No 10 Website Petitions - Off-topic

Hi All
I have created a petition (Abolish Central Government) on the official No 10 Downing Street government website. Take a look at my text and sign if you agree. Also create your own petition and gain support.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/EndGovernment/
DAz

More details from petition creator
The best thing to start rebuilding this country is to abolish central government, which is an institution which has no real interest in the human person, it is only self serving and drains all our resources, murders our people with pointless wars etc etc. We need to get back to human basics, 1st family 2nd local community and by local community I mean the one an individual chooses! Democracy what does it mean? It means what ever some power drunk person wants it to mean. We all know this is unlikely to happen peacefully so maybe it will have to happen by force, which is a great shame but a probably reality. I could write much more about the sad state of our human races current failings, but of course your not allowed to do that because you be classed as a terrorist whatever that is, abit like democracy NO REAL MEANING!
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Darrell: sending a petition to Central Governement to abolish itself seems to have a low chance of success. I do agree with much of your sentiment though.
V

With all due respect Darrell, if you don't know the meaning of the word 'terrorist', or think it has no real meaning - you live in a very nice and pink world of illusion. I sensually hope it won't blow apart one day when you step on a train / plain or enter some large store and run in to a suicide bomber or chemical / biological attack.

Related

America - SuperPower or SuperGreedy

Make your choice
Ofcourse I mean the government, not(all) the People.
I fail to see a relation with the XDA...? :roll:
Microsoft helped make the bloody thing Its part americana
I'm sure that one's view of this topic and poll is based on the time-period in which you have lived and on which side of the power you stand.
Be Carefull what you say Jupiter or We'll Be next on the Bush take over list Just like Iraq Just Tell Someone That We dont have many OIL Productions over here so Leave us alone
silly subject on this site
i thought this site was about the xda and not a few peoples gripes about america. oh and by the way osma bin laden doesent want piece and are quite prepared to drop a bomb in a country near you. i work with a iraqi who had to leave his country because saddam was about to kill him and a lot of iraqis have been killed. and its well known he had chemical weapons as america sold them to him as did russia. he also had a pile of chinese weapons so maybe all the super powers were al fault. didnt the sas train osma.
regards kevin :?:
Yes Kevin, the mentality of Jihad was nurtured, encouraged and paid for with billions of dollars supplied by Saudi and USA which was channeled through Pakistan to the Mujhadeen and others when fighting the Russians during the Afghan/Russian conflict. It suited the west at the time when others were fighting proxy wars while attempting to change the political landscape but it doesnt suit them now when the dog they trained is ripping the ass out of the trainer.
Regards the chemical weapons of Sadam, all these were destroyed under the supervision of the weapons inspectors or under their instruction. Almost all military installations were destroyed by years of daily bombing by USA and UK. The sanctions against Iraq affected children far more than the leadership, many thousands of children died because many medicines including treatment for childhood cancers were considered capable of being used in chemical weapons. Its a vile disgusting state of affairs that was ignored by the west for many years. Even one child dying through lack of basic care is abhorrent to any right thinking human being, sanctions often hurt the poor population more than others.
Open your eyes people. This is the "ANYTHING BUT IT" section of the forum Translated that means no xda discussion but GENERAL discussion.
thanks
I'm sure that one's view of this topic and poll is based on the time-period in which you have lived and on which side of the power you stand.
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No, I think it depends upon an objective study of the reality, studying the American governments interventions around the world.
Be Carefull what you say Jupiter or We'll Be next on the Bush take over list Just like Iraq Just Tell Someone That We dont have many OIL Productions over here so Leave us alone
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My XDA screen gets a bit greasy now and again. Thats Oil! I think that could be worth sendind 100,000 troops to secure the deposits from it.
Ofcourse, it will be for the protection of the screen which is getting dirty. - A threat to world security. How altruistic!
XDA
mrijn said:
I fail to see a relation with the XDA...? :roll:
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I think that's why it's posted in the "Anything but it" forum section.
I think Americans need to take off their patriotic spectacles and see what is going on in the world.
Living in the land of hope aye? well that land is guzzling up countries for there own profit as clearly highlighted in a C4 program of i'm sure rtouhly the same name as this topic which said america has one hell of a debt and no way to pay it!
Its called C.A.P.I.T.A.L.I.S.M.
cruisin-thru said:
Yes Kevin, the mentality of Jihad was nurtured, encouraged and paid for with billions of dollars supplied by Saudi and USA which was channeled through Pakistan to the Mujhadeen and others when fighting the Russians during the Afghan/Russian conflict. It suited the west at the time when others were fighting proxy wars while attempting to change the political landscape but it doesnt suit them now when the dog they trained is ripping the ass out of the trainer.
Regards the chemical weapons of Sadam, all these were destroyed under the supervision of the weapons inspectors or under their instruction. Almost all military installations were destroyed by years of daily bombing by USA and UK. The sanctions against Iraq affected children far more than the leadership, many thousands of children died because many medicines including treatment for childhood cancers were considered capable of being used in chemical weapons. Its a vile disgusting state of affairs that was ignored by the west for many years. Even one child dying through lack of basic care is abhorrent to any right thinking human being, sanctions often hurt the poor population more than others.
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well put man and well said...best thing i have ever read for this subject!
and
it's all a conspiracy!!
it's all about the green!!
How can I vote "both?"
Greed is good. It's what made us a superpower. The rest of the world can suck my sack if they don't like it.
its what will unfortunately destroy your way of living. We British are by no means perfect, in fact we have been doing some real bad stuff for years, I.e. the thousands of Russian people we sent back to there deaths just after the second world war. We have been dealing with Terrorists for years, so when we say get on with your life and just deal with it.....we mean it, you cant stop and change the world. Fact is America has been screwing up the world since before the second world war, changing governments of other nations via the CIA was bound to come bite your arses eventually, Sadam was at one point Hired by the CIA to kill either the president or prime minister, either way he messed up and killed the wrong one, the US had to get the guy out so they sent him out through Syria, he eventually got an idea to take over the place which he did, and as someone said before arranged with the USA the sale of chemical weapons, the same weapons he used and thus started the first Golf war, rather ironic really isn’t it. The other cool thing is, 9/11 right, funded by Saudi, Most of the people where Saudi, Bin-ladin and His family are Saudi, so who do we bomb........Afghanistan!! yeah how did I miss that! Saudi owns the US Government or i should say a number of people on the US government and has stuck billions of $'s in to the country, the US is not capable of finding the truth when the truth blames the US in the first place.
Ireland had a reason to bomb Cities in the UK, and I guarantee this new guy has a reason as well.......oil.....Israel.....who knows but with a bit of luck we'll find out before they (USA) gets us all killed!
Anyhow, I shall probably disappear from my home after this piece so I leave everything to my wife including my XDA II and its manual on how to use it
)
Just my two pence worth.......
Arrogance will be the downfall of anyone. I sense their superpower days are numbered. Especially if a regime comes to power that switches off the oil and takes an independant approach.
The thing about superpowers are if you dun suck up to them they crush you. Those that do not conform to their ideals are left to die. Tyranny????
Maybe but in the end the soldiers and the citizens suffer.
The Political leaders safely at home eating their steaks and pies.
The thing about superpowers are if you dun suck up to them they crush you. Those that do not conform to their ideals are left to die. Tyranny????
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I disagree. The current 'SuperPower' is even destroying countries that do 'suck up' to it. No one is safe from its greedy paws.

Any atheists in here?

As I stumbled upon the brotherhood of muslims in this thread, I got a little jealous of the unity they and other religious groups sometimes possess.
Since we atheists aren't a homogeneous group that have any words to follow, except maybe science and the neverending falsification-process of it, I would like to greet all those out there that only believe in the world as you sense it, and the physics behind it.
We don't have any books to follow, so here are 10 good old quotes for you:
1. “The civilized man has a moral obligation to be skeptical. . . . Any man who for one moment abandons or suspends the questioning spirit has for that moment betrayed humanity.” –Bergen Evens
2. The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. -Delos B. McKown
3. Faith means not wanting to know what is true. -Friedrich Nietzsche
4. What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. -Christopher Hitchens
5. Piety is implanted in human nature; it is deemed a sure refuge. To the growing child, that which falls from his elders' lips is a lesson that abides with him all his life. Monks in their cloisters and devotees in the mosques accept their creed just as a story is handed down from him who tells it, without distinguishing between a true interpreter and a false. If one of these had found his kin among the Magians, or among the Sabians, he would have declared himself a Magian, or among the Sabians he would have become nearly or quite like them. -Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri 973-1057
6. The doubter is a true man of science; he doubts only himself and his interpretations, but he believes in science. -Claude Bernard
7. I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain
8. A believer states everything must have a creator but fail to say how he was created. -Anonymous
9. The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles? -John Adams 2nd president of the USA
10. But the great tragedy of Science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact - which is so constantly being enacted under the eyes of philosophers... -T.H. Huxley
Peace.
i consider "atheist" to be one who is not a believer in any of the religious movements out there. It's very possible for them to believe in a god, just not necessarily the god that anybody else subscribes to.
I fall into that category. I believe that the sun gives everything on earth life. Which it does, in one way or another.
And therefore i am cool. Yeah......
Agnostic?
I agree with Mike, partially, since in my humble and uninformed opinion the primary need for religion has always been fear of pain and death. I will disgree with Mike on the net benefit of religion, specially in the 21st century...
Here's another quote:
"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." Richard Feynman
and another by a well known philosopher:
"Your're asking me who to follow. You're asking me who is right. Don't ask me. I don't know!" O. Osbourne
mikechannon said:
All of us have faith in some form or other. An atheist scientist has faith that science will produce all the answers (though there is no proof of that). In fact many scientists acknowledge that most theories (even once proven) are only true until another theory come along to show the first one wasn't quite right or did not apply in all situations.
Given virtually every civilisation that has ever existed has had some deity or other then scientifically speaking there must be a human need to have "faith". Furthermore, given nature preserves through the generations, only those things that aid survival, then faith must have a net benefit to survival rather as opposed to not having "faith".
Perhaps it is that humans, because they can think ahead, have a need to know that there is some overall purpose/reason for things. In other words that life is not just some purely accidental /random fluke of nature. Even if "faith" is a delusion therefore, it nevertheless prevents the alternative which would be a belief in the utter pointlessness of everything.
Mike
PS. This thread will only last as long as there is no discussion of specific religions. We all realise (or should do!) the sensitivities involved if we get into commenting on or arguing about peoples religious beliefs. For as long as there is respect perhaps there can be an academic chat. It may be that another Mod will close this thread as a religious debate and not appropriate even in off-topic.
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Thank you for a thoughtful response. I quite enjoyed reading it. As a follower of the scientific method, I can assure you that we will never find all the answers. Because we are so limited.
The last part (PS.->) I can somewhat agree with, but for peace sake only.
What religious person can claim rights over the religion they are part of? I find that offensive. (EDIT: in general life)
I grew up with a religion that I feel I have all the right to say and mean anything about. It's part of me, even though I don't believe in it.
I understand that there is a time and place for everything
I am of the view that religion (of any stripe) is a parasite on the humankind, taking advantage of our weaknesses and exploiting our strengths. Science is the antidote.
If there are any advantages they are incidental.
Surur
surur said:
I am of the view that religion (of any stripe) is a parasite on the humankind, taking advantage of our weaknesses and exploiting our strengths. Science is the antidote.
If there are any advantages they are incidental.
Surur
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The development of ethics and moral values that glues the societies together (even though the morals or ethics may be absurd) can have a very positive and stable effect on the way people interact.
Security. False in a bigger sense, true for the individual.
Other than that, with a grain of salt, I agree.
But I believe that humans are a parasite on the earth. And to be a parasite is not just a negative thing. We are what we are. All events has made us this way, and more will make us change or dissappear in time.
rhov23 said:
The development of ethics and moral values that glues the societies together (even though the morals or ethics may be absurd) can have a very positive and stable effect on the way people interact.
Security. False in a bigger sense, true for the individual.
Other than that, with a grain of salt, I agree.
But I also believe that humans are a parasite on the earth (hehe)
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Who says morals and ethics are tied to religion. They seem to arise from simple game theory - do onto others as you would have done to you did not need Jesus to say it.
Surur
surur said:
Who says morals and ethics are tied to religion. They seem to arise from simple game theory - do onto others as you would have done to you did not need Jesus to say it.
Surur
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I didn't say it was only tied to religion. Religion is made by people, and morals/ethics are therefor made by people. Religion is a way to get a social structure, control the masses, make them believe and behave.
Let's have a quote:
Religion is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx. And don't you DARE call me a communist
mikechannon said:
Well at one level I can agree. If by religion we mean that thing that is used as a reason to fight wars, or religion used by governments to control people.
However I don't agree if we mean religion as the thing that is about wanting to know the answers, particularly to the "big" questions. Or religion as the thing that gives comfort in times of stress etc.
That seems to me the biggest problem in talking about such matters. We would have to spend hours defining what bit or slant on religion we are taliking about.
I actually quite like fzzyrn's concept of believing in a God which is not necessarily the same as any other person believes in and not part of any mainstream religion. You see often I think when you hear scientists talking about the big unknowns and then hear religious leaders talking about the meaning of God it is quite easy to detect a lot of similar thinking between the two. Just for example religious people tend to talk about religion giving people generally and as individuals "a purpose". Just the other day I heard a scientist at the Hadron Collider talking about how discovery of fundamental particles would help us to see "the purpose" of life.
The quest it seems to me is the same and even the language can be the same. History actually shows that religions have lead the way in scientific research. It is only in recent times that science and religion have been seen as conflicting rather than opposite sides of the same coin.
Mike
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I agree with you, but not on the last part.
The large religions, change when they must, not when they should. And only when it comes to hard facts, like the earth rotates around the sun etc.
The fact is that religion changes only for selfpreservation, and not by logic. And what monster do we get then?
rhov23 said:
Religion is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx. And don't you DARE call me a communist
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There are legitimate uses of opiates that benefit everyone that is involved... banning them completely, because of specific types of abuses, would be a foolish move.
The same is true of religion.
psionandy said:
There are legitimate uses of opiates that benefit everyone that is involved... banning them completely, because of specific types of abuses, would be a foolish move.
The same is true of religion.
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Druggie!
Just kidding. Good point, but I never said that I was for a ban. I just want to tell those that are smart enough, that everything around us is connected.
You can't run cars on prayer. Or will someone prove me wrong?
can a free thinker leaning on atheism report in? lol
Baronic said:
can a free thinker leaning on atheism report in? lol
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Hi, welcome. You are now ready to be brainwashed. Please follow my directions closely, and send me $100.
No, really. If you don't send money you will die from old age!
Some quotes I've picked up. Sorry I have previously deleted most of the speakers/writers names-
Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.^Voltaire
But that a camel-merchant should stir up insurrection in his village; that in league with some miserable followers he persuades them that he talks with the angel Gabriel; that he boasts of having been carried to heaven, where he received in part this unintelligible book, each page of which makes common sense shudder; that, to pay homage to this book, he delivers his country to iron and flame; that he cuts the throats of fathers and kidnaps daughters; that he gives to the defeated the choice of his religion or death: this is assuredly nothing any man can excuse, at least if he was not born a Turk, or if superstition has not extinguished all natural light in him.
If God has made us in his image, we have returned him the favor
To pray to God is to flatter oneself that with words one can alter nature.
It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence.
God created sex. Priests created marriage.
God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God.
Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.
If the ignorance of nature gave birth to Gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.
If we look back at the begining we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them; and that custom, respect and tyranny support them, in order to make the blindness of man serve their own interest.
Opinions have caused more ills than the plague or earthquakes on this little globe of ours.^Voltaire
They condemn what they do not understand.
The devil's greatest trick was convincing the world that God exists.
The best defense against logic is ignorance.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
. . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!
Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience
Reason is the antonym of Religion
Reason should be destroyed in all Christians^Martin Luther
Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived^Oscar Wilde
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unitelligible propositions.
God "fashioned hell for the inquisitive"^St Augustine
Ideas must be distinct before reason can be acted upon them.^Thomas Jefferson
The only victimless crime is blasphemy
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about
If there were no God, there would be no Atheists.
dane cook anyone....
the bible is going to get printed on you!!!!!!!!
hy
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
MAZAR SCIENTIST said:
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
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No God = No Devil
No Supernatural Defender = No Supernatural Attacker
MAZAR SCIENTIST said:
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
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The Prophets, too, among us come to teach,
Are one with those who from the pulpit preach;
They pray, and slay, and pass away, and yet
Our ills are as the pebbles on the beach.
- Al-Ma'arri, أبو العلاء أحمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان التنوخي المعري
I hope you get well soon.

Marxism, What do you know of it?

I wanted to start a thread of a subject I know nothing about. However, I am very interested in learning Marx's language within his writing. Capital is a great novel by Marx. However, the book is written with discussion in mind. I would like to know what you know about Marxism and how you agree and disagree...
marxism mean that all means of production is controlled directly by the government
everybody make the same salary
pro
no poor people equal opportunities for everybody no matter the status of parents
con
no way for risk takers and people with bright ideas and people who compete
to excel and make better products and cheaper prices and dreams for those not there
yet to strive to gain what the successfully gained
often see americans abuse these terms along with socialism which pretty much is the same deal
about countries with higher tax's more welfare and more strict gun laws then usa
one can feel what one like about those 3 things but it don't as I see it equal socialism
I feel Marxism is the most wrongly followed belief in the world. For any definition you can refer to wiki.
Marxism takes away all incentive to excel in any area.
Rudegar said:
marxism mean that all means of production is controlled directly by the government
everybody make the same salary
pro
no poor people equal opportunities for everybody no matter the status of parents
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One word: Utopia.
Cheers
^^^wrong. that would be the end of human progress.
It died a few years ago.
Marxism has a noble aim but - as already pointed out - is a disaster in practice.
We will have general elections next weekend. People are bored of the same platitudinous speeches of politicians. The campaign is made of scandals. There is no credibility. No values. No one believes, no one knows, the political philosophies of the parties. Not even them, I think. Abstention will be high.
Marx and Engels had a lot of innovative ideas and Marxism in its pure form is probably as close to a perfect society as humanly possible. It has never been implemented anywhere in the world.
It is debateable if Marxism would lead to stagnation of thought and progress. No way to know for sure, unless we get a real life example. I personally don't agree with that conclusion.
Communism is a perverted version of it that lets a small number of people on top of society enjoy anything they want and have a free hand with power and control while the common people live in poverty.
Capitalism and Communism have more in common than you know...

Internet Censorship Bill - CALL/WRITE your representatives!

I didn't see a post for this elsewhere (though some may recall that I have an exceptional ability to miss the obvious ), and you will not hear about this on the news, and it's barely even being covered in print or online. I'm usually too much of a cynic to bother with this sort of activism but this is a big deal, so please grant me 5 minutes of your time; you won't regret it.
The big deal? The "Stop Online Piracy Act" (SOPA). Well wait now, that doesn't sound so bad. We all download music for free here and there, maybe use an "extended trial" of Photoshop, but we know that piracy is technically stealing...so this can't be that bad, right? Wrong. Horribly wrong.
The fact that no news agency is covering this is absolutely insane. We criticize countries like China and Iran for censorship, but at least they don't attempt to conceal it within a vague anti-piracy bill. It is no exaggeration to say that this is one of the most significant bills to come through congress in the past decade, and most people don't even know it exists; much less that discussion began on it today. Of those that do know about it, half of them don't understand why it's a bad thing because H.R.3261 has such an innocuous name (it is also called the Protect IP Act of 2011 in the Senate). Don't be fooled.
"American Censorship Day" - Information on the Internet Blacklist Bills​I urge you to take the time to educate yourself on H.R.3261 "SOPA" and write and/or call your Senators and Congress(wo)men! I guarantee if you spend 10 minutes reading about this, you will understand why I'm using an annoyingly large, bright red font.
The Wikipedia Article has a brief section ("Supporters") that shows--in a nutshell--how some politicians are deceptively framing this as a "pro-jobs" bill, among other pleasant sounding things; this couldn't be further from the truth. This is, in a manner of speaking, trying to apply archaic copyright laws to a 21st century Internet, rather than taking the effort to rewrite the copyright laws to make sense in the modern world.
You can find a lot of information explained very well at "American Censorship Day" website (scroll down past the petition), and I would encourage you to do your own research as well. Sign the petition if you want, but really, it is considerably more effective to call or write (or both!) your representatives.
A few more good links:
"Contacting The Congress" - Easily lookup the names/contact information of your Reps/Senators.
SOPA Wikipedia Article - References - These references link to a variety of websites/articles that are both for and against this bill. I would like to personally point out how most of those in support are entities of a political nature, while those against are largely non-political technology-oriented entities.
Full Text of H.R.3261 [PDF] - A relatively "short" 78 pages.
Hearing Information - House Judiciary Committee - This bill is on "the fastrack," meaning its authors are trying to push it through as quickly as possible...This hearing is where the bill began it's journey today (11/16/11).
I thank you for taking the time to read this; if you choose to reply to this thread, bash me as much as you like, but please keep your responses to each other civil.
Alright, back to rooting my Revo (before doing so is a felony ).
Sincerely,
James
Good stuff the masses don't even realize how important this is
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Basically when this bill passes we have no freedom of speech on the internets. The US government can block websites hosted on servers outside it's borders. And you can get sued for having a song playing on the radio heard in your video posted online.
jaszek said:
Basically when this bill passes we have no freedom of speech on the internets. The US government can block websites hosted on servers outside it's borders. And you can get sued for having a song playing on the radio heard in your video posted online.
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This is ridiculous we must stop them!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Must stop big brother government before it's too late!
Its getting near time for the guns to come out boys...
Brb, there are strange men in suits at my door....
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Great Job was about to post something about this on here but you beat me to it anyway here are some more links to articles,info and petitions:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-segal/stop-the-internet-blackli_b_739836.html
*
http://americancensorship.org/
http://demandprogress.org/blacklist/*
http://demandprogress.org/blacklist/?referring_akid=a2655379.916925._mXAo4&source=auto-taf
P.S keep spreading the word guys!
I think XDA should censor their logo/ and or have the javascript popup to support it http://americancensorship.org/
I have done it to my website for support purposes. come on guys we need this to be halted! So if you have a website/ blog please join the movement and censor your website for a day!
I guess this is the day when we finally found out for sure that govenments can be bought and paid for by greedy corporations.
You are now no longer being ruled by an elected body, but by a fat-cat in a pin-stripe suit.
This is the new world order i guess.
Very well written. I know quite a bit about this topic, since we will get something called "vorratsdatenspeicherung" where I live (austria). Basically The government logs your internet connection and it logs when and who you call/write a sms/ send an email and where you were by doing that.
Should be published on the portal!
I do what i want, because I can.
THIS IS CRAZY
This has to be one of those interpretation of the law issues though surely? I mean... you can't be prosecuted for lying on a dating profile about your height, weight, age etc. There'd be nobody left on match.com
Mykocorum said:
This has to be one of those interpretation of the law issues though surely? I mean... you can't be prosecuted for lying on a dating profile about your height, weight, age etc. There'd be nobody left on match.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way the law is written does allow for scenarios like the one you propose. The retort of the politicians is, "We won't ever (ab)use this power for doing stuff like that, never ever." I don't know about you, but that's not too reassuring for me. If it's not abused now by these politicians, it'll be abused later by future politicians. Not to mention the precedent it sets...Once you give the government a little bit of control, it becomes very easy for them to get a lot of control.
Even if this were solely an interpretation of the law issue I'd still be against it, because Congress shouldn't be writing laws that can be so easily misinterpreted.
A link to the full text is up there, I plan on reading it tomorrow.
I totally agree the law should be written so that there is no room for interpretation.. you know if what you are doing is illegal from day one, ignorance is not a defence, but as devils advocate the counter is that you end up with thousands of very specific laws for hundreds of situations whilst occurrences the lawmakers didn't think of at the time are getting through loopholes and running away.
Circumstantially you should really be able to use the end purpose of why you are doing what you are doing as to the criminality of what's going down. I don't think anyone on this board would argue that a 40 year old man pretending to be a 13 year old girl on a forum or website to talk to other teenagers should be made illegal and is a very wrong thing - but who hasn't said they are two inches taller on a dating profile or put their build down as "athletic" rather than "a few extra pounds"
Bear in mind that the UK equivalent to this, the 'Digital Economy Act' was passed into law some time ago with barely a whimper of protest. Just like ProtectIP, it was kept quiet and barely reported on until it was too late. We just woke up one morning to draconian new laws. Again, it was bought and paid for by big media.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Economy_Act_2010
I doubt anything can be done to stop the same happening in the US, but perhaps enough pressure can be brought to bear to force some changes to the act. At least you guys have advanced warning to do something about it.
Edit: Big Content stacks Senate Committee
"US Senators have done their level best to give Big Content the law it wants to basically lock up citizens who might think of piracy or file sharing without having to worry about that pesky thing called constitution. The House Judiciary Committee today held an important hearing on the Stop Online Piracy Act but only those witnesses who would not object to the law being invited. This was designed to give the impression that all the witnesses were in favour of the law."
Bump this baby. Also voted for frontpage!
I do what i want, because I can.
DirkGently said:
Bear in mind that the UK equivalent to this, the 'Digital Economy Act' was passed into law some time ago with barely a whimper of protest. Just like ProtectIP, it was kept quiet and barely reported on until it was too late. We just woke up one morning to draconian new laws. Again, it was bought and paid for by big media.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Economy_Act_2010
I doubt anything can be done to stop the same happening in the US, but perhaps enough pressure can be brought to bear to force some changes to the act. At least you guys have advanced warning to do something about it.
Edit: Big Content stacks Senate Committee
"US Senators have done their level best to give Big Content the law it wants to basically lock up citizens who might think of piracy or file sharing without having to worry about that pesky thing called constitution. The House Judiciary Committee today held an important hearing on the Stop Online Piracy Act but only those witnesses who would not object to the law being invited. This was designed to give the impression that all the witnesses were in favour of the law."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for posting this...It's absolutely crazy...I'm sure they'll find a way to completely circumvent a public hearing that gives opponents a chance to speak throughout the entire process.
jamRwoo said:
Thanks for posting this...It's absolutely crazy...I'm sure they'll find a way to completely circumvent a public hearing that gives opponents a chance to speak throughout the entire process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As always, the people can have a say.. at the ballot box!
I'm pleased to report that the government that introduced the DEA in the UK, lost in the next election shortly afterwards. (After being in power for thirteen years).
Karma b*tches!
Bumping this due to some developments...
Well, this is finally seeing the light of day and getting coverage by some news agencies; caught these articles on Drudge Report.
I just want to say that I hope Chris Dodd dies in a fire. Slowly. FYI: He's a former Senator spearheading this bill AND the new head of the MPAA. Primarily by attempting to bribe members of Congress. Gotta love that the Hollywood/Record Label lobbyists are getting all the airtime, while the people who actually understand this stuff are being silenced as much as possible.
Not too late to call/write your representatives. You can also share these links with your friends...tweet them, facebook them, reddit them, do whatever. If these links don't scare the living s**t out of you, well...idk...too many benzos perhaps. Feel free to copy this post and use it wherever, if you wish.
All of these articles are great and cover a different aspect (with some overlap) of the consequences of this legislation. Props to The Hill for giving this so much coverage; glad someone's doing it.
---
MPAA Head Chris Dodd on Online Censorship Bill: China's the Model -- http://bit.ly/u7kgXy
"When the Chinese told Google that they had to block sites or they couldn't do [business] in their country, they managed to figure out how to block sites."
Google chairman says online piracy bill would 'criminalize' the Internet -- http://bit.ly/tRWEnj
"It's not a good thing. I understand the goal of what SOPA and PIPA are trying to do," Schmidt said of the Senate counterpart bill, the Protect IP Act. "Their goal is reasonable, their mechanism is terrible. They should not criminalize the intermediaries. They should go after the people that are violating the law."
Internet piracy bill: A free speech 'kill switch' -- http://bit.ly/tY6o6f
Consider this: Under the proposed legislation all that’s required for government to shutdown a specific website is the mere accusation that the site unlawfully featured copyrighted content. Such an accusation need not be proven – or even accompanied by probable cause. All that an accuser (or competitor) needs to do in order to obtain injunctive relief is point the finger at a website.
Legal expert says online piracy bill is unconstitutional -- http://bit.ly/tNBUDH
"Conceivably, an entire website containing tens of thousands of pages could be targeted if only a single page were accused of infringement," Tribe writes. "Such an approach would create severe practical problems for sites with substantial user-generated content, such as Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube, and for blogs that allow users to post videos, photos, and other materials."
---
God, do I hate politicians.
P.S. For those interested in a more detailed analysis of how this is a flagrant violation of free speech: Laurence Tribe, a Harvard law professor and Supreme Court advocate, wrote a memo detailing how SOPA does exactly that -- http://scr.bi/sFSRBg
Closed:
XDA Forum Rules said:
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Apple's death warrant?

http://rt.com/news/apple-patent-transmission-block-408/
It's super lame they are going to do this.
the company says the affected sites are to be mostly cinemas, theaters, concert grounds and similar locations
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who the hell records movies on their phones? Now if I see something at a theater I want a picture of I cant have it just because my phone will think I might be in a movie viewing area? What about all the theaters in malls? No taking pictures in malls because there is a movie theater?!
And concert grounds? They really think they have the right to take our devices capabilities away from us during festivals? Hell I take more pics at festivals than I do any other time!! This pisses me off really bad, its the first step towards the government having total control over all our devices and when we can do what with them. I really thought about putting the swear filter to the test for this post. I am disappoint.
Can't see this going down with the general public....seriously bad move by Apple if it goes ahead....which is good news for android!
slaphead20 said:
which is good news for android!
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Click to collapse
I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
WiredPirate said:
I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if Apple has a patent on it?!
WiredPirate said:
I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if it winds up required (which it wont) there's only one contender with custom Roms that can remove it. I can't seem to remember who though
slaphead20 said:
But if Apple has a patent on it?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, that would be best for everybody.. Unless it becomes required and manufacturers have to pay Apple to use it by law.
WiredPirate said:
lol, that would be best for everybody.. Unless it becomes required and manufacturers have to pay Apple to use it by law.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well if you read the article Apple has indeed patented it, and Samsung aren't going to copy that one if they even the slightest bit of common sense
I just read the article and it's coming across as all kinds of morally disgusting. Imagine police brutality that nobody can record on their phones? Or if nobody could record the pepper spray cop walking around paper spraying students? I am not much for conspiracies but this is setting all kinds of bells off.
063_XOBX said:
I just read the article and it's coming across as all kinds of morally disgusting. Imagine police brutality that nobody can record on their phones? Or if nobody could record the pepper spray cop walking around paper spraying students? I am not much for conspiracies but this is setting all kinds of bells off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several states do not want you recording the police, I think some have passed laws against it already.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
WiredPirate said:
Several states do not want you recording the police, I think some have passed laws against it already.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Illegal or not if I felt my rights were being violated, I would do anything in my power to record what transpired. If a company worked with police to prevent me from doing that then they obviously don't want my money.
063_XOBX said:
Illegal or not if I felt my rights were being violated, I would do anything in my power to record what transpired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, and I would too. But the government holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force, so your going to get your ass whooped or be locked up for taking that picture. Plus the police will just confiscate your device, so better have it uploading in the background or you will never be able to prove it. And even if you do have the pics they will not be usable in court if the law says you cant take the pics.
Craziness. Also one little tweak for hackers to get their hands on and wreak havoc on iOS users. If it's on the phone it's in the code and in theory anyone with the right knowledge could take advantage of it.
MissionImprobable said:
Craziness. Also one little tweak for hackers to get their hands on and wreak havoc on iOS users. If it's on the phone it's in the code and in theory anyone with the right knowledge could take advantage of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hadn't even thought about that. Hahaha, sucks for them.
WiredPirate said:
I agree, and I would too. But the government holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force, so your going to get your ass whooped or be locked up for taking that picture. Plus the police will just confiscate your device, so better have it uploading in the background or you will never be able to prove it. And even if you do have the pics they will not be usable in court if the law says you cant take the pics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
063_XOBX said:
It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I hope it doesn't come to that though.
This just in, this just in: Apple sucks! Back to you, Jan.
063_XOBX said:
It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
got556 said:
And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good:
got556 said:
And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would never make an unfounded claim about the Police, especially not one about Police brutality. I believe that like all people (they're only human) they are mostly good. However if for even a second I believe that my rights are being encroached upon I will not hesitate to use any resource I can, media included, to bring it to light. Most "controversies" are a bunch of hype and not having all the facts, but if even 1/10th of a percent are real they need to be brought to light. Any time a person is given elevated authority over another there needs to be some kind of check to keep them in line. The media isn't perfect, but it's the closest thing we have to a semblance of something that "watches those who watch over us".

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