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Hello, my name is Benjamin, currently a undergraduate student that has gotten very interested in electronics the past couple of months. 21 years of age.
I don't have excessive amounts of money to buy nice toys with or to experiment with, but I was hoping that I could gather wealth and buy an unlocked smart-phone, cheap.
I don't have extensive experience, but I really want to learn from this awesome community. I have been skimming threads and reading, researching and, finally I decided to stop lurking and come out in the clear and introduce myself. I admire the hard work of the seniors, veterans, juniors, semi-pros and other awesome people that think around problems on this board. Thank you already.
I have started hobby-programing python and perl, I have an unreasonable fear of Java, but will hopefully be able to start playing with it if I eventually do get that smart-phone.
So my problem right now is that I don't have a fun little device to play with, could anyone recommend a device that is:
Not crazy expensive
Will be able to connect to Wi-fi network
Will be able to run GV to be used as a VOIP phone
Unlocked and ready to be changed
Easy to access and play around with
Simply, I don't necessarily need it to keep a constant connectivity, just a small computer to toy with.
There are many approaches to the smart-phone idea right now, and your board has been very helpful, I just need a last nudge.
Sorry for the lengthy post, just wanted to introduce myself, and not be lurking anymore. I will try to keep annoying questions to a minimum.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
<3
cheap smartphone(thats actually worth somthing) translates to hd2 on xda ... they go from $200-220 on ebay , good cond . anything lesser of a price ull only get 600mhz , non-cortex phones(garbage) it has wp7 android ubuntu one day maybe meego for it
Greetings all, hope the weekend is going smashing for everyone. As we all know, B&N has been very... lax (obvious) in their promises to update the NC with more user-friendly capabilities. For lack of a better phrase, I've had enough. Today, 2-26-11, I sent B&N a rather abrasive email in the hopes to start some form of open discussion, express my opinion, and inform them that they've got some 'splainin' to do.
Below is the email I sent, although I have edited my name and phone number that I included, for security purposes. As a note, if the email I receive in return uses the phrase "we are working on it as fast as we can," "please be patient," or some other pandering jargon, I do plan to resend this every Saturday until I either receive a response that has some weight behind it, or receive a Cease and Desist writ from them.
Why? For the simple fact that I want them to keep their promise and provide us, the user, with the better experience that we are requesting.
I will continue to update this thread with any following information that comes my way.
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Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
Saved for whatever happens later.
Wow... honestly i think that letter is the worst thing ive read. Honestly, i dont care that they havent updated it. Its rather a blessing how unlocked they left the device. Fact of the matter is that the Nook is a eReader, a highly over powered eReader, that they built and developed ontop of the android system for the ease of use and not having to build a entire custom OS.
Honestly the nook color is the best 250 ive spent in a long time. If i wanted a "tablet" i would have bought a gtab or galaxy. Its pretty common practice for companies nowadays to delay updating software. Honestly why update software when 1: it works.. pretty well too 2: technology is moving faster then software. why update a outdated device?
Its up to you and me and the android developers to keep old devices updated with new and fun software. Thats why so many developers do what they do without making a income off it while spending hours and hours on it. In the end, Barnes and Noble is a business that needs money and updating the nook is not going to bring in the big bucks, if any at all.
Sent from one of those missing Droids or Nook Color on HoneyComb
Your letter.
I assume in part you posted this here because you want feedback.
First, I am in no way affiliated with B&N. I am a user just like you.
I am extremely happy with the Nook.
I like it precisely because they made left it (probably unintentionaly) booting first to the SD.
This in turn has allowed the devs wide open to make bootable images that can be written to the sd.
I believe the company made some forward looking statements that said they wanted to do more with the device. So far in three months, they have released 3 builds. That's actually remarkable when you consider that unlike the developers here, they have to release rock solid well tested stable builds.
Nookie Froyo is really nice. No doubt CM7 and Honeycomb will soon be also...but in the end they both have more problems than an average user could reasonably accept.
Given that their system is so remarkably open, it is my opinion that there is really no better tablet in the ballpark of it on the price.
As a computer professional, I actualy recommended to my friends on facebook, thst they send B&N execs valentines heart candies expressing unending love.
At the end of the day, in my book, they need not hurry because they have given us the best of both worlds.
Take away the boot order....and I never would have bought it at all.
Meenwhile, at apple, they are taking the walled garden to a whole new level....which can only push up prices 30%....
You'll probably get the standard "Thank you for your email, we're working as has as we can email." Even if they were going to send a real email back, what are they going to respond to? Give specific examples of what your issues you have. "bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet"", doesn't really mean anything.
Why does it matter how their UI is when you can put whatever UI on the thing when its rooted.
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
madfatter said:
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
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Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
I have to agree with others here.. why do you care, I see you have rooted you Nook Color. Do you prefer (or are waiting on) that B&N deliver something better that what you can have? Get real,... is you rooted NC not enough? B&N does books, and quite well I might add, they don't do tablets. Although they do seem to have out done everyone else.
Product F(RED) said:
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
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*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
Trey_Miller said:
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
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they have a UI built for putting shortcuts to your books and magazines on your homescreens so you have easy access to your favorite books or favorite magazine, their reader UI is simple and easy to use and their music player although isnt the best music player out there it gets the job done. the average user wouldnt need any more than that and imo they did a pretty good job at turning android 2.1 into an ereader OS
Trey_Miller said:
Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
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i agree with you in that aspect that they should keep their word but i also disagree with the fact they they should update it to froyo or add anything to the user experience
non techies dont need these features in an ereader if its anything they(meaning B&N) should just fix bugs in their system
if they update it to froyo they will be requested to include flash 10.1 and all other goodies froyo includes and that can actually degrade the user experience more than enhance it
flash although necessary for a full web browsing experience it isnt required for a good one
flash kills battery faster than anything else even on wifi(steve jobs got this one right) and it can slow down your device big time(although it might not happen it still is a possibility)
if you want to request a feature for the average user you should request a youtube app or something, non techies will love youtube capabilities on their ereader and the youtube app will not degrade the user experience one bit
and i apologize for my grammar but i really dont care about grammar because this is the internet and on the internet grammar doesnt matter
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
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again to people who dont root, its an ereader NOT a tablet
compare the NC to the Nook or the kindle feature to feature and i can guarantee you that the nook color has the most features for the tech
it has alot of unnessary features for an ereader but it has them so it can be the best in its category(ereader)
if you look at some reviews of this device you will notice that they all say that this device is a great contender to an actual tablet
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't?
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The fact that I'm not a mind-reader. Also, the way you worded your original post implies that you haven't. You said you're not looking for a tablet, but rather a single-purpose device. But that's not the point. If you're not happy with it, sell it. Most people are. We like that it's open and can be turned into a cheap multi-purpose tablet. There's a fine line between showing dissatisfaction and insult. Typing up a grammatically correct email that insults the developers is not the way to go about it. I hope you realize that they still have your money, whether or not you decide to sell it. So you might as well make use of it.
Trey_Miller said:
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
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again i also agree that they should update their ui but not to really add features but to fix glitches and bugs(maybe add a youtube app but im running honeycomb so this doesnt affect me to much due to me already having youtube capabilities) and about the load your own books point
if they allowed a user to do that they will lose money
now i dont know if they are selling the nook at a negative or at a positive income but i do know that their intention is to sell B&N books to users using the nook color, and allowing people to side load books onto their device means that pirates can load free books on their nook and use the nook app to read a book B&N had no profit on(im not saying everyone is a pirate but this gives the people who are the freedom to do so) so from a business stand point that would be a bad idea
now i do understand why this would be a requested feature but even if you had kindle books you bought if you could side load them whats stopping you from just buying kindle books and using it on your nook instead of buying B&N books
Trey_Miller said:
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
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I may have missed something, but I did go and re-read Alitmax98's reply to you, and didn't see anything mentioning your grasp of the English language. I believe he was referring to the content of your letter, not the grammar or formatting. That would be petty. On a related note, I didn't see anything grammatically wrong with his which would warrant your criticism either.
You seem overly sensitive. It's always nice when a company does what they say, but your letter does come across as if your Nook is an unusable paperweight with the potential to harm children. It's really not that bad.
I suggest you take a deep breath, download a nice book, and relax. If you really want to take someone to task, go buy a Samsung Moment from Sprint...then your rage will be justified.
Hexapus, *chuckle* I appreciate your response. I fully admit that my email was rather prickly and hostile, hell I admit it in the first post. As to the english language, I purposefully 'misunderstood' it, as I have a low threshold for people who claim that an email is worse than some pieces of sellable "fiction" (Twilight, anyone?). The fact of the matter is, everyone and their neighbor is blowing words of adoration up B&N's collective arse for the reader, and anyone who complains is told to either suck it up or shove off. The entire purpose for the email was to get them to know that there was at least one voice out there that was saying, "Okay, I see what you have, but you promised all this other stuff, too. So what the hell is up?"
Is it unusable? To some extent, yes. I'm not talking about how it won't do my paperwork, feed me, and tuck me in (I suppose it *could* do all those, but whoever created the apk would have to be shot), I'm talking about how, every once in a while, I'd like to have a piece of technology that *doesn't* require me to have to rewrite the system just to make it work up to spec.
Luigi, you bring up a very good point about sideloaded pirated books. Although let me put this to you, if you're concerned that a person is going to sideload a book onto an open device that is easily rooted so that you can run the kindle apk along side the nook apk, not to mention half a dozen other things, and whatever else you might throw on there, your line of logic is just a little, mmm, off kilter.
But hey, whatevs. I'm going radio silent until I get a response either way. If anyone else wants to criticize me for speaking up, that's your perogative. Just as it's my perogative to call you an ignorant greedy arse for not thinking about those people who won't or can't root.
Everyone has a right to their opinion but not everyone is right all the time.
The users that aren't ready to put Nookie on an SD card...need that dumbed down UI.
Even if when they open up an app store and move to honeycomb...they will probably keep the UI crippled.
They aren't telling lies and they made it nice for those of us with the skills to do something more with it. It's really such a rare thing to have happen.
I want the Nook held up as an example of openness that helps fuel creativity and progress.
Does the tab have Honeycomb yet? Gingerbread?
Trey_Miller said:
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Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For starter, the NC is an eReader, and it is just functioning fine. Their app is amazing and work as expected.
What you did after rooting it is your problem, not NC. If you complaint that it doesn't work like a true tablet, then I have news for you. It is NOT.
If you need a tablet that function like it is a tablet out of the package, then go get a Xoom.
Trey,
Thanks for your post as it obviously got people thinking. The answers you seek are on the BN developer boards. I think they said June for the app store and software update. I know many non power users on Android and many of them hate it. The reason is, it does not function as well consistently as people expect it to. With the Nook, it does. This is important to many users and worth a wait in theirs and Barnes and Noble's mind. When the update comes, it will make the device smootther and give it more features. The froyo and Gingerbread ports here though wonderful, do not make it more stable. They have good devs, but I am not sure they are as good as the ones here. All this equates to more time for them to get it right. Our nagging will not speed up the process. You did buy a tablet from a company that makes books after all. If you want speedy updates, buy one from a computer company. Only, don't buy an Archos, they are notoriously slow with updates. On a lighter note, BN must have done something right. Look how much the interface of Honeycomb looks like the BN interface.
Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrpS4PTSBKg
Obviously a pair of bozo's who are trying to advance a specific agenda- maybe Kindle or Ipad, I don't know.
But it seem pretty obvious that they don't know what they are talking about.
Fortunately most of the press about the Nook Color and everything concerning rooting/ROMming NCs is better informed.
Go ahead and click on the link to drive up their stats or just ignore them and let them fade into insignificance.
rogerdugans said:
Obviously a pair of bozo's who are trying to advance a specific agenda- maybe Kindle or Ipad, I don't know.
But it seem pretty obvious that they don't know what they are talking about.
Fortunately most of the press about the Nook Color and everything concerning rooting/ROMming NCs is better informed.
Go ahead and click on the link to drive up their stats or just ignore them and let them fade into insignificance.
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I almost clicked on the link out of curiosity until I read the last part of your post. Skipped and moving on to other threads.
Those guys are retarded. Have they not seen the videos of it running circles around the GalaxyTab?
We can only hope this is a poor attempt at April's fool. Otherwise /facepalm
These two are just a couple of ass-clowns that are long on bluster and rather short on specifics.
The don't refer to any benchmarks and don't have any illustrations to support their ambiguous contentions.
They claim, in the video, that the Xoom and the Galaxy tabs "blow the nook out of the water.... blah...blah..blah..." yet give no specific benchmark evidence. They say that the NC is underpowered, again without any supporting evidence. They also neglect to mention the enormous price differential.
They make no mention of the lack of camera, microphone, or 3G. These are legitimate shortcomings for those want these features. If they had talked about that, they would have had something. Or if they had talked about the audio sync issue when playing videos, again, we'd have something to talk about.
No, the two whiney little biatches in this video are just unskilled hacks that have no idea how to review a product. They are not Consumer Reports type material. Heck, their product-review-fu is so weak that they're not even up the the lowly hack level of Gizmodo.
Watch the video for the folly of it, but don't take their ill-supported opinions too seriously...
my favorite part of their talk, and granted i got bored within the first 30 seconds, was how with their own verbage showed how uninformed and baseless their claims are. When they said, well you can jailbreak it I started laughing and knew these two jamokes only had iphones and didnt have a clue as to android.
1. Jailbreak - what you do to an iphone/ipad
2. SPL unlocker - what you do to a old school windows mobile phone
3. Unlock/Jailbreak - what you can do to WP7
4. Root - what you do to an android device
verbage is very important it shows your knowledge of the subject area that you are trying to show your expertise in.
hmmm,
I stopped at about the half of the video, because it simply didnt interest me what they were saying.
I had a NC till about 2 weeks ago, had it for about one month. I tried out nearly every Rom and stuff, but i didnt really get happy with it.
I wouldnt say it totally sucks, but I rather have something that is actually working.
I had problems with the sensivity of the screen, I sold it and got a SGT for 80€ more.
A lot better, a lot....
Maybe as a tablet bundled with a good android smartphone, with tethered internet its okay, but as a standalone device as I was intending to use it, it sucked.
But everyone can decide what they buy, I wasnt happy with the NC, therefore I like to hear it even more, that you all are...
oh lol, the "I's"
This is gonna be a book post, so grab a drink, sit down & READ THE WHOLE THING!
Okay, I was a happily retired moderator with little time for babysitting & hand holding, but after nearly two decades of being involved with mobile development from Palm to the device & OS that really started this (Blue Angel PPC2002/PPC2003/PPC2003SE) I will be damned if I am going to let ANYONE ruin the major development repository for what is arguably the best device HTC has made to date. Yes, it was also the worst marketed & whomever handled the marketing plan for the Holiday Series should be selling used cars (Not that there's anything wrong with that, they were just obviously out of their league with the Vivid), however I digress.
I cook roms, I tweak things & talk & have help fix issues for more chef's than I can count. I don't do public releases & I stopped doing custom builds for Senior Members a long time ago. I am here purely for the advancement of mobile development, to learn & to help those that truly take the time to learn.
First things first, this is a development thread. If you are not a developer (I'm not, not really) you must realize that we are working with Alpha's, Beta's & sometime code & data from completely different device manufacturers. This means that there is a certain amount of inherent risk envolved, ALWAYS. This is evidenced & acknowledged by every single person that DECIDED to ignore the warnings issued by HTC as well as the developers here & agreed to the terms when they unlocked their device. "Unlocking your device is DANGEROUS & may VOID your warranty."
I own several devices, as do the former Dev's of this sub-forum. The reason we all are, or were, here is because we all agreed that despite HTC's fumble with the device, it is a fresh design from the rubberized slabs & plastic toys we've seen lately & the device is truly a powerhouse when configured correctly. None of us have to develop, not for the public, and for those that do, I can tell you it's not for the money nor the fame. If it was for fame the folks that left wouldn't be working from blog space & small sites. Sure, there are always glory hounds, but the Developers in Vivid are about the pursuit of perfection, nothing more. Roms are not made by a single person, many have a hand in adding or modifying portions of a rom. This means that when you slam or disrespect a chef or rom, you are telling six or more people that you do not appreciate their work. There will always be difference of opinion, but when that occurs, I expect you to handle it like a man (or woman) & use the Personal Message system this site offers. Even in those cases, I demand no less than respect & civility when communicating & you all agreed to that when you registered here at XDA. Failure to do so CAN & WILL BE GROUNDS FOR A BAN OF APPROPRIATE LENGTH.
Now, I am not a new Mod & XDA has seen fit to call me back to active duty as a Global Moderator, not a forum moderator, & that alone should tell you how frelled the vivid section has become. I am not here to power trip, don't want to ban anyone & hate cleaning useless posts from threads. But I have agreed to do just that until we can all become a happy family
I am working on getting all the dev's back here that left as well as getting some support from some of the more populated forum threads. This will be more & more important as fragmentation goes away & Android becomes more unified. ICS is a step in that direction, Android 5.0 will almost be there completely.
You may not know it yet, but HTC knows they built a great device in the Holiday line & we have already seen ICS release roms for the US AT&T variant. They went & integrated beats & discussion is taking place about a possible Sense 4.0 version for the Holiday. Not a kanged version, but a true to goodness OEM complete with source code & all. While most other devices are still working with leaked versions & test betas, we have an honest to goodness Release version of ICS with some already even getting OTA updates as well. The Vivid is one of a handful of devices that can more than adequately run the same software versions as the newly unveiled One Series, only the Vivid doesn't look like a Sensation mated with a Flyer. I know most of the developers that left, some more than others & I am working on bringing them back to the XDA table. You see, when a developer leaves we get fragmentation. We also usually lose a lot of work from other rom team members, themers, coders, tweakers, hackers, kernel builders, etc...
It would be rather simple for a good Sensation developer to get us a great recovery, provide us with pointers on things they have found with getting ICS to run smoothly as they have been working with api 15 for longer than most Vivid dev's. Unfortunately, they see the Vivid forum as the red headed bastard stepchild of XDA & right now we are. Winter is over & never before have I seen so many developers fky away like a flock heading back north. They all left or are on the fence about leaving. That says something. It's not one high maintenance chef whining & leaving. It is a whole group of Dev's & the supporting members from all over the world leaving. That tells me something is broken, seriously broken & that you as Vivid forum participants have failed the developers & the community. We are broken & need to fix ourselves & learn to police ourselves to become whole again. Do you like stock roms? are you 100% satisfied with whomevers rom you are using? I hope the answer is yes, because unless we pull together & make changes you are gonna be stuck with what you have. Sure, more cooks will emerge. But every rom team member is exceptional at certain things & without them future roms will be lacking in certain areas.
At any rate I digress. Many of you know me. I am honest & fair. I am here, & XDA agreed, as a Hail Mary, to properly support the forum & to try a save the Vivid section from failing. The number one rule here from now on is: Be courteous, respectful & honorable; and if you can't do that....I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance & furious anger those who would attempt to poison our developers & destroy my forum.
THIS IS YOUR WARNING: I am an American, so Baseball is my countries pastime, right? Just like baseball I am immediately instituting a three strikes policy. Each strike will incur penalty on a progressive scale ending with me petitioning to permanently ban you if needed. And be advise that if you post useless or negative to development threads, expect them to be deleted. Just be smart & always take a minute to think things thru before posting & doing irreparable damage. Words are like currency, you can always save them & they'll be there later if needed, but let them burn a hole in your pocket & spend them to soon...You're broke & there's no getting them back.
Now I am stickying this thread & will be leaving it open for a short while. I am doing this to give you a chance to kindly ask the dev's that left to come back & where appropriate make amends or apologize for any personal attacks that were made publicly. If you wrote it where everyone could read it, you should have the fortitude to make it right publicly. If not, then I again refer you to the Personal Message utility provided to you by XDA.
Nicely written.
+1 on bringing back the Devs
Please come back This forum wouldn't be anywhere near as inventive and informative if we didn't have our devs.
Excellent post as well
Im glad to see you stepping in and trying to help the other mods get a handle on things.
I love our phone just like most of the other users here, and have been dissapointed with the state of our forum for the last few weeks. I know the dev who left are still interested in our device as they took their roms elsewhere. Maybe with these current event they will consider coming back. We can only hope, XDA has been a great repository of roms and the help we might need with them. Lets not fragment our resources anymore then it already is.
All I can say is WOW that was greatly written!!
You know what really sucks I have been a member for what i consider to be a long time, I have flashed 1000s of rom's on I don't how many phones and read probably millions of posts! This site is my addiction I read it every day. And over the last couple of months it has just gotten horrible, ridiculous and childish on both sides the noobs and the Dev's! Now DONT GET ME WRONG!! I love and admire everyone who develops, cooks and contributes to the forum. I admit I could never deal with all crap that some noobs and some not so noobs! It is not only this forum it seems to be wide spread even down to the scamming going on at the market place!!! It has honestly made me not want to come to XDA which really sucks.I have all ways looked at XDA as one of the best community's/families i have ever worked with. Just think about how many country's, languages,class,s of life white collar,blue collar and every where in between!!! Just like any family/community you have problems and you find way's to work through the hard times and it makes you stronger so I just plead to all the Developers to try to work whit us. Even if you just post your work and then just have a question and answer sec. and let the community answer the questions. Im just saying there has to be a solution!!
Okay I'm done Rambling!! Thank You to the Mods to for trying to hold it all together!! OK now i'm done!
Wow, it's good to hear something positive around here. You might this sections savoir.
WOW! Great post, thank you very much!
I think we ALL want to run the latest and greatest Android version on the best possible ROM ever on our beloved Holiday. Most are anxious about it and, at the same time, do not want to brick their expensive phones. This being said, this shouldn't be a motivation for ANYONE to bash on the developers.
Like a lot of people, I bought my HTC Raider knowing that, at that time, the development wasn't too far. I was glad to see dev's coming in the Raider/Vivid/Holiday/Velocity family. I was friggin' happy when I saw the first ROM available for my phone! I also flashed at my own risk, knowing I was maybe scarifying my $600 CAD phone.
I, as a relatively new comer, learned from it: do not ask questions that you can easily find answers for by searching the forum. While this is not the (only) reason why so many devs have left, I would like to apologize for my few n00b questions that I may have asked previously. I learned from it and will now properly search before asking.
PLEASE, let's put these few problems aside and let's be a big nice community once again!
I hope we'll see devs back here once again!
This is my first HTC since buying my HTC Dream back in the infancy of android and I was saddened to see how things have turned on this board.
For every Samsung and LG device I have owned there has always been a thriving community of people who have an understanding and work together. However none have ever had the same feeling when I owned an HTC and was part of the community that made the Dream(G1) what it is, an icon. I so wish to be apart of something like that again with this, arguably the best HTC device, as GSLEON3 put it and would love to make it the next big thing.
I understand if the Devs don't come back but I certainly hope they do. There is a lot of work for us to get done and we really need all the amazing talented individuals we can get.
I agree and its getting old visting 20 sites
Xda should be a place where devs can release there work and the community can help each other out not bark at the devs and chase them out, a place where everyone can contribute in one way or another
come at me bro said:
I agree and its getting old visting 20 sites
Xda should be a place where devs can release there work and the community can help each other out not bark at the devs and chase them out, a place where everyone can contribute in one way or another
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I think That that should become our mission statement "a place where everyone can AND SHOULD contribute in one way or another"
This is nice,
well said GSLEON3, i'm happy to see this.
i've been around xda for a while and had my share of phones and not a single one wasn't modified in a way shape or form from xda so when i picked up a vivid 2 weeks ago, it was my first choice but i'm stuck with at&t for now and besides the inspire 4g it's the only other decent phone that fits my needs and wants and regardless of how heavy it is, it's worth it. I was so disappointed and sad, mainly so sad when i saw what was happening, and by tuesday night i was like this isn't gona work for me, i'm gona be stuck with the stock gb rom or stock ics which i can't stand, i just wanted a fully functioning runnymed port but i was disappointed that the bootloader can only be unlocked through htcdev which then voids my warranty while i didn't have that issue with all the previous phones so i never hesitated to root, flash recovery and the roms of my choice. titanium and nandroid backups were like my best non human friends lol. when all this started happening and pretty much everyone was gone, i was like this isn't gona work, saw a report in the portal for a sense port to the nexus s one for ics and one for gb that had almost everything working, so i figured let me see how much i can buy a nexus s for and found a really good deal so i bought it the next day and put my vivid up for sale, i havent sold it yet, and i've been coming around to see if anything has changed, and now that it has i might reconsider and keep it, sell the nexus s and hopefully things get rolling again and we can all have the vivid the way we want. so sorry for making this even longer than i anticipated but hopefully the devs will see this and do come back, and that we do get help from other devs and new ones, i mean having phones like the hd2, mytouch 4g inspire 4g, sensation, the forums on those are filled, even the nexus s i can't keep or find a rom that i like, there r just so many options left and right so i hope that the vivid will become like that soon and yeah i dunno call me crazy or something but like i said earlier, i would be very happy if bootloader can be unlocked without htcdev that is relockable with no trace and to have a fully working gb rom with sense 3.5 like the runnymed, i couldn't be happier with the phone like that. I know there is the holiraider and it looks pretty good but i just don't know if i'm ready to take the plunge for just 1 potential rom, so hope all goes well and things develop but this has so much potential so i think i'm gona hold on to the vivid for now and see this thing come back to normal and flourish
Thank you for the breath of fresh air of logic that has come back to this forum. Sadly, I have been hesitant to visit this forum because of all the drama that has occurred as of late about the development of a better rom for our devices.
As you said, there is a reason we all purchased this device over others and it's well clear that there needs to be more work done for it by those who have the skills to do so.
Well said, although this may have been posted a little to late.
I hope that the dev here does continue, but it is looking bleak!
thanks
Very nice write up / read, I'm new to XDA and android altogether. I think this a great device and the few ROMS I've flashed had little or no issues. The work the DEV's have put into these is incredible to say the least. I would love to see all this mess cleared and bring the Vivid development back on track to unleash the full potential that it really possesses.
..
Thank you for this post. I've been more of a xda lurker for the longest time (on other phone forums) and I was happy to be getting in on the sort of ground floor of development for the vivid.. I walked away for a month to take care of some life items and I came back hoping to see some big improvements, instead there is just a load of closed dev threads. It's sad to see that few people not acting civil put things where we are today.
I really hope you can help bring some sanity back to this sector and with that sanity maybe some of the devs will be back too.
superb article. thanks for the great post. something needed to be said!i would imagine that with 4,000,000+ users were gonna have trolls, so i hope the trolls migrate to your post
Thank You!
There is yet hope, Also as stated by the OP, We all did agree to treating people with respect. This is a huge community with all levels of users from Devs and folks that build awesome things to others just starting out with their 1st smartphone (Simple rule, think before you post). This device line could become great. Please let's all do what we can to help this along.
Cheers
BR
Excellent post, I appreciate the time you took to write it, I wish reading it were a requirement of joining the XDA site. I've been flashing roms since I had an HTC Touch Diamond. I confess to being a flashaholic and my worst fear is to lose access to XDA and it's excellent developers because of the rude and immature members that I see regularly. So many don't bother to read and feel they are entitled to the work that the devs do for free.
All I can say is this is awesome, nice to see someone taking the time to help the vivid dev section.
I so miss the help and work by Pirateghost and Wild Child, and whom ever else was contributing.
While i left for only 2 weeks to setup another phone to use, i still have my raider ready and free to help debug and test as needed. Please don't allow a few bad apples to ruin it for the rest of us.
And if I may, maybe we as xda members can share in the task of keeping the forum in check.
EX: see an inappropriate post, flag it for a moderator to address it.
As for GSLEON3, thanks for taking the time to address the forum. hats off to you.
I have been on xda since my hero days so its been a few years. Didn't join til too long ago. Made some good pals along the way and learned tons.
So far this forum for me is a breath of fresh air. The phone forums are so full of hate, trolls, attacks, name calling, disrespecting developer's work and the usual douche stuff.
Of course its here too, just no where near as bad yet. Yet. I hope it stays that way because its so much nicer to thank people than report them.
This may be a gay post but some mods fell the same way. Anyway, glad I got the n7 and glad I'm here.
From the Note to Nexus 7
sprintuser1977 said:
I have been on xda since my hero days so its been a few years. Didn't join til too long ago. Made some good pals along the way and learned tons.
So far this forum for me is a breath of fresh air. The phone forums are so full of hate, trolls, attacks, name calling, disrespecting developer's work and the usual douche stuff.
Of course its here too, just no where near as bad yet. Yet. I hope it stays that way because its so much nicer to thank people than report them.
This may be a gay post but some mods fell the same way. Anyway, glad I got the n7 and glad I'm here.
From the Note to Nexus 7
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Gay ?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Saw that coming a mile away...
Yeah this has been awesome, reminds me of the HD2 forums, at least back when nand android became available, the vivid forums are crazy, these ones are nice.
This forum and the AT&T One X forums have been the best. The OG EVO 4G forums were good in the beginning but it got worse and worse over time. Same thing goes for the Epic 4G Touch. I know I'm guilty of some warranted snarky responses from time to time (Search first!) but I never actually attack anybody on a personal level like I've seen in some other subforums. We are all here for the same purpose so why can't we all just get along?
sprintuser1977 said:
I have been on xda since my hero days so its been a few years. Didn't join til too long ago. Made some good pals along the way and learned tons.
So far this forum for me is a breath of fresh air. The phone forums are so full of hate, trolls, attacks, name calling, disrespecting developer's work and the usual douche stuff.
Of course its here too, just no where near as bad yet. Yet. I hope it stays that way because its so much nicer to thank people than report them.
This may be a gay post but some mods fell the same way. Anyway, glad I got the n7 and glad I'm here.
From the Note to Nexus 7
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Hey I remember you from the Evo 4G forums! =D
Just be glad this isn't like the prime forum was in its earlier days..lol. nexus 7 forum is cool. Since I'm unlocked and running custom kernel, I'm more into developement scene now. Never any issues in there. Only everyone working together to put out the best/most stable stuff. NEXUS 7 is an aAzimg little 7in. Tablet. I would've never thought the experience on it would be this good.
Give it time. This forum will degrade just like every single other forum on here.
Not trying to trash XDA, but it just isn't the same community it used to be.
nickmv said:
Give it time. This forum will degrade just like every single other forum on here.
Not trying to trash XDA, but it just isn't the same community it used to be.
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Yep, the more popular a device gets, the more trolling and flaming becomes a problem. It's inevitable.
XDA is legit in general, probably one of the nicest put together forums on the web. The new layout really sets it off.
sprintuser1977 said:
I have been on xda since my hero days so its been a few years. Didn't join til too long ago. Made some good pals along the way and learned tons.
So far this forum for me is a breath of fresh air. The phone forums are so full of hate, trolls, attacks, name calling, disrespecting developer's work and the usual douche stuff.
Of course its here too, just no where near as bad yet. Yet. I hope it stays that way because its so much nicer to thank people than report them.
This may be a gay post but some mods fell the same way. Anyway, glad I got the n7 and glad I'm here.
From the Note to Nexus 7
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uberNoobZA said:
Gay ?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
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LOL. We know you're not gay dude, it's cool. :good:
When your getting the latest updates and everything is flowing as promise there's nothing to ***** about ... besides to Google ...
Its when you go on the older threads where people are angry because they can't get a working ICS build or even a jelly bean .. or too many noobs bricking their devices
It will turn in to that ... after time
The Epic 4G touch forums got real nasty after ICS n the brick montage
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
_MetalHead_ said:
Yep, the more popular a device gets, the more trolling and flaming becomes a problem. It's inevitable.
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Shoulda been here 6 years ago.
It was all fields and everyone used to be on first name terms with each other.
Then the devices came, then they got popular then the neighbourhood went to pot.
>Then the devices came, then they got popular then the neighbourhood went to pot.
Why, when I was your age...
Pining for the golden yesteryear is a popular pasttime, but it's usually distorted by people's selective memory. Reminescing is futile anyway. What matters is how XDA manages the additional influx while still retaining some semblance of its core identity, and not let itself lapsed into another generic techie hang-out.
The dev sub-forum restrictions have been the main instrument in that. But it would be nice to see more care in other areas. The site's UI and layout was never good--check out the classic vs 2010 vs 2013 beta layouts--and now has turned for the worse.
We're not just talking about personal preference for aesthetics, but dirt-basic design concepts like text reflows vs fixed-width. The basic web UI now has orange-on-white. Who thinks up this stuff?
It would also be nice to see more creative solutions to navigate the huge traffic volume and decreasing sig2noise ratio. The most-recent-on-top scheme and the encouragement of long threads effectively bury most valuable info, as informative threads tend to have few inputs, and are pushed off by argumentative or more inane material. I suppose XDA is shackled by its forum software here, but one can hope for better.
Then again, maybe not.
I was a regular over at the SGT7 forums for a few months, didn't see too much name calling and stuff like that.
e.mote said:
>Then the devices came, then they got popular then the neighbourhood went to pot.
Why, when I was your age...
Pining for the golden yesteryear is a popular pasttime, but it's usually distorted by people's selective memory
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Don't take this the wrong way but when the US market opened up the s/n ratio plummeted.
Kids will be kids, wherever, but the US teen speaks a dialect of English and this is a predominantly English forum.
There are many native French & German / Nordic fora although many non native English speakers from Europe speak and type better English than many English teenagers and have better manners.
Sign o the times
Sent from my Nexus 7
hullbay said:
XDA is legit in general, probably one of the nicest put together forums on the web. The new layout really sets it off.
LOL. We know you're not gay dude, it's cool. :good:
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I'm not? Would it matter ?
Yeah the vivid forums make me me cry
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
>Don't take this the wrong way but when the US market opened up the s/n ratio plummeted.
I live in the US, although I'm not a native, so I empathize both sides of the coin.
That said, attributing the deterioration of online communication to any nationality or ethnic group isn't a grounded argument. English is still the lingua franca of the Internet at this point, and the US user population is still the largest group. Failings from them tend to be magnified by their numbers.
I agree that there is a marked decline in social/communicative exchanges online. It's a little sad to see people don't even bother to correct obvious spelling mistakes, let alone correct grammar. Any attempt to better such is derided as grammar nazis.
But it is what it is, and it reflects the population at large, who also exhibited a marked decline in analytic thinking and social discourse. No amount of handwringing or reminescing will change that. And it is an equal-opportunity malaise in that it affects every online population, not just the US population.
It's kind of sad...
It's a bit like saying the Nexus 7 forums only murders 10 innocent children a week so it's not as bad as other forums who murders at least 100 innocent children and their mothers on a weekly basis.
It's unfortunate but unless the moderators are extremely active (and well-staffed) chances are the trolls will ruin it for everyone sooner or later.
Especially now it's the summer and there is nothing pimply-faced 13-year-olds like to do more than to troll forums in between playing the latest shooter on their MicroSony PlayBox, stuffing themselves with greasy pizza and masturbate.
e.mote said:
it is an equal-opportunity malaise in that it affects every online population, not just the US population.
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Amen and pass the ammunition!
Sent from my Nexus 7