Database Develop

Nokia N73 or Sony Ericsson K810i?

Hey everyone, i'm upgrading now and am torn between getting the N73 or the K810 (which is coming out next month).
http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=gb&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pip1&zone=pp&pid=10804
http://www.nokia.co.uk/link?cid=PLAIN_TEXT_119601
I am downgrading to a non-Windows phone because the Wizard I have isn't very practical and isn't a hero in all situations...of course I intend to continue developing it as there really is nothing like Windows CE.
The N73 has better video but it's very common. It's a Nokia, and I think they're quite boring to use. The camera is brilliant, but I hear the shutter speed is slow compared to Ericssons.
The K810 looks awesome but has stone age video (176x144). I like Ericssons, they're fun, and very usable.
Please anyone with any knowledge atall leave any comments or thoughts.

I just got myself a K800i from eBay to go with my array of Windows Mobile phones. One of the first thing I did was flash the K810i firmware to it (although that did nothing to help with the big lump on the back of the phone, which the K810i will not suffer from!)
I was just after a cheap phone with the best camera available, purely to use on a stag-do I'm going on soon. As my limit was £100 (in case I lose/break the thing) my choice was between the Sony and the Nokia too.
I went for the Sony, largely because it has a *proper* flash which will come in handy in low-lit bars and clubs, but I also have an irrational dislike of Nokia's, and I've owned Symbian S60 devices in the past which, looking back, I wasn't thrilled with (Although I loved my old Siemens SX1 at the time).
A good friend of mine has an N73, and in the interest of balance, I will say (grudgingly) that having had a play around with it, it's one of the nicest Nokia's I've seen for a long time. Very good quality pictures, and the latest S60 is better than it ever has been. Only the N95 is better, but that costs a fortune at the moment!
Having used my K800i for just over a week (to get used to it before my drunken trip) I'm seriously considering keeping it as my main phone, at least for the forseeable future. The camera is truly brilliant, even in the absolute pitch black, it has an RSS reader which I use heavily, a capable media player and FM radio, a QVGA web-browser which is at least as good as Mobile IE on a Windows Smartphone, and a massive range of QVGA Java games available. The main thing though, is how insanely usable I'm finding it. Even the N73 doesn't beat the K800i for ease of use.
I have never used video recording on a mobile for anything except MMS, so although Qcif is a bit off-putting at first, it really makes no difference to me. If you're going to be using it for viewing on your PC, then I would say that the general video quality on the K800i comes out about as well as my Universal or my Hermes, despite the lower resolution, mainly because the framerate is more consistent, and the colours/image is sharper to begin with. The N73 is obviously superior for video though.
The main limitation of the K800i for me, is the rather basic e-mail. On my main e-mail account, "push" IMAP4 actually delivers my e-mails to my K800i before "push" Exchange does to my WM5 device (which I'm baffled by). However, you can't view .doc .xls .ppt .pdf attachments on the Sony. You can download and forward them on, but you can't open them.
Also, my music collection is in .ogg format, which the Sony can't handle. It's a shame, because I'm now having to rip things to mp3 for the plane trip.
So basically, if you need flexibility then the N73 is the one to go for. It has better video, and a better e-mail client, plus you can add on extra software features as you go along 'cause it's a Symbian phone.
Have a play around with a K800i - the K810i really is virtually identical, so you'll get a very good idea for yourself of what it will and wont be able to do, but I'd say if you want a more stylish, and extremely usable phone for daily use - with a slightly better camera - then you should go for the Sony.

hi, dont talk about SE or nokias even in off topic, they r low class,
thanks

hey, thanks sub69, that post was very helpful! i decided upon the K810 and i haven't looked back. i had a play with an N73 and i found it very slow and quite clumsy.
thanks again

Saaduk said:
hi, dont talk about SE or nokias even in off topic, they r low class,
thanks
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Click to collapse
Not low class atall. I'm talking about Nokia and Sony Ericsson's flagship mobiles, not a Motorola V3 or Nokia 3310.

nice rb26dett

HTC kaiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saaduk said:
nice rb26dett
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Click to collapse
That's the Skyline engine?

2jz_ooshyt

Sample video, it is awful :(

The video created by Kaiser is terrible!
Look into the example in this thread. Those people were just walking, normally.
And the video result is really bad, blurry on movement.
Did I do something wrong?

maybe there is a configuration section where you can set it to 25/30 frames per second¿...

No, there is no configuration like that.
I can only choose "video mode" and resolution.
No frame per second setting.
pepeto2001 said:
maybe there is a configuration section where you can set it to 25/30 frames per second¿...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

With what kind of device are you comparing it to?
Another cameraphone that performs better, or a real video camera?
I have zero expectations from any cameraphone. They all have abysmal quality, it's a fundamental reality with the compromises in optics and sensor size needed to keep the phone portable.

I think you do something wrong...
Show in THIS Thread and you will see what a Video can look like. The Video there are very ok to good in my opinion..
cu
SKSAustin

Entropy512, I dont compare with other device and dont expect a very good quality. But I compared with the one created in this thread :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=328201
Like mentioned by SKSAustin.
As far as configuration, if you look into the camera, there is nothing special there, no fancy or detailed configuration.
You can only select resolution, which in this case I use 320x240.
So, I still cant figure out why the video was so bad.
It could be, because of the "indoor" situation, not enough light? Then the autofocus was not fast enough.
I have not tried outdoor btw (will do today).
But still, if that is the case, then it sucks!

something is wrong you have 3fps in that video

gogol said:
Entropy512, I dont compare with other device and dont expect a very good quality. But I compared with the one created in this thread :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=328201
Like mentioned by SKSAustin.
As far as configuration, if you look into the camera, there is nothing special there, no fancy or detailed configuration.
You can only select resolution, which in this case I use 320x240.
So, I still cant figure out why the video was so bad.
It could be, because of the "indoor" situation, not enough light? Then the autofocus was not fast enough.
I have not tried outdoor btw (will do today).
But still, if that is the case, then it sucks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesnt resolution = quality?

I tried a quick video last night (poor indoor lighting conditions) and i got exactly the same result - so hopefully it's merely because of the poor lighting.
I'll make some other vids and post them when i can!

This is very bad... but at the same time very funny to watch. They move like Akuma in Street Fighters...

This is very bad, but at the same time very funny to watch. They move like Akuma in Street Fighters...

Great, i can't open MP4s anymore! Quicktime comes up with:
-Error -2401: an invalid sample description was found in the movie.
lame!

Ok, I can confirm that this kind of bad video is caused by the indoor situation.
This morning, I created outdoor video something like in the other thread and it is nice.
See in the attachment.
Glad it was not a problem with hardware!
wywywywy said:
This is very bad, but at the same time very funny to watch. They move like Akuma in Street Fighters...
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Yeah...that's great...
So, anyone with a little photographic background/experience could have thought up the explanation for your 3fps problem....: in low light the frame rate goes down like the shutterspeed on a regular photocamera would.
Sounds perfectly normal/plausible to me

Ihave the device and I would give the following scores to the camera:
Close up Mode : 9/10
Pictures :8/10
video : 8/10

mhg2000 said:
Ihave the device and I would give the following scores to the camera:
Close up Mode : 9/10
Pictures :8/10
video : 8/10
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Click to collapse
Based on what?
I am visiting this forum looking for info on the TyTNII, as a replacement for my Nokia N95. I like the form factor of the TyTNII a lot, but things like the camera is really, really bad, when you are used to the N95.
The frame rate of the N95 is 30 fps in full vga resolution, meaning 4x the res of the TyTNII, and it doesn't drop to 3 fps just because of lower light levels. Besides, the still photos of the N95 is years ahead of the TyTNII, so if the latter one scores 8-9/10, I guess the N95 scores 20/10...
This is actually very sad for me, because I have been looking forward to the TyTNII since the first info was leaked, but now I am not so sure I want one after all, for this and a few other reasons. Hopefully a new ROM will fix some of these issues.
If you are going to tell me 'it's just a phone', then obviously you haven't tried the N95. It really goes a long way to replace your normal digicam. Nice to only have to carry a single device, and obviously the future.

you may want to check to make sure you do not have multiple other programs running when you go into video mode (memory crunch may slow performance)

HBK said:
Based on what?
I am visiting this forum looking for info on the TyTNII, as a replacement for my Nokia N95. I like the form factor of the TyTNII a lot, but things like the camera is really, really bad, when you are used to the N95.
The frame rate of the N95 is 30 fps in full vga resolution, meaning 4x the res of the TyTNII, and it doesn't drop to 3 fps just because of lower light levels. Besides, the still photos of the N95 is years ahead of the TyTNII, so if the latter one scores 8-9/10, I guess the N95 scores 20/10...
This is actually very sad for me, because I have been looking forward to the TyTNII since the first info was leaked, but now I am not so sure I want one after all, for this and a few other reasons. Hopefully a new ROM will fix some of these issues.
If you are going to tell me 'it's just a phone', then obviously you haven't tried the N95. It really goes a long way to replace your normal digicam. Nice to only have to carry a single device, and obviously the future.
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Click to collapse
I think the N95 took great pics too, but do you think it's fair to compare the two? I think it's more fair to compare the E90 to the Tytn 2 as I think these two devices have more relations, than a multimedia device like the N95

Certainly, TyTn II is not for you
I have not and will not try N95, even though the camera and video might be better (obviously, because N95 is 5 MP), because simply Symbian is not my preferred Mobile OS.
Oh btw, I cant live without built-in qwerty keyboard ... that's all.
HBK said:
Based on what?
I am visiting this forum looking for info on the TyTNII, as a replacement for my Nokia N95. I like the form factor of the TyTNII a lot, but things like the camera is really, really bad, when you are used to the N95.
The frame rate of the N95 is 30 fps in full vga resolution, meaning 4x the res of the TyTNII, and it doesn't drop to 3 fps just because of lower light levels. Besides, the still photos of the N95 is years ahead of the TyTNII, so if the latter one scores 8-9/10, I guess the N95 scores 20/10...
This is actually very sad for me, because I have been looking forward to the TyTNII since the first info was leaked, but now I am not so sure I want one after all, for this and a few other reasons. Hopefully a new ROM will fix some of these issues.
If you are going to tell me 'it's just a phone', then obviously you haven't tried the N95. It really goes a long way to replace your normal digicam. Nice to only have to carry a single device, and obviously the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

1. The N95 really isn't a multimedia device. It's an advanced smartphone with extremely powerful hardware, but that label doesn't sell It does just about everything the TyTN II does, only lacking the qwerty and touch screen. Screen size is about the same and the resolution is identical. I prefer the Microsoft OS over S60, but that is my personal preference and I must admit that S60 have some very strong points over WM (and vice versa, of course).
2. I don't need the qwerty, but that doesn't mean that TyTN II isn't for me. Previously I have owned the Magician + a few MS smartphones and latest the Mio A701, so WM is by no means new to me. A few months back I got the feeling that it was time to replace the A701 and with TyTN II nowhere in sight, really I could see no WM device being a serious competition to the N95. So I got the Nokia, my first mobile of that brand for about 5 years
So, with the TyTN II now in the hands of normal users, I decided to have a look at this site for info and unfortunately it looks like even TyTN II can't compete evenly with the N95 on all points. All is not lost, though, if the compression algorithm is updated to something less destructive. I do believe the cam hardware of TyTN II is better than the current software, which can only be a positive thing. So HTC, bring on the first firmware update, please

This phone is not a graphics device, its a business tool.

OK, rather than hijack a thread, this is what I posted last night in the class action thread:
Steve-C said:
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
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Click to collapse
These were the responses:
forcedalias said:
So, are you saying that just because it's business-oriented, its camera should continue to suffer from video driver issues? That it should be slower to process anything with some graphics in it, business-related, entertainment or otherwise?
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Click to collapse
omikr0n said:
GPS, email, office - fine.
Web browsing - not at all - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qbaDLzOU_Y
Syncing - fine, except mine disconnects randomly when connected via bluetooth
Movies - I haven't seen a single movie playing fluently on TyTN II
Is this really acceptable for you? Especially for such expensive device? I paid nearly $1000 for device that my 5 (!) year old iPaq h2210 can easily outperform at ANYTHING?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never understood the driver issues, as I haven't witnessed them. Looking at the YouTube video posted, that is very worrying, but I would like to know how were such poor results achieved?
This is my Kaiser (running the stock o2 ROM). Firstly it shows a video being played on my laptop, second the same section of the same video on my Kaiser. Then a web page in PIE, followed by a bit of surfing on Opera. From my video, it seems to perform just fine. So am I just really lucky, or am I missing something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrHwG6xpc-E

Nope I get the same results.

Well, i dont have big issues with movies.
However, i notice a lot of "lag" effects sometimes when scrolling. Of course installed the scrolling fix for IE, which makes it far better, but still, there is interface lag.
This lag is easily noticeable when you try to close an app and need to point your stylus like 3 or 4 times on the top right X before anything appears.
Also noticeable when you scroll in the "programs" window , interface lag, the scrolling is bad, really... The icons in the programs windows look like they disappear (this part of the screen becomes totally blank/white) then half-reappear then disappear etc... It is UGLY. When scrolling in program window, what should be SEEN would be real scrolling icons, fluid and all ! It should be nice, fluid, and shouldnt look like the screen refresh is 1 frame / second.
With such a processor and the included ATI thingy i would have thought of a faster interface avoiding such lag tbh.

The Stargate video that you're showing on your tilt in your video, did you conver that first?
If not, I'd like to know the stats on the video. Whats the resolution, file size, etc.
I've copied music videos to my phone and they play like crap. I had to spend $30 on conversion software and wait for the media to be converted down before I was able to watch anything.
Stargate Atlantis episodes that are 350mb take a long time to convert. To me it's a waste of time. I'd rather have a fully functional device with proper video support. Software rendering makes the screen draw slow and makes the device lag.
So, have you copied any video files at all to your phone and had them not play correctly? Or are you saying that every video you've tried has worked fine?
That has NOT been my experience. I have to convert everything to 320x240 at 640 bitrate before my phone will play video smoothly.

There is no need to argue, the phone is capable of doing more, why not just face the fact.. If it can do more, what's the use on arguing "its already good enough??" No its not, the camera is the worse thing ive ever seen.
Dont get me wrong, the phone is great. I love it. The reception is the best ive ever seen.. But we just want them to correct the video driver issue, that is all. Its not harming you... is it? No need to drunk rant ..
Oh and by the way, technology is supposed to improve, the phone is an upgrade. Did it upgrade? No. I see no improvements..
Oh wait!, we got GPS .. I'll give you that.. Even then the GPS takes like 20 minutes to find a satallite. but it is great once its up and running.

I WOULD like to be able to turn on the eye candy and not destroy the usability of my device... even for business purposes

As the video seems to be really low res (QVGA at most) it should work, (we don't know about the bitrate but I'm assuming it's fairly low too).
Most of us who are complaining want a seamless experience. Ie we want to watch the regular videos we want on our computers on our mobile device.
IE scrolling seems nice enough, that seems to differ a bit between ROMs.
I can just share my experience from strart to "finish":
I read up on what device to get. Kaiser was very much hyped at the time. I took the time to read their webpage where they claim that the phone is "more powerful than any other mobile communicator". The same text says that the device is equally good for business and pleasure. It also reccomends using it for gaming:
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before"
"perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games."
"Always ready for business - and pleasure"
I also took the time to check out the MSM7200 processor and what that was all about.
Now my primary focus is business. I wanted Office Mobile and a nice contact manager etc. I have no gripes there.
The problem started showing up when I came to the gaming/pleaasure part.
I tried dragging and dropping some TV shows (700kbps 512x384 res) and the playback is prety lousy.
So I went out and bought CorePlayer for 25 bucks. First result was even worse. So then I figured out that I actually had to turn off the standard Windows Mobile rendering interface called DirectDraw. Seemed strange enough as this is THE standard interface for drawing video on a windows mobile device. With a lot of tweaking I got semi acceptable playback in the end.
A day later I started playing around with the camera. It took me about five seconds to realize that it was utterly flawed. Shutter speed (or rather the processing speed) makes the delay from the point where you click the button to where the picture is taken was so slow that none of my pictures came out right.
It's also exceedingly difficult to use the viewfinder seeing as it runs at less than 5 fps and with extreme blur.
Capturing video was also a downer. Instead of the 30 fps @ VGA resolution that the chipset touts I'm getting 10-15 fps and I might add that to me it looks like it's even less than that. Utterly unwatchable.
So ok, video playback and the camera was pretty awful. But as I said I mainly intended to use this for business so I didn't think much more of it.
So I tried surfing a bit on the web. I run a website and I wanted to check my bak account.
What I noticed was that as soon as I visited a "non-Mobile" website everything slowed down. Scrolling takes forever, and also simply rendering the page takes "too" long.
The mobile pages of my service provider works like a charm, but that's a no brainer seeing as they are meant to work on everything from the cheapest 50 dollar phones and up.
Then came the weekend. I was off to some friends that live out in the country. I had to go there by train.
So "hey, great time to load it up with some games".
Some of the games I've heard of was legend of steel and call of duty 2.
Well call of duty 2 was just as mess, with no open gl support.
legend works pretty well unless you actually try to play the game. As soon as the stylus hits that screen everything start going in slow motion.
I resorted to playing bubble breaker and tetris for the trip.
By this time I was pretty annoyed since my 3 year old Sony Ericsson el cheapo 3G-phone gave me a much better gaming experience than this.
So then I resorted to emulators. I really wanted to try out some nice emulating but again, performance was too low.
I didn't expect the TyTN II to be a Playstation Portable challenger but I didn't expect it to be just a typing machine with a calendar attached to it either.
I found this forum and surely enough I found out about the lack of drivers and everything suddenly made sense.
And the thing that bugs me the most about this is that the drivers are readily available to HTC, they just choose not to provide them to us.
So personally I'm a bit pissed off and I surely won't consider HTC a first hand alternative the next time I go shopping for a new PDA phone.
/Scincerele signed "Business users who expected more"
there you go (actually a true story even though a made it cheesy on purpose. )
oh yeah, PS I'm also pretty irritated by the lag that you get when you put the phone in landscape mode or vice versa. And the slight lag that happens when you start programs (you can actually see how the device renders in approx 10-20 lines at a time) it's not a deal breaker but I certainly expected more, especially since I've used similar phones using both pal, symbian and windows mobile and other OSes (even really cheap ones) that don't exhibit the same symptoms.
Still it's only a minor gripe...

The page you shown doesn't prove anything, it is contains for too less content. Try open forum.xda-developers.com you'll see the huge lag...

undac said:
As the video seems to be really low res (QVGA at most) it should work, (we don't know about the bitrate but I'm assuming it's fairly low too).
Most of us who are complaining want a seamless experience. Ie we want to watch the regular videos we want on our computers on our mobile device.
IE scrolling seems nice enough, that seems to differ a bit between ROMs.
I can just share my experience from strart to "finish":
I read up on what device to get. Kaiser was very much hyped at the time. I took the time to read their webpage where they claim that the phone is "more powerful than any other mobile communicator". The same text says that the device is equally good for business and pleasure. It also reccomends using it for gaming:
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before"
"perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games."
"Always ready for business - and pleasure"
I also took the time to check out the MSM7200 processor and what that was all about.
Now my primary focus is business. I wanted Office Mobile and a nice contact manager etc. I have no gripes there.
The problem started showing up when I came to the gaming/pleaasure part.
I tried dragging and dropping some TV shows (700kbps 512x384 res) and the playback is prety lousy.
So I went out and bought CorePlayer for 25 bucks. First result was even worse. So then I figured out that I actually had to turn off the standard Windows Mobile rendering interface called DirectDraw. Seemed strange enough as this is THE standard interface for drawing video on a windows mobile device. With a lot of tweaking I got semi acceptable playback in the end.
A day later I started playing around with the camera. It took me about five seconds to realize that it was utterly flawed. Shutter speed (or rather the processing speed) makes the delay from the point where you click the button to where the picture is taken was so slow that none of my pictures came out right.
It's also exceedingly difficult to use the viewfinder seeing as it runs at less than 5 fps and with extreme blur.
Capturing video was also a downer. Instead of the 30 fps @ VGA resolution that the chipset touts I'm getting 10-15 fps and I might add that to me it looks like it's even less than that. Utterly unwatchable.
So ok, video playback and the camera was pretty awful. But as I said I mainly intended to use this for business so I didn't think much more of it.
Then came the weekend. I was off to some friends that live out in the country. I had to go there by train.
So "hey, great time to load it up with some games".
Some of the games I've heard of was legend of steel and call of duty 2.
Well call of duty 2 was just as mess, with no open gl support.
legend works pretty well unless you actually try to play the game. As soon as the stylus hits that screen everything start going in slow motion.
I resorted to playing bubble breaker and tetris for the trip.
By this time I was pretty annoyed since my 3 year old Sony Ericsson el cheapo 3G-phone gave me a much better gaming experience than this.
So then I resorted to emulators. I really wanted to try out some nice emulating but again, performance was too low.
I didn't expect the TyTN II to be a Playstation Portable challenger but I didn't expect it to be just a typing machine with a calendar attached to it either.
I found this forum and surely enough I found out about the lack of drivers and everything suddenly made sense.
And the thing that bugs me the most about this is that the drivers are readily available to HTC, they just choose not to provide them to us.
So personally I'm a bit pissed off and I surely won't consider HTC a first hand alternative the next time I go shopping for a new PDA phone.
/Scincerele signed "Business users who expected more"
there you go (actually a true story even though a made it cheesy on purpose. )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said!!! This is why I left sprint. I got the Mogul, was advertised GPS when it came out. Well to this date, they are waiting for a "rom update".

woo, we really don't need to go into this because by token of that same logic:
Your computer is a business tool, not an entertainment device.
Your car is a business tool and necessity. You don't need a cd player or radio.
etc. etc.
Now why is this a big issue? Because it was false advertising. Because what we bought wasn't just a big mac and some fries. And because what we bought wasn't worth $15. What we bought was worth more than $500 US. What we bought was a device that could do everything and more. Like a car, you didn't just buy it for business, but for pleasure. And to falsely advertise and prey on the good faith of us consumers isn't just bad. It's criminal.

The point is, even if you consider that the TyTN II a business phone and don't care about it preforming way below it's possibilities, the other HTC devices based on the MSM7200 and MSM7500 chipsets, like the Touch Dual and Touch Cruise, which suffer from the same problems, are certainly meant for 'fun user', not 'business user'. And their PREDECESSORS did all of this fine.
So everything you said is still BS.

The youtube Video demonstrates the Kaiser PIE Scroll bug issue, not the Video driver issue btw. That bug was fixed here. Most cooked ROMs now incorporate the fix.

Yes this will be corrected on the site (the GDI video is way better for demonstration anyway, too bad it's not a comparison).. and the new support reports will be added. But if you ask me this is just a distraction. They know full well what the problem is, this is just to give the illusion they really didn't know, and are trying to figure it out, so they can say it really wasn't their fault. They're just acting out a play.
Really, the responce changing not 24 hours after the sites were launched (and they were informed of this, after all) and only 2 or 3 hours after a fairly large tech site frontpaged it? That is not a coincidence.

I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.

Scott_F said:
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
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Click to collapse
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.

Scott_F said:
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
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Click to collapse
I have a Kaiser which has the power to do both. Too bad it doesn't. By the way, since you seem to be such a huge fan of having multiple devices for doing multiple things, you should probably sell that Kaiser to get a flip phone, buy a PDA, get yourself a dedicated GPS receiver, and a Walkman radio, since having an all-in-one would be far too much integration for you.

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
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Awesome.
I bout my Tilt for 588 USD, totally ignoring my upgrade date, with the hopes that i would no longer need two devices. Until they fix the issue, making the device into what I thought I was buying, I will continue to be pissed about this.

this phone is not a graphics device? have you ever seen the datasheet of the MSM2700? THAT WAS THE REASON FOR I GOT MY KAISER!! (and the keyboard)

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
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Just because he has something made by Apple, doesn't mean it's time to talk ****. I personally don't like apple, but they have created some innovative features for the smart phone world.

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
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You dont need to insult people because they have different opinion on something.

What is the "xda" forum of symbian?

Xda-developers is the biggest windows mobile community, but what is the biggest symbian forum? I know nothing about symbian but would like to start learning about it.

my-symbian.com I suppose... but it's nowhere near as good as xda-dev.

yeh, I would also like to know more about it...
Like does it have something like activesync for syncing with outlook on the pc? And what's it's equal to Internet Sharing?

Lol, let me hazard a guess: is it due to the crap graphic drivers and the inability of this platform to exhibit anything of graphic value, as compared to Symbian which has recently proven itself worthy of Quake 3?
I had an N73 in the past before which I had WinMo smartphones, and after dabbling deep into Symbian, WinMo is way better; just give it a few months and let's see what comes out.
For syncing, there is Nokia's own software (when I used it last) called Nokia PC Suite, which is crap. It's like a whole slew of applications, half of which are never needed and the Suite itself is nested on the computer's RAM. Not sure about Internet Sharing since I've never needed it.

nuke1 said:
Lol, let me hazard a guess: is it due to the crap graphic drivers and the inability of this platform to exhibit anything of graphic value, as compared to Symbian which has recently proven itself worthy of Quake 3?
I had an N73 in the past before which I had WinMo smartphones, and after dabbling deep into Symbian, WinMo is way better; just give it a few months and let's see what comes out.
For syncing, there is Nokia's own software (when I used it last) called Nokia PC Suite, which is crap. It's like a whole slew of applications, half of which are never needed and the Suite itself is nested on the computer's RAM. Not sure about Internet Sharing since I've never needed it.
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hahaha yes! Just based off observations... Nokia has always had some of the fastest emulators, fastest ports, the GREATEST doom port! The last few years I've always been asking "why isnt this GBA emulator as fast as Nokia's?" "Why can't my Snes play like that one Nokia phone?" And of course... WHY DOESNT DONT DOOM HAVE MUSIC??? nokia phone's have music when they play doom!"
I actually dont know too much about symbian, if it can play quake 3 or whatnot, but i do know it can play gba, snes, and DOOM. That's why I'd like to visit a symbian forum, to see where they are at in comparison to windows mobile. With that new N97 comming out, Touchscreen, AND uses s60, that sounds pretty good to me.

look at this comparison:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1329&id2=1306&id3=969&id4=1616&id5=1445
doesn't it just kind of...make you want the N97?

mikeeey said:
doesn't it just kind of...make you want the N97?
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Watch you get flamed for that lol.

mikeeey said:
look at this comparison:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1329&id2=1306&id3=969&id4=1616&id5=1445
doesn't it just kind of...make you want the N97?
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If we could get something like that, but with WinMo :3

bump.
I'd just like to say that my next phone will most likely be the Nokia n82.
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=984
90mb accesible ram
stereo loudspeakers
3.5mm audio output
FM radio
GPS /w Agps
5 Megapixel camera with Xenon flash!
let me just show you some videos showing it's impressive camera + video recording.
Here it's capturing a firework show!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYDKJO1tPiE
Here is a concert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyJyt092jHo
Here you can see it's amazing shutter speed. It can capture a still shot of a spinning fan blade, while the N95 makes it appear blurry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qIYtFkJEh4
Here is a picture the N82 took in the pitch dark:
compare it to this pic the N95 took in the pitch dark:
Check out this album on flickr showing lots of pictures taken by different users with their nokia N82's.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/nokian82usergroup/
The image quality of the N82's camera is just amazing, compatible to a digital camera.
The N82 will also support quake 3 at full detail and framerate with motion sensors (optional) and buttons. Of corse it will play all the emulators such as GBA and SNES at full framerate as well!

You and Quake 3 lol. Seems like you really like the game; i've seen you mention the game throughout many of your posts
Device does look pretty stellar (specs-wise).

kareem9nba said:
You and Quake 3 lol. Seems like you really like the game; i've seen you mention the game throughout many of your posts
Device does look pretty stellar (specs-wise).
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lol. Yes, and the price isn't terribly expensive. $300. About half of what phones cost now. It's a nice sturdy bar phone, so it will get me by until a REALLY good windows mobile phone comes out.
haha yeah it seems like every electronic I buy now must be able to play quake 3.

Will we ever get smooth graphics on X1?

Im talking about watching movies, playing games - i dont know what the reason its so slow but it is painfully slow. its bothering me a lot. it seems like older much cheaper phones can play video much better than our phones.
is it a hardware fault (no hope) or a software fault ?

its a software fault
if you update your phone to some custom roms the phone runs LOTS faster
anyways, my videos and some 3d games run pretty fast on my phone.
not java games cause those arent hardware supported

I have to say that I am pretty darn happy with video playback on this phone... its fast and doesnt lag... the sound is even in sync with the picture unlike some devices I have tried before... I have not played any graphics intensive games on this phone so far though...

a game like archibalds adventure cant even scroll properly. i mean it looks like it was taken out of the 80s.

Maybe it is because this phone has up to 5 times more pixels then previous phones you have owned?

whats the point in it having 5 times the pixels if it cant cope with them

tehnoobzorz said:
its a software fault
if you update your phone to some custom roms the phone runs LOTS faster
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Care to recommend a ROM?

orangedavie said:
whats the point in it having 5 times the pixels if it cant cope with them
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It copes with them just fine. it just wasn't made with gaming in mind.

Shadowdh said:
I have to say that I am pretty darn happy with video playback on this phone... its fast and doesnt lag... the sound is even in sync with the picture unlike some devices I have tried before... I have not played any graphics intensive games on this phone so far though...
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What videos? Are these videos, by chance a chintzy 320x240? I've tried avi videos in standard DVD resolution, 720x480 and 640x480 and they are both choppy as hell. There are far too many apologists for the really lackluster video playback on this device. I realize it's a driver issue, but when rich multimedia playback is one of the selling points, I think it verges on false advertising when it can't play accepted video standards. Have HTC pony up the money to Qualcomm for the right drivers and I think the X1 and a number of other devices in their stable can really start to live up to their claims.

Yeah, I have to agree. 5X the pixels means nothing if the phone can't handle them

No problem for me with video...
-I recode vidéo in 800*480 with HTC Touch HD Video Converter
-I use Windows Media Player to watch video

rom im using
im using touch it xperience 3.5 but i've heard touch it 2.2 was faster

from now on if it has qualcom in the hardware spec im gonna avoid it like the plague!

I gotta admit, just when I start being happy with the Xperia video.....
I'll look over at some movie my wife is watching on the iphone and just shake my head. The Xperia is NOT impressive in the video dept. I can get video to play to ALMOST lag free and it looks pretty dang good. But c'mon already! With the hardware capabilities of this phone, video should look all around amazing.

KennyXL said:
What videos? Are these videos, by chance a chintzy 320x240? I've tried avi videos in standard DVD resolution, 720x480 and 640x480 and they are both choppy as hell. There are far too many apologists for the really lackluster video playback on this device. I realize it's a driver issue, but when rich multimedia playback is one of the selling points, I think it verges on false advertising when it can't play accepted video standards. Have HTC pony up the money to Qualcomm for the right drivers and I think the X1 and a number of other devices in their stable can really start to live up to their claims.
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I have converted some Chinese tv serial episodes using magic video converter and they came out great, not too sure of the res but by memory its around 640x480 to 720x480 as you comment... no lag and sound is better than I expected... I also have a movie or two that works just as well, again Chinese stuff (as I am learning Chinese I find this is an interesting way to help out with both reading (subtitles) and listening)... I am using coreplayer and have it in full screen mode when watching...
Oh and I am by no means an apologist... if it was crap I would say so, but its not... but then I dont expect my phone to act or have the same capacity as my laptop/pc.... its a phone and does what it says on the tin...

I dont get it. I have a stock ROM and my video is perfect. I downloaded an Ipod converted (m4v) version of Superbad and it looks and sounds amazing FULL screen btw). All i had to do was rename the file to mp4 and it works perfectly! Maybe there is something else going on with you guys phones. I also have Anchorman, SemiPro, and several others running perfectly. Besides TF3D, i dont have any other plug ins installed.

I also have no issues with video playback,
I am running Touch IT 2.2 which i am not willing to replace yet because the ROM is fast as hell and bug free. Just used the HD converter in the sticky on page 1 along with a few speed tweeks from the Mark a Clienti thread and POW!! full screen, top notch quality res and not a single lag or frame drop in sight.
I have noticed that a lot of people are having issues with various applications on their SE X1's but i dont seem to have had any issues at all. I started with the clean ROM and made sure i installed all of my required apps and tweaks in one go, making sure to reset after each install. After that i just sat back and watched it fly, maybe i'm just lucky
Regards,
Creamy-Goodness

creamy said:
I also have no issues with video playback,
I am running Touch IT 2.2 which i am not willing to replace yet because the ROM is fast as hell and bug free. Just used the HD converter in the sticky on page 1 along with a few speed tweeks from the Mark a Clienti thread and POW!! full screen, top notch quality res and not a single lag or frame drop in sight.
I have noticed that a lot of people are having issues with various applications on their SE X1's but i dont seem to have had any issues at all. I started with the clean ROM and made sure i installed all of my required apps and tweaks in one go, making sure to reset after each install. After that i just sat back and watched it fly, maybe i'm just lucky
Regards,
Creamy-Goodness
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i dont see why I have to convert videos to another format.

Shadowdh said:
I have converted some Chinese tv serial episodes using magic video converter and they came out great, not too sure of the res but by memory its around 640x480 to 720x480 as you comment... no lag and sound is better than I expected... I also have a movie or two that works just as well, again Chinese stuff (as I am learning Chinese I find this is an interesting way to help out with both reading (subtitles) and listening)... I am using coreplayer and have it in full screen mode when watching...
Oh and I am by no means an apologist... if it was crap I would say so, but its not... but then I dont expect my phone to act or have the same capacity as my laptop/pc.... its a phone and does what it says on the tin...
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You might want to check out what the bitrates are on those videos. Your average avi video is about 1.3-1.4 gigabytes in size for your standard 1.75-2 hour movie. That comes to about 1,500 kbs. Anything significantly less than that and it looks kind of muddy when viewed on a regular sized TV screen. Ideally, you shouldn't even have to recode video you ripped yourself. In theory you should be able to rip once and play on all your appliances that are video capable using a standard codec with reasonable settings. An avi file 1.3 gigabytes in size for a 2 hour movie is entirely reasonable and I highly doubt that you can achieve that with the X1 in its current state. I've tried extensively and the only way you can make it play with any level of smoothness is by dramatically reducing the resolution or dropping the bitrate precipitously. You can't just drag an acceptable video from your computer onto this phone and expect it to play acceptably the way it is right now. As for the expectation that it's only a phone I say that the drivers are the only thing that prevent it from meeting the expectations. I'll bet the hardware is there, but HTC just feels like being cheap. Heck, there are phones debuting at MWC right now that do full motion 1080p playback of h.264 video. The X1, which isn't more than a few months old, can't smoothly play back a 640x480 1,500 kbs video. At $700 retail and their promise of a full-featured multi-media device that is scandalous. I dare anyone to say otherwise.

KennyXL said:
You might want to check out what the bitrates are on those videos. Your average avi video is about 1.3-1.4 gigabytes in size for your standard 1.75-2 hour movie. That comes to about 1,500 kbs. Anything significantly less than that and it looks kind of muddy when viewed on a regular sized TV screen.
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You sound much more knowledgable than me so I wont try to argue with you, but I have quite a few avi files that are around the 800mb size that play very well and are crisp and clear even on a bigger screen (my laptop is 15.4 and pc is 19inches), in fact I find it pretty rare to have an avi file over 900 Mb for a standard movie (up to 2hours I would guess is pretty standard)... As another poster a couple of posts back mentioned, I notice a few problems that people are having that I dont... thank goodness as with my level of understanding I would be hard pressed to now what it is I need to search for to fix the problem...