Database Develop

Nokia N73 or Sony Ericsson K810i?

Hey everyone, i'm upgrading now and am torn between getting the N73 or the K810 (which is coming out next month).
http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=gb&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pip1&zone=pp&pid=10804
http://www.nokia.co.uk/link?cid=PLAIN_TEXT_119601
I am downgrading to a non-Windows phone because the Wizard I have isn't very practical and isn't a hero in all situations...of course I intend to continue developing it as there really is nothing like Windows CE.
The N73 has better video but it's very common. It's a Nokia, and I think they're quite boring to use. The camera is brilliant, but I hear the shutter speed is slow compared to Ericssons.
The K810 looks awesome but has stone age video (176x144). I like Ericssons, they're fun, and very usable.
Please anyone with any knowledge atall leave any comments or thoughts.

I just got myself a K800i from eBay to go with my array of Windows Mobile phones. One of the first thing I did was flash the K810i firmware to it (although that did nothing to help with the big lump on the back of the phone, which the K810i will not suffer from!)
I was just after a cheap phone with the best camera available, purely to use on a stag-do I'm going on soon. As my limit was £100 (in case I lose/break the thing) my choice was between the Sony and the Nokia too.
I went for the Sony, largely because it has a *proper* flash which will come in handy in low-lit bars and clubs, but I also have an irrational dislike of Nokia's, and I've owned Symbian S60 devices in the past which, looking back, I wasn't thrilled with (Although I loved my old Siemens SX1 at the time).
A good friend of mine has an N73, and in the interest of balance, I will say (grudgingly) that having had a play around with it, it's one of the nicest Nokia's I've seen for a long time. Very good quality pictures, and the latest S60 is better than it ever has been. Only the N95 is better, but that costs a fortune at the moment!
Having used my K800i for just over a week (to get used to it before my drunken trip) I'm seriously considering keeping it as my main phone, at least for the forseeable future. The camera is truly brilliant, even in the absolute pitch black, it has an RSS reader which I use heavily, a capable media player and FM radio, a QVGA web-browser which is at least as good as Mobile IE on a Windows Smartphone, and a massive range of QVGA Java games available. The main thing though, is how insanely usable I'm finding it. Even the N73 doesn't beat the K800i for ease of use.
I have never used video recording on a mobile for anything except MMS, so although Qcif is a bit off-putting at first, it really makes no difference to me. If you're going to be using it for viewing on your PC, then I would say that the general video quality on the K800i comes out about as well as my Universal or my Hermes, despite the lower resolution, mainly because the framerate is more consistent, and the colours/image is sharper to begin with. The N73 is obviously superior for video though.
The main limitation of the K800i for me, is the rather basic e-mail. On my main e-mail account, "push" IMAP4 actually delivers my e-mails to my K800i before "push" Exchange does to my WM5 device (which I'm baffled by). However, you can't view .doc .xls .ppt .pdf attachments on the Sony. You can download and forward them on, but you can't open them.
Also, my music collection is in .ogg format, which the Sony can't handle. It's a shame, because I'm now having to rip things to mp3 for the plane trip.
So basically, if you need flexibility then the N73 is the one to go for. It has better video, and a better e-mail client, plus you can add on extra software features as you go along 'cause it's a Symbian phone.
Have a play around with a K800i - the K810i really is virtually identical, so you'll get a very good idea for yourself of what it will and wont be able to do, but I'd say if you want a more stylish, and extremely usable phone for daily use - with a slightly better camera - then you should go for the Sony.

hi, dont talk about SE or nokias even in off topic, they r low class,
thanks

hey, thanks sub69, that post was very helpful! i decided upon the K810 and i haven't looked back. i had a play with an N73 and i found it very slow and quite clumsy.
thanks again

Saaduk said:
hi, dont talk about SE or nokias even in off topic, they r low class,
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not low class atall. I'm talking about Nokia and Sony Ericsson's flagship mobiles, not a Motorola V3 or Nokia 3310.

nice rb26dett

HTC kaiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saaduk said:
nice rb26dett
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the Skyline engine?

2jz_ooshyt

This phone is not a graphics device, its a business tool.

OK, rather than hijack a thread, this is what I posted last night in the class action thread:
Steve-C said:
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These were the responses:
forcedalias said:
So, are you saying that just because it's business-oriented, its camera should continue to suffer from video driver issues? That it should be slower to process anything with some graphics in it, business-related, entertainment or otherwise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omikr0n said:
GPS, email, office - fine.
Web browsing - not at all - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qbaDLzOU_Y
Syncing - fine, except mine disconnects randomly when connected via bluetooth
Movies - I haven't seen a single movie playing fluently on TyTN II
Is this really acceptable for you? Especially for such expensive device? I paid nearly $1000 for device that my 5 (!) year old iPaq h2210 can easily outperform at ANYTHING?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never understood the driver issues, as I haven't witnessed them. Looking at the YouTube video posted, that is very worrying, but I would like to know how were such poor results achieved?
This is my Kaiser (running the stock o2 ROM). Firstly it shows a video being played on my laptop, second the same section of the same video on my Kaiser. Then a web page in PIE, followed by a bit of surfing on Opera. From my video, it seems to perform just fine. So am I just really lucky, or am I missing something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrHwG6xpc-E

Nope I get the same results.

Well, i dont have big issues with movies.
However, i notice a lot of "lag" effects sometimes when scrolling. Of course installed the scrolling fix for IE, which makes it far better, but still, there is interface lag.
This lag is easily noticeable when you try to close an app and need to point your stylus like 3 or 4 times on the top right X before anything appears.
Also noticeable when you scroll in the "programs" window , interface lag, the scrolling is bad, really... The icons in the programs windows look like they disappear (this part of the screen becomes totally blank/white) then half-reappear then disappear etc... It is UGLY. When scrolling in program window, what should be SEEN would be real scrolling icons, fluid and all ! It should be nice, fluid, and shouldnt look like the screen refresh is 1 frame / second.
With such a processor and the included ATI thingy i would have thought of a faster interface avoiding such lag tbh.

The Stargate video that you're showing on your tilt in your video, did you conver that first?
If not, I'd like to know the stats on the video. Whats the resolution, file size, etc.
I've copied music videos to my phone and they play like crap. I had to spend $30 on conversion software and wait for the media to be converted down before I was able to watch anything.
Stargate Atlantis episodes that are 350mb take a long time to convert. To me it's a waste of time. I'd rather have a fully functional device with proper video support. Software rendering makes the screen draw slow and makes the device lag.
So, have you copied any video files at all to your phone and had them not play correctly? Or are you saying that every video you've tried has worked fine?
That has NOT been my experience. I have to convert everything to 320x240 at 640 bitrate before my phone will play video smoothly.

There is no need to argue, the phone is capable of doing more, why not just face the fact.. If it can do more, what's the use on arguing "its already good enough??" No its not, the camera is the worse thing ive ever seen.
Dont get me wrong, the phone is great. I love it. The reception is the best ive ever seen.. But we just want them to correct the video driver issue, that is all. Its not harming you... is it? No need to drunk rant ..
Oh and by the way, technology is supposed to improve, the phone is an upgrade. Did it upgrade? No. I see no improvements..
Oh wait!, we got GPS .. I'll give you that.. Even then the GPS takes like 20 minutes to find a satallite. but it is great once its up and running.

I WOULD like to be able to turn on the eye candy and not destroy the usability of my device... even for business purposes

As the video seems to be really low res (QVGA at most) it should work, (we don't know about the bitrate but I'm assuming it's fairly low too).
Most of us who are complaining want a seamless experience. Ie we want to watch the regular videos we want on our computers on our mobile device.
IE scrolling seems nice enough, that seems to differ a bit between ROMs.
I can just share my experience from strart to "finish":
I read up on what device to get. Kaiser was very much hyped at the time. I took the time to read their webpage where they claim that the phone is "more powerful than any other mobile communicator". The same text says that the device is equally good for business and pleasure. It also reccomends using it for gaming:
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before"
"perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games."
"Always ready for business - and pleasure"
I also took the time to check out the MSM7200 processor and what that was all about.
Now my primary focus is business. I wanted Office Mobile and a nice contact manager etc. I have no gripes there.
The problem started showing up when I came to the gaming/pleaasure part.
I tried dragging and dropping some TV shows (700kbps 512x384 res) and the playback is prety lousy.
So I went out and bought CorePlayer for 25 bucks. First result was even worse. So then I figured out that I actually had to turn off the standard Windows Mobile rendering interface called DirectDraw. Seemed strange enough as this is THE standard interface for drawing video on a windows mobile device. With a lot of tweaking I got semi acceptable playback in the end.
A day later I started playing around with the camera. It took me about five seconds to realize that it was utterly flawed. Shutter speed (or rather the processing speed) makes the delay from the point where you click the button to where the picture is taken was so slow that none of my pictures came out right.
It's also exceedingly difficult to use the viewfinder seeing as it runs at less than 5 fps and with extreme blur.
Capturing video was also a downer. Instead of the 30 fps @ VGA resolution that the chipset touts I'm getting 10-15 fps and I might add that to me it looks like it's even less than that. Utterly unwatchable.
So ok, video playback and the camera was pretty awful. But as I said I mainly intended to use this for business so I didn't think much more of it.
So I tried surfing a bit on the web. I run a website and I wanted to check my bak account.
What I noticed was that as soon as I visited a "non-Mobile" website everything slowed down. Scrolling takes forever, and also simply rendering the page takes "too" long.
The mobile pages of my service provider works like a charm, but that's a no brainer seeing as they are meant to work on everything from the cheapest 50 dollar phones and up.
Then came the weekend. I was off to some friends that live out in the country. I had to go there by train.
So "hey, great time to load it up with some games".
Some of the games I've heard of was legend of steel and call of duty 2.
Well call of duty 2 was just as mess, with no open gl support.
legend works pretty well unless you actually try to play the game. As soon as the stylus hits that screen everything start going in slow motion.
I resorted to playing bubble breaker and tetris for the trip.
By this time I was pretty annoyed since my 3 year old Sony Ericsson el cheapo 3G-phone gave me a much better gaming experience than this.
So then I resorted to emulators. I really wanted to try out some nice emulating but again, performance was too low.
I didn't expect the TyTN II to be a Playstation Portable challenger but I didn't expect it to be just a typing machine with a calendar attached to it either.
I found this forum and surely enough I found out about the lack of drivers and everything suddenly made sense.
And the thing that bugs me the most about this is that the drivers are readily available to HTC, they just choose not to provide them to us.
So personally I'm a bit pissed off and I surely won't consider HTC a first hand alternative the next time I go shopping for a new PDA phone.
/Scincerele signed "Business users who expected more"
there you go (actually a true story even though a made it cheesy on purpose. )
oh yeah, PS I'm also pretty irritated by the lag that you get when you put the phone in landscape mode or vice versa. And the slight lag that happens when you start programs (you can actually see how the device renders in approx 10-20 lines at a time) it's not a deal breaker but I certainly expected more, especially since I've used similar phones using both pal, symbian and windows mobile and other OSes (even really cheap ones) that don't exhibit the same symptoms.
Still it's only a minor gripe...

The page you shown doesn't prove anything, it is contains for too less content. Try open forum.xda-developers.com you'll see the huge lag...

undac said:
As the video seems to be really low res (QVGA at most) it should work, (we don't know about the bitrate but I'm assuming it's fairly low too).
Most of us who are complaining want a seamless experience. Ie we want to watch the regular videos we want on our computers on our mobile device.
IE scrolling seems nice enough, that seems to differ a bit between ROMs.
I can just share my experience from strart to "finish":
I read up on what device to get. Kaiser was very much hyped at the time. I took the time to read their webpage where they claim that the phone is "more powerful than any other mobile communicator". The same text says that the device is equally good for business and pleasure. It also reccomends using it for gaming:
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before"
"perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games."
"Always ready for business - and pleasure"
I also took the time to check out the MSM7200 processor and what that was all about.
Now my primary focus is business. I wanted Office Mobile and a nice contact manager etc. I have no gripes there.
The problem started showing up when I came to the gaming/pleaasure part.
I tried dragging and dropping some TV shows (700kbps 512x384 res) and the playback is prety lousy.
So I went out and bought CorePlayer for 25 bucks. First result was even worse. So then I figured out that I actually had to turn off the standard Windows Mobile rendering interface called DirectDraw. Seemed strange enough as this is THE standard interface for drawing video on a windows mobile device. With a lot of tweaking I got semi acceptable playback in the end.
A day later I started playing around with the camera. It took me about five seconds to realize that it was utterly flawed. Shutter speed (or rather the processing speed) makes the delay from the point where you click the button to where the picture is taken was so slow that none of my pictures came out right.
It's also exceedingly difficult to use the viewfinder seeing as it runs at less than 5 fps and with extreme blur.
Capturing video was also a downer. Instead of the 30 fps @ VGA resolution that the chipset touts I'm getting 10-15 fps and I might add that to me it looks like it's even less than that. Utterly unwatchable.
So ok, video playback and the camera was pretty awful. But as I said I mainly intended to use this for business so I didn't think much more of it.
Then came the weekend. I was off to some friends that live out in the country. I had to go there by train.
So "hey, great time to load it up with some games".
Some of the games I've heard of was legend of steel and call of duty 2.
Well call of duty 2 was just as mess, with no open gl support.
legend works pretty well unless you actually try to play the game. As soon as the stylus hits that screen everything start going in slow motion.
I resorted to playing bubble breaker and tetris for the trip.
By this time I was pretty annoyed since my 3 year old Sony Ericsson el cheapo 3G-phone gave me a much better gaming experience than this.
So then I resorted to emulators. I really wanted to try out some nice emulating but again, performance was too low.
I didn't expect the TyTN II to be a Playstation Portable challenger but I didn't expect it to be just a typing machine with a calendar attached to it either.
I found this forum and surely enough I found out about the lack of drivers and everything suddenly made sense.
And the thing that bugs me the most about this is that the drivers are readily available to HTC, they just choose not to provide them to us.
So personally I'm a bit pissed off and I surely won't consider HTC a first hand alternative the next time I go shopping for a new PDA phone.
/Scincerele signed "Business users who expected more"
there you go (actually a true story even though a made it cheesy on purpose. )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said!!! This is why I left sprint. I got the Mogul, was advertised GPS when it came out. Well to this date, they are waiting for a "rom update".

woo, we really don't need to go into this because by token of that same logic:
Your computer is a business tool, not an entertainment device.
Your car is a business tool and necessity. You don't need a cd player or radio.
etc. etc.
Now why is this a big issue? Because it was false advertising. Because what we bought wasn't just a big mac and some fries. And because what we bought wasn't worth $15. What we bought was worth more than $500 US. What we bought was a device that could do everything and more. Like a car, you didn't just buy it for business, but for pleasure. And to falsely advertise and prey on the good faith of us consumers isn't just bad. It's criminal.

The point is, even if you consider that the TyTN II a business phone and don't care about it preforming way below it's possibilities, the other HTC devices based on the MSM7200 and MSM7500 chipsets, like the Touch Dual and Touch Cruise, which suffer from the same problems, are certainly meant for 'fun user', not 'business user'. And their PREDECESSORS did all of this fine.
So everything you said is still BS.

The youtube Video demonstrates the Kaiser PIE Scroll bug issue, not the Video driver issue btw. That bug was fixed here. Most cooked ROMs now incorporate the fix.

Yes this will be corrected on the site (the GDI video is way better for demonstration anyway, too bad it's not a comparison).. and the new support reports will be added. But if you ask me this is just a distraction. They know full well what the problem is, this is just to give the illusion they really didn't know, and are trying to figure it out, so they can say it really wasn't their fault. They're just acting out a play.
Really, the responce changing not 24 hours after the sites were launched (and they were informed of this, after all) and only 2 or 3 hours after a fairly large tech site frontpaged it? That is not a coincidence.

I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.

Scott_F said:
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.

Scott_F said:
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a Kaiser which has the power to do both. Too bad it doesn't. By the way, since you seem to be such a huge fan of having multiple devices for doing multiple things, you should probably sell that Kaiser to get a flip phone, buy a PDA, get yourself a dedicated GPS receiver, and a Walkman radio, since having an all-in-one would be far too much integration for you.

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome.
I bout my Tilt for 588 USD, totally ignoring my upgrade date, with the hopes that i would no longer need two devices. Until they fix the issue, making the device into what I thought I was buying, I will continue to be pissed about this.

this phone is not a graphics device? have you ever seen the datasheet of the MSM2700? THAT WAS THE REASON FOR I GOT MY KAISER!! (and the keyboard)

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because he has something made by Apple, doesn't mean it's time to talk ****. I personally don't like apple, but they have created some innovative features for the smart phone world.

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You dont need to insult people because they have different opinion on something.

Camera Performance on Tytn2 - my take

I have read alot of the threads involving the performance of the camera (in video mode and when operating the camera in still mode before taking a still image) and blaming this on the tytn2's lack of hardware video rendering. I have made some observations as a photographer.
My opinion is that the performance is due more to the exposure/sensitivity of the CCD than to the graphical rendering of the tytn2.
For example - in low light, the camera really suffers from low frames per second. Could this be due to the lack of sensitivity of the CCD i.e. the need to expose each frame longer per second to render the scene. The Tytns2's graphical engine can only display an image once it has received one from the camera, therefore providing slow frame per second updates.
Point the camera outdoors or directly at an indoor light and the fps of the camera shoots up to over 20 fps. The camera needs to expose the scene less , i.e. the shutter speed is quicker. The camera imagery is feeding more frames to the graphic hardware to render and therefore the fps goes up.
I would love the Tytn2 to render dark indoor scenes in a more fluid way but I feel this is a short fall of the camera hardware and not the graphic engine that is waiting for frames of imagery from it.
My orignial tytn does reproduce better results indoors and has a faster display update when framing stills or using moving video - BUT - the tytn only has a 2mp CCD.
Clearly there is a problem with lack of suitable graphic drivers from HTC but has the benefit from having a 3mp camera in the Tytn2 meant a trade off in camera video indoor performance??
Just my take!
Thanks
Stu

While what you say might make some sense I think it's a very steep performance drop. Too steep to just be explained by exposure issues?
I haven't really experienced a similair issue with any other camera. If you know of other products with similar problems is the performance drop really that bad?

I suppose wishing for an option that disables auto-brightness is going to get me no-where

I have to agree on this one; the fact that the camera performs nearly perfectly in good lighting does seem a little odd - I suppose performance issues could be introduced by the CPU rather than the GPU having to increase the brightness of each frame to display on the preview screen though?

undac said:
While what you say might make some sense I think it's a very steep performance drop. Too steep to just be explained by exposure issues?
I haven't really experienced a similair issue with any other camera. If you know of other products with similar problems is the performance drop really that bad?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I agree, which leads me believe it is the camera in the Tytn2 which is the problem. In good light the camera responds well - or should I say the graphics engine is able to do its job rendering the scene without any lag as it isn't waiting for the camera to send it data. The graphics engine either works or it doesn't. It is having to render a 320x240 image regardless of whether the camera is in low or good light.
If it can do this well in good light then, given a decent camera app, it should have no problem in low light. I am running the new V5 camera app from HTC btw.
Could I just say that I have signed the petition, as I believe there are other issues with the D3D drivers which have other implication on other apps.
Rgds
Stu

smads said:
My opinion is that the performance is due more to the exposure/sensitivity of the CCD than to the graphical rendering of the tytn2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also as an amateur-photographer, I totally agree with Stu on this. I like how you explained it!
E

eddythepeddy said:
Also as an amateur-photographer, I totally agree with Stu on this. I like how you explained it!
E
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cheers Eddy

smads said:
My opinion is that the performance is due more to the exposure/sensitivity of the CCD than to the graphical rendering of the tytn2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CCD! Thats it! I was talking about this in another post and had CMOS stuck in my mind, not CCD! Comparing results from a proper camera set to 3MP and the Kaiser the results vary a lot, especially in poorer lighting conditions, or scenes with a lot of colour. I have also noticed image quality differs between my 3yr old Nikon D70 DSLR (6MP) and brand new Casio Exilm compact (7.2MP) (the Nikon is better) and I'm sure this has to do with the quality of the Nikon hardware compared to the Casio. With this knowledge, I don't think any driver improvements are going to increase the performance / quality of the Kaiser camera.

Then why does Qualcomm's site say the camera can record 640x480 but that is not a setting on the Kaiser? Should this be easy to change?

What you say does makes sense, haven't really thought of that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9b1L7m7G0Y
This clip was shot on a Touch Dual (also 2mp CCD) in normal indoor lightning, is the fps anything like the Tytn?
I dont know what fps I was getting but when the device is turned away from a close bright source of light the fps drops noticeably.
Anyway, I can't say I'm pleased with the camera on my device. Nor overall video performance for that matter.

Honestly, whats the point of having the settings where you can switch different lightings when that dayum camera stays in night mode, no matter what setting you choose?

What do you mean by different lightings? If you mean the part where you can change the white balance for sunlight, light bulbs etc, then thats to stop the colour cast you would get otherwise. Sunlight would be normal, a incandescent bulb would be very orange, flourescent green (i think). If you mean something else, please clarify.

Any camera is dependent on how much light actually striikes the recording element... film or digital doesn't matter.
Also as a photog, one thing I've learn these years past is the more light you can get to strike whatever it is actually recording the image, the better the image clarity and true to life the color will be. So, a larger lens, or a lens with better glass (clarity) that lets in more light will almost always yield the better picture, all other settings and environmental variables being the same.
This likely applies to the SLR comparison above. I don't think this necessarily applies to the 8925 to 8525 comparison, as both seem equally tiny. However, my 8925 isn't yet a week old, and I've already got a scratch across the "lens" built into the battery cover. Also, this phone shoots through not one, but two pieces of plastic over the actual lens (or the outermost piece of glass that comprises said lens). I don't see how that can be good at all.
FWIW, sure the pictures are physically bigger (space on disc), but I agree with the consensus, the result isn't as good as the previous model except in bright (such as day) light.

Steve-C said:
What do you mean by different lightings? If you mean the part where you can change the white balance for sunlight, light bulbs etc, then thats to stop the colour cast you would get otherwise. Sunlight would be normal, a incandescent bulb would be very orange, flourescent green (i think). If you mean something else, please clarify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, that's what I meant, thanks, I couldn't figure out the name of those settings for the life of me!

Back to the CCD vs. driver issue. I don't believe this is a CCD issue. Doesn't the HTC Advantage use the same CCD? 3mp? If so does that camera suffer the same HORRIBLE low light performance? If not which I don't think it does it's not the CCD but the rendering. Also the Advantage uses a different chipset which would really show it's not the CCD but point directly at the chipset/lack of driver.
Also my HTC Touch performs WAY better in low light than my Kaiser. Why would HTC purchase a "newer" CCD that performs worse than their previous CCD? Why I ask?!
Does anyone else feel like the people running these smartphone manufacturing businesses do not have their finger on the pulse of the community? And I'm not talking about low expectation every day average Joe who's only phone they ever had was a Motorola Razr and could care less as long as they can check their email and get text messages... I'm talking about XDA community type people. People who want a PC in their pocket(with a phone built in). Not just a phone in their pocket that checks email...

juiceppc said:
Also my HTC Touch performs WAY better in low light than my Kaiser. Why would HTC purchase a "newer" CCD that performs worse than their previous CCD? Why I ask?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because they are cøcks.
But think of it this way:
Why would HTC purchase a "newer" Graphics chip that performs worse than their previous Graphics chip?

it's all about the money guys!
just think.. they put a ****ty one that is cheaper in lots of Kaiser..
People think.. oh Kaiser.. it's the best PDA around..
It must have all the best..
and then it turns out that they can do this things..
they can make a very large profit (cause of the millions PDA's sold arround the world).. changing just a few pieces..
well it's just a theory!
comment i'm insane

well looks like i'm crazy after all
cheers.

difference with Hermes model

Hi,
At work, we have about 15 Hermes (or SPV M3100) devices.
they are great and especially when we think about flashing them and working with application on it.
I was thinking to buy a TyTN II for my personal use, however as i do not know it so well (except was is on HTC web page), i would like to hear your experiences ?
if someone had also Hermes model before, it could be great to know comparison.
thx.
A.

If you are looking for a business device and don't want a PSP or DVD player in a phone...
Then this is the one...

ok, i've read those articles...
seems to be bad for HTC.
ok anyway i will not watch a movie on this PDA.
max, i will only read/write emails, use it as GPS tool, develop some applications, and for sure reflash ROM...
to take pictures or to use it for video conference is not the purpose...
but is it so bad for picture ?
i mean comparing to Hermes pda ?
thx.

the Camera is brilliant outdoors and in bright light. But low level lighting causes horribly low FPS, although saying that, if you take pictures in low level lighting, they are still quite clear, it's just difficult to take them becuase of the crap FPS on the viewfinder.

and what about the new WM7 ?
will it support it ?

I would imagine at some point one of the ROM chefs will bring out a WM7 ROM. They did with WM6 for the WM5 devices, but I have no idea how long that would be, or even if it would be possible.
From the write-ups I've seen, yes people go off about the video drivers, but those that use it for the purposes you (and I) want it for and have upgraded from the Hermes like the device. It has more memory and built in GPS. I came from the HTC Universal (XDA Exec, Orange never released a version I don't think) which is from the same era as the Hermes and the Tytn II is as good or better. I don't think you will regret the upgrade, but it's your money. PS it will play video's if you re-encode them to a smaller size / lower bitrate.

Replace my iPhone 7 with this...?

Hi guys, I'm an owner of an iPhone 7 (second hand, but perfect) and a few months ago I had a Xperia X Compact (that I loved). I use both systems (iOS and Android) but I was thinking to come back to the little green robot. Do you think I'll lose so much in terms of video and pictures ? For the others specs I think it's a great phone, but I still have some doubts for the camera performances...
I hope in your point of view

Viossy81 said:
Do you think I'll lose so much in terms of video and pictures ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The video camera is top notch and no sign of any distortion, aparently enabling steady shotseems to correct the image.
I think the problems with the stills camera are overblown, I've been taking lots of pictures since I received the phone and it's hardly noticable.
Given that it's an algorithum that fixes it, I am sure it's only a matter of time before Sony release a fix.
There are so many things that the phone does right. This is such a step forward fromm the X compact.

Didgesteve said:
The video camera is top notch and no sign of any distortion, aparently enabling steady shotseems to correct the image.
I think the problems with the stills camera are overblown, I've been taking lots of pictures since I received the phone and it's hardly noticable.
Given that it's an algorithum that fixes it, I am sure it's only a matter of time before Sony release a fix.
There are so many things that the phone does right. This is such a step forward fromm the X compact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much for your answer Didgesteve, I really appreciated that! One more question: what about the video quality in general? is it good? Especially for the Full HD (30 or 60 fps, I don't use 4k so much)...

Viossy81 said:
Thank you so much for your answer Didgesteve, I really appreciated that! One more question: what about the video quality in general? is it good? Especially for the Full HD (30 or 60 fps, I don't use 4k so much)...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Video quality is very good, better than the photo quality. The main ACTUAL problem with the camera is no OIS, so pictures can come out soft, especially in low light.
This may not compare well to your Iphone7 in many ways, but Android is a different animal, altogether. camera is not on par with Iphone7, but unless you are one of these camera snobs it isn't going to bother you much. Also, Android O has some bugs to be worked out, but nothing serious.

WaxysDargle said:
Video quality is very good, better than the photo quality. The main ACTUAL problem with the camera is no OIS, so pictures can come out soft, especially in low light.
This may not compare well to your Iphone7 in many ways, but Android is a different animal, altogether. camera is not on par with Iphone7, but unless you are one of these camera snobs it isn't going to bother you much. Also, Android O has some bugs to be worked out, but nothing serious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see...no, I'm not so snob about it , I loved X Compact camera so much, and I found it much fun and interesting than the iPhone (in terms of software functions and possibilities), It's just curiosity because I read a lot of gripes about distortions, bad colours, and so on... I'm seriously thinking to give it a chance

Viossy81 said:
I see...no, I'm not so snob about it , I loved X Compact camera so much, and I found it much fun and interesting than the iPhone (in terms of software functions and possibilities), It's just curiosity because I read a lot of gripes about distortions, bad colours, and so on... I'm seriously thinking to give it a chance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
colors do come out a bit red-ish in low light sometimes. you won't really notice the distortion unless taking a picture of a brick wall, checkerboard or something of the like.
if you liked the X compact that much, you will likely appreciate the XZ1 compact to a great degree. the camera is (arguably) the worst feature on the phone, and i still think it's a great camera. keeping in mind that it's not an s8 or iphone8, you'll have very little issues with XZ1C.

I bought a XZ1C for these reasons, (It will arrive this week)
1. Form factor - this phone is quite a bit smaller than the iPhone 7, and the 7 is already considered small. It is a tad bit bigger than the iPhone 5 (which had the best in hand feeling to me)
2. Battery life - Champion. I need a phone that will lasts all day and i've read nothign but amazing things
3. Android 8.0 - No other device than the Pixel 2 series has this update yet. Thats cool.
4. Camera Capabilities - It can do so much, including the 3D AR thing. Pretty fun, even if it isnt the best!
5. Headphone Jack - There is one, albeit the quality and loudness not the best, but it exists.
6. Memory card slot - Self explanatory.

FWIW, Sony have revealed that they have made a camera feature to fix or minimize the distortion on stills.
Refer to https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=74266872&postcount=60 that post to see. If the camera was your only hesitation for the xz1c, this should alleviate a lot of that.

You can refer to Amazon and sell it off Đánh giá iPhone 7: Sức hút đến từ đâu?