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I believe Kaiser rely on the Qualcomm chip for GPS. How is the performance. People say good thing about the SIRF III chip. How is the Kaiser GPS compare to the SIRF III? Anyone know?
welll in most cases built in gps arnt as reliable as the actuall thing... they are off sometimes
I guess it may depend on what you want/need to do with GPS.
If I turn it on and run Google Maps, it shows me right in the middle of my house, and that's where I am. If I move from one end of my house to another, I again appear in the right place.
To use GPS do we require to have gprs or 3g data activated.
Or is like integrated FM Radion which doesnt require data connection.
No -- there is a GPS receiver built into the unit that sends NMEA 0183 data over a serial port. You'll probably need map software; any software that works with WM6 and a Bluetooth GPS should do the job (e.g. TomTom 6).
I use Googlemaps and TOMTOM 6 with no problem.
I need to mention that I am a current HTC Trinity owner, and if IF if IF if IF the Kaiser has the same A-GPS chip found in the trinity, then this is what we should expect (from my experience with the Trinity)
1- Initial fix time can take long (sometimes it takes 2 minutes, sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 10 minutes, and sometimes IT NEVER gets a fix and no GPS singal can be found)
2- Once the GPS get a fix, then it works perfectly and flawlessly.
So I only hope that the Kaiser will solve the initial fix problem.
Has it now "normal" GPS or the mobile Version AGPS
I guess you could upgrade your radio to 1.40+ and try again. They said there's a big improvement to GPS fix.
Talking about TTFF, if you are moving, or inside a building, I think it will take longer than usual to get a fix. I live in a really urban area, but once I stand still in an open area, I usually got fix in 2-3 minutes, without exception.
Someone did a test in the Trinity forum - the accuracy of the qualcomm chip is even better than that of the sirf-iii.
However, a major problem though is the lack of a software assisted gps problem that can improve the ttff time. (Though qualcomm said there's one, but until now it's still vapourware.)
ww2250 said:
I guess you could upgrade your radio to 1.40+ and try again. They said there's a big improvement to GPS fix.
Talking about TTFF, if you are moving, or inside a building, I think it will take longer than usual to get a fix. I live in a really urban area, but once I stand still in an open area, I usually got fix in 2-3 minutes, without exception.
Someone did a test in the Trinity forum - the accuracy of the qualcomm chip is even better than that of the sirf-iii.
However, a major problem though is the lack of a software assisted gps problem that can improve the ttff time. (Though qualcomm said there's one, but until now it's still vapourware.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also have the Trinity and can back up the above comments. I have a Sirf III device as well and apart from the Time To First Fix being quicker there is no noticeable difference between the two - both very accurate and don't lose their fixes.
TheEngineer0815 said:
Has it now "normal" GPS or the mobile Version AGPS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might find this interesting: http://mobilitysite.com/2007/08/assisted-gps/
Gordon
GordonTGopher said:
You might find this interesting: http://mobilitysite.com/2007/08/assisted-gps/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really interesting. The author of this article think that the Kaiser will have a Sirf-III. Now I think for the first time, we got a device with 2 GPS, a dedicated Sirf-III GPS chip together with a Qualcom integrated GPS.
I would imagine it will greatly increase the accuracy as well as the TTFF
Oh, wait, HTC might disable the Qualcom GPS, and just use the Sirf-III. See what they did to Hermes
Does anyone know how to start the gPS on the Kaiser - I bought one ...but don`t know how to start !
A lot of folks (myself included) have been wondering how good the GPS in the Kaiser is. Since I own something like 7 GPS units at last count, I decided to grab all the handheld ones and do a comparison
In the best highly subjective and unscientific manner, I let each GPS lock in my window where easily 12 satellites are visible, then after it had stabilized brought them in another 5-6 feet to where my oldest GPS had always been borderline. I used Mapopolis and TomTom on the PocketPCs to display how many satellites (birds) and what signal strength each of the connected GPS's was locking. The standalone units I put on their satellite display to get the same info.
I watched them all for close to an hour, fiddling with positioning, orientation, etc and derived a completely unscientific rating for each. Keeping and holding more satellites with higher signal strength yielded more points, and I arbitrarily set the best one at 10 points, then tried to rate the others relative to that. Note that this is only signal holding ability, not lock time or ease of lock, and it isn't tested MOVING where a GPS can really show (or show up) it's signal holding ability. With all that said, hopefully these are better than nothing and will give folks some idea of where the Kaiser falls in the spectrum of GPS performance.
In order from "worst" to "best", 'Unit - My Rating':
Garmin eTrex Vista - 3
Holux GM270 CompactFlash Card - 4
Garmin eTrex VistaC - 7
AT&T Tilt (Kaiser) - 8
GlobalSat BT-338 BlueTooth - 10
The SirfStarIII in the BT-338 blows away all the other GPS units - it consistently held no less than 9 of the 12 birds, and typically 11 or 12 - and all with fantastic signal strength. Based on my past experience, I can say this is an awesome unit for lock time, lock durability, etc, etc, etc so I was unsurprised that it was the best performer here.
The Tilt/Kaiser actually did surprisingly well, typically 1-3 birds less than the BT-338, noticeably weaker signal strength and a lot more hopping around - i.e. holding 9 birds, but a different 9 from moment to moment. Test was done with QuickGPS data having been downloaded a few days ago, but QuickGPS executable not running.
The VistaC was another surprise - I've owned the original Vista since not long after it came out, and recently got a used VistaC. A lot more hopping than the Kaiser, but consistently holding 6-8 birds for a good solid fix. I had always assumed the GPS circuitry was common across the eTrex line, but the newer VistaC was a LOT better than my old Vista.
I don't recall which chipset is in the Holux - I think it was SirfStarII. I was never thrilled with this GPS and often had to use an external antenna in the car to get decent lock durability, so I was not shocked to find it near the bottom of the list.
I loved my Vista so I didn't really realize how much GPS technology has improved - it'd be tough sell to recommend one of these to anyone today. Wonderful device, but the new Vista HCx is likely to blow it away.
Well, it was a fun little project and I hope someone evaluating the Kaiser will find their existing GPS on my list and get an idea of how the Kaiser may perform in comparison.
Richard
Nice review.
It would be nice to see a similar review of the devices while you are moving.
At this moment, Tilt's GPS is completely useless for geocaching and walking because there is not way of disabling static navigation as you can do with SirfStarIII's gps. Even if you got information from 8 satellites there are moments where you position will freeze and it won't update even if you are walking.
Tilt's GPS only really works when you are driving.
I did a similar test back when I got my Kaiser about 6 weeks ago, running it and my BT-338. Results were pretty much the same.
However, more recently, it's been harder for my Kaiser to get an initial fix indoors, even with fresh QuickGPS data. When the Kaiser was new, it would get a fix within 30 seconds running in my living room -- now it can take up to 30 minutes if it gets a fix at all. Outdoors, it still gets quick fixes -- 10 to 30 seconds.
Have a Eten M700 and Kaiser and have some comparison. For GPS reception, I would rate M700 with full mark 10 and kaiser 7. The GPS signal is unbelievably strong on M700 as it gets a patch antenna inside.
I modify my kaiser a little so that the screen can be tilt up to almost 90 degree, I can just leave it on the dashboard when using tomtom.
staryon said:
Nice review.
It would be nice to see a similar review of the devices while you are moving.
At this moment, Tilt's GPS is completely useless for geocaching and walking because there is not way of disabling static navigation as you can do with SirfStarIII's gps. Even if you got information from 8 satellites there are moments where you position will freeze and it won't update even if you are walking.
Tilt's GPS only really works when you are driving.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used kaiser's GPS for cycling and it has worked fine with "compegps" application!
pepeto2001 said:
I've used kaiser's GPS for cycling and it has worked fine with "compegps" application!
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Click to collapse
For that it should be fine. Usually you got this problem is your speed is below 1.2 m/s (3.2 miles per hour)
Modify Kaiser?
Tonychen,
How did you modify the Kaiser to tilt almost 90 degrees? This would be awesome as the 'tilt" is not enough for me to use it on the dashboard of either of my cars.
Can you provide any pics of the mod you did and explain how you did it?
Thanks.
This would void your warranty, unless you really want it. I can write a small guide here if you are still interested.
Check the photo attached.
tonychen said:
This would void your warranty, unless you really want it. I can write a small guide here if you are still interested.
Check the photo attached.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't mind a tuturial would be great.
tonychen said:
This would void your warranty, unless you really want it. I can write a small guide here if you are still interested.
Check the photo attached.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on with this small guide we are (at least me) interested...
BUMP.
Guide please.
juiceppc said:
BUMP.
Guide please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I really care, but you might do better PM'ing the guy who said he modded his rather than bumping a GPS thread and hoping he responds
Just my $0.02,
Richard
I would just like to comment that I have not experienced this lockup of the GPS while moving at slow speeds. I've played around with TomTom while walking down a city street and it seemed to track speed and direction just fine, not that it was particularly useful in this manner. It consistently tracked my speed at 1-2mph and has never had this locking up or pausing that I've read about in other threads. I've tested with the original AT&T rom and one of the Big Storage AT&T modified roms with no issues.
-James
Compared with a Garmin Vista Cx, it seems more sensitive - it can lock onto three or four birds in the centre of the ground floor of my house while the Garmin is hard pressed to get a full lock even on the top floor.
Looking at the pattern of locks on a GPS monitor program, I get the impression that it is a lot less than 12 channel - anyone seen a specification? My overall impression is that it's a useful feature for non-critical navigation, but I still carry my Garmin for the serious stuff. The combination of GPS and 3g is wonderful - open up Live Search and look for Fast Food near "Here" - yes, Garmins have a POI database built in, but it is very limited compared with the combined contents of MSN and Google!
Martin
Follow up : I am really beginning to be quite impressed by the sensitivity of this GPS. I went into London by train yesterday and switched the GPS on sitting in the middle of a crowded carriage. I got a five bird lock within a minute and retained it for the entire journey (apart from long tunnels, of course). On several occasions it was reporting locks on as many as ten satellites. Accuracy was also pretty good - assessed by comparing position reported through Google Maps with observation through the window - certainly, when we stopped in stations, the position in Google matched well. I've tried the same with a Garmin Vista Cx - on the same route - and you are lucky to get any kind of fix without sitting at a window seat, with the GPS held close to the window.
Hi guys,
After a few weeks of very limited usage of my Tilt GPS, one day I noted that any application was able to detect the GPS. After reading other posts I noted that the solution could be a hard-reset, which I did, however, even after trying several hard-resets and different radios and roms, my GPS is not being detected by GPS Test and GPS Viewer. However, I noted that when I select COM4 at 4800 kbps (disable scan and select a specific port), the GPS led flashes but I never get the GPS starting message (just a detecting GPS message). Any idea what could be wrong?... can the GPS be blocked or deactivated somehow?...
Any help would be appreciated!... Thanks!
couple things to make sure before returning your phone. When using HTC GPS tool, go into the satelite section and see if you at least picking up 1 satelite. Verify you are not inside a building and you are outside and you are giving it some time. Flash another rom and do these procedures again. If none of these work, then probably could be the phone. Good luck.
jfgarciamex said:
Hi guys,
After a few weeks of very limited usage of my Tilt GPS, one day I noted that any application was able to detect the GPS. After reading other posts I noted that the solution could be a hard-reset, which I did, however, even after trying several hard-resets and different radios and roms, my GPS is not being detected by GPS Test and GPS Viewer. However, I noted that when I select COM4 at 4800 kbps (disable scan and select a specific port), the GPS led flashes but I never get the GPS starting message (just a detecting GPS message). Any idea what could be wrong?... can the GPS be blocked or deactivated somehow?...
Any help would be appreciated!... Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to be outside to get a satellite fix. It is almost impossible to get a satellite fix indoors. You also need QuickGPS (freeware) which updates the ephermeris info and lasts 6 days. This makes a satellite fix much quicker. Try that.
GPS antenna
The UART baud rate of the GPS port should be set on 57600. Probably the communication can be done at 4800 like the SIRF chinese module but try to put the correct baud rate and see if the handshake works more fast.
Since I use the phone mostly mobile in my car, I just got one antenna from this eBay seller.
This one have full 15 feet cable so I was able to clip on trunk cover, near the rear window. The antenna connector must be fully inserted in the phone enabling the path contact and at the first insertion you need to apply more force (as usual ).
The phone will sense the current flow by feeding the antenna LNA chip so there is no such thing of mechanical device to switch antennas (internal/external).
The sattelite signal almost double and sometimes up to 10 sats can easily be locked and fast.
GPS working again!!!!.... but how????
Guys,
I'm posting as just noticed something really weird, and to be honest I can not find why the GPS is working again. In my first post as I stated, the GPS was working fine (I have an unlocked tilt with HTC ROM). Then somehow, one day the GPS did not worked anymore (I used HTC GPS Tool, and as soon I opened the port, I did not got any messages at all, it just hang! and with GPS Test the GPS was never detected! - in both cases the GPS led flashed!). Now, after giving up with hard resets, going back to the original ROM, updating QuickGPS data, etc. just yesterday, when I on was meeting playing around went to GPS Test and voila GPS was detected again!!!!... and so far is working fine... I have no clue what fixed it! and, I'm wondering if it may had something to do with my carrier... any one has faced something similar?... any idea what happened?...
Hi, I'm a new member, but more of a lurker. I originally planned to buy a Hermes but after reading about all the hardware problems I decided to go for the Kaiser. My question is, are there any major problems with the Kaiser? I know of the ImageON driver issues, are there any other hardware or software issues?
I don't think there's any fundamental problem with the hardware. The 3 Mp camera is not great, but what do you expect of a camera on a phone?
There a lot of ROMs, official and cooked, you can choose one that suits you.
Mine works pretty well with the original WM 6.0 ROM or the HTC official 3.02 one. With more recent ROMs or radio firmware I have problems with GPS fix times and access to WiFi routers.
Thanks for the fast reply!
I'm sorry to ask this in the Kaiser forum, but would going for the Hermes be worse than the Kaiser? They're essentially the same, except that I've read of a lot of h/w problems on the Hermes.
Hermes is awful next to the Kaiser. I still have mine here, had to use it while my Kaiser was being repaired a few months ago and it was just a PITA. Slow as hell, deeply embossed and lower quality screen,... But I can't talk of hardware problems with it.
If you get a 2nd hand Kaiser, the important points you need to check is that 3G is working (early units had faulty 3G hardware that would fail after some time, but most should have been warranty-fixed by now), and that the USB port is not broken as some tend to break it by shoving the stylus in it instead of the storage place.
I guess I know which phone I'm going for thanks!
One more question! sorry lol, I know the Kaiser has A-GPS, do you have to pay for it? If I put TomTom on my Kaiser will I have to pay for using the assisted GPS?
Also, is CorePlayer working fine on the Kaiser, mainly with xvid/avi files?
A-GPS aka QuickGPS will want to download a small file off the internet at least once a week, be it through Wifi, Activesync or whatever else is available to get satellite data and allow for shorter times to first fix, that's all. And if you don't want to use it you're not forced to, it will just take a little longer to get a fix.
So nothing to pay, except if you decide to download that little file over GPRS where your data fees would apply.
Coreplayer works fine, I personally reencode my videos in 320x240 divx for viewing with it. Never really tried anything else for video.
Alright, thanks amigo!
kilrah said:
A-GPS aka QuickGPS will want to download a small file off the internet at least once a week, be it through Wifi, Activesync or whatever else is available to get satellite data and allow for shorter times to first fix, that's all. And if you don't want to use it you're not forced to, it will just take a little longer to get a fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AGPS is not the same thing as QuickGPS (though it took me ages to realise).
Quick GPS is what you describe and is generally considered to be worthwhile.
AGPS is similar, but it downloads more specific information which (I believe) is based on which phone masts you're near - and therefore should be even better for getting a good fix. The problems are A - It will cost money if you have to pay for your internet connection and B - apparently (though I've never used it) it will sometimes update the data while you're actually using GPS and as a result lose your fix while you're driving somewhere. A lot of people don't like AGPS at all.
dancj said:
AGPS is not the same thing as QuickGPS (though it took me ages to realise).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well.. it is in some way. The problem is that AGPS can be implemented in different ways up to different extents...
The first thing is what is mentioned above - downloading ephemeris data from the net instead of getting it directly from the satellites, which would require continuous link with each satellite for about 1 minute. First fix time is thus shortened as the data for 1 week is stored locally. This is what QuickGPS and SeaSGEE do.
The usual "Disable AGPS" in KaiserTweak / Advanced Config is a second thing. It switches to a different position calculation algorithm that is supposed to work better in low signal conditions, by extrapolating the movement at the time signal is lost and trying to guesstimate how it could evolve everytime some signal is received. But many people don't like that as it's only giving decent results in certain conditions like driving, and when walking, geocaching etc it does nothing more than giving wrong info.
What you mention by using cell towers and an internet database is also something that can be done under the AGPS naming, but AFAIK it's not implemented on the Kaiser.
It sounds like you know more about it than I do so I'll bow to your greater knowledge
Hi All,
Does the tape on the internal antenna cover have a functional purpose ?
It is the labelled tape on this component:
link
I assume "yes" because why else would they spend the $0.04 putting it there?
I ask because over the last two years, I've replaced the internal speaker and my LCD display. Everything works fine now, with the exception that the GPS has ceased working. It turns out that as part of my early curiosity and fumbling around, I pealed off the tape then re-applied it and there is a break in it now. Is the tape an RF shield or an antenna of some sort (i.e. is there a conductor in it), or is it just inert electrical tape ? Does it affect GPS reception? If it is inert, why is it there ?
At any rate, I've tried all the conventional solutions to GPS problems, including
the usual suspects: QuickGPS, turning off AGPS, hard-reset, clear view of sky
trying different radios and ROMs--probably 6 different radios and 4 different ROMs in different combinations
the HTC GPS Tool
throwing my phone against a wall*
I've searched this site and the entire net regarding the antenna cover & tape and haven't found anything ... Any insight ?
Thanks,
Guy
*haven't tried this option yet
Currently running (but have tried 6 Radios and 4 ROMs including OEM ROMs)
HARDSPL 3.29
ROM Version: 65Series WWE 04/30/09 (Phoenix III: Phx3.1.21815)
RAdio: 1.70.19.09
Protocol: 25.83.40.02H
I just set my tilt up exactly like yours and the gps didn't work by default. In each gps program I had to change it to use COM4 instead of the intermediate driver or default setup. Now all my GPS stuff works.
I would try what is mentioned above.. I have a LG Incite that was having the same problem... instead of a com port in the "External GPS Settings", under the GPS Program Port, it was set to "GPD7" instead of "Com4".. I changed that setting and it immediatly fixed the problem... Let us know if that works for you... My GPS went out on my tilt yesteday... and nothign fixed it except for a hard reset.. now it works fine again... Hopefully you won;t ahve to do that... Also, on a side note, I am using TomTom 7.45, as that one seems to work best with my Tilt without having to run any "Extra" programs to get the GPS to work....
Maybe not waiting long enough for WM 6.1 sat fix?
GuyIncognito said:
I ask because over the last two years, I've replaced the internal speaker and my LCD display. Everything works fine now, with the exception that the GPS has ceased working.
<snip>
Currently running (but have tried 6 Radios and 4 ROMs including OEM ROMs)
HARDSPL 3.29
ROM Version: 65Series WWE 04/30/09 (Phoenix III: Phx3.1.21815)
RAdio: 1.70.19.09
Protocol: 25.83.40.02H
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you've not tried GPS since upgrading to WM 6.1 then welcome to the effects of WM 6.1 ROMs (at least the HTC ones which take ages by comparison to get a satelite lock). The WM 6.0 HTC ROMs with early 1.27.xx.xx series radios seem to initialise the GPS circuitry with much more power resulting in better GPS performance so try a WM 6.0 ROM/Radio/SPL setup. If GPS still doesn't work as it should then yes the tape is relevant. Personally I'd get HTC to fit the new tape and see what diffrence it makes - I suspect it'll make a difference.
GPS operational after replacing antenna cover...
Guys,
I just wanted to post an update to the thread. I doubt this is a general solution to GPS problems, but it may help some folks who have the specific situation I had.
For my specific case, replacing the antenna cover plate fixed my problem: GPS had not worked for 6 months (OS sees the GPS device, but 0 satellites under all conditions), and it is now operational after replacing the cover. The GPS had ceased working after I replaced the speaker and LCD display. When replacing those items, I had partially destroyed the tape covering the internal GPS antennas.
So, to answer the questions in my original post,
1. Replacing the cover (link in post # 1) now gets me a fix, with 5-7 satellites in the open. This is at least as good as it was one year ago before I disassembled my device with wreckless abandon.
2. Further, I did some "destructive testing" of the cover I replaced, and the copper colored conductors on the bottom of the antenna cover are in fact attached to the "tape," so I infer that the tape is conductive and/or functions as an antenna, since those conductors make contact with the copper posts on the motherboard.
I will do more testing with time-to-fix and useage conditions, but for now I'm pleasantly surprised.
Note:
* I have not changed my ROM or radio since I originally posted, so the above results are "ceteris paribus" ...
* In the preceding 6 months, GPS has not worked on 20+ different combinations of ROM & radio, including WM6.0 ROMs...
Guy
Flying Kiwi said:
If you've not tried GPS since upgrading to WM 6.1 then welcome to the effects of WM 6.1 ROMs (at least the HTC ones which take ages by comparison to get a satelite lock).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had that problem until yesterday when I switched to hard SPL 3.56 from 3.29. I can now get a GPS fix in under a minute.