Database Develop

Cing 8125 users: looking for input on next ROM

Howdy,
In about a week (assuming that G.W.B. can resist starting WWIII for that long), I'm going to build another ROM. This time I'd like to get some input on what to include.
A few things to keep in mind:
1) The goal is to include apps and hacks that appeal to the widest audience and are useful. If it's something that's not useful to a lot of people, then there's no reason to put it into a ROM. I can add more themes and ringers as well, but they should appeal to as broad a group as possible.
2) I won't include any commercial apps. Not even in an unregistered state. I might consider things that have been extracted from other ROMs, but I'm debating that with the voices in my head and will decide later.
3) Apps should be mature, not beta, if possible. I don't want to have to rebuild the ROM every time a new beta version of an app comes out.
4) If possible, attach registry hacks in the form of .reg files to your request. Or at least post the registry entry in you message.
5) It would we swell if someone could take the lead on tallying up the suggestions and help to prioritize. I'll shoot for building the ROM in about 10 days.
If we can keep the additions under 5 Megs total I think we'll be OK.
Here's what will be in there as of now (which is in the current custom ROMs)
-Oregami themes
-digital, cellular, and electronic ringers
-.NET Compact Framework 2
-A2DP/AVRCP
-Wireless Today screen plugin
-enable multi-select/delete contacts
-a hidden treasure map providing the precise pinpoint location of $2.33 in pennies that I previously buried when I was perhaps 7 or 8

First I want to say thinks for the bang up job you have done on putting together these roms for us.
The only things that I would like to see that I can think of would be the registery hack that makes GPRS/EDGE stay on all the time. And I would also like, if it is possible, anything that would make the phone us a WiFi connection, when present and turned on, instead of GPRS/EDGE.
I am not sure if it is possible to do that or not.

Usefull apps
Well I would like to have these applications in the next ROM
1) Smartkeys - http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=41060&highlight=smartkeys
2) Wakeapp - to easily setup OmapClock and other event-driven applications. http://www.kent7.com/holly/wakeapp/ , download EN version at http://kent7.sakura.ne.jp/holly/wakeapp/wa_arm021_e.zip
3) SMSDeliveryFix - to show SMS recipient name in a delivery report - http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=42696&highlight=sms+delivery+fix
4) WM5NewMenu - similiar to WM2003 "New" button - http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=40088&highlight=wm5newmenu
5) WM5torage - PDA acting as a memory card reader without ActiveSync - http://www.modaco.com/WM5torage-t238545.html
6) Some software for sending and receiving vCard via SMS.
Thank you for the great effort :wink:

The correct E or G icon
Caps, Num, lock indicators
ability to set OMPA and forget it.
smaller scroll bars

the three reptile themes at this site, I think everyone would like these, grey, blue, and red.
http://www.zombienexus.net/portal/GL_SubDirectory.asp?SEC=3&CatID=70
TCPMP-media player
Total Commander-file explorer/reg editor
Agile Messenger-great messaging app aol,msn,icq etc.
I think these are good apps that everyone could use.

the only thing i think would be beneficial would be adding all the reg edits that reg wiz adds to speed up our device, so we don't have to do it each time we clear storage. THAT would be awesome. i could care less about apps being included, i can install them just fine; but it's a pain in the ass every time i clear storage/flash new rom, that i have to redo all the reg tweaks.

I haven't found a way, but more emphesis on Storage Memory than Program memory would be good for me. I use alot of storage memory with Contacts, Email (even with moving my attachments to storage) and Calendar databases.
I used the much cleaner 2.17 RUU rom without the ringtones but did copy over a couple of them from the 2.17 with RT and OC. Also copied the OMAP clock and it's shortcuts.
A clean Rom without much of the extras would be good.
I also have customized my Cingular connection to use isp.cingular and [email protected] instead of the built in wap.cingular and [email protected] connection. I also turned of the proxy as it was interfeering with my AKU2 push from my Exch2K3-SP2 box.
Is there anyway to use the EXT ROM or add a slider bar like in WM2003SE?
J-Man5
p.s. thanks for the ROMs. I just got my 8125 about 2 weeks ago and have been having mucho grande fun with it.

ROM additions
How about:
- Total Commander
- ?? some sort of free registry editor (PHM RegEdit?)
- smartskey, I agree, but I think it's ini file needs to be in the same directory and it's small so this may not work
- RegWizard (the xda developer forum developed list of hacks), although actually i don't think this is necessary because it along with its framework requires over a meg, and you can just delete it once you install the desired reg hacks. . .
- Magic Button or some other similar task manager thing
I don't think more themes or ringers would be uniformly useful.
jason

Can you add something to truly shut down apps?
I've gotten in the habit of shutting down apps through the running programs tab under memory. Is there any way to make this easier such as putting a direct link in the Start menu to this page or on the Today list.
You know, summiter, you could just fix it so that the programs actually close when you hit the X.

Re: Can you add something to truly shut down apps?
sbuff said:
I've gotten in the habit of shutting down apps through the running programs tab under memory. Is there any way to make this easier such as putting a direct link in the Start menu to this page or on the Today list.
You know, summiter, you could just fix it so that the programs actually close when you hit the X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not unless he is going to rewrite the way Windows Mobile works. Thats a M$ thing. And also why apps such as vBar and Magic Button and InClose exist.
Summiter may be a ROM compiling wizard but lets not lay too many burdens at his feet to fix.
I'm just really happy push email is working.
J-Man5

Suggestions:
TCPMP with plugins http://tcpmp.corecodec.org/about
tGetFile.dll http://tillanosoft.com/ce/tgetfile.html
PocketNotepad http://tillanosoft.com/ce/pnotepad.html
PocketTweak http://tillanosoft.com/ce/ptweak.html

Adobe Reader 2.0 is huge and belongs in ROM. But is it popular enough? http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2_mobile.html#pocketPC

Continued Bluetooth Fixes
I have notice several still having Bluetooth issues with the lack of support; specifically, SSP over bluetooth. This opens up additional application possibilities not available today. I wouild like to run Bluetooth GPS with receivers such as the Holux 236 GPSlim, but the lack of SSP makes this almost impossible.
Just a thought

I'd like to see common registry hacks already applied and perhaps a txt file explaining the ones included with the new ROM. For example, the ones I listed below are from my own notes so when I re-flash I can re-apply them.
Regarding software, I'd almost prefer to see CAB files instead of pre-loaded software. Since CABs disappear once installed, we could make the choice of installing or deleting, and thus possibly save space but also gain the benefit of having them ready-to-install. You could even use different subdirectories for free vs the ones requiring a registration code to help keep the surprise / disappointment factor down (when we find out it costs money). This would also prevent a problem of competing solutions for some who prefer one plugin over another if they both serve a common function.
Along the same lines, I believe registry hacks can be applied via CAB files or maybe even .reg files (or maybe not - I'm still educating myself with all of this). You could stick with what you have for the current ROM but load it up with optional extras which could be deleted if we just didn't want them.
I think what you're doing is great and applaud your efforts!
I just started configuring my 8125 today, these are the hacks I applied so far (after stepping up to your 2.17 ROM):
Enable scrolling in IE with 4-way button
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Navigation\4-Way Nav
Change Value from 1 to 0.
____________________
Slide-out Keyboard Status Indicator
\HKCU\ControlPanel\Keybd
Create entry EnableIndicator and assign DWORD value of 1(decimal)
____________________
Increase your 8125 speed
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\FATFS\
Change "CacheSize" value from "0" to "4096".
Assign a value of 1 to EnableCache
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Filters\f sreplxfilt\
Assign a value of 4096 to ReplStoreCacheSize
____________________
Disable menu animation – removes menu animation which uses up system resources
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\GWE\Menu
Change "AniType" from "6" (default) to "0" (disabled).
____________________
Change the width of the vertical scroll bar and the height of the horizontal scroll bar so they take less room on the screen:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\GWE
Change cxVScr to (say) 9 to make vertical scrollbar narrower. Default value is 13
Change cyHScr to (say) 9 to make horizontal scrollbar narrower. Default value is 13
____________________
Enable 802.11g
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\TNETWLN1\Parms]
"dot11SupportedRateMaskG"=dword:00000008
"dot11SupportedRateMask"=dword:00000001

TCPMP
TCPMP definitely, I use this more than any other app on pocketpc devices.

I think you should also consider a paired down ROM. One without any Cingular addons that aren't required to make the device work on Cingular. Basically only the ones that set up MMS and the GPRS settings. I'd even leave out the proxy if thats possible.
But in this paired down ROM I'd still include a few extras like some extra themes and ringers.
And I'd put in the two programs I don't think anyone can live without, SmartSkey and TotalCommader.
Thats basically the setup I have now, but I'm wasting space in my extended ROM and other areas because there are things on my device that I can't remove and I'm not using.

azagahl said:
Adobe Reader 2.0 is huge and belongs in ROM. But is it popular enough? http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2_mobile.html#pocketPC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is Adobe reader prefered over the ClearviewPDF Reader that is already in the ROM?

Re: Continued Bluetooth Fixes
jlsenter said:
I have notice several still having Bluetooth issues with the lack of support; specifically, SSP over bluetooth. This opens up additional application possibilities not available today. I wouild like to run Bluetooth GPS with receivers such as the Holux 236 GPSlim, but the lack of SSP makes this almost impossible.
Just a thought
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not familarwith SSP. Is it a profile? What does it enhance/enable?
Do you know if there are any WM5 devices which have it? (perhaps it can be ripped out and added to the Wiz)

knight4led said:
I think you should also consider a paired down ROM. One without any Cingular addons that aren't required to make the device work on Cingular. Basically only the ones that set up MMS and the GPRS settings. I'd even leave out the proxy if thats possible.
But in this paired down ROM I'd still include a few extras like some extra themes and ringers.
And I'd put in the two programs I don't think anyone can live without, SmartSkey and TotalCommader.
Thats basically the setup I have now, but I'm wasting space in my extended ROM and other areas because there are things on my device that I can't remove and I'm not using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha this is at least the second message that goes something like: "how about a ROM stripped of everything, but add this and that and oh yeah add this too". I say this in good fun so don't take offense. It just indicates that everyone has quite unique needs.
I will create a barebones ROM as well. But I don't want to have too many ROMs out there because I don't want to have to rebuild them all when something changes.
As far as using the Extended ROM for other purposes..as of now it can't be done. It's locked in some way that prevents effectively using as storage space. (if you try to manipulate it, it becomes corrupted). So the only use for it is to install stuff at first boot.

Well I might as well put in my two cents....but first....Summiter....marry me! I'll tell my wife to divorce me and she can take her nokia phone with her!
-Ok definitely Smartskey in the same folder as Omapclock so smartskey.ini file can tell omapclock to clock me at 216 everytime after soft reset.
-Please take out the stupid SIP keyboard...i'ts useless and can only be used by leprechauns with little fingers.
-A way to easily change splash screens.
-Hide SIM contacts
HKCU\ControlPanel\Phone
new DWORD value named "ShowSim" and set it to 0
1. Disable menu animations to increase performance:
"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \SYSTEM\GWE\Menu"
Change "AniType" from "6" (default) to "0" (disabled).
- Add vibration instead of sound to keypresses in the phonepad for better tactile feedback:
for i = 0 to 9
Give an example for "i" Button:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\ControlPanel\Sounds\Dtmf "i"]
1. Rename Standart DWORD parameter "Sound" to "Sound1"
2. Create new String Parameter "Sound"
3. Assign value *vibrate* to this new parameter.
For this there is also a cab file available.
***this is a cool registry tweak
- oh and this is a must have, all these pda phones lack in the phone department...people on the other side of a phone call can barely hear us until you put this registry tweak in.
\\\registry\HKLM\Software\HTC\AUDIOGAIN(x)\
changed RECEIVE_UPLINK_VOLUME and EARPHONE_UPLINK_VOLUME values to CC. after that change, microphone sensitivity got better and didn't receive any more complaints.
Though i wish someone knew a way to improve the sound mic quality during speakerphone.
And there are so many ringtones in your rom summiter...they all sound alike lol. put the You've got mail.wav file for incoming mail, i have it if you want. how bout some funny ringtones or music ringtones instead?
k that's all

Do you prefer a clean version of WM6 or with extra applications?

Do you prefer a clean version of WM6 or with extra applications?
And which applications do you like?

C_shekar - I think you need some investigation which kind of soft user needs.
So let us post our vision of required soft preinstalled in ROM.
as far as I understand we taking about freeware.
My List:
1. Touch flo (if there are any possibility)
2. Dict
3. Alreader light 2\Hali reader
4. Total Commander Mobile
5. TCMP
6. Pdf - viewer
7. WM5-storage
8. Some sort of timer.
9. ICQ application (qip for example)
10. Gsplayer
11. Rar mobile

1. No RAM disk
2. 24MB Pagepool
3. TouchFlo

I think the ROM should stay clean, so the user can decide what apps he wants to add.
I think one can only add the HTC home tab thingie!
Cheers

divocak
no ram disk ??
man are you mad ?
for what reason you need all amount of RAM ?
Are you know that without ram-disk device SLOW DOWN ??
But I`ve agree to save some extra mem by lowering page poll. (I think 16 mb will be ok )

No, just leave the pagepool at 32 as I think it's neccessary to keep the Rom goes fast. No more software should be added I hope 'cause users can add them in later on. Just all the important fixes and patches. And that's all. Anyone want to personalize the ROM can do that by creating an extendedRom in their SD, is it, so just try to keep the version pure (one of the best exapmle is buzz 3.33). But, the ROMs that personalized before by certain developers are appreciated as well.

obaz said:
divocak
Are you know that without ram-disk device SLOW DOWN ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh i dont know that - i think that ram-disk is only for storage. thanx for info.

I agree. The upgrade rom should be a clean one so a person can choose exactly what software they require and will use. We must also remember that we all use our PPC for different reasons so there will never be a rom with software we all want or need.

Clean and Clear
Hello!!! Yes I think the WM6 should be clean version, if someone wants to install apps they can do so. The reason to keep the clean version is to make the device run faster.
Although there should be a clean version but also there should be a choice of software (seprately given). If need be people can install them on their Device.
Kind Regards
Jay

removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty

some softwares are necessary...
because not all of Himalaya users are goood at play the phone,they need it quick and all-in-one.
may be we can cook 2 ROMs,one clean version of WM6 and one with extra applications

Rudegar said:
removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But not installing extra software will give choice to people what to install and what not to install. Dont you think it would be a good idea to leave it to people regardless of space or memory issues?
Kind Regards
Jay

very very clean please
What I personally use from 2003 and 2005 ROMs is:
phone
contacts
notes
tasks
calender
SMS
activesync
camera
windows media
bluetooth for mono headset, gps receiver, audio over car radio (behaves like mono headset and mutes for phone or navigation)
connection manager
picture viewer
sometimes Word, wouldn't miss it
Never used:
games
download agent
file explorer
gprs on/off
internet explorer
internet sharing
modem link
search
Powerpoint
WM5torage
email
Very unwelcome: certificates
I do use all settings from the tabs Personal and System, from the connections settings I only use Bluetooth
But -although a contradiction to my wish for a very clean ROM- I do believe that not only I, but most of us do like some features like smartdial, TouchFlo, PDF, VERY LOUD ringtones and repeating alerts for notifications, missed calls, missed txt messages and so on. And localisation would be very welcome too.
Theoretically it would be best if either during the flash operation or at first boot after flashing it would be possible to make your own selections using some kind of wizard/script that would be intelligent enough to warn for example that the help files will no longer be available if you remove IE, that probably SMS will no longer be available if email program is not installed (I guess).

Maggy said:
What I personally use from 2003 and 2005 ROMs is:
phone
contacts
notes
tasks
calender
SMS
activesync
camera
windows media
bluetooth for mono headset, gps receiver, audio over car radio (behaves like mono headset and mutes for phone or navigation)
connection manager
picture viewer
sometimes Word, wouldn't miss it
Never used:
games
download agent
file explorer
gprs on/off
internet explorer
internet sharing
modem link
search
Powerpoint
WM5torage
email
Very unwelcome: certificates
I do use all settings from the tabs Personal and System, from the connections settings I only use Bluetooth
But -although a contradiction to my wish for a very clean ROM- I do believe that not only I, but most of us do like some features like smartdial, TouchFlo, PDF, VERY LOUD ringtones and repeating alerts for notifications, missed calls, missed txt messages and so on. And localisation would be very welcome too.
Theoretically it would be best if either during the flash operation or at first boot after flashing it would be possible to make your own selections using some kind of wizard/script that would be intelligent enough to warn for example that the help files will no longer be available if you remove IE, that probably SMS will no longer be available if email program is not installed (I guess).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya but this is personal List of what you use, if developers starts building personal roms, it will be never ending story.
What I suggested is to build a clean rom, Hyman said the right thing. Build one with basic clean rom and the other with fully loaded and whoever wants which ever they can pick their choice.
Kind Regards
Jay

jaytheguru said:
But not installing extra software will give choice to people what to install and what not to install. Dont you think it would be a good idea to leave it to people regardless of space or memory issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I don't think so.
If one wouls want to install some software (common used, for example) he would install it in storage mem. And I could make it into rom instead.
If you don't want to use it - just don't use it
One day we would make a kitchen - and then all could make their own personal rom.
Personally, I can tell you that I'm going to release a clean and speed tweaked rom - once, and then I'm going to start releasing my personalized one.

It seems like we all get the answer now. One pure version and one with all modification that builder desires. No more discussion I guess

bearshare said:
It seems like we all get the answer now. One pure version and one with all modification that builder desires. No more discussion I guess
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes..i agree with you

jaytheguru said:
Ya but this is personal List of what you use, if developers starts building personal roms, it will be never ending story.
What I suggested is to build a clean rom, Hyman said the right thing. Build one with basic clean rom and the other with fully loaded and whoever wants which ever they can pick their choice.
Kind Regards
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wanted to give insight in how I use my Hima, it is by no means a wish list for a personalised ROM. (although volunteers are welcome to cook one for me ;-)
I hope others will give similar insight in their uses.
When I flashed to WM5 I thought I was using a clean ROM. It did come with Powerpoint and Exell, IMHO a waste of space. It didn't come with a working smartdial and it took me a full day to find a smartdial that works on one of my Hima's but not on another almost identical Hima. IMHO an awful waste of time unless you like to reinvent the wheel.
I've seen discussions in other threads about what they do/do not call a "clean" ROM. IMHO a clean ROM should offer as much basic functionality as possible. I believe Smartdial is one of these basic functions.
But every piece of software that you can find elsewhere, like Powerpoint and Exell should in my opinion be left out of the clean ROM, right?
A kitchen would be a good idea. A kitchen with a clear step by step manual that any noob can follow would be even nicer. Perhaps such kitchens were around before the ftp site closed, I'm only here regularly since a week or two.
I downloaded two files with the word kitchen in its name and unfortunately neither explained to me how to use it.

Rudegar said:
removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You r absloutly right

Rudegar said:
removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't agree with you any more

OEM packages vs. Ext ROM

I've started trying to cook my own rom for my wing and I've come to a bit of a cross roads on how to do certain things. I was wondering if I could get some other cook's opinions and advice on how they install programs while cooking a rom.
I've figured out how to change what is contained in the Extended ROM and was wondering why no seems to use it for including certain apps in their roms?
A good example would be S2U2. Alot of roms I've seen include it but why install it as a package when you could just run the cab from the extended rom?
It seems a little wasteful of space especially with a program updated as frequently as this one to have it sit resident in the rom if you overwrite it with a new version.
Is there a particular reason no one seems to change the extended rom and put it out there with the OS as an OS.nbh?

The os.nb within the nbh has to be at least 51,200kb large. If it isn't and you padded to that size with just zero's in a hex editor, then you will have lost a lot of storage space. If you place it on the os.nb, then you will not have to use your storage space to store it.

Excellent point. I think that is makes sense for most apps that don't get updated very often to install them in the main rom. But for anything thats going to be updated frequently, for me it makes more sense to be able to upgrade without losing additonal space on the device. Besides there is more than enough useful apps out there for me to pad out my base rom.

but if I have os.nb within the nbh > 51,200kb - what different after

Cooked ROM = More Memory?

I know the WM6.1 ROM footprint on my HTC is 128MB. But if I download and install a 'minimalistic' cooked ROM (without all the OEM junk), will that amount of memory be returned to the system for program use? IOW, if I find a cooked ROM that's 100MB, will that give me 28MB more RAM for program use? Or are all ROMs going to consume 128MB no matter what they do (or don't) include?

BillTheCat said:
if I find a cooked ROM that's 100MB, will that give me 28MB more RAM for program use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would give you more ROM, not RAM. That is, storage available for files and/or installed programs. The amount used by the ROM indeed depends on the software it already includes.

Ah. So the game is that the ROM footprint consumes 128MB, no matter what's in it? Is it safe to presume that WM is still using RAM for both storage and program execution?
For some reason, I remember on my HX4700 there was much dissatisfaction when WM went to v.5, because we always had the ability to move the system memory between storage space and runtime space. I guess the hardware on the Kaiser is operating differently then.
Please help me make sure I'm understanding this right.
What I need to do is to learn how to cook my own ROM based on a minimalistic starter, so I can pack in what I want to run, getting it out of RAM and off into ROM, right? IOW, I need to figure out how to move TomTom, MobileShell and other such applications that install resident to the device into ROM, freeing up the amount of storage/RAM that I have to work with. Correct?
If so, then one last question. What happens when I build in programs to ROM and then there are updates?

as of wm5 storage is rom
and application memory is ram

BillTheCat said:
Ah. So the game is that the ROM footprint consumes 128MB, no matter what's in it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The Kaiser has 256MB of Flash memory. Part of it will be used as ROM, the exact amount depending on how much software is included in there. Usually 100-150MB, and those are write-protected. The rest is available as read-write storage.
BillTheCat said:
Is it safe to presume that WM is still using RAM for both storage and program execution?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. From WM5 on (like 3 years ago), file storage isn't done in RAM anymore but in the flash memory as described above. This allowed to prevent the problem where you'd lose all your stuff if your battery went down. Now you can remove the battery indefinitely without losing anything.
RAM is therefore only used for program execution. The Kaiser will have around 50-70MB RAM free after booting depending on your start-up apps, which is WAY enough not to have to worry about it.

Rudegar said:
as of wm5 storage is rom
and application memory is ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's what I thought. So, then I'm right in that the thing to do is to maximize RAM by moving resident applications into the ROM to free up RAM, yes?

You can't do that. Read my post above for more detail, might have missed it as we posted pretty much simultaneously.

kilrah said:
The Kaiser will have around 50-70MB RAM free after booting depending on your start-up apps, which is WAY enough not to have to worry about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then if I'm reading you right, your feeling seems to suggest that investing a lot of effort in cooking my own ROM isn't necessary; that if I get a 'minimalistic' cooked ROM and install my own applications, it's effectively the same thing? IOW, a smaller footprint ROM will increase room for storage of programs and documents by eliminating some OEM stuff that's perhaps unnecessary, yes?
I guess the things that I could do without are these below:
- Getting Started (A bit late for this now!)
- Windows Live (Do you really need this?)
- Voice Speed Dial (MS Voice Command instead?)
- File Explorer & Zip (Both these are handled by Virtual Explorer)
- Windows Update (If it worked, would we be here?)
However as I don't know how big these things are, I may find that it's a lot of extra effort for not a lot of gain.
Your thoughts?

Exact. Everything you install will end in Flash memory, whether it's cooked in the ROM or installed later. The only difference is that if cooked it will be in the write-protected part and will still be there when you hard reset, unlike the apps you install later.

Here are some numbers, if you're interested.. This is going from a hard reset Tilt stock rom (Although I soft-reset before it installed AT&Ts crap so these numbers are BETTER than the typical stock AT&T Tilt) vs ROMeOS v4.1.
Code:
AT&T Stock ROM (hard reset, no AT&T customization)
Storage: 124.91 Program: 101.38
In Use : 10.17 In use : 27.20
Free : 114.74 Free : 74.20
ROMeOS 4.1
Storage: 150.59 Program: 85.32
In use : 3.90 In Use : 29.00
Free : 146.70 Free : 56.32
As for the program ram being down 20M, I think this is because the ROMeOS ROM has dynamic page pool so it adjusts itself as necessary, but I'm not sure. I've personally never had an issue with getting low on program ram. It's certainly nice having 30M more of storage space (not to mention the whole thing being snappier and the interface responds quicker, but enough advertisement for the ROM )

kilrah said:
Exact. Everything you install will end in Flash memory, whether it's cooked in the ROM or installed later. The only difference is that if cooked it will be in the write-protected part and will still be there when you hard reset, unlike the apps you install later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A completely unnecessary concern, when you have SPB backup.
I've got my head around this now. Thanks so much, you've been very helpful and I appreciate your effort.

khaytsus said:
As for the program ram being down 20M, I think this is because the ROMeOS ROM has dynamic page pool so it adjusts itself as necessary, but I'm not sure... It's certainly nice having 30M more of storage space (not to mention the whole thing being snappier and the interface responds quicker, but enough advertisement for the ROM )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I understand there is an advantage to a 'cooked' ROM. Does anyone know offhand if the HTC OEM 6.1 ROM has some of the performance 'tweaks' you suggest above, or should I just back up and experiment?
What I'm getting at is that if reflashing is only going to deliver a nominal performance benefit over the HTC ROM, it's not really worth the effort for me.

BillTheCat said:
What I'm getting at is that if reflashing is only going to deliver a nominal performance benefit over the HTC ROM, it's not really worth the effort for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no. Remember, It also adds more storage for you too! This might not be as important to you as it is to me though. The only application i prefer to be installed to my SD card is TomTom, and thats because all of the maps have to be there anyway. I use several MicroSD cards Daily ( have 3 4gb cards ) ( one for videos, one for tomtom, and one for photos/backup cabs/ect ). Being able to have enough ROM open for me to install all of my apps is important to me. Its not just a speed factor, but ive actually run out of ROM space before..... not a fun thing to hunt down whats taking up all your space. Cooked ROMS open up more space by removing all that Garbage from manufacturers ( We call it Bloatware) and makes more room for my stuff to go
Also, I dont think any OEM HTC ROMS have Kaisertweek or any other registry modifications. Granted, you could just download a registry editor and a tweek program, having the goodies already there and the junk removed makes for a faster / easier start if you flash as much as some of us do lol.
Just my opinion.

What apps would users like/not like in a ROM

Title says it all!
I popped both the new sub-forums' thread cherries

Well of the app I have installed I would definitely keep Batti, Google maps, WM6 RDP and Xperia tweak.
Me likey

i use
fring
Skype
SPB Backup
SPB Travel
Coreplayer
Igo8
Resco File Explorer
Xperia Tweak
Touchpal
and Virtual Pool mobile
that is what i install and where i will stay

I'd like
Quick menu
Total commander
.net 3.5 and .netcfg
flashlite 3.1
s2v (with permission obviously)
TF3d
WKTask
fdcsoft taskmanager (and defaults for regedit etc set up)
SKTSync

look this video with touchflow3d in action (I want this app)
http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2008/11/06/sony-ericsson-xperia-x1-touchflo-3d-demo-video/

Fidalgos said:
look this video with touchflow3d in action (I want this app)
http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2008/11/06/sony-ericsson-xperia-x1-touchflo-3d-demo-video/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we already have that, Im using it now.

Working Flash (for youtube and stuff)
A youtube app
Total commander
Coreplayer
TF3d

Latest Opera Mobile 9.5
Flash support
Total Commander
TouchFlo3D
Battery Meter or changed battery icons (e.g. FInixNOver's)
crap removed (trailers, sample albums, etc)
Google Maps, GMail 2.0 java app, Opera Mini 4.1 java app
Skype
PocketRAR

No apps what-so-ever, just a basic, base rom, that includes a folder full of cabs, with a launcher than allows you to select which cabs to install.
Flash the new rom, then manually exec the launcher, put ticks next to the apps you want, networks you want setup etc, then hit the go button and sit back while your device gets only the stuff you actually want installed.
Thats my ideal!
Nigel

veletron said:
No apps what-so-ever, just a basic, base rom, that includes a folder full of cabs, with a launcher than allows you to select which cabs to install.
Flash the new rom, then manually exec the launcher, put ticks next to the apps you want, networks you want setup etc, then hit the go button and sit back while your device gets only the stuff you actually want installed.
Thats my ideal!
Nigel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seconded! I like to choose!

just a plain basic rom with basic utilities like CE commander, network wizard, java, mms, enlarge start menu. No trial (spb-something), no beta (tf3d... I can update myself tnx ), nothing

THJahar said:
Seconded! I like to choose!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thirded

veletron said:
No apps what-so-ever, just a basic, base rom, that includes a folder full of cabs, with a launcher than allows you to select which cabs to install.
Flash the new rom, then manually exec the launcher, put ticks next to the apps you want, networks you want setup etc, then hit the go button and sit back while your device gets only the stuff you actually want installed.
Thats my ideal!
Nigel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually this is a cracking idea!

guru_fordy said:
Actually this is a cracking idea!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. No panels either. Completely basic.
*I'm still waiting for flah 9-10 support but I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.

THJahar said:
Seconded! I like to choose!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I forth....this needs to be done...
who's the top rom specialist... i need some help on a projevt.
i call it...
Operation Panelstine Freedom...
Panels running touch hd

A workin skyfire because we need a full functional webbrowser

ROTFLMAO
harvsingh said:
I forth....this needs to be done...
who's the top rom specialist... i need some help on a projevt.
i call it...
Operation Panelstine Freedom...
Panels running touch hd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROTFL! "Panelstine"! MUHAHAHA...
The idea for the basic ROM with separate CAB folder sounds great.
I'm also a big fan of Windows Side Show, if you haven't seen it yet you should definitely sheck it out. It's an app using BlueTooth to control your Vista machine, e.g. Windows Media Player, PowerPoint, Outlook, Facebook, etc. Very cool app I must say, but if the basic ROM will get cooked I can install that again myself.

As well as also liking to choose! I would also like to see Remote Sim Access for connection to certain handsfree car kits...

This notion of installing cabs after the flash is all well and good but they will take up storage space, you can't install them to the rom after the flashing procedure so they need to be built in before the flashing procedure to get them into the rom space, maybe one day there'll be a simple chooser to allow people to build their own roms but it's still a long way off..
There is a system to allow people to install their own cabbed software automatically it's called UC and developed by Sleuth255 there's a config builder for it here.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=371832
the rom needs to be built as UC compliant to do this but that's not hard.
The Rom has 512mb of space, this can't be used after a rom has been flashed, so unless you fill it with applications it's going to remain empty and be wasted. it shouldn't be used for apps that get updated regularily 'cos that's a pain to overwrite, or commercial apps 'cos that restricts what people can use.
IMHO It's better to have all the essential apps (and things like tf3d) built into the rom and save the 256mb of storage for apps that are updated frequently or commercial stuff.

Hi
I see what you mean, but given that the X1 has loads of storage, I cant see post install of apps being an issue. You would have to install every app on the planet to fill 256MB? Apps that have huge requirements (tom-tom etc) would just use the SD card?
Additionally, this would mean that those apps had an entry in 'remove programs' and thus could be easily upgraded when new ones came out - or removed if no longer required. Also, you would not need to flash a new rom just to get the latest TF3D installed.
Personally, I just don't have the time to re-flash more than once every 6 months - it takes too long to get the device back into a state where its usable again.
I think this convenience is a small price to pay for under utilising the 512MB of ROM.
Nigel