Related
Can we make this a sticky post where the end status of the Kaiser Video driver development stands?
Where does it stand? Has anyone started work on it? How do we get ahold of the information required for developing the driver? Can we determine if the development for this driver is even possible? (Is the hardware completely set up to handle it? Maybe there are hardware design hurdles which makes it impossible to be done - that HTC knows about but cannot or will not currently tell us? Even if the chipset is up to it, maybe there is some other piece of hardware missing like an additional circuit left out? How can we determine this for sure and get the work on this started?
Let's make this a sticky post and only those with specific information should post here...
What pieces of hardware are required for a developer to work on this driver development issue? I am willing to part with my older units (for a price, I was going to sell them) if that would help the effort: (O2 XDA/O2 XDA II/Cingular 8525) - what specific models support this chipset so we know what hardware can be used for the development effort?
There are three sticky posts on the subject of video drivers already - are these needs not met by the Video driver project thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=355345 ?
But not the current status
But not the current status in one place that is easy to find. Maybe there should be a sticky post with only one postingvand only updated - not added to - from time to time - only by the forum admin...
Developing new drivers from the ground up won't happen anytime soon. It's a massive undertaking and I bet much too much even for the fine people here.
Even "stealing" drivers from similair hardware has proven very difficult, though it's most probably possible.
I think our best chance would be if HTC releases a device with MSM 7200/7500 and they deliver it with drivers, then it would probably be a fairly easy task.
As for the hardware the only two things that come to mind would be if HTC bought cost reduced chipsets with non-functional Imageon hardware (if for an example there's a problem with yields and Qualcomm has a stock of partially broken chipsets) or if Qualcomm has different SKUs of the same chipset which they artificially handicap by disbling certain hardware (and thus ell them cheaper).
None of the two theories above are that far fetched actually.
Hardware manufacturers often artificially create multiple SKUs by disabling features in a high end product. (Perfect sample would be CD/DVD burners that are firmware capped to a lower speed that the hardware can actually manage.)
Sma ething happens with videocards. When Radeon 9500 was launched the chip on those boards were actually 9700 chips but with non-functional hardware units (and when ATi were out of those they actually started capping 9700 chips that were 100 % operational).
As for the exact current status I believe the only person who really gave this a try was Chainfire who tried to make the LG KS20 drivers work on a Kaiser without any luck. SO I guess the status is still att 0 % so to speak.
KruseLudsMobile said:
But not the current status in one place that is easy to find. Maybe there should be a sticky post with only one postingvand only updated - not added to - from time to time - only by the forum admin...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, thats a good idea.
Really there are way too many threads dealing with these issues. Two or three new ones at least pop up every day. As far as I know, there is currently nobody actually working on the drivers. I was, but after putting about a 100 hours in porting the LG KS20 drivers, ultimately without success, I focussed my efforts towards the website. Porting these drivers is most likely not impossible, but it's not an easy task and I personally only know of one person here on XDA who may possibly pull it off and this person does not have one of the affected devices, and even if she did, it might still take a long time to do.
In the meantime, progress is being made with the website, news coverage everywhere, and a lot going on behind the scenes that we honestly cannot say 'out loud'.
Let's first see what the update HTC keeps telling us about brings. And if you need to get rid of bounty money, I would say giving a fair part of it to those of us who have put all this effort and time into making it happen would not be unfair
Chainfire said:
Really there are way too many threads dealing with these issues. Two or three new ones at least pop up every day. As far as I know, there is currently nobody actually working on the drivers. I was, but after putting about a 100 hours in porting the LG KS20 drivers, ultimately without success, I focussed my efforts towards the website. Porting these drivers is most likely not impossible, but it's not an easy task and I personally only know of one person here on XDA who may possibly pull it off and this person does not have one of the affected devices, and even if she did, it might still take a long time to do.
In the meantime, progress is being made with the website, news coverage everywhere, and a lot going on behind the scenes that we honestly cannot say 'out loud'.
Let's first see what the update HTC keeps telling us about brings. And if you need to get rid of bounty money, I would say giving a fair part of it to those of us who have put all this effort and time into making it happen would not be unfair
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not enough threads IMO
Guys, I can make this thread sticky too if you promise it'll be a catch-all thread, eferring to all the other, referred threads.
But it does not look good for us. I think we're going to have to rely on developers to release drivers for us, not HTC
"HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smartphones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats," reads the official response, in part. Furthermore, the company has officially confirmed that Imageon drivers are not in use on the affected devices, but that it "plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link
Then its final. no more HTC for me as this will be my last HTC device.
HTC you ruined my day. . . Well, I think that means they want a huge money donation to enable them. . .
Yeah no more HTC for me. Everyone who wanted the driver issues fix should agree that when they buy their next PPC make sure it's not an HTC
Fantastic. Perfect. Top notch. [/sarcasm]
So, in light of problems being fixed as they should be, the new issue is with what to replace the Kaiser?
Where oh where is the M8??
What they basically said is that "yea, we know there is no hardware acceleration, but if you really want it you are going to have to give us even more money by buying our next gen handset, bc we aren't fixing it in this one".
I used to rave about my 8125 to everyone. It's too bad HTC is taking the position they are. Never again will I buy a product from HTC or recommend them to anyone else. My next handset will be from i-mate.
yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard
Okay, so whos up for a nice class action lawsuit? I'm totally willing to try running HTC into the ground with one.
ericc191 said:
yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i-mate just annoced last week that they are going back to HTC as the ODM of their phones. I-mate had tried (or was trying with) some other ODMs and it didn't pan out, so they are going back to HTC. If you don't want HTC, then don't buy any future i-mates either....
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/17/palm-i-mate-others-moving-manufacturing-contracts-back-to-htc/
I think we now need a sticky thread stating "Dont buy HTC products unless you've had your brain removed"
Certainly depending upon who commented to Engadget, we dont know how seriously to take this. But it does look bleak
We all know the existing drivers suck, the phone is buggy
and more to the point for a "premium" product, it doesnt fulfill some functions its predecessors could (its slower than my 3 yr old Wizard at scrolling, camera and opening/closing)
The standard, 'we already got your money response'...
Maybe it would be prudent for a written complaint to the carriers now, if they blow this off on this handset, what makes you think there won't be anything wrong with the next? Maybe they are making a promise on the next? Any takers?
?Glitch
ericc191 said:
yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That they do. they are actually releasing a kaiser killer very soon - the Ultimate 9502
It uses the exact same chipset as the Kaiser, but I'm guessing it has drivers for hardware acceleration too. It has the same specs as the kaiser (GPS, HSDPA, etc, etc) and features a VGA screen.
Beat me to the 9502. Link - http://www.imate.com/product.aspx?product=ultimate9502
snif...
ah well, here's looking forward to the
toshiba g920
http://www.slashphone.com/111/9012.html
or the imate 9502
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2007/10/imate_9502_handson.html
or whenever the he77 apple gets a 3g stick out of their a$$.
smittyofdhs said:
i-mate just annoced last week that they are going back to HTC as the ODM of their phones. I-mate had tried (or was trying with) some other ODMs and it didn't pan out, so they are going back to HTC. If you don't want HTC, then don't buy any future i-mates either....
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/17/palm-i-mate-others-moving-manufacturing-contracts-back-to-htc/
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Click to collapse
ah, craptastic.
well, maybe the linux-palm? or go retro and ditch the convergence altogether?
" In response to recent customer complaints about poor video performance on HTC devices based on the latest Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipsets, HTC is providing the following statement.
HTC is committed to delivering a portfolio of devices that offer a wide variety of communication, connectivity and entertainment functionality. HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI’s Imageon video acceleration hardware.
HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smart phones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats.
HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support. "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this whole statement is very ambiguous and does not state that support for imageon drivers aren't possible on current devices. i think its a pr statement and doesn't reflect what their software team is doing. its very opened ended and we could have support for acceleration but we couldn't as well. this statement doesn't tell us that.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361580
So htc said that the devices with the latest qualcomm chipsets would have 3d acceleration, but they dont. Has anyone pointed this out before. Im not a tytn ii owner, but ive been following the news, since i wanted one for myself.
But, is this false advertising, saying it will have hardware acceleration and then not giving it, and saying it will never be given in an update.
I think the 9502 is where im going too, we just need a forum on XDA for it.
Rory
Back to palm for me!!!
Guilf said:
Beat me to the 9502. Link - http://www.imate.com/product.aspx?product=ultimate9502
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if the keyboard is comfortable.
Also, let's say I purchase this phone in March. Would HTC get any of that profit?
I agree with BlueCop, and why is everyone getting so worked up about this? Where there's a demand, drivers will follow - their source is just unclear at the moment.
I have been waiting for flash since I had a g1. Adobe took so long that now html5 is on the horizon. As an embedded implementation html5 is more power savvy so on mobile devices its hugely attractive. I haven't even had flash yet but already I want html5, I mean my phones battery life is probably the main point of complaint so naturally I want html5 instead of flash which is a plug in. This article is pretty informative and it appears browsers essentially use one of two codecs to implement html5 video. Steve jobs says there are patent issues that need to be ironed out for a single codec to be adopted them html5 can be used by all.
So is the codec issue really the main hurdle? Because i don't post much but I read a lot and the impression I got from xda was that html is far far off. This article makes me think it could be broadly available within the next year or so....
EDIT: ok I get an error message that new members can't post links so just try to imagine the article referenced throughout my post...just concentrate really super hard I'm sure it'll work.
AndroidPerson said:
I have been waiting for flash since I had a g1. Adobe took so long that now html5 is on the horizon. As an embedded implementation html5 is more power savvy so on mobile devices its hugely attractive. I haven't even had flash yet but already I want html5, I mean my phones battery life is probably the main point of complaint so naturally I want html5 instead of flash which is a plug in. This article is pretty informative and it appears browsers essentially use one of two codecs to implement html5 video. Steve jobs says there are patent issues that need to be ironed out for a single codec to be adopted them html5 can be used by all.
So is the codec issue really the main hurdle? Because i don't post much but I read a lot and the impression I got from xda was that html is far far off. This article makes me think it could be broadly available within the next year or so...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doesn't the Nexus already support HTML5?
From what I understand no. But I think the new Skyfire browser converts flash content to html5 so it can be played- I may be way way way off
HTML5 is going to be a STANDARD around year 2022 (check it yourself). If you think your phone will still be relevant...
Also, read some performance comparisons. Currently Flash outdoes HTML5 about 20 to 1 in performance, and given the nature of both, if it's likely to change - that would probably be in favor of Flash in the near future.
Flash is very broadly used, and it's not likely to change any time soon.
There is no difference in battery use by a piece of SW that was coded by a browser team vs a piece of SW that was coded by any other team. I fail to see, how do you compare battery usage, not knowing the implementation.
Maybe you should read some more articles.
If Flash is using H264 as well, why is it any less of a problem patent/licencing wise? Just because you use flash video playback on your website, doesn't mean the MPEG-LA licencing fees are gone.
If the browser is capable of playing H264 without a middle man plugin, why is that undesirable? The video tag in HTML is no different than the image tag and there is nothing in the specs saying what type of image formats are allowed either. Anyone remember the patent problems associated with GIF? This is now new ground we are breaking.
People need to forget about the whole Jobs vs Adobe cat fight and recognize that improving the HTML standard is good for everyone! I just can't understand why people all of a sudden are against it. Idiotic mod mentality I guess.
Who said anything about html improvement? Yes, it'll be great (maybe not so great, depends on many things), but currenty it represents a piece of very underdeveloped something, and it's not going to change very soon, if the standard developers are credible enough source. So the discussion doesn't have much ground...
My understanding of the performance differences in terms of battery usage are that by utilizing hardware decoding (H.264) versus software decoding (via browser plug-in), you gain an order of magnitude of performance improvement and a significant reduction in power consumption because the decoding happens with less overhead and less components involved. I could be way off on this, and I'll be damned if I have the links at my fingertips to back this up, but it is the culmination of what I've heard on the performance side of things.
I'd say Apple shot themselves in the face for not supporting Flash (at least in the short term). I could understand it if HTML5 was standardized and shown to be superior for the purposes proposed, but at this point, I think its a little too early to say "FU Adobe". But then again, the Cult of Mac won't question the Jobsian edict, and will blindly follow him off a cliff if so commanded, so I doubt it will impact their sales numbers of iPhone 4G.
Browser plugin is just another piece of SW, and it can utilize any system resources given to it - including hw optimizations. Creating a browser embedding option doesn't make the browser render it hw-assisted, and using external renderer doesn't make it sw. These things are not related in any way, and so is the battery life argument's relevance (none).
http://www.gizmodo.com/5490205/html5-vs-flash-the-video-benchmark-deathmatch
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...eat_flash_surprising_results_of_new_tests.php
http://www.blackcj.com/blog/2010/04/29/simple-animation-performance-flash-vs-html5/
The point is: there is no right and wrong, but as it is currently with browsers - adding even more fragmentation will do mostly harm. Which is currently being done, for corporate reasons that don't care about end users.
To answer the OP, no the "codec dichotomy" will not be a major hurdle to HTML because all browsers except IE have already implemented the video tag at least, and even IE will be up to speed by the next version. That was the first part of HTML5 that everyone implemented, so I really don't think it was a hurdle for anyone.
Once IE9 comes out there wont be any browsers left that don't support the video tag, and the tag itself will be a public specification. Can anyone argue why that's bad?
Yes, it's very easy. Here's the browser usage distibution:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Let's say, ALL IE8 users migrate to IE9 (not going to happen). Still there are IE6 and IE7 users out there, representing 6 times the count of Safari users (the only ones that actually benefit from HTML5, having no Flash HW acceleration support - on any other platform, Flash is more efficient both in CPU usage and in scripting, as noted in previously linked articles). Those users aren't going to receive any video tags in their browsers, and they're not going to run and change their browsers. And that even before mentioning that the other browsers also have versions, and not everybody's running the latest and the greatest. So, to neglect 17% of the Web users? Not going to happen.
Now, to an even bigger problem. Mozilla doesn't want to implement H.264 codec support with HW acceleration or at all : http://css.dzone.com/articles/mozilla-reignites-html5-video. So what will be the result? Disastrous for over 50% of the better browsers out there, and beneficial only to - yes, right - Microsoft and Apple. Or, in turn, will require even more fragmentation in web site building, and IE6-like effect again: http://www.osnews.com/story/23031/Mozilla_Stick_to_Your_Ideals_Shun_H264/page2/
And, the newer Flash will come out, more efficient by far on Windows and actually everywhere but on Macs (which means, <4% of the browsers will suffer), with much more capabilities supported than HTML5 will support in the following years (it goes way beyond video tags). So, a big part of the Web will embrace the newer and more powerful Flash, and screw those <4%. Those that will want to make their site experience good for all the browsers, will be screwed even more than they are today.
Lack of one appropriate and 100% accepted standard creates havoc and doesn't help making the Web better. Imagine the situation where you would plug in USB device and wouldn't know, what to expect from the computer, since USB wouldn't be a strict standard.
Maybe the standard will position itself in some distant future, maybe not. But on the way there, things will be worse before they will be better. And nobody promised they would be better eventually, because of how things look right now.
Here's an excellent article from a developer, that explains everything much better than I tried to:
http://richardleggett.co.uk/blog/index.php/2010/02/01/the-world-is-moving-to-html5
The ending explains what I've been trying to say:
"I can’t wait till we get through this next transitionary period, with web designers having to spend twice the effort providing Flash fallbacks to video, companies encoding and hosting their videos twice for Firefox, licenses and royalties for h264, this will be another messy, frustrating time for web users and progress may slow, but I can’t see a way around it."
If your argument is that IE6/IE7/IE8 users aren't going to upgrade to IE9 then the hurdle is users willingness to upgrade to newer software rather than a codec problem, isn't it?
Good for Mozilla to take a stand against MPEG-LA, but that still doesn't change the fact that their browser has HTML5 support (including the video tag) already, so clearly they aren't opposed to HTML5 video either. H.264 is the going to be the standard and Mozilla isn't going to win this fight, and I'm sure they recognize that at some point they will have to just suck it up and hook into the video libraries installed on the system through stuff like gstreamer on linux and the Windows and OS X equivalents. They don't need to provide the decoding directly.
So what if Flash 10.1 on Windows is currently more efficient based on armchair benchmarkers measuring CPU usage reported in Task Manager. What happens in year or two from now when they aren't the best and once again Adobe let's the flash plugin stagnate? And what about platforms other than Windows? What if I want to make my own OS with my own web browser and Adobe doesn't feel the need to port Flash to my system? Why on earth would anyone feel like it's a good idea to put a large chunk of the web into the hands of one company with a track record of poor support?
I don't understand why Flash solves the issues raised by Mozilla. It uses H.264 as well, so the patent and licencing issues remain the same and consumers still get stuck using that codec! Why is it that Mozilla is unwilling to use a system video codec library, but a Flash plugin is OK? They are just being difficult.
No, they aren't. Flash is external, Flash is commercial product distributed for free, including commercial licenses that it pays for, while Mozilla is open-source and open-source only. And Mozilla accounts for almost 50% of browsers, the hell they can make a stand, and they are doing just that, and they'll more likely force codec duplicity in any video than bend. Please read the articles before we actually debate anything, understand that Flash now is providing 1000 times more 10 times better than HTML5 will provide in 5 years (that much for "armchair benchmarkers", the whole technology behind Flash is light years ahead of HTML5 development schedule), and see that the world isn't changing to any better place. Adobe isn't there because someone forced it there, it's there because it provided what the Web needed better and more consistent than any other.
Plus, let me guess, who will make the best HTML5 developer tools when it actually will be worth anything?
Hmm... Sounds like Adobe.
Why? Because they have the best grounds for it.
I've said from the beginning that the codec problem isn't THE problem. The hurdle is HTML5 being incomplete, poor-performing, nowhere near evolutionary, much less revolutionary, and not providing anything useful but complication. And with that, unfortunately, it has enough corporate interests behind it to get pushed to further screw the Web for developers and users alike. So we might as well get ready for it. Oh well, the good news about it is that it makes Flash improve.
With that, I humbly surrender this thread, leaving enough links for people to read and think about, and go try to stuff some more apps into my Nexus.
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
by radiation I assume you mean the head tumors
RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rick,
To answer your question - why so much work occurs with Android, I would like to take the liberty of rephrasing the question - why so much work occurs with Android phones? There isnt one correct answer for this.
You are correct in saying that carriers and service providers like to cripple the phone before they hand it over to the consumer. So when you buy the phone you really are not using these wonderful pieces of technology to their fullest extent. Thanks to our developers here at XDA because of whom we can in reality free the phones that we paid much moolah for, so that we maybe able to use all of the fones features that have been designed to work in conjunction with the wonderful Android OS.
Secondly, the reason why so much work goes into the phones and development to improve the functionality of the phone is because that is what Android has been designed for. Consumer can customize the phone to their liking and does not have to get stuck with the proprietary, grid like systems like the ones iphone has. Phone manufacturers, and not just Samsung, obviously design the phones software in such a way so that there is always room for improvement. They bet their dollar on the fact that an average consumer will eventually buy a newer product when its released and marketed in the future. There is always something lacking in the product that is in the market right now and that is where all this work comes into play.
Now, whether you shud buy a samsung captivate or not and what the time requirement is, is totally dependent on what you want to use the phone for and what kind of functionality you would like to get out of it.
From what you said that ur not a person who wud like to spend a lot of time modifying or playing around with your phone, you wud still like the captivate. Samsung Captivate is a very nice phone overall. Its got almost everything that you cud want in a phone. In regards to apps included with the phone, you've got a decent selection along with loads of bloatware.... If there is anything missing you can easily find it on the android market.
If you're expecting that your GPS would work right out of the box, then the answer is, maybe - maybe not. and its not android's fault, its a samsung issue. There are multiple fixes for the GPS that you can find on the forum, that being said, if you plan on utilizing those fixes, like you said not only will you void your warranty but you alone will be venturing into that experiment on your phone and dev will not be responsible for any damage that may or may not happen to your phone. But then again no guts, no glory.
So all in all, if you do end up getting the captivate, i dont think you'll be utterly disappointed, but at the same time i dont think you'll be able to sit back either when you see all these new developments posted here.
Hopefully i helped you a little and if i said too much then i apologize.
I welcome any senior member of the forum to correct me if im wrong and/or make any additions to what ive said above..
happy forumming....
My brother has a Samsung focus. It's buggy as hell, completely counter intuitive, and incomplete. Theres also no apps at all. He has like 3 different crappy youtube apps and sound boards.
And there's no CM7 to one day fix it.
Sent from my Captivate.
anandsamuel,
An excellent response; truly what I was looking for to understand the issues involved regarding Android and SmartPhones. You did not say too much.
I guess I need to start reading so I understand how to root a Captivate!
Rick
Also, that font is irritating to read.
RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok lets slow you down there. first android is linux BASED not linux. there is no need to worry about OS/ device compatibility. the most interaction between the phone and PC are just file copying like through a usb thumb drive.
the next part regarding carriers/updates/samsung. you answered yourself, kinda, and backwards. Samsung didnt blow it.
Google android updates as much as any software does - to make things better.
they release to manufacturers so they can make it work with their hardware.
Samsung released on time, BUT TO THE CARRIERS.
the carriers then take what samsung gave them and add their carrier specific settings (APN ect) and applications (bloatware).
ATT blew the update timeline.
Sometimes manufacturers release their finished product as "source code" untouched by carriers.
the long process is necessary in each step to (attempt) to make a perfect software package that will work with each phone/carrier out of the box for the end user. so it is unfair to say "born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones"
XDA works off of source codes and carrier releases to make our custom updates.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are ways to return your phone without them knowing what you did. dont worry too much about your "voided" warranty.
before i felt comfortable flashing I took about 3 days reading my A$$ off! and currently im off on workers comp. so that was 3 FULL days. even then i had issues and mistakes and my phone was out of service a few nights! but that is part of the fun.
you do not need to be the type of person to constantly update your phone to buy it. tens of thousands of people have this phone on stock firmware and it fully works. the extra effort and time that we here at XDA and cyanogenMOD do is more out of fun, and customization. Many would argue function as well, as we do sometimes fix things *better* than google/samsung/carriers. but things willl *usually* still function on stock even if on a basic level.
you only need to put in as much as you want to get out of it
so timeline,
flashing custom roms/themes PROPERLY - under a week
cutting and pasting roms frankenROMS - under a month or 2
creating - vast back knowlege of programming, ect YEAR(S)
regarding wanting to update often, not every update on XDA to your rom is necessary unles it fixes something you didnt have.
Each Android/Carrier update, would be recomended (or the XDA counterpart) as each new android version (not rom) contains the most updates/fixes. so if you were running a 2.2 (custom or stock) rom it WOULD be worth upgrading to 2.3 when available (custom or stock). but you dont NEED to update your custom rom every couple weeks when they put out their minor update on the same base rom (2.2 for eg.)
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
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no comment. best regards
Trusselo,
Excellent, thoughtful response; it helped characterize this activity further for me. My concern is now recognized (and conveyed to others...) as not wanting to be required to become a developer to make my involvement with a SmartPhone constructive. Samsung, Android, XDA looks very good to me. As you mentioned, my reading has begun.
Yes, something is not right with my traditional Comic Sans Serif font here; it seems to compress it horizontally, but my aging eyes typically need this font.
Hey Guys Kyuubi10 here again.
I had a thought on my head and couldn't help but share to see if people have the same views as me.
I am currently disappointed with phones, tablets and computers...both on a hardware level and on a software level.
While I do see technology getting better each year I have a feeling that we are currently stuck in a cycle which the major companies are unwilling to break.
Let me go deeper into detail. But to make this thought comprehensive to most people I'll try to organise it by topic.
Software:
Most developers nowadays have a huge disregard for code efficiency, and as such the advancement into making code more efficient has slowed almost to a halt. Because our devices are becoming each day more powerful, developers don't care anymore about creating applications which don't consume RAM, nor applications which are bug-free on release.
Instead buggy applications are released, which consume loads of RAM, because a future update will fix bugs, and devices will get better and have more RAM.
Thus new and inexperienced developers are not being taught the value in making an efficient program.
And this annoys me.
This brings me to Java, and Android. While I love android and what it stands for, the fact that it still runs mostly on Java annoys me. Java being hated by most developers, and being seen as a backward step in the development world is one of the major programming languages in today's world.
Google, being a great company should set up an institution made to further programming standards, and through such institution it should begin laying the foundations for a new programming language to be used with Android.and it's focus should be efficiency.
Also, highly disappointed in the progress of Windows 10. Mentioned to be a revolutionary step for Windows....yet it is simply a reworked GUI for Windows 8. It still even has the charms!!! All that was done was to make Windows store apps open within windows rather than fullscreen, and fixed a couple bugs. Oh yeh, and Cortana...which seems more like a spy than a virtual assistant. It actually refuses to work unless you let it monitor your location. Why does it need so much info?
Microsoft Edge feels like a beta testing version. I thought that they would at least incorporate some Internet Explorer functionality to Edge. But it is not even recognized as a browser by certain websites. At this moment in time IE is still better than the "revolutionary" Edge.
You are still better off with Firefox or Chrome.
On the Linux side of things...it still annoys me that there is very little support for Linux. But that has enough complaints on the internet to make its own case, I'll avoid repeating everything all over again.
Instead I'll make a complaint about Android. Why is almost no-one building an android port which works well as a desktop OS?
Why are we still limited between OSX, Windows and Linux (which has little support)?
Android has been around long enough...but very few people are making an effort in creating a fully functional version of android for desktop.
The way I see it is that Android is based on Linux...it should contribute back to the Linux community. Someone should use a well established Linux distro and mix it with Android. If their runtimes are incompatible then a technology such as CoLinux or UML could be used to run both at the same time. While also using KSM to keep RAM consumption to a minimum.
This could be well supported by Google (Now Alphabet), and the community.
Hardware:
While the development of CPUs is going strong, with Intel, Nvidia, Qualcomm and MediaTek trying to best each other...Other things aren't doing quite as well. Especially RAM. This mostly being the fault of OEMs, trying to keep costs as low as possible while squeezing every cent from their customers.
This is highly noticeable when you get Tablets which are up to 4x bigger than a phone and have the same amount of RAM as a phone. This kills multitasking abilities in our modern day devices.
We already have 64-bit CPU chips...why isn't it yet common for our devices to have 4GB+ of RAM? Asus showed that it's possible with its Zenfone 2.
How long will it take other OEMs to follow suit? The progress in this area has been too slow over the years.
Again, especially for tablets. Those things should have been reaching 6GB or more within 2014 and 2015. We definitely have the technology to do it.
While for desktop and laptops I'd love to see qualcomm and Nvidia to step up into this market with their ARM based chips.
It would be interesting to see a mix of Dedicated graphics interacting with an ARM CPU...I wonder if that is possible.
But the advantages of ARM chips are undeniable...They have even started to appear into the server market, and yet nothing for personal PCs. This is sad. The battery reduction, heat reduction achieved by such chips would make computers so much more powerful. But advances in this area are also moving foward too slowly even though we already have the technology to do it.
Security
But this annoys me most of all. The lack of focus about security.
While technology increases, it seems that no one is worrying about the security of new devices etc...
I mean, if someone stole my smartwatch all they would have to do is reset it and they could connect it to their smartphone as if I had never owned it.
That breaks my heart.
How hard is it to create a pair of symmetrical encryption keys, or 2 pairs of asymmetrical ones (if you want to be paranoid), in order to make sure that the smartwatch works only with that specific smartphone which has the correct keys.
This would also mean that if the owner wanted to use a second device to connect to their smartwatch it would be fine and safe as long as they have the correct keys. Thus improve functionality and safety with one blow.
With a whole load of smart devices being offered currently and very few of them have any security whatsoever! It annoys me deeply.
Obviously there are other security issues all of which have already been extensively discussed, such as encryption while surfing the web as default, efficiency of current standards etc...
As a solution I believe that the major tech companies in the world should get together and make a consortium with the purpose of advancing technology.
The idea is that once a new technology/protocol/standard is introduced by one of these companies then the others test it extensively, and if it is found to improve current technology they all adopt it. Because the main issue is that while many solutions exist, they are not wide spread because most companies don't use these solutions.
But if the most significant companies in the tech industry lead the way by using the new technologies, then by default the other smaller companies will follow.
But such a consortium needs to exist in order to avoid useless competition.
Competition is good when it is a force to improve current standards, not when it isolates another company's improvements by rejecting their solutions.
I agree with most of your points but I have to disagree in regards to Windows 10. As Microsoft explained it will be continuously improved. I think with Win 10 they finally listen to its customers (more than 90% satisfied). In my opinion 10 is far, faaar better then 8 and I think its developing is going into the right direction.
As this is about more than smartphones... And not about anything in specific... I'm moving this to the off topic section. :good:
Thanks,
Darth
Forum Moderator
Darth said:
As this is about more than smartphones... And not about anything in specific... I'm moving this to the off topic section. :good:
Thanks,
Darth
Forum Moderator
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Hehe, I found no thanks button. So I'll reply instead! Thank you! )
markdc said:
I agree with most of your points but I have to disagree in regards to Windows 10. As Microsoft explained it will be continuously improved. I think with Win 10 they finally listen to its customers (more than 90% satisfied). In my opinion 10 is far, faaar better then 8 and I think its developing is going into the right direction.
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True, you bring a good point. But this comes back to what I said that developers now are not worried about bringing a great product into the market, they bring an unfinished project which will then be updated as time goes on.
In fact what people are happy about Windows 10 is more due to the GUI changes. (No full screen apps, start button is back where it belongs.)
While my complaint comes more from the fact that they took a really long time to build Windows 10, and it still is Windows 8 with a different GUI. Which makes me think, what did they do with the huge time they took developing it?
Personally, I liked Windows 8... Yes it had its flaws, but it was revolutionary. It was magnitudes faster than Windows 7, albeit it had many glitches. But those were ironed out with 8.1.
It was Microsoft's first attempt at merging their mobile OS to their Desktop one. And to me this was a great idea, and improvement.
Windows 10 on the other hand doesn't feel as revolutionary as they claimed, from a technical perspective. Yes from a business perspective, it is something new, but not the software itself.
Can you see my argument?
But you are right, and I agree with you in the fact that it is moving in the right direction. I hope that Microsoft's push to mix a mobile OS and a desktop OS will inspire Google to do the same to its Android OS.
Chrome OS just doesn't truly feel like a proper OS.