Related
The site is up and running, discussion here!
Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.
Looks very good!
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.
Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.
Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James
jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.
Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.
Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner
you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.
I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.
jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
As above - Chl 5 8pm tonight
i doubt this will be usefull or give you the result you hope for.
I doubt they will even know, let alone try, about flashing and the massive advantages this gives. I doubt they will touch on the various 3rd party apps that really make this phone and instead, will focus on a standard "factory fit" which, lets face it, is a bit crap. Will they cover the fact that this phone is an exellent business tool (oh how i miss TV/VGA out ... )
I also doubt they will mention the Iphones failings, its 2.0 software disaster, its "push" (yeerrr right!) email or the fact people are having there entire contacts and calendars being wiped out in front of them or again that they STILL can't change batteries
I see them going for the Iphone.
Who knows, Germans have choosen Diamond as a best phone on the world with iPhone as a 2nd with quite big adventage. Who knows, maybe those people will make some big review and will compare those phones in every aspect.
nutcracker2 said:
Who knows, Germans have choosen Diamond as a best phone on the world with iPhone as a 2nd with quite big adventage. Who knows, maybe those people will make some big review and will compare those phones in every aspect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean "Germans"? Do you mean the entire population voted on it or a selected "Gadget Show" like TV program?
http://www.inside-handy.de/news/12140.html
1500 of german inside-handy.de users choosen Diamond as most desirable phone of the year. I was wrong, not the best, but most desirable
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
nutcracker2 said:
http://www.inside-handy.de/news/12140.html
1500 of german inside-handy.de users choosen Diamond as most desirable phone of the year. I was wrong, not the best, but most desirable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... but the poll was done in 12.06.2008 with the old iPhone and not with 3G!
nokmond said:
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I watch the gadget show because some of it well put together and you can tell the producers/presenters do know what they are talking about even if they do have to dumb it down for a maintream tv audience somewhat.
As regards the flashing issue, I doubt they will go into it in detail but why should they? Most users don't know about it and if you did tell them they probably wouldnt want to be bothered with it anyway. Its a big time sink just for a setting up a mobile, which should really have been done by HTC in the first place.
Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaPS0NLwFQ
Most of the people they ask dont even realise about all the 3rd party apps or different roms,all they seem interested in is the way it looks.
owz206 said:
Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaPS0NLwFQ
Most of the people they ask dont even realise about all the 3rd party apps or different roms,all they seem interested in is the way it looks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link, i hadn't realised before how crappy that show is, are they trying to be Top Gear or something! They're doing camera shots of the pavement that are so quick the phones blurred! And if the presenter emphasised his words anymore he'd explode.
In that video, that kind of test is always going to be about looks, if you even try to use the phone you wont know how because youve only had 5 seconds with it so all they can compare is looks, size, weight etc and go on what the presenters say.
Two things immediately spring to mind on watching the clip - Apple has spent a fortune on promoting the iphone, so that anyone who watches TV will have an idea how it works - if the touch screen from the Diamond had been given similar video tutorials on primetime TV, no doubt a lot of people would find the interface just as user friendly.
The other factor is the Apple effect - people feel that Apple has a brand value akin to Richard Branson's woolly jumpers - all cuddly and vaguely environmental/hippy chic. I prefer to be apart from the crowds, not queueing to buy on the basis of marketing hype.
Well I'm definitely sending my Diamond back. The one they had on the gadget show had a hardware keyboard and a Nokia label. Mine has neither.
ericsson68 said:
Well I'm definitely sending my Diamond back. The one they had on the gadget show had a hardware keyboard and a Nokia label. Mine has neither.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL yeah i know i watched it too..... check out the youtube link for the web tv review (previous posts)
The review was crap anyway, people like the look of the iphone, but thats it.
None of the functionality of the Diamond was really talked about, very poor review. (if you could even call it that !)
nokmond said:
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree the Gadget Show is for people who don not know anything - I watch it over the internet and I find this a useful program indeed. But I do disagree with some of the shows findings on best products...
nubbin said:
Two things immediately spring to mind on watching the clip - Apple has spent a fortune on promoting the iphone, so that anyone who watches TV will have an idea how it works - if the touch screen from the Diamond had been given similar video tutorials on primetime TV, no doubt a lot of people would find the interface just as user friendly.
The other factor is the Apple effect - people feel that Apple has a brand value akin to Richard Branson's woolly jumpers - all cuddly and vaguely environmental/hippy chic. I prefer to be apart from the crowds, not queueing to buy on the basis of marketing hype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"marketing hype" something Apple Computers are very good at G
Of the bat:
-The show looks cheesy as ****, something apple users tend to like!
-The 60 year old host, talking bout technology? Not good! (no harm intended to any 60 year old member in the forum)
And Ill always do this on any thread that contains the words FruityPhone:
FruitPhone SUCKS!!!!
Remeber, second best they are.
the show is usually quite good, but after watching this they did not give the htc a proper review. I mean come on if you put a iphone in front of everyone they know what it is straight away! Seems like the Apple advertising is really sucessful.
I dont mind if our Diamond isnt as big as iphone to be honest.
After all do you want everyone to have the same phone as you! I call it a small prestige club and I am honored to have be in it.
Sergio PC said:
Of the bat:
-The show looks cheesy as ****, something apple users tend to like!
-The 60 year old host, talking bout technology? Not good! (no harm intended to any 60 year old member in the forum)
And Ill always do this on any thread that contains the words FruityPhone:
FruitPhone SUCKS!!!!
Remeber, second best they are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you possibly be any more offensive with your outdated and ageist remark?
He's not even 60.
Idiot.
kidd78 said:
the show is usually quite good, but after watching this they did not give the htc a proper review. ......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you watch the same show as me? I only saw the IPhone versus a Nokia....
I suppose you are right in a sense, they didn't give the HTC a proper review ... as they didnt have one!
I stopped watching the gadget show a few years ago because i get the feeling that they really dont know what they are talking about, the reveiws and tests that they do are completley stupid and of course they are given more money to say good things about certain products.
There was an episode i flicked onto the other month, and they had picked out a bunch of HD TV's an said they were gonna get the best experts in the country to give them a thouogh testing to see which one was the best! So they took them to the tech guys (pc worlds attempt at making ppl think that their getting good advice!) who stood about 2 foot away from the screens an said that none of them were particaully good and then said the most expencive one wa no good because it was a Plasma set and could suffer from screen burn!
In short the show is biased to whoever pays them the most money to give the best review!!!1!!!
Greetings all, hope the weekend is going smashing for everyone. As we all know, B&N has been very... lax (obvious) in their promises to update the NC with more user-friendly capabilities. For lack of a better phrase, I've had enough. Today, 2-26-11, I sent B&N a rather abrasive email in the hopes to start some form of open discussion, express my opinion, and inform them that they've got some 'splainin' to do.
Below is the email I sent, although I have edited my name and phone number that I included, for security purposes. As a note, if the email I receive in return uses the phrase "we are working on it as fast as we can," "please be patient," or some other pandering jargon, I do plan to resend this every Saturday until I either receive a response that has some weight behind it, or receive a Cease and Desist writ from them.
Why? For the simple fact that I want them to keep their promise and provide us, the user, with the better experience that we are requesting.
I will continue to update this thread with any following information that comes my way.
-----
Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
Saved for whatever happens later.
Wow... honestly i think that letter is the worst thing ive read. Honestly, i dont care that they havent updated it. Its rather a blessing how unlocked they left the device. Fact of the matter is that the Nook is a eReader, a highly over powered eReader, that they built and developed ontop of the android system for the ease of use and not having to build a entire custom OS.
Honestly the nook color is the best 250 ive spent in a long time. If i wanted a "tablet" i would have bought a gtab or galaxy. Its pretty common practice for companies nowadays to delay updating software. Honestly why update software when 1: it works.. pretty well too 2: technology is moving faster then software. why update a outdated device?
Its up to you and me and the android developers to keep old devices updated with new and fun software. Thats why so many developers do what they do without making a income off it while spending hours and hours on it. In the end, Barnes and Noble is a business that needs money and updating the nook is not going to bring in the big bucks, if any at all.
Sent from one of those missing Droids or Nook Color on HoneyComb
Your letter.
I assume in part you posted this here because you want feedback.
First, I am in no way affiliated with B&N. I am a user just like you.
I am extremely happy with the Nook.
I like it precisely because they made left it (probably unintentionaly) booting first to the SD.
This in turn has allowed the devs wide open to make bootable images that can be written to the sd.
I believe the company made some forward looking statements that said they wanted to do more with the device. So far in three months, they have released 3 builds. That's actually remarkable when you consider that unlike the developers here, they have to release rock solid well tested stable builds.
Nookie Froyo is really nice. No doubt CM7 and Honeycomb will soon be also...but in the end they both have more problems than an average user could reasonably accept.
Given that their system is so remarkably open, it is my opinion that there is really no better tablet in the ballpark of it on the price.
As a computer professional, I actualy recommended to my friends on facebook, thst they send B&N execs valentines heart candies expressing unending love.
At the end of the day, in my book, they need not hurry because they have given us the best of both worlds.
Take away the boot order....and I never would have bought it at all.
Meenwhile, at apple, they are taking the walled garden to a whole new level....which can only push up prices 30%....
You'll probably get the standard "Thank you for your email, we're working as has as we can email." Even if they were going to send a real email back, what are they going to respond to? Give specific examples of what your issues you have. "bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet"", doesn't really mean anything.
Why does it matter how their UI is when you can put whatever UI on the thing when its rooted.
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
madfatter said:
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
I have to agree with others here.. why do you care, I see you have rooted you Nook Color. Do you prefer (or are waiting on) that B&N deliver something better that what you can have? Get real,... is you rooted NC not enough? B&N does books, and quite well I might add, they don't do tablets. Although they do seem to have out done everyone else.
Product F(RED) said:
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
Trey_Miller said:
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they have a UI built for putting shortcuts to your books and magazines on your homescreens so you have easy access to your favorite books or favorite magazine, their reader UI is simple and easy to use and their music player although isnt the best music player out there it gets the job done. the average user wouldnt need any more than that and imo they did a pretty good job at turning android 2.1 into an ereader OS
Trey_Miller said:
Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree with you in that aspect that they should keep their word but i also disagree with the fact they they should update it to froyo or add anything to the user experience
non techies dont need these features in an ereader if its anything they(meaning B&N) should just fix bugs in their system
if they update it to froyo they will be requested to include flash 10.1 and all other goodies froyo includes and that can actually degrade the user experience more than enhance it
flash although necessary for a full web browsing experience it isnt required for a good one
flash kills battery faster than anything else even on wifi(steve jobs got this one right) and it can slow down your device big time(although it might not happen it still is a possibility)
if you want to request a feature for the average user you should request a youtube app or something, non techies will love youtube capabilities on their ereader and the youtube app will not degrade the user experience one bit
and i apologize for my grammar but i really dont care about grammar because this is the internet and on the internet grammar doesnt matter
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
again to people who dont root, its an ereader NOT a tablet
compare the NC to the Nook or the kindle feature to feature and i can guarantee you that the nook color has the most features for the tech
it has alot of unnessary features for an ereader but it has them so it can be the best in its category(ereader)
if you look at some reviews of this device you will notice that they all say that this device is a great contender to an actual tablet
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that I'm not a mind-reader. Also, the way you worded your original post implies that you haven't. You said you're not looking for a tablet, but rather a single-purpose device. But that's not the point. If you're not happy with it, sell it. Most people are. We like that it's open and can be turned into a cheap multi-purpose tablet. There's a fine line between showing dissatisfaction and insult. Typing up a grammatically correct email that insults the developers is not the way to go about it. I hope you realize that they still have your money, whether or not you decide to sell it. So you might as well make use of it.
Trey_Miller said:
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
again i also agree that they should update their ui but not to really add features but to fix glitches and bugs(maybe add a youtube app but im running honeycomb so this doesnt affect me to much due to me already having youtube capabilities) and about the load your own books point
if they allowed a user to do that they will lose money
now i dont know if they are selling the nook at a negative or at a positive income but i do know that their intention is to sell B&N books to users using the nook color, and allowing people to side load books onto their device means that pirates can load free books on their nook and use the nook app to read a book B&N had no profit on(im not saying everyone is a pirate but this gives the people who are the freedom to do so) so from a business stand point that would be a bad idea
now i do understand why this would be a requested feature but even if you had kindle books you bought if you could side load them whats stopping you from just buying kindle books and using it on your nook instead of buying B&N books
Trey_Miller said:
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may have missed something, but I did go and re-read Alitmax98's reply to you, and didn't see anything mentioning your grasp of the English language. I believe he was referring to the content of your letter, not the grammar or formatting. That would be petty. On a related note, I didn't see anything grammatically wrong with his which would warrant your criticism either.
You seem overly sensitive. It's always nice when a company does what they say, but your letter does come across as if your Nook is an unusable paperweight with the potential to harm children. It's really not that bad.
I suggest you take a deep breath, download a nice book, and relax. If you really want to take someone to task, go buy a Samsung Moment from Sprint...then your rage will be justified.
Hexapus, *chuckle* I appreciate your response. I fully admit that my email was rather prickly and hostile, hell I admit it in the first post. As to the english language, I purposefully 'misunderstood' it, as I have a low threshold for people who claim that an email is worse than some pieces of sellable "fiction" (Twilight, anyone?). The fact of the matter is, everyone and their neighbor is blowing words of adoration up B&N's collective arse for the reader, and anyone who complains is told to either suck it up or shove off. The entire purpose for the email was to get them to know that there was at least one voice out there that was saying, "Okay, I see what you have, but you promised all this other stuff, too. So what the hell is up?"
Is it unusable? To some extent, yes. I'm not talking about how it won't do my paperwork, feed me, and tuck me in (I suppose it *could* do all those, but whoever created the apk would have to be shot), I'm talking about how, every once in a while, I'd like to have a piece of technology that *doesn't* require me to have to rewrite the system just to make it work up to spec.
Luigi, you bring up a very good point about sideloaded pirated books. Although let me put this to you, if you're concerned that a person is going to sideload a book onto an open device that is easily rooted so that you can run the kindle apk along side the nook apk, not to mention half a dozen other things, and whatever else you might throw on there, your line of logic is just a little, mmm, off kilter.
But hey, whatevs. I'm going radio silent until I get a response either way. If anyone else wants to criticize me for speaking up, that's your perogative. Just as it's my perogative to call you an ignorant greedy arse for not thinking about those people who won't or can't root.
Everyone has a right to their opinion but not everyone is right all the time.
The users that aren't ready to put Nookie on an SD card...need that dumbed down UI.
Even if when they open up an app store and move to honeycomb...they will probably keep the UI crippled.
They aren't telling lies and they made it nice for those of us with the skills to do something more with it. It's really such a rare thing to have happen.
I want the Nook held up as an example of openness that helps fuel creativity and progress.
Does the tab have Honeycomb yet? Gingerbread?
Trey_Miller said:
-----
Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For starter, the NC is an eReader, and it is just functioning fine. Their app is amazing and work as expected.
What you did after rooting it is your problem, not NC. If you complaint that it doesn't work like a true tablet, then I have news for you. It is NOT.
If you need a tablet that function like it is a tablet out of the package, then go get a Xoom.
Trey,
Thanks for your post as it obviously got people thinking. The answers you seek are on the BN developer boards. I think they said June for the app store and software update. I know many non power users on Android and many of them hate it. The reason is, it does not function as well consistently as people expect it to. With the Nook, it does. This is important to many users and worth a wait in theirs and Barnes and Noble's mind. When the update comes, it will make the device smootther and give it more features. The froyo and Gingerbread ports here though wonderful, do not make it more stable. They have good devs, but I am not sure they are as good as the ones here. All this equates to more time for them to get it right. Our nagging will not speed up the process. You did buy a tablet from a company that makes books after all. If you want speedy updates, buy one from a computer company. Only, don't buy an Archos, they are notoriously slow with updates. On a lighter note, BN must have done something right. Look how much the interface of Honeycomb looks like the BN interface.
You're not entitled to anything. You obviously don't remember the dumbphone era and I have seen a lot of members act like they take all the cool things Windows, IoS, and Android can do for granted. It's a phone and it can text and call. A few years ago, they introduced the ability to REALLY browse the web with phones instead of that blocky, crappy, ugly built in browsers to dumbphones. Now, you get mad if your phone doesn't load something soon enough or if it takes more than 30 seconds to boot up. Just because it's a smart phone doesn't mean it has to do anything. I can take an LG rumor, call that a smart phone. I can take my HTC Hero, break the screen, pull out the MoBo and say it's a smart phone. It's just that since we have all these neat things our phones can do, we act like it's the standard and that android, iOS, and Wp7 owes us. That's not even close to the case. I spent 2 months with a LG Rumor which is known as a dumbphone and I learned that perhaps we should realize what our phones can do are us advancing as a society as a whole rather than "Your phone loads videos sooner than mine!?!!" *throws phone out the window* It's a peice of technology, wait 10 minutes, there will be a better one right around the corner. We advance far too quickly for this kind of petty, childish, bratty behavior. Basically, grow up before you ruin the phone-modding world as a whole by acting like you are 10.
So... what's new? What changed to make this issue worth debating all over again?
Well said. I think this applies to a lot a lot of things in life and all too often i'm seeing kids with massive entitlement issues around various forums.
Conscript the lot of them into military service so that they can get some perspective and learn what real hardship feels like!
DirkGently1 said:
Well said. I think this applies to a lot a lot of things in life and all too often i'm seeing kids with massive entitlement issues around various forums.
Conscript the lot of them into military service so that they can get some perspective and learn what real hardship feels like!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen brother
-Figured i needed a signature for my phone. This is it......
Wow..thank you
Sent from my T959 using XDA App
I personally can say that the time with the lg rumor showed me how much phones have evolved and it made me appreciate all the stuff my phone can do.
Sent from the unevolved evo.
Entitlement is a disease.
Most of the younger generations suffer from it.
I only put so much worth into my phone because it triples as my personal computer and music player. I'm a minimalist at heart, so I don't own anything else very technological (not including my TV).
I remember when I bought my Palm Pre. iPhone killer. It was amazing. Then the Moto Droid came out and I thought, oh gee, that's sweet. I stuck with the Pre until June, and bought the Nexus S. Thinking I was now at the pinnacle of mobile technology... only to realize two weeks later 249243 newer, better devices are on their way.
I don't feel I'm entitled to anything....
And I think that smartphones are taking away our lives rather than enhancing them. We txt, email, foursquare, take pictures but do the one thing that they were originally intended for to begin with....
COMMUNICATE.
When I get home now - I have to put the phone on a charger and try and forget about it so I can spend quality time with my wife and son rather then farting around with the phone.
avgjoegeek said:
I don't feel I'm entitled to anything....
And I think that smartphones are taking away our lives rather than enhancing them. We txt, email, foursquare, take pictures but do the one thing that they were originally intended for to begin with....
COMMUNICATE.
When I get home now - I have to put the phone on a charger and try and forget about it so I can spend quality time with my wife and son rather then farting around with the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, i'm too busy fart-arsing around with my phone to talk to anybody...
I do agree with the above. If technology is supposed to make it easier to communicate, why are people growing increasingly isolated from each other?
DirkGently1 said:
Well said. I think this applies to a lot a lot of things in life and all too often i'm seeing kids with massive entitlement issues around various forums.
Conscript the lot of them into military service so that they can get some perspective and learn what real hardship feels like!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a nephew that needs to be the very first one to go...lol
He's 23 years old and makes demands on what people do for him.
DirkGently1 said:
Sorry, i'm too busy fart-arsing around with my phone to talk to anybody...
I do agree with the above. If technology is supposed to make it easier to communicate, why are people growing increasingly isolated from each other?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry can you repeat that please?
I was tweeting.......
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
conantroutman said:
Sorry can you repeat that please?
I was tweeting.......
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He mentioned something silly about flatulence that I didn't catch.
The problem is not entitlement per se - it's feeling entitled to the wrong things. We all are entitled to respect from other people. But we aren't entitled to things or money or positions in society.
You know, leading up to my purchase of the Gear VR I watched countless Oculus Rift videos where the user was simply dumbfounded, dismayed and amazed by the complete immersion of the experience. Lots of swearing and laughing. A sense of "no longer being in the real world".
The Gear VR has a better screen than the Oculus Rift and the FOV is just slightly less (96 degrees vs 100 degrees). But to be honest, although it's cool, I am NOT getting that WOW moment where I feel I've been transported to another world. I can see pixels, I can see the binocular effect. Yeah it's cool but for me anyway, not remotely immersive. Perhaps 360 videos would be immersive if they weren't so badly out of focus. I can watch quality HD movies in the Cinema but those are movies on a screen - again not immersive - I'm not IN the action. Games come the closest but Android games tend to be a bit on the cartoonish side. Of the games I've played only Anshar and Darknet give me the sense I'm IN the game, Anshar being the best (I really wish they would release the full game - getting tired of playing one level forever).
So are these people in the Oculus videos just easily impressed? Don't get me wrong, the Gear VR is a fun device and worth the $200, but it just isn't AMAZING for me like all those folks in the videos seem to think the Oculus is. Never once have I felt like laughing or swearing or just being giddy at the experience. It's neat, but for me that's about it.
** Update: Turns out the best most immersive games for the GVR (such as Herobound) require a controller. Since I did not own a bluetooth controller previously I was not aware. Herobound is a very impressive VR game and gives a good sense of immersion. Very promising.
Maybe it's like hypnosis. Some people are easier to hypnotize than others. Maybe with VR it is just easier for some people to feel IN the environment than others? Dunno.
I guess the sad thing about the GVR is that we will never have games that can compete with what a PC with graphics card can spit out. There is an app to allow you to play PC games on your Note 4, but the lag over wifi is so bad they are kind of unplayable and you can't hard tether for obvious reasons.
Let it go man. if you dont like it - stop using it. But youve said all there is to say.
stevegee111 said:
Let it go man. if you dont like it - stop using it. But youve said all there is to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, do you actually read posts before responding or just blurt things out? I said on numerous occasions in this thread that I like the GVR and it is worth the money, it just isn't the WOW experience I was hoping for. My advice to you, since you're new and clearly don't know better, is read the words someone has said before commenting on them.
SMH
Actually there is one experience for me that does have the WOW immersive feeling. It is the Lunar Theater in Oculus Cinema. When the lights come up just looking at that is so amazing. I don't care about silly fuzzy 360 videos, give me more content like THAT, not only to sit and look at but to roam and explore. Even have a moon monster or two jump out at me.
...and your point is?
the gear VR is a fun early adopter thing to experience the current status quo of VR. its impressive in some ways, not so much in others. thus the "innovator edition", thus no finished product on the open market yet from neither samsung nor oculus nor anybody else, thus the very transparent "this is only for people who like to come along for the ride early on" policy. the paths to better products is known, the technology is not quite there yet, but its already a lot of fun for some, and less fun for others. the end.
not sure what youre trying to accomplish here.
zorglub667 said:
...and your point is?
the gear VR is a fun early adopter thing to experience the current status quo of VR. its impressive in some ways, not so much in others. thus the "innovator edition", thus no finished product on the open market yet from neither samsung nor oculus nor anybody else, thus the very transparent "this is only for people who like to come along for the ride early on" policy. the paths to better products is known, the technology is not quite there yet, but its already a lot of fun for some, and less fun for others. the end.
not sure what youre trying to accomplish here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, did you READ the OP? Let me explain again. I am responding to the fact videos I have seen of people using the Oculus Rift (which has an inferior screen to this) that has them utterly gobsmacked. They laugh, they swear, they are AMAZED. Considering this device has a superior image I was expecting the same and am disappointed I have not experienced those emotions.
If you had actually read the OP I wouldn't have to repeat myself.
P.S., They are selling this commercially through BestBuy brick and mortar stores, so let's not pretend this is some alpha unit for "innovators" only, despite the clever name. Other than better content, I doubt future iterations of the Gear VR will be much improved until we get higher res displays.
** Dude, 13 posts in 8 years and you decide to finally pontificate in my thread?
Folks, if you disagree with my viewpoint that is your prerogative, but at least show that you read the words I wrote before commenting. It is clear from the last two individuals that they did not read the OP.
So another thread about the screen door effect ruining the experience for you'? Wasn't it enough to ruin just the one? IF you don't like the experience then sell the device and wait for the Note 5 or 6 (4K/5K screens) and Gear VR2.
The videos are a bit fuzzy I agree, but moving the device closer to your face will definitely increase your FOV (difficult to measure/calculate by just how much). Moving the lens further from your eyes doesn't make the pixel-issue disappear, but instead distorts the outer edges and makes for a worse experience (no wonder you hate it so much; you are lessening the amount of "in-focus" light that reaches your eyes while making the black edges all the more visible).
This is an INNOVATOR's edition and if you fail to see that then you truly shouldn't own one. The experience is the best VR experience we can achieve as of yet, and you aren't apparently able to comprehend that fact, and the fact that people are different; some aren't as anal about pixels being visible as you are, thus the "wow amazing!"-effect they get when using it..
1. i did read your opening post.
2. that some people have no trouble to oversee the obvious resolution shortcomings while others do, and that you in particular are disappointed in the resolution, all that has been discussed many many times now, i would say. would you disagree?
3. it appears you are pretty quick at judging people. my post was not meant as an offense in any way. i must say i found the tone of your reply surprisingly aggressive. we're just chitchatting about a tech gadget here. no reason to get worked up about it.
still fail to see the point in opening yet another thread about the same topic. no idea what youre trying to archieve by this.
yes, we will only get better resolution, once we have small displays with even higher resolution than the current qHD generation. in case anyone didnt know that already...
no, i do not think that the way samsung/oculus sell this is a cheat in any way. i fondly remember the *numerous* disclaimers i had to click through to get mine. rarely has a manufacturer tried so hard to NOT sell me a product
the product isnt even advertised in the slightest. if at all, one could argue that it appears that samsung has been quite surprised by the demand. what little batches they put out seem to have sold out pretty much anywhere rather quickly. so: demand is up even though its so openly communicated to be an prototype-y product, so the usual dynamics of the free marketplace kick in, so bestbuy jumps on the bandwagon. it appears, that many people seem to be fine with the current shortcomings. an argument could be made if they tried to sell this to people without letting them try it out first. to kind of HIDE the real nature of it or something. but that does not seem to be the case anywhere, and i dont find that surprising either - overall, most people really seem to react very much on the "wow, wtf!" side of things. that it didnt wow you, im really sorry and i mean that completely without any sarcasm whatsoever. but i think its enough to discuss this in 2 or 3 threads and opening yet another still seems kind of pointless to me. many people are impressed. you are not. what else is there to say?
oh, btw: ive been around on XDA for a long time (ever since the very early windows mobile days when HTC was still selling its phones not under the HTC brand but labeled as MDA/XDA/whatever). this is an old account i had forgotten and ressurected because i forgot the password of another. if you feel the need to judge people based on something as artificial as a forum post number, well: to each his own.
Toss3 said:
So another thread about the screen door effect ruining the experience for you'? Wasn't it enough to ruin just the one? IF you don't like the experience then sell the device and wait for the Note 5 or 6 (4K/5K screens) and Gear VR2.
The videos are a bit fuzzy I agree, but moving the device closer to your face will definitely increase your FOV (difficult to measure/calculate by just how much). Moving the lens further from your eyes doesn't make the pixel-issue disappear, but instead distorts the outer edges and makes for a worse experience (no wonder you hate it so much; you are lessening the amount of "in-focus" light that reaches your eyes while making the black edges all the more visible).
This is an INNOVATOR's edition and if you fail to see that then you truly shouldn't own one. The experience is the best VR experience we can achieve as of yet, and you aren't apparently able to comprehend that fact, and the fact that people are different; some aren't as anal about pixels being visible as you are, thus the "wow amazing!"-effect they get when using it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And thanks for proving my point. You say, "so another thread about screen door effect ruining the experience for you?" Can you please point to me where in my OP I mention screen door effect at all? Right. I don't mention it. Not once.
This is a thread about whether you feel a "sense of immersion" that makes you say WOW. I am pleased that so many of you do. I have now shown this device to 10 people and not a single person has reacted that way. The general reaction has been, "Well, it's kind of cool but not what I expected" I ask them if they feel like they are "there" and not a single person has said yes. Most of my friends are older successful business people who aren't amazed by the latest bit of kit. Maybe older people have a more difficult time entering the VR world because they've been in the real world so long? 3 different people said, "Based upon the videos I've seen online I was expecting more (paraphrasing)".
The one exception, as I mentioned, is the actual theater (not the film but the theater itself) in Oculus Cinema. People thought the moon was the coolest and wondered why there wasn't more content like that. I'm hoping Oculus (or a developer) creates more soon.
BestBuy is now selling this device out of their retail stores with demo units set up in hundreds of locations. They are selling it at full retail. Name one other "beta" product that has ever been sold in this manner? I don't think that setting up store demo's is an attempt to "talk you out of buying this device".
I think by calling it an "Innovator Edition" Samsung is sort of giving themselves a "get out of jail free" card. Yes, here is our "Innovator Edition", don't expect much but oh yeah, we're selling it at BestBuy with demo units for full price. That's fine. They call it marketing. I do like this device and think it is well worth the $200 - as I have stated on numerous occasions which some members apparently miss each and every time.
I think the fact is (as I said in the OP that no one read), some people have more of a suspension of disbelief about VR than others. To me, while cool, most of it just seems like as handy film viewer (which is worthwhile on it's own). This is also the reaction my friends who have seen it give. Perhaps the real problem is simply content. There are some moments which are immersive - which I also stated but everyone seems to miss.
Assuming the GVR is truly a "beta" (it's really not - you don't sell betas in stores), what are people expecting from future products? This is plastic, some lenses, a headstrap and some electronics. Perhaps they will come up with some miracle lenses which parse out all pixelization? I honestly doubt that. The Gear VR is what it will be. What will change is the phone and content.
Here's one thing to keep in mind folks. Very very very few people come to forums such as this to discuss the Gear VR. Those who come tend to be fanboys and enthusiasts, and that's perfectly cool. The mistake people make is that they take the impressions of the few individuals here and project that over the marketplace.
On the other hand I am attempting to see this product through the eyes of the average non-enthusiast consumer. Many here say their friends have loved the product. We tend to associate with those who think as we do. In my own experience, the reaction has been far more muted.
If you wish to comment in this thread, please discuss the topic of immersion. Attacking me is not OT. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read the thread, simple as that.
** I'm wondering if people using the Oculus are having a more immersive experience not because of the technology but because of superior content? Watched a YouTube of a guy playing Assetto Corsa on the Rift and it looked incredible.
Hi folks,
If you don't want to participate in this thread or any other created by the OP or feel that it's not contributing to the well-being of XDA, please don't post. Trolling and arguing is not allowed on any thread. If people would learn to ignore others, possibly there would be less negative back and forth posts. Everyone, please ignoring threads and posts you don't like. Differing opinions are fine and it's ok to disagree with them but it's really not that serious. However, if something is bothering you to the point of distraction, then call a moderator.
Regards
mitchellvii said:
And thanks for proving my point. You say, "so another thread about screen door effect ruining the experience for you?" Can you please point to me where in my OP I mention screen door effect at all? Right. I don't mention it. Not once.
This is a thread about whether you feel a "sense of immersion" that makes you say WOW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which is exactly the point where one could argue that thats exactly the same thing. because, why again is it that you feel a lack of immersion? judging from most of your posts, that would be...oh right, the screen door effect.
q.e.d.
mitchellvii said:
I am pleased that so many of you do. I have now shown this device to 10 people and not a single person has reacted that way. The general reaction has been, "Well, it's kind of cool but not what I expected" I ask them if they feel like they are "there" and not a single person has said yes. Most of my friends are older successful business people who aren't amazed by the latest bit of kit. Maybe older people have a more difficult time entering the VR world because they've been in the real world so long? 3 different people said, "Based upon the videos I've seen online I was expecting more (paraphrasing)".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so, to be a bit more blunt, youre saying that in contrast to these friends of yours, whoever would disagree with their findings probably does so because...they "havent been in the real world for so long"? or maybe because theyre not "successful business people". or maybe because theyre "fanboys" that "make the mistake of not seeing this through the eyes of the average non-enthusiast consumer".
those are the things you are implying (albeit in a somewhat subtle, suggestive way). well then, so be it. i will leave this discussion, but id like to point out towards the forum moderation that the question about who is trolling and who is not is at the very least somewhat debatable.
zorglub667 said:
which is exactly the point where one could argue that thats exactly the same thing. because, why again is it that you feel a lack of immersion? judging from most of your posts, that would be...oh right, the screen door effect.
q.e.d.
so, to be a bit more blunt, youre saying that in contrast to these friends of yours, whoever would disagree with their findings probably does so because...they "havent been in the real world for so long"? or maybe because theyre not "successful business people". or maybe because theyre "fanboys" that "make the mistake of not seeing this through the eyes of the average non-enthusiast consumer".
those are the things you are implying (albeit in a somewhat subtle, suggestive way). well then, so be it. i will leave this discussion, but id like to point out towards the forum moderation that the question about who is trolling and who is not is at the very least somewhat debatable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again you are attributing your interpretation to my intent then damning me for it. Do us both a favor and take my words at face value. I don't have a subtle meaning or agenda.
I was simply expressing the experiences of my friends and because it disagrees with your experience it has apparently short circuited your brain and convinced you that you possess psychic powers.
Couple factoids you should consider. Most people who lurk (read but do not comment) at this forum probably do not yet own the GVR. They are just here to read feedback from owners. The average typical consumer that buys a GVR from BestBuy has no idea XDA even exists, and so they won't be commenting. So we are left with mainly enthusiasts who are at least somewhat invested in the idea they made a good purchase. That's not to say their opinion is not 100% valid, but it is to say that one should not project the opinions here to the rest of the marketplace. The sample is skewed. It is my opinion that the typical non enthusiast consumer will not be as impressed with the sense of immersion as you are. My friends which are a good sample of an older non enthusiast demographic were not. They all thought it was cool. No one was saying OMG and begging me to try it again.
Here's a perfect example in the differences of perceived immersion:
I just played DreadHalls after watching a YouTube of a full grown man playing it. He was so frightened that I literally thought he was going to pee his pants. He had to take a break mid-game just to catch his breath and calm his nerves.
So anyway, I just played it. Seriously, WTF? I might have found this scary when I was 8. Just think really really weak Doom. I say weak Doom because Doom actually was scary. Immersive? I guess if cartoon bricks and groaning noises are immersive for you. So here is an example of a user who was actually physically frightened by a game I just found silly. He kept saying, "Wow, it's like I'm really there!" I kept saying, "Wow, cartoon bricks!"
I don't blame the Gear VR. A large part preventing me from experiencing immersion is simply a lack of content. I'm also spoiled by years of triple monitor gaming with a fast PC and awesome video card. Now THAT'S immersive. When they create games that have the realism and texture of the Lunar Theater, then I'll start getting more excited about this platform.
Just played HeroBound for the first time (didn't have a controller before). Now that game is very immersive. The opening scene with the big volcano is amazing. If you haven't played that game definitely give it a try. Hopefully someone will bring that level of graphics to a 1st person shooter.
Haha, I get what you mean. I read one thread on reddit saying that he was 'crying' after using the gearvr for the first time. LOL. Seriously, I just don't get it. I want VR to succeed so much, but I also have my feet on the ground and don't let the hype go straight to my head. Using it, the sweet spot for focus is tiny, right in the middle of the lense, look up or down left or right without moving your head and it immediately starts to get proportionally blurry. The resolution reminds of looking at one of those digital projectors from 10 years ago, the panasonic AE300. The resolution was quarter HD, like the iPhone 4 except blown up on a massive screen. That's what movie watching experience is like in Occulus Cinema, the black screen door probably takes 30% or more of the 'full' image, it just looks really bad, and that's not even talking about the low ass resolution this rectangle takes up.
Some might say I'm being too harsh, whenever I get a new product I find all the flaws first and gradually get used to those flaws if I decide to keep it. But I never say this product is better than it really is. Some might get caught up on the hype train and want for VR to succeed so much they never talk about what's currently wrong/broken or what can be improved. I think it will succeed eventually, but clearly the GearVR is not a consumer ready product. I honestly laugh thinking if Samsung released GearVR without Oculus and John Carmack's expertise. I mean the smoothness of the experience is what makes it special, not the lenses, or the screen.
Having said that, the one place it just works is games. Herobound, that ring toss game, Ikarus. These fixed point experiences are much better imo, competely avoids motion sickness and maximises the phone's graphic ability. The sea creatures of Ocean Rift have a solidity and fluidity that creates a compelling experience and makes me believe that VR is inevitable. The comments from people really depend on what previous experience and expectation the user has. Most people don't expect anything, don't have anything to compare it to and are amazed with Google cardboard when they first see it. The main issue that disappointed me was the fact that I had paid 250 for lenses that have barely acceptable focus and awful peripheral vision. GearVR needs way more adjustment, not only distance, but angle and individual lense focus.
Then regarding the media quality of the 360 video demos. Ranging from meh to this is terrible. The best material has been from alternative sources It's disappointing that Samsung supplied such low quality videos with the premier of a new category. One would think they want to prove what VR is really capable of. At least host a site where users can download high quality 360 video, 360 is probably overrated too, 180 is very immersive and a better balance of quality vs filesize.
The catalogue currently available is still small. I can see how new users can blow through content in a few days and leave the GearVR to gather dust. Overall this is very much a beta product. Procuring one was a pain in the hole as well, much like the Note 4 process. Samsung should definitely copy how Apple rolls out products.