!
Just an observation, not bagging on anyone, but literally 90%+ of the posts in their General section and General Jailbreaking sections were "This doesn't work," "Help Me with this," "This is broken," "What am I doing wrong?" etc. There were maybe two to three threads per page out of around 30 that were devs or users posting some tidbit or program or work-around.
Again, this is not only in the mods section, but also in plain old general iOS discussion. Kind of funny that the thing that "just works" doesn't really seem to. I know a big part of the limited reporting of iOS issues is that sites like CNET and such pander so heavily to anything Apple that it would never cross their mind to speak up about unsavory experiences, but seemed pretty interesting how many issues people really run into with iOS.
I also noted that it has to suck having so much difficulty doing things like creating full backup images of the phone or even just backing up all the data for easy restoration. When someone asked about where text messages are stored by the system what seemed to be experienced users were telling him to check Google for where individual assets were located and that it can be pretty difficult to track them down in iOS.
Just one man's musings.
Happens here all the time, we just have better mods.
Sent from my coffee pot.
I actually thought that iTunes (ugh) made a complete back up of the system on an iThing (at least it was an option)
Also, AFAIK Their big time devs focus mainly on jailbreak/unlock scenarios and then there are the Cydia devs....
I could be completely wrong about all of this as I would rather be hung upside down and stung by a thousand wasps before owning one of those.....devices.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
MissionImprobable said:
I also noted that it has to suck having so much difficulty doing things like creating full backup images of the phone or even just backing up all the data for easy restoration. When someone asked about where text messages are stored by the system what seemed to be experienced users were telling him to check Google for where individual assets were located and that it can be pretty difficult to track them down in iOS.
Just one man's musings.
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No need to have backup images since iTunes backs up everything like contacts, SMS, apps + data and so on. If an iPhone fails it's easy to just hit "Restore" in iTunes and it'll reinstall the OS and then restore the backup so it's exactly like it was before you restored.
The shocking thing though is that very few people actually know about the restore button in iTunes. I've gotten a lot of questions from friends with iPhone's about these things.
- "OMG! My iPhone is doing this and that, i have to send it to Apple for repairs".
No you don't, and i then proceed with opening iTunes, connect the phone and hit restore. "Wow! What did you do?!". Kill me now.
I've also gotten soft bricked iPhone's in. Not as easy as just pressing a button in iTunes, but it only takes 10 minutes and it's up and running again.
Conclusion: iPhone people just aren't that technical. The same applies to most Android users, but with Android we do actually have some controll over things. If something seems wrong we can easily make a dump (stop laughing) and actually understand what's causing this/these problem(s).
LordManhattan said:
No need to have backup images since iTunes backs up everything like contacts, SMS, apps + data and so on. If an iPhone fails it's easy to just hit "Restore" in iTunes and it'll reinstall the OS and then restore the backup so it's exactly like it was before you restored.
The shocking thing though is that very few people actually know about the restore button in iTunes. I've gotten a lot of questions from friends with iPhone's about these things.
- "OMG! My iPhone is doing this and that, i have to send it to Apple for repairs".
No you don't, and i then proceed with opening iTunes, connect the phone and hit restore. "Wow! What did you do?!". Kill me now.
I've also gotten soft bricked iPhone's in. Not as easy as just pressing a button in iTunes, but it only takes 10 minutes and it's up and running again.
Conclusion: iPhone people just aren't that technical. The same applies to most Android users, but with Android we do actually have some controll over things. If something seems wrong we can easily make a dump (stop laughing) and actually understand what's causing this/these problem(s).
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So, what your saying is that I was only partially wrong?
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
I'm not sure what you are, but you're not wrong
I think the deal with the backups was that certain issues came up if you only wanted to restore information to the phone vs resetting everything back like you would with a full Nandroid. It just seemed like every user found a new way to make things difficult despite half a page of stickies giving out about every seemingly-likely scenario. Half of the threads were people having major, major issues post-jailbreaking.
I was also a bit perturbed when I read their "Apple vs Android" thread. I understand that there are closed-minded people in the world but I swear most of them were on that forum and the arguments were just idiocy. One guy liked iOS better because all his apps are on his home screen, even if he has to go through screen after screen to find what he's looking for because they are in no particular order. He dumped on Android for having an alphabetized app drawer, saying it just didn't make sense to him.
My fault for even going on there, but it made me not want to live on this planet anymore =p
People who use iOS are stupider than those who use android.... FACT!
MissionImprobable said:
I think the deal with the backups was that certain issues came up if you only wanted to restore information to the phone vs resetting everything back like you would with a full Nandroid. It just seemed like every user found a new way to make things difficult despite half a page of stickies giving out about every seemingly-likely scenario. Half of the threads were people having major, major issues post-jailbreaking.
I was also a bit perturbed when I read their "Apple vs Android" thread. I understand that there are closed-minded people in the world but I swear most of them were on that forum and the arguments were just idiocy. One guy liked iOS better because all his apps are on his home screen, even if he has to go through screen after screen to find what he's looking for because they are in no particular order. He dumped on Android for having an alphabetized app drawer, saying it just didn't make sense to him.
My fault for even going on there, but it made me not want to live on this planet anymore =p
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AshtonTS said:
People who use iOS are stupider than those who use android.... FACT!
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So it's exactly like every other forum, including XDA
AshtonTS said:
People who use iOS are stupider than those who use android.... FACT!
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And on that note, I think we've all had enough of the iThread. Please continue iOS related discussions on the xda iPhone specific site.
Thread closed.