Database Develop

Kaiser GPS Problem workaround

Some people might experience with certain GPS software.
If you look at the log of the NMEA log, you might realize that it burst out every 6-10 seconds. After that you might wait for another 6-10 sec, which is unusable for real-time navigation. If you happen to meet this trouble.
I have a way which could allow normal update intervals.
Install GPSGATE, it create virtual GPS COM PORT and re-route the NMEA data.
Install GPSGATE, just use the default settings, it create the virtual GPS port as COM 1.
Just use GPS software on COM 1 .
software url: http://franson.com/gpsgate/

Can anyone confirm this works? Ive noticed my GPS works the same way. Im using the Kaiser / TyTn II with Mapking and i notice that i also get my signbal ins bursts and NOT a smooth stream. Anyone know if this will resolve the problem?

What is the update intervals with GPSGATE ?
Do you mean GPSGATE must be run concurrently with the other software TomTom 6 for example ?
It would be a good workaround for people who encounter this GPS issue.

could this be some delicious spam?

How exactly does the OP propose that a user space application can make the hardware produce data in a smoother stream?
I call BS.

seems like BS to me too...Probably some spam Can anyone who has tried it out verify if it really works or not?..
THKS

You don't need to use other GPS software concurrently,
just use the GPSGATE and mapking will do.
Remember you have to modify the settings in mapking to use the virtual com port ( com1 default)
Not SPAM

I am not sure, this is BS.
If I am not mistaken the GPSGATE will act like a "router" (middle man) between the GPS hardware (Internal GPS of Kaiser) and the application (TomTom).
If the GPS hardware is faulty (having problem) with bursting data every 10 seconds, then the GPSGATE will also receive bursting data every 10 seconds.
So, that's useless as long as the problem is in the GPS hardware.

Gpsproxy should be able to do the same thing and its free.

GPSGate is a splitter, allowing using more than one application with the same NMEA stream. It creates another virtual GPS COM port, that's it.
GPS on the Kaiser works great and I'm on SatNav business. Aquisition time is fast, reception is great and update ratio is every 1 sec, just like any other civilian GPS receiver. GPS is NOT evaluated by the refresh rate you see on the screen, other software will give you other rate, try OZI Explorer for instance. I used Kaiser with TomTom, Destinator & Ozi, all works really great even comparing to Sirf III GPS chipset embedded devices such as Eten X500, HTC Artemis and Asus 535.
Last, Microsoft has included the same functionality of GPS Gate in WM5 and WM6 under settings. You do not need to install any additional SW, you can send "trueman 12345" (the guy who opened this thread with 2 posts history) your money directly.

Thanks RonenB for this very usefull precision !

Thanks as well RonenB, However, it does not solve the odd occasional pause in the data that we're seeing. Is this hardware or software that needs help in the Kaiser?

Actually I'm not so sure we have defined the problem accurately here.
Examining the signal from the GPS shows some interesting info.
1
A satellite is locked onto for perhaps only one or two seconds at a time.
2
Several satellites can achieve a lock but out of these a few will be lost every few seconds
3
New satellites are also acquired every few seconds.
The Result
If you are in the presence of many satellites then there is a constant dropping of some and locking onto others. This leads to no problems as there are always a few satellites locked on and data flow is smooth.
BUT
If you are in the presence of only say 2 or 3 satellites it is possible to drop these two or three (as indicated above), but no new ones are acquired. In this situation there will be a few seconds before the first 2 or 3 lock in again. Result a gap in data flow to your GPS software.
Meaning
The Internal GPS is not polling data in bursts. In other words you cannot turn up the frequency of data polling (possible baud rate adjustment maybe). The data is continuous but if there are too few satellites then there can be gaps where it drops some satellites and does not lock others.
There are various applications that can show this behaviour graphically but tomtom shows it well on the satellite view screen.
Compared to external GPS satellite locks this works in a strangely different way. You will see the bars jumping around from a lock on this one to that one continuously. Only a problem as I say when there are only a few satellites in sight.
Mike
PS - I cannot see the advantage of GPSGate in this particular situation as it is due to momentary periods when no satellite is detected.
Having said all of the above, I find the GPS perfectly adequate for general use. Perhaps if I need spot on plotting data then it might be weak. However if I need that unusual level of accuracy I would not use my phone to do it. I regularly use mine in place of my car's tomtom and the results are on a par with the full tomtom device.

mikechannon said:
Actually I'm not so sure we have defined the problem accurately here.
Examining the signal from the GPS shows some interesting info.
1
A satellite is locked onto for perhaps only one or two seconds at a time.
2
Several satellites can achieve a lock but out of these a few will be lost every few seconds
3
New satellites are also acquired every few seconds.
The Result
If you are in the presence of many satellites then there is a constant dropping of some and locking onto others. This leads to no problems as there are always a few satellites locked on and data flow is smooth.
BUT
If you are in the presence of only say 2 or 3 satellites it is possible to drop these two or three (as indicated above), but no new ones are acquired. In this situation there will be a few seconds before the first 2 or 3 lock in again. Result a gap in data flow to your GPS software.
Meaning
The Internal GPS is not polling data in bursts. In other words you cannot turn up the frequency of data polling (possible baud rate adjustment maybe). The data is continuous but if there are too few satellites then there can be gaps where it drops some satellites and does not lock others.
There are various applications that can show this behaviour graphically but tomtom shows it well on the satellite view screen.
Compared to external GPS satellite locks this works in a strangely different way. You will see the bars jumping around from a lock on this one to that one continuously. Only a problem as I say when there are only a few satellites in sight.
Mike
PS - I cannot see the advantage of GPSGate in this particular situation as it is due to momentary periods when no satellite is detected.
Having said all of the above, I find the GPS perfectly adequate for general use. Perhaps if I need spot on plotting data then it might be weak. However if I need that unusual level of accuracy I would not use my phone to do it. I regularly use mine in place of my car's tomtom and the results are on a par with the full tomtom device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I believe that it is time to explain a little bit how GPS works.
The GPS satellites are transmitting their position rapidly. However, due to homeland security issues (US did not want to allow anyone to place a receiver in a jet fighter or a missile) civilian GPS receivers are limited to aquire position every 1 second only. This is not a problem for a normal user even for civilian aviation. Thus, when you look at the NMEA stream, you will see it coming in bursts and not as rapid as normal data. Since GPS strings are quite short, it is good enough for any navigation system.
Number of satellites aquired is not an indicator to anything. Like any RF system, the engineers can tweak the noise level so that it will look to you that you are receiving X amount of satellites, the signal is on the air anyway.
What is important though is the position of the satellites. the closer to the horizon, the less useable that satellite is to calulate the position. Therefore receivers are taking the best located satellites into account and ignoring others even of they are recieved. Valid fix (position) is aquired by at least 3 satellites for 2D (X,Y) and 4 or more for 3D (with elevation).
Result is that as a user, you should not bother too much looking into the stream or number of sattelite in use as long as you can get a valid fix. The important and effective elements are hidden from the user: number of transsistors in the GPS chipset, quality of antenna etc. User can just evaluate the overall preformance.
As I wrote above, the Kaiser integrated GPS surprised me for superb preformance. I just arrived this week from Israel to Germany and could get a fix as soon as I left the underground garage. I did not loose GPS signal even once since I started using the device. That includes forests and dence city centers. Real good job by HTC here.

This is the problem i am facing:
Im using MapKing with Hong Kong 2007 maps. Getting a fix is no problem. I can normally get a fix in about 10-15 secs. When i check the status page I will normally have a connection to 5-7 satelites.
The problem is that the icon does not move smoothly when i travel. In map king your position on the map is represented by a small car icon. It jumps from location to location every 3-5 secs but does not smoothly move along. Can someone please tell me if this is the case with tomtom as well? Maybe it a problem with mapking?

phame said:
This is the problem i am facing:
Im using MapKing with Hong Kong 2007 maps. Getting a fix is no problem. I can normally get a fix in about 10-15 secs. When i check the status page I will normally have a connection to 5-7 satelites.
The problem is that the icon does not move smoothly when i travel. In map king your position on the map is represented by a small car icon. It jumps from location to location every 3-5 secs but does not smoothly move along. Can someone please tell me if this is the case with tomtom as well? Maybe it a problem with mapking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a Mapking problem and you should contact their support. Does not happen to me with Destinator, TomTOm and Ozi.

Ok, there is no point to argue, if you really find yourself having problem with GPS update lag, then give it a try. No harm indeed...
In HK, there are people the validity of the work around. GPS proxy might also work as well( i think it is the same principal) just i wasn't aware of this good free software before hand..
http://www11.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=5329804&extra=page=2
(u need an account and some chinese word knowledge)

trueman12345 said:
Ok, there is no point to argue, if you really find yourself having problem with GPS update lag, then give it a try. No harm indeed...
In HK, there are people the validity of the work around. GPS proxy might also work as well( i think it is the same principal) just i wasn't aware of this good free software before hand..
http://www11.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=5329804&extra=page=2
(u need an account and some chinese word knowledge)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite agree it's worth trying, and the application has other uses too.
Mike

FYI: I got GPS to work easily by installing GPSViewer, opening COM4/4800baud and getting located. After that, using Google Maps was a breeze; total "trick" took me about 1 minute to figure out which is way quicker than some other workarounds on the internet.

I was driving with iGuidance for about 1 hour this morning and I'm seeing different behavoir for this bug. iGuidance also has an excellent GPS signal viewer, mine was showing 8 out of 8 sattellites, all green, all the time (they turn red when not receiving signal from a sat). My map was moving about once per second or slightly faster. The program only paused once after about 30 minutes into the trip, for about 20-30 seconds. The iGuidance program's moving arrow's color also changes color based on signal quality of the combined sattelite lock, Green for good 3D mapping, Yellow for 2D when there are minimal sats for navigating, and Red for no signal data. During this pause the arrow went Red to indicate no data.
This seems like a bug to me.

The Great Kaiser GPS Comparo

A lot of folks (myself included) have been wondering how good the GPS in the Kaiser is. Since I own something like 7 GPS units at last count, I decided to grab all the handheld ones and do a comparison
In the best highly subjective and unscientific manner, I let each GPS lock in my window where easily 12 satellites are visible, then after it had stabilized brought them in another 5-6 feet to where my oldest GPS had always been borderline. I used Mapopolis and TomTom on the PocketPCs to display how many satellites (birds) and what signal strength each of the connected GPS's was locking. The standalone units I put on their satellite display to get the same info.
I watched them all for close to an hour, fiddling with positioning, orientation, etc and derived a completely unscientific rating for each. Keeping and holding more satellites with higher signal strength yielded more points, and I arbitrarily set the best one at 10 points, then tried to rate the others relative to that. Note that this is only signal holding ability, not lock time or ease of lock, and it isn't tested MOVING where a GPS can really show (or show up) it's signal holding ability. With all that said, hopefully these are better than nothing and will give folks some idea of where the Kaiser falls in the spectrum of GPS performance.
In order from "worst" to "best", 'Unit - My Rating':
Garmin eTrex Vista - 3
Holux GM270 CompactFlash Card - 4
Garmin eTrex VistaC - 7
AT&T Tilt (Kaiser) - 8
GlobalSat BT-338 BlueTooth - 10
The SirfStarIII in the BT-338 blows away all the other GPS units - it consistently held no less than 9 of the 12 birds, and typically 11 or 12 - and all with fantastic signal strength. Based on my past experience, I can say this is an awesome unit for lock time, lock durability, etc, etc, etc so I was unsurprised that it was the best performer here.
The Tilt/Kaiser actually did surprisingly well, typically 1-3 birds less than the BT-338, noticeably weaker signal strength and a lot more hopping around - i.e. holding 9 birds, but a different 9 from moment to moment. Test was done with QuickGPS data having been downloaded a few days ago, but QuickGPS executable not running.
The VistaC was another surprise - I've owned the original Vista since not long after it came out, and recently got a used VistaC. A lot more hopping than the Kaiser, but consistently holding 6-8 birds for a good solid fix. I had always assumed the GPS circuitry was common across the eTrex line, but the newer VistaC was a LOT better than my old Vista.
I don't recall which chipset is in the Holux - I think it was SirfStarII. I was never thrilled with this GPS and often had to use an external antenna in the car to get decent lock durability, so I was not shocked to find it near the bottom of the list.
I loved my Vista so I didn't really realize how much GPS technology has improved - it'd be tough sell to recommend one of these to anyone today. Wonderful device, but the new Vista HCx is likely to blow it away.
Well, it was a fun little project and I hope someone evaluating the Kaiser will find their existing GPS on my list and get an idea of how the Kaiser may perform in comparison.
Richard

Nice review.
It would be nice to see a similar review of the devices while you are moving.
At this moment, Tilt's GPS is completely useless for geocaching and walking because there is not way of disabling static navigation as you can do with SirfStarIII's gps. Even if you got information from 8 satellites there are moments where you position will freeze and it won't update even if you are walking.
Tilt's GPS only really works when you are driving.

I did a similar test back when I got my Kaiser about 6 weeks ago, running it and my BT-338. Results were pretty much the same.
However, more recently, it's been harder for my Kaiser to get an initial fix indoors, even with fresh QuickGPS data. When the Kaiser was new, it would get a fix within 30 seconds running in my living room -- now it can take up to 30 minutes if it gets a fix at all. Outdoors, it still gets quick fixes -- 10 to 30 seconds.

Have a Eten M700 and Kaiser and have some comparison. For GPS reception, I would rate M700 with full mark 10 and kaiser 7. The GPS signal is unbelievably strong on M700 as it gets a patch antenna inside.
I modify my kaiser a little so that the screen can be tilt up to almost 90 degree, I can just leave it on the dashboard when using tomtom.

staryon said:
Nice review.
It would be nice to see a similar review of the devices while you are moving.
At this moment, Tilt's GPS is completely useless for geocaching and walking because there is not way of disabling static navigation as you can do with SirfStarIII's gps. Even if you got information from 8 satellites there are moments where you position will freeze and it won't update even if you are walking.
Tilt's GPS only really works when you are driving.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used kaiser's GPS for cycling and it has worked fine with "compegps" application!

pepeto2001 said:
I've used kaiser's GPS for cycling and it has worked fine with "compegps" application!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For that it should be fine. Usually you got this problem is your speed is below 1.2 m/s (3.2 miles per hour)

Modify Kaiser?
Tonychen,
How did you modify the Kaiser to tilt almost 90 degrees? This would be awesome as the 'tilt" is not enough for me to use it on the dashboard of either of my cars.
Can you provide any pics of the mod you did and explain how you did it?
Thanks.

This would void your warranty, unless you really want it. I can write a small guide here if you are still interested.
Check the photo attached.

tonychen said:
This would void your warranty, unless you really want it. I can write a small guide here if you are still interested.
Check the photo attached.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't mind a tuturial would be great.

tonychen said:
This would void your warranty, unless you really want it. I can write a small guide here if you are still interested.
Check the photo attached.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on with this small guide we are (at least me) interested...

BUMP.
Guide please.

juiceppc said:
BUMP.
Guide please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I really care, but you might do better PM'ing the guy who said he modded his rather than bumping a GPS thread and hoping he responds
Just my $0.02,
Richard

I would just like to comment that I have not experienced this lockup of the GPS while moving at slow speeds. I've played around with TomTom while walking down a city street and it seemed to track speed and direction just fine, not that it was particularly useful in this manner. It consistently tracked my speed at 1-2mph and has never had this locking up or pausing that I've read about in other threads. I've tested with the original AT&T rom and one of the Big Storage AT&T modified roms with no issues.
-James

Compared with a Garmin Vista Cx, it seems more sensitive - it can lock onto three or four birds in the centre of the ground floor of my house while the Garmin is hard pressed to get a full lock even on the top floor.
Looking at the pattern of locks on a GPS monitor program, I get the impression that it is a lot less than 12 channel - anyone seen a specification? My overall impression is that it's a useful feature for non-critical navigation, but I still carry my Garmin for the serious stuff. The combination of GPS and 3g is wonderful - open up Live Search and look for Fast Food near "Here" - yes, Garmins have a POI database built in, but it is very limited compared with the combined contents of MSN and Google!
Martin
Follow up : I am really beginning to be quite impressed by the sensitivity of this GPS. I went into London by train yesterday and switched the GPS on sitting in the middle of a crowded carriage. I got a five bird lock within a minute and retained it for the entire journey (apart from long tunnels, of course). On several occasions it was reporting locks on as many as ten satellites. Accuracy was also pretty good - assessed by comparing position reported through Google Maps with observation through the window - certainly, when we stopped in stations, the position in Google matched well. I've tried the same with a Garmin Vista Cx - on the same route - and you are lucky to get any kind of fix without sitting at a window seat, with the GPS held close to the window.

Dead horse beating: Kaiser vs Visiontac GPS Tomtom review

I went through a few Windows Smartphones before getting my first PPC (a Motorola MPx) just over a year ago. I already had a Bluetooth GPS receiver: Visiontac VGPS 700 I was trying to use it with my Motorola A1200, with no luck. However, with the MPx, and Tomtom, I was able to navigate via GPS with my own GPS system as it were.
That setup quickly (within weeks) gave way to a Cingular 8525 paired to the Visiontac GPS and away I went. I travel a lot for work. From So Cal to (this past year) Mass (Boston), NYC, Kentucky, Ohio, Tenn, Utah, Arizona, NM, and so on. I've used the 8525 in all kinds of areas, from urban areas like San Francisco, NYC, Philly, LA, Cincinnati, Chicago, and so on to areas in the relative middle of nowhere such as the So Cal desert, some areas of Kentucky, PA, and TN I've been to the last year (way, way off the nearest road). Since I've had it, I've put probably driven 20,000-30,000 miles with the Visiontac and Tomtom on. I've got a decent idea of how quick it takes to get a lock when cold, how long to get a lock after getting off a plane in another portion of the country, and how many satellites it shows in Tomtom. I've checked it against hundreds of roadside speed warning signs, and used it to calibrate the speedometers of three Jeeps now.
Then, a last week, I get the ATT Tilt (aka 8925, aka Kaiser). I move my 6gb micro SD across to it, fire up Tomtom (which I've always run off the card- it makes it easier when flashing every other week.) and go. After getting the com port dialed in (COM 4) and the baud rate (started at 4800 like many on here said, now on 57500) I've noticed that the internal GPS of the Kaiser just doesn't compare with the Visiontac bluetooth unit.
I went to San Fran this weekend (from Riverside- about 380 miles) and drove around town up there all weekend using the new phone for directions. I put about 1100 miles on the vehicle, and the navigation on the Kaiser. After losing signal in some areas of the city and having to drive until it found a satellite again and recalculated a route, where I didn't remember losing it before on the old setup, and noting that instead of 5 bars shown for signal as on the Hermes, I see a fluxuating 3-5 bars on the Kaiser.
So, this morning on the way in to work, I fire up both units, side by side to see what the deal is. I was wondering if the Kaiser really was lacking where the Visiontac/Hermes setup didn't seem to be.
Sure enough, the Kaiser running Tomtom 6 shows 3-5 (most often 4) bars on open freeway where the Hermes shows 5 bars. In the GPS configuration settings on Tomtom I find what I believe to be the answer. The Visiontac GPS tracks 12 satellites, the Kaiser, tracks only 8 most of the time, occasionally will track 12.
If that wasn't enough to cause me to lose direction and location, the Visiontac GPS appears more sensitive. The way Tomtom shows how good the signal is, is by the height of a particular satellite's bar on a bar graph. If you were to divide the bar into 5ths, the Visiontac seems to constantly be a fifth higher (20% more sensitive) than the Kaiser's built in GPS.
As for battery usage, I get about 3.5 hours of navigation (along with a few phone calls using the Jawbone headset) with the Kaiser before I get the "charge battery to prevent data loss" warning. On the Hermes, I get about 5.5 hours, with the Visiontac GPS able to run to almost 8 hours before needing a recharge. I expected a loss in battery power, due to the unit also having to power the GPS chip. I'm not sure I expected 2 hours, but I'm not completely bummed over it. My GPS usage is largely in a vehicle, or inside, to find out how far something is, so I can plug it in if needed.
I have also noticed that Tomtom is faster to start on the Kaiser. It is faster to allow you to type in addresses to navigate to, or points of interest to look up, and it calculates the route quicker. Key press response in general are quicker than on the Hermes. I expected a little quicker, thanks to the added RAM, but not this much- they both have 400 mhz chipsets. Granted, it still isn't instant, but it is an improvement.
Phone Specs at time of test said:
Hermes:
Running Starbase64's 6 3.62 WWE/HTC Rom for Hermes
Stock Battery
Kaiser:
Running ATT as-delivered ROM 1.57.502.2 (08/25/07)
Stock Battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall:
I just wish there was a way to up the sensitivity and/or the number of satellites that the Kaiser's GPS tracked. Compared to the Visiontac VGPS 700, it just can't compete in urban environs or in heavily wooded areas. It looses signal too easily. And, while I haven't tried some of the larger bridges around here yet, I am left wondering how it will do under them. Aside from that, it is great to not have to carry around two items to navigate, I have no more bluetooth receiver falling off my dash when going around a corner, and if I have my phone, I can find a place for dinner, or find my way out of an unfamiliar area with 90 percent confidence. The Kaiser is quicker than the Hermes for navigation, and overall is accurate, however it does leave a little to be desired. Am I happy I went to the Kaiser? Absolutely. Am I going to be selling my Hermes and Visiontac? (the original plan) Probably not for a while.
Hopefully this helps any who are later to the game than I am and/or still sitting on the fence trying to decide whether or not to jump in.

Would adding the external antenna help, for the areas whre it is a pain?
I don't know what it looks like or how painful that would be, but it may be an option.

I'm not completely happy with the GPS performance of my Tytn2. I had a MDA Vario (pre-pre-decessor of the Tytn2) and an external Adapt-700 bt unit. That one worked brilliantly. Even inside a Renault (with the coated windows) it worked flawless. Alway perfect reception. It's different with my Tytn2. In the morning, it takes some time to get a fix. I was used to 10-15 seconds before a fix was there. Now it is sometimes 1 minute.
But...I've notices something. The QuickGPS program makes it work a lot better. I knew that it should improve the performance, but the program is a bit misleading. It says that once you retrieved the data, it's valid for six days. So...you'd be in the clear for the rest of the week so to say. But I noticed that when you do a 'refresh' in the morning (every day), it works much, much better. I can even get a fix where it wouldn't before.
So, my tip would be to run the QuickGPS every day, or every time before a drive.

Over2land
Another question. How well is TomTom performing for you 'quality of mapwise'? I've read a few posts complaining about how old the maps are for Nagigator 6, and especially for the U.S. Also comments about 'no rumored upgrade' for Navigator 6.
I just purchased it, so I got it for whatever it's worth. But just curious about what you are seeing.

ewingr said:
Over2land
Another question. How well is TomTom performing for you 'quality of mapwise'? I've read a few posts complaining about how old the maps are for Nagigator 6, and especially for the U.S. Also comments about 'no rumored upgrade' for Navigator 6.
I just purchased it, so I got it for whatever it's worth. But just curious about what you are seeing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Missed the first question, sorry.
I have no idea if an external wired GPS antenna would help it. I would hazard to say it couldn't hurt. However, with the Hermes, there was evidence put forth that the external antenna (for the radio/GSM) fried the output circuits or some such, rendering it useless as a phone. I'd be worried about that happening here. Also, I've got like 5 vehicles on the road right now I rotate through, or try to rotate through, and a hard-mounted wired antenna wouldn't work for me.
In San Fran, there are issues with Tomtom not knowing where and when I can or can't turn a certain direction which really annoyed me. In So Cal, there are certain areas (understandable with the housing boom) that it just doesn't have on the maps. Areas that are 3 or 4 years old still aren't there. I've also noticed the same thing in NJ, intersections don't exist in the maps and so forth. I guess really there is something I've noted everywhere I've gone. Tomtom always gets me there, often with less fan trouble than if I was one my own, I find it more accurate than Mapquest also.
They really do need map updating.
And, they really need to look at updating quickest routes. Half the time in my local area, I don't follow Tomtom's freeway suggestions due to congestion, which is persistent congestion that should be noted. Areas like the 15/91 interchange, the 10 between the 5 and 405, the 10 where it drops south to hit the 60, and so on.
Then again, I've not used any other map/ turn by turn software so I have nothing to compare it against either.

ewingr said:
Would adding the external antenna help, for the areas whre it is a pain?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have an external GPS antenna in my car. I didn't have time to hook it up yet, but I'll check if it makes a difference. With my previous GPS receiver, which I kept in my glove compartiment (hence the antenna), it worked well. Not that it was really needed, but I just wanted optimal reception.

This is a great post. I am trying to buy a used kaiser now so I don't need a extra gps receiver. Seems I need to consider it again.

What ROM are you using on your Kaiser? There have been great differences in GPS performance between ROMs. From general advice AGPS should be disabled too for best performance.
Personally I'm very happy with mine, I'm working a lot with different GPS modules, and the performance is as good as the best ones I have. Sat count might be a bit lower (which gives fewer bars in TomTom), but the performance is really similar.
As already noted, an external antenna could help. The typical GPS antenna you'll find in a stand-alone module is a 25x25x4mm ceramic block weighing 30gr, no need to say that it's impossible to fit such a thing in a phone, so obviously the integrated antennas in those are a lot less sensitive.
Of course our uses are different and if you always use the combo in your car it doesn't matter much if you have 2 separate devices. I tend to rather use it walking, running, biking, flying so in lots of different places and with a separate receiver I would of course not have it with me most of the times I'd have needed it. Having the integrated one is great for me, even if there's a little tradeoff in performance.

I am using Romeos 4.2 and have never had a problem with my gps on mt TYTNII. I get a fix indoors which I cannot do with my Garmin Rino no external antenna required.

Below par GPS performance of Diamond

Hi everyone,
Have anyone noticed the slow calculation/refresh rate of GPS once it's active and navigating? Hold it in your hand and walk, there will be no refresh rate at all ! Your speed will be at 0 km/hr and the co-ordinates will not change at all. If you are in a car and it's stand still or on a traffic signal, or if there's a traffic jam and you are standstill and very immediately you have to turn right/left, you are sure to lose your way since it takes some time after the vehicle is in motion already to calculate and refresh your actual position and speed. Even when you are driving, there's a constant slow refresh rate of around 4 seconds. i.e. say you are accelerating the speed of your car, notice the speed being shown on the GPS software, it'll show your actual speed at a delay of 4/5 seconds. Same goes when you apply brakes, your speed suddenly goes down but the GPS will take it's time to reflect the correct speed.
I must say I am very disappointed with the GPS performace since my last phone was Trinity, it's GPS chip is just normal/ no agps but it's performance is much better than diamond's GPS. Trinity's GPS is immediate refresh rate with no such delays at all.
Test your diamond GPS observing what I said in this post and please post results here.

Are u sure it`s GPS issue not an software one ? Which software do you use for navigation ?

It's not a software issue since I've used TomTom and Garmin MobileXT with same results.

Same issue here!
Plus, the serial port keeps disconnecting of the internal GPS receiver keeps on disconnecting...
Which radio version have you on your device? This for sure software related (firmware, GPS navigation software or drivers)...
HastaSSSS

Have you enabled the AGPS on tweak? I found with this on the port would consistently connect and disconnect. Plus the refresh rate on TomTom was very very slow either driving or walking.
Today I turned AGPS off as where I travel it's not really needed anyway and bam!
Refresh rate both driving and walking is as good as my TomTom unit.
Today I drove with them both on and they were virtually in sync on the maps and spoken directions all the way. Very pleased.
Oh and ensuring "Receive all beams" is off in connections can help with TomTom too.
My details in case this has anything to do with it...
ROM : 1.37.405.1
Date: 10/06/2008
Radio: 1.00.25.03
Protocol: 52.26a.25.09H

And can you change the gpx settings under WM settings?
Even if I try to change the baud rate, when I go inside the configuration file, it's back to 4800 again...
HastaSSSS

This is a common problem with modern GPS chipsets - the way that they reduce multipath interference (from tall buildings, etc.) means that they often ignore movements below a certain speed (which can be often higher than walking pace).
Assuming that the HTC Touch Diamond uses the SirfStar 3 chipset (does anyone know for sure), this problem could theoretically be reduced by altering the 'static navigation' setting (see point 4 in this post for more details on static navigation and why it results in poor low-speed accuracy). However, how you'd actually tell the chipset to disable this feature, I don't know...
On an unrelated note, I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the sensitivity of the GPS chipset in the Diamond - it's managed to get lock in the middle of the my house, which is an amazing feat, and not one I've seen either my MTK or SirfStar standalone receivers achieve.

I am also pretty satisfied with the GPS performance. Can't complain on that!

snoopstah said:
This is a common problem with modern GPS chipsets - the way that they reduce multipath interference (from tall buildings, etc.) means that they often ignore movements below a certain speed (which can be often higher than walking pace).
Assuming that the HTC Touch Diamond uses the SirfStar 3 chipset (does anyone know for sure), this problem could theoretically be reduced by altering the 'static navigation' setting (see point 4 in this post for more details on static navigation and why it results in poor low-speed accuracy). However, how you'd actually tell the chipset to disable this feature, I don't know...
On an unrelated note, I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the sensitivity of the GPS chipset in the Diamond - it's managed to get lock in the middle of the my house, which is an amazing feat, and not one I've seen either my MTK or SirfStar standalone receivers achieve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a good theory, no doubt about that, but I think it's more a lag in the communication between the receiver and the phone, or a lag on the rendering of the map.
Your explanation doesn't foresee as well the reason why the connection keeps falling...
But I've learned already something with your post. Didn't knew about that "feature" or "characteristic" of the SIRF III receivers.
HastaSSSS

My experience with the Diamonds GPS is 100% better than on my HTC P3600.
I primarly use the GPS with google maps in Canada, and Jamaica and it gives me accurcy to about 15 feet.. where with the 3600 it was accurate to about 30-40 feet. Normally have about 7 to 8 stats connected. Didn't touch any of the default settings on the phone.
I also tested with Live Search and GPS tuner v5 and works perfectly. Fast lock times (5-10seconds)....
Chris

snoopstah said:
This is a common problem with modern GPS chipsets - the way that they reduce multipath interference (from tall buildings, etc.) means that they often ignore movements below a certain speed (which can be often higher than walking pace).
Assuming that the HTC Touch Diamond uses the SirfStar 3 chipset (does anyone know for sure), this problem could theoretically be reduced by altering the 'static navigation' setting (see point 4 in this post for more details on static navigation and why it results in poor low-speed accuracy). However, how you'd actually tell the chipset to disable this feature, I don't know...
On an unrelated note, I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the sensitivity of the GPS chipset in the Diamond - it's managed to get lock in the middle of the my house, which is an amazing feat, and not one I've seen either my MTK or SirfStar standalone receivers achieve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's true according to the static navigation thing? how can we disable it on our diamond? Can somebody throw a clue?
About AGPS, I haven't enabled it, or it's enabled by default in the new rom? 1.37 one?

It's like this with even AGSP disabled so it's certainly not the AGPS which is causing this delay in reception.

After googling and studying, i've found out that it's indeed the STATIC NAVIGATION which has been enabled by default on the diamond chip. Somone have any idea how to disable it? Please share

nice to see that I m not the only one with that problem, I was asking myself if it was my device who was deffective. On my cruise there was no lag at all.

I took mine out walking today and noticed it was telling me I was stood still for about 30 yds.
So I took it and my standalone out and the Diamond is rubbish but my big tomtom unit is great!
What's the point of GPS in a handheld device if you can't use it walking?
I hope this is easy to remedy.

I'm pretty sure that they don't use SirfStar III which would present much better GPS performance. Most probably they just incorporated the GPS section in the Qualcomm processor. Of course you can buy a SirfStar III Bluetooth receiver, but it doesn't make sense if you already got GPS built-in the device. I can only say that I was using HTC Hermes with SS III BT receiver a lot (more than 8 hours daily) and when I heard that HTC Kaiser had GPS build-in I was very happy untill almost immediately after trying TomTom on my new device I noticed worse performance. With Diamond it's the same story. Unfortunately...

A-GPS.
When I got the phone I installed the advanced config tool to adjust soms settings.
I also noticed A-GPS was off.
So I was thinking that turning it on might be a smart move.
Which it wasn't. TomTom reception was bad, waiting minutes would give maybe 4 sattelites en losing them constantly.
After turning of A-GPS again.. Whitin secconds .. I got 8 sattelites with a steady signal.
TomTom works fine for me now.
Excuses for my bad english...

for "foot" navigation the igo8 has a special setup along with "car", "bicycle"' "public transportation" and so on...why blame the diamond? blame yr navigation software! how many ppl said their navigation is the best? best, my ass the best.
be cool, soon igo8 is going to be avaible for diamond also
as for the diamond's gps...it works inside my house, first floor !!!

I really feel for you guys. GPS is one thing I definitely want to be working perfectly, and I can say with the diamond so far that has been the case. I'm getting a lock in about 15-20 seconds with about 12 satellites. I'm also using QuickGPS with no problems. I have been using the new TomTom 7 and it is absolutely fantastic!!!!!! Best handheld GPS solution I've ever owned, and I don't see why it would not be identical to a TomTom PNA!

My GPS is also not accurate, I'm using Tomtom7 and its telling me my home address is atleast 30 metres away when I'm at my home address. What the hell!!!!
I have tried enabling and disabling the A-GPS option and still its the same result.

Turning Static Navigation off in Diamond?

Hi there,
It's indeed confirmed now that the gps chipset in diamond is Static navigation enabled, i.e. it won't refresh your location and speed if you are walking, it'll just lock your last gps location instead of updating it continuously while you walk. So it's nearly makes it impossible to walk to your destination i.e. you can't geocache at all.
I hope anybody has some clue about turning it off.

Have you tried something like SirfTech - if you can get it to connect to the internal GPS device (and assuming it is a SirfStar chipset, which I still don't know for sure?) then you should be able to toggle the static navigation setting. There are instructions right at the very bottom of that page on how to adjust the static navigation setting.
The other remaining question is how long this change will persist - hopefully it should persist until the battery is removed, but it depends how the power to the GPS receiver is switched - it's possible that switching off the PDA, or even putting it into standby, could cause the GPS receiver state to reset to default.

Its not a sirf chipset and those tools wont work on it

someone1234 said:
Its not a sirf chipset and those tools wont work on it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that. I guess we people will have to live with it. There's a HTC GPS utility from HTC which works on this qualcomm chip but I am no expert if there's any setting which can turn static navigation off. For someone wanna give a try to the HTC tool, download the attached file.

i just did a quick test with Diamond running TomTom walking along the street. It works fine in pedestrian mode. My actual postion was accurate at all times during the test. Diamond GPS is suitable for navigation in pedestrian mode.

Probably you have not tryed with some device with really good SirfStar III GPS, like ETEN X500.

@panosha
my point is: walking navigation mode is indeed available with Diamond running TomTom. I am not to compare GPS performance of Diamond directly with Sirf III equipped devices.
That said, if you take a look at my signature, you would certainly notice that I have also few HTC Sirf III equipped phones presently and not to mention TomTom GO 510. I am quite certain that Diamond is quite usable for walking routes..

Is usable for walking routes, but it has mediocre behavior for this use, concerning the good GPS devices.

@panosha.
mediocre behavior indeed.
I was referring to the very first post in this thread:
.. it won't refresh your location and speed if you are walking, it'll just lock your last gps location instead of updating it continuously while you walk. So it's nearly makes it impossible to walk to your destination i.e. you can't geocache at all...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, it will refresh GPS location as you walk.
yes, it will update GPS position fairly constantly.
yes, it is possible to walk to a destination and geocache.

Sorry but I have to disagree.
While the Diamond keeps up with a standalone device while driving, I took them both out walking today and the Diamond is terrible while walking. In fact I did the route three times and it was always approximately 30 feet out of synch which is no good at all in a city environment.
If anyone has any idea how to improve this I'd certainly be happy to hear it.
I have a P1i and external receiver and at this rate I may have to return the Diamond and go back to it, which is a shame.

Yeah. That's the point. It indeed keeps up while driving but crap while walking.

Folks, I think it would be really important to find a solution for this problem.
It seems that it has definitely to do with static navigation and
is no problem of any kind of application.
Since I have my diamond I used a lot of different gps software,
but the lag is always the same.
This is indeed very bad, thus the reception quality is superb!
My last HTC was a trinity which had also a Qualcom chipset,
but with this device I never noticed such a behavior.
Somehow it must be possible to turn the static navigation of...

Are there any news so far?

I guess nobody could figure it out yet. WE have to keep our fingers crossed

Is there any other news?
Disabling static navigation would be greate!!
Does anyone know the brand/model of the gps chip?

And there's always a lag between your actual position and the position shown in the GPS software....
Sometimes this lag is more than 50m...
HastaSSSS

I am trying to see if the Qualcomm ONEgps - GPS can have its programming changed with QPST, but unfortunately I havent found any information on getting it to run with Diamond. I think that would be the only way to turn off static nav, as the system is not Sifir or what ever its called, so non of the current "static nav" off solutions will work. I have OziExplorer running and I get the issue. I also noticed that there is a lot of unecessary activiting on decent/assend info, its as though it has quite a unstable 3d lock.
Can anyone else using TomTom pedestrian mode could confirm if there is no delay (more then 10-30 seconds) between starting walking and position beginning to update?
Thanks!
D.

does tt has special option for pedestrian? maybe the problem is tt and NOT the hardware (gps-diamond)??
i am using igo and it has special options for pedestrian, for car, bicycle, public transportation and even emergency vehicle. seeing this made me think that the program will react different at different speeds.
i did not tried the pedestrian option but i promise to do it and come back with the results.

Sorry about the dumb question, bust how can I switch to pedestrian mode in TomTom???

It's the same s*ht
The GPS on this receiver, for the time being, really sucks...
I'm hopping that someone will figure out a solution, or with a release of a new radio ROM.
Even when I'm driving, the gps lags so much.... Drives me crazy!
When I stop on a red light, the gps still indicates speed for 15s more or less, until it actually stops on the place where my car actually is...
I wonder if the gou acceleration driver is actually installed...it could happen that this delay is due to the fact that the CPU has to do all the work, and since the resolution is VGA, it means extra work, which the CPU can't handle 100%...
HastaSSSS