OK,
Just trying to start a discussion here about the thought process I'm going through, wanted to see if anyone else was having the same dilemma.
Do I buy an unlocked Kaiser or wait for the Cingular 8925?
1) My wallet tells me to wait for the Cingular device - I'm due for an upgrade, I get a hardware discount through my company, and it is guaranteed to be cheaper.
but.....
2) I watched the unboxing video of the Tytn II retail unit, and it just looks like they threw in lots of goodies, nice case, TomTom software, etc. I doubt AT&T will throw in anything but the phone and a stylus.
and.....
3) we know that the unlocked version is fully featured and won't be crippled at all, whereas the AT&T version may disable GPS (except w/ their service) and/or the ROM may suck compared to the full HTC rom.
and finally.....
4) I can get an unlocked version NOW, versus waiting until god-knows-when (Oct/Nov?) to get an 8925.
The one other thing stopping me from going w/ an unlocked version is it seems to be mainly UK retailers (or US retailer selling a UK version). I want to wait until I can buy one in the U.S., with a U.S. power adapter. Has anyone seen this yet?
Thoughts?
its a tough call for myself im thinking just going HTC unlocked one and then when the 8925 comes out trying to add some of there rom stuff like cingular video app ect as its free with my data plan.
Another reason for the HTC one vrs the ATT one is ATT app locks them so you will have to wait a bit for someone to get a unlocking system working for it. With the 8525 it took 2-4 months if i remember correctly before there was a unlock avil for it.
Pricewise shrug if you can afford the htc one over waiting I would not even consider it then.
Well I CAN afford the HTC unit, doesn't mean I should waste money on it though
Realistically: AT&T unit is the best choice for price.
Preferably: Users on this forum would choose the htc if they can afford/justify it because it wont have nerfed hardware or software which the ATT version is likely to have.
Hoenstly, I would go with the HTC branded version before the AT&T. First, the HTC for sure will have GPS, the front facing camera, HSUPA, the case, and it's alrady unlocked. Worst case scenario, you have to buy a generic charger, or use your old one because it comes with the UK charger which we can't use. There is a lot more that your getting with the phone for the extra money. Especially if you have it to spend. AT&T always finds a way to spoil a situation becuause of their future plans an ideas. If you get the HTC branded Kaiser, at least there are no curve balls and you know that you're getting everything that the phone is capable of.
Triune said:
First, the HTC for sure will have GPS, the front facing camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is that? Is it possible that the AT&T model doesn't come with those features???
its more then likely ATT will not have the front camera as they do not support 2way video calling. also if the BB 8800 is any sign they will cripple the internal GPS if not take it out compleatly and force you to use there tower based telanav service.
Man, if I could afford, I would not even be asking this question. I would have a TyTN II on my hand right now.
Good points.
On the charger issue - won't HTC soon release a U.S. retail version of the Kaiser? Or are they prevented from doing so because of their relationship w/ AT&T?
there sales dep they use told me on the phone yesturday they will be selling them. she said they get them in on the 14th and there orders sould start going out on the 18th. Not sure if that ment u can order on the 14th or have to wait till the 18th tho.
Also note there sales dep does do contracts for ATT and all there americas carriers so they may or may not offier the unlocked one.
you can check there sales page from the HTC america site it send you to there sales front of letstalk.com
There has been people on here and other blogs claiming that AT&T may not offer some of these things. For instance, the 8525 didn't have the front camera, the case, and a few other things. AT&T is known for stripping down phones. Plus, even if AT&T doesn't offer the video conferencing now, when they do. you'll already have the capabilities to do it.
I expect the only crippling of GPS will be the lack of free Tom-Tom software. Of course telnav will be on there for them to make money but ATT would not disable GPS as other than that why buy a 8925 if you have a 8525. You can add your own GPS software, however the cost with that may bring you near just buying an unbranded Kaiser in the first place. I am waiting for the flame as to all the other great enhancements by upgrading, but I am talking about real useful stuff...when consumers spend $400 to change PDA it better be for something more than a little more RAM that they probably never maxed out the RAM on the 8525.
Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any point in going that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD
RacerX10 said:
Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any pointing that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree except I think GPS will be fully functional minus approx $100 TomTom software, so it still savings to wait for ATT version.
RacerX10 said:
Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any pointing that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you'll pay at least $20 per month more for the PDA data plan
magnamar said:
Another reason for the HTC one vrs the ATT one is ATT app locks them so you will have to wait a bit for someone to get a unlocking system working for it. With the 8525 it took 2-4 months if i remember correctly before there was a unlock avil for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly - the Cingular 8525 released November '06 and the pof free unlocker was out before release day. But recall that the TyTN had been out for almost a year by the time 8525 released - so free unlocker predated 8525 but not TyTN. imei-check had unlockers even earlier.
Richard
wpbear said:
when consumers spend $400 to change PDA it better be for something more than a little more RAM that they probably never maxed out the RAM on the 8525.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I'm *hoping* the 128MB RAM brings performance of the Kaiser back up to the level of my iPAQ5555 on Mapopolis. Moving from a "400MHz 128MB" iPAQ to a "400MHz 64MB" 8525/TyTN made Mapopolis MUCH less useful - loading Los Angeles alone kills the 8525, and is quick as a bunny on the iPAQ
I'd pay the upgrade in a heartbeat if I were sure I'd get Mapopolis back up to iPAQ performance! My struggle is $800 to *maybe* get back my performance vs wait and pay $450 to *maybe* get back my performance.
FWIW, I switched from a CF GPS on the iPAQ to a BT GPS because I found reception to be MUCH better having the GPS on the dash of the car vs attached to the iPAQ in my hand. So I like the integrated GPS option, but I don't know that it'll really save me from using my existing BT GPS. GPS has improved a fair bit since my Holux CF days, but I don't know if that'll be enough to overcome the antenna positioning issues.
Just my $0.02,
Richard
kept it simple..
my rationalization: post my thoughts in the forum and hope that someone tells me i made the right decision. (just kidding!)
for me the purchase amounts to a redistribution of discretionary spending. i lowered discretionary spending for a few weeks to finance the (irrational) "early adopter" cost of a hot new toy. at the first opportunity i purchased the toy without hesitation. i'll deal with buyer's remorse for 24hrs or until the new toy gets here. once i have the new toy in my hands, the need to rationalize will inexplicably disappear...
in other words, i was willing to pay the premium cost of getting what i wanted when i wanted it. i know i'll enjoy the new toy...lol
just my $0.02 (that i have left after buying the new toy )
rsolomon said:
Actually I'm *hoping* the 128MB RAM brings performance of the Kaiser back up to the level of my iPAQ5555 on Mapopolis. Moving from a "400MHz 128MB" iPAQ to a "400MHz 64MB" 8525/TyTN made Mapopolis MUCH less useful - loading Los Angeles alone kills the 8525, and is quick as a bunny on the iPAQ
I'd pay the upgrade in a heartbeat if I were sure I'd get Mapopolis back up to iPAQ performance! My struggle is $800 to *maybe* get back my performance vs wait and pay $450 to *maybe* get back my performance.
FWIW, I switched from a CF GPS on the iPAQ to a BT GPS because I found reception to be MUCH better having the GPS on the dash of the car vs attached to the iPAQ in my hand. So I like the integrated GPS option, but I don't know that it'll really save me from using my existing BT GPS. GPS has improved a fair bit since my Holux CF days, but I don't know if that'll be enough to overcome the antenna positioning issues.
Just my $0.02,
Richard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mapoplis should be replaced by tomtom anyway but thats my opinion.
as far as gps reception in the car...there is a cheap wired ext antenna already for the device
wpbear said:
mapoplis should be replaced by tomtom anyway but thats my opinion.
as far as gps reception in the car...there is a cheap wired ext antenna already for the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TomTom performance on the 8525 certainly beats Mapopolis on that machine, but the UI is years behind: No text-to-speech???? In the 21st century??? WTF! TomTom POI management is a joke compared to Mapopolis, try to add your own Restaurant in TomTom - it's gotta be in a custom category and thus won't show up in all the Restaurant searches.
Yes, I did the wired antenna thing for my CF GPS and it helps, but it's yet one more wire. The BT is wonderful, no wires, better signal.... Don't get me wrong, I'll be tickled if Kaiser GPS is usable!
Richard
Related
I recently bought an ETEN M500 because of the announcement that it would be upgradable to WM2005 and the size of the device. The extra software on the M500 is nothing short of amazing. Never have I seen a pocket pc with so many apps out of the box. I did not have to install SPB Pocket Plus, Pocket Zen or Voice Command. It had similar programs already. And voice dial over bluetooth, WOW, it's about time. So why am I returning to the XDA II. Signal strength. The M500 has horrible reception, I get 4 bars in my house with my XDA II. The M500 couldn't get a signal without me walking outside, not even in the garage with the door open, I had to be outside away from any trees in the open. Yeah, crazy. Maybe they should have spend less time on the apps and focused on building an adequate phone first. None of that matters if you can't use the thing. I also note, even when it showed full bars, the voice of the other person would break in and out. Using my HS820 with the XDA II no one can even tell I am using a headset. Using it with the ETEN, the first thing I heard from everyone was, " what the hell is wrong with your phone". Maybe I just got a defecto, but that would be a reason to keep away as well.
o...is it really a bad machines? How much u paid for it???
I was in the same boat kermit780, but the M500s still a very good device and theres no way in hell I'd go back to a present mda/xda/imate-type product.
This phone was not made with North America in mind (yet) so there are obvious frequency issues- particularly with the 1900mhz range. Eten is on the ball when it comes to issue with this product though. If not the upcoming firmware upgrade, I'm sure the next one will have some sort of radio fix. I'm trying to sell one right now- the primary reason being I needed something with qwerty. The lack of signal as annoying as it was- only secondary because I know it will be a fix to that soon enough.
And no I wouldn't buy a pda2k for that. Its not the size issue- I like going throgh these forums to see whats new out there...not to spend 3+ hours a day searching for a "hack" for something or other. Down right embarassing the amount of money spent on htc phones and the guy standing next to me on the subway with his $200 americanized crap technology Isn't so crap after all because it actually does (did) more than my mda2.
Just my opinion though...M500s a very, very good phone. It will be a great phone once the frequency issue is resolved but doesn't matter if you're not in N American anyway.
For Sale...Cheap. See what real voicedail is like - Plus $20 off for Western Union payment instead of Paypal (avoiding Paypal Final Price Fees so you save...)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5794520477&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MESE:IT&rd=1
I have a TYTN with schaps 3.54c WM6 (HTC HOME, kaiser comm mngr) and a BT GPS (MTK based)+2gb.. Mostly used for TT6, email, internet and appointments.
is it worth to upgrade to the kaiser or should I wait for it's successor?
Maarten_NL said:
I have a TYTN with schaps 3.54c WM6 (HTC HOME, kaiser comm mngr) and a BT GPS (MTK based)+2gb.. Mostly used for TT6, email, internet and appointments.
is it worth to upgrade to the kaiser or should I wait for it's successor?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you should ask your pocket or wallet this question...
Obviously the tilting screen, built-in GPS, larger memory, and being slightly thinner all makes me want to have it ... but its a matter of $$$$$$$$$$ now
sell your hermes now and recoup some costs then be first to buy kaiser.
I have a sim-only in the hermes and my business contract in my normal phone is due to end in october so I can get it relativly cheap (take a €80/100 dualsim 1 year contract, the its about €100-200 ).
Can the screen do a normal-slide too?
And does it fit in a hermes desktopcradle?
I always like new shiny things so I think I'll shove out the cash
Sell your hermes now
wpbear said:
sell your hermes now and recoup some costs then be first to buy kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
I sold my Hermes (vodafone III 1605) still had the box everything.. got 300 euro for it that's about 400$.. now sitting and waiting with the money in the bank for the kaiser.
I hope to get 150/200 for it, a bit battered because I dropped it once (small crack in body and corner a bit shaved off) but works 100%.
I also sold my 8525 while I could still get the most out of it. Now, I am using a crappy samsung phone until the 8925 or the Tilt comes out! I had long been contemplating on buying a GPS and now my problem will be solved soon!
sherpa said:
I also sold my 8525 while I could still get the most out of it. Now, I am using a crappy samsung phone until the 8925 or the Tilt comes out! I had long been contemplating on buying a GPS and now my problem will be solved soon!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get my Blakcjack tomarrow until the Kaiser comes. I hope I can manage with a blackjack since I am used to the 8525.
sherpa said:
I also sold my 8525 while I could still get the most out of it. Now, I am using a crappy samsung phone until the 8925 or the Tilt comes out! I had long been contemplating on buying a GPS and now my problem will be solved soon!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also using crappy eircsson K610i till the kaiser comes out...
although If i can come across a cheap tytn 100euro I'll get one
I am also trying to make the same decision. I just got my Hermes (8525) two days ago off of a guy for $220, but now that I see this is about to come out I am tempted to sell it I could probably get $300 or so for it if I do it soon before the tilt comes out. It came with an extra extended 2800 mAh battery and stuff. My motivations for the upgrade would be the obvious ram upgrade but more importantly builtin gps. I really want gps but I haven't purchased a bluetooth gps unit yet. My last concern is that I am with tmobile so I would nee to unlock the phone. How long does it usually take for an unlocker to come out? What are your opinions on everything?
well...I just got rid of my Hermes TyTn...I wasn't trying to make a profit, just trying to get back as much as I put into the phone....
can't wait until the Kaiser is released...
as everyone said b/f my post,,,the Kaiser overall is a better phone...
lude93 said:
well...I just got rid of my Hermes TyTn...I wasn't trying to make a profit, just trying to get back as much as I put into the phone....
can't wait until the Kaiser is released...
as everyone said b/f my post,,,the Kaiser overall is a better phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea same plan here hah...
so yea who wants my gimpy hermes? $250? eh?
Schaps 3.54c
Htc home
1gig
I sold my hermes.... I listed it on craigslist and a guy called me up this mourning and offered me more than I was asking for it if I would meet him. I got $360 for it. I saved him from the tragic fate of paying too much for a Herald he was just about to drop a little more on. he didn't wanna try and unlock an AT&T phone himself he was afraid so he bought mine instead and now he has twice the ponies of a Herald and I have $360 to put towards my kaiser
Maarten_NL said:
I have a sim-only in the hermes and my business contract in my normal phone is due to end in october so I can get it relativly cheap (take a €80/100 dualsim 1 year contract, the its about €100-200 ).
Can the screen do a normal-slide too?
And does it fit in a hermes desktopcradle?
I always like new shiny things so I think I'll shove out the cash
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it slides out normal(like the Hermes) then you can "tilt" it up.
As for the 2nd question, I dont know since the specs of the Kaiser are a tad bit different than that of the hermes
ok.. does someone have a clear bottomside picture to check where the USB port is?
sold my Tytn
I sold it for $500 including a GPS receiver. Waiting to get either a Tilt or an HTC Kaiser depending on the price... it seems the Tilt(AT&T) is going to be around 600 to renew contract do not know how much the Kaiser. It really makes a difference on the two units but more on the money.
terracot said:
I sold it for $500 including a GPS receiver. Waiting to get either a Tilt or an HTC Kaiser depending on the price... it seems the Tilt(AT&T) is going to be around 600 to renew contract do not know how much the Kaiser. It really makes a difference on the two units but more on the money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dam I`m defenatly getting Kaiser as soon as it hits the ATT shelfs, but seening how good you guys are selling your phones I`m thinking about selling my first !!! Just dont know what I will do with out it You guys think the prices will drop really bad for the 8525 Hermes Tytn as soon as the kaiser released ?
GO KAISER!!!
I work for AT&T in the U.S. and I met with the HTC reps last week. I played with this thing for an hour and a half. It was amazing!! The best part, they are sending me 2 free ones. One to hack and one to show my customers. I can't freakin wait!!!!
The tilt and the Kaiser are the same thing. We are just calling it the Tilt.
I didn go for it... last month a friend bought one but it didn't convince me shelling out that extra cash for just GPS, slightly sleeker exterior and that bit of extra memory.
Waiting for the TYTN III
I read on this other forum http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/htc-p4450-kaiser/89014-htc-p4450-release-rumor-thread-4.html in this thread they say that it will be released in like November. They say that the person mention this did not say who his source was it still worried me cuz that is the month the 8525 was released. Additionally they mention the 8925 will not have the front facing camera nor will it have built in GPS!!!
I personally will probably boycott AT&T if this is true or at least petition this BS. I mean seriously I love my 8525 but I am getting sick and tired of at&t stripping features out of the damn devices. I am wondering if any of these claims have any value or are they just more incoherent gibberish from the internet.
Any thoughts?
I would entirely believe they could strip out those features. The front facing camera is useless in the usa as we have no infrastructure to use it. The GPS now, that's the sticky subject. Yes, they could release it and have one of the first devices ever in the usa to support built in standalone gps... But they have a service they sell at $10 or $15 a month to do the same thing. Releasing this phone would take away "revenue" as far as their bean counters will be concerned. It doesn't matter how many of those people would or would not pay for it, it's just a matter of potential revenue to them.
What will happen? That's still up in the air, but rest easy knowing it's still easy enough to get a import if need be!
No GPS?
I don't care if they leave out the front camera. But if AT&T is dumb enough to disable the GPS, I'm buying an unlocked Kaiser, period. I hate it when companies cripple perfectly good technology. It's not even like they would be getting revenue from GPS if they crippled it - they'd just be preventing us from using free GPS.....
Shadowmite said:
I would entirely believe they could strip out those features. The front facing camera is useless in the usa as we have no infrastructure to use it. The GPS now, that's the sticky subject. Yes, they could release it and have one of the first devices ever in the usa to support built in standalone gps... But they have a service they sell at $10 or $15 a month to do the same thing. Releasing this phone would take away "revenue" as far as their bean counters will be concerned. It doesn't matter how many of those people would or would not pay for it, it's just a matter of potential revenue to them.
What will happen? That's still up in the air, but rest easy knowing it's still easy enough to get a import if need be!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In regard to the lack of support for the front facing camera I thought they were planning on do the whole video share thing? I even found the option for video share on the wm6 beta I put on my girlfriends blackjack. In regard to the bean counters and potential loss of revenue? As far as I know the gps module does not determine who one will use for navigation. I currently have a gps chip through at&t however the same one is available elsewhere. Furthermore, telenav is offered to other carriers as well. The only way I can see this taking money away from them is it came with not only the chip but the software (maps) as well. If it does not come with maps I will still most likely stay with telenav through at&t.
What will happen? That's still up in the air, but rest easy knowing it's still easy enough to get a import if need be![/QUOTE]
Yeah, heres the other thing. I am aware I can get the kaiser and use my at&t sim but I doubt I could find the kaiser for $100 or so. I have a contact I send almost 30 customers a year to so I get the supreme hook up. My beef is with AT&T, I think they need to quit being so f_cking retarded and give their loyal customers the device they demand. Unaltered!!!
I am actually surprised they didnt take away the touch screen LOL, bunch of frickin idiots, hey we should all chip in and buy them a new brain. According to my calculations it should take about a dollar to upgrade from their existing
Ill throw in the first .02
AT&T has in the works a video call service.
The iPAQ has offered GPS for a long time.
There is no reason to remove GPS from the 8925 and I seriously doubt this would happen. I COULD see them removing the front camera though.
I think Ive decided to just buy an unlocked HTC instead of getting the Cingular 8925 because this phone will more than likely be nerfed.
evolution_theory said:
AT&T has in the works a video call service.
The iPAQ has offered GPS for a long time.
There is no reason to remove GPS from the 8925 and I seriously doubt this would happen. I COULD see them removing the front camera though.
I think Ive decided to just buy an unlocked HTC instead of getting the Cingular 8925 because this phone will more than likely be nerfed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note what AT&T is doing to the blackberrry 8800 series ... they have neutered the GPS so that it only works if you sign up for the $10/mo TeleNav services. I can confirm this is not a rumor, having seen some recent 8800 series 8800 series devices in the last week. There should be some way to hack around this if they do the same on the 8925, but I would predict a similar approach ... leave the radio in place, but disable without the consumer spending more $$.
ok.. let me throw in my 2 cents real quick.....
First off, GPS..
I have been told from a reliable source that it will be crippled through the ATT rom to be used with telenav only... like the 8800 crap.. but im sure that we here can figure something out on making it work otherwise, so im not worried about that...
Phone versions....
I have also heard from the same reliable source that there will be 3 different versions:
8900 - No camera's
8915 - Back 3MP no front camera
8925 - back 3MP camera, and front camera for VideoShare service...
Hope this clears the air for some people... my source is reliable, but things could change....
Hahahahaha
hahahaha...haha...ha....ahem.
Sorry, just looked at the Telenav site to understand what this service is. You get 'unlimited routes' for $10 a month or 10 routes for just $5.99 a month!
Charging per route for a GPS device. Amazing. Why don't they just charge us for each appointment we store in our Pocket PC calendar too?
"Hmmm, I really want to find my way to that new restaurant - but I wonder how many routes I've used this month?"
Ridiculous.
shogunmark said:
ok.. let me throw in my 2 cents real quick.....
First off, GPS..
I have been told from a reliable source that it will be crippled through the ATT rom to be used with telenav only... like the 8800 crap.. but im sure that we here can figure something out on making it work otherwise, so im not worried about that...
Phone versions....
I have also heard from the same reliable source that there will be 3 different versions:
8900 - No camera's
8915 - Back 3MP no front camera
8925 - back 3MP camera, and front camera for VideoShare service...
Hope this clears the air for some people... my source is reliable, but things could change....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info ... you always seem spot on with your sources... and that configuration would make some marketing sense
Any chance your source has any greater clarity on release dates? I figure I might as well plan on November, since that would be par for the course, but if you have anything more solid, let us know.
shogunmark said:
ok.. let me throw in my 2 cents real quick.....
First off, GPS..
I have been told from a reliable source that it will be crippled through the ATT rom to be used with telenav only... like the 8800 crap.. but im sure that we here can figure something out on making it work otherwise, so im not worried about that...
Phone versions....
I have also heard from the same reliable source that there will be 3 different versions:
8900 - No camera's
8915 - Back 3MP no front camera
8925 - back 3MP camera, and front camera for VideoShare service...
Hope this clears the air for some people... my source is reliable, but things could change....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can definately deal with this as I use telenav already and have found it to be reliable enough. I am wondering if your "reliable source has an idea on release date? Just curious. Thanks for your input.
weinson said:
Thanks for the info ... you always seem spot on with your sources... and that configuration would make some marketing sense
Any chance your source has any greater clarity on release dates? I figure I might as well plan on November, since that would be par for the course, but if you have anything more solid, let us know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
release date is one thing i cant get my hands on... it seems that they always like to change their minds... look at what happened with the 8525... i myself am planning on november, i will probably crack and buy a real kaiser before then..
swtaltima said:
I read on this other forum http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/htc-p4450-kaiser/89014-htc-p4450-release-rumor-thread-4.html in this thread they say that it will be released in like November. They say that the person mention this did not say who his source was it still worried me cuz that is the month the 8525 was released. Additionally they mention the 8925 will not have the front facing camera nor will it have built in GPS!!!
I personally will probably boycott AT&T if this is true or at least petition this BS. I mean seriously I love my 8525 but I am getting sick and tired of at&t stripping features out of the damn devices. I am wondering if any of these claims have any value or are they just more incoherent gibberish from the internet.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This all sounds like pure speculation.
swtaltima said:
What will happen? That's still up in the air, but rest easy knowing it's still easy enough to get a import if need be!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, heres the other thing. I am aware I can get the kaiser and use my at&t sim but I doubt I could find the kaiser for $100 or so. I have a contact I send almost 30 customers a year to so I get the supreme hook up. My beef is with AT&T, I think they need to quit being so f_cking retarded and give their loyal customers the device they demand. Unaltered!!!
I am actually surprised they didnt take away the touch screen LOL, bunch of frickin idiots, hey we should all chip in and buy them a new brain. According to my calculations it should take about a dollar to upgrade from their existing
Ill throw in the first .02[/QUOTE]
It could be worse - you could be a Verizon customer like I used to be.
AT&T has NOTHING on Verizon when it comes to phone crippling.
Disabling GPS would suck, it makes no sense other than greed.
Removing front camera may be a different story, as I recall hearing that the non-front-camera variant may have a slightly thinner form factor. Given that the phone is going to be targeted towards the business market where any camera can often be problematic, I can easily see AT&T choosing form factor over function in the case of a front-camera-or-not tradeoff if such a tradeoff situation exists.
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VS
(ATT Tilt on left and HTC Kaiser on right)
The ATT Tilt is slated for an October 5th release as of October 2nd.
Note: I do not yet own either a HTC Kaiser or an ATT Tilt. I am creating this guide to help both others and myself make a clear comparison between these two devices as there are significant differences not only in price but in features and design. This guide is incomplete as we don’t yet have the full specifications for the Tilt officially. As more information is posted in this thread I will continue to update this guide for your viewing pleasure!
ATT Tilt vs Kaiser – Pros and Cons (Out of box comparisons)
ATT Tilt Pros: 2
Pricing!
The number one reason to purchase a Tilt over a Kaiser is ATT’s price. At a projected $349.99 with a 2 year contract through ATT you can pick up a Tilt at just under $450 cheaper than the HTC Kaiser. Without a 2 year contract through ATT you can purchase a Tilt for $549.99 and still save about $250 over the Kaiser.
Support
By purchasing a Tilt from an ATT corporate store or retailer you’ll have ATT’s full technical support and replacement options as they’re eligible for your phone. Insurance beyond the manufacturer’s warranty. Also you’ll have a service shop/vendor in your local town. I have on multiple occasions taken mine or colleague’s phones to ATT to have them instantly switched out with the same or other phones. I work for a corporation so the relationship might be better on my end than the average consumer but either way I didn’t have to drop the phone in the UPS pickup.
ATT Tilt Cons: 4
Design!
ATT has redesigned the aesthetic and hardware aspects of the Kaiser.. to a point. Some of these may be Pros to different users.
ATT removed a second low megapixel front camera from the Tilt. This will eliminate any possible “One way” video options despite ATT’s future plans to release “Video Calls”. ATT has recolored/surfaced both the keyboard and top frame of the Kaiser. Beyond these two changes we don’t yet have enough information on the Tilt’s hardware changes to list further concerns in design change.
Software!
The Tilt appears to NOT include the HTC homescreen plug-in. The HTC Home plug-in is an awesome upgrade to WM6 which many users on these forums have grown to love. ATT will also include much BLOATWARE, meaning extra programs designed to draw in more revenue for ATT’s own services.
GPS
The Tilt is locked to Telenav through ATT.
Network
The Tilt is NOT unlocked and must remain on ATT’s network. Also ATT may charge increased data usage fees based on your phone model.
HTC Kaiser Pros: 4
Design!
The Kaiser has a more modern and less-bulky and flat design over the HTC Hermes, it's predecessor. The Kaiser has by general opinion been improved quite a bit. There are no extraneous gaudy chrome keys on the face of the Kaiser and the keyboard is a professional low-profile black.
The Kaiser includes the front video camera and is guaranteed to retain ALL original specifications of the device without any nerfs by specific providers. With the Kaiser you know you're getting a device as it was intended to be designed.
Software
The Kaiser comes standard with HTC's Homescreen. The HTC Home plug-in is an excellent addition to WM6 both functionally and aesthetically.
In the Kaiser's operating system you will find only HTC's essential software. Your device's memory will not be bogged down additional "useless" software.
GPS
The Kaiser GPS is not locked to a specific software and comes with Tom Tom standard.
Network
The Kaiser is unlocked and can be used on ANY network providers’ service. You may also be able to avoid additional charges based on phone model when using specific service providers because your phone is unlocked and indefinable.
HTC Kaiser Cons: 2
Price!
The HTC Kaisers only con compared to the Tilt thus far is the price. At $750 to $800 dollars and $250-350 more than the Tilt the Kaiser is a costly device/toy. You are essentially paying to have everything unnerfed and unlocked. You have to ask yourself if the price is worth having the best in design and functionality? Through the XDA Store and with XDA's added membership discount you can pick up the HTC Kaiser for as low as $679.99 with free shipping and no contract with any carrier.
Support
The Kaiser is ordered online and often times from a European retailer. This means you will have no in-store support and usually only a warranty covering the first year of use. You are very limited in terms of technical support and hardware replacement when ordering a Kaiser online. You can't trade it in at the local retailer and you can't call HTC (As far as I'm aware) for technical assistance. There is no insurance option.
In Conclusion
Both the ATT Tilt and HTC Kaiser are excellent phones, in fact they may be the highest end Windows Mobile devices on the market below $1000 USD. For those consumers and businesses looking for the best bang for the buck I would definitely recommend the ATT Tilt. In a corporate environment a front camera, or even a camera at all, is not necessary and often not even allowed. The price of the Tilt makes it very appealing to the bottom line and the design and software cons are not much concern to most business professionals.
For those seeking the latest and greatest without the limitations of "The Man" then the HTC Kaiser is your mark, provided your budget is up to par.
If you do decide to settle on the ATT Tilt for the obvious price difference you will have the option down the line to flash an XDA Developed rom onto that ATT phone to negate many of the negative features of the ATT Rom. By flashing a new rom to your phone your only real drawback to the Tilt will be the lack of a front facing camera and the possibly gaudy coloring of the ATT design. It is also very likely that on these XDA forums an unlock tool wil become available for the Tilt to allow it's use on non-ATT Networks.
great work fella
Most of the 8925 cons are pretty easily bypassed with a little research and elbow grease:
*It should be pertty easy to get the HTC Home plugin back on. It's been pulled from a Kaiser and repackaged to allow it to work on any WM5/6 phone already. Hopefully since this IS a Kaiser, it will work exactly the same as it does on the unlocked model.
*Unless they physically removed the GPS antenna, even if they disabled the GPS it should be pretty easy for the enterprising folks in the scene to get it back up and working again. I'm personnaly pretty sure it will be enabled still, based on the news from the people working with the ROM images.
*Bloatware shouldn't be much of an issue. You can remove it from the start menu, and regedit the links out of programs. With the 256MB of ROM and SDHC support, there's plenty of space to go around for cheap.
*Locked phones ALWAYS get unocked eventually.
That just leaves the appearance (yeah, it's bad) and the lack of the second camera. Not much can be done there, but it's going to be half the price (or less, likely, on Premier) so if those aren't worth paying double....
Illrigger said:
Most of the 8925 cons are pretty easily bypassed with a little research and elbow grease:
*It should be pertty easy to get the HTC Home plugin back on. It's been pulled from a Kaiser and repackaged to allow it to work on any WM5/6 phone already. Hopefully since this IS a Kaiser, it will work exactly the same as it does on the unlocked model.
*Unless they physically removed the GPS antenna, even if they disabled the GPS it should be pretty easy for the enterprising folks in the scene to get it back up and working again. I'm personnaly pretty sure it will be enabled still, based on the news from the people working with the ROM images.
*Bloatware shouldn't be much of an issue. You can remove it from the start menu, and regedit the links out of programs. With the 256MB of ROM and SDHC support, there's plenty of space to go around for cheap.
*Locked phones ALWAYS get unocked eventually.
That just leaves the appearance (yeah, it's bad) and the lack of the second camera. Not much can be done there, but it's going to be half the price (or less, likely, on Premier) so if those aren't worth paying double....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree and even considered the same points when writing the guide. I ultimately decided to go with out-of-box. I'll amend the guide this weekend to reflect the options XDA members could have to better match the devices.
Quick question to those who know AT&T pricing. I have seen a non-contract price of between $500-$600. I already have a Kaiser from import running on T-Mobile and am thinking of getting another cheaper second. If I had no AT&T service, could I just buy the non-contract version and hope for an unlock tool to become available?
I'm not sure you can purchase any phone from AT&T without also purchasing service. Even if you dont sign a contract - the phone at 500-600 bucks is still being subsidized somehow.
Yup, I' pretty sure the no-contract price is only for existing customers who already have a contract and don't want to extend.
I buy ATT phones all the time with no ATT plan. You just have to know how to work the system
Buy ATT phone w/o plan?
ARHYTHMATIK said:
I buy ATT phones all the time with no ATT plan. You just have to know how to work the system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
" 'splain, Lucy"
details please
cushcalc said:
" 'splain, Lucy"
details please
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can walk into any store and buy an att phone without a plan, you are just going to pay full price for the phone...
wouldnt u be able to get the original HTC Rom and install it on the tilt. then it'd be just like the kaiser excpet the no secondary camera
No the phone is locked to accept only ROMs signed by AT&T, at least until someone gets around it.
Yeah-- technically you can walk into any ATT store to buy a phone (and pay full price of course). But recently on certain models they have begun only selling them to people with ATT plans. If you tell the sales rep you are buying it for a gift, they are more likely to just ring you up without going through the hassle of making you get a plan.
However, I have experienced some reps that won't budge unless you give them an ATT cell number they can pull up. So I just give them my moms cell number or someone who I know is on ATT and tell them I am buying it for them as a gift. If you pay full price for the device, it doesn't screw up that person's possible upgrades or anything. A little sheisty- but it works.
If you pay full price, how locked is the phone then?
There is no degree of being locked down, due to price.
what about Tmobiles flavor of kaiser? and the 3g diff band stuff... that will screw things over... there is a lot of speculation on what will be done to it... obviously something diff will have to be from the spec kaiser for the future of tmo's 3G network.
Its the reason why im skipping out on kaiser... that and the fact that by the time there will be plans and discounts i would prob guess 2008 for tmo... i dont even know how they plan to release the phone without 3g network in place... that is very stupid, and if they brand it to only edge that would be even worse, which i doubt who knows?
I am talking about the USA ver not EU one for tmobile of course.
I just updated this with release info and a GPS lock for the Tilt.
Once the tilt is out I'll rewrite the comparison.
drutort said:
what about Tmobiles flavor of kaiser? and the 3g diff band stuff... that will screw things over... there is a lot of speculation on what will be done to it... obviously something diff will have to be from the spec kaiser for the future of tmo's 3G network.
Its the reason why im skipping out on kaiser... that and the fact that by the time there will be plans and discounts i would prob guess 2008 for tmo... i dont even know how they plan to release the phone without 3g network in place... that is very stupid, and if they brand it to only edge that would be even worse, which i doubt who knows?
I am talking about the USA ver not EU one for tmobile of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If T-Mobile is going to release the HTC Kaiser then the hardware must already be capable of supporting T-Mobile's networked 3G. I can't imagine them selling the highest end pda at Edge speeds.
I'm betting on a rom that supports T-Mobile's range.
evolution_theory said:
I just updated this with release info and a GPS lock for the Tilt.
Once the tilt is out I'll rewrite the comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we dont know for sure AT&T has locked gps for telenav. i mean a thread was just posted about 2 people who confirmed it was not locked. its all rumors, for now it should be left unknown.. if it is true, you should atleast include something about it will be able to be unlocked by someone here on xda developers.
Thought it might be time to bump this. I saw this early on and am still trying to figure out some details, mostly regarding software.
Some considerations...
1. What apps will be included with AT&T and what is their street price for legal copies (for instance BB Connect, mobiTV, etc)
2. Have all the HTC additions to the Kaiser been worked out. For instance, the Kaiser includes an HTC app called Audio Manager. One thing I like about this is that you can use the DPad to navigate your library (why this was left out in WM Player is beyond me). Is there a similar program to this on the AT&T.
3. Sure, I may be able to get rid of all the bloat ware by (eventually) flashing a ROM, but do I really want to spend the time figuring out all the nuances of all the cooked ROMS and which one will work best, not to mention the setup to get the ROM Flash onto the phone, etc. I don't know about the rest of yall, but at my hourly consultant rate, the cost of inconvenience adds up fast. Plus, I take the risk of bricking my brand new phone.
So, I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say on the matter. If one prefers the HTC Kaiser setup (Which BTW, includes the non-trivial coast of the Tom Tom software, not sure how much maps cost though), what would it really cost in dollars AND time to get the AT&T Tilt set up just like it?
Should I return the TILT???
I was depending on this being an mp3 player/video player/phone/fun/office device. ALL IN ONE being key!!
This device has dissapointed me on the multimedia end for obvious reasons as I can't even drag and drop SD DIVX Shows!!
Is there a device that can do all this that I should get instead since I'm in my 30 days???? What would you do?
Thanks for any advice....
redsrule2500 said:
Should I return the TILT???
I was depending on this being an mp3 player/video player/phone/fun/office device. ALL IN ONE being key!!
This device has dissapointed me on the multimedia end for obvious reasons as I can't even drag and drop SD DIVX Shows!!
Is there a device that can do all this that I should get instead since I'm in my 30 days???? What would you do?
Thanks for any advice....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also in the same boat. I was expecting more from it when it came to playing movies and just overall performance. Don't know if I should return it to newegg and void the att contract. Or if it would be better to keep the contract, sell the phone on ebay, and use that money to buy a different phone.
return them
I would return them, and buy Iphones.
Iphones have by far the best web browsing available short of having a pc, which is what I was hoping for out of my tilt. Now that i know my web browsing issues are because htc didnt provide drivers, i feel like im missing a huge part of what this phone should have been and it is very disappointing.
Take It Back
return it...
RETURN IT
why? well the more HTC get returned etc the quicker they will pull their finger out and correct things and not allow such stupid mistakes
Just make damn sure that when you return it; you tell them WHY.
Hmm... The new 8gb Nokia N95 has just come out... Looks rather nice too...
All of you whom own a Tilt / Tytn II, T-mobile or other clone distributed by carriers should return this piece of ****ty hardware when not satisfied with the video performance.
Indeed, AT&T certainly would not have counted on such a return (and loss ) and will raise this towards HTC as loss of business.
Just return the ****ty thing and buy something that does what it's supposed to do.
And, for your own good, never buy anything coming from HTC. They're crooks, hypocrites and arrogant bastards who think that their customers are of a low enough IQ to be mocked in their face and still want to feed HTC money (this is exactly what comes out from their official response to the driver issue).
ahson said:
I would return them, and buy Iphones.
Iphones have by far the best web browsing available short of having a pc, which is what I was hoping for out of my tilt. Now that i know my web browsing issues are because htc didnt provide drivers, i feel like im missing a huge part of what this phone should have been and it is very disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It no iphone for me....no way. It has the same problems in limited capabilities as you have to convert everything and use itunes….no thanks!
Also, anyone have suggestions besides iphone??????
Nokia's new model of the N95 looks sweet. 8gb RAM, black, not HTC... Worth checking out.
FloatingFatMan said:
Nokia's new model of the N95 looks sweet. 8gb RAM, black, not HTC... Worth checking out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no 3g, small screen, no keyboard, GPS? ... all features i wanted
redsrule2500 said:
no 3g, small screen, no keyboard, GPS? ... all features i wanted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now to be fair, you didn't way what features you wanted!
FloatingFatMan said:
Now to be fair, you didn't way what features you wanted!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything the tilt has...except it works!! I thought Tilt was my perfect device
redsrule2500 said:
Everything the tilt has...except it works!! I thought Tilt was my perfect device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. I bought my tilt last week so I still have two weeks to decide. I would return it today if i could figure out a replacement that does everything the Tilt does but better. I would personally rather have the Tilt than an Iphone even with the problems, and that nokia isn't doing it for me.
If you don't mind losing the internal GPS and the extra ram you could downgrade to the 8525 (Hermes). Nice thing is that there price has dropped considerably since the Tilt came out. For awhile there AT&T was selling them for $99...so you could probably find another site out there somewhere that would give it to you even better than this.
I'll trade someone my 8525 for their Kaiser
ha, I can't believe what im reading here! are u guys really that bitter. I honestly feel that even when (if) htc releases the fix, MOST of us will not notice a big difference in our daily use. I compare it to a bluetooth keyboard I purchased. before I bought it, I was going crazy, thinking I needed one, etc. once I got it, I don't think I've ever used it.
don't get me wrong, I would love the drivers, but other than that I love my phone. great internet, great gps, full keyboard, etc. there is honestly no other phone id rather have.
My Warranty ends tomorrow. I think im just going to keep the damn thing. Sure the video converting sucks. but, I got the Camera to work (thanks to Navadi), and I havnt watched a movie on my mobile in awhile. At least the reception is flawless. I have better reception than most of my friends and family. with the same provider, AT&T.
In my house NO ONE gets reception. and I can have a full conversation inside my house perfectly.
My brother who owns the Iphone. He has to walk outside in order to talk on his phone.
Oh and yeah the full keyboard is much better than the Iphone at Texting.
Oh and dont get me wrong I am disappointed with HTC with the way they are handling this situation. Atleast be helpful, rather than leaving us with a "F**k you, we got your money, you got what you paid for." what they did was false advertise.
The problem is, in the U.S. The phone is still better than majority of all the other phones out there. OBviously not in Europe. but here. Yeah.
I've had both the iPhone (Returned it) and now I have the TILT...i prefer the tilt.
I know the video situation sucks but I think the phone is still good overall