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I am not so sure what all the hype about TomTom is, TomTom this and TomTom that, ugh. Could many of us be "victims" of TT's strong US advertising effort? I have been using GPS on Windows Mobile for years with my old school HTC pda2K (w/ external BT GPS). Sure I am going to get an 8925 ASAP and WAS concerned about it being locked down to some lame monthly fee BS for GPS. That tactic would certainly have been short lived thanks to the folks here at xda-developers. However on point.... have a look here ( http://www.gpspassion.com ) if you are really interested in the best GPS software. I have been using this site for some time for all the dirt, good info and comparisons on GPS hardware and especially software.
This link ( http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/NavOverview.htm ) specfically shows their comparison (quite non-commercial, thorough and unbiased, IMO) among the major GPS software providers and TT ranks pretty low. My choice back in the day was PrymeNav and I'll likely get IGuidance as soon as I get my device.
Well, that comparison is 2004, but IGuidance v4 is still the best overall navigator in my estimation, for US/Canada. I like the fact that the whole map is now a single 1.2gig file, no map switching or loading. Works well on Kaiser. GPSpassion is the best GPS site to get straight talk about all things GPS.
There may be some truth in what you say but with major suppliers there are always those who like to knock the big corporations. (Just think of Microsoft)
Tomtom is talked about so much because it generally works well and from the site you link to:
· Superb User Interface
· Fast routing/re-routing
· Good Nav info
· 3D mode is nice on the highway
and those things happen to be crucial. Now where I would agree with you is on the point they make:
· Poor routes in the US likely due to TeleAtlas map data
This does not however apply so much in Europe where the maps are at least as good as others around.
Mike
swamp2 said:
I am not so sure what all the hype about TomTom is, TomTom this and TomTom that, ugh. Could many of us be "victims" of TT's strong US advertising effort? I have been using GPS on Windows Mobile for years with my old school HTC pda2K (w/ external BT GPS). Sure I am going to get an 8925 ASAP and WAS concerned about it being locked down to some lame monthly fee BS for GPS. That tactic would certainly have been short lived thanks to the folks here at xda-developers. However on point.... have a look here ( http://www.gpspassion.com ) if you are really interested in the best GPS software. I have been using this site for some time for all the dirt, good info and comparisons on GPS hardware and especially software.
This link ( http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/NavOverview.htm ) specfically shows their comparison (quite non-commercial, thorough and unbiased, IMO) among the major GPS software providers and TT ranks pretty low. My choice back in the day was PrymeNav and I'll likely get IGuidance as soon as I get my device.
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Did you look at the date on that comparison?
It's MASSIVELY out of date. They talk about TomTom Navigator 3 for EU, 2.24 for US.
TomTom is now up to version 6 for all locations, and I can say from experience that all of the strikes listed against TomTom in that page for version 3/2.24 are no longer valid for 6. (Some were valid in 5).
Back a year ago, when I had a PalmOS device, there were fewer choices:
TomTom
Delorme Street Atlas Handheld
Mapopolis
Garmin GPS 10
I've always liked Garmin, but unfortunately they released the PalmOS version for non-Garmin-sourced PDAs a month after I bought a BT GPS receiver and Garmin will only sell their software bundled with a receiver.
Delorme SAHH is the only way to get topo maps on a handheld. Good for hiking/geocaching, SLOW for anything else. Awful UI on handheld too.
Mapopolis - Cheap, fast, decent UI
TomTom - Fast, great UI, awful map data that was pre-cut with V5.
I tried a less-than-legit version of V6 and will be ordering the full legit version. The map data in V6 is MUCH better than V5 and is not pre-cut allowing for interstate routing. The UI is great, it's *FAST*, and the map data is excellent now.
I realize there are other choices for Windows Mobile than what I had with PalmOS, but TomTom works very well for me.
RemE said:
Well, that comparison is 2004, but IGuidance v4 is still the best overall navigator in my estimation, for US/Canada. I like the fact that the whole map is now a single 1.2gig file, no map switching or loading. Works well on Kaiser. GPSpassion is the best GPS site to get straight talk about all things GPS.
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Is that what you're using now on the TyTN II?
swamp2 said:
I am not so sure what all the hype about TomTom is, TomTom this and TomTom that, ugh. Could many of us be "victims" of TT's strong US advertising effort? I have been using GPS on Windows Mobile for years with my old school HTC pda2K (w/ external BT GPS). Sure I am going to get an 8925 ASAP and WAS concerned about it being locked down to some lame monthly fee BS for GPS. That tactic would certainly have been short lived thanks to the folks here at xda-developers. However on point.... have a look here ( http://www.gpspassion.com ) if you are really interested in the best GPS software. I have been using this site for some time for all the dirt, good info and comparisons on GPS hardware and especially software.
This link ( http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/NavOverview.htm ) specfically shows their comparison (quite non-commercial, thorough and unbiased, IMO) among the major GPS software providers and TT ranks pretty low. My choice back in the day was PrymeNav and I'll likely get IGuidance as soon as I get my device.
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Are you going to post this in every forum websites? You posted the same info over at Hofo also. I think you are just advertising your program. I will still use Tomtom no matter what.
I have been using TomTom since v5 came out - originally I had a copied version, when v6 came out, I decided that I found it useful enough to buy.
I kind of regret that decision.
I see no difference between the (UK) v5 and v6 maps. In fact, I am sure there are errors in v6 that were not there in v5.
A bunch of these are inexcusable. Things that have not changed in 20 years are wrong.
The main reason I bought it was to get access to the Traffic, but that is the worst feature of all. I have to turn it off or be VERY careful about following it's advice as it usually makes things worse not better.
For example, if it thinks the motorway I am on is congested, it will route me off onto an A road that it has no traffic data for. This road is usually worse than the congested motorway. Even if it is clear, it does not seem to account for intersections, assuming you can blaze through them at max speed.
What I think is really required is some system where the map can be patched. Users should be able to suggest patches to the map - maybe some kind of 3rd party app. Also if road "weighting" (or maybe just tweak the "speed limit" on a road to weight it) could be implimented in lieu of traffic data then that would probably help.
Also, I reckon there has to be some legal mileage in forcing satnav companies to permit you buying software only. If I have paid for western europe telenav maps when I bought TomTom, why should I pay for the same thing again if I use a competitor's satnav product that also uses telenav?
The great news is that there are many choices. I own CoPilot, Destinator, Delorme, Mapopolis, PMN, iGuidance, and TomTom. TomTom's a very good app, maybe better in EU. I believe that NavTec's maps are better than TelAtlas in the US, but that's my opinion from about 12 years of use.
I like to play with these things and I don't hold any of them as sacred. For now I prefer iGuidance v4 on my Kaiser. I like the NavTec Database, I like defining hard keys for 3D/2D, North-Up etc. It's got 3 levels of 3D presentation, TONS of good POI data, map dragging/zooming, and a GUI that works really well.
I'd really like to give Garmin a go, if I could use their PPC software on the Kaiser without their stupid software lock to their bundled BT receiver.
What I look for now is the best GUI and a contiguous map, screw maploaders and piece meal map pruchases and management. The devices have the memory and 1-2 gig dedicated to this valuable function is fine with me. Map data quality today is probably a wash between TelAtlas and NavTec.
sherpa said:
Are you going to post this in every forum websites? You posted the same info over at Hofo also. I think you are just advertising your program. I will still use Tomtom no matter what.
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Might as well post it over @ the cingular forum to complete the cycle, eh?
Ugh
OK, sorry about the out of date referral. A big f-up there! I thought it looked suspiciously old but missed the tiny font with the date. The program version numbers should have been a give away as well. There are more up to date reviews of TT6 and iGuidance on some other pages and on their forums.
The points were simple and others are clearly agreeing with me here:
-TT is getting a lot of hype. I have not used it personally but I find it interesting how much folks are focused (to near obsession with it)
-There are many alternatives, and many are probably significantly better than TT in many areas
@RemE - Thanks for the unbiased input from someone who has used a ton of programs!
@avega and sherpa: I find it insulting that anyone thinks I am advertising or promoting a product I own or like. I was simply trying to help and to educate folks a bit about the options. So sorry (not) for those of you that had to read through my "useless" post on 2 forums. I just wanted to share some information - ugh...
swamp2 said:
OK, sorry about the out of date referral. A big f-up there! I thought it looked suspiciously old but missed the tiny font with the date. The program version numbers should have been a give away as well. There are more up to date reviews of TT6 and iGuidance on some other pages and on their forums.
The points were simple and others are clearly agreeing with me here:
-TT is getting a lot of hype. I have not used it personally but I find it interesting how much folks are focused (to near obsession with it)
-There are many alternatives, and many are probably significantly better than TT in many areas
@RemE - Thanks for the unbiased input from someone who has used a ton of programs!
@avega and sherpa: I find it insulting that anyone thinks I am advertising or promoting a product I own or like. I was simply trying to help and to educate folks a bit about the options. So sorry (not) for those of you that had to read through my "useless" post on 2 forums. I just wanted to share some information - ugh...
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C'mon you stated YOU havent even used TT for yourself and youre bashing it. Give me a break. This whole time Im reading through all your posts saying TT this TT that, and youve never even used it?!? I understand all the hype etc about TT is blown out of proportion, but man thats really messed up bashing on something youve never even tried. I personally dont push onto people hey you gotta get TT nothing else is better, I never said that & I dont think I will. I am aware there are other software out there that may be better or not. My point in other threads has been simply, "Hey we CAn use other software on the 8925 w/o the use of TeleNav jumpstart & if TT was the software to use @ that moment, so be it."
Wrong, wrong, wrong
avega1027 said:
C'mon you stated YOU havent even used TT for yourself and youre bashing it. Give me a break. This whole time Im reading through all your posts saying TT this TT that, and youve never even used it?!? I understand all the hype etc about TT is blown out of proportion, but man thats really messed up bashing on something youve never even tried. I personally dont push onto people hey you gotta get TT nothing else is better, I never said that & I dont think I will. I am aware there are other software out there that may be better or not. My point in other threads has been simply, "Hey we CAn use other software on the 8925 w/o the use of TeleNav jumpstart & if TT was the software to use @ that moment, so be it."
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Nothing wrong with honesty, I have never used it, period. I still don't understand the hype. Again I think some of us are victims of their cute little TV marketing ads. Can you please point out one negative or "bashing" statement I made about TT? Didn't think so.
Okay guys, we have made our points and I think if people read through the posts a pretty fair overall picture will emerge. That appears to be:
Tomtom is fine and generally works well, but there is a range of alternatives some of which may be superior (depending on your needs/preferences) to Tomtom so don't overlook these if you are buying GPS software. Part of the hype for tomtom on the Kaiser forums stems of course from the fact that the Kaiser has been bundled (for some folk) with tomtom software. Not surprising then that we're all talking about it.
Mike
My take
I personally think TomTom sucks (at least in my experience), and here's why:
- Their support is TERRIBLE. Slow to respond, usually off the mark.
- Their maps are horribly inaccurate (for me, in the midwest US).
It took multiple calls and emails to get them to help me with the RETAIL BOX (not and OEM bundle) version I bought first with my Advantage and now with the Kaiser. On the advantage, they tried to tell me I couldn't run all from the Microdrive. I later discovered I could by installing to an SD card first, and then manually copying it over.
Their interface is SLOW, and so many addresses aren't found (on supposedly the latest US Map, according to their TomTom home utility).
Just today, Garmin announced their Mobile XT software on a MicroSD card, and this is significant because previous versions of Garmin Mobile XT required the use of Garmin's GPS hardware, even if you had an integrated GPS. Now, you can FINALLY use Garmin's software with your own GPS, and I couldn't be happier.
In my personal opinion, Garmin's PDA software (and especially their all-in-one units) are VASTLY SUPERIOR to TomTom, at least here in the US, based on my own extensive experiences.
-Rob
rtsrob,
That could be true, at least in US Because for me, TomTom is still the best and I live in Europe. And have no problem with the interface/speed/etc.
What BS! I just don't get Garmin, why the microSD? Last thing I want to do is pull memory cards just to navigate. I use a 6gig now and it's staying put in my device, many apps need the card so it makes no sense to use a seperate card. This is why I didn't bother with iGo same issue, sheesh.
Regarding support, iGuidance doesn't do much either, when we flashed WM6 to Hermes, iNAV could not/would not believe my detailed description about WM6pro being a standard PPC OS, they kept saying "sorry we don't support WM6, it's only for smart phones, they are not touch screens". Fortunately the S/W just works and GPSpassion has some very sharp folks that have tweaks that can be applied to iGuidance to make some changes.
RemE said:
What BS! I just don't get Garmin, why the microSD?
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Two words: "Copy Protection"
Richard
Like I said, BS, there's plenty of software only copy protection schemes that don't lock the product to a memory card or BT dongle...
RemE said:
Like I said, BS, there's plenty of software only copy protection schemes that don't lock the product to a memory card or BT dongle...
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You asked why, not for an opinion on whether copy protection is "BS" or not. I bought Mapopolis in part due to their lack of copy protection. Note the existence of keygens for TomTom and not for Garmin and consider whether that's "BS" or not - particularly from the perspective of the software vendor.
Richard
Obviously you're right, that's why TomTom is a bit player, Right? All that rampant piracy. I don't copy software, I like to believe that most people will pay a fair price for a good product, seems to be working for most vendors. I'd love to try Garmin's and iGo's products, but never will till they take a look outside their shells.
Point taken, nuff said.
There is a bit of uncomfortable and uneasy feeling with the advent of a GPS device on my hip, not that I really have anything to worry about, but the US was built on Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Seems that we should remove the Liberty part of that as of late, but damnit, if they want to watch me and invade my privacy, it should NOT be on my dime, further more, I’d like to think that the pics I take of the latest female won’t be observed by an assigned GMAN torn from his family and in need of whacking himself off.…
Anyway, I saw a Treo 750 that had a privacy tab on the GPS applet, (obviously privacy from carrier from data provided by BT GPS device, knowing they distribute the same binary, this should be reproducible on our HTC devices, knowing we run Windoze, and I haven’t seen anything to monitor what the system console has been doing, and to top that off, there is periods with my Tilt that the interface is unresponsive, and I am not the only one that has had a problem with the Google maps app connecting to com4. So anyone out there wonder what MY device is doing with MY processor ticks besides me?
Anyone out here that has been looking into the reg entries for the GPS applet?
?Glitch
ummm what?
the GPS is not active unless you're using a GPS program like TeleNav, Google Maps, Windows Live Maps, TomTom Navigator etc.
and how is anyone going view pics that you take with your phone without your knowledge? GPS is only for position information, data cant be transferred by GPS. and who the hell is watching you anyways? unless youre on the FBI's most wanted list or something no one cares or wants to know where you are or what you are doing.
geez, paranoid much?
oh, and GPS or not, you can be tracked just by having a cell phone on you. its call triangulation using cell towers. hows that for paranoia.
All approved cell tracking apps have to send the device a text every few days confirming that it is being tracked (to avoid spouses tracking their other halfs)...
But that doesn't mean that people aren't hacking them and developing unapproved ones...
You knew this already when you bought your phone. And who is watching you anyway. And if it is really neccesery you provider can track you by in and outgoing phone calls to see where you were at a certain time. So your privacy was gone as soon as you got your first mobile phone.
tinfoil hat?
tripitaka said:
tinfoil hat?
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I was thinking Thorazine.
dscline said:
I was thinking Thorazine.
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Keep telling yourself that while at&t has created their own programming language to parse the data they compile on everyone and turn it over to the spooks. Keep up with the EFF as of late? Ever wonder what a gov't might be capable of if held ABOVE the law? What about an evident relationship between big biz and a gov't capable of these ethics, or lack there of... Really think about it, how long will it be before state gov't gets ahold of the data and begins to issue speeding tickets based on GPS data gleened from our devices, do you think it would be that difficult for the radio to open com4 and collect data without blinking the orange light?
And as for my rant, yes I knew I purchased a device with GPS, but I didn't purchase a device for the spooks, it is my processor, my processor ticks, my OS, my hardware, if I bought the spooks a device I'd have sent it to them, if they want to use my device in the interest of surveillance, then they should pay me for my system resources... No free lunch, understand?
?Glitch said:
And as for my rant, yes I knew I purchased a device with GPS, but I didn't purchase a device for the spooks, it is my processor, my processor ticks, my OS, my hardware, if I bought the spooks a device I'd have sent it to them, if they want to use my device in the interest of surveillance, then they should pay me for my system resources... No free lunch, understand?
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And as the guys said, the GPS has nothing to do with anyone being able to track you (other than potentially being slightly more accurate). If you are seriously worried about all of the above, then buy an old mine (in a false name) and live down it.
Personally, I have no plans to commit terrorist attrocities or criminal activity, so I don't mind if Police/Government could track me (or more importantly suspected terrorists/criminals) if they wanted to.
Personally I expect they'll stick to good old network triangulation - it's cheaper, it works with any mobile, and there's literally no way you'd ever know "they" were doing it
Sleep tight now...
Just send a letter to President Bush and Congress thanking them for the good 'ol Patriot Act that was passed some years back...
?Glitch said:
Keep telling yourself that while at&t has created their own programming language to parse the data they compile on everyone and turn it over to the spooks. Keep up with the EFF as of late? Ever wonder what a gov't might be capable of if held ABOVE the law? What about an evident relationship between big biz and a gov't capable of these ethics, or lack there of... Really think about it, how long will it be before state gov't gets ahold of the data and begins to issue speeding tickets based on GPS data gleened from our devices, do you think it would be that difficult for the radio to open com4 and collect data without blinking the orange light?
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First of all, it was a joke. Get a sense of humor. Secondly, if you do believe everything you type, then you should not expect such things to be so easily circumventable as changing a few reg keys. If you want to change the way things are headed, fight with your vote, and with activism, not with "hey, I bought this device because I think it's cool, even if the potential is there for it's capabilities to be used against me... anyone have any easy fixes?"
No matter what is possible, the fact remains that there are billions of civilians, compared to a relatively small number of people who could potentially have access to such data. If you have done nothing huge to draw significant "national security" type attention to yourself (which I have to assume you haven't, posting on on public board and all), the chances are minuscule that anyone who could invade your privacy has any interest in doing so.
"Blocking access" to a single phone that no one is even going to try to access isn't going to solve anything. And if we get to the point where our phones DO get used for the purposes you describe, it's too late. At this point, you're better off focusing your energies on a political front rather than a technological one.
I don't think the concern is the government. Now, electronic tracking data is becoming an issue in civil legal proceedings (lawsuits, contested divorces, etc.) - "EZ-Pass" toll data is one example, and auto-tracking systems are another.
I'm personally not too worried about this, but I can see why some law-abiding people might be concerned.
no one has really tweaked the Kaiser. I was browsing a website (hackaday).com and they do some crazy out of this world things. How come no one has figured out a way to put an IRDA port on a Kaiser or something really useful. I have steady hands and I'm good at opening stuff. Would that be possible to incorporate the IRDA port of lets say an Ipaq phone and install it in the Kaiser? I think this phone would be bad ass if I could control everything in my house with my phone. Just wondering if it was possible or if any of you guys were members of that website. What do you guys think.
I mean for gods sake. They turned a freaking phone into a TAZER. How freaking cool is that.
gqstatus0685 said:
no one has really tweaked the Kaiser. I was browsing a website (hackaday).com and they do some crazy out of this world things. How come no one has figured out a way to put an IRDA port on a Kaiser or something really useful. I have steady hands and I'm good at opening stuff. Would that be possible to incorporate the IRDA port of lets say an Ipaq phone and install it in the Kaiser? I think this phone would be bad ass if I could control everything in my house with my phone. Just wondering if it was possible or if any of you guys were members of that website. What do you guys think.
I mean for gods sake. They turned a freaking phone into a TAZER. How freaking cool is that.
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You know you are right!
I have a couple of jet skis - but it would be cool if I could say - "hey - I am out at the lake and forgot my jet skis - can I use my Kaiser for that?"
Can anyone here help me put a motor on the Tilt with an impeller and I guess I will need a seat?
Oh - and now that it is a little larger - I will need someone to make a holder for me as well? (it will have to fit on my belt by the way.)
gqstatus0685 said:
no one has really tweaked the Kaiser. I was browsing a website (hackaday).com and they do some crazy out of this world things. How come no one has figured out a way to put an IRDA port on a Kaiser or something really useful. I have steady hands and I'm good at opening stuff. Would that be possible to incorporate the IRDA port of lets say an Ipaq phone and install it in the Kaiser? I think this phone would be bad ass if I could control everything in my house with my phone. Just wondering if it was possible or if any of you guys were members of that website. What do you guys think.
I mean for gods sake. They turned a freaking phone into a TAZER. How freaking cool is that.
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Haven't we done this before?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=395334
whk said:
You know you are right!
I have a couple of jet skis - but it would be cool if I could say - "hey - I am out at the lake and forgot my jet skis - can I use my Kaiser for that?"
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Doesn't dutty have a CAB for that (and oldie, but a goodie)
Dave
Ok I am aware of the thread opened for the IRDA port. I'm just saying no one has attempted to tweak a Kaiser.
One the website they turned an Xbox 360 into a Laptop, Wii as a Laptop, etc. The point I'm trying to make is that no one has attempted to play around with the inner workings.
*** Second Post, thanks for your sarcasm but it was pointless. Check out the website and you'll see what I'm talking about. There are people with amazing talent on that site.***
gqstatus0685 said:
*** Second Post, thanks for your sarcasm but it was pointless. Check out the website and you'll see what I'm talking about. There are people with amazing talent on that site.***
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You are welcome - and everything does not have to have a point does it? If so the point was you can strap a bill on a goat but that does not make it a duck!
If you need the IRDA functionality - rather than take it apart - void any chance of a warranty - strap on a port wire it up - have additional issues - why not actually purchase a phone/unit with an IRDA port on it?
Re: there are people with amazing talent on that site -yup - over here our guys are toads - don't got a lick a sense between em.
Several french fries short of a happy meal - the lot of us.
Well - that sums up my entertainment for the morning!
Bill
Anyway..... any other input from other people.
Bill why would I buy another phone if I like this one. That's like people buying a Honda and customizing it to their liking. (adding rims, spoiler, turbo tint, blah blah blah etc) They could buy Mugen Honda which has all that stuff combined but they'd rather prefer the satisfaction of doing it themselves. Catch my flow? I like my phone and want to mess around with it more that's all I was saying. I don't see anyone laughing so obviously either you are not funny or nobody cares what you have to say.
gqstatus0685 said:
Ok I am aware of the thread opened for the IRDA port. I'm just saying no one has attempted to tweak a Kaiser.
One the website they turned an Xbox 360 into a Laptop, Wii as a Laptop, etc. The point I'm trying to make is that no one has attempted to play around with the inner workings.
*** Second Post, thanks for your sarcasm but it was pointless. Check out the website and you'll see what I'm talking about. There are people with amazing talent on that site.***
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I personally have always thought of this site as great (or simple) minds getting together to improve the functionality of the phone not to see if we can turn our phones into something that no longer resembles a phone.With all the wild cooking and software development the basic premise of will it make it a better phone has always held.
How would this even work there is no hardware for it. It doesnt make any sense you think someone is going to engineer a new board and electronics for you ? If anyone had that kind of talent they wouldent be waisting it for free.
OK check out hackaday. THey have mad talent and they post instructions on how to do it yourself. So yes they do it for free most of the time.
at first i had a n95 which did every thing but still i lusted of the htc tytn2 keyboard.i payed 700 us for my tytn2 and by the second day i started having regrets.iv never met a phone that requires so much patches and the driver issue is just ridiculous.this was my first and only wm phone i'll ever buy.htc has left me feeling that all wm devices are crap(although i no better).so am packing up my tytn 2 in a box and buying a n95 8gb ..I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER HTC PHONE AGAIN..
I lolled, you just registered here to tell that ?
and you didn`t even search google before buying Kaiser ?
lol ._.
That's strange. I've had my TyTN II since January this year and no problems at all. This is my second WM device and I will never go back to Symbian.....EVER.
No driver issues, etc etc etc. But then again, I don't need live feeds from Mars.
Oh, and my phone didn't need any "patches" either.
MACkjam said:
That's strange. I've had my TyTN II since January this year and no problems at all. This is my second WM device and I will never go back to Symbian.....EVER.
No driver issues, etc etc etc. But then again, I don't need live feeds from Mars.
Oh, and my phone didn't need any "patches" either.
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Same here, had my phone since January 08, had no problems what so ever..
this is my 2nd WM phone (myself being imate jamin)
never going back to symbian, they just can't be made personal...
crashsvg said:
at first i had a n95 which did every thing but still i lusted of the htc tytn2 keyboard.i payed 700 us for my tytn2 and by the second day i started having regrets.iv never met a phone that requires so much patches and the driver issue is just ridiculous.this was my first and only wm phone i'll ever buy.htc has left me feeling that all wm devices are crap(although i no better).so am packing up my tytn 2 in a box and buying a n95 8gb ..I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER HTC PHONE AGAIN..
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TyTN II is my 3rd WM device. Before that I had Nokias, Sony Ericssons, Samsungs, Motorolas, etc...and let me tell you. It terms of OS stability perhaps symbian devices are slightly better, but I must stress "slightly".
But if you count the amount of things that you can do with a WM device compared to a symbian, there's just no comparison.
There's no doubt that if you are switching from a symbian to WM, the amount of stuff that you have to learn is a lot, but it's definitely worthwhile.
I have never looked back, and quite frankly I don't think I will ever switch to Symbian again (unless something revolutionary comes up). There's a higher chance of me getting an iPhone than any Symbian powered phone.
But of course, each to his own...
I wish I could be shocked at this. But alas, I cannot. The Kaiser has been out for over 11 months now, and the so-called "driver issue" was discovered almost immediately. As an early adopter, I'll admit I was a bit angry when I first learned of the lackluster video performance, but then I realized that I bought a device that is a phone 1st, and a PMP 33rd.
I cannot, and will not, feel any pity for someone who buys a device that has been out as long as the Kaiser has, and didn't do any research on it's pros and cons beforehand.
on the contrary, after i got my n95, im not buying another symbian phone, ever. im quite happy with my kaiser
Wow....never seen a thread like this.
Like it's already been said, I don't feel sorry for you.
NotATreoFan said:
As an early adopter, I'll admit I was a bit angry when I first learned of the lackluster video performance, but then I realized that I bought a device that is a phone 1st, and a PMP 33rd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. It's a phone first. People forget that. If you want to watch movies or play games go buy a PSP!
I would rather have good working 2D drivers any day then 3D drivers.
crashsvg said:
aiv never met a phone that requires so much patches and the driver issue is just ridiculous..
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Click to collapse
What patches and drivers are you talking about? Please enlighten us!
crashsvg said:
so am packing up my tytn 2 in a box and buying a n95 8gb ..I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER HTC PHONE AGAIN..
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Click to collapse
I'll buy it from you!
Wow people seriously. I second everything NotaTreoFan and AllTheWay said.
The lack of drivers has effected my use of the device none. I also feel that you are just looking for reasons to hate your phone, because well, you like to have pity parties.
The problem with pity parties is not a lot of people show up, and those that do, don't bring gifts.
Instead of moping and crying and having a pity party, realize that mountains of resources are out there to help make it better. Instead of a pity party, plan for a victory party. Trust me you'll be a better person for it.
Also, I will buy it from you as well.
AllTheWay said:
I'll buy it from you!
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Click to collapse
No I will buy it from you! I will pay $1 more than ATW
I agree with you guys, but I have to say that it really doesn't matter... I have the Tytn 2 (obviously!) on UK Orange with WM6.1 and had the same on WM6.0 before...
I haven't had any issues that are worth worrying about. It makes me wonder if some people read about an issue and then attribute anything they don't like to it!
You just need to get used to how the phone works! To change a Kaiser for an N95 suggests some kind of misunderstanding of the operation of the Kaiser in my opinion. I have used both!
Any O/S which has as many functions as Windows Mobile will be slower than O/Ss on handsets which are more limited.
Best
S
SiJ2000 said:
I agree with you guys, but I have to say that it really doesn't matter... I have the Tytn 2 (obviously!) on UK Orange with WM6.1 and had the same on WM6.0 before...
I haven't had any issues that are worth worrying about. It makes me wonder if some people read about an issue and then attribute anything they don't like to it!
You just need to get used to how the phone works! To change a Kaiser for an N95 suggests some kind of misunderstanding of the operation of the Kaiser in my opinion. I have used both!
Any O/S which has as many functions as Windows Mobile will be slower than O/Ss on handsets which are more limited.
Best
S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I 100% agree with you. I've had my ATT Tilt since Feb. 08 and I love it. Ive only had one issue and that was my own fault, apparently the Tilt doesnt like root beer. LOL. And even then the only isssue I had was a keyboard problem. I was able to exchange it out no problems. The Tilt/TyTn II is a good phone. I still even use youtube on those days at work bored and see no problems.
I have been using WM mobiles since 2003, when orange released it's first SPV smart phone.
during past 5 years the only symbian mobile I ever had was sonyericsson P800, and I hated it. the only regret I have is that, had I found xda-developers site, sooner would of had much more fun with my handsets. And I have to thank XDA-developres and it's members for their hard work.
Kaiser is a mobile phone not a PPC although it works as PPC but it's first purpose is to work as a mobile phone.
Just remember to do a bit of research before buying your next handset.
ProudPop83 said:
I 100% agree with you. I've had my ATT Tilt since Feb. 08 and I love it. Ive only had one issue and that was my own fault, apparently the Tilt doesnt like root beer. LOL. And even then the only isssue I had was a keyboard problem. I was able to exchange it out no problems. The Tilt/TyTn II is a good phone. I still even use youtube on those days at work bored and see no problems.
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Click to collapse
No they don't like rootbeer, mine is partial to dr pepper, I've even heard that a few like coke, but never never rootbeer.
scotchua said:
No they don't like rootbeer, mine is partial to dr pepper, I've even heard that a few like coke, but never never rootbeer.
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Click to collapse
LMAO Well Im not willing to try and see what the one I have in hand now is partial to. Although it keeps saying something about sweet tea. But who knows...
ProudPop83 said:
LMAO Well Im not willing to try and see what the one I have in hand now is partial to. Although it keeps saying something about sweet tea. But who knows...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine likes rocks. I dropped mine onto my gravel driveway and it hasn't complained at all.
JimmyMcGee said:
Instead of moping and crying and having a pity party, realize that mountains of resources are out there to help make it better.
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Click to collapse
Positive thinking is the power to achive more with anything... WM is really resourceful and by time you will realize this...
pls add my name to the i want to buy a second kaiser to your list
ProudPop83 said:
LMAO Well Im not willing to try and see what the one I have in hand now is partial to. Although it keeps saying something about sweet tea. But who knows...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweet tea is delicious. My phone is quite a snob, however, and insists on imported beer.
NotATreoFan said:
Sweet tea is delicious. My phone is quite a snob, however, and insists on imported beer.
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Click to collapse
Mine really likes Shiner Bock alot.... Or Red Hook IPA.
I heard a rumor that Kaisers don't like being submerged in Castrol Syntech 10W40.
Sorry for sounding so ...angry..but this phone just cost me not only 800 bucks..but 1700 dollars round trip to the place i got it from...so please understand my point of view
Ok so since no one answered my question and my problem with my phone (phone died 5 mins after using it) Please answer me this:
Why should I even think about keeping my htc diamond (thats ofcourse if i decide to replace my current dead one)?
I have a feeling that this phone is so bugged, it should be cheaper, should have some kind of customer support, and should be in a reasonable working condition when you open up the box of this epensive phone and be able to do w/e it is advertises to do.
none of these pointers even come close to the HTC Diamond. It is expensive, Tech support is just halarious (a month to !!REPAIR!! my phone and then the return ground trip- I cant even replace it) and even then, your warranty is not 100% guarenteed, and last but not least, It does not work 100% when you open it up and get ready to use it
I bet if i buy a 350 dollars phone (lets say the LG rumer) id have a better experiance, without touch screen (omg its the endz of ze w0rldz!!!).
I understand what this phone is, or at least have an idea of what it's capable(at least I think, BECAUSE I ONLY USED IT FOR 5 MINS!!), but looking at this phone's forum section, quite a few ppl are having 1 or more issues with this phone.
Am I better off returning this piece of junk and getting something similar for cheaper? (iphone 3G i can grab it from a duty free airport for around 750 USD). Or a blackbarry bold, or the samsung touchscreen one..
seriously When I called HTC, they not only treated me like garbage, the rep sounded happy as if he has just ripped me off with a crappy phone and tried dhis best not to have me try to rma my phone ( and he succeeded, Im returning to the airport i bought this junk from and replacing it/ buying another brand)
But if I am missing something, then please tell me, what makes this phone so special ?
BTW I live in NA, so the freaking 3G for this phone, as u all know doesnt work ---> Another feature right out the ****ing window.
if you dont like it take it back. end of story. if you dont love it, you dont deserve it. buy an iphone, nothing ever goes wrong with those.
yeah i agree go buy an iphone.
it sounds as though it would suit you better
as its made for people like you.
i thought, i hoped that we got past the "whining" period. i was wrong.
in the first 2 month after diamond was out the forum was full with this kind of useless threads. this thread if not killed by a moderator is going to become a chat room where some ppl (mostly noobs) are going to add their frustration, some ppl are going to flame you (the "crazy about diamond" ones), some are going to send you to flash and tweak it (it seems that you don't like the idea) and some are going to plain and simple send you to give it back and end the drama.
in short if u are expecting 20 replays trying to convince you to keep it, you are wrong.
lol what a post.
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Keeping Diamond is not obligatory, if you don't like this phone, simply give it back and buy something you like. It's simple as that.
or perhaps they call them noobs because they seem to be incapable
of sorting out the few problems with stuff off here like the rest of us have.
this is a developers website not a site for those who just see it as a
pretty phone.
let the flame war BEGIN...
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Blazeitup123 said:
let the flame war BEGIN...
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Click to collapse
sometimes i surprise myself....i am waiting another day or two and then i'll have to say it: i told you so!
Token42 said:
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from cambridge dictionary
whiner
noun [C] DISAPPROVING
a person, especially a child, who complains or expresses dissatisfaction continually
didn't call anybody whiner on my post (whining period).
didn't call the thread opener a noob.
1. i never said diamond is perfect but this is not the place to complain about the quality of diamond. htc diamond is a htc product. whine/complain to the htc. this is a developers forum, here you'll find ppl that are continuously improving the device. what's the point of such a thread here? what's the point? we all know too well the flows of the diamond.
2. looking at my sig you can see a partial list of the devices i own. none of them was so challenging like the diamond and in my eyes that's the beauty of it.
3. because i bought one of the first diamond arrived i paid 5000 NIS/3.5=1428$! not cheap. i also wanted to return the diamond but this was in the first days of diamond. there were no cooked ROMs and no smart tweaks and advanced configurations.... i also was a noob.. i search, i asked, i got flamed, i experimented and i can say that today i have N O N E of the problems you described. only yesterday i tried 4 new ROMs. today i am settled for at least one month with swiftbl's latest. no lag on GPS, no lag on scrolling, listening some trance with the a2dp without lag or skips (using coreplayer). didn't like the htc player so f...k. it, i bought the coreplayer.
4. sometimes i think that diamond is not a device, diamond is a kit, a "do it by yourself" gadget. don't buy it if you don't have time to assembly it.
stop complaining h e r e ! not satisfied? do something! complain to htc (not here) or return the device or invest some precious time to transform yr expensive toy from the legendary frog to the handsome prince. and no, kissing it is not enough!
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Davey101 said:
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Of course this is a developer-forum, not intended for exchanging critics on a device, without wanting or excepting to solve the criticized problems. But sometimes it goes off-topic, someone complains and a so called flamewar is created. But even a flamewar is nothing else but a discussion in a discussion-forum. I see no problem in this behavour of forums.
I think responsible people on the manufacturer-side are aware of common problems, discussed in forums like this. Because they are owning such a device by their selfs, or they are interested in, because it's their job. So perhaps critizising really anoying issues can't be done to an extend, high enough.
It's true - devices like PDA's can't be perfect, they are too complicated. But even a mixer is too complicated to be perfect.
When I buy a mixer and it's somewhat too loud or a little weak, I can say: "Hey its not what I'm expected, but it's OK for the money." But when I have to switch the mixer on 3 minutes before I want to use it, cause it has a power-on lag, or if it allways looses the mixing attachment I say its bull****.
When I buy a top-class PDA promoted for GPS, PIM and MP3 and I can do nothing of it without big problems, I think also it's bull****.
OK - one could say "Its not a problem for all, it's only 50% with GPS-lag" - hey that makes me much more enthusastic to try other htc-products.
As someone allready suggested, I can simply buy another pda - yes I can can and will, but thats a reason not to complain about a product I've bought?
fhsieh said:
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st rule before you buy something
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
liamhere said:
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Token42 said:
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
KukurikU said:
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+.
Couldn't put it in a better way!
Coming back to the actual Diamond "problems" mentioned:
Even with the first couple of original HTC roms, I never experienced any GPS lag, mp3 lag etc etc. Only the start-up lag is rather annoying, but hey... how fast does your Windows Vista PC boot up?
Please try to compare Diamond's GPS next to an N95, and post the results on accuracy and lag (I have done so!).
Finally, I would agree with "liamhere"'s statement of "P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.", but I would like to add:
Make sure it's NOT an N series... and don't buy it (actually never buy ANYTHING expensive)from somewhere so far away, unless is online, so FedEx, DHL or whoever, can come to the rescue
liamhere said:
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, got this wrong.
If most people are happy with their diamond and doesn't encounter any of the known problems its fine and nice. Personaly I really start to get a little bit angry about myself, to have spent so much money for it.
I've bought this device not for the phone-functionality but as a pda and this was a bad bad decission. Not only because of flaws I was not aware of when I've bought it but because of limitations I knew of. I was only to impatient to wait for other models and do enough research.
I don't think HTC will spent many resources on bugfixing for example the gps-lag, cause their are so many phones of them in development and they have allready made their deal with the diamond.
So I return to my beloved Loox and use the diamond really only as a phone, better than nothing.