I know the WM6.1 ROM footprint on my HTC is 128MB. But if I download and install a 'minimalistic' cooked ROM (without all the OEM junk), will that amount of memory be returned to the system for program use? IOW, if I find a cooked ROM that's 100MB, will that give me 28MB more RAM for program use? Or are all ROMs going to consume 128MB no matter what they do (or don't) include?
BillTheCat said:
if I find a cooked ROM that's 100MB, will that give me 28MB more RAM for program use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would give you more ROM, not RAM. That is, storage available for files and/or installed programs. The amount used by the ROM indeed depends on the software it already includes.
Ah. So the game is that the ROM footprint consumes 128MB, no matter what's in it? Is it safe to presume that WM is still using RAM for both storage and program execution?
For some reason, I remember on my HX4700 there was much dissatisfaction when WM went to v.5, because we always had the ability to move the system memory between storage space and runtime space. I guess the hardware on the Kaiser is operating differently then.
Please help me make sure I'm understanding this right.
What I need to do is to learn how to cook my own ROM based on a minimalistic starter, so I can pack in what I want to run, getting it out of RAM and off into ROM, right? IOW, I need to figure out how to move TomTom, MobileShell and other such applications that install resident to the device into ROM, freeing up the amount of storage/RAM that I have to work with. Correct?
If so, then one last question. What happens when I build in programs to ROM and then there are updates?
as of wm5 storage is rom
and application memory is ram
BillTheCat said:
Ah. So the game is that the ROM footprint consumes 128MB, no matter what's in it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The Kaiser has 256MB of Flash memory. Part of it will be used as ROM, the exact amount depending on how much software is included in there. Usually 100-150MB, and those are write-protected. The rest is available as read-write storage.
BillTheCat said:
Is it safe to presume that WM is still using RAM for both storage and program execution?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. From WM5 on (like 3 years ago), file storage isn't done in RAM anymore but in the flash memory as described above. This allowed to prevent the problem where you'd lose all your stuff if your battery went down. Now you can remove the battery indefinitely without losing anything.
RAM is therefore only used for program execution. The Kaiser will have around 50-70MB RAM free after booting depending on your start-up apps, which is WAY enough not to have to worry about it.
Rudegar said:
as of wm5 storage is rom
and application memory is ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's what I thought. So, then I'm right in that the thing to do is to maximize RAM by moving resident applications into the ROM to free up RAM, yes?
You can't do that. Read my post above for more detail, might have missed it as we posted pretty much simultaneously.
kilrah said:
The Kaiser will have around 50-70MB RAM free after booting depending on your start-up apps, which is WAY enough not to have to worry about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then if I'm reading you right, your feeling seems to suggest that investing a lot of effort in cooking my own ROM isn't necessary; that if I get a 'minimalistic' cooked ROM and install my own applications, it's effectively the same thing? IOW, a smaller footprint ROM will increase room for storage of programs and documents by eliminating some OEM stuff that's perhaps unnecessary, yes?
I guess the things that I could do without are these below:
- Getting Started (A bit late for this now!)
- Windows Live (Do you really need this?)
- Voice Speed Dial (MS Voice Command instead?)
- File Explorer & Zip (Both these are handled by Virtual Explorer)
- Windows Update (If it worked, would we be here?)
However as I don't know how big these things are, I may find that it's a lot of extra effort for not a lot of gain.
Your thoughts?
Exact. Everything you install will end in Flash memory, whether it's cooked in the ROM or installed later. The only difference is that if cooked it will be in the write-protected part and will still be there when you hard reset, unlike the apps you install later.
Here are some numbers, if you're interested.. This is going from a hard reset Tilt stock rom (Although I soft-reset before it installed AT&Ts crap so these numbers are BETTER than the typical stock AT&T Tilt) vs ROMeOS v4.1.
Code:
AT&T Stock ROM (hard reset, no AT&T customization)
Storage: 124.91 Program: 101.38
In Use : 10.17 In use : 27.20
Free : 114.74 Free : 74.20
ROMeOS 4.1
Storage: 150.59 Program: 85.32
In use : 3.90 In Use : 29.00
Free : 146.70 Free : 56.32
As for the program ram being down 20M, I think this is because the ROMeOS ROM has dynamic page pool so it adjusts itself as necessary, but I'm not sure. I've personally never had an issue with getting low on program ram. It's certainly nice having 30M more of storage space (not to mention the whole thing being snappier and the interface responds quicker, but enough advertisement for the ROM )
kilrah said:
Exact. Everything you install will end in Flash memory, whether it's cooked in the ROM or installed later. The only difference is that if cooked it will be in the write-protected part and will still be there when you hard reset, unlike the apps you install later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A completely unnecessary concern, when you have SPB backup.
I've got my head around this now. Thanks so much, you've been very helpful and I appreciate your effort.
khaytsus said:
As for the program ram being down 20M, I think this is because the ROMeOS ROM has dynamic page pool so it adjusts itself as necessary, but I'm not sure... It's certainly nice having 30M more of storage space (not to mention the whole thing being snappier and the interface responds quicker, but enough advertisement for the ROM )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I understand there is an advantage to a 'cooked' ROM. Does anyone know offhand if the HTC OEM 6.1 ROM has some of the performance 'tweaks' you suggest above, or should I just back up and experiment?
What I'm getting at is that if reflashing is only going to deliver a nominal performance benefit over the HTC ROM, it's not really worth the effort for me.
BillTheCat said:
What I'm getting at is that if reflashing is only going to deliver a nominal performance benefit over the HTC ROM, it's not really worth the effort for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no. Remember, It also adds more storage for you too! This might not be as important to you as it is to me though. The only application i prefer to be installed to my SD card is TomTom, and thats because all of the maps have to be there anyway. I use several MicroSD cards Daily ( have 3 4gb cards ) ( one for videos, one for tomtom, and one for photos/backup cabs/ect ). Being able to have enough ROM open for me to install all of my apps is important to me. Its not just a speed factor, but ive actually run out of ROM space before..... not a fun thing to hunt down whats taking up all your space. Cooked ROMS open up more space by removing all that Garbage from manufacturers ( We call it Bloatware) and makes more room for my stuff to go
Also, I dont think any OEM HTC ROMS have Kaisertweek or any other registry modifications. Granted, you could just download a registry editor and a tweek program, having the goodies already there and the junk removed makes for a faster / easier start if you flash as much as some of us do lol.
Just my opinion.
Related
I installed the Rom last night.
Here is the (short) list of program I have installed:
E-TEN Dialer (with Vista Theme)
Inesoft Cash Organizer '05 Premium (with MS Money Sync)
WisBar Advance
Cyberon Voice Commander 1.6
I have set-up my Cingular Data Connection (wap.cingular APN)
I have paired my Jabra BT500 Headset
I have synced my personal Laptop and Work PC via USB Cable.
So far the only Issue I have to report is with setting the Buttons.
When I select an option in the dropdown list, it doesn't match what is assigned (if I select <None> it show <OK/Close> as the assignment). This seems to be the case for everything above "<Today>" in the list. I wonder if it has something to do with the .RegEdit Entry at the top of the list?
P; When I select an option in the dropdown list, it doesn't match what is assigned (if I select <None> it show <OK/Close> as the assignment). This seems to be the case for everything above "<Today>" in the list. I wonder if it has something to do with the .RegEdit Entry at the top of the list
S; remove the regedit entry from phm traylaunch in the accesories folder. and it will be fixed.or
remove the period from the LinkName (in "\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\System" folder)
..................................................................................................................................................................................................
about task manager issue;
this is the way it works.i spoke to the develepor,and he said that people requested to work that way.this is not a fault in the rom.
......................................................................................................................................................................
tahoma.ttf is in the rom,futher more cleartype is enabled by default in the rom.
............................................................................................................................................
the runonce file is a bit temperemental.you have to click several times to run some times.
the runonce file will only run once per hard reset.it was ingenered to do so
Only one problem till now - SMS Notifier doesn't work. It says:"MissingMethodException, File or assembly name 'Microsoft.WindowsMobile.Status, version 1.0.0.0, Culture neutral, Public keyToken 31BF3856AD364E35', or one of its dependencies was not found.
any idea?
faria said:
nice debuging ....i think you are correct.i will see to it.i will remove the file from the rom
dr.p [my second.. hehe] reported the same.
remove the regedit entry from phm traylaunch in the accesories folder. and it will be fixed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, all I had to do was remove the period from the LinkName (in "\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\System" folder) and everything is working fine now.
Xtriny said:
Only one problem till now - SMS Notifier doesn't work. It says:"MissingMethodException, File or assembly name 'Microsoft.WindowsMobile.Status, version 1.0.0.0, Culture neutral, Public keyToken 31BF3856AD364E35', or one of its dependencies was not found.
any idea?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i thinks is something to do with netcf 2 sp1.i cant find the cause ,it is the same as hichtiker.if noone finds a solucion it will be removed from the rom.
faria said:
yes i thinks is something to do with netcf sp1.i cant find the cause ,it is the same as hichtiker.if noone finds a solucion it will be removed from the rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not so important app, so it can be deleted from ROM, I think
I hate to say it, but this rom stalled at 99% on my G4 device. I let it stay that way for 25 minutes before I got worried and reflashed Molski's back on so I can make sure the battery didn't die. Any ideas ?
i would like to see a 8mb pagepool but also would like all thirdparty software removed so testing is accurate.
also it seems that your rom works w/o the ext rom and w/o running runonce but the windows directory is filled with too many extras.
what do you want this test to accomplish?
It works really good. 8MB p.pool is great but not removed third party apps (my opinion)
I don't mind the 3rd party apps
Since they don't waste space (removing them frees up nothing).
As for the Start Menu, I would guess that most "Power Users" either customize this anyway or use a launcher (iLauncher, WA Desktop, etc) so no big deal to me really. I just won't click on something that I don't use.
I am enjoying TCPMP and PHM Tray Launch, which are apps I've never used before.
jeffbar1 said:
i would like to see a 8mb pagepool but also would like all thirdparty software removed so testing is accurate.
also it seems that your rom works w/o the ext rom and w/o running runonce but the windows directory is filled with too many extras.
what do you want this test to accomplish?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
without the runonce installation most softwate and bluethoth etc will fail.
the point of the roms is to have the exras appa without consuming the storage.so u can still install yours.
another first to this rom is that pdf reader is runing from the extended rom!!!!! that took major work.also most apps are higly compressed.pdf reader is 7mb in original form.were mine is 2.9mb.i mean, how do you make something run from a hidden-write-protected drive?????!!
that runonce installer is ther for a reason.
i dont belive that anyone achived to turn cleartype font on automaticly either.i did.
just a few.....
the purpose is to test the rom so i can find out if is good enough to put in the public domain.
like a said before there is plenty roms up there to chose from.
i think it would be better to have as much free program memory as possible rather than worrying about storage memory.
jeffbar1 said:
i think it would be better to have as much free program memory as possible rather than worrying about storage memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
removed apps from ROM will not free much programm memory. Only running apps "eats" RAM and you can close it. Like I said, it would be great to change p.pool sizel. I used ROM with 8MB p. pool with Wisbar, iLauncher, SPB Weather, and other apps in ROM and my free RAM was about 26 MB, storage about 38 MB
ok, installed and everithing appears ok exept for 1 lil detail...some of the lnks on startup folder r in rom and cant be deleted (i try to delete them and get an error)... i mean...i hate the tray bar and cant delete as example the bt-init to delete that icon among others to remove that bar...i mean...i know that is dumb to delete programs cause they dont take space on storage, but they DO take space on today screen...other than that detail i think everithing is ok...
kyphur said:
Since they don't waste space (removing them frees up nothing).
As for the Start Menu, I would guess that most "Power Users" either customize this anyway or use a launcher (iLauncher, WA Desktop, etc) so no big deal to me really. I just won't click on something that I don't use.
I am enjoying TCPMP and PHM Tray Launch, which are apps I've never used before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how do the 3rd party apps not take up memory or program memory
Faria,
what about make your ROM twice? One with 12MB, second one with 8MB paging pool. Everyone can choose which one to use... It should be the best to decide.
PPC Memory Primer
jeffbar1 said:
how do the 3rd party apps not take up memory or program memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The types of Memory that a PPC Device Has:
ROM
Storage Memory
Program Memory
The ROM is where the OS is. There is a defined amout of space on the DOC for the ROM Image. If you Don't fill it up then that extra space is still consumed by the ROM Image and you can't use it. Think of it as a CD, if you burn only 200MB of data onto a single session CD you can't install programs onto the remaining 500MB even though you have that unused capacity.
Storage Memory is like the HardDrive on your PC. When you install programs to "Device" they are stored here. User Data which is not directed to the Sotrage Card is also stored here. The OS makes it appear as though the ROM & Storage Memory are one and the same but they are not.
Program Memory is equivelant to the RAM on your PC. This is the workspace where all of the Apps run and the OS does it's work. Having a program installed doesn't consume RAM. Running the program does.
So....
If the extra apps are embedded into the ROM then all they are doing is filling up space that you normally can't utilize. If it keeps you from having to install 2 programs onto your "device" then it will preserve Storage Memory.
Forget about my suggestion, but something have to be checked, after 2 soft resets now it let me delete the .lnk´s
Did not saw the operator config stuff (i may have missed it), but everything else is fine.
Here is a set of config settings (ppc and smartphone) for all the 3 french operators ... It may be usefull ...
After applying the bouygues one, i send a text message and had notification
kyphur said:
The types of Memory that a PPC Device Has:
ROM
Storage Memory
Program Memory
The ROM is where the OS is. There is a defined amout of space on the DOC for the ROM Image. If you Don't fill it up then that extra space is still consumed by the ROM Image and you can't use it. Think of it as a CD, if you burn only 200MB of data onto a single session CD you can't install programs onto the remaining 500MB even though you have that unused capacity.
Storage Memory is like the HardDrive on your PC. When you install programs to "Device" they are stored here. User Data which is not directed to the Sotrage Card is also stored here. The OS makes it appear as though the ROM & Storage Memory are one and the same but they are not.
Program Memory is equivelant to the RAM on your PC. This is the workspace where all of the Apps run and the OS does it's work. Having a program installed doesn't consume RAM. Running the program does.
So....
If the extra apps are embedded into the ROM then all they are doing is filling up space that you normally can't utilize. If it keeps you from having to install 2 programs onto your "device" then it will preserve Storage Memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you are saying that even though the extra apps are running they don't use the RAM they use ROM, thats hard to beleive.
Yo All!
Is there a *Clean* version of WM6.1 Pro? It is better for the users to have their own softwares to install.. Cos, its a waste of space if we don't use 'em... Well, its just an opinion.. Thank You! Especially for Syed Ather and c_shekhar..
If i had my Hima rite now...u would have had a Clean ROM with The latest build by tonight
i can cook a perfect rom in less than 25 minutes
Thank You Very Much!! I'll be waitin'!
you dnt understand...I dnt have a Hima any more ( broke it while repairing )
crazyboy12345 said:
Yo All!
Is there a *Clean* version of WM6.1 Pro? It is better for the users to have their own softwares to install.. Cos, its a waste of space if we don't use 'em... Well, its just an opinion.. Thank You! Especially for Syed Ather and c_shekhar..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May I update you here.
The ROM is of Fixed size and takes the same quantum of space on device whether loaded with applications or not. Thats why The efforts always remain to utilize every bit of spare space in ROM by packing in it the application softwares/utilities.
If you take an absolutely clean ROM and install the same applications on it separately, you land up wasting the precious storage memory. And you know very well that on Hima the storage memory is only 30MB. So packing as many utilities as possible inside the ROM is always useful.
You would be surprised to know that on my device I have embedded following utilities inside the ROM (customised for my use)
1. Phatpad
2. Smart secretary
3. neotiles (a game)
4. Handy Shoppers
5. rlToday 1.22
6. Call SMS blocker
And with more than 600 cotacts mail/sms synchronization still have abt 11MB of storage free.
I hope it can give you some idea on this issue.
Yes I agree with you master c_shekhar. but you should pack the utilities of most intrest in the ROM. It is good that you have removed many of those junky types in your new release.
I have downloaded the new version 6.1.2a16CS which is a new build 19209. And shall report you once I flash it.
Hi guys, maybe you could try another ROM from PDAVIET forum.
http://www.pdaviet.net/showthread.php?t=23970
c_shekhar said:
May I update you here.
The ROM is of Fixed size and takes the same quantum of space on device whether loaded with applications or not. Thats why The efforts always remain to utilize every bit of spare space in ROM by packing in it the application softwares/utilities.
.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay... I'm currently downloading yours... The WM6.1 6.1.2a16CS .... it looks promising!
it would be cool if we could put the contents of the ExtRom to an SD-Card and decide for ourselves what software we want on our Phones, that would be great.
You can, very easily, as with the previous rom
c_shekhar said:
May I update you here.
The ROM is of Fixed size and takes the same quantum of space on device whether loaded with applications or not. Thats why The efforts always remain to utilize every bit of spare space in ROM by packing in it the application softwares/utilities.
If you take an absolutely clean ROM and install the same applications on it separately, you land up wasting the precious storage memory. And you know very well that on Hima the storage memory is only 30MB. So packing as many utilities as possible inside the ROM is always useful.
You would be surprised to know that on my device I have embedded following utilities inside the ROM (customised for my use)
1. Phatpad
2. Smart secretary
3. neotiles (a game)
4. Handy Shoppers
5. rlToday 1.22
6. Call SMS blocker
And with more than 600 cotacts mail/sms synchronization still have abt 11MB of storage free.
I hope it can give you some idea on this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A fresh clean minimal rom would be good for messing around with Ather90's and others rom kitchens c_shekhar, mabey you could post one made with the latest build 19209
Jadel said:
You can, very easily, as with the previous rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for clearing that up
my question is if u put lots of programs into the program memory, and cook it, will the device become slow like hell?
boby1911 said:
my question is if u put lots of programs into the program memory, and cook it, will the device become slow like hell?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont mix up the things.
The ROM size is fixed. So it does not affect the program memory.
If you simultaneously keep active many programs then the free program memory get reduced. And if the free Prog memory is too less then the device becomes very very slow.
AND, The device may become slow even if you are not left with sufficient Storage memory. So availablity of both type of memory is important..
if i may add:
ROM: (Read Only Memory)
Size: 30 MB
Purpose: Keeps all installer files (Operating System, Applications) runs only after every HARD RESET.
Features: Cannot be ERASED except my FLASHING. (in step 2 at flash, it says..erasing ROM data)
RAM: (Random Access Memory)
Size: 128 MB (distributed to Program Memory, Storage memory, Ramdisk)
Program Memory needed by device to run programs (like DDR module in a computer), this is reset every time you reset your device.
Storage Memory, is used to store programs installed in device (like a harddisk in a computer), this is soft and supposedly hard reset persistent.
RamDisk, is a storage disk that is generated by converting some RAM as storage area. (much like a 2nd harddisk for installing programs), this is soft and hard reset persistent, which IMO is dependent on the state of your backup battery, mine loses data most of the time.
so total memory you have in XDA 2 is:
ROM 30MB
RAM 128MB
in wm2003 and previous ROMS, this is defined as:
ROM 30MB
RAM 128MB - 64MB program, 64MB storage, with slider provided to move memory allocation.
in wm5,6,6.1
ROM 30MB
RAM 128MB = PROGRAM+STORAGE+RAMDISK
i hope i get this right, but this is how i understand this, corrections would be welcome.
paulpax said:
if i may add:
in wm5,6,6.1
ROM 30MB
RAM 128MB = PROGRAM+STORAGE+RAMDISK
i hope i get this right, but this is how i understand this, corrections would be welcome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
STORAGE is not part of RAM. Rest of understanding is OK...
Hi, I'm new with the tilt , i just flashed with a new rom and now i only have 85.32mb for programs and 113.17mb for storage, how can i increase the memory.
In case i can't increase it i will flash the original att (if i find the rom somewhere)
Please help.
Thanks.
ricomilion said:
Hi, I'm new with the tilt , i just flashed with a new rom and now i only have 85.32mb for programs and 113.17mb for storage, how can i increase the memory.
In case i can't increase it i will flash the original att (if i find the rom somewhere)
Please help.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for starters, what rom did you flash?
i flashed RUU_Kaiser_CINGULAR_WWE_ rom 3.55.502.1 wwe radio 1.65.20.29
ricomilion said:
Hi, I'm new with the tilt , i just flashed with a new rom and now i only have 85.32mb for programs and 113.17mb for storage, how can i increase the memory.
In case i can't increase it i will flash the original att (if i find the rom somewhere)
Please help.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well alot of the new windows mobile 6.1 roms take another 15% of the program memory for overhead and system performance so typically you only have 85. Some chef's have been able to by tweaking increase that number but most are around 87-89. the only rom that i have seen that is wm6.1 base and gives you 100 program memory is hyperdragon 3 (there might be others..). Haven't tried it so don't know much on how it is. As far as storage memory goes really that is increased/decreased by number of programs you have installed. Just like your pc more program installs less storage memory ... plus more files (whether be music, video, ringtones, themes, etc) less storage memory. The best solution for extra storage memory is to get a storage card.
You can experiment flashing different roms and see which one gives you best system memory and start off storage memory. pretty much all the chefs do a great job of keeping their roms clean and compact so very little storage memory is used.
I would recommend reading around and following various rom threads that we have here to gain better understanding of each individual rom so you can flash the one that suits your taste.
thesire said:
well alot of the new windows mobile 6.1 roms take another 15% of the program memory for overhead and system performance so typically you only have 85. Some chef's have been able to by tweaking increase that number but most are around 87-89. the only rom that i have seen that is wm6.1 base and gives you 100 program memory is hyperdragon 3 (there might be others..). Haven't tried it so don't know much on how it is. As far as storage memory goes really that is increased/decreased by number of programs you have installed. Just like your pc more program installs less storage memory ... plus more files (whether be music, video, ringtones, themes, etc) less storage memory. The best solution for extra storage memory is to get a storage card.
You can experiment flashing different roms and see which one gives you best system memory and start off storage memory. pretty much all the chefs do a great job of keeping their roms clean and compact so very little storage memory is used.
I would recommend reading around and following various rom threads that we have here to gain better understanding of each individual rom so you can flash the one that suits your taste.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that means if i downgrade to WM6 i will get over 100mb, thats why i had 101mb+ with the original att rom.
Thanks for your info.
This forum Rock.
Generally speaking, you would have to get a phone with more memory in order to increase the amount of memory.
Dude, unless you are running out of memory, i.e. device programs are initiating "Low Memory Warning", don't worry about it. After all of my proggies, many, many, I have about 89mb Storage & 39mb Program. Never have run out & I am a very heavy user with many resource heavy apps..
The OS automatically adjusts between what is available overall , including what is in both Program & storage memory as more memory is required in one or the other. So when you install more it adjust both storage & program memory accordingly. This is not like older devices where you have a storage area & a program area that are seperate. The memory for both is the same.
The amount you have is not bad at all.
There are also several things that affect memory. Installed programs, What was cooked into the rom, the Page Pool, etc.
At any rate, this thread has very little, if anything to do with ROM development, so I'm moving it to General Section.
I agree with GSLEON. I too have tons of apps installed to the device and its never really sluggish.
Also I hear Ginko Baloba is Good for memory.
thesire said:
... Some chef's have been able to by tweaking increase that number but most are around 87-89. the only rom that i have seen that is wm6.1 base and gives you 100 program memory is hyperdragon 3 (there might be others..). Haven't tried it so don't know much on how it is. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true - e.g. HyperDragon III Lite has 101 MB of Program memory available. See my screenshots. Attached.
gabriel31337 said:
It's true - e.g. HyperDragon III Lite has 101 MB of Program memory available. See my screenshots. Attached.[/QUOTE
udK 8.0 V2 Vega 6.1 Rom also have 101.32 MB Program memory available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I recall correctly the max amount of memory is also related to the page pool (PP) size.
By default the kaiser has 113MB maximum memory, and with the default 12MB PP that leaves 101MB (113-12) for programs.
If you were to increase the PP to say, 32MB, then the memory left for programs would be 81MB (113-32).
I'm looking for this ROM, anybody have it yet ?
gabriel31337 said:
It's true - e.g. HyperDragon III Lite has 101 MB of Program memory available. See my screenshots. Attached.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys,
I just switched from a Polaris to my Kaiser a few days ago, because of the keyboard.
I love my Kaiser, but there is one thing I'm wondering about.
Why is there so few RAM in the Kaiser?
On my Polaris I had 60+ MB free (with an 8MB Touchcube loaded), up to 68.
On the Kaiser I have max. 43-45 free with nothing (I know of) running in the background....
How is that?
Stefan
edit: It's the same situation on different ROMs I tested and it was the same situation on different Polaris ROMs, too. They were all fully loaded, no light ROMs etc.
I think most ROM chefs have gone to either "larger" page pools, or dynamic page pools. And depending on the page pool size, you will see less available RAM.
Would you like to "SEE" a lot of free ram but run yr machine slow because of no caching/paging? Or you want to "FEEL" a lot smoother user experience because we spend some ram for cache/pagepool?
With 128mb Qvga machine like Kaiser, I don't even dare to look at the memory meter since I NEVER run into not enough ram issue even I abuse it w/ lots of concurrent apps (Iguidance 4 + TomTom 7 + A2DP w/ Coreplayer + lots of todays plugins).
I rather concern about too many unnecessary background service/process since WM has a physical limit of 32 processes
45MB free is nothing to worry about, I've never really managed to use more than 20MB with more than 10 apps running.
And devices like the Hermes were doing fine with less than 20MB free after a clean boot.
very nice way expressing/explaining
so thats call for button X application (plug in)
jackleung said:
Would you like to "SEE" a lot of free ram but run yr machine slow because of no caching/paging? Or you want to "FEEL" a lot smoother user experience because we spend some ram for cache/pagepool?
With 128mb Qvga machine like Kaiser, I don't even dare to look at the memory meter since I NEVER run into not enough ram issue even I abuse it w/ lots of concurrent apps (Iguidance 4 + TomTom 7 + A2DP w/ Coreplayer + lots of todays plugins).
I rather concern about too many unnecessary background service/process since WM has a physical limit of 32 processes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ROMs I used on the Polaris had a 18MB PP...
Laurentius' V10 also has 18MB...
And I also can't seem to fill the RAM, but I'm a little confused...
I also go pretty high on my page pools (24 mb). However, you can request a ROM of your liking with the page pool you want (look at my sig) .
kareem9nba said:
I also go pretty high on my page pools (24 mb). However, you can request a ROM of your liking with the page pool you want (look at my sig) .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx, but as I said, I'm alright with my RAM.
I'm only curious why a ROM which is (supposed to be) very similar to a Polaris one according to the settings (where the Polaris ROM actually had the TouchCube with 8MB loaded) has 15-20MB less RAM available... what the hell is running in the background on the Kaiser that takes that much memory?
Oh, and btw, all the screenshots for the Kaiser I saw (even from light ROMs), don't have much more than 50MB free, so how can a light Polaris ROM have 70MB free??!!
Stefan
P.S: I don't mean to annoy anyone, but I just can't help it...
I wanna know what takes my RAM away...
Sayuuk said:
Oh, and btw, all the screenshots for the Kaiser I saw (even from light ROMs), don't have much more than 50MB free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There, just for you. 47.3MB with no programs running but no reboot for more than one week, and 63.1MB after reboot. The screenshot program is taking 1MB in both cases, and I have a couple of small programs starting automatically on boot.
Any chance you'd be using WM6 on one and WM6.1 on the other?
Sayuuk said:
what the hell is running in the background on the Kaiser that takes that much memory?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you use Memmaid and take a look?
jackleung said:
Why don't you use Memmaid and take a look?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't find anything, that's why I'm asking ;-)
@kilrah: interesting, I never saw that much free RAM on a Kaiser.
However, on my Polaris I had a ROM (as previously mentioned) that was fully loaded, all the stuff I have on my Kaiser + the Cube and I still had about 20MB more free RAM than I have on my Kaiser without a Cube...
The only Hardware-based difference on the Kaiser is the keyboard... but that can't have anything to di with it, can it?
Stefan
I was also always curious as to why, if they can make 32gb micro sd cards, can't they simply put that much memory into the Kaiser to begin with?
Two Things
A) They don't have 32Gb MicroSD cards yet.
B) Lets say they Did. Leaving the Card Slot Blank costs nothing. Filling it with a Card costs money. Larger Profit Margin for HTC. They win.
And some more:
D) Most people don't give a damn about having 16/32GB in their phone, and would certainly be pissed off if they had to pay more for something they didn't need. Those will just buy a 1GB card and be fine with it.
E) That would open the door to iphone-like ripoff, with $100-200 difference between the 8GB and 16GB models... when we know that a 8GB memory card costs around $20 nowadays, so much more like $5 to add it inside the phone for the manufacturer. But as we all know, internal memory always costs more than cards....
F) Bit unrelated, but in my country electronic devices are subject to a copyright-style tax based on the amount of internal memory. But memory cards aren't taxed. Choose the best option
And backup sizes increase too!
After watching my free device memory decline and backup sizes go up every day, I found that PIE (Pocket Internet Explorer) and Opera were taking a more than decent amount of memory for their caches.
Clearing PIE and Opera's cache freed over 30M of device memory for me!
While Opera gives a setting for cache size, PIE has only a registry setting:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\5.0\Cache\Content\CacheLimit
It's set to 42680 in my Tilt. While I can change the registry value, the change won't survive a soft reset.
My solution is to regularly clear the browser caches and check the device for temp files. It's made a huge difference for me (from 11M free to 61M free)
gavink said:
After watching my free device memory decline and backup sizes go up every day, I found that PIE (Pocket Internet Explorer) and Opera were taking a more than decent amount of memory for their caches.
Clearing PIE and Opera's cache freed over 30M of device memory for me!
While Opera gives a setting for cache size, PIE has only a registry setting:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\5.0\Cache\Content\CacheLimit
It's set to 42680 in my Tilt. While I can change the registry value, the change won't survive a soft reset.
My solution is to regularly clear the browser caches and check the device for temp files. It's made a huge difference for me (from 11M free to 61M free)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, we are talking about RAM (program memory) and you are talking about ROM (storage memory).
I always use memmaid to clean up before backup to make sure no junks are being backup. In fact, most backup software allow you to choose what directory to or not to backup.
jackleung said:
Man, we are talking about RAM (program memory) and you are talking about ROM (storage memory).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see that in the previous posts. I do understand the difference between program and storage memory. RAM is where everything but the base system is stored... right? ROM (read only memory) isn't used for a dynamic cache... right?
gavink said:
I don't see that in the previous posts. I do understand the difference between program and storage memory. RAM is where everything but the base system is stored... right? ROM (read only memory) isn't used for a dynamic cache... right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was back on '03... the terms stayed the same but since WM5 the technology changed
It's like on your PC.
RAM is the storage the programs actually run in, ROM is the ... rest
If you look at the Memory Page in the settings. ROM ("Storage") is what you're talking about and RAM ("Program") is what the rest of us is talking about...
Stefan
Sayuuk said:
That was back on '03... the terms stayed the same but since WM5 the technology changed
It's like on your PC.
RAM is the storage the programs actually run in, ROM is the ... rest
If you look at the Memory Page in the settings. ROM ("Storage") is what you're talking about and RAM ("Program") is what the rest of us is talking about...
Stefan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sooo... you're saying that my PIE and Opera caches are both in my Tilt's ROM? Wow... somehow I fell waaaay behind the times!
gavink said:
Sooo... you're saying that my PIE and Opera caches are both in my Tilt's ROM? Wow... somehow I fell waaaay behind the times!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not actually ROM anymore, that's what I meant and I guess that's why you're confused.
I think you understand what RAM is. Now what we mean when we say ROM is just the rest of the internal storage that is NOT the RAM.
If you read the specs of HTC phones you always see 128MB RAM and 256MB ROM. ROM in this case is just a name that's in use cuz it's always been used, though it's not ReadOnlyMemory nowadays.
Stefan
hi,
I bought the Indian 2.75G version of the htc touch diamond without the extra in the front.
I checked the task manager memory and this is what it looks like:
http://gidisrael.googlepages.com/myDiamondmem.jpg
Is that correct?
If I'm not mistaken program memory is supposed to be 192MB and Rom:256MB??
Thanks so much
Google is your friend.
As far as I know, 64Mb is reserved for the GPU (+ maybe other phone functions). Here for more.
I did do some searching, but I guess I would'nt have found an article with the title "64MB eaten by aliens".
Anyway, thanks so much. I'm a little confused about the ROM now, what about the 256 MB ROM, where did it dissappear and why does it say I have 83.44 MB storage memory.
After some searching I found this on an archived post here:
128Mb of RAM speaks for itself. Of the 256Mb of flash however, 128Mb contains the operating system, the other 128Mb are available to the end user to install programs and add documents. When flashing any given device, the available flashrom is first filled up with the OS, after which a second amount is allocated to the extended rom area, and finally the rest is made available to the end user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this correct?
Thanks.
I did a bit of research and that quote seems quite correct as to what is stored in the flash ROM:
- bootloader
- OS
- extended ROM area (themes, customizations and apps that install immediately after a hard-reset)
- (lastly) the user-available portion.
Your 83Mb is similar to my free storage mem.
I suppose getting a ROM with all the unnecessary apps removed is your best bet of increasing your program storage size. Also, I think chefs move some apps into the extended flashROM area, making more space available to program storage.
H3x said:
Google is your friend.
As far as I know, 64Mb is reserved for the GPU (+ maybe other phone functions). Here for more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read in other threads, both the Diamond and the Pro lacks graphics drivers for hardware processed rendering so what's the use of having a GPU then?
everyone would like to know
mostly to lure people in with a spec that doesnt live up to itself.