Related
As I stumbled upon the brotherhood of muslims in this thread, I got a little jealous of the unity they and other religious groups sometimes possess.
Since we atheists aren't a homogeneous group that have any words to follow, except maybe science and the neverending falsification-process of it, I would like to greet all those out there that only believe in the world as you sense it, and the physics behind it.
We don't have any books to follow, so here are 10 good old quotes for you:
1. “The civilized man has a moral obligation to be skeptical. . . . Any man who for one moment abandons or suspends the questioning spirit has for that moment betrayed humanity.” –Bergen Evens
2. The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. -Delos B. McKown
3. Faith means not wanting to know what is true. -Friedrich Nietzsche
4. What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. -Christopher Hitchens
5. Piety is implanted in human nature; it is deemed a sure refuge. To the growing child, that which falls from his elders' lips is a lesson that abides with him all his life. Monks in their cloisters and devotees in the mosques accept their creed just as a story is handed down from him who tells it, without distinguishing between a true interpreter and a false. If one of these had found his kin among the Magians, or among the Sabians, he would have declared himself a Magian, or among the Sabians he would have become nearly or quite like them. -Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri 973-1057
6. The doubter is a true man of science; he doubts only himself and his interpretations, but he believes in science. -Claude Bernard
7. I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain
8. A believer states everything must have a creator but fail to say how he was created. -Anonymous
9. The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles? -John Adams 2nd president of the USA
10. But the great tragedy of Science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact - which is so constantly being enacted under the eyes of philosophers... -T.H. Huxley
Peace.
i consider "atheist" to be one who is not a believer in any of the religious movements out there. It's very possible for them to believe in a god, just not necessarily the god that anybody else subscribes to.
I fall into that category. I believe that the sun gives everything on earth life. Which it does, in one way or another.
And therefore i am cool. Yeah......
Agnostic?
I agree with Mike, partially, since in my humble and uninformed opinion the primary need for religion has always been fear of pain and death. I will disgree with Mike on the net benefit of religion, specially in the 21st century...
Here's another quote:
"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." Richard Feynman
and another by a well known philosopher:
"Your're asking me who to follow. You're asking me who is right. Don't ask me. I don't know!" O. Osbourne
mikechannon said:
All of us have faith in some form or other. An atheist scientist has faith that science will produce all the answers (though there is no proof of that). In fact many scientists acknowledge that most theories (even once proven) are only true until another theory come along to show the first one wasn't quite right or did not apply in all situations.
Given virtually every civilisation that has ever existed has had some deity or other then scientifically speaking there must be a human need to have "faith". Furthermore, given nature preserves through the generations, only those things that aid survival, then faith must have a net benefit to survival rather as opposed to not having "faith".
Perhaps it is that humans, because they can think ahead, have a need to know that there is some overall purpose/reason for things. In other words that life is not just some purely accidental /random fluke of nature. Even if "faith" is a delusion therefore, it nevertheless prevents the alternative which would be a belief in the utter pointlessness of everything.
Mike
PS. This thread will only last as long as there is no discussion of specific religions. We all realise (or should do!) the sensitivities involved if we get into commenting on or arguing about peoples religious beliefs. For as long as there is respect perhaps there can be an academic chat. It may be that another Mod will close this thread as a religious debate and not appropriate even in off-topic.
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Thank you for a thoughtful response. I quite enjoyed reading it. As a follower of the scientific method, I can assure you that we will never find all the answers. Because we are so limited.
The last part (PS.->) I can somewhat agree with, but for peace sake only.
What religious person can claim rights over the religion they are part of? I find that offensive. (EDIT: in general life)
I grew up with a religion that I feel I have all the right to say and mean anything about. It's part of me, even though I don't believe in it.
I understand that there is a time and place for everything
I am of the view that religion (of any stripe) is a parasite on the humankind, taking advantage of our weaknesses and exploiting our strengths. Science is the antidote.
If there are any advantages they are incidental.
Surur
surur said:
I am of the view that religion (of any stripe) is a parasite on the humankind, taking advantage of our weaknesses and exploiting our strengths. Science is the antidote.
If there are any advantages they are incidental.
Surur
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The development of ethics and moral values that glues the societies together (even though the morals or ethics may be absurd) can have a very positive and stable effect on the way people interact.
Security. False in a bigger sense, true for the individual.
Other than that, with a grain of salt, I agree.
But I believe that humans are a parasite on the earth. And to be a parasite is not just a negative thing. We are what we are. All events has made us this way, and more will make us change or dissappear in time.
rhov23 said:
The development of ethics and moral values that glues the societies together (even though the morals or ethics may be absurd) can have a very positive and stable effect on the way people interact.
Security. False in a bigger sense, true for the individual.
Other than that, with a grain of salt, I agree.
But I also believe that humans are a parasite on the earth (hehe)
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Who says morals and ethics are tied to religion. They seem to arise from simple game theory - do onto others as you would have done to you did not need Jesus to say it.
Surur
surur said:
Who says morals and ethics are tied to religion. They seem to arise from simple game theory - do onto others as you would have done to you did not need Jesus to say it.
Surur
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I didn't say it was only tied to religion. Religion is made by people, and morals/ethics are therefor made by people. Religion is a way to get a social structure, control the masses, make them believe and behave.
Let's have a quote:
Religion is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx. And don't you DARE call me a communist
mikechannon said:
Well at one level I can agree. If by religion we mean that thing that is used as a reason to fight wars, or religion used by governments to control people.
However I don't agree if we mean religion as the thing that is about wanting to know the answers, particularly to the "big" questions. Or religion as the thing that gives comfort in times of stress etc.
That seems to me the biggest problem in talking about such matters. We would have to spend hours defining what bit or slant on religion we are taliking about.
I actually quite like fzzyrn's concept of believing in a God which is not necessarily the same as any other person believes in and not part of any mainstream religion. You see often I think when you hear scientists talking about the big unknowns and then hear religious leaders talking about the meaning of God it is quite easy to detect a lot of similar thinking between the two. Just for example religious people tend to talk about religion giving people generally and as individuals "a purpose". Just the other day I heard a scientist at the Hadron Collider talking about how discovery of fundamental particles would help us to see "the purpose" of life.
The quest it seems to me is the same and even the language can be the same. History actually shows that religions have lead the way in scientific research. It is only in recent times that science and religion have been seen as conflicting rather than opposite sides of the same coin.
Mike
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I agree with you, but not on the last part.
The large religions, change when they must, not when they should. And only when it comes to hard facts, like the earth rotates around the sun etc.
The fact is that religion changes only for selfpreservation, and not by logic. And what monster do we get then?
rhov23 said:
Religion is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx. And don't you DARE call me a communist
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There are legitimate uses of opiates that benefit everyone that is involved... banning them completely, because of specific types of abuses, would be a foolish move.
The same is true of religion.
psionandy said:
There are legitimate uses of opiates that benefit everyone that is involved... banning them completely, because of specific types of abuses, would be a foolish move.
The same is true of religion.
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Druggie!
Just kidding. Good point, but I never said that I was for a ban. I just want to tell those that are smart enough, that everything around us is connected.
You can't run cars on prayer. Or will someone prove me wrong?
can a free thinker leaning on atheism report in? lol
Baronic said:
can a free thinker leaning on atheism report in? lol
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Hi, welcome. You are now ready to be brainwashed. Please follow my directions closely, and send me $100.
No, really. If you don't send money you will die from old age!
Some quotes I've picked up. Sorry I have previously deleted most of the speakers/writers names-
Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.^Voltaire
But that a camel-merchant should stir up insurrection in his village; that in league with some miserable followers he persuades them that he talks with the angel Gabriel; that he boasts of having been carried to heaven, where he received in part this unintelligible book, each page of which makes common sense shudder; that, to pay homage to this book, he delivers his country to iron and flame; that he cuts the throats of fathers and kidnaps daughters; that he gives to the defeated the choice of his religion or death: this is assuredly nothing any man can excuse, at least if he was not born a Turk, or if superstition has not extinguished all natural light in him.
If God has made us in his image, we have returned him the favor
To pray to God is to flatter oneself that with words one can alter nature.
It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence.
God created sex. Priests created marriage.
God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God.
Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.
If the ignorance of nature gave birth to Gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.
If we look back at the begining we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them; and that custom, respect and tyranny support them, in order to make the blindness of man serve their own interest.
Opinions have caused more ills than the plague or earthquakes on this little globe of ours.^Voltaire
They condemn what they do not understand.
The devil's greatest trick was convincing the world that God exists.
The best defense against logic is ignorance.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
. . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!
Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience
Reason is the antonym of Religion
Reason should be destroyed in all Christians^Martin Luther
Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived^Oscar Wilde
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unitelligible propositions.
God "fashioned hell for the inquisitive"^St Augustine
Ideas must be distinct before reason can be acted upon them.^Thomas Jefferson
The only victimless crime is blasphemy
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about
If there were no God, there would be no Atheists.
dane cook anyone....
the bible is going to get printed on you!!!!!!!!
hy
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
MAZAR SCIENTIST said:
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
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No God = No Devil
No Supernatural Defender = No Supernatural Attacker
MAZAR SCIENTIST said:
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
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The Prophets, too, among us come to teach,
Are one with those who from the pulpit preach;
They pray, and slay, and pass away, and yet
Our ills are as the pebbles on the beach.
- Al-Ma'arri, أبو العلاء أحمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان التنوخي المعري
I hope you get well soon.
I hope this is okay mods/admins, if not, please trash.
I was going to add it to apost in a thread, but thought it would make people post just to share their remarks.
and i figured since this is the off-topic area that it'd be ok.
but I got the number sent to me in a text
that's in the quote i'm about to paste in here,
you can call to vote,
or go to the website to learn more about it.
i know some smokers on this site,
so i thought i'd post for all the other US smokers.
this is kinda my point of view in the quote
as i just posted it as a bulletin on my myspace.
so please don't get offended,
it's my oppinnion,
and we're all entitled to our opinnions,
and feel free to state yours,
but please do not fight over this topic,
as i know it can be controversial at times.
thanks, and here's the quote:
http://criminaljustice.change.org/actions/view/legalize_marijuana
to vote for the step towards legalization,
or call to vote: 9734093274
its a new jersey number.
It's bound tohappen sooner or later.
I'm for the industrial kind's legalization more so then the kind you smoke.
The industrial kind is what they used for the original constitution, rope, etc.
its usuable for like over 260,000 different genre's of products.
not 260,000 products, but genre's of products,
What I mean is, for example a sidekick is a product, a cell phone is the genre.
catch my drift, it's extremely useful.
and that's not the so called health stuff associated with it.
the industrial kind can be grown on 98% of the earth's surface.
the 2% that it cannot is at the north and south poles, but if you found dirt there,
it could grow.
it's estimated that one year cultivation/sale of the industrial kind can bring the United States completely out of debt and pay for almost all of the government bailouts. thats hundreds of trillions of dollars for out debt, and add hundred billions more for the bail outs.
that's a **** ton of money.
and that's not even the drug aspect of marijuana.
which would prolly make enough money for the rest of the government bailouts that the industrial kind couldn't pay off.
now should we american's be spending hundred of billions of dollars trying to fight marijuana each year, or should we embrace it and make money off of it?
also, fun fact, marijuana is illegal because of thc, but then why is Marinol legal even though it's synthetic THC? Gee, I wonder if it's because they can't control the growing of a natural plant....
Besides, isn't this america? here it's all about capitalism. so why shouldn't we capitalize on this product and make our country ****in ridiculously rich and then we can afford to help the nations in poverty and afford to keep everyone in america fed as well.
doesn't this just sound like such a better thing then spending billions of dollars on fighting this every year?
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Cotton
American people made too much money raping Africans and forcing them to pick cotton.
Hemp could have stopped that industry before it even started and lots of Rich people would potentially not be rich now......
I wonder how many household brand companies still exist that actually rose to positions of power during those times through the use of slavery. The mind boggles.!.
History is the biggest teacher and I think it will be a long time before people can look back and unravel (without any form of biased prejudice or some sort of adjenda) the reasons behind the criminalisation of Hemp and the pushing of tobbaco - alcohol and other taxable substances that cannot be grown perfectly and easily in your garden with a minimum of fuss. In the right environment, most people could grow a banging plant with polenty of smoke potential in their own gardens.
Life is hard, but could be so much better and easier if we all grew veggies and hemp.
The lure of the city and capitalism is starting to fade now, hopefully with more education and time people will understand that its better to grow natural food and weed than get on a commute everyday and take Ritalin.
No one else makes money if you stay in your community and become self sufficient though!!
If all people wanted was - Healthy food, excercise, good sex and a bit of chiung smoke for treat. The world would be a much better place.
Sadly, its much more socially acceptable to drink 5 pints of lager and start a fight that to smoke a big one and mong out. Sadly its more acceptable to go to war with another country than to back down and make a peaceful approach to every situation.
I dont think that big industry is the answer CodyBear. In fact, money is not the answer. Money is a representation of non critical resources. What do you need to live? Food, water and shelter. What is money? Oil and stones/gold etc........? I dont actually know what resources money represents now days.....How can my £10 note represent anything when our government is in so much debt to the Fund?
(same for USA -except its in much more debt)
I seriously dont share a vision of the future where every one works in a big factory. I desperately search for a vision of the future where communities are self contained and completely self suffiecient, clean and green
Ho-hum I am not holding my breath - not until I win the euro lottery and buy my own island!!
This is waayy off-topic, This is a still a phone forum.
Legal & political discussions just stir up bad feelings. If you want to discuss this I think you'd be better in a another forum
Thread Closed
Dave
I didn't see a post for this elsewhere (though some may recall that I have an exceptional ability to miss the obvious ), and you will not hear about this on the news, and it's barely even being covered in print or online. I'm usually too much of a cynic to bother with this sort of activism but this is a big deal, so please grant me 5 minutes of your time; you won't regret it.
The big deal? The "Stop Online Piracy Act" (SOPA). Well wait now, that doesn't sound so bad. We all download music for free here and there, maybe use an "extended trial" of Photoshop, but we know that piracy is technically stealing...so this can't be that bad, right? Wrong. Horribly wrong.
The fact that no news agency is covering this is absolutely insane. We criticize countries like China and Iran for censorship, but at least they don't attempt to conceal it within a vague anti-piracy bill. It is no exaggeration to say that this is one of the most significant bills to come through congress in the past decade, and most people don't even know it exists; much less that discussion began on it today. Of those that do know about it, half of them don't understand why it's a bad thing because H.R.3261 has such an innocuous name (it is also called the Protect IP Act of 2011 in the Senate). Don't be fooled.
"American Censorship Day" - Information on the Internet Blacklist BillsI urge you to take the time to educate yourself on H.R.3261 "SOPA" and write and/or call your Senators and Congress(wo)men! I guarantee if you spend 10 minutes reading about this, you will understand why I'm using an annoyingly large, bright red font.
The Wikipedia Article has a brief section ("Supporters") that shows--in a nutshell--how some politicians are deceptively framing this as a "pro-jobs" bill, among other pleasant sounding things; this couldn't be further from the truth. This is, in a manner of speaking, trying to apply archaic copyright laws to a 21st century Internet, rather than taking the effort to rewrite the copyright laws to make sense in the modern world.
You can find a lot of information explained very well at "American Censorship Day" website (scroll down past the petition), and I would encourage you to do your own research as well. Sign the petition if you want, but really, it is considerably more effective to call or write (or both!) your representatives.
A few more good links:
"Contacting The Congress" - Easily lookup the names/contact information of your Reps/Senators.
SOPA Wikipedia Article - References - These references link to a variety of websites/articles that are both for and against this bill. I would like to personally point out how most of those in support are entities of a political nature, while those against are largely non-political technology-oriented entities.
Full Text of H.R.3261 [PDF] - A relatively "short" 78 pages.
Hearing Information - House Judiciary Committee - This bill is on "the fastrack," meaning its authors are trying to push it through as quickly as possible...This hearing is where the bill began it's journey today (11/16/11).
I thank you for taking the time to read this; if you choose to reply to this thread, bash me as much as you like, but please keep your responses to each other civil.
Alright, back to rooting my Revo (before doing so is a felony ).
Sincerely,
James
Good stuff the masses don't even realize how important this is
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Basically when this bill passes we have no freedom of speech on the internets. The US government can block websites hosted on servers outside it's borders. And you can get sued for having a song playing on the radio heard in your video posted online.
jaszek said:
Basically when this bill passes we have no freedom of speech on the internets. The US government can block websites hosted on servers outside it's borders. And you can get sued for having a song playing on the radio heard in your video posted online.
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This is ridiculous we must stop them!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Must stop big brother government before it's too late!
Its getting near time for the guns to come out boys...
Brb, there are strange men in suits at my door....
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Great Job was about to post something about this on here but you beat me to it anyway here are some more links to articles,info and petitions:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-segal/stop-the-internet-blackli_b_739836.html
*
http://americancensorship.org/
http://demandprogress.org/blacklist/*
http://demandprogress.org/blacklist/?referring_akid=a2655379.916925._mXAo4&source=auto-taf
P.S keep spreading the word guys!
I think XDA should censor their logo/ and or have the javascript popup to support it http://americancensorship.org/
I have done it to my website for support purposes. come on guys we need this to be halted! So if you have a website/ blog please join the movement and censor your website for a day!
I guess this is the day when we finally found out for sure that govenments can be bought and paid for by greedy corporations.
You are now no longer being ruled by an elected body, but by a fat-cat in a pin-stripe suit.
This is the new world order i guess.
Very well written. I know quite a bit about this topic, since we will get something called "vorratsdatenspeicherung" where I live (austria). Basically The government logs your internet connection and it logs when and who you call/write a sms/ send an email and where you were by doing that.
Should be published on the portal!
I do what i want, because I can.
THIS IS CRAZY
This has to be one of those interpretation of the law issues though surely? I mean... you can't be prosecuted for lying on a dating profile about your height, weight, age etc. There'd be nobody left on match.com
Mykocorum said:
This has to be one of those interpretation of the law issues though surely? I mean... you can't be prosecuted for lying on a dating profile about your height, weight, age etc. There'd be nobody left on match.com
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The way the law is written does allow for scenarios like the one you propose. The retort of the politicians is, "We won't ever (ab)use this power for doing stuff like that, never ever." I don't know about you, but that's not too reassuring for me. If it's not abused now by these politicians, it'll be abused later by future politicians. Not to mention the precedent it sets...Once you give the government a little bit of control, it becomes very easy for them to get a lot of control.
Even if this were solely an interpretation of the law issue I'd still be against it, because Congress shouldn't be writing laws that can be so easily misinterpreted.
A link to the full text is up there, I plan on reading it tomorrow.
I totally agree the law should be written so that there is no room for interpretation.. you know if what you are doing is illegal from day one, ignorance is not a defence, but as devils advocate the counter is that you end up with thousands of very specific laws for hundreds of situations whilst occurrences the lawmakers didn't think of at the time are getting through loopholes and running away.
Circumstantially you should really be able to use the end purpose of why you are doing what you are doing as to the criminality of what's going down. I don't think anyone on this board would argue that a 40 year old man pretending to be a 13 year old girl on a forum or website to talk to other teenagers should be made illegal and is a very wrong thing - but who hasn't said they are two inches taller on a dating profile or put their build down as "athletic" rather than "a few extra pounds"
Bear in mind that the UK equivalent to this, the 'Digital Economy Act' was passed into law some time ago with barely a whimper of protest. Just like ProtectIP, it was kept quiet and barely reported on until it was too late. We just woke up one morning to draconian new laws. Again, it was bought and paid for by big media.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Economy_Act_2010
I doubt anything can be done to stop the same happening in the US, but perhaps enough pressure can be brought to bear to force some changes to the act. At least you guys have advanced warning to do something about it.
Edit: Big Content stacks Senate Committee
"US Senators have done their level best to give Big Content the law it wants to basically lock up citizens who might think of piracy or file sharing without having to worry about that pesky thing called constitution. The House Judiciary Committee today held an important hearing on the Stop Online Piracy Act but only those witnesses who would not object to the law being invited. This was designed to give the impression that all the witnesses were in favour of the law."
Bump this baby. Also voted for frontpage!
I do what i want, because I can.
DirkGently said:
Bear in mind that the UK equivalent to this, the 'Digital Economy Act' was passed into law some time ago with barely a whimper of protest. Just like ProtectIP, it was kept quiet and barely reported on until it was too late. We just woke up one morning to draconian new laws. Again, it was bought and paid for by big media.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Economy_Act_2010
I doubt anything can be done to stop the same happening in the US, but perhaps enough pressure can be brought to bear to force some changes to the act. At least you guys have advanced warning to do something about it.
Edit: Big Content stacks Senate Committee
"US Senators have done their level best to give Big Content the law it wants to basically lock up citizens who might think of piracy or file sharing without having to worry about that pesky thing called constitution. The House Judiciary Committee today held an important hearing on the Stop Online Piracy Act but only those witnesses who would not object to the law being invited. This was designed to give the impression that all the witnesses were in favour of the law."
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Thanks for posting this...It's absolutely crazy...I'm sure they'll find a way to completely circumvent a public hearing that gives opponents a chance to speak throughout the entire process.
jamRwoo said:
Thanks for posting this...It's absolutely crazy...I'm sure they'll find a way to completely circumvent a public hearing that gives opponents a chance to speak throughout the entire process.
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As always, the people can have a say.. at the ballot box!
I'm pleased to report that the government that introduced the DEA in the UK, lost in the next election shortly afterwards. (After being in power for thirteen years).
Karma b*tches!
Bumping this due to some developments...
Well, this is finally seeing the light of day and getting coverage by some news agencies; caught these articles on Drudge Report.
I just want to say that I hope Chris Dodd dies in a fire. Slowly. FYI: He's a former Senator spearheading this bill AND the new head of the MPAA. Primarily by attempting to bribe members of Congress. Gotta love that the Hollywood/Record Label lobbyists are getting all the airtime, while the people who actually understand this stuff are being silenced as much as possible.
Not too late to call/write your representatives. You can also share these links with your friends...tweet them, facebook them, reddit them, do whatever. If these links don't scare the living s**t out of you, well...idk...too many benzos perhaps. Feel free to copy this post and use it wherever, if you wish.
All of these articles are great and cover a different aspect (with some overlap) of the consequences of this legislation. Props to The Hill for giving this so much coverage; glad someone's doing it.
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MPAA Head Chris Dodd on Online Censorship Bill: China's the Model -- http://bit.ly/u7kgXy
"When the Chinese told Google that they had to block sites or they couldn't do [business] in their country, they managed to figure out how to block sites."
Google chairman says online piracy bill would 'criminalize' the Internet -- http://bit.ly/tRWEnj
"It's not a good thing. I understand the goal of what SOPA and PIPA are trying to do," Schmidt said of the Senate counterpart bill, the Protect IP Act. "Their goal is reasonable, their mechanism is terrible. They should not criminalize the intermediaries. They should go after the people that are violating the law."
Internet piracy bill: A free speech 'kill switch' -- http://bit.ly/tY6o6f
Consider this: Under the proposed legislation all that’s required for government to shutdown a specific website is the mere accusation that the site unlawfully featured copyrighted content. Such an accusation need not be proven – or even accompanied by probable cause. All that an accuser (or competitor) needs to do in order to obtain injunctive relief is point the finger at a website.
Legal expert says online piracy bill is unconstitutional -- http://bit.ly/tNBUDH
"Conceivably, an entire website containing tens of thousands of pages could be targeted if only a single page were accused of infringement," Tribe writes. "Such an approach would create severe practical problems for sites with substantial user-generated content, such as Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube, and for blogs that allow users to post videos, photos, and other materials."
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God, do I hate politicians.
P.S. For those interested in a more detailed analysis of how this is a flagrant violation of free speech: Laurence Tribe, a Harvard law professor and Supreme Court advocate, wrote a memo detailing how SOPA does exactly that -- http://scr.bi/sFSRBg
Closed:
XDA Forum Rules said:
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
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http://rt.com/news/apple-patent-transmission-block-408/
It's super lame they are going to do this.
the company says the affected sites are to be mostly cinemas, theaters, concert grounds and similar locations
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Who the hell records movies on their phones? Now if I see something at a theater I want a picture of I cant have it just because my phone will think I might be in a movie viewing area? What about all the theaters in malls? No taking pictures in malls because there is a movie theater?!
And concert grounds? They really think they have the right to take our devices capabilities away from us during festivals? Hell I take more pics at festivals than I do any other time!! This pisses me off really bad, its the first step towards the government having total control over all our devices and when we can do what with them. I really thought about putting the swear filter to the test for this post. I am disappoint.
Can't see this going down with the general public....seriously bad move by Apple if it goes ahead....which is good news for android!
slaphead20 said:
which is good news for android!
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I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
WiredPirate said:
I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
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But if Apple has a patent on it?!
WiredPirate said:
I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
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Even if it winds up required (which it wont) there's only one contender with custom Roms that can remove it. I can't seem to remember who though
slaphead20 said:
But if Apple has a patent on it?!
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lol, that would be best for everybody.. Unless it becomes required and manufacturers have to pay Apple to use it by law.
WiredPirate said:
lol, that would be best for everybody.. Unless it becomes required and manufacturers have to pay Apple to use it by law.
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well if you read the article Apple has indeed patented it, and Samsung aren't going to copy that one if they even the slightest bit of common sense
I just read the article and it's coming across as all kinds of morally disgusting. Imagine police brutality that nobody can record on their phones? Or if nobody could record the pepper spray cop walking around paper spraying students? I am not much for conspiracies but this is setting all kinds of bells off.
063_XOBX said:
I just read the article and it's coming across as all kinds of morally disgusting. Imagine police brutality that nobody can record on their phones? Or if nobody could record the pepper spray cop walking around paper spraying students? I am not much for conspiracies but this is setting all kinds of bells off.
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Several states do not want you recording the police, I think some have passed laws against it already.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
WiredPirate said:
Several states do not want you recording the police, I think some have passed laws against it already.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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Illegal or not if I felt my rights were being violated, I would do anything in my power to record what transpired. If a company worked with police to prevent me from doing that then they obviously don't want my money.
063_XOBX said:
Illegal or not if I felt my rights were being violated, I would do anything in my power to record what transpired.
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I agree, and I would too. But the government holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force, so your going to get your ass whooped or be locked up for taking that picture. Plus the police will just confiscate your device, so better have it uploading in the background or you will never be able to prove it. And even if you do have the pics they will not be usable in court if the law says you cant take the pics.
Craziness. Also one little tweak for hackers to get their hands on and wreak havoc on iOS users. If it's on the phone it's in the code and in theory anyone with the right knowledge could take advantage of it.
MissionImprobable said:
Craziness. Also one little tweak for hackers to get their hands on and wreak havoc on iOS users. If it's on the phone it's in the code and in theory anyone with the right knowledge could take advantage of it.
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I hadn't even thought about that. Hahaha, sucks for them.
WiredPirate said:
I agree, and I would too. But the government holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force, so your going to get your ass whooped or be locked up for taking that picture. Plus the police will just confiscate your device, so better have it uploading in the background or you will never be able to prove it. And even if you do have the pics they will not be usable in court if the law says you cant take the pics.
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It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
063_XOBX said:
It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
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Agreed, I hope it doesn't come to that though.
This just in, this just in: Apple sucks! Back to you, Jan.
063_XOBX said:
It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
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And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
got556 said:
And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
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:good:
got556 said:
And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
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I would never make an unfounded claim about the Police, especially not one about Police brutality. I believe that like all people (they're only human) they are mostly good. However if for even a second I believe that my rights are being encroached upon I will not hesitate to use any resource I can, media included, to bring it to light. Most "controversies" are a bunch of hype and not having all the facts, but if even 1/10th of a percent are real they need to be brought to light. Any time a person is given elevated authority over another there needs to be some kind of check to keep them in line. The media isn't perfect, but it's the closest thing we have to a semblance of something that "watches those who watch over us".
Ok. One of the points I meant by this WHOLE thread was NOT about how you can improve iOS or iPhone. Frankly there are way too many people who already postulated that on the whole of XDA and the interwebs.
I want to encourage people replying to this thread to put on their thinking caps, and think of what sort of futuristic product they can think of that may very well be a potential innovation from Apple. Not a phone, nor an iPad, nothing about iOS. Break free from that shackle. Steve always said that there is no way you can make a great product buy surveying the market and asking them what they want as consumers never know what they want until they see it and so you should think what will be the next revolution....
Soooooooooo...
The idea of this thread is this: (which got lost due to my frankly poor OP)
What would you say the next innovation is.
(P.S: I mention Apple in this thread a lot because traditionally they really where the pioneers of most major trends in electronics - Mac for GUI, then iPods then the in thing - smartphones with great GUI).
Soooooo, commence the scuffle!
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Original OP (which was badly written and distracted from my main idea) can be found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31513203&postcount=14
Actually Apple is doing very well for itself right now. It might backfire in the future but for now they are raking in money.
lol @ some random dude on xda saying he could run the most profitable company in the history of this planet better than they could. Man if they'd only found you sooner...
apple is the most valuable stock in NSE,
so its feeding off the rich isheeps
veeman said:
Actually Apple is doing very well for itself right now. It might backfire in the future but for now they are raking in money.
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The point is not that Apple is making losses now. The point was not really about profits. The point was making innovative products that they used to do on a regular basis (iPods, then the iPod nano when they first came) and then the iPhone/iTouch. But now they are just not innovating - either by making cool new products Or improving the existent one.
So, what would u do to give us the "wow" factor from Apple. The resounding wow that everyone said when the iPhone debuted. What would that be?
litetaker said:
The point is not that Apple is making losses now. The point was not really about profits. The point was making innovative products that they used to do on a regular basis (iPods, then the iPod nano when they first came) and then the iPhone/iTouch. But now they are just not innovating - either by making cool new products Or improving the existent one.
So, what would u do to give us the "wow" factor from Apple. The resounding wow that everyone said when the iPhone debuted. What would that be?
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wow = overpriced gadget + mass media advertising + huge battalion of rich dumbas*es
orangekid said:
lol @ some random dude on xda saying he could run the most profitable company in the history of this planet better than they could. Man if they'd only found you sooner...
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Steve Jobs when he first started off, was really into making products that "wow" people. He was also very business minded but still he did heavy investment and caused smaller profits because he spent a lot of time, effort and money on innovation. Same thing at the company "Next". I know I can't make Apple make MORE money than it does now, on its current line up. I am not a marketing or business guru...
I think you fail to see the point I make, oh good sir. What I am saying is Apple lost all innovation and is now purely gaining success on past success and marketing things to people.
And I claim I can and probably you can come up with "better" innovations than Apple does.
And so my question remains: What will you do at Apple as a CEO/Chief Designer that makes us WOW.
Because, if you feel "wow-ed" by Apple's current products, you probably have set a very (keyword: "very") low bar.
litetaker said:
Steve Jobs when he first started off, was really into making products that "wow" people. He was also very business minded but still he did heavy investment and caused smaller profits because he spent a lot of time, effort and money on innovation. Same thing at the company "Next". I know I can't make Apple make MORE money than it does now, on its current line up. I am not a marketing or business guru...
I think you fail to see the point I make, oh good sir. What I am saying is Apple lost all innovation and is now purely gaining success on past success and marketing things to people.
And I claim I can and probably you can come up with "better" innovations than Apple does.
And so my question remains: What will you do at Apple as a CEO/Chief Designer that makes us WOW.
Because, if you feel "wow-ed" by Apple's current products, you probably have set a very (keyword: "very") low bar.
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That doesn't make any sense. You are saying that if you ran this specific corporation you would not be in it for profit but you would basically just have crazy R&D going to "innovate"
You don't need a corporation or a logo or to run someone else's company for that, you just need money.
Your title is misleading, this is basically just "If you had 20 billion dollars in capital, what would you spend it on as far as R&D goes without trying to attain the most profit but just to be 'innovative'?"
In which case I would say Google Glass is basically what I'd be into, like set up a full AR network as picture in the awesome as hell sci fi book 'Daemon" by Daniel Suarez, and integrate that into your cell phone/communications and stuff.
And as to your claim that you can "run Apple better than Apple does" what you're actually saying is "In my opinion if I had all that capital made from not being original except maybe the very first iteration of the iPhone, I would spend it all not on what has made profit for me but on in what my opinion would be more "innovative" than what I consider the latest rendering of the iPhone to be"
It's the most arbitrary and subjective statement ever. I could just as easily say "If I ran McDonald's I would introduce hormone free big beef patties and sugar free buns because that is much better for you and not just about cheap profit like the current management, like the old days when it was about making burgers, not money"
i mean you could say that about any aspect of any company. Bottom line is you would probably run that company into the ground within 2 years.
orangekid said:
That doesn't make any sense. You are saying that if you ran this specific corporation you would not be in it for profit but you would basically just have crazy R&D going to "innovate"
You don't need a corporation or a logo or to run someone else's company for that, you just need money.
Your title is misleading, this is basically just "If you had 20 billion dollars in capital, what would you spend it on as far as R&D goes without trying to attain the most profit but just to be 'innovative'?"
In which case I would say Google Glass is basically what I'd be into, like set up a full AR network as picture in the awesome as hell sci fi book 'Daemon" by Daniel Suarez, and integrate that into your cell phone/communications and stuff.
And as to your claim that you can "run Apple better than Apple does" what you're actually saying is "In my opinion if I had all that capital made from not being original except maybe the very first iteration of the iPhone, I would spend it all not on what has made profit for me but on in what my opinion would be more "innovative" than what I consider the latest rendering of the iPhone to be"
It's the most arbitrary and subjective statement ever. I could just as easily say "If I ran McDonald's I would introduce hormone free big beef patties and sugar free buns because that is much better for you and not just about cheap profit like the current management, like the old days when it was about making burgers, not money"
i mean you could say that about any aspect of any company. Bottom line is you would probably run that company into the ground within 2 years.
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You are making hasty conclusions and clubbing different sentences of mine out of context! Oh my gawd! How is it difficult for people to understand the following simple point I am making!?
Let me break it down for you, Internet style:
1) Do you think Apple is making the best and most innovative product every year?
A) NO.
2) Why?
A) Clearly there isn't one feature on iPhone 5 that isn't already there elsewhere. They just caught up with others. No innovation, and I am a sad panda.
3) Do you think spending some money in a multibillion dollar company for innovation is a good idea?
A) Yes. It will help differentiate their product and add value to it so people find it worth buying.
4) Do you think that will reduce profits?
A) In the long term definitely not. In the short term, may be but given the size of the company it is clearly worth investing for R&D.
5) Did other companies make interesting innovations THAT APPLE hasn't made?
A) Hell yes.
And (5) is my point people! Stop blindly trying to defend a corporation you like and just hear me out once. All I am saying is, and I bet you will agree, is that Apple didn't improve upon their OS/product in certain aspects thereby leading to not the best of the breed. I agree it is subjective, but still it is probably agreeable to a lot. The whole UI is still the same as before. They use a single button to accomplish 10 different things. Press the button one way and you get the homescreen, another way and you get access to task manager, another way and voice control. that is not particularly a fun thing to do. And then the homescreen is near useless for productivity.
For the first few generations of iOS, they were fine. But as the OS refines, it should try to change some of the ailing aspects of it. But they aren't doing that. And I bet even people like you and me can come up with those things. Most improvements to iOS that were "cool" came from the Jailbreak community (the stuff on the lockscreen giving info about various things - they hired a Jailbreaker to code it into iOS)
So, give me a break when you defend a company. When an ordinary developer on XDA or elsewhere can themselves come up with an idea that seems obvious (I mean, right from day one I was frustrated that my iPod touch did nothing on the homescreen other than just show me a wallpaper) I think I have justified what I mean by even I can do better than Apple.
It is a figure of speech, damnit! Why don't you see that and take it at face value and instead think of me as arrogant. I am just a frustrated ex-iOS user who understands both sides and kinda hates seeing Apple dig its own grave, slowly.... Marketing can take you only so far when people realize that they aren't getting what they want from their phone... and of course, there are iSheep as well... anyway point made. See y'all!
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Side note: So as a consumer, you rather have a company MAKE the MOST profit out of you rather than they innovate? Are you telling me you are a billionaire and you wish for these greedy corporations to take more of your hard-earned money and rip you off more easily? Doesn't sound look good advice to me.
litetaker said:
You are making hasty conclusions and clubbing different sentences of mine out of context! Oh my gawd! How is it difficult for people to understand the following simple point I am making!?
Let me break it down for you, Internet style:
1) Do you think Apple is making the best and most innovative product every year?
A) NO.
2) Why?
A) Clearly there isn't one feature on iPhone 5 that isn't already there elsewhere. They just caught up with others. No innovation, and I am a sad panda.
3) Do you think spending some money in a multibillion dollar company for innovation is a good idea?
A) Yes. It will help differentiate their product and add value to it so people find it worth buying.
4) Do you think that will reduce profits?
A) In the long term definitely not. In the short term, may be but given the size of the company it is clearly worth investing for R&D.
5) Did other companies make interesting innovations THAT APPLE hasn't made?
A) Hell yes.
And (5) is my point people! Stop blindly trying to defend a corporation you like and just hear me out once. All I am saying is, and I bet you will agree, is that Apple didn't improve upon their OS/product in certain aspects thereby leading to not the best of the breed. I agree it is subjective, but still it is probably agreeable to a lot. The whole UI is still the same as before. They use a single button to accomplish 10 different things. Press the button one way and you get the homescreen, another way and you get access to task manager, another way and voice control. that is not particularly a fun thing to do. And then the homescreen is near useless for productivity.
For the first few generations of iOS, they were fine. But as the OS refines, it should try to change some of the ailing aspects of it. But they aren't doing that. And I bet even people like you and me can come up with those things. Most improvements to iOS that were "cool" came from the Jailbreak community (the stuff on the lockscreen giving info about various things - they hired a Jailbreaker to code it into iOS)
So, give me a break when you defend a company. When an ordinary developer on XDA or elsewhere can themselves come up with an idea that seems obvious (I mean, right from day one I was frustrated that my iPod touch did nothing on the homescreen other than just show me a wallpaper) I think I have justified what I mean by even I can do better than Apple.
It is a figure of speech, damnit! Why don't you see that and take it at face value and instead think of me as arrogant. I am just a frustrated ex-iOS user who understands both sides and kinda hates seeing Apple dig its own grave, slowly.... Marketing can take you only so far when people realize that they aren't getting what they want from their phone... and of course, there are iSheep as well... anyway point made. See y'all!
---------------
Side note: So as a consumer, you rather have a company MAKE the MOST profit out of you rather than they innovate? Are you telling me you are a billionaire and you wish for these greedy corporations to take more of your hard-earned money and rip you off more easily? Doesn't sound look good advice to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point is that from a business standpoint with that type of attitude you would run the company into the ground.
From an "innovative" standpoint those are your opinions on iOS, which mirror everyone who doesn't like iOS's opinions. We've heard it a million times from every user on these forums.
You disagree with how Apple is run, that's fine. But this is all arbitrary and subjective. There plenty of "intelligent" people who could provide a good argument for iOS 6 being better than JellyBean, starting with the malware ratio for one.
Every one of your questions/answers is arbitrary. That's why we have choices. Don't like iOS? buy Android. Don't like either? Buy WP8. Don't like one of those 3? Tough ****.
Let's go thru your checklist as an Apple fan would (you can see from my signature which phone I currently love to rock).
1) Yes, they always have the fastest CPU/GPU, the best battery life, the best DPI (except maybe a couple crazy ass Japanese phones), arguably the best camera only to be compared with PureView, and the best form factor.
2) Let's talk features. There was already no competitor for Siri on the 4S. S Voice utterly sucks and doesn't recognize what I say half the time. Google Now is kinda cool but doesn't talk back the same way as Siri does, now with iOS 6 update it takes it to a new level. The form factor is the best. Not cheap Samsung plastic, Aluminum + Glass on the back, squared form factor with a new elongated 4" screen that you can STILL easily hold and type with one hand. The A6 processor out benches even the new exynos quad core.
3) They have an R&D department...
4) If you spend too much on R&D and not enough on other things, then yes, you have to have the perfect balance like Apple.
5) Yes, just like Apple has made innovations that others haven't made. Hence choices...
You see, it can be argued either way.
Your opinion is that Apple isn't "innovative" same as most of the people on XDA, you're not bringing anything new to light. You're just saying you don't think Apple is "innovative"
That's fine, you can have your opinion, but that's all it is, opinion.
side note;
all of your side note is conjecture. You think Bill Gates and Eric Schmidt aren't in it for the money you are insane. But they also want to make cool **** I'm sure, just like Apple does.
orangekid said:
My point is that from a business standpoint with that type of attitude you would run the company into the ground.
From an "innovative" standpoint those are your opinions on iOS, which mirror everyone who doesn't like iOS's opinions. We've heard it a million times from every user on these forums.
You disagree with how Apple is run, that's fine. But this is all arbitrary and subjective. There plenty of "intelligent" people who could provide a good argument for iOS 6 being better than JellyBean, starting with the malware ratio for one.
Every one of your questions/answers is arbitrary. That's why we have choices. Don't like iOS? buy Android. Don't like either? Buy WP8. Don't like one of those 3? Tough ****.
Let's go thru your checklist as an Apple fan would (you can see from my signature which phone I currently love to rock).
1) Yes, they always have the fastest CPU/GPU, the best battery life, the best DPI (except maybe a couple crazy ass Japanese phones), arguably the best camera only to be compared with PureView, and the best form factor.
2) Let's talk features. There was already no competitor for Siri on the 4S. S Voice utterly sucks and doesn't recognize what I say half the time. Google Now is kinda cool but doesn't talk back the same way as Siri does, now with iOS 6 update it takes it to a new level. The form factor is the best. Not cheap Samsung plastic, Aluminum + Glass on the back, squared form factor with a new elongated 4" screen that you can STILL easily hold and type with one hand. The A6 processor out benches even the new exynos quad core.
3) They have an R&D department...
4) If you spend too much on R&D and not enough on other things, then yes, you have to have the perfect balance like Apple.
5) Yes, just like Apple has made innovations that others haven't made. Hence choices...
You see, it can be argued either way.
Your opinion is that Apple isn't "innovative" same as most of the people on XDA, you're not bringing anything new to light. You're just saying you don't think Apple is "innovative"
That's fine, you can have your opinion, but that's all it is, opinion.
side note;
all of your side note is conjecture. You think Bill Gates and Eric Schmidt aren't in it for the money you are insane. But they also want to make cool **** I'm sure, just like Apple does.
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Click to collapse
Alright, I can agree with you here. Hmm... anyway, I really should think of a better topic to discuss on off-topic @xda. I kinda suck at picking good and "fun" things to argue about. Not even 3 pages, and already the debate here became heavy and I guess will eventually become pointless. Anyway, good to hear ur points too... I'm off to cooking up more light-hearted and probably more fun topics!
Up and away!
I'm only going to dispute one thing with you: the HTC Rezound has a higher PPI than the iPhone, and it certainly isn't some crazy Chinese phone lol.
iPhone 5 = 326PPI
Rezound = 342PPI
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app.
litetaker said:
Alright, I can agree with you here. Hmm... anyway, I really should think of a better topic to discuss on off-topic @xda. I kinda suck at picking good and "fun" things to argue about. Not even 3 pages, and already the debate here became heavy and I guess will eventually become pointless. Anyway, good to hear ur points too... I'm off to cooking up more light-hearted and probably more fun topics!
Up and away!
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Click to collapse
lol, every thread in this forum is pointless, and I argue just to argue half the time. Your topic was fine, I kinda just ran in a totally other direction with it.
If you just opened a thread saying "if you had a bagillion dollars what would you develop?" without using buzzwords like "iPhone" you'd do fine.
SteveG12543 said:
I'm only going to dispute one thing with you: the HTC Rezound has a higher PPI than the iPhone, and it certainly isn't some crazy Chinese phone lol.
iPhone 5 = 326PPI
Rezound = 342PPI
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app.
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Click to collapse
Word. Forgot about the 4.3" 720p.
BUT I said Japanese, not Chinese. I win!!
Original crappy OP
The New OP was taken from this post. The original OP is here and the New OP from this post went to the OP making it the current OP
Well, it is a ballsy statement to say that one could run Apple better than someone experienced in the industry, especially since it is a multibillion dollar company. I say that smells.
Even I can run that company better and I have never, ever worked in an industry so far (unless you call interning at a company work experience).
It is not hard to see why. They are doing no innovation and 100% litigation. And all I see in their various products is upping the specs and prices and that's it. That is NOT innovation. It may be challenging to squeeze in more pixels in the same area, but guess WHAT. Apple didn't make that! It was hardworking other companies that manufacture better displays, better processors and chips that made that happen. Apple merely puts things together. In the light of this realization, we can clearly see that Apple did zilch, nada, शून्य, zéro, 零, нуль. No matter what language you speak, it will translate to "absolutely nothing". They did not improve the OS, just did minor tweaks or introduced features no one cares about (Siri, iMessages is a failure in implementation, facebook integration that I can do without, more facebook in my life != better life). Oh they added a new row of static and boring icons. If you see the jailbreak community, a good chunk of iOS users hate the interface and still stick with it. Beyond my understanding.
Oh, did I say absolutely nothing? My bad, I meant yes they did something alright - slow down an entire industry via litigation because "they couldn't come up with a new idea, boo-fricking-hoo!" It makes me think of the spoiled brat in the sandbox who fell down and wants to make others fall down too as he got hurt.
Side note: I never really thought Steve Jobs was involved in all the decisions made for the iPhone, but now it looks like he may have spear-headed the iPhone division after all. After he passed away, looks like the hard work he put in and the company he built is gonna die again (sad in some ways but also serves them right for bringing bad karma by suing Android and the Android device manufacturers).
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Click to collapse
Long story short, I want this thread to be innovative, wacky, weird and funny ideas for the following question:
What would you do differently, if you were the CEO of Apple?
Try to think without fanboy-ism. Imagine you were suddenly given control to this powerful corporation, you need no longer think about Android and all, so let your answer NOT be to destroy iOS and let Android win. Though that would be awesome. I want to see if we can come up with better products AND features in existing ones to warrant the name of this topic (which is we can run Apple better than Apple).
commence the scuffle!
orangekid said:
lol, every thread in this forum is pointless, and I argue just to argue half the time. Your topic was fine, I kinda just ran in a totally other direction with it.
If you just opened a thread saying "if you had a bagillion dollars what would you develop?" without using buzzwords like "iPhone" you'd do fine.
Word. Forgot about the 4.3" 720p.
BUT I said Japanese, not Chinese. I win!!
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Click to collapse
Well, frankly they are Taiwanese! Whoops, you lose again!
+1 for the शून्य thing!
This forum has been overrun with Apple/iOS/iPhone threads lately. For the Android fan boys some of you claim to be, you seem extremely obsessed with Apple. I am not talking about any one person or group, just in general. js
litetaker said:
Ok. One of the points I meant by this WHOLE thread was NOT about how you can improve iOS or iPhone. Frankly there are way too many people who already postulated that on the whole of XDA and the interwebs.
I want to encourage people replying to this thread to put on their thinking caps, and think of what sort of futuristic product they can think of that may very well be a potential innovation from Apple. Not a phone, nor an iPad, nothing about iOS. Break free from that shackle. Steve always said that there is no way you can make a great product buy surveying the market and asking them what they want as consumers never know what they want until they see it and so you should think what will be the next revolution....
Soooooooooo...
The idea of this thread is this: (which got lost due to my frankly poor OP)
What would you say the next innovation is.
(P.S: I mention Apple in this thread a lot because traditionally they really where the pioneers of most major trends in electronics - Mac for GUI, then iPods then the in thing - smartphones with great GUI).
Soooooo, commence the scuffle!
Well, frankly they are Taiwanese! Whoops, you lose again!
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Click to collapse
lol touche.
Well to answer you, I think Google Goggles used with AR in a sort of virtual world in plain site like that book Daemon would be pretty awesome.
is there a thread for "Why i hate android?" around here
deathnotice01 said:
is there a thread for "Why i hate android?" around here
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Yes..should be somewhere around iphone-developers.com!
Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2
first thing that needs to b done is make it open source
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app