The definitive comparison between the Tilt and Kaiser - Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General

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VS
(ATT Tilt on left and HTC Kaiser on right)
The ATT Tilt is slated for an October 5th release as of October 2nd.
Note: I do not yet own either a HTC Kaiser or an ATT Tilt. I am creating this guide to help both others and myself make a clear comparison between these two devices as there are significant differences not only in price but in features and design. This guide is incomplete as we don’t yet have the full specifications for the Tilt officially. As more information is posted in this thread I will continue to update this guide for your viewing pleasure!
ATT Tilt vs Kaiser – Pros and Cons (Out of box comparisons)
ATT Tilt Pros: 2
Pricing!
The number one reason to purchase a Tilt over a Kaiser is ATT’s price. At a projected $349.99 with a 2 year contract through ATT you can pick up a Tilt at just under $450 cheaper than the HTC Kaiser. Without a 2 year contract through ATT you can purchase a Tilt for $549.99 and still save about $250 over the Kaiser.
Support
By purchasing a Tilt from an ATT corporate store or retailer you’ll have ATT’s full technical support and replacement options as they’re eligible for your phone. Insurance beyond the manufacturer’s warranty. Also you’ll have a service shop/vendor in your local town. I have on multiple occasions taken mine or colleague’s phones to ATT to have them instantly switched out with the same or other phones. I work for a corporation so the relationship might be better on my end than the average consumer but either way I didn’t have to drop the phone in the UPS pickup.
ATT Tilt Cons: 4
Design!
ATT has redesigned the aesthetic and hardware aspects of the Kaiser.. to a point. Some of these may be Pros to different users.
ATT removed a second low megapixel front camera from the Tilt. This will eliminate any possible “One way” video options despite ATT’s future plans to release “Video Calls”. ATT has recolored/surfaced both the keyboard and top frame of the Kaiser. Beyond these two changes we don’t yet have enough information on the Tilt’s hardware changes to list further concerns in design change.
Software!
The Tilt appears to NOT include the HTC homescreen plug-in. The HTC Home plug-in is an awesome upgrade to WM6 which many users on these forums have grown to love. ATT will also include much BLOATWARE, meaning extra programs designed to draw in more revenue for ATT’s own services.
GPS
The Tilt is locked to Telenav through ATT.
Network
The Tilt is NOT unlocked and must remain on ATT’s network. Also ATT may charge increased data usage fees based on your phone model.
HTC Kaiser Pros: 4
Design!
The Kaiser has a more modern and less-bulky and flat design over the HTC Hermes, it's predecessor. The Kaiser has by general opinion been improved quite a bit. There are no extraneous gaudy chrome keys on the face of the Kaiser and the keyboard is a professional low-profile black.
The Kaiser includes the front video camera and is guaranteed to retain ALL original specifications of the device without any nerfs by specific providers. With the Kaiser you know you're getting a device as it was intended to be designed.
Software
The Kaiser comes standard with HTC's Homescreen. The HTC Home plug-in is an excellent addition to WM6 both functionally and aesthetically.
In the Kaiser's operating system you will find only HTC's essential software. Your device's memory will not be bogged down additional "useless" software.
GPS
The Kaiser GPS is not locked to a specific software and comes with Tom Tom standard.
Network
The Kaiser is unlocked and can be used on ANY network providers’ service. You may also be able to avoid additional charges based on phone model when using specific service providers because your phone is unlocked and indefinable.
HTC Kaiser Cons: 2
Price!
The HTC Kaisers only con compared to the Tilt thus far is the price. At $750 to $800 dollars and $250-350 more than the Tilt the Kaiser is a costly device/toy. You are essentially paying to have everything unnerfed and unlocked. You have to ask yourself if the price is worth having the best in design and functionality? Through the XDA Store and with XDA's added membership discount you can pick up the HTC Kaiser for as low as $679.99 with free shipping and no contract with any carrier.
Support
The Kaiser is ordered online and often times from a European retailer. This means you will have no in-store support and usually only a warranty covering the first year of use. You are very limited in terms of technical support and hardware replacement when ordering a Kaiser online. You can't trade it in at the local retailer and you can't call HTC (As far as I'm aware) for technical assistance. There is no insurance option.
In Conclusion
Both the ATT Tilt and HTC Kaiser are excellent phones, in fact they may be the highest end Windows Mobile devices on the market below $1000 USD. For those consumers and businesses looking for the best bang for the buck I would definitely recommend the ATT Tilt. In a corporate environment a front camera, or even a camera at all, is not necessary and often not even allowed. The price of the Tilt makes it very appealing to the bottom line and the design and software cons are not much concern to most business professionals.
For those seeking the latest and greatest without the limitations of "The Man" then the HTC Kaiser is your mark, provided your budget is up to par.
If you do decide to settle on the ATT Tilt for the obvious price difference you will have the option down the line to flash an XDA Developed rom onto that ATT phone to negate many of the negative features of the ATT Rom. By flashing a new rom to your phone your only real drawback to the Tilt will be the lack of a front facing camera and the possibly gaudy coloring of the ATT design. It is also very likely that on these XDA forums an unlock tool wil become available for the Tilt to allow it's use on non-ATT Networks.

great work fella

Most of the 8925 cons are pretty easily bypassed with a little research and elbow grease:
*It should be pertty easy to get the HTC Home plugin back on. It's been pulled from a Kaiser and repackaged to allow it to work on any WM5/6 phone already. Hopefully since this IS a Kaiser, it will work exactly the same as it does on the unlocked model.
*Unless they physically removed the GPS antenna, even if they disabled the GPS it should be pretty easy for the enterprising folks in the scene to get it back up and working again. I'm personnaly pretty sure it will be enabled still, based on the news from the people working with the ROM images.
*Bloatware shouldn't be much of an issue. You can remove it from the start menu, and regedit the links out of programs. With the 256MB of ROM and SDHC support, there's plenty of space to go around for cheap.
*Locked phones ALWAYS get unocked eventually.
That just leaves the appearance (yeah, it's bad) and the lack of the second camera. Not much can be done there, but it's going to be half the price (or less, likely, on Premier) so if those aren't worth paying double....

Illrigger said:
Most of the 8925 cons are pretty easily bypassed with a little research and elbow grease:
*It should be pertty easy to get the HTC Home plugin back on. It's been pulled from a Kaiser and repackaged to allow it to work on any WM5/6 phone already. Hopefully since this IS a Kaiser, it will work exactly the same as it does on the unlocked model.
*Unless they physically removed the GPS antenna, even if they disabled the GPS it should be pretty easy for the enterprising folks in the scene to get it back up and working again. I'm personnaly pretty sure it will be enabled still, based on the news from the people working with the ROM images.
*Bloatware shouldn't be much of an issue. You can remove it from the start menu, and regedit the links out of programs. With the 256MB of ROM and SDHC support, there's plenty of space to go around for cheap.
*Locked phones ALWAYS get unocked eventually.
That just leaves the appearance (yeah, it's bad) and the lack of the second camera. Not much can be done there, but it's going to be half the price (or less, likely, on Premier) so if those aren't worth paying double....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree and even considered the same points when writing the guide. I ultimately decided to go with out-of-box. I'll amend the guide this weekend to reflect the options XDA members could have to better match the devices.

Quick question to those who know AT&T pricing. I have seen a non-contract price of between $500-$600. I already have a Kaiser from import running on T-Mobile and am thinking of getting another cheaper second. If I had no AT&T service, could I just buy the non-contract version and hope for an unlock tool to become available?

I'm not sure you can purchase any phone from AT&T without also purchasing service. Even if you dont sign a contract - the phone at 500-600 bucks is still being subsidized somehow.

Yup, I' pretty sure the no-contract price is only for existing customers who already have a contract and don't want to extend.

I buy ATT phones all the time with no ATT plan. You just have to know how to work the system

Buy ATT phone w/o plan?
ARHYTHMATIK said:
I buy ATT phones all the time with no ATT plan. You just have to know how to work the system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
" 'splain, Lucy"
details please

cushcalc said:
" 'splain, Lucy"
details please
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can walk into any store and buy an att phone without a plan, you are just going to pay full price for the phone...

wouldnt u be able to get the original HTC Rom and install it on the tilt. then it'd be just like the kaiser excpet the no secondary camera

No the phone is locked to accept only ROMs signed by AT&T, at least until someone gets around it.

Yeah-- technically you can walk into any ATT store to buy a phone (and pay full price of course). But recently on certain models they have begun only selling them to people with ATT plans. If you tell the sales rep you are buying it for a gift, they are more likely to just ring you up without going through the hassle of making you get a plan.
However, I have experienced some reps that won't budge unless you give them an ATT cell number they can pull up. So I just give them my moms cell number or someone who I know is on ATT and tell them I am buying it for them as a gift. If you pay full price for the device, it doesn't screw up that person's possible upgrades or anything. A little sheisty- but it works.

If you pay full price, how locked is the phone then?

There is no degree of being locked down, due to price.

what about Tmobiles flavor of kaiser? and the 3g diff band stuff... that will screw things over... there is a lot of speculation on what will be done to it... obviously something diff will have to be from the spec kaiser for the future of tmo's 3G network.
Its the reason why im skipping out on kaiser... that and the fact that by the time there will be plans and discounts i would prob guess 2008 for tmo... i dont even know how they plan to release the phone without 3g network in place... that is very stupid, and if they brand it to only edge that would be even worse, which i doubt who knows?
I am talking about the USA ver not EU one for tmobile of course.

I just updated this with release info and a GPS lock for the Tilt.
Once the tilt is out I'll rewrite the comparison.

drutort said:
what about Tmobiles flavor of kaiser? and the 3g diff band stuff... that will screw things over... there is a lot of speculation on what will be done to it... obviously something diff will have to be from the spec kaiser for the future of tmo's 3G network.
Its the reason why im skipping out on kaiser... that and the fact that by the time there will be plans and discounts i would prob guess 2008 for tmo... i dont even know how they plan to release the phone without 3g network in place... that is very stupid, and if they brand it to only edge that would be even worse, which i doubt who knows?
I am talking about the USA ver not EU one for tmobile of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If T-Mobile is going to release the HTC Kaiser then the hardware must already be capable of supporting T-Mobile's networked 3G. I can't imagine them selling the highest end pda at Edge speeds.
I'm betting on a rom that supports T-Mobile's range.

evolution_theory said:
I just updated this with release info and a GPS lock for the Tilt.
Once the tilt is out I'll rewrite the comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we dont know for sure AT&T has locked gps for telenav. i mean a thread was just posted about 2 people who confirmed it was not locked. its all rumors, for now it should be left unknown.. if it is true, you should atleast include something about it will be able to be unlocked by someone here on xda developers.

Thought it might be time to bump this. I saw this early on and am still trying to figure out some details, mostly regarding software.
Some considerations...
1. What apps will be included with AT&T and what is their street price for legal copies (for instance BB Connect, mobiTV, etc)
2. Have all the HTC additions to the Kaiser been worked out. For instance, the Kaiser includes an HTC app called Audio Manager. One thing I like about this is that you can use the DPad to navigate your library (why this was left out in WM Player is beyond me). Is there a similar program to this on the AT&T.
3. Sure, I may be able to get rid of all the bloat ware by (eventually) flashing a ROM, but do I really want to spend the time figuring out all the nuances of all the cooked ROMS and which one will work best, not to mention the setup to get the ROM Flash onto the phone, etc. I don't know about the rest of yall, but at my hourly consultant rate, the cost of inconvenience adds up fast. Plus, I take the risk of bricking my brand new phone.
So, I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say on the matter. If one prefers the HTC Kaiser setup (Which BTW, includes the non-trivial coast of the Tom Tom software, not sure how much maps cost though), what would it really cost in dollars AND time to get the AT&T Tilt set up just like it?

Related

Read something interesting lastnight

I read on this other forum http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/htc-p4450-kaiser/89014-htc-p4450-release-rumor-thread-4.html in this thread they say that it will be released in like November. They say that the person mention this did not say who his source was it still worried me cuz that is the month the 8525 was released. Additionally they mention the 8925 will not have the front facing camera nor will it have built in GPS!!!
I personally will probably boycott AT&T if this is true or at least petition this BS. I mean seriously I love my 8525 but I am getting sick and tired of at&t stripping features out of the damn devices. I am wondering if any of these claims have any value or are they just more incoherent gibberish from the internet.
Any thoughts?
I would entirely believe they could strip out those features. The front facing camera is useless in the usa as we have no infrastructure to use it. The GPS now, that's the sticky subject. Yes, they could release it and have one of the first devices ever in the usa to support built in standalone gps... But they have a service they sell at $10 or $15 a month to do the same thing. Releasing this phone would take away "revenue" as far as their bean counters will be concerned. It doesn't matter how many of those people would or would not pay for it, it's just a matter of potential revenue to them.
What will happen? That's still up in the air, but rest easy knowing it's still easy enough to get a import if need be!
No GPS?
I don't care if they leave out the front camera. But if AT&T is dumb enough to disable the GPS, I'm buying an unlocked Kaiser, period. I hate it when companies cripple perfectly good technology. It's not even like they would be getting revenue from GPS if they crippled it - they'd just be preventing us from using free GPS.....
Shadowmite said:
I would entirely believe they could strip out those features. The front facing camera is useless in the usa as we have no infrastructure to use it. The GPS now, that's the sticky subject. Yes, they could release it and have one of the first devices ever in the usa to support built in standalone gps... But they have a service they sell at $10 or $15 a month to do the same thing. Releasing this phone would take away "revenue" as far as their bean counters will be concerned. It doesn't matter how many of those people would or would not pay for it, it's just a matter of potential revenue to them.
What will happen? That's still up in the air, but rest easy knowing it's still easy enough to get a import if need be!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In regard to the lack of support for the front facing camera I thought they were planning on do the whole video share thing? I even found the option for video share on the wm6 beta I put on my girlfriends blackjack. In regard to the bean counters and potential loss of revenue? As far as I know the gps module does not determine who one will use for navigation. I currently have a gps chip through at&t however the same one is available elsewhere. Furthermore, telenav is offered to other carriers as well. The only way I can see this taking money away from them is it came with not only the chip but the software (maps) as well. If it does not come with maps I will still most likely stay with telenav through at&t.
What will happen? That's still up in the air, but rest easy knowing it's still easy enough to get a import if need be![/QUOTE]
Yeah, heres the other thing. I am aware I can get the kaiser and use my at&t sim but I doubt I could find the kaiser for $100 or so. I have a contact I send almost 30 customers a year to so I get the supreme hook up. My beef is with AT&T, I think they need to quit being so f_cking retarded and give their loyal customers the device they demand. Unaltered!!!
I am actually surprised they didnt take away the touch screen LOL, bunch of frickin idiots, hey we should all chip in and buy them a new brain. According to my calculations it should take about a dollar to upgrade from their existing
Ill throw in the first .02
AT&T has in the works a video call service.
The iPAQ has offered GPS for a long time.
There is no reason to remove GPS from the 8925 and I seriously doubt this would happen. I COULD see them removing the front camera though.
I think Ive decided to just buy an unlocked HTC instead of getting the Cingular 8925 because this phone will more than likely be nerfed.
evolution_theory said:
AT&T has in the works a video call service.
The iPAQ has offered GPS for a long time.
There is no reason to remove GPS from the 8925 and I seriously doubt this would happen. I COULD see them removing the front camera though.
I think Ive decided to just buy an unlocked HTC instead of getting the Cingular 8925 because this phone will more than likely be nerfed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note what AT&T is doing to the blackberrry 8800 series ... they have neutered the GPS so that it only works if you sign up for the $10/mo TeleNav services. I can confirm this is not a rumor, having seen some recent 8800 series 8800 series devices in the last week. There should be some way to hack around this if they do the same on the 8925, but I would predict a similar approach ... leave the radio in place, but disable without the consumer spending more $$.
ok.. let me throw in my 2 cents real quick.....
First off, GPS..
I have been told from a reliable source that it will be crippled through the ATT rom to be used with telenav only... like the 8800 crap.. but im sure that we here can figure something out on making it work otherwise, so im not worried about that...
Phone versions....
I have also heard from the same reliable source that there will be 3 different versions:
8900 - No camera's
8915 - Back 3MP no front camera
8925 - back 3MP camera, and front camera for VideoShare service...
Hope this clears the air for some people... my source is reliable, but things could change....
Hahahahaha
hahahaha...haha...ha....ahem.
Sorry, just looked at the Telenav site to understand what this service is. You get 'unlimited routes' for $10 a month or 10 routes for just $5.99 a month!
Charging per route for a GPS device. Amazing. Why don't they just charge us for each appointment we store in our Pocket PC calendar too?
"Hmmm, I really want to find my way to that new restaurant - but I wonder how many routes I've used this month?"
Ridiculous.
shogunmark said:
ok.. let me throw in my 2 cents real quick.....
First off, GPS..
I have been told from a reliable source that it will be crippled through the ATT rom to be used with telenav only... like the 8800 crap.. but im sure that we here can figure something out on making it work otherwise, so im not worried about that...
Phone versions....
I have also heard from the same reliable source that there will be 3 different versions:
8900 - No camera's
8915 - Back 3MP no front camera
8925 - back 3MP camera, and front camera for VideoShare service...
Hope this clears the air for some people... my source is reliable, but things could change....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info ... you always seem spot on with your sources... and that configuration would make some marketing sense
Any chance your source has any greater clarity on release dates? I figure I might as well plan on November, since that would be par for the course, but if you have anything more solid, let us know.
shogunmark said:
ok.. let me throw in my 2 cents real quick.....
First off, GPS..
I have been told from a reliable source that it will be crippled through the ATT rom to be used with telenav only... like the 8800 crap.. but im sure that we here can figure something out on making it work otherwise, so im not worried about that...
Phone versions....
I have also heard from the same reliable source that there will be 3 different versions:
8900 - No camera's
8915 - Back 3MP no front camera
8925 - back 3MP camera, and front camera for VideoShare service...
Hope this clears the air for some people... my source is reliable, but things could change....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can definately deal with this as I use telenav already and have found it to be reliable enough. I am wondering if your "reliable source has an idea on release date? Just curious. Thanks for your input.
weinson said:
Thanks for the info ... you always seem spot on with your sources... and that configuration would make some marketing sense
Any chance your source has any greater clarity on release dates? I figure I might as well plan on November, since that would be par for the course, but if you have anything more solid, let us know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
release date is one thing i cant get my hands on... it seems that they always like to change their minds... look at what happened with the 8525... i myself am planning on november, i will probably crack and buy a real kaiser before then..
swtaltima said:
I read on this other forum http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/htc-p4450-kaiser/89014-htc-p4450-release-rumor-thread-4.html in this thread they say that it will be released in like November. They say that the person mention this did not say who his source was it still worried me cuz that is the month the 8525 was released. Additionally they mention the 8925 will not have the front facing camera nor will it have built in GPS!!!
I personally will probably boycott AT&T if this is true or at least petition this BS. I mean seriously I love my 8525 but I am getting sick and tired of at&t stripping features out of the damn devices. I am wondering if any of these claims have any value or are they just more incoherent gibberish from the internet.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This all sounds like pure speculation.
swtaltima said:
What will happen? That's still up in the air, but rest easy knowing it's still easy enough to get a import if need be!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, heres the other thing. I am aware I can get the kaiser and use my at&t sim but I doubt I could find the kaiser for $100 or so. I have a contact I send almost 30 customers a year to so I get the supreme hook up. My beef is with AT&T, I think they need to quit being so f_cking retarded and give their loyal customers the device they demand. Unaltered!!!
I am actually surprised they didnt take away the touch screen LOL, bunch of frickin idiots, hey we should all chip in and buy them a new brain. According to my calculations it should take about a dollar to upgrade from their existing
Ill throw in the first .02[/QUOTE]
It could be worse - you could be a Verizon customer like I used to be.
AT&T has NOTHING on Verizon when it comes to phone crippling.
Disabling GPS would suck, it makes no sense other than greed.
Removing front camera may be a different story, as I recall hearing that the non-front-camera variant may have a slightly thinner form factor. Given that the phone is going to be targeted towards the business market where any camera can often be problematic, I can easily see AT&T choosing form factor over function in the case of a front-camera-or-not tradeoff if such a tradeoff situation exists.

AT&T or unlocked HTC retail unit?

OK,
Just trying to start a discussion here about the thought process I'm going through, wanted to see if anyone else was having the same dilemma.
Do I buy an unlocked Kaiser or wait for the Cingular 8925?
1) My wallet tells me to wait for the Cingular device - I'm due for an upgrade, I get a hardware discount through my company, and it is guaranteed to be cheaper.
but.....
2) I watched the unboxing video of the Tytn II retail unit, and it just looks like they threw in lots of goodies, nice case, TomTom software, etc. I doubt AT&T will throw in anything but the phone and a stylus.
and.....
3) we know that the unlocked version is fully featured and won't be crippled at all, whereas the AT&T version may disable GPS (except w/ their service) and/or the ROM may suck compared to the full HTC rom.
and finally.....
4) I can get an unlocked version NOW, versus waiting until god-knows-when (Oct/Nov?) to get an 8925.
The one other thing stopping me from going w/ an unlocked version is it seems to be mainly UK retailers (or US retailer selling a UK version). I want to wait until I can buy one in the U.S., with a U.S. power adapter. Has anyone seen this yet?
Thoughts?
its a tough call for myself im thinking just going HTC unlocked one and then when the 8925 comes out trying to add some of there rom stuff like cingular video app ect as its free with my data plan.
Another reason for the HTC one vrs the ATT one is ATT app locks them so you will have to wait a bit for someone to get a unlocking system working for it. With the 8525 it took 2-4 months if i remember correctly before there was a unlock avil for it.
Pricewise shrug if you can afford the htc one over waiting I would not even consider it then.
Well I CAN afford the HTC unit, doesn't mean I should waste money on it though
Realistically: AT&T unit is the best choice for price.
Preferably: Users on this forum would choose the htc if they can afford/justify it because it wont have nerfed hardware or software which the ATT version is likely to have.
Hoenstly, I would go with the HTC branded version before the AT&T. First, the HTC for sure will have GPS, the front facing camera, HSUPA, the case, and it's alrady unlocked. Worst case scenario, you have to buy a generic charger, or use your old one because it comes with the UK charger which we can't use. There is a lot more that your getting with the phone for the extra money. Especially if you have it to spend. AT&T always finds a way to spoil a situation becuause of their future plans an ideas. If you get the HTC branded Kaiser, at least there are no curve balls and you know that you're getting everything that the phone is capable of.
Triune said:
First, the HTC for sure will have GPS, the front facing camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is that? Is it possible that the AT&T model doesn't come with those features???
its more then likely ATT will not have the front camera as they do not support 2way video calling. also if the BB 8800 is any sign they will cripple the internal GPS if not take it out compleatly and force you to use there tower based telanav service.
Man, if I could afford, I would not even be asking this question. I would have a TyTN II on my hand right now.
Good points.
On the charger issue - won't HTC soon release a U.S. retail version of the Kaiser? Or are they prevented from doing so because of their relationship w/ AT&T?
there sales dep they use told me on the phone yesturday they will be selling them. she said they get them in on the 14th and there orders sould start going out on the 18th. Not sure if that ment u can order on the 14th or have to wait till the 18th tho.
Also note there sales dep does do contracts for ATT and all there americas carriers so they may or may not offier the unlocked one.
you can check there sales page from the HTC america site it send you to there sales front of letstalk.com
There has been people on here and other blogs claiming that AT&T may not offer some of these things. For instance, the 8525 didn't have the front camera, the case, and a few other things. AT&T is known for stripping down phones. Plus, even if AT&T doesn't offer the video conferencing now, when they do. you'll already have the capabilities to do it.
I expect the only crippling of GPS will be the lack of free Tom-Tom software. Of course telnav will be on there for them to make money but ATT would not disable GPS as other than that why buy a 8925 if you have a 8525. You can add your own GPS software, however the cost with that may bring you near just buying an unbranded Kaiser in the first place. I am waiting for the flame as to all the other great enhancements by upgrading, but I am talking about real useful stuff...when consumers spend $400 to change PDA it better be for something more than a little more RAM that they probably never maxed out the RAM on the 8525.
Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any point in going that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD
RacerX10 said:
Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any pointing that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree except I think GPS will be fully functional minus approx $100 TomTom software, so it still savings to wait for ATT version.
RacerX10 said:
Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any pointing that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you'll pay at least $20 per month more for the PDA data plan
magnamar said:
Another reason for the HTC one vrs the ATT one is ATT app locks them so you will have to wait a bit for someone to get a unlocking system working for it. With the 8525 it took 2-4 months if i remember correctly before there was a unlock avil for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly - the Cingular 8525 released November '06 and the pof free unlocker was out before release day. But recall that the TyTN had been out for almost a year by the time 8525 released - so free unlocker predated 8525 but not TyTN. imei-check had unlockers even earlier.
Richard
wpbear said:
when consumers spend $400 to change PDA it better be for something more than a little more RAM that they probably never maxed out the RAM on the 8525.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I'm *hoping* the 128MB RAM brings performance of the Kaiser back up to the level of my iPAQ5555 on Mapopolis. Moving from a "400MHz 128MB" iPAQ to a "400MHz 64MB" 8525/TyTN made Mapopolis MUCH less useful - loading Los Angeles alone kills the 8525, and is quick as a bunny on the iPAQ
I'd pay the upgrade in a heartbeat if I were sure I'd get Mapopolis back up to iPAQ performance! My struggle is $800 to *maybe* get back my performance vs wait and pay $450 to *maybe* get back my performance.
FWIW, I switched from a CF GPS on the iPAQ to a BT GPS because I found reception to be MUCH better having the GPS on the dash of the car vs attached to the iPAQ in my hand. So I like the integrated GPS option, but I don't know that it'll really save me from using my existing BT GPS. GPS has improved a fair bit since my Holux CF days, but I don't know if that'll be enough to overcome the antenna positioning issues.
Just my $0.02,
Richard
kept it simple..
my rationalization: post my thoughts in the forum and hope that someone tells me i made the right decision. (just kidding!)
for me the purchase amounts to a redistribution of discretionary spending. i lowered discretionary spending for a few weeks to finance the (irrational) "early adopter" cost of a hot new toy. at the first opportunity i purchased the toy without hesitation. i'll deal with buyer's remorse for 24hrs or until the new toy gets here. once i have the new toy in my hands, the need to rationalize will inexplicably disappear...
in other words, i was willing to pay the premium cost of getting what i wanted when i wanted it. i know i'll enjoy the new toy...lol
just my $0.02 (that i have left after buying the new toy )
rsolomon said:
Actually I'm *hoping* the 128MB RAM brings performance of the Kaiser back up to the level of my iPAQ5555 on Mapopolis. Moving from a "400MHz 128MB" iPAQ to a "400MHz 64MB" 8525/TyTN made Mapopolis MUCH less useful - loading Los Angeles alone kills the 8525, and is quick as a bunny on the iPAQ
I'd pay the upgrade in a heartbeat if I were sure I'd get Mapopolis back up to iPAQ performance! My struggle is $800 to *maybe* get back my performance vs wait and pay $450 to *maybe* get back my performance.
FWIW, I switched from a CF GPS on the iPAQ to a BT GPS because I found reception to be MUCH better having the GPS on the dash of the car vs attached to the iPAQ in my hand. So I like the integrated GPS option, but I don't know that it'll really save me from using my existing BT GPS. GPS has improved a fair bit since my Holux CF days, but I don't know if that'll be enough to overcome the antenna positioning issues.
Just my $0.02,
Richard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mapoplis should be replaced by tomtom anyway but thats my opinion.
as far as gps reception in the car...there is a cheap wired ext antenna already for the device
wpbear said:
mapoplis should be replaced by tomtom anyway but thats my opinion.
as far as gps reception in the car...there is a cheap wired ext antenna already for the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TomTom performance on the 8525 certainly beats Mapopolis on that machine, but the UI is years behind: No text-to-speech???? In the 21st century??? WTF! TomTom POI management is a joke compared to Mapopolis, try to add your own Restaurant in TomTom - it's gotta be in a custom category and thus won't show up in all the Restaurant searches.
Yes, I did the wired antenna thing for my CF GPS and it helps, but it's yet one more wire. The BT is wonderful, no wires, better signal.... Don't get me wrong, I'll be tickled if Kaiser GPS is usable!
Richard

Do you think the the bugs will be fixed for 8925?

I just wanted to know that should i wait for 8925 or get a TyTN II now?
do you think that the current bugs that people mention that TyTN II has, will be fixed for 8925 or not!?
lungothrin said:
I just wanted to know that should i wait for 8925 or get a TyTN II now?
do you think that the current bugs that people mention that TyTN II has, will be fixed for 8925 or not!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My view - If you wait for an 8925 it will not change any of the "bugs" (IMHO small ones - but it depends what is important to you). Also if you get a branded version it may suffer the usual "bloat" that comes with that.
A better reason to wait might be price, but then that could take quite a while to drop substantially.
Mike
lungothrin said:
I just wanted to know that should i wait for 8925 or get a TyTN II now?
do you think that the current bugs that people mention that TyTN II has, will be fixed for 8925 or not!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We will have to look into our crystal ball to know for sure.
Crystal Ball?? We're talking AT&T here. It's a magic 8 Ball. You don't think there's any logic behind those answers they give do you?!
-Mc
I'm still doing my research on this too, so this probably already has an answer. But when updates come out (if there's not already one, or a dump/cook?), 8925 users could go unbranded pretty easily. I'm just wondering if the 8925 will use the same general scheme for simlocks as 8525, and if so, if the 8525 unlocker could work, or be easily adapted. I'm intending on using the 8925 with tmousa, even though in my area it's only got gprs . Figure for $550, I could cancel my att and save a lot just keeping tmousa, and hopefully it'll have edge buildout or something by next year. On a side note, I wonder why they got rid of irda. I was hoping to be able to use my phone as a remote control (if they even can.. i remember my old nokia s60)
ziddey said:
I'm still doing my research on this too, so this probably already has an answer. But when updates come out (if there's not already one, or a dump/cook?), 8925 users could go unbranded pretty easily. I'm just wondering if the 8925 will use the same general scheme for simlocks as 8525, and if so, if the 8525 unlocker could work, or be easily adapted. I'm intending on using the 8925 with tmousa, even though in my area it's only got gprs . Figure for $550, I could cancel my att and save a lot just keeping tmousa, and hopefully it'll have edge buildout or something by next year. On a side note, I wonder why they got rid of irda. I was hoping to be able to use my phone as a remote control (if they even can.. i remember my old nokia s60)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
T-Mobile is coming out with the Kaiser also but when we have no idea.. Also T-mobile is going to be using the 1700Mhz for there 3G so pretty soon we will all have the Kaiser with every carrior!
Cool. The thing is that I'm kind of stuck at the moment and not sure what to do. I've been selling phones during the summer months and going to school during the rest. For the first summer, I sold a lot of phones and was in good terms with the tmo indirect guy. He told me he'd let me keep my dealer line even though I went on hiatus until the next summer. However, when next summer rolled around, I heard that the guy got promoted somewhere else in tmo. I never met the new guy who was supposed to visit our kiosk. Same went for the third summer. Now, I'm back at school again. Still on the smartaccess since I was only 18 with no history when I first got the dealer line.
I'm not sure exactly what my internet includes, since it seems to be on and off what I'm allowed to do. But in any case, out here in ithaca, ny, they seem to have pulled away from the market. I was originally debating a parttime here during the year, but they're gone now. Currently, on my 6682 that I'm using with tmo, I'm only seeing gprs.
I'm a little afraid of calling into tmo since it's a dealer line, and the site I worked at has changed dealer codes since my line was activated, so I'm afraid it'll run into trouble. Anyone have any insight?

Question regarding everyones happiness with the CDMA Hero.

Hi all, Im finally giving up on my old HTC Tilt and want to move to actual android device. Through my work i get amazing discounts from sprint and thats leading me to either get the Moment or Hero, I must admit im scared of ditching the hardware keyboard. I also get ok discounts with verizon and would be able to get the droid for just over $100, versus $30 for the moment or hero. Do you think the droid would be worth the extra 70? Im scared to not have XDA-dev anymore and dont know when rooting would be possible with the droid. any advice would be great. thanks all and sorry if the questions are dumb
The question is how much is the Verizon data plan? NOthing can beat the sprint plan I have( Family Plan).
Droid is the darling now and give it a month, it will be rooted. What would be nice is having the actual correct way to achieve root. There is no way the developer won't let themselves have root.
based on total cost of ownership, sprint is the way to go. the droid is faster, and has android 2.0 but the hero is going to be getting it soon and the moment is getting some type of upgrade as well. in my eyes the droid is comparable to the moment but with a bigger screen, but the moment has a much more crisp display. it is beautiful. my dad has it. i have a hero. ma b im biased but i say hero. lol!
I guess it is difficult to really say since I have and adore the Hero. Frankly, the new droid is too boxy and I like the software keyboard.
i prefer the hero because it has HTC and i love there designs on the software i have the touch vogue now the hero best choice i made
I went from a hardware keyboard on the Q, Mogul, and TP to the Hero. It took me about 30 minutes to get used to the SIP-only input, but I love it.
I guess it helped that I was using a modified SIP on my Mogul and TP, but software keyboard on the Hero is really not bad - I have the spell check and suggestion settings turned on, so even if my chubby fingers hit the wrong part of the screen, 9 times out of 10, it gets fixed before I'm ready for the next word.
My only complaint about the auto-suggest / correct on the Android over WinMo is that WinMo would suggest phrases that you've used in the past, and give preference to common words. Android makes no such distinctions (that I've seen).
If you get good discounts with Sprint, then I'd suggest going that way. Sprint's EVDO is excellent and seems to be getting better all the time. I get 25% off my bills, which makes the already cheaper data plan basically free (not really, but compared to $35 - $50 from other carriers).
with sprint i would get 23% off a month, no activation fee and the hero or moment for 29.99. Its really hard to pass that up for so dang cheap, and my monthly bill would be roughly $24 dollars cheaper then verizon. So the droid would be really costing be $600 more then the hero/moment.
k2rolla503 said:
with sprint i would get 23% off a month, no activation fee and the hero or moment for 29.99. Its really hard to pass that up for so dang cheap, and my monthly bill would be roughly $24 dollars cheaper then verizon. So the droid would be really costing be $600 more then the hero/moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went from a Samsung Instinct to HTC Hero - night and day difference. My wife is still using her Instinct, says she'll replace it when it breaks. There is so much more you can do with the HTC Hero than a standard phone, plus the widgets just make it awesome. I love the HTC Sense and 7 home screens. Coworkers with their "icon only" iPhones were amazed at how smooth all my screen transitions were. Plus, I've got it fully integrated (like everyone else) with Google contacts/calendar/etc., and Google Voice is awesome.
With the Android OS I don't really think you can go wrong with a phone, there will always be updates so long as the community is around. And by the time the community is dead, you'll probably be able to run a web server off your phone instead of just junking it
My path led me from normal flip phones to the iPhone (my first smartphone), iPhone 3G, Palm Pre (about the time the iPhone 3GS came out and I got sick of paying so much money for a device that didn't let me listen to pandora while doing other things), HTC Hero...and I love the Hero with it's customizability and the bit of multitasking. I love the software keyboard (I got spoiled on the iphone software keyboard and much prefer it to a hardware one) and multitouch support and I am loving the Sprint plan (saved me $20/month from AT&T which is like giving myself a $240/year raise!). And ever since I got into the smartphone market I want and love tethering...I jailbroke all my iphones to get it, I rooted the pre to get it and now I've flashed my hero to MoDaCo to get it. So far, the openness really speaks to the urge to tweak and experiment I have so Android will likely be where I stay for a while.
I'm happy with the phone but not completely satisfied. It has some issues which need to be resolved, particularly the ROM memory leak which occurs using Bluetooth. I can't use bluetooth at ll for now. The calendar issue and the mono headphone issue also needs resolving. I have not had an issue with dust under the screen (knock on wood) but that would definitely be a huge problem if it occurs.
Even with these issues this phone is the best phone I have ever owned. There are phones that are arguably better (iphone 3gs, droid) but imho this phone is the best value for the money by a long shot. I pay about $52 a month after my 25% discount. My plan is better than if I were with Verizon or ATT and paying $$100 or $70. Sprint coverage in my area is superb as well, ATT sucks. I also get to upgrade phones after 1 year at new costumer rates because of premier status so I get to enjoy this phone for now and a year from now I can get a Hero 2, Dragon, Iphone? on Sprint.
Sprint still has it's shortcomings though. I have always dealt with very courteous csr's but internal communication is really an issue with them. They all seem to know something different and particularly getting a targeted update date is impossible. Verizon on the other hand is amazing at this, within one week of the Droid and Eris launch they had many of the issues documented and disseminated the info to it's employees. There was even a "leak" so users have some idea update dates.

T-Mobile is awesome

I know that this is a samsung galaxy s6 forum, but I want to tell you about my experience with T Mobile's technical support department and jump warranty. So I called in on Sunday letting them know that I had the purple spot issue with my front facing camera and ask for replacement they start the process for us to do the replacement and I was told that it was going to take about 6 to 10 business days for me to receive a replacement phone because they didn't have the white Samsung Galaxy S6 32 gb model in stock, well to my surprise my phone was shipped on Monday and I received it yesterday and today.
I went to pick it up to find out the gentleman who I asked to replace my phone or did the warranty replacement actually upgraded my phone to a 64 gigabyte model for free since I had to wait so long for a replacement.
Now I didn't know he upgraded my phone to a larger model until I actually received my new phone and called back and he left notes stating why he did it, this is probably the best customer service that I have received, the guy that I talked to you was amazing and now I have a upgraded version that I had didn't have to pay for and actually had a pretty good conversation with the gentleman as well again I'm sorry if this is not supposed to be in this thread or forum but I just wanted to say how excited and happy I was with the experience that I had with T Mobile's customer service.
bsanto9 said:
I know that this is a samsung galaxy s6 forum, but I want to tell you about my experience with T Mobile's technical support department and jump warranty. So I called in on Sunday letting them know that I had the purple spot issue with my front facing camera and ask for replacement they start the process for us to do the replacement and I was told that it was going to take about 6 to 10 business days for me to receive a replacement phone because they didn't have the white Samsung Galaxy S6 32 gb model in stock, well to my surprise my phone was shipped on Monday and I received it yesterday and today.
I went to pick it up to find out the gentleman who I asked to replace my phone or did the warranty replacement actually upgraded my phone to a 64 gigabyte model for free since I had to wait so long for a replacement.
Now I didn't know he upgraded my phone to a larger model until I actually received my new phone and called back and he left notes stating why he did it, this is probably the best customer service that I have received, the guy that I talked to you was amazing and now I have a upgraded version that I had didn't have to pay for and actually had a pretty good conversation with the gentleman as well again I'm sorry if this is not supposed to be in this thread or forum but I just wanted to say how excited and happy I was with the experience that I had with T Mobile's customer service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's really hit or miss. I find that online chat support is pretty horrible, they follow a script and can't think outside the box. Phone support is light years better, they have always helped out. I don't buy warranties so if you every need help and are outside the return period they don't really give a crap. It's easy to get help when you pay $10 per month, otherwise they don't really care all that much. You get what you pay for.
ipaq_101 said:
It's really hit or miss. I find that online chat support is pretty horrible, they follow a script and can't think outside the box. Phone support is light years better, they have always helped out. I don't buy warranties so if you every need help and are outside the return period they don't really give a crap. It's easy to get help when you pay $10 per month, otherwise they don't really care all that much. You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For what it's worth, my brother used to work at a tech support call center (not for T-Mobile), and they DO have scripts, and they're not ALLOWED to "think outside the box." He frequently got frustrated, because he knew that he could troubleshoot his callers' issues and actually help them (since he had a pretty solid base of knowledge about software and computers in general), but he wasn't allowed to go beyond the script.
That doesn't make it any less frustrating when dealing with that kind of tech "support", but knowing that has at least made me better at realizing that the person on the phone isn't the problem, and that I just need to keep insisting to speak to a supervisor to eventually get to someone who actually has authority to DO something besides read cookie-cutter questions and answers from a script.
I had an issue with each S6 I received.. each warranty replacement.
So Tmobile allowed my account to have a jump upgrade without having to pay off half the phone. so now i can upgrade to another device whenever I want waiting on the G4 or possibly sony z4 or nexus
tlxxxsracer said:
I had an issue with each S6 I received.. each warranty replacement.
So Tmobile allowed my account to have a jump upgrade without having to pay off half the phone. so now i can upgrade to another device whenever I want waiting on the G4 or possibly sony z4 or nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're leaving the S6 the z4 is the only option in my opinion. Sure it's going to have a throttled sd810 in it but it's still a good processor. The g4 and nexus are overhyped with little to offer. I have to say after I got use to the rear buttons on the g3 I loved them, much better than on the sides.
ThePagel said:
If you're leaving the S6 the z4 is the only option in my opinion. Sure it's going to have a throttled sd810 in it but it's still a good processor. The g4 and nexus are overhyped with little to offer. I have to say after I got use to the rear buttons on the g3 I loved them, much better than on the sides.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I came from a G2 to the s6. I loved the rear buttons and the tap to wake/sleep feature.
The nexus im unsure of cause of camera quality.
I like the sony line cause their design/size and specs. Still hesitant on the g4 cause I'm now spoiled on the build quality of the s6 and the SD808 plus its a larger phone
tlxxxsracer said:
I had an issue with each S6 I received.. each warranty replacement.
So Tmobile allowed my account to have a jump upgrade without having to pay off half the phone. so now i can upgrade to another device whenever I want waiting on the G4 or possibly sony z4 or nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just wondering what you were talking about when you said pay off half the phone? I've jumped three times and came no where near paying off half the phone. I jumped each time on the 6 month mark exactly. Are you saying I can jump anytime I want as long as half is paid off?
v2.2v said:
Just wondering what you were talking about when you said pay off half the phone? I've jumped three times and came no where near paying off half the phone. I jumped each time on the 6 month mark exactly. Are you saying I can jump anytime I want as long as half is paid off?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's jump 1.0 and jump 2.0.
Jump 2.0 you have to pay off half the phone (usually a year) to upgrade.
Jump 1.0 you can upgrade every 6months
tlxxxsracer said:
There's jump 1.0 and jump 2.0.
Jump 2.0 you have to pay off half the phone (usually a year) to upgrade.
Jump 1.0 you can upgrade every 6months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way it works with jump 1.0 is you can upgrade twice per year, starting on the date you originally added jump. So if you added jump in July, you can jump twice any time between July and June, every year. The 6 month wait period only pertained to the first jump upgrade on the account. But obviously if you jump twice in the first half of your cycle, you'll need to wait until your cycle restarts.
tlxxxsracer said:
There's jump 1.0 and jump 2.0.
Jump 2.0 you have to pay off half the phone (usually a year) to upgrade.
Jump 1.0 you can upgrade every 6months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice lol so i lucked out getting on JUMP early lol Note 2, LG G2, HTC One M8, Note 4, S6
Does anybody know if being on Jump 1.0 or Jump 2.0 is dependent on the date you made the original phone purchase ( when you first signed for JUMP).?
How can you tell what version you have. I'm pretty sure I have 2.0. I had to sign up for jump to keep my m8 and get the s6 when it was released. I was under the impression that I have to pay off at least half of the s6 to trade it in for another.
And, yes, I agree Tmobile is awesome.
Edit
I know wich one I have. [emoji1]
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^^^i don't get that option. I get the following message " Your JUMP upgrades have been maximized till 11/18/15".
So I must be on JUMP 1.0
You are on 1.0 if yours does not show up like his, mybwas also 2.0 but when I first got T-Mobile my credit was bad so they made me put half down on the phone, so every time I jump I'm already elegible to jump again beacause they won't rerun my credit. But im not complaining because i just got the s6 and I'm already eligible to jump to what ever I want
bsanto9 said:
You are on 1.0 if yours does not show up like his, mybwas also 2.0 but when I first got T-Mobile my credit was bad so it alreadybmad eme put half down on the phone, so every time I jump I'm already elegible to jump again beacause they won't rerun my credit. Butnim not complaining because i just got the s6 and I'm already eligible to jump yo what ever I want haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but if you (you as in you your self not the generalized term) jump before the phone is paid off your just giving tmobile money and a phone they didn't earn. Jumping for the rest of us still doesn't add up completely, but it is a nice option if you want to escape your phone at the one year mark. Really the closest jumping comes to making financial sense is if you are half paid off (no more no less) at the one year mark and jump immediately.
I don't mind "leasing" my phone if all I pay down is the tax on it. Financial sense went out of the window for me after T-Mobile introduced all these enticing upgrades a couple of years back
laureanop said:
I don't mind "leasing" my phone if all I pay down is the tax on it. Financial sense went out of the window for me after T-Mobile introduced all these enticing upgrades a couple of years back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, I was more than happy to trade my g3 for this phone. I even gave them $50 to get the eip to half so I could jump immediately. What I did didn't financial sense but it was only 50 and I was sick of that phone. I think I'll pay this phone off as long as its battery holds up and Samsung doesn't release a graphene phone in the next two years.
I don't know, I keep trying to like them but they keep doing things to make me mad. Today they told me I can't report bad service because my phones are rooted. It's a Nexus 6 and my SGS6. Both are on stock software just rooted. It's rediculous that they can't even check the tower remotely to verify it is working. Basically one tower refuses to allow the phones to jump up from edge speed. Once you drop down you have to go to airplane mode to get back up.
_Dennis_ said:
I don't know, I keep trying to like them but they keep doing things to make me mad. Today they told me I can't report bad service because my phones are rooted. It's a Nexus 6 and my SGS6. Both are on stock software just rooted. It's rediculous that they can't even check the tower remotely to verify it is working. Basically one tower refuses to allow the phones to jump up from edge speed. Once you drop down you have to go to airplane mode to get back up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that is a "problem" just a odd quark with the hand off. It has happened to me on verizon, att, sprint and t-mobile.
ThePagel said:
I don't think that is a "problem" just a odd quark with the hand off. It has happened to me on verizon, att, sprint and t-mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be. It's worked before, and while driving bouncing from 2G to 3G allows me to still listen to Spotify. If it's stuck on 2G Spotify does not work. It's disappointing because it's about a 10 minute section of the road.

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