Vodafone v1615 unlocked already happy days :) - Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General

Hello there everyone,
I have had my v1615 since the 15th of october, I rang up my business team to unlock my handset. They said no problem 2-3 days, so a week passes and I ring them up this afternoon. I go through the spiel and the lady says well sir, we have the spreadsheet and your IMEI is not on it. Which either means you have given us the wrong IMEI or your phone is unlocked already, or you have an import.
She asked polity have you tried a different sim card sir? I said off course not, so we go through repeating IMEI's and I said ok, I will try with a different sim card and lo behold. IT really is UNLOCKED.
I am using it with my t mobile business tariff. I can not believe it am I just lucky or has anyone else tried it?

Mine came unlocked as well - it was one of the first things I tried! Happy days indeed

What the hell?? Mine too!
I called Vodafone a few days ago to get this thing unlocked because i plan on using it abroad and gave the lady my IMEI and everything and after the:
"What model phone is it?"
-"It's the vodafone 1615."
"Yes but what brand is it?"
-"err vodafone"
"no sir what BRAND is it?"
-"its brand is vodafone. It's the 1615. By vodafone."
"yes but what BRAAAND is it?? Is it a Palm? A Motorola? A nokia? What does it say on the box???"
"it says VODAFONE 1615! It's a vodafone! V-O-D-A-F-O-N-E!"
...discussion i told her HTC made it but its doesnt say that on the box i just know that. Then she muttered something about 12 days(?) hours(?) Something anyway, that they'll email me with the code. They havent.
Anyway just now i came across by accident on this thread and thought, what the hell cant hurt to try. So i put my Cypriot sim and it worked fine! Calls and everything. How cool is that? I like vodafone a bit better right now...

Related

[Q] Blacklisted Phone AT&T

Hi guys.
I went through a lot of web sites past couple of months and now I've decided to ask you by myself. I got a present from my GF. Sam Gal S5.
She bought it on a craiglist. She tried it with her AT&T SIM card and it worked. Anyway.. she gave it to me. SIM card denied. I've paid $30 to get a code to unlocked.. Great. Buy what was my surprise. After I got in and made a couple of phone calls to providers I find out that the phone is blacklisted. I tried to get ATT sim card also but doesnt work.
So I started to look for an advice... Ive done root, changed ROM etc. But now... i dont know where else to look.
Obviously it was stolen. But I feel sorry for her and she for me...
Is that just a piece of garbage or is there ANY way to fix it?
I dont even know if im able to ask here.
Any advice or opinions helps.
Thank you
Mike
I think you're kinda screwed...Craigslists scams happen all the time..best bet if your gonna buy a phone on there is to both meet at the AT&T store and go through the whole transfer process.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using XDA Free mobile app
So ... there is no way to make it work?
Unhived__Mind said:
I think you're kinda screwed...Craigslists scams happen all the time..best bet if your gonna buy a phone on there is to both meet at the AT&T store and go through the whole transfer process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The official reply from carriers is that once a phone is blacklisted it is impossible to undo. Whether or not it's a limitation of the technology (one-way trip) or if it's just company policy, the output is the same. You and your girlfriend have learned an expensive lesson. You can use it as a wi-fi-only device or a media player, but once a phone is blacklisted it will never be able to connect to a cellular network again.
The reason the phone worked with your girlfriend's SIM card was because the real owner of the phone hadn't called to report the phone stolen yet.
taytrlik said:
So ... there is no way to make it work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have proof of purchase and go to At&t whit it they maybe able to add to your account and unblock it.
Clicking from notecable N910A
Change Carriers
taytrlik said:
Hi guys.
I went through a lot of web sites past couple of months and now I've decided to ask you by myself. I got a present from my GF. Sam Gal S5.
She bought it on a craiglist. She tried it with her AT&T SIM card and it worked. Anyway.. she gave it to me. SIM card denied. I've paid $30 to get a code to unlocked.. Great. Buy what was my surprise. After I got in and made a couple of phone calls to providers I find out that the phone is blacklisted. I tried to get ATT sim card also but doesnt work.
So I started to look for an advice... Ive done root, changed ROM etc. But now... i dont know where else to look.
Obviously it was stolen. But I feel sorry for her and she for me...
Is that just a piece of garbage or is there ANY way to fix it?
I dont even know if im able to ask here.
Any advice or opinions helps.
Thank you
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mike, your situation stinks so bad. I was in a similar spot with a T-Mobile HTC M8, which stopped working after I got it off craigslist and then subsequent IMEI checks shows that it is blocked/blacklisted from T-Mobile's network due to a balance owing from the original purchaser. However, since the phone was not reported stolen, the IMEI is not actually blacklisted/blocked from all carriers, but only T-Mobile. So I bought the SIM unlock code for a few bucks online so that I could unlock the phone for other carrier use. I have tested and verified that my phone works on AT&T, even though it is blocked on T-Mobile. So...you might consider changing your carrier or selling it to someone who can use it on another carrier (with full disclosure to that buyer, of course).

Mi 5 killing SIM Cards from Deutsche Telekom?

Hey guys, i have an issue with my mi5 (been running cyanogenmod/resurrection remix 6.0 versions) on it with dual sim Vodafone DE and T-mobile DE. after a few days my T-mobile Sim card died and i have to replace it.
I have been getting this issue with my old LG G2 running custom os (mostly blissrom either 5.1 or 6.0) as well, e.g. the T-Mobile Sim card getting killed after a day or two in the phone, which i than had to replace ( while in my htc one m9 running modified stock, this doesnt happen and the current card that died in the mi5 lasted over half a year in it without any issues).
Now i have found several posts on the internet describing exactly this, but for oneplus one/two, where its said that T-mobile DE had fixed this with the latest revision of the sim cards (C/W7), which i have as well and died.
a link to reddit about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oneplus/comments/44qxyx/oneplus_devices_killing_sim_cards/
Apparently its an issue with MEC, where the card gets burned by the phone. Naturally at first i thought my aging g2 would be the culprit, but apparently its the SIM cards from T-mobile.
Now i was wondering, did anyone see this behavior as well (with t-mobile de simcards)?
Hello from Germany here.
Had exactly the same problem. What seems to help is a nfc sim card (v/t 7). You can call the support or go to a shop and get a new card.
Hmmm, interesting.....
My employer just changed from KPN (Dutch provider) to T-mobile.
Running it for 1 day now, and until now no problem.
But i could see that the sim looked different to the KPN sim and also different then my private Vodafone sim.
My employer will hope that this won't happen, because we have a lot of persons with dual-sim phones
Well, it occurs after about 6 weeks so the odds aren't that good.
curiously enough it occurred for me after 5 or 6 days. Before with the g2 mostly in like 1 day. I will go there today and ask them for the nfc sim. do i have to say something specific or just ask for it? Should i say i have a specific phone (op 2 perhaps) ?
Evil_Kreis said:
Hello from Germany here.
Had exactly the same problem. What seems to help is a nfc sim card (v/t 7). You can call the support or go to a shop and get a new card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so i was at the telekom shop today... one of the most frustrating conversations ever. They wouldnt give me a new sim card, cuz mine died and they couldnt send me a verification sms code to it... unbelievable, they called than the central so that they will send me one per mail... tried to explain them what th eproblem is, but it was like they never heard of the nfc-sim card or the different versions (e.g. c/w7 or v/t7), said it would be my luck if i would get a v/t7 version, cuz they cant know which one they send... i even showed them the thread on their forums... oh well lets get the new one burn it again and this time call myself telekom from home, try to get a more technically versed person at the other end...
The NFC Card is needed to pay with My wallet and things like that. Actually they should know about that. There is a thread where you can ask for a new one but now the problem is you already ordered one so they can't do anything before it arrives. If you want the link write a PM. I know it's really a pain in the *** and for me it was even worse because it was a company card.

my G4 was reported stolen been using it for more then a year

bought this phone on april of 2016 off craiglist it was unlocked. brother sent it to me to mexico used telcel and then movistar..
and on this past 19th my phone didnt want to make calls only emergency.. i live a place where theres alot of killings as they fight for control of the towns. drug lords are in a battle since feb.. so i heard that when the marines or military are in cities or towns they cut all cell phone comunications. not sure if its true.. so i tought it was that as theres been alot of military on the town and 3 helicopters.. so next day samething but my moms phone was working fine... so i asked my niece for a telcel sim card. i inserted the sim and i got service and called my moms phone.. so i assumed i had a bad sim. but then i tried other movistar sim my mothers and samething happened no service. but not on telcel.. so i tought movistar blocked me. my mom lost her phone a cheap phone and i reported from my phone for stolen.. but its was confusing.. so a might have enter mine.. day after it was locked.. partially as i could use telcel..
so i call movistar and they said that my sim card was inactive cause it was reported lost . i gave my info and customer service activated my sim card again... supposely never tried it in another phone.. then i waited but no service i only get emergency calll only.. so i used telcel for 2 days and then samething it now tells me emergency calls only on telcel too.... called tmobile and they said that the imei was not on their records....tmobile website that checks imeis status and i tried it and it says that it was reported stolen.. after more then a year.??
was it really reported stolen..?? or did movistar locked it.? can they read imei with sim card inserted.? cause ive never gave them my imei.. ??
am very pissed stress anxiuos.. and hurt.:crying::crying:. i hate people that take advantage of others. they deserve to die.. yes die.. we donst need those people... sorry am very frrustrated.. and mad.. i dont like beign lied to.
i happen to have anxiety attacks.. so i gather this money with alot of sacrifice... i cant hold a job besides jobs in mexico are a joke..
I bought a G4 on craigslist and it turned out being blocked. It was blocked because there was an unpaid balance with Tmobile. I bought it very cheap for at the time I got it so i was a little suspicious to begin with but I got it so cheap it was not worth my time and gas money to return it to the guy I bought it from. I got his name and had his phone number and picture i took of him with the phone when i got him to write me a receipt. He gave me some story about he let his room mate put it in his name and and the room mate didn't make the payments and so on. He was willing to give me my money back but i just decided to keep it and use it as a Wifi phone.
I called Tmobile and they couldn't really tell me anything because the account was in someone else's name and they also did not seem to care about getting the phone back and told me they would be glad to sign me up for service and sell me a new phone.
I had planned to use it on Ting and it was blocked...not locked. From what I understand the phone sends out a code ever time it logs onto the network. I am not sure if it is just imei number but there is some unique identifier for every phone. And once the blocked process is done the phone can not connect to the network. I found out companies in the US share these blacklist numbers now and if you are on it there is not much you can do besides changing out the chipset for one with a clean imei. I did not know they were now sharing these numbers with Mexico but it makes sense as i read that a lot of stolen phones go either there or to Europe where the info was not yet being shared.
I really enjoy my G4, even though it is just for wifi use, I use it with google voice. I really hate i can't connect it to a mobile network though, so much in fact that I am considering buying another G4 off ebay or somewhere (an unlocked, unblocked one). If the G4 was waterproof and had a fingerprint reader I would have already bought one. Oh and another thing that is holding me back now is the locked bootloaders. I have been reading and trying to figure out which ones can be unlocked and rooted now. From what i can gather is that 811 and 815 models can still be rooted...and 811s only if they are not updated to a certain point.
Now I am debating Moto G's and a few other phones that are unlocked and will work on all US carriers. I still feel the G4 is a nicer phone for the money than a lot of them, even with all the issues there have been with the G4s. Sorry to hear about your phone, not sure if you have google voice in Mexico but if so you might want to check it out. There may also be some other apps that let you use it as a wifi phone as well.
fuzzy_ said:
I bought a G4 on craigslist and it turned out being blocked. It was blocked because there was an unpaid balance with Tmobile. I bought it very cheap for at the time I got it so i was a little suspicious to begin with but I got it so cheap it was not worth my time and gas money to return it to the guy I bought it from. I got his name and had his phone number and picture i took of him with the phone when i got him to write me a receipt. He gave me some story about he let his room mate put it in his name and and the room mate didn't make the payments and so on. He was willing to give me my money back but i just decided to keep it and use it as a Wifi phone.
I called Tmobile and they couldn't really tell me anything because the account was in someone else's name and they also did not seem to care about getting the phone back and told me they would be glad to sign me up for service and sell me a new phone.
I had planned to use it on Ting and it was blocked...not locked. From what I understand the phone sends out a code ever time it logs onto the network. I am not sure if it is just imei number but there is some unique identifier for every phone. And once the blocked process is done the phone can not connect to the network. I found out companies in the US share these blacklist numbers now and if you are on it there is not much you can do besides changing out the chipset for one with a clean imei. I did not know they were now sharing these numbers with Mexico but it makes sense as i read that a lot of stolen phones go either there or to Europe where the info was not yet being shared.
I really enjoy my G4, even though it is just for wifi use, I use it with google voice. I really hate i can't connect it to a mobile network though, so much in fact that I am considering buying another G4 off ebay or somewhere (an unlocked, unblocked one). If the G4 was waterproof and had a fingerprint reader I would have already bought one. Oh and another thing that is holding me back now is the locked bootloaders. I have been reading and trying to figure out which ones can be unlocked and rooted now. From what i can gather is that 811 and 815 models can still be rooted...and 811s only if they are not updated to a certain point.
Now I am debating Moto G's and a few other phones that are unlocked and will work on all US carriers. I still feel the G4 is a nicer phone for the money than a lot of them, even with all the issues there have been with the G4s. Sorry to hear about your phone, not sure if you have google voice in Mexico but if so you might want to check it out. There may also be some other apps that let you use it as a wifi phone as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
h811 can be unlcoked but only in MM from version 20i upwards upto latest 20v.
I had planned to use it on Ting and it was blocked...not locked. whats the difference.?
well i have called tmobile and i have heard this morning that its is not blocked from their side.. but last night anotherone said it was.. i had this phone for more then a year.. i hope maybe it isnt blocked by tmobile but from movistar .. as i accidentally placed my sim card number its so confusing.. talked to movistar but they want me to show proof of purchase.. wich i dont have.. at the time i got mine they were around 450$ am really depressed..
Blocked is blacklisted, once it goes on it doesn't come off the blacklist unless the original account owner pays off what is owed, at least in the case of my phone it is like that. Tmobile has an IMEI online checker https://es.t-mobile.com/verifyIMEI.aspx when i enter mine i get a message:
Your device is locked and will not work on the T-Mobile network. If you think this is a mistake, call Customer Service.
Another IMEI checker I use says that: The device has been BLOCKED by T-Mobile carrier.
I guess if i were you and the person at Tmobile told me it wasn't blocked by them, I would have said send me a sim card. And then got their name.
I have read about a lot of people getting scammed with the G4, person finances the phone, sells the phone then files an insurance claim. The person that buys the phone can use it for a while, sometimes months, not sure about years. The process finally catches up, the phone gets blacklisted and the person that bought it second hand and thought things were fine is left with a phone that can't be put on a network. I don't know if that is what happened with your phone or not, just saying it could be. I would check several imei checker websites if I were in your position.
I have other phones but none as nice as my G4, I like the phone and would really like to have it as my main carry phone but now I have seen them for 139 USD new on ebay, a good used one under 100. I may go for one or I may try to get something that is unlocked and works on all US carriers.
I hope you get things worked out with yours. I never even got mine hooked up with a carrier but I have enjoyed rooting it and using it as a wifi home phone and using the IR blaster. I have got moneys worth out of it just doing things like that. I now run Lineage on it and have Hangouts, Google assistant, Atmos and Nova launcher among other things so I am happy. I am pretty sure i don't want one that is not rooted though.
Edit: Locked means it can only be used on a certain network. If a phone is network locked say it is a Tmobile phone, it can only be used on Tmobile.
fuzzy_ said:
Blocked is blacklisted, once it goes on it doesn't come off the blacklist unless the original account owner pays off what is owed, at least in the case of my phone it is like that. Tmobile has an IMEI online checker https://es.t-mobile.com/verifyIMEI.aspx when i enter mine i get a message:
Your device is locked and will not work on the T-Mobile network. If you think this is a mistake, call Customer Service.
Another IMEI checker I use says that: The device has been BLOCKED by T-Mobile carrier.
I guess if i were you and the person at Tmobile told me it wasn't blocked by them, I would have said send me a sim card. And then got their name.
I have read about a lot of people getting scammed with the G4, person finances the phone, sells the phone then files an insurance claim. The person that buys the phone can use it for a while, sometimes months, not sure about years. The process finally catches up, the phone gets blacklisted and the person that bought it second hand and thought things were fine is left with a phone that can't be put on a network. I don't know if that is what happened with your phone or not, just saying it could be. I would check several imei checker websites if I were in your position.
I have other phones but none as nice as my G4, I like the phone and would really like to have it as my main carry phone but now I have seen them for 139 USD new on ebay, a good used one under 100. I may go for one or I may try to get something that is unlocked and works on all US carriers.
I hope you get things worked out with yours. I never even got mine hooked up with a carrier but I have enjoyed rooting it and using it as a wifi home phone and using the IR blaster. I have got moneys worth out of it just doing things like that. I now run Lineage on it and have Hangouts, Google assistant, Atmos and Nova launcher among other things so I am happy. I am pretty sure i don't want one that is not rooted though.
Edit: Locked means it can only be used on a certain network. If a phone is network locked say it is a Tmobile phone, it can only be used on Tmobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i had so many things going thru my mind i didnt pay attention to ir. you right and i get it.. well thanks for your wishes...
in the morning i called and a guy told me that my phone isnt locked or blocked. that its fine theres no report of it. for beign stolen.. so not so sure i gave them another call later today and this time a nice lady talked to me and kindly check and told me samething that it isnt blocked or locked from them. no reports. that i should ask the carrier am on to unlock it..
thing is they want proof of purchase my carrier already told them that it was a used phone... they still want proof so ill see how that goes.. at lest it isnt blocked. :good:
update
took it to customer service and the block has been removed.. yay.
raptorddd said:
update
took it to customer service and the block has been removed.. yay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good:

Sim locked to an "internal account"?

So I bought a used P20 Pro on eBay, locked to EE in the UK. (I live in Ireland so I can't just jump onto the EE network with a new sim.)
I rang up EE customer service to get it unlocked, they checked the IMEI and said it was fine, not blacklisted or anything. The girl put me on hold and went to the "unlock team" and came back a few minutes later and said the phone was locked to an "internal account".
I asked her what that meant and she said she didn't know, and that the unlock team can't do anything with it.
Anyone know what this means?
I tried a 3rd party unlocker, I'm just waiting at the moment, but I'm kind of curious as to what an internal account is? My initial thought was that it was a phone belonging to a member of staff, but I don't know why that should make a difference to unlocking the sim. I assume somebody has the code somewhere..
Also, just wondering what my options are if it's un-unlockable? Contact Huawei? Send it back? Elevate it with EE?
And how does unlocking work? Is it always just a list of IMEI's and codes that people use? Or do unlockers use a brute force method? Or a decoding program?
I assume a custom ROM won't unlock it.. I do like my custom ROMS but I've been off the scene for a while as my last phone (LG H815P) had a locked bootloader.
Update:
So I got it unlocked, no problem, by some dude on Ebay for £13.99. Still curious as to why EE wouldn't do it, and what exactly an internal account is. They did also say it was only activated since September.
I'm quite happy now though, it was only £250, and the accessories don't seem to have been used at all. The charger still had the plastic on it.

Carrier Locked? Sim Locked? UICC Locked? What state is my phone in?

I bought an SM-N960U used off of letgo about a month ago now and I have been trying to get it to work for me but I am still having a few issues.
The guy I bought it from, who himself bought it used, was using it on T-Mobile and I am able to make and receive calls okay and get internet okay with Verizon. The phone was originally a Sprint phone. It continuously gave me "Activation was Unsuccessful" fullscreen messages repeatedly until I used adb to disable com.sec.omadmspr and com.sprint.ms.smf.services.
When swapping SIMS from different carriers the phone DOES NOT ask for an UNLOCK code.
When I first got the phone I tried to call Sprint and ask if the phone was Carrier locked thinking that if there was a small amount owed or something perhaps I could pay it and UN-Carrier Lock the phone... Well, that didn't go well. Since I wasn't on the account and couldn't provide the name or phone number of the old owner they wouldn't tell me if there was OR wasn't a carrier lock on the phone. Eventually I got them to take the IMEI but they still told me nothing.
So, I've been using the phone daily for about a month now, but because of it's problems (the app that won't run) I still have to carry my old phone as well. This phone is always on Roam. One time when trying to fix it I dialed the *228 PRL update number. That was a mistake. It broke my internet to the point where NO ONE was able to fix it. I went to a Verizon stone. No help. I called customer service. No help. They transferred me to Tech Support.... finally they had me swap in one of my older SIM cards and they programmed that one to work.
TLDR; The phone works with VZW voice and data, but is always on roaming, some apps refuse to work properly, under UICC Unlock the phone says it is locked to Sprint Sims and sometimes the data connection drops and it says it doesn't work because of "Data Roaming" being disabled.
What version of locked is my phone? Is it safe to start flashing it?
ref: https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...h-firmware-t3958791/post80093967#post80093967
you probably has nothing to do with your problem but it may be of some help if you contact the guy mentioned in this thread for the LG V20, it's a guy that works for sprint and you can contact him on the Sprint Users forums ..
He may be able to help you with the sim unlocking of your phone, there's nothing to lose I think!
give it a shot ... look at this thread and then register for an account on the Sprint Forums and look for the guy..
https://forum.xda-developers.com/v20/help/lg-v20-ls997-successfully-unlocked-oreo-t3835061
You need to contact the person who sold you the device and ask them for assistance. As they may need to contact Sprint to activate the device and unlock it for you.
kbrn said:
you probably has nothing to do with your problem but it may be of some help if you contact the guy mentioned in this thread for the LG V20, it's a guy that works for sprint and you can contact him on the Sprint Users forums ..
He may be able to help you with the sim unlocking of your phone, there's nothing to lose I think!
give it a shot ... look at this thread and then register for an account on the Sprint Forums and look for the guy..
https://forum.xda-developers.com/v20/help/lg-v20-ls997-successfully-unlocked-oreo-t3835061
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thanks! I looked at this link and think maybe this guy can help. I sent him a message!
Hoping for the best!
iceepyon said:
You need to contact the person who sold you the device and ask them for assistance. As they may need to contact Sprint to activate the device and unlock it for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but the guy I bought it from bought it used, so he wont have any Sprint account info, so then I'd have to try to track down the person he bought it from... and on and on and I dont know how long or fruitful the search would be... and again... I'm on the phone right now, on Verizon with a Verizon SIM. I dont think its carrier locked... but then I dont know what's going on.
towdy said:
Thanks, but the guy I bought it from bought it used, so he wont have any Sprint account info, so then I'd have to try to track down the person he bought it from... and on and on and I dont know how long or fruitful the search would be... and again... I'm on the phone right now, on Verizon with a Verizon SIM. I dont think its carrier locked... but then I dont know what's going on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't want to make it easy for people to re-purpose stolen phones. There are things a legitimate owner can do in order to make a phone ready for re-sale, and it sounds like these things didn't happen for the phone you bought. It all sounds a bit fishy, doesn't it?
gruuvin said:
They don't want to make it easy for people to re-purpose stolen phones. There are things a legitimate owner can do in order to make a phone ready for re-sale, and it sounds like these things didn't happen for the phone you bought. It all sounds a bit fishy, doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but if I thought "it sounds a bit fishy" I probably wouldn't have bought the used phone in the first place... and I certainly wouldn't have called Sprint and given them the IMEI and asked them; the people that could render my phone a useless brick, with one tiny bit of information, for help. Each smart phone I've bought in the last few years has been used because frankly to me it seems to be the best way to buy them financially. $1000 the day they come out or $200 - $300 6 - 12 months later used.
towdy said:
Thanks, but if I thought "it sounds a bit fishy" I probably wouldn't have bought the used phone in the first place... and I certainly wouldn't have called Sprint and given them the IMEI and asked them; the people that could render my phone a useless brick, with one tiny bit of information, for help. Each smart phone I've bought in the last few years has been used because frankly to me it seems to be the best way to buy them financially. $1000 the day they come out or $200 - $300 6 - 12 months later used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point is, when someone is about to buy a used phone from a stranger, make sure it is factory reset and then immediately call the carrier and confirm the IMEI is clean and that it has been carrier unlocked, else, don't buy it. Obviously it's not advice for you, since you already did it the wrong way. This is a good lesson for posterity.

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