Database Develop

Kaiser GPS Problem workaround

Some people might experience with certain GPS software.
If you look at the log of the NMEA log, you might realize that it burst out every 6-10 seconds. After that you might wait for another 6-10 sec, which is unusable for real-time navigation. If you happen to meet this trouble.
I have a way which could allow normal update intervals.
Install GPSGATE, it create virtual GPS COM PORT and re-route the NMEA data.
Install GPSGATE, just use the default settings, it create the virtual GPS port as COM 1.
Just use GPS software on COM 1 .
software url: http://franson.com/gpsgate/

Can anyone confirm this works? Ive noticed my GPS works the same way. Im using the Kaiser / TyTn II with Mapking and i notice that i also get my signbal ins bursts and NOT a smooth stream. Anyone know if this will resolve the problem?

What is the update intervals with GPSGATE ?
Do you mean GPSGATE must be run concurrently with the other software TomTom 6 for example ?
It would be a good workaround for people who encounter this GPS issue.

could this be some delicious spam?

How exactly does the OP propose that a user space application can make the hardware produce data in a smoother stream?
I call BS.

seems like BS to me too...Probably some spam Can anyone who has tried it out verify if it really works or not?..
THKS

You don't need to use other GPS software concurrently,
just use the GPSGATE and mapking will do.
Remember you have to modify the settings in mapking to use the virtual com port ( com1 default)
Not SPAM

I am not sure, this is BS.
If I am not mistaken the GPSGATE will act like a "router" (middle man) between the GPS hardware (Internal GPS of Kaiser) and the application (TomTom).
If the GPS hardware is faulty (having problem) with bursting data every 10 seconds, then the GPSGATE will also receive bursting data every 10 seconds.
So, that's useless as long as the problem is in the GPS hardware.

Gpsproxy should be able to do the same thing and its free.

GPSGate is a splitter, allowing using more than one application with the same NMEA stream. It creates another virtual GPS COM port, that's it.
GPS on the Kaiser works great and I'm on SatNav business. Aquisition time is fast, reception is great and update ratio is every 1 sec, just like any other civilian GPS receiver. GPS is NOT evaluated by the refresh rate you see on the screen, other software will give you other rate, try OZI Explorer for instance. I used Kaiser with TomTom, Destinator & Ozi, all works really great even comparing to Sirf III GPS chipset embedded devices such as Eten X500, HTC Artemis and Asus 535.
Last, Microsoft has included the same functionality of GPS Gate in WM5 and WM6 under settings. You do not need to install any additional SW, you can send "trueman 12345" (the guy who opened this thread with 2 posts history) your money directly.

Thanks RonenB for this very usefull precision !

Thanks as well RonenB, However, it does not solve the odd occasional pause in the data that we're seeing. Is this hardware or software that needs help in the Kaiser?

Actually I'm not so sure we have defined the problem accurately here.
Examining the signal from the GPS shows some interesting info.
1
A satellite is locked onto for perhaps only one or two seconds at a time.
2
Several satellites can achieve a lock but out of these a few will be lost every few seconds
3
New satellites are also acquired every few seconds.
The Result
If you are in the presence of many satellites then there is a constant dropping of some and locking onto others. This leads to no problems as there are always a few satellites locked on and data flow is smooth.
BUT
If you are in the presence of only say 2 or 3 satellites it is possible to drop these two or three (as indicated above), but no new ones are acquired. In this situation there will be a few seconds before the first 2 or 3 lock in again. Result a gap in data flow to your GPS software.
Meaning
The Internal GPS is not polling data in bursts. In other words you cannot turn up the frequency of data polling (possible baud rate adjustment maybe). The data is continuous but if there are too few satellites then there can be gaps where it drops some satellites and does not lock others.
There are various applications that can show this behaviour graphically but tomtom shows it well on the satellite view screen.
Compared to external GPS satellite locks this works in a strangely different way. You will see the bars jumping around from a lock on this one to that one continuously. Only a problem as I say when there are only a few satellites in sight.
Mike
PS - I cannot see the advantage of GPSGate in this particular situation as it is due to momentary periods when no satellite is detected.
Having said all of the above, I find the GPS perfectly adequate for general use. Perhaps if I need spot on plotting data then it might be weak. However if I need that unusual level of accuracy I would not use my phone to do it. I regularly use mine in place of my car's tomtom and the results are on a par with the full tomtom device.

mikechannon said:
Actually I'm not so sure we have defined the problem accurately here.
Examining the signal from the GPS shows some interesting info.
1
A satellite is locked onto for perhaps only one or two seconds at a time.
2
Several satellites can achieve a lock but out of these a few will be lost every few seconds
3
New satellites are also acquired every few seconds.
The Result
If you are in the presence of many satellites then there is a constant dropping of some and locking onto others. This leads to no problems as there are always a few satellites locked on and data flow is smooth.
BUT
If you are in the presence of only say 2 or 3 satellites it is possible to drop these two or three (as indicated above), but no new ones are acquired. In this situation there will be a few seconds before the first 2 or 3 lock in again. Result a gap in data flow to your GPS software.
Meaning
The Internal GPS is not polling data in bursts. In other words you cannot turn up the frequency of data polling (possible baud rate adjustment maybe). The data is continuous but if there are too few satellites then there can be gaps where it drops some satellites and does not lock others.
There are various applications that can show this behaviour graphically but tomtom shows it well on the satellite view screen.
Compared to external GPS satellite locks this works in a strangely different way. You will see the bars jumping around from a lock on this one to that one continuously. Only a problem as I say when there are only a few satellites in sight.
Mike
PS - I cannot see the advantage of GPSGate in this particular situation as it is due to momentary periods when no satellite is detected.
Having said all of the above, I find the GPS perfectly adequate for general use. Perhaps if I need spot on plotting data then it might be weak. However if I need that unusual level of accuracy I would not use my phone to do it. I regularly use mine in place of my car's tomtom and the results are on a par with the full tomtom device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I believe that it is time to explain a little bit how GPS works.
The GPS satellites are transmitting their position rapidly. However, due to homeland security issues (US did not want to allow anyone to place a receiver in a jet fighter or a missile) civilian GPS receivers are limited to aquire position every 1 second only. This is not a problem for a normal user even for civilian aviation. Thus, when you look at the NMEA stream, you will see it coming in bursts and not as rapid as normal data. Since GPS strings are quite short, it is good enough for any navigation system.
Number of satellites aquired is not an indicator to anything. Like any RF system, the engineers can tweak the noise level so that it will look to you that you are receiving X amount of satellites, the signal is on the air anyway.
What is important though is the position of the satellites. the closer to the horizon, the less useable that satellite is to calulate the position. Therefore receivers are taking the best located satellites into account and ignoring others even of they are recieved. Valid fix (position) is aquired by at least 3 satellites for 2D (X,Y) and 4 or more for 3D (with elevation).
Result is that as a user, you should not bother too much looking into the stream or number of sattelite in use as long as you can get a valid fix. The important and effective elements are hidden from the user: number of transsistors in the GPS chipset, quality of antenna etc. User can just evaluate the overall preformance.
As I wrote above, the Kaiser integrated GPS surprised me for superb preformance. I just arrived this week from Israel to Germany and could get a fix as soon as I left the underground garage. I did not loose GPS signal even once since I started using the device. That includes forests and dence city centers. Real good job by HTC here.

This is the problem i am facing:
Im using MapKing with Hong Kong 2007 maps. Getting a fix is no problem. I can normally get a fix in about 10-15 secs. When i check the status page I will normally have a connection to 5-7 satelites.
The problem is that the icon does not move smoothly when i travel. In map king your position on the map is represented by a small car icon. It jumps from location to location every 3-5 secs but does not smoothly move along. Can someone please tell me if this is the case with tomtom as well? Maybe it a problem with mapking?

phame said:
This is the problem i am facing:
Im using MapKing with Hong Kong 2007 maps. Getting a fix is no problem. I can normally get a fix in about 10-15 secs. When i check the status page I will normally have a connection to 5-7 satelites.
The problem is that the icon does not move smoothly when i travel. In map king your position on the map is represented by a small car icon. It jumps from location to location every 3-5 secs but does not smoothly move along. Can someone please tell me if this is the case with tomtom as well? Maybe it a problem with mapking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a Mapking problem and you should contact their support. Does not happen to me with Destinator, TomTOm and Ozi.

Ok, there is no point to argue, if you really find yourself having problem with GPS update lag, then give it a try. No harm indeed...
In HK, there are people the validity of the work around. GPS proxy might also work as well( i think it is the same principal) just i wasn't aware of this good free software before hand..
http://www11.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=5329804&extra=page=2
(u need an account and some chinese word knowledge)

trueman12345 said:
Ok, there is no point to argue, if you really find yourself having problem with GPS update lag, then give it a try. No harm indeed...
In HK, there are people the validity of the work around. GPS proxy might also work as well( i think it is the same principal) just i wasn't aware of this good free software before hand..
http://www11.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=5329804&extra=page=2
(u need an account and some chinese word knowledge)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite agree it's worth trying, and the application has other uses too.
Mike

FYI: I got GPS to work easily by installing GPSViewer, opening COM4/4800baud and getting located. After that, using Google Maps was a breeze; total "trick" took me about 1 minute to figure out which is way quicker than some other workarounds on the internet.

I was driving with iGuidance for about 1 hour this morning and I'm seeing different behavoir for this bug. iGuidance also has an excellent GPS signal viewer, mine was showing 8 out of 8 sattellites, all green, all the time (they turn red when not receiving signal from a sat). My map was moving about once per second or slightly faster. The program only paused once after about 30 minutes into the trip, for about 20-30 seconds. The iGuidance program's moving arrow's color also changes color based on signal quality of the combined sattelite lock, Green for good 3D mapping, Yellow for 2D when there are minimal sats for navigating, and Red for no signal data. During this pause the arrow went Red to indicate no data.
This seems like a bug to me.

GPS - turn off static navigation

Is it possible turn off static navigation in GPS in Kaiser?
It is important for walk navigation and necessary for geocaching.

Hello,
I suppose that you can do it with this
http://w5.nuinternet.com/s660100031/SirfTech.htm
pt_t830

no, you cant.. this works with sirf chip only
in this time, you can't turn it off...

Is there really no way to turn off static nav on the Kaiser? I've upgraded from a Mio a701 which was great for geocaching, but this is just no good unless I can disable static nav.
What chipset is the GPS? I assume it's not Sirf III then?

I see it's a Qualcomm chipset and it doesn't look like it can be turned off. How stupid, makes the GPS useless for geocaching.

I'm really disappointed by the chipset in the Kaiser too, from what I've heard. I don't have mine in hand yet, but I've been doing lots of reading on it the last week while I build a list of Palm->WM programs for migration from my long time platform. At least until Palm gets off their ass.
I already have a Holux 236, I suspect what I'll do is use the Kaiser GPS for navigation and the Holux for geocaching. I'll see how that works out.

Little surprise that you jump the ship, khaytsus.
Not only poorer performance Qualcomm GPS chipset vs. SIRF III chipset, but also you will miss some of great palm applications e.g takephone, callrec, and ptunes.

I'm not too bothered about the 3d performance a lot of other people complain about, but being able to disable static nav is something that should not have been overlooked. It would have swayed me from buying a Kaiser in the first place, even though it's pretty much perfect for what I want apart from this issue.

(This message has been translated as Google Translate)
I had the TyTN II (Kaiser) in the main purchased for geocaching. I am very disappointed now appears that static navigation can not be disabled.
I hope that HTC soon gives a solution.

I have to ask what does this Static Navigation do? and what benifit would you have from turning it off?

When you are not moving (or moving slowly) it stops updating your GPS position. This stops apps like tomtom spinning the map round when youre at traffic lights, but if you need to find a precise point on foot as in Geocaching, it makes it very difficult becuse you have to keep walking fairly quickly for the direction arrow to show.

Termiter said:
Is it possible turn off static navigation in GPS in Kaiser?
It is important for walk navigation and necessary for geocaching.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems fine to me, Kaiser can detect slow walking speed quite accurately such as 1 or 2 mph. If you walk slower than 1mph, it can't tell.
For the SirfIII chip device with SN on (my ETEN M700), it ignores any speed under 3mph and keep you at the same position. With SN off then you are looking at another problem, your position jumps around even when you stand still.

I assume you have never tried geocaching, otherwise you would see the problem. You often need to stand still and let the gps average your position to determine exactly how far away you are. Before anyone chimes in saying it is only accurate to ~10m anyway, my Mio a701 would get me to within 2-3m every time.
When you place a geocache, you need to have your coords spot on. The only way to do this is to leave the gps averaging for a while. I use GPS Tuner for this, but it is useless on the Kaiser.
"Position jumping around" is what you need for on foot accurate GPS nav, but not good for tomtom etc. All I want is the option to choose for myself, which unlike Sirf III, is currently not available for this crappy Qualcomm GPS.

What is static navigation: click here
What I tried to turn static navigation of without any result (but it works on other divices with the same gps-chipset: SiRFstar III):
SiRFTech
SiRFDemo
MMSirf setup (direct download)
So I hope there follows also a solution for the Kaiser!

There is one solution...get a bluetooth GPS receiver with a SIRFIII chip. Not ideal, I agree, but for the most part I use the bluetooth GPS for geocaching and hiking both because it can turn off SN and because it's just a much more accurate chip in general. The internal works ok for hiking, but is more ideally suited for driving applications.
@Geinponem: it doesn't have a SirfStar III gps chipset. That is part of the problem.

@Geinponem: it doesn't have a SirfStar III gps chipset. That is part of the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See here the specifications of MY TyTN II (this is the site where I bought the divice). Sorry its a Dutch site.
Here and here another Dutch sites.
Is the information wrong on this sites? Or is the build-in chipset not in every country the same?
BTW: where do you hold your BT-GPSr by geocaching. Can you put it in your pocket?

I don't get it, on my Kaiser the GPS continues updating normally even when static, as if I leave the phone on a table the position will always change a little at each reading.

Updating of the current position is great!
The problem is that the direction of the destination by low speed is not updated. In programs like GPSTuner the destination arrow is 'frozen' then.

That's totally normal. A GPS can't give you a direction (heading) when it doesn't move. If it gives you one it's just derived from the position error (even if the GPS is stationary, there will be a little position error between consecutive readings, and the direction the GPS gives will be the one between those points) so it means nothing at all.
By the way, in GPS Tuner by default there's a filter that ignores new GPS data if speed is under something like 2km/h. So even if the GPS does give info, the program discards it. You need to turn that off in the GPS options.

Nghiem said:
Little surprise that you jump the ship, khaytsus.
Not only poorer performance Qualcomm GPS chipset vs. SIRF III chipset, but also you will miss some of great palm applications e.g takephone, callrec, and ptunes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've found the Tilt's GPS to be VERY accurate, in fact, it beats some of the stand-alone GPS units out there. I live in a very rural area, and it finds my house EXACTLY on the money, I am very impressed!
Edit-I see a lot in this thread who don't have their location or carrier in their posting info, it would help a lot if we knew that

Dead horse beating: Kaiser vs Visiontac GPS Tomtom review

I went through a few Windows Smartphones before getting my first PPC (a Motorola MPx) just over a year ago. I already had a Bluetooth GPS receiver: Visiontac VGPS 700 I was trying to use it with my Motorola A1200, with no luck. However, with the MPx, and Tomtom, I was able to navigate via GPS with my own GPS system as it were.
That setup quickly (within weeks) gave way to a Cingular 8525 paired to the Visiontac GPS and away I went. I travel a lot for work. From So Cal to (this past year) Mass (Boston), NYC, Kentucky, Ohio, Tenn, Utah, Arizona, NM, and so on. I've used the 8525 in all kinds of areas, from urban areas like San Francisco, NYC, Philly, LA, Cincinnati, Chicago, and so on to areas in the relative middle of nowhere such as the So Cal desert, some areas of Kentucky, PA, and TN I've been to the last year (way, way off the nearest road). Since I've had it, I've put probably driven 20,000-30,000 miles with the Visiontac and Tomtom on. I've got a decent idea of how quick it takes to get a lock when cold, how long to get a lock after getting off a plane in another portion of the country, and how many satellites it shows in Tomtom. I've checked it against hundreds of roadside speed warning signs, and used it to calibrate the speedometers of three Jeeps now.
Then, a last week, I get the ATT Tilt (aka 8925, aka Kaiser). I move my 6gb micro SD across to it, fire up Tomtom (which I've always run off the card- it makes it easier when flashing every other week.) and go. After getting the com port dialed in (COM 4) and the baud rate (started at 4800 like many on here said, now on 57500) I've noticed that the internal GPS of the Kaiser just doesn't compare with the Visiontac bluetooth unit.
I went to San Fran this weekend (from Riverside- about 380 miles) and drove around town up there all weekend using the new phone for directions. I put about 1100 miles on the vehicle, and the navigation on the Kaiser. After losing signal in some areas of the city and having to drive until it found a satellite again and recalculated a route, where I didn't remember losing it before on the old setup, and noting that instead of 5 bars shown for signal as on the Hermes, I see a fluxuating 3-5 bars on the Kaiser.
So, this morning on the way in to work, I fire up both units, side by side to see what the deal is. I was wondering if the Kaiser really was lacking where the Visiontac/Hermes setup didn't seem to be.
Sure enough, the Kaiser running Tomtom 6 shows 3-5 (most often 4) bars on open freeway where the Hermes shows 5 bars. In the GPS configuration settings on Tomtom I find what I believe to be the answer. The Visiontac GPS tracks 12 satellites, the Kaiser, tracks only 8 most of the time, occasionally will track 12.
If that wasn't enough to cause me to lose direction and location, the Visiontac GPS appears more sensitive. The way Tomtom shows how good the signal is, is by the height of a particular satellite's bar on a bar graph. If you were to divide the bar into 5ths, the Visiontac seems to constantly be a fifth higher (20% more sensitive) than the Kaiser's built in GPS.
As for battery usage, I get about 3.5 hours of navigation (along with a few phone calls using the Jawbone headset) with the Kaiser before I get the "charge battery to prevent data loss" warning. On the Hermes, I get about 5.5 hours, with the Visiontac GPS able to run to almost 8 hours before needing a recharge. I expected a loss in battery power, due to the unit also having to power the GPS chip. I'm not sure I expected 2 hours, but I'm not completely bummed over it. My GPS usage is largely in a vehicle, or inside, to find out how far something is, so I can plug it in if needed.
I have also noticed that Tomtom is faster to start on the Kaiser. It is faster to allow you to type in addresses to navigate to, or points of interest to look up, and it calculates the route quicker. Key press response in general are quicker than on the Hermes. I expected a little quicker, thanks to the added RAM, but not this much- they both have 400 mhz chipsets. Granted, it still isn't instant, but it is an improvement.
Phone Specs at time of test said:
Hermes:
Running Starbase64's 6 3.62 WWE/HTC Rom for Hermes
Stock Battery
Kaiser:
Running ATT as-delivered ROM 1.57.502.2 (08/25/07)
Stock Battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall:
I just wish there was a way to up the sensitivity and/or the number of satellites that the Kaiser's GPS tracked. Compared to the Visiontac VGPS 700, it just can't compete in urban environs or in heavily wooded areas. It looses signal too easily. And, while I haven't tried some of the larger bridges around here yet, I am left wondering how it will do under them. Aside from that, it is great to not have to carry around two items to navigate, I have no more bluetooth receiver falling off my dash when going around a corner, and if I have my phone, I can find a place for dinner, or find my way out of an unfamiliar area with 90 percent confidence. The Kaiser is quicker than the Hermes for navigation, and overall is accurate, however it does leave a little to be desired. Am I happy I went to the Kaiser? Absolutely. Am I going to be selling my Hermes and Visiontac? (the original plan) Probably not for a while.
Hopefully this helps any who are later to the game than I am and/or still sitting on the fence trying to decide whether or not to jump in.

Would adding the external antenna help, for the areas whre it is a pain?
I don't know what it looks like or how painful that would be, but it may be an option.

I'm not completely happy with the GPS performance of my Tytn2. I had a MDA Vario (pre-pre-decessor of the Tytn2) and an external Adapt-700 bt unit. That one worked brilliantly. Even inside a Renault (with the coated windows) it worked flawless. Alway perfect reception. It's different with my Tytn2. In the morning, it takes some time to get a fix. I was used to 10-15 seconds before a fix was there. Now it is sometimes 1 minute.
But...I've notices something. The QuickGPS program makes it work a lot better. I knew that it should improve the performance, but the program is a bit misleading. It says that once you retrieved the data, it's valid for six days. So...you'd be in the clear for the rest of the week so to say. But I noticed that when you do a 'refresh' in the morning (every day), it works much, much better. I can even get a fix where it wouldn't before.
So, my tip would be to run the QuickGPS every day, or every time before a drive.

Over2land
Another question. How well is TomTom performing for you 'quality of mapwise'? I've read a few posts complaining about how old the maps are for Nagigator 6, and especially for the U.S. Also comments about 'no rumored upgrade' for Navigator 6.
I just purchased it, so I got it for whatever it's worth. But just curious about what you are seeing.

ewingr said:
Over2land
Another question. How well is TomTom performing for you 'quality of mapwise'? I've read a few posts complaining about how old the maps are for Nagigator 6, and especially for the U.S. Also comments about 'no rumored upgrade' for Navigator 6.
I just purchased it, so I got it for whatever it's worth. But just curious about what you are seeing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Missed the first question, sorry.
I have no idea if an external wired GPS antenna would help it. I would hazard to say it couldn't hurt. However, with the Hermes, there was evidence put forth that the external antenna (for the radio/GSM) fried the output circuits or some such, rendering it useless as a phone. I'd be worried about that happening here. Also, I've got like 5 vehicles on the road right now I rotate through, or try to rotate through, and a hard-mounted wired antenna wouldn't work for me.
In San Fran, there are issues with Tomtom not knowing where and when I can or can't turn a certain direction which really annoyed me. In So Cal, there are certain areas (understandable with the housing boom) that it just doesn't have on the maps. Areas that are 3 or 4 years old still aren't there. I've also noticed the same thing in NJ, intersections don't exist in the maps and so forth. I guess really there is something I've noted everywhere I've gone. Tomtom always gets me there, often with less fan trouble than if I was one my own, I find it more accurate than Mapquest also.
They really do need map updating.
And, they really need to look at updating quickest routes. Half the time in my local area, I don't follow Tomtom's freeway suggestions due to congestion, which is persistent congestion that should be noted. Areas like the 15/91 interchange, the 10 between the 5 and 405, the 10 where it drops south to hit the 60, and so on.
Then again, I've not used any other map/ turn by turn software so I have nothing to compare it against either.

ewingr said:
Would adding the external antenna help, for the areas whre it is a pain?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have an external GPS antenna in my car. I didn't have time to hook it up yet, but I'll check if it makes a difference. With my previous GPS receiver, which I kept in my glove compartiment (hence the antenna), it worked well. Not that it was really needed, but I just wanted optimal reception.

This is a great post. I am trying to buy a used kaiser now so I don't need a extra gps receiver. Seems I need to consider it again.

What ROM are you using on your Kaiser? There have been great differences in GPS performance between ROMs. From general advice AGPS should be disabled too for best performance.
Personally I'm very happy with mine, I'm working a lot with different GPS modules, and the performance is as good as the best ones I have. Sat count might be a bit lower (which gives fewer bars in TomTom), but the performance is really similar.
As already noted, an external antenna could help. The typical GPS antenna you'll find in a stand-alone module is a 25x25x4mm ceramic block weighing 30gr, no need to say that it's impossible to fit such a thing in a phone, so obviously the integrated antennas in those are a lot less sensitive.
Of course our uses are different and if you always use the combo in your car it doesn't matter much if you have 2 separate devices. I tend to rather use it walking, running, biking, flying so in lots of different places and with a separate receiver I would of course not have it with me most of the times I'd have needed it. Having the integrated one is great for me, even if there's a little tradeoff in performance.

I am using Romeos 4.2 and have never had a problem with my gps on mt TYTNII. I get a fix indoors which I cannot do with my Garmin Rino no external antenna required.

is kaiser's gps suitable for road trips?

thinking about utilizing my kaiser's gps for road trip, i figure i'd ask for advice before jumped in buying gps software (since i don't have a guarantee to be able to load google map at all times). let me hear it if you've done road trips using kaiser as your main gps device & how reliable is it - of course it'll run on car's power plug - does it get overheat or have any issue receiving call when gps software is active etc?
thanks in advance guys.

I use AT&T's Telenav and have made trips with the Tilt running for up to 5-6 hours at a stretch, no problems. I just have it in a Brodit car mount, use a car charger and use my Jabra BT8040 for the street names and voice directions when I need it. Since Telenav is using a data connection, it drops out if a call comes in on an EDGE connection. Keeps going fine if in a 3G area though.

i use kaiser with garmin and adria route maps and everything works fine. no overheating, no problem with calls. you just have to make sure to get the right maps for your needs (up to date, covering your area of interests...)

gps
i use my tilt as my only GPS, and with the tomtom6 software loaded onto it, its taken me hundreds of miles all over the US with no issues. I recommend using this and not buying another GPS, especially since the tomtom software makes it identical to any other tomtom device

It's nice to have google maps, windows live installed to use when you can, but it's hard to beat something like TomTom or iGo8 if you want to splurge..
Definitely recommend getting a car mount (that you can swivel!) and a car charger and your battery gets chewed up QUICK when using GPS...
Enjoy!
-RT

i used it at a last min, with google maps on a trip, of course having gps and edge on at the same time kills the battery, but having it charge in car was fine it worked well, just wish i could have faster then edge connection with us tmo

Tomtom Navigator worked reliably under my TyTN IIs original WM 6.0 firmware (allbeit a little like watching a slideshow at times) but now under HTCs latest 6.1 release, GPS performance is very erratic and it takes ages to get a fix in most cases. HTC needs to come up with a fix to this issue so I suggest you steer clear of the HTC WM 6.1 update until it's been resolved.

It's perfectly suitable for this kind of use.
Don't forget about car charger, I've bought mine off eBay for silly price

Yep, I'll throw in my $.02 too. Great for road navigation, sucks for much else. It's off by 15-20 feet at all times, jumps around randomly, and altitude is always WAY off, but none of that matters with road nav software as they "snap to road".
There *is* the occational time I'll have TomTom suddenly think I'm on a nearby road, like if two are closely parallelling each other (say, interstate and small road beside it) and once or twice I've had it think I'm on a cross street I'm approaching, but rarely is it more than you might see it blip over to the wrong street, start recalculating, then jump back.

reliable
here is my 2 cents having just used it on a 1500 mile week-long roadtrip a week ago. simply, it was as awesome as it can get. i had tomtom 6 with the latest US-Canada map on my 2GB microSD.
before setting sail, i saved all the addresses i wanted to go to as FAVs, and just went off, no problems getting a signal, and the signal was accurate enough for driving.
when i needed to look for a POI that TomTom didn't have, I would just start Google Maps for Mobile and find it. I was also running Mologogo to allow family to know where I was. GPS photos where also nice to have.
as others pointed out, a windshield mount and a car charger are musts.
the only problem I had (couldn't explain, but didn't cause enough problems to research) was that it would heat up really good (of course being exposed to direct sun light helped) that it would start flashing red while being charged, and i had to stop charging to get it back to flashing green. I then found that brining it next to the AC actually helped in keeping it charging.

ya ill 2nd that it does get really hot while using gps and internet while trying to charge it... but i only used it for short times 20-30min and when you have a super long road u dont need it, i dont use it to tell me every direction i was a copilot
i think most gps sucks at accurate position or even giving live directions, thats why i dont use it in such a way, only to see the map and were I am in relation to the directions.

I think the GPS is very accurate. With Google Maps, if I stand at the end of my driveway and zoom into the sat view of my home, it's got me pegged to within a meter or so, easily (even clearly indicating which side of the driveway I'm on, and it's only about 13m wide at that point). And, as soon as I start walking, "my location" starts moving along too.

I use it with Garmin Mobile XT (GMXT) software for road navigation and it works quite well. Must have a car charget as it drains battery a lot. GPS is sometimes slow to lock (even with QuickGPS data), so you can't expect to turn it on and be navigating within 30 seconds everytime. Other than it is perfect - only one device to carry. Good maps, voice directions etc...

My suggestion is to get a entry level Garmin or Tomtom automotive gps cost less than $130 and is designed to be used for extended period of time repeatedly and have maps of entire North America.
In my opinion phones are not designed to be running for so many hours constantly, some inner parts might be aging (pcb boards becomes dark and burned looking) without you knowing it. Especially in the hotter areas where the dashboard temperature could reach 160 degrees easily since it's constantly exposed to the sun. GPS on the phone works as a backup when you are far from your car in a totally strange place. Automotive GPS are designed to be used in such harsh conditions.
Also consider the network coverage of the phones if you are using one of the free services, as when you are out of the internet service, you can't get any map update...... So in the long run an entry level GPS w/maps saves you more money, since they cost about same as a piece of software for your phone that probably does not get updated as often as each company's regular automotive GPS products.
So what I am trying to say is:
Save your delicate Tilt/TyTN II, and get a GPS! You can find discontinued Garmin GPS products on eBay for heck cheap, for example the Garmin C320 that my girlfriend still uses since I bought it years ago, and gave to her when I upgraded to C580, goes for around $60-70 and it's one of the best GPS I've used.

just went to georgia and back with garmin mobile xt + 2009 maps installed, no problems at all.

I have tried it on long journeys using tomtom, route66, garminxt and miomaps.
Works fine using any of this s/w. I found the new Diamond ROMs slowed tomtomt down when getting a satellite fix. It took at least 10 minutes at the best of times. I have gone back to one of Duttys 6.1 ROMS and it is all working fine again.

I use GPS tuner V5.0 for GPS, you can create your own maps, waypoints etc. No tomtom in this part of the world, but Mapking works good too.
Be sure to have a charger nearby though...

Thank you guys for the advice
It's awesome to hear from your experiences in a way that gives me an idea how much should I expect from my Kaiser, well I guess I'll try to use it only when I need directions the most (i.e. within cities) as opposed to "continue on highway XYZ for 80 miles, drive straight ahead, straight ahead, 79 more miles c'mon you can do it, ...."
and thank you guys also to be kind enough providing some info for the GPS software, I'm entirely grateful

If you're taking a long trips over 1 hour DO NOT USE GOOGLE MAPS!!! even if you have a car charger. Google maps requires a constant data connection to update its maps on top of keeping the screen on and powering the internal GPS receiver. The drain is more than the car charger can handle. The phone will get hot with in 30 minutes of google maps usage. If you dont have a car charger Google Maps will kill your fully charged standard battery less than 4 hours if you're on EDGE, less than 3 hours if you're on 3G. Stay away from Google Maps for long trips. The only time I use Google Maps on a long trip is to check for traffic.
A dedicated GPS navigation software like TomTom, iGuidance, Destinator, Garmin mobile work best for long trips. The drain is minimal. The car charger will handle TomTom, iGuidance or Destinator for hours and hours without any problem. The phone doesnt get as hot plus it actually charges the phone. As for its actual useage and practicality, TomTom software is just as good as the dedicated TomTom. The interface is the same. High end TomTom may have more options but that's about it. It gets you from point A to point B. It may not take you on a route that you like but it'll get you there. It automatically reroutes and recalculates if you miss a turn. Like any other GPS device, if you need to change destination or search for POI hand it to the passanger and let them do it.

I'd say you need a better car charger. I use AT&T Nav, which also uses a constant data connection for maps and real time traffic updates. When I've used mine for whole days of constant use (ferrying people around D.C. and greater area one weekend for a work function), my car charger managed to keep it fully charged the whole time (and I made/received quite a few calls and emails those days too, plus did a fair bit of web surfing).
Sure, the back got a little warm, but honestly, I feel the device is not harmed by it - in fact, I'd argue it's designed for such use. just like people who use wifi for long periods or who get tons of push mail daily and so forth. Heck, mine gets pretty warm just using wifi when updating my RSS and podcast feeds every day. Does it have thermal overload protection anyway? I would not be surprised if it did.
The screen LEDs are not likely going to burn out from constant use in the lifetime of the device (which for even the most infrequent user won't be more then several or so years). You figure an LED should be good for at least, say 50,000 hours (?) which is over 10 years if on for 12hrs every single day.
The heat may kill the battery a bit sooner then later, but after one year or two at most of 24/7 use (I never turn my phone off), the battery will be shot anyway.
I say just use the thing - what's the point of such a device if you cannot use it for the things it is supposedly intended for? Anyhow, that's how I use mine, and it's doing just fine.

Below par GPS performance of Diamond

Hi everyone,
Have anyone noticed the slow calculation/refresh rate of GPS once it's active and navigating? Hold it in your hand and walk, there will be no refresh rate at all ! Your speed will be at 0 km/hr and the co-ordinates will not change at all. If you are in a car and it's stand still or on a traffic signal, or if there's a traffic jam and you are standstill and very immediately you have to turn right/left, you are sure to lose your way since it takes some time after the vehicle is in motion already to calculate and refresh your actual position and speed. Even when you are driving, there's a constant slow refresh rate of around 4 seconds. i.e. say you are accelerating the speed of your car, notice the speed being shown on the GPS software, it'll show your actual speed at a delay of 4/5 seconds. Same goes when you apply brakes, your speed suddenly goes down but the GPS will take it's time to reflect the correct speed.
I must say I am very disappointed with the GPS performace since my last phone was Trinity, it's GPS chip is just normal/ no agps but it's performance is much better than diamond's GPS. Trinity's GPS is immediate refresh rate with no such delays at all.
Test your diamond GPS observing what I said in this post and please post results here.

Are u sure it`s GPS issue not an software one ? Which software do you use for navigation ?

It's not a software issue since I've used TomTom and Garmin MobileXT with same results.

Same issue here!
Plus, the serial port keeps disconnecting of the internal GPS receiver keeps on disconnecting...
Which radio version have you on your device? This for sure software related (firmware, GPS navigation software or drivers)...
HastaSSSS

Have you enabled the AGPS on tweak? I found with this on the port would consistently connect and disconnect. Plus the refresh rate on TomTom was very very slow either driving or walking.
Today I turned AGPS off as where I travel it's not really needed anyway and bam!
Refresh rate both driving and walking is as good as my TomTom unit.
Today I drove with them both on and they were virtually in sync on the maps and spoken directions all the way. Very pleased.
Oh and ensuring "Receive all beams" is off in connections can help with TomTom too.
My details in case this has anything to do with it...
ROM : 1.37.405.1
Date: 10/06/2008
Radio: 1.00.25.03
Protocol: 52.26a.25.09H

And can you change the gpx settings under WM settings?
Even if I try to change the baud rate, when I go inside the configuration file, it's back to 4800 again...
HastaSSSS

This is a common problem with modern GPS chipsets - the way that they reduce multipath interference (from tall buildings, etc.) means that they often ignore movements below a certain speed (which can be often higher than walking pace).
Assuming that the HTC Touch Diamond uses the SirfStar 3 chipset (does anyone know for sure), this problem could theoretically be reduced by altering the 'static navigation' setting (see point 4 in this post for more details on static navigation and why it results in poor low-speed accuracy). However, how you'd actually tell the chipset to disable this feature, I don't know...
On an unrelated note, I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the sensitivity of the GPS chipset in the Diamond - it's managed to get lock in the middle of the my house, which is an amazing feat, and not one I've seen either my MTK or SirfStar standalone receivers achieve.

I am also pretty satisfied with the GPS performance. Can't complain on that!

snoopstah said:
This is a common problem with modern GPS chipsets - the way that they reduce multipath interference (from tall buildings, etc.) means that they often ignore movements below a certain speed (which can be often higher than walking pace).
Assuming that the HTC Touch Diamond uses the SirfStar 3 chipset (does anyone know for sure), this problem could theoretically be reduced by altering the 'static navigation' setting (see point 4 in this post for more details on static navigation and why it results in poor low-speed accuracy). However, how you'd actually tell the chipset to disable this feature, I don't know...
On an unrelated note, I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the sensitivity of the GPS chipset in the Diamond - it's managed to get lock in the middle of the my house, which is an amazing feat, and not one I've seen either my MTK or SirfStar standalone receivers achieve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a good theory, no doubt about that, but I think it's more a lag in the communication between the receiver and the phone, or a lag on the rendering of the map.
Your explanation doesn't foresee as well the reason why the connection keeps falling...
But I've learned already something with your post. Didn't knew about that "feature" or "characteristic" of the SIRF III receivers.
HastaSSSS

My experience with the Diamonds GPS is 100% better than on my HTC P3600.
I primarly use the GPS with google maps in Canada, and Jamaica and it gives me accurcy to about 15 feet.. where with the 3600 it was accurate to about 30-40 feet. Normally have about 7 to 8 stats connected. Didn't touch any of the default settings on the phone.
I also tested with Live Search and GPS tuner v5 and works perfectly. Fast lock times (5-10seconds)....
Chris

snoopstah said:
This is a common problem with modern GPS chipsets - the way that they reduce multipath interference (from tall buildings, etc.) means that they often ignore movements below a certain speed (which can be often higher than walking pace).
Assuming that the HTC Touch Diamond uses the SirfStar 3 chipset (does anyone know for sure), this problem could theoretically be reduced by altering the 'static navigation' setting (see point 4 in this post for more details on static navigation and why it results in poor low-speed accuracy). However, how you'd actually tell the chipset to disable this feature, I don't know...
On an unrelated note, I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the sensitivity of the GPS chipset in the Diamond - it's managed to get lock in the middle of the my house, which is an amazing feat, and not one I've seen either my MTK or SirfStar standalone receivers achieve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's true according to the static navigation thing? how can we disable it on our diamond? Can somebody throw a clue?
About AGPS, I haven't enabled it, or it's enabled by default in the new rom? 1.37 one?

It's like this with even AGSP disabled so it's certainly not the AGPS which is causing this delay in reception.

After googling and studying, i've found out that it's indeed the STATIC NAVIGATION which has been enabled by default on the diamond chip. Somone have any idea how to disable it? Please share

nice to see that I m not the only one with that problem, I was asking myself if it was my device who was deffective. On my cruise there was no lag at all.

I took mine out walking today and noticed it was telling me I was stood still for about 30 yds.
So I took it and my standalone out and the Diamond is rubbish but my big tomtom unit is great!
What's the point of GPS in a handheld device if you can't use it walking?
I hope this is easy to remedy.

I'm pretty sure that they don't use SirfStar III which would present much better GPS performance. Most probably they just incorporated the GPS section in the Qualcomm processor. Of course you can buy a SirfStar III Bluetooth receiver, but it doesn't make sense if you already got GPS built-in the device. I can only say that I was using HTC Hermes with SS III BT receiver a lot (more than 8 hours daily) and when I heard that HTC Kaiser had GPS build-in I was very happy untill almost immediately after trying TomTom on my new device I noticed worse performance. With Diamond it's the same story. Unfortunately...

A-GPS.
When I got the phone I installed the advanced config tool to adjust soms settings.
I also noticed A-GPS was off.
So I was thinking that turning it on might be a smart move.
Which it wasn't. TomTom reception was bad, waiting minutes would give maybe 4 sattelites en losing them constantly.
After turning of A-GPS again.. Whitin secconds .. I got 8 sattelites with a steady signal.
TomTom works fine for me now.
Excuses for my bad english...

for "foot" navigation the igo8 has a special setup along with "car", "bicycle"' "public transportation" and so on...why blame the diamond? blame yr navigation software! how many ppl said their navigation is the best? best, my ass the best.
be cool, soon igo8 is going to be avaible for diamond also
as for the diamond's gps...it works inside my house, first floor !!!

I really feel for you guys. GPS is one thing I definitely want to be working perfectly, and I can say with the diamond so far that has been the case. I'm getting a lock in about 15-20 seconds with about 12 satellites. I'm also using QuickGPS with no problems. I have been using the new TomTom 7 and it is absolutely fantastic!!!!!! Best handheld GPS solution I've ever owned, and I don't see why it would not be identical to a TomTom PNA!

My GPS is also not accurate, I'm using Tomtom7 and its telling me my home address is atleast 30 metres away when I'm at my home address. What the hell!!!!
I have tried enabling and disabling the A-GPS option and still its the same result.