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Toshiba Portege G900 or Kaiser

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Toshiba+Portege+G900&search=
http://www.gsmarena.com/toshiba_g900-1905.php
are there any other Windows Mobile with 128 MB ram available?

After seing the Toshiba I am starting to doubt if I want the Kaizer....

No doubt the G900 screen resolution outclasses the Kaiser by a signicicant margin. However user's comments all over the net regarding useability of this screen in medium to bright sunlight conditions sort of puts me off. What is the benefit of a good resolution when probably half the time you cannot use it.
Regards

not the Toshiba please as there is the 'frozen' issue, hang when you off the phone and unable to reach you when someone calls you... Plus one for the Kaiser...

g900
it's easy to crictice and compare whith a device that is not out for sales. it's true that g900 havel some problems but nobody remember what about tytn when come out? i guess that in one month g900 problem's will bè solved and kaiser will come out in september with other problems that will maker people unhappy.cheers

Is the G900 a step forwards though?
To me this phone looks like only a slight step forward from the universal and only in form factor mostly.
It has no GPS and still a 2mpix camera. Both minus points. Ok.. it has Windows mobile 6 but who doesn't have that with half a clue.
No one is sure yet that the HTC omni is actually vapour ware or something real and if the OMNI were real its somewhere near where i would expect the G900 to be in terms of features.
The kaiser seems to have the next step forwards in all round features (apart from the screen res that is) but with a screen as small form factor as the Hermes would you want 800x480 or similar? it would be much harder to read generally though web pages would look better i agree.

also consider the g900 is a triband where the kaiser is quad not a problem in most places but here in the U.S if you dont have that 850 you are SoL in a large area still :-(

Hi
I'm also thinking of the Kaiser after returning the G900.
The screen is great but there are some things worth remembering:
1) No matter how good it is, it's not much use if you can't see it outside, it's a mobile device after all and that to me means in or outdoors use, but the G900 is indoors only. Believe me in bright daylight it's a struggle and in sunshine you can hardly tell if it is on or off.
2) Windows Mobile 6 doesn't run at the panels native resolution (it would be unusable if it did see point 3) and so is scaled bigger, so when in Windows Mobile you are getting the same amount of information per screen as you would with a 240x320 resolution. The ratio of the G900 means you end up with a bit more vertical space, but not a lot of difference.
3) When using anything that takes advantage of the G900 resolution, i.e. remote desktop or viewing a web page at 100%, while everything is pixel perfect and sharp, text and images are so incredibly small I felt like I was going cross eyed after a few minutes of squinting at the screen. You'd struggle to read anything on the move at that resolution and certainly couldn't outdoors in daylight.
4) The screen measures 45x65mm, I'd recommend cutting out a piece of paper to those dimensions just to visualise how small that screen is. Most pictures you view on your computer of the G900 will see the screen larger than real-life so it's a bit misleading when you screen shots.
Taking the practicalities into account of just how usable the G900 resolution is, and realising the screens outdoor limitations and it's tiny size making anything running to take advantage of that resolution migraine inducing, I can understand completely why the Kaiser is still 240x320, it's a practical resolution for a tiny display.
The money saved on the Kaiser by having a sensible resolution means you get a lot more extra elsewhere.
If the G900 had a 240x320 resolution, would anyone show any interest in this phone for it's other features?
The G900 also has reliability issues that may or may not get satisfactorily fixed.
Regards
Phil

Say what you want. The one thing I said I wish the Kaiser had was a bigger screen. I wouldn't buy the device because I'm not a fan of Toshiba but the form factor is impressive along with the fingerprint identification and the mouse type availability (sort of).

PhilipL said:
Hi
I'm also thinking of the Kaiser after returning the G900.
The screen is great but there are some things worth remembering:
1) No matter how good it is, it's not much use if you can't see it outside, it's a mobile device after all and that to me means in or outdoors use, but the G900 is indoors only. Believe me in bright daylight it's a struggle and in sunshine you can hardly tell if it is on or off.
2) Windows Mobile 6 doesn't run at the panels native resolution (it would be unusable if it did see point 3) and so is scaled bigger, so when in Windows Mobile you are getting the same amount of information per screen as you would with a 240x320 resolution. The ratio of the G900 means you end up with a bit more vertical space, but not a lot of difference.
3) When using anything that takes advantage of the G900 resolution, i.e. remote desktop or viewing a web page at 100%, while everything is pixel perfect and sharp, text and images are so incredibly small I felt like I was going cross eyed after a few minutes of squinting at the screen. You'd struggle to read anything on the move at that resolution and certainly couldn't outdoors in daylight.
4) The screen measures 45x65mm, I'd recommend cutting out a piece of paper to those dimensions just to visualise how small that screen is. Most pictures you view on your computer of the G900 will see the screen larger than real-life so it's a bit misleading when you screen shots.
Taking the practicalities into account of just how usable the G900 resolution is, and realising the screens outdoor limitations and it's tiny size making anything running to take advantage of that resolution migraine inducing, I can understand completely why the Kaiser is still 240x320, it's a practical resolution for a tiny display.
The money saved on the Kaiser by having a sensible resolution means you get a lot more extra elsewhere.
If the G900 had a 240x320 resolution, would anyone show any interest in this phone for it's other features?
The G900 also has reliability issues that may or may not get satisfactorily fixed.
Regards
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay - I wish I read your post before my last. Great write-up.

PhilipL said:
2) Windows Mobile 6 doesn't run at the panels native resolution (it would be unusable if it did see point 3) and so is scaled bigger, so when in Windows Mobile you are getting the same amount of information per screen as you would with a 240x320 resolution. The ratio of the G900 means you end up with a bit more vertical space, but not a lot of difference.
3) When using anything that takes advantage of the G900 resolution, i.e. remote desktop or viewing a web page at 100%, while everything is pixel perfect and sharp, text and images are so incredibly small I felt like I was going cross eyed after a few minutes of squinting at the screen. You'd struggle to read anything on the move at that resolution and certainly couldn't outdoors in daylight.
If the G900 had a 240x320 resolution, would anyone show any interest in this phone for it's other features?
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't you technically increase the the screen's running resolution to its native by editting the registry? Like on the Universal there are apps or registry changes you can make for it to actually display true-vga. Maybe it can also be done on the g900.
-Edit:: Reread point 3. lol Good point, the universal's screen was big and was able to use vga pretty well. I could imagine the g900's screen size running true wvga. I'm sure it would be quite a problem reading anything on it.

Great display
I just got one and the display is great. If you have to work with larger excel tables, browsing etc.
It has Flash light on the Camera! Something the HTC's lack. The processor is great too. Good speed. It is just a mater of time until we open a section for this phone on XDA so there should me more stuff comming up for the phone.
I like it a lot, the price is not bad as well. It costs less than SonyEricsson's P900 when they lauch it.
If you need security this is the phone. It has fingerprint reader. The security is must for me. Also the card reader is conveniently placed on the side of the unit so you can change the MiniSD very easily. Also the MiniSD is 1/2 the price of MicroSD so I can buy more cards. I'm sure Toshiba will give great support as well.
They allready posted a Patch for the freezing problem if you get one. I personaly haven't got this problem so I don't need patch... Also very nice camera for the Video Conferencing. And a nice VoIP option...
Also great backlit keyboard.
Great Phone.
I'm sure HTC will hit with something similar. If they get something better in a year or two I will sell the G900 and buy HTC.
I had P3300, they promised WM6 original ROM for June!!!!! Nothing.
Thanks got there is XDA and Tom Codon roms in order to get better value from the P3300.

Forgot to mention tha flash
There is Flash Light for the Camera which HTC lacks, at least the P3300. I'm not aware of HTC with FlashLight on the camera.

I had a g900 and the screen is fantastic for web pages.. I could read everything pretty easily when viewing a full page, but zooming in and out is easy too.
The locking issue should now be fixed with a patch, however I did experience other crashes too. The main reason I returned it was that the radio is terrible! I hardly ever got any 3g reception which renders its main feature, fast internet, pretty much useless. Even in central London.

haha, just wondering if TouchFlO would able to run on G900

wm6 supports karger natuve resolutiomn than 320 240 i think niow 640 by 480
g900 was my top choice but no 3g in the us the 3g is single band only!
the glofish only have 64m of ram

Agree with PhilipL, the resolution of G900 is nice but it is not practical.
The physical screen size is too small for 800x480.
3.5" VGA would be the best!

No way to the Portege!!
I owned the Toshiba 2032 (aka Audiovox Thera) a few years back. What a disaster!! It was by far the worse PPC device I ever owned! Toshiba provided absolutely NO support for that thing. I vowed then to NEVER buy another Toshiba device.
TEC

I have Touchflow running on this phone G900 and it's very Quick.

TyTn II, Touch Cruise or wait?

Hello,
I'm really hesitating, any advice welcome.
I presently have a 8310 and my main uses are Exchange ActiveSync, internet browsing (long commutes) and SMS.
I would like a new 3G WiFi phone with a bigger screen, if possible faster, and GPS would be cool.
The TyTn II seems almost perfect but I hear the batteries are limited, it is not that fast & there are 3D problems. So I guess there will be a TyTn III, but when?
The Cruise seems cool, but is it easy to write small text messages?
So really the question is, TyTn II, Cruise or wait?
Thanks,
Cedric

If they could get the TyTN II Radio chip & the video preformance to work I would say TyTN II.
Or else Touch Cruise.
But the Cruise looks ugly :O

I would wait for the Touch Cruise II.

eddythepeddy said:
I would wait for the Touch Cruise II.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Which issues do you see with the present Touch Cruise?

I would stay away from HTC products altogether. Unless customer service is not important for you and you enjoy companies treating you like s*** after you've paid their products dearly..

I exchanged 4 TyTN IIs (ATT Tilt version) before finally getting one without a problem. I almost even went back to the original TyTN (ATT 8525).
So I say wait for a new release.

ericc191 said:
I exchanged 4 TyTN IIs (ATT Tilt version) before finally getting one without a problem. I almost even went back to the original TyTN (ATT 8525).
So I say wait for a new release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tilt sucks anyway

I would go for the Cruise. Texting without a physical keyboard is not that important anymore with the invent of innovative soft keyboards (SIP's) such as the Cooket's TouchPal and the PCM keyboard.
Presently I have the TyTn II and I find myself using the slide out keyboard less and less and most of the time I am using Cootek's Touchpal for example this message.

srmz said:
I would go for the Cruise. Texting without a physical keyboard is not that important anymore with the invent of innovative soft keyboards (SIP's) such as the Cooket's TouchPal and the PCM keyboard.
Presently I have the TyTn II and I find myself using the slide out keyboard less and less and most of the time I am using Cootek's Touchpal for example this message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I posted about this yesterday as well. I am leaning towards selling my Tilt and getting the Cruise when it comes out, but it really depends on whether the touch screen is better. If it the same as the Tilt (not sensitive enough for scrolling and swiping plus prone to unintentional taps), I'll stick with the Tilt.
My post...
Touch screen features on Kaiser vs Elf/Cruise
Not that I am really disappointed with the Kaiser, but I have been wondering as of late if the Crusie might be a better fit for me. All things considered, internally the two are pretty similar with the only additional feature of the Crusie being FM radio, which I would probably use.
Externally, the Cruise goes SANS keyboard in favor of the touch screen. In keeping with the touch screen design, it has far fewer buttons over all and has a slight size advantage.
So looking at it, the package is pretty attractive, seems less prone to mechanical wear and tear and I find myself wondering if I could do without the slide out keyboard. I am pretty good with the block recognizer, and in cases where I might use a keyboard, some of the adaptations of the iPhone soft keyboard seem like they would be a decent alternative for my relatively light keyboard use.
Getting down to it though, I am a bit concerned I would be disappointed with the touch screen, and if the touch screen does not work well, I would definitely rather have the keyboard.
So my question is if anyone has some hard facts on the differences between the screen technologies. does it work like the iPhone where it responds only to touch, not to inadvertant tabs while in you pocket or in the case?
Can anyone can provide a "hands on" comparison between using the touch features on the Kasier, vs using the touch features on the Cruise. Or given that the Cruise is pertty new, is the Elf screen technology exactly the same such that trying one out would give me a good indication of how the Cruise would work?

xmoo said:
Tilt sucks anyway
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why, because you were lucky enough to pay more for your version?
anyways, i say get the tytn II now, as the anticipation and wait for it took a long time to materialize, and its replacement hasn't really leaked yet even. the kaisers and tilts i've seen and had were definitely problem-free.

Thanks for all the inputs.
Seems that the screen keyboard works good enough to replace a hardware one.
I'll have a look at the Polaris when it is available and if it's not as ugly as it looks I'll go for it.
Otherwise I'll wait for a Touch II, which I hope will have a decent processor, Wifi, 3G+, GPS and who knows perhaps a VGA screen

I'm sorry, WHAT? let's try some logical deductive reasoning... okay?
jgermuga said:
Yes, I posted about this yesterday as well. I am leaning towards selling my Tilt and getting the Cruise when it comes out, but it really depends on whether the touch screen is better. If it the same as the Tilt (not sensitive enough for scrolling and swiping plus prone to unintentional taps), I'll stick with the Tilt.
My post...
Touch screen features on Kaiser vs Elf/Cruise
Not that I am really disappointed with the Kaiser, but I have been wondering as of late if the Crusie might be a better fit for me. All things considered, internally the two are pretty similar with the only additional feature of the Crusie being FM radio, which I would probably use.
Externally, the Cruise goes SANS keyboard in favor of the touch screen. In keeping with the touch screen design, it has far fewer buttons over all and has a slight size advantage.
So looking at it, the package is pretty attractive, seems less prone to mechanical wear and tear and I find myself wondering if I could do without the slide out keyboard. I am pretty good with the block recognizer, and in cases where I might use a keyboard, some of the adaptations of the iPhone soft keyboard seem like they would be a decent alternative for my relatively light keyboard use.
Getting down to it though, I am a bit concerned I would be disappointed with the touch screen, and if the touch screen does not work well, I would definitely rather have the keyboard.
So my question is if anyone has some hard facts on the differences between the screen technologies. does it work like the iPhone where it responds only to touch, not to inadvertant tabs while in you pocket or in the case?
Can anyone can provide a "hands on" comparison between using the touch features on the Kasier, vs using the touch features on the Cruise. Or given that the Cruise is pertty new, is the Elf screen technology exactly the same such that trying one out would give me a good indication of how the Cruise would work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going let comments above stand for themselves as I present some real facts for consideration:
Tilt/kaiser/tytn II: screen sensitivity is adjustable and may be calibrated bilinearly with the apropriate software through the rom, or during field test mode.
- processor is 2x as powerful as the touch.
- 4x amount of ram & 2x the amount for rom, AND can handle larger sd cards that the elf.
ELF's digitizer is the very same as the kaiser but based on multi-point user interface, which was in final stages of delopment/testing when kaiser was released. it's predacessor (8525/hermes) had the same screen as the 8125/Wizard.
the tilt is quick both using it's own IE App or to tether s the conection for a pc or laptop.
look at the raw specks and capabilities hands down, it's not even questionable, tilt overpowers the touch period. it's a fact, plain and simple. the only purpose for the elf was htc's knee jerk response to the iphone, before they knew what horrendous disasters the iphones were going to become.
seriously, I've field tested all the PDA phones for cingular/att plus a few others including touch. touch was designed around an interface. focused on ensuring the interface thread priority superceeded all else... good for apearance, nothing else.

I have two Tilts and one Kaiser.
I have had no problems with them.
Maybe I am not as demanding as other people.
The Tilts are running Dutty's HTC Hybrid Final as is the Kaiser.
Have tried all the new ROM's but always come back to it.

Wait for a new release or, if the size / weight isn't a problem, get a HTC Universal. I think the Tilt will be only worth the price if and only if the 3D / video drivers are fixed - in no way in its present state. (Of course, if you won't want to play back movies / play games at all, this won't be an issue for you.)
Alternatively, you might want to consider getting the Nokia N95, particularly if you're into multimedia and don't necessarily need touchscreen / thumbboard - you'll love it with the new, v20 firmware. It's just lovely: lightweight, very fast, is Next Gen N-Gage compliant, has 3D hardware acceleration, has the best multimedia features (built-in, stereo speakers, built-in even UPnP support and a decent A2DP implementation - much better than that of the Tilt / Kaiser) and knows a lot "out of the box", even w/o installing third-party apps.

djblu said:
I'm going let comments above stand for themselves as I present some real facts for consideration:
Tilt/kaiser/tytn II: screen sensitivity is adjustable and may be calibrated bilinearly with the apropriate software through the rom, or during field test mode.
- processor is 2x as powerful as the touch.
- 4x amount of ram & 2x the amount for rom, AND can handle larger sd cards that the elf.
ELF's digitizer is the very same as the kaiser but based on multi-point user interface, which was in final stages of delopment/testing when kaiser was released. it's predacessor (8525/hermes) had the same screen as the 8125/Wizard.
the tilt is quick both using it's own IE App or to tether s the conection for a pc or laptop.
look at the raw specks and capabilities hands down, it's not even questionable, tilt overpowers the touch period. it's a fact, plain and simple. the only purpose for the elf was htc's knee jerk response to the iphone, before they knew what horrendous disasters the iphones were going to become.
seriously, I've field tested all the PDA phones for cingular/att plus a few others including touch. touch was designed around an interface. focused on ensuring the interface thread priority superceeded all else... good for apearance, nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good comparison of the TyTN II to the Touch, but I think he was asking about the Touch Cruise? Same CPU and memory, etc. How is typing on the touch screen for a short SMS?

My device, Axim X51V, is quite a fast one, or this is my impression about this kind of CPU's. Touchpal made me feel I was using a 200MHz OMAP.
So after a few tests in which I've seen it doesn't do much I've uninstalled it quickly. Sorry, but there are better alternatives, so I won't stick to something inferior.
If anyone needs to know, I'm currently using FTPRO, it's simply the best KB so far, you can download the CAB Attached and give it a try. More details on www.fingertouchpro.com
Ciao!

Cedricm said:
Hello,
I'm really hesitating, any advice welcome.
I presently have a 8310 and my main uses are Exchange ActiveSync, internet browsing (long commutes) and SMS.
I would like a new 3G WiFi phone with a bigger screen, if possible faster, and GPS would be cool.
The TyTn II seems almost perfect but I hear the batteries are limited, it is not that fast & there are 3D problems. So I guess there will be a TyTn III, but when?
The Cruise seems cool, but is it easy to write small text messages?
So really the question is, TyTn II, Cruise or wait?
Thanks,
Cedric
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you were getting into this a little earlier in the year i would tell you to get the tilt or htc kaiser hands down.... (same phone).
But since you are just now looking, and the HTC Diamond and HTC Touch Pro are right around the corner....I personally would recommend waiting to see what they are about. Then, watch some youtube videos, read some ACTUAL reviews from people who have the phone (not companies who review the phone). If you still want it then, buy one of those.
Many of the current devices out have issues, or flaws, that won't or SHOULDN'T exist in the upcoming series of phones. The Diamond specifically appears to have resolved most of the problems we see with our Kaiser/Tilt's.
So... my suggestion, wait it out for at least another month or so... IF you can.
Oh, and there's always the iphone 3g, and yes i'm totally 100% serious. It's a nice little gadget (even if everyone on this forum is in denial about it and hates them for some reason).

My Kaiser/Hermes comparison review.

I have to say after having both phones for the last month I'm not that impressed with the Kaiser.
The lack of accelerated drivers alone is a disappointment.
Other things I don't like are:
No Infrared - I'm not sure what the justification for removing this is.. ok it may save a few pence off the cost - and maybe not many people use it.. but for those of us that do its an annoyance.
Keyboard is worse than the TyTN in every way, it feels worse and definitly doesn't work as well. It misses out more keypresses than the TyTN ever did. (I appreciate this could well be a ROM issue but i've tried a few and they all do it.)
Screen presses are ignored a LOT.. compared to the TyTN its absolutly hellish having to whack the screen sometimes for it to respond.
No light (ok it was crap for flash anyways but it was useful with VJCandela as a torch)
Autofocus isn't any better at focussing, its just slower. It's better for macro shots definitly.. and you dont have to manually twist the lever on the back of the phone.. but it certainly isnt up to sony ericsson AF camera standards.
The softkeys are absolutly stupid, if you have big fingers you press start call or end call half the time instead of the softkey purely because of the ridge that runs round the top of the softkeys from the call buttons being too high.
The internal softkeys are also now in a stupid place to make way for the blindingly bright caps lock lights that were not needed..
The phone slides the wrong way making it incompatible with cases and some accessories for the TyTN as well as frustrating to use for a TyTN user.
The stylus is crap compared to the extending one on the TyTN, and again means I cant use the spare ones id bought for the TyTN..
The extra memory and flash space are very nice.. and the GPS is fantastic.. but I'd rather have those 2 features alone bolted onto the hermes hardware..
Way to go HTC.. alienate one of the biggest markets.. I certainly wont be upgrading again in the future before I have a good look at competitors devices..

Some of your points on the touchscreen responsiveness etc are fair, but I think the design and overall build quality of the Kaiser beats the Hermes. The tilting screen is a really nice improvement, and while I can see how the change in orientation might be difficult for some Hermes owners to adjust to, I don't see how it's in any way inferior - just different. I prefer the solid stylus to an extending version too.
It's much better having all the buttons grouped together IMO - everything's within easy reach. I have (I'd say) moderate size fingers, and have no problem there.
Both camera and keyboard performance could be improved, but I think we're getting into the whole, wider driver issue there. I think the Kaiser still has the potential to be much improved, and I'm vaguely hopeful that those improvements will come.

sambartle said:
I have to say after having both phones for the last month I'm not that impressed with the Kaiser.
The lack of accelerated drivers alone is a disappointment.
Other things I don't like are:
No Infrared - I'm not sure what the justification for removing this is.. ok it may save a few pence off the cost - and maybe not many people use it.. but for those of us that do its an annoyance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its an ancient technology that has been surpassed by both bluetooth and wifi, what could you possibly need to use infrared for these days?
sambartle said:
Keyboard is worse than the TyTN in every way, it feels worse and definitly doesn't work as well. It misses out more keypresses than the TyTN ever did. (I appreciate this could well be a ROM issue but i've tried a few and they all do it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find the keyboard on the Kaiser, sooo much better than on the Hermes, with the Hermes I actually used the onscreen keyboard instead, it was that bad. The kaiser now has a very usable keyboard that is finally comparable with my P990i. With the only exception being the space-bar, which for some reason can press twice (left and right) which is slightly annoying.
sambartle said:
Screen presses are ignored a LOT.. compared to the TyTN its absolutly hellish having to whack the screen sometimes for it to respond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have an issue with this at all, screen seems to be the same as it was on the Hermes, perhaps take a look at KaiserTweak, there's a setting in there I think.
sambartle said:
No light (ok it was crap for flash anyways but it was useful with VJCandela as a torch)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you here, a light would have been nice, but only for using it as a torch, useless for taking photos.
sambartle said:
Autofocus isn't any better at focussing, its just slower. It's better for macro shots definitly.. and you dont have to manually twist the lever on the back of the phone.. but it certainly isnt up to sony ericsson AF camera standards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really take many pictures, and even less since the camera (due to driver issue) is so bad on the Kaiser, but I will agree, that compared to my P990i, the autofocus is poor.
The softkeys are absolutly stupid, if you have big fingers you press start call or end call half the time instead of the softkey purely because of the ridge that runs round the top of the softkeys from the call buttons being too high.
sambartle said:
The internal softkeys are also now in a stupid place to make way for the blindingly bright caps lock lights that were not needed..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the complete opposite, I always used to catch them stupid softkeys on the Hermes keyboard, so I am happy they've been moved now
sambartle said:
The phone slides the wrong way making it incompatible with cases and some accessories for the TyTN as well as frustrating to use for a TyTN user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer having the d-pad on the left (even though I'm right handed), and thus have no issue with the sliding of the phone, it doesn't take long to get used to, and I don't own any accessories affected by this.
sambartle said:
The stylus is crap compared to the extending one on the TyTN, and again means I cant use the spare ones id bought for the TyTN..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FINALLY, HTC did something good, got rid of that god-damn awful stylus from the Hermes, that was the worst stylus I'd ever used. P990i and Kaiser, have much better non-extending ones.

I have to disagree with the OP.
The Kaiser is heads and tails and improvement over the Hermes.
Agreed, the keyboard is one step down in some respects, but umm...that is about it.
It is a solid device with a high end feel. The Tytn is the VW of smartphones, Kaiser is when you walked across the parking lot to the Audi dealership

sambartle said:
I have to say after having both phones for the last month I'm not that impressed with the Kaiser.
The lack of accelerated drivers alone is a disappointment.
Other things I don't like are:
No Infrared - I'm not sure what the justification for removing this is.. ok it may save a few pence off the cost - and maybe not many people use it.. but for those of us that do its an annoyance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like posted before me, it's an ancient technology. Why IR when you have bluetooth? Plus, you knew about the phone not having IR, so, technically, it's your fault for buying the device and complaining about not having an IR.
Keyboard is worse than the TyTN in every way, it feels worse and definitly doesn't work as well. It misses out more keypresses than the TyTN ever did. (I appreciate this could well be a ROM issue but i've tried a few and they all do it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use the built-in keyboard much so I can't comment much but the times I have used it, I have felt no difference between 8525 and Tilt.
Screen presses are ignored a LOT.. compared to the TyTN its absolutly hellish having to whack the screen sometimes for it to respond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not have this problem at all.
No light (ok it was crap for flash anyways but it was useful with VJCandela as a torch)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never cared for it (for taking pictures or flashlight).
Autofocus isn't any better at focussing, its just slower. It's better for macro shots definitly.. and you dont have to manually twist the lever on the back of the phone.. but it certainly isnt up to sony ericsson AF camera standards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you there, but, then again, I have my digital camera for taking pictures.
The softkeys are absolutly stupid, if you have big fingers you press start call or end call half the time instead of the softkey purely because of the ridge that runs round the top of the softkeys from the call buttons being too high.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problems here!
The internal softkeys are also now in a stupid place to make way for the blindingly bright caps lock lights that were not needed..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am ok with the placements (better than 8525/Hermes).
The phone slides the wrong way making it incompatible with cases and some accessories for the TyTN as well as frustrating to use for a TyTN user.
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Again, you knew about the design before buying it, so, you cannot complain.
The stylus is crap compared to the extending one on the TyTN, and again means I cant use the spare ones id bought for the TyTN..
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The stylus is WAYYYYYY BETTEEERRR than the telescoping one in 8525/Hermes.
The extra memory and flash space are very nice.. and the GPS is fantastic.. but I'd rather have those 2 features alone bolted onto the hermes hardware..
Way to go HTC.. alienate one of the biggest markets.. I certainly wont be upgrading again in the future before I have a good look at competitors devices..
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Completenutter2 said:
I prefer having the d-pad on the left (even though I'm right handed), and thus have no issue with the sliding of the phone, it doesn't take long to get used to, and I don't own any accessories affected by this.
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Never thought about this really but now I've looked at it, the left handed D-pad when in landscape is more compatible with a gaming joypad and, as I am right handed, I dont have to shuffle the stylus around in my hand to use it!!
HTC and ergonomics...Whatever next!!

Overall I find the Kaiser an improvent on the Hermes, with a couple of notable exceptions:
-The slightly inferior keyboard (but I've adapted to it)
-The idiotic door on the mico-sd port. You need tweezers to open it. What was wrong with the spring loaded slot on the Hermes?
-The soft reset switch on the Kaiser is too close to the delicate mini USB port. It is very easy to accidentally jam the stylus into the USB port and render the phone completely worthless.
IMO the non-telescoping stylus is a HUGE improvement over the Hermes. Give it a few months and those telescoping styli become loose or end up expanding to their full length on their own for no reason. The Kaiser stylus sits nice and flush with the corner of the case, yet the 'nub' is big enough that you don't have to use tweezers or ruin your fingernails trying to dig it out of the silo.

lcohen999 said:
It is a solid device with a high end feel. The Tytn is the VW of smartphones, Kaiser is when you walked across the parking lot to the Audi dealership
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And paid more for the same car?
Sorry, I like Audi, but to me you don't get your money's worth over VW.
So I think your comparison is right on. The Tytn II, seems like it should be better, and you paid more for it, but after all is said and done, it's not really worth the extra cash.

my 8525 was free and so was my tilt so i feel the price was worth it. ha!

FWIW the Kaiser is streets ahead of the Hermes.
The Hermes was a huge leap forward from the Wizard, and the Kaiser is another leap forward again.
Of course if mine didnt scroll or actually do what I wanted when I wanted it to then I might feel differently...

jgermuga said:
And paid more for the same car?
Sorry, I like Audi, but to me you don't get your money's worth over VW.
So I think your comparison is right on. The Tytn II, seems like it should be better, and you paid more for it, but after all is said and done, it's not really worth the extra cash.
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A3 vs GTi
no comparison (I'm sure you can guess what I drive)

lcohen999 said:
A3 vs GTi
no comparison (I'm sure you can guess what I drive)
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OH..got an A3 as my business car last trip back to the UK...Was like Sh*t off of the preverbial shovel (as we say in Yorkshire!).
Loved that week...Mmmmm!
Soz, was drooling there...
Back to my basic Murano...

Eos vs A4 Cabriolet, $7,500 less + DSG and a hard top with sunroof (no quatro option though).
Guess which I drive?

jgermuga said:
Eos vs A4 Cabriolet, $7,500 less + DSG and a hard top with sunroof (no quatro option though).
Guess which I drive?
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SOD OFF!! hate these people with nice cars....
OOps..anyone think we have gone off topic a bit here...

sambartle said:
No Infrared - I'm not sure what the justification for removing this is.. ok it may save a few pence off the cost - and maybe not many people use it.. but for those of us that do its an annoyance.
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Generally I love the Kaiser (as I'm sure some know from a certain thread!) and I have no way to compare it to the Hermes. But I do have to agree on the IR thing. It was great for quick file transfers and Activesync. OK so I have now spent a day fiddling with the Kaiser and got my laptop and it working just as well over bluetooth but it was still nice as a backup incase the USB ever failed as you can't establish a new partnership over bluetooth, only IR / USB. Another thing I did use IR for was as a remote shutter release for my camera. Bit of hacking and it saved me UK£25 on buying the proper remote. So there are still applications for IR.
Also the camera flash(light). I came from the HTC Universal which had these things too.
Overall, I knew what the Kaiser had, what it didn't and made my choice with that info so I can't complain, just agreeeing with the OP on a couple of points that I can relate too.
Oh, and I drive a Vauxhall (GM) car, never bought into buying a badge! (though you could buy a Skoda, it's the same car, just a lower purchase price!)

Steve-C said:
Generally I love the Kaiser (as I'm sure some know from a certain thread!) and I have no way to compare it to the Hermes. But I do have to agree on the IR thing. It was great for quick file transfers and Activesync. OK so I have now spent a day fiddling with the Kaiser and got my laptop and it working just as well over bluetooth but it was still nice as a backup incase the USB ever failed as you can't establish a new partnership over bluetooth, only IR / USB. Another thing I did use IR for was as a remote shutter release for my camera. Bit of hacking and it saved me UK£25 on buying the proper remote. So there are still applications for IR.
Also the camera flash(light). I came from the HTC Universal which had these things too.
Overall, I knew what the Kaiser had, what it didn't and made my choice with that info so I can't complain, just agreeeing with the OP on a couple of points that I can relate too.
Oh, and I drive a Vauxhall (GM) car, never bought into buying a badge! (though you could buy a Skoda, it's the same car, just a lower purchase price!)
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Totally agree with all your points on the Kaiser Steve, as to be honest, I TOO miss the IR for its compatibility to Vcard transfer to people with older phones.
A Skoda???

Audi A4 £23k, VW Passat £19k, Skoda Octavia £14k. Same floorpan, engine, errr everything really. Is a badge really worth £9,000?! (And the Skoda comes with a flappy paddle gearbox as standard...) Off topic...nah!

IMO the d-pad is muuuuch better than the tytn's. the only thing i was missing when i've started using Kaiser was the comm-manager button,
but with Hbutton it's no big deal to map another key to Comm-Manager.
I never liked the Email and Internet button at the top...now i'm quiet happy with all buttons in one place...
No need for flashlight...never used, and if i ever use, plamp would be enough bright i think.
And the Keyboard feels much better with the fingers...just love it...
my car: opel omega..... no further comment...

My biggest form factor nit compared to the 8125 is that the stylis needs to be retrieved from the left side while the keyboard is open, which makes it difficult to pull out if you are right handed as your left hand is in the way. On the 8125, it was in the upper right hand corner while the keyboard was out and pulling the stylis was very handy. Not sure how the 8525 was set up, but I think it was the same as the 8125, right?
Besides that, the 8125 had stereo speakers, which I sometimes used for music but really made the most difference when on a speaker phone call. And the normal 2.5" headphone jack was a plus. Why HTC does not include a USB adapter (which csot more to ship than the purchase price) is beyond me. It's like someone said, "Hey, let come up with a proprietary headphone jack so that no one can use a third party headset without buying an adapter, which we don't even sell???
Do they think they are Apple or sumthin?

I knew that would be a controversial post..
I actually agree that the D-Pad on the left is better... However.. the phones crap for playing games anyways.. and once they had ruined it on the hermes i'd have preferred it to stay how it was as I was used to it and my accessories would have worked.
I'm now wondering if the reason my screen is so poor compared to the hermes is something to do with the screen protector then if no one else sees it as a problem, I used a custom crystal-clear harder more plastic one on the hermes.. on the kaiser I used the one supplied with the phone (the crappy rubbery plastic one supplied in the box - im not sure if it comes with all tytn2's or if Orange add it), maybe that is in some way affecting the screen?
The stylus I might get used too.. but at the moment I definitely prefer the thicker one from the tytn and never had any problems with it coming loose (though I lost a few from putting them down and walking off)
Infrared is useful for all kinds of things.. I can use it to talk to older phones, older laptops for a modem connection, servers for a terminal.. all sorts of stuff. Its almost essential. I didn't actually know until the first time I tried to use it that it wasn't there!! Its a shocking ommission in my eyes.
Its like removing the dvd drive from every pc and saying yes dvd's are old you should all burn and use hddvd or bluray now.
The build quality is better, or feels it.. but I think time will tell how robust the hinge is, it certainly doesn't look as strong as the hermes fixing..

Is it worth trading Hermes up for Kaiser?

I'm currently using Hermes (8525) and thinking about getting Kaiser. If you have had Hermes before I'd like to hear your word of wisdom from whomever have had both devices for practical usage. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury to keep both.
What I love about the Hermes that's not found in Kaiser are flash light, IrDa, and comm manager button. On the other hand Hermes is missing GPS, bigger memory, the "possibility" of having hardware accelerated graphics, supposedly better camera, tilting hinges, and in my particular case front camera (I'm using 8525 and there's no _practical_ solution to put the front camera in and if I were to get Kaiser it better be NOT AT&T tilt that has no front camera as well).
I'm afraid I'll be missing Hermes exclusive features if I switch to Kaiser, even though I don't use those features too often. It is however very tempting especially the built in GPS feature (yes I have followed the hidden GPS thread and struck down by the bad news that we can't practically revive the chip in Hermes).
A word of advice or two from you guys would be very appreciated.
PS: I posted this in Hermes forum a while ago and I'm also interested to hear Kaiser owners' opinion about this too.

cyberblue said:
I'm currently using Hermes (8525) and thinking about getting Kaiser. If you have had Hermes before I'd like to hear your word of wisdom from whomever have had both devices for practical usage. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury to keep both.
What I love about the Hermes that's not found in Kaiser are flash light, IrDa, and comm manager button. On the other hand Hermes is missing GPS, bigger memory, the "possibility" of having hardware accelerated graphics, supposedly better camera, tilting hinges, and in my particular case front camera (I'm using 8525 and there's no _practical_ solution to put the front camera in and if I were to get Kaiser it better be NOT AT&T tilt that has no front camera as well).
I'm afraid I'll be missing Hermes exclusive features if I switch to Kaiser, even though I don't use those features too often. It is however very tempting especially the built in GPS feature (yes I have followed the hidden GPS thread and struck down by the bad news that we can't practically revive the chip in Hermes).
A word of advice or two from you guys would be very appreciated.
PS: I posted this in Hermes forum a while ago and I'm also interested to hear Kaiser owners' opinion about this too.
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This is kind of like going onto the Corvette Club of America forum and saying " I'm thinking of trading my Chevy Malibu for a Corvette, what do you think?" My Tilt is Great. I personally have never experience any of the quirks others have complained about. If you like the new features and upgrade possibilites better. Then do it.

Out of everything that I read, I decided that it was NOT worth the upgrade. Then my Hermes started acting up BADLY with white screens and buttons that stopped working. So I reluctantly upgraded sooner than I intended.
I have loved my Kaiser. The 400mhz vs 400mhz CPU doesnt explain much why my Kaiser is so much faster than my Hermes. And I love the GPS .... and the battery life is better.
Also I never could find a radio where I could leave on 3G inside my condo and not drop calls. I tried and tried and tried. I leave 3G on my Kaiser with NO dropped calls even inside exactly where my Hermes would drop calls - and the 3G is not sucking the battery like on the Hermes.

I was the same way. I think it depends on the price that you will have to pay. I was able to get the Kaiser (Tilt) when it first came it on AT&T and I just couldn't pass it up. Now having had it for over a year, and knowing the differences, I would have paid more if I had to. I know that I may have been reluctant to pay more at the time, but it's one of those things where, "Now looking back, I would do it all over again" (but with more money ) if that makes any sense...

I've said this before elsewhere, but here goes again...
I broke my Hermes. If I had not broken it, I would not have upgraded to the Kaiser.
Now, I have a Kaiser and I don't consider it to be vastly better than the Hermes. Perhaps it was the way I use my phone that makes this the case, or perhaps it is that the O2 ROM was the limiting factor. Either way, I don't think it would tempt me to upgrade or renew my contract, so will be onto a rolling 1-month contract until a more exciting handset (am thinking Raphael) turns up.

denco7 said:
This is kind of like going onto the Corvette Club of America forum and saying " I'm thinking of trading my Chevy Malibu for a Corvette, what do you think?" My Tilt is Great. I personally have never experience any of the quirks others have complained about. If you like the new features and upgrade possibilites better. Then do it.
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malibu vs vette is too much of a stretch and you didn't give perspective on both sides as to comparing one to the other.
to answer cyberblue's question:
I have used hermes before though never owned one. to me built in gps is a must and i chose tilt solely because of that. if i were willing to tote a bluetooth gps device, i wouldn't have bothered getting a tilt.
if you can wait a little longer, see if the new upcoming htc devices has all that you like. mind you that infra red is probably not going to be present in newer devices.

KaiserVideoDriver said:
malibu vs vette is too much of a stretch and you didn't give perspective on both sides as to comparing one to the other.
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Seriously ?

I agree with KVD, no offence, but it really isnt much like what you said.

bubbleking2 said:
I agree with KVD, no offence, but it really isnt much like what you said.
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You both totally missed my point, I was not comparing cars. What my point was, was that much like the Corvette Club of America, everyone there has one, everyone is an enthusiast or they would be part of the club and you probably will not get an unbiased opinion if that is what he was looking for?
If he was interested in unbiased reviews he should check the review sites
Again seriously?

why did S/E avoid an Accelerometer in the X1??

Was that because the phone is fat?

I thing it's because they asked HTC to build the X1 for them. HTC made them believe it's better without g-sensor.

sms2000 said:
I thing it's because they asked HTC to build the X1 for them. HTC made them believe it's better without g-sensor.
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But why? HTC own phones have g-sensor?

Euroman28 said:
But why? HTC own phones have g-sensor?
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becuz no one will buy htc phone anymore if X1 has g-sensor!!
The only advantage of htc phone now is only g-sensor

I think with the motherboards used in the HTC's and X1, there are only a certain number of ports available for add-ons such as acceleromenter. We got an optical mouse instead of the accelerometer.
They got TV-Out, we got stereo headphone jack.
I'm just speculating though.

We could have Optical Mouse and G-sensor switchable if so.
i thing it's a pure marketing decision for HTC to play this way. SonEr are in no more contacts with HTC. X2 is developed with someone else help...

sometimes they do it because of some technical limitations but if you ask me most of the times they do it on purpose for dirty political reasons.
most probably to leave some room for "improvement" of future models. why would people buy fthe x2 for $700-$800 if the x1 has everything
htc did that with tp2. they put some artificial limitations on the touch pro2 to make room tp3 next year. why else would they release it with a slow 528mhz cpu or flashless 3.2 camera and no 3.5mm jack or more
apple are even worse than htc with their ultra low resolution hvga screen, flashless 2mp camera (1 year after nokia released 5 MPexel cameras with flash ) and the many software limitations that will probably be activated in next year model
bottomline...if manufaturers think they will be able to sell a lot of devices, it makes sense to them to give it to you with as little features and hardware defecancies as possible. it makes too much scene as far as their current and future profit margins is concerned

in x1 case though. i think SE didnt include the the accelerometer because it was (x1) announced in feb08 and at the time, there was no windows phone that had or even announced that it would have accelerometer capability. the touch diamond and Omnia were the first devices to have it and both were released much later than feb 08. seems to me that it was an honest mistake or by se part

Because they want to milk us for more cash. If the x1 is perfect you will not have a reason to buy the X2.

if those pics are realy then noone is going to buy the X2 anyway
btw, i dont miss the G-sensor. had one in my n95 and disabled it cause the auto screenrotation roratet teh srcreens when i didnt want to. it was more anoying the usefull.
i'd rather have a compass so navigation turns more realtime.

Another reason could be that, at the time, there just wasn't enough WM software available to take advantge of an accelerometer. So what would be the point of adding one?

WhyBe said:
Another reason could be that, at the time, there just wasn't enough WM software available to take advantge of an accelerometer. So what would be the point of adding one?
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They could have added it and activated it later through updates.

Euroman28 said:
Was that because the phone is fat?
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Now what I am about to say...I think a lot of people on this forum will disagree on me....the removed it because it's a smart choice that accelerometer is an annoying feature and it takes hardware space.
I hate hate hate hate hate turning on the accelerometer so much! I'd rather have a button on the side of a phone to decide when to rotate the screen... all manufactures are too stupid to add a fast CPU and a switch button to prove to mankind that my idea is better than accelerometer.

poetryrocksalot said:
Now what I am about to say...I think a lot of people on this forum will disagree on me....the removed it because it's a smart choice that accelerometer is an annoying feature and it takes hardware space.
I hate hate hate hate hate turning on the accelerometer so much! I'd rather have a button on the side of a phone to decide when to rotate the screen... all manufactures are too stupid to add a fast CPU and a switch button to prove to mankind that my idea is better than accelerometer.
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This I agree!
I'd turn it off on the day one..

It is good for games, but not much else lol.

Well, I would agree with the last three posts. I've never had a phone with accelerometer, but, that's been my thinking all along...what exactly is it good for beside games? As slow as WM is, I would be scared that my phone would lock up or crash if I turned it too many times.
If they manage to put one in the next X phone and have some software that really uses it to it's fullest potential, then I'm all for it.

The Diamond and Omnia had it so that the screen can rotate when the phone is held in landscape.
The X1 has a keyboard & senses when it's opened, so doesn't need an accelerometer for anything that important.
Suggesting they left it out so that they can sell more X2s is quite funny - honestly, who's going to buy an X2 just because it has an accelerometer?
Similar to all those complaining the Pro2 doesn't have a snapdragon (which no currently available phones have) + better camera + flash + 3.5mm socket + all the form factor benefits of the pro2, all for the same price as an HD. And apparently it's all a con so we can buy the pro3 next year!

THE GRIZZ said:
sometimes they do it because of some technical limitations but if you ask me most of the times they do it on purpose for dirty political reasons.
most probably to leave some room for "improvement" of future models. why would people buy fthe x2 for $700-$800 if the x1 has everything
htc did that with tp2. they put some artificial limitations on the touch pro2 to make room tp3 next year. why else would they release it with a slow 528mhz cpu or flashless 3.2 camera and no 3.5mm jack or more
apple are even worse than htc with their ultra low resolution hvga screen, flashless 2mp camera (1 year after nokia released 5 MPexel cameras with flash ) and the many software limitations that will probably be activated in next year model
bottomline...if manufaturers think they will be able to sell a lot of devices, it makes sense to them to give it to you with as little features and hardware defecancies as possible. it makes too much scene as far as their current and future profit margins is concerned
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Click to collapse
That's what I also thought, and it makes me so mad.....if only we could purchase customized phones the way we purchase customized computers/laptops or customize them ourselves, then we would totally get exactly what we want.
DavidMc0 said:
The Diamond and Omnia had it so that the screen can rotate when the phone is held in landscape.
The X1 has a keyboard & senses when it's opened, so doesn't need an accelerometer for anything that important.
Suggesting they left it out so that they can sell more X2s is quite funny - honestly, who's going to buy an X2 just because it has an accelerometer?
Similar to all those complaining the Pro2 doesn't have a snapdragon (which no currently available phones have) + better camera + flash + 3.5mm socket + all the form factor benefits of the pro2, all for the same price as an HD. And apparently it's all a con so we can buy the pro3 next year!
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So if you were a marketing and economic advisor for your company, you'd tell the asking company that it would be a wiser choice to put everything in all at once? That's a waste. You have to understand that what you say is correct, but for an economic it is correct if in terms of services. Services typically strive to do better than other people who provide the same service, no matter what. Goods are a little bit different than service, in which as long as other companies set margins to what their device provide, then the company will also set margins as well. Now we aren't talking about eBay crap or haggling, so the end result is an expected increase in real profit.

DavidMc0 said:
Suggesting they left it out so that they can sell more X2s is quite funny - honestly, who's going to buy an X2 just because it has an accelerometer?
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You would be surprised.

doministry said:
This I agree!
I'd turn it off on the day one..
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Can't I turn it off at day zero?!
Totally agree with you, tried a phone with accelerator and didn't like it... I just see no real use of it (apart from games)