Database Develop

Leaving TyTN II & leaving HTC FOREVER

Hi Guys,
This is probably the best PDA forum. HTC should pay all you guys for creating this great forum for its overrated mobile.
TyTN II was the most $ I have ever spent on a mobile. With the price I pay, I could get a decent dual core laptop. But I wanted all things in one gadget and the news on TyTN II prior to its launch have made this mobile my dream mobile.
I was weary of the slow CPU speed. But after reading Qualcomm's specification of its CPU, that it is a dual core chip, I forced myself to believe that it will be faster than my old PDA that runs on Intel PXA270, 416MHZ. Unfortunately, I was mislead.
Sure, the TyTN II is stable, but I need to wait for 1-2 secs for it to register my command and than to react is totally not acceptable, especially I paid so much $ for it.
As for the Video, the first time I experienced, at best, the still moving pictures from an avi file had caused me great concern that my TyTn II is faulty. But now we all know that that phone is working under perfectly fine condition. Seriously, who has time to encode avi file down so that it can be viewed on TyTn II. I brought this phone to assist me and make my life more convenient, not the opposite.
So finally, I am trading in this phone at 64% of its original price (I have only used this phone for 5 months) for either Asus P750 or Gsmart MS800. I have ordered both of these new phones with the store for inspection and to make my final decision.
I am also frustrated with its inability to record telephone calls, which is one of necessary function for my job. I have spoken to a HTC sales and he told me that it is for privacy reason that they have make such a restriction. This is a load of BS. All large phone companies such as Nokia, SE, LG, and Moto have such a function.
Hope that I will also be able to find a native forum as good as this for Asus P750 or Gsmart MS800.
AND, I will never (during my time on earth) buy another HTC phone again... and I will certainly spread the word to all my friends not to buy any HTC phone either. HTC is good at make its first time customer its last time customer.
Guys, seriously, do you still believe that there is hope for the video driver or video improvement for HTC???

Get a life. Good luck with your new phone. Maybe they will have the video drivers you are looking for. We need to make a Sub Forum called "People Who ***** About HTC Products and Video Drivers"

goodbye, enjoy your new phone
honestly if anyone is tired of their kaiser, pls just sell it and leave, no need to whine about it or say goodbye. we really wont miss you at all.
all of us still holding on to our kaisers may be stupid from ur point of view, but we are all trying to make it work, hence the name xda-developers, not xda-whiners. if you dont like ur kaiser, sure you are entitled to your opinion, but ppl who choose to stay, dont really care, so just sell of your phone, piss off, and dont bother anyone. we dont really care to know what you feel about your device

well thx for telling us how u feel but we dont really care...its not like we're gonna follow suit cuz of u...research or try it out before u spend "so much $" on it...and whether new drivers are coming...who knows maybe or maybe not...this phone being not suitable to u doesnt mean it sucks or its bad in any way...just go get ur phone which suits u best...and live on

well... what more can I say..?
bye bye...

FYI, it's 'wary', not 'weary'. Good luck.

Seems like you want someone to sympathize. Pick one of the following responses:
1. Awww poor baby. There there.
2. I'll join you in abandoning HTC products.
(disclaimer: meh)

Good luck. and hope you can find the right PDA.

Tell it Wayne...
One whiner less....
This is nothing personal, but people are tired of new whining threads... plz just go and leave us alone with the whining.
If your friends belive the $ you talk it's their problem. Noone here cares if your friends like HTC or not. It doesn't matter for most if HTC sales some phones less or not. I still dont geht the point of such threads...
U think HTC will read this? U think it gets better if you buy a new one? Sry but every phones has it's issues... everything... here it is a video driver, other phones als cheaply manufactured, some have other bugs. There is nothing perfect. So wake up! The world is unfair.

Guys I am sorry but there is someone who tells us what he is doing now.
I believe HTC will never release the new drivers and at least they should see that people are selling the device now and will buy other brand in the future.
HP h4150 (best device I ever had)
Magican (it was fantastic but not that fast as the h4150)
TyTn1 (was ****)
Trinity (same **** like TyTn1, color pealing blahh blahh. but at least smaller)
now this stupid Kaiser (good device but not ready for the market)
I have bought 4 devices from HTC and only one was that what I am expecting to get.
And now you Guys are blaming him because he tells in a open letter what he will do?
Nice one!

HTC cheaters
I agree with the first post of this thread.
lot of people are addicted to flashing roms (me too), the fact that Kaiser is a disaster will never be acknowledged bec we have paid good amount for this and we refuse to give up or accept the facts. Till how long, will this go on. when will HTC be made to change their attitude, an attitude of taking consumers for granted, show me any hardware of their's which is perfect, either the speaker or camera will let u down. people who have criticized the first post should realise that people didnt go out to buy a phone with bad camera, speaker and display issues. Fact is we all have been duped by HTC. and if people here think things can be solved by xda everytime so lets buy htc, then its not right. I hope someday XDA dev manufacture a great phone , probably it will be the perfect phone.

gqstatus0685 said:
Get a life. Good luck with your new phone. Maybe they will have the video drivers you are looking for. We need to make a Sub Forum called "People Who ***** About HTC Products and Video Drivers"
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Unnecessary! It's a forum for people to voice their opinions and thats all he was doing. Fine, if you don't agree with his post, thats up to you but it's like my parents used to tell me "If you don't have anything nice to say.... don't say anything at all"
This is kind of one of the reasons why I try not to post here too much. Too many people all wanting to jump down someones throat when they disagree with a post, r the reason for posting. It's not just here, it's the same with any forum you go to. It's sad really.

Even though you think he's whining, it doesn't get better with the negative answers you give him. He just tells us he's made a choice.
The rudeness to him in the following posts is not worthy of an xda-developer.
Stay friendly.

viewedit said:
I agree with the first post of this thread.
lot of people are addicted to flashing roms (me too), the fact that Kaiser is a disaster will never be acknowledged bec we have paid good amount for this and we refuse to give up or accept the facts. Till how long, will this go on. when will HTC be made to change their attitude, an attitude of taking consumers for granted, show me any hardware of their's which is perfect, either the speaker or camera will let u down. people who have criticized the first post should realise that people didnt go out to buy a phone with bad camera, speaker and display issues. Fact is we all have been duped by HTC. and if people here think things can be solved by xda everytime so lets buy htc, then its not right. I hope someday XDA dev manufacture a great phone , probably it will be the perfect phone.
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Ag, shamepies,
Maybe HTC will provide live feeds from Mars too.
Or maybe better yet, a device that will record your blood pressure and hot & cold running water at the same time!
Oh, maybe even better, a device that will also double as a BMI scale and also have a built-in HIV monitor and blood-group detector!!!
Grow up!!
This has truly become the Cheese & WHINE forum!!!

MACkjam said:
Ag, shamepies,
Maybe HTC will provide live feeds from Mars too.
Or maybe better yet, a device that will record your blood pressure and hot & cold running water at the same time!
Oh, maybe even better, a device that will also double as a BMI scale and also have a built-in HIV monitor and blood-group detector!!!
Grow up!!
This has truly become the Cheese & WHINE forum!!!
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What is YOUR contribution to xda-developers exactly?

even if i dont't mind if anybody has a kaiser, sells a kaiser, buys a kaiser or sleeps with his kaiser, i think such threads might not be useless.
if many people make it clear that they leave HTC and why they sell their phones maybe HTC realizes that their way to treat customers was wrong.

rhov23 said:
What is YOUR contribution to xda-developers exactly?
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Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???

MACkjam said:
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
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Well length of membership really isn't anything to go by, I could have signed up to be a member yesterday and could be a total guru (im not though )
Look, lets just play nice ok? Its a public forum for people to publish their opinions. Lets not turn this into yet another bashing thread.

foobar1977 said:
Well length of membership really isn't anything to go by, I could have signed up to be a member yesterday and could be a total guru (im not though )
Look, lets just play nice ok? Its a public forum for people to publish their opinions. Lets not turn this into yet another bashing thread.
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Agree. Thanks

MACkjam said:
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
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Made iTask, and made a lot of skins for various programs.

E-mail HTC your decision to boycott them here!

Dear dissatisfied HTC Customer,
Before reading this, remember I am NOT encouraging you to boycott HTC. But I think most of you, who are going to do that, are really knowing what your reasons are.
As For me it really seems that we paid for something that HTC did not provide, I think we all have seen great dissatisfaction and complaints here on the forums, which some of us are unable not to agree with. Some people even culminate the dissatisfaction simply by ending the customer relation with HTC.
I figured it would be nice to see how badly did their Kaiser backfire, and the way they handled their customers with this. So please, if you feel that you have had enough and are going separate ways with HTC, use the below link to inform HTC about your decision. Also remember to tell them why you chose to do so. Remember to add that you are talking about Kaiser. And also remember to tell them that you most likely won’t be recommending HTC devices to anyone, and will probably do your best that no-one gets screwed like you did, if you feel like that. That should teach them a lesson!
Also after doing that report back on this thread! So we get to see how it affected their customer base in this forum and hopefully even more widely, a bigger picture. With some math we can speculate what was the damage for them. Hopefully this will help them also to see what they did, and see it would have been everybodys benefit if they did things right at the first place.
Below are the links to inform HTC about your decision. You probably best to aim the e-mail to their "customer service"!
European ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/europe/CS_Mail.aspx
North American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/us/CS_Mail.aspx
Latin American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/la/CS_Mail.aspx
Asian ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/tw/CS_Mail.aspx
Middle-East and African ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/mea-en/CS_Mail.aspx
The reason why I find this really important is that, we really need to get the information on their face. That is where petition signing and things like that fail! I bet after receiving few thousand of this kind of e-mails the information will be passed to the persons concerned. That will not probably help us, but prevent them repeating what they did. Link to this thread would also be good on any other HTC/Kaiser related forum, so we get a collection of all dissatisfied ex-customers overall.
Sincerely Yours,
Henry
Ultimately dissatisfied HTC-EX-customer
ps.
you are still "allowed" to use your current HTC devices the best way you can imagine, since most of us paid a good price for it! For me that would be a paperweight or as a "viviparous lizard's tail".

I just informed HTC-europe that I will never be their customer again! I WONT!
Edit.
Actually, what I did say was, I will boycott them until the justice has happened in this case. Too bad it seems that will never happen. But that will give them at least a little reason to do back the bad things they did to us. They would get me back!

Done.
I am in charge of mobile devices and syncing with Exchange for a 2500+ employee company. I had started migrating people to s620's but have since moved them to HP iPAQ Messengers until a non-HTC device comes out that fits our needs.
So, while I'm not buying any more, I'm making sure nobody at the company (even personal purchases) are HTC.
-Mc

sent to http://www.htc.com/sea/CS_Mail.aspx
hope others will follow........

Sent message to the North American link.

Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone, ATT Tilt, it's an upgrade from my last smartphone/ppc (VOQ Professional Phone) which actually I still have and would still be using had the company not gone out of business, and well the phone doesn't have bluetooth, wifi or a camera either... if it did have those three things I've still be using it now really even if the company went under...
I don't get the Boycott though.. are people REALLY that unhappy with their phones? sure I see lots of complaints about things but I see that with EVERY phone on the market today, there IS NO perfect phone out there and never will be because someone will find something wrong no matter what...

dampeal said:
Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone...
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Please do not go offtopic too much! I understand that there are A LOT of arguments why the Kaiser could be alright as a mobile device, but that is not the point here. The point is that any person has the right to boycott what ever company for any reason he/she finds worth it. I'm collecting that info here NOT DISCUSSING whether the device is worthy or not. Made up my mind already.

I admire the resolve of all that are willing to stand by thier principles. Personnaly, the choice of my next phone is limited to what my carrier has to offer as by buying from them, I get a large discount.
As my carrier is T-Mobile UK, that means my next upgrade will probably be a HTC device (maybe vario 4) for around 100gbp as opposed to a none HTC device from a store for around 400gbp.

When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.

redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.
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Lol... I agree...I will never say never... If HTC launched a TyTN II killer I'd probably get it..If will never buy a Kaiser again though if it helps

redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****.
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That's strange. Because when I visit http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376, I see that there are four sections: one for discussion about accessories, one for discussion about software, one for discussion about ROMs, and this one for general discussion.
I notice that the developers tend to hang out in the software and ROMs sections, and that this general discussion forum is for general discussion.
Do you not have access to all four sections?

redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. ..
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Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.

My message ... Europe Customer.
Drivers for Kaiser? No?
Then thank You, I will find my next device somewhere else, where I will really get what I paid for.

rakdoll said:
Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.
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Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394543&highlight=stuck+bootloader
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228402&highlight=redbandana#post2228402
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228280&highlight=redbandana#post2228280
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394657&page=2
and then some.
However, I do bash n00bs when there are posts bashing HTC. Sorry to offend you in anyway.

^^ I understand your frustration and i share similar sentiments with you. A similar thread was posted yesterday(you can find it on page 2) and the day before yesterday on the ROM dev. forum. It gets annoying after a while, thats all.

redbandana said:
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs. ... . .
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Alright, It seems really we just happen to have our personal opinions, which we are completely righteous. I must admit I totally see your initial point, how this forum is built over the dedication of people who simply love to learn new things. It is totally frustrating nowadays to see people just complaining, without doing a **** about the real issues. I hope I didn't do exactly that, by starting this thread. The real reason to that is just, I would love to scare the **** out of HTC, make them see that they will go down if they don't respect us the way they should.
I do recognize what you stand for, and I must say there must not be anything that I wouldn't share with you. The thing that started this, must be that I have always been a man who stands behind his words, at least most of the time, and I assume the same from others. That includes all the big companies, groups and individuals. It really makes me sad to see where this world is going just because the only thing that matters to people is money. Huge corporations, sucking all the money they can, that's the end of people trying to provide just themselves.. no.. they want all that they can get. In the end, the one who pays the costs is dudes like us.
I honestly also didn't mean to offend anyone, and if it seemed so, I truly apologize. So in the end of the day, it seems like we are alone, with our Kaisers, trying to get the best out of it. So let's just keep on tuning it, until we are happy. That seems to be the initial purpose of this whole place's existence.
really sorry for my funny use of english, you native speakers must be laughing your asses off. But me not native, me from land of the barb-backed fishes. :|

I'm sure this awesome online community only makes up about less then half (if even) of tilt/kaiser/etc owners. There are many people that own this phone because they need it and never go online to mod it. Out of that assumed half I would say a 10th read what is posted or understand a single thing about this phone. That leaves a large number of people who think their phone is "crap" because you tell them it is. Yes I would like to see the phone be faster but I don't think it's crap nor do I think HTC has screwed me over. I don't seem to remember any stats that they released in regards to video or any other performance. Do you? Where are their benchmarks they advertised that weren't acheived by our lovely devices? If you can show them to me then I, and all of my friends will sign your wish list, but until I see them I will just think that everyone is butt hurt over an assumed performance loss.
HTC in my opinion has done something about this. Is it good enough to truely unlock the power of the Kaiser? No, but was it something rather then nothing? Do any of you know the cost of the video driver per unit? No, then how can people claim they paid for something they didn't get. How do you know it wouldn't have been another $50 that would have been tagged on. From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.

ChumleyEX said:
From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.
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This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
If I know it sooner I'd rather choose MWG, or iULTIMATE.. FOR SURE
I don't really care about support after market
But this laggy thing gives me s*it..... the fact that THIS THING DOESN'T have this BEFORE MARKET and they are HIDING THIS FACT!!!!
No multimedia experience only headache if you used it almost every time WITH touch screen... if... u know what I mean... do you??? or u just using it for modem only????
...bump

rajmagi said:
This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
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+1 Chumley I also go alot on the support forums for the iPhone, because my wife has an iPhone. If you were new to the iPhone you would think that it was the biggest piece of crap around. Thats all that is there is whining and complaining about how it doesn't work, Apple sold us a piece of crap . Here is a petition, let's put Apple out of business. As with all other forums a very vocal MINORITY of people who for whatever reason are having trouble with there phones.
Don't even get me started with the " Check the price, I thought I was getting the best " consumer strategy. I am just glad you don't buy my groceries.
I love my phone ,it does everything they told me it would do.It makes phone
calls, it schedules, MS Office is great, web access is great, I have push email, My gps works great etc... etc.....etc. Do I care that it doesn't have a Nikon D40 inside, do I care that I can't play WoW on it , do I care that I can't watch you tube all day at 3G on a battery charge? No ! This isn't what they promised me and this isn't what I bought my phone for.
Bottom line is, there are a million people out there that are perfectly satisfied with their HTC product. But we never hear from them. They are the silent majority. We here have to put up with thread after thread after thread because the vocal minority thinks we care that they bought a phone they don't like

STOP *****ing about Video Drivers. Who care. The phone is fine. You are forgetting that it's a PHONE! Be glad they added alot of extra stuff you can't find in a majority of phones. I have never had a problem watching videos and movies on my phone. Seriously.. geez

Need to unload my Tilt...

Mods - please forgive if this thread is misplaced!
I've gotten at G1 (Dream) and no longer have any use for this AT&T Tilt. I would sell it on Craigslist or eBay, but frankly I have no malice toward the world, and therefore will not unleash this drastic POS on some unsuspecting fool like me.
Not looking for much - I figure there is a developer here who would be happy to relieve me of it, along with two batteries and a docking station for a couple hundred bucks (I dunno?) If I'm asking too much, I apologize. It's definitely not mint, it's been beat up a bit, but is in excellent working order. The software has no issues that I'm aware of. I refuse to sell it for market price because I feel it's an injustice to do so - AT&T should have paid ME to use this stupid pofc, but I do want to get rid of it.
I'm in SoCal, local pick up in exchange for cash is preferred, would also prefer to give it to a developer who will put it to good use as a platform for testing and developing on WM6 or whatever you like. If nobody wants it, you're welcome to join me for an "Office Space" moment whilst I toss it into the middle of PCH and watch cars and heavy trucks smash it to bits. Whatever is left (I would never litter!) will be somehow otherwise consumed appropriately (perhaps a vat of acid?) and summarily disposed of.
Thank you for your interest; again, should this thread be misplaced, I apologize - instruct and I will comply kindly!
Thank you!
OH - and a BIG shout out to everyone here that helped me try to live with this thing for a few months... it was a few months too long, but I appreciate your valiant efforts nonetheless - you certainly made this thing a LOT less bad! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!

To paraphrase the Bard...
The dude doth protest too much, methinks

Nah - it's astounding the difference between a device that works as it should and one that doesn't. WM6 is, imho, complete garbage. And my sentiments were completely reinforced as soon as I tried Android. The Dream just does what it's supposed to as a mobile phone - for instance - I CAN DIAL. It's nice, you know?
Anybody want this thing?

I am interestedin your tilt, I will send you a PM as well to see if we can come to an agreement.

delaner said:
The Dream just does what it's supposed to as a mobile phone - for instance - I CAN DIAL. It's nice, you know?
Anybody want this thing?
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I've only had my Tilt for two weeks, so forgive my ignorance, but I am fully able to dial on my phone (quite easily, I might add!). Does my phone do something unusual that other Tilt models don't do?
Just like in the PC and laptop world, Windows boxes are typically awful "out of the box". With knowledge, customization, and tweaking, though, most users should be able to find a setup that suits them. Obviously, for people looking for something that "just works" out of the box, the Apple and G1 products are great.
Best of luck with your new phone, and here's hoping your Tilt finds a good home.
- DDB

TY TN II review

After over one year of use I just wanted to write few lines about my impression of this PDA.
I travel a lot and I thought that a PDA could be helpful to keep in touch and do the IT chores while on the go. I was very wrong and I regret having bought the damn thing. The device tries to do many things but none of them well. In retrospective it sounded too good to be true.
At the beginning I did make a point of using it to its best potential but after a while I got so tired and annoyed with it that I have used it mostly like just any other phone.
I thought I would give myself some time to get accustomed to the complexity of the device before jumping to conclusions.
Over one year later and I still find it incredibly cumbersome and totally user unfriendly. The guys at HTC should go to Apple to get a crush course in making something user friendly.
Here are just a few things. The list is way longer but I would have to go back and try most functions to recall all the flaws.
- It's super slow. I am no super fast teenage geek but I am always waiting for the stupid thing to react to any command I give. It is very annoying and it's like stepping back to the time of the 286 PCs. The speed is archaic.
- The buttons controls are very difficult to feel with the touch and are very cumbersome to operate. Especially the side ones. I am sure that even blind people would have problems using them.
- Windows mobile is as bad as Microsoft gets. It's slow, counter intuitive, user unfriendly. Early Vista at the power of ten!
- Window media player is a joke. I have been using the PDA to listen to music in the car and it's a miracle I have not crashed while trying to select some music yet.
- The touch screen is also very bad and difficult to use. A lot of the commands are way too small for a man's finger. It is very difficult to select something on first attempt.
- To open a running program is difficult. One has to press the top right menu and than select what is running by touch only. The bar is about 4 mm high and it's very difficult to select using one hand. One cannot select by using the scroll bar and button.
- During phone calls the screen goes out quickly and to get it back one has to look for the hidden button on the side, very bad.
- Voice recognition sucks. Since the controls are so bad I now use the voice recognition most times. It's rare that the damn machine get it right on first attempt. Repeating the name twice helps but not always. I end up having to raise the tone as if I was yelling. Very embarrassing in public.
- The GPS take a long time to get the satellites even when the data has been updated.
- Active sync is a disaster. The guy that design it should be shot. I have given up on it altogether. I had to buy small software to access the data in the PDA and memory card.
Active sync could just not do the most elementary operation in a simple and straightforward way.
- The booting upon starting is the longest I have ever seen. Switching it off is also a chore
The list goes on but I am getting annoyed just to think about it all. This is the first and last product I’ll ever buy from HTC. Unless you are a geek that gets pleasure messing with IT devices do not buy it. Its use will take an unhealthy amount of your time. It will not help your life, it will waste a lot of your time and annoy you in the process.
Stay away from it!

My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.

Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.

I like my TyTN II.
Maybe some of the things you think missed, you could configure them another way to get the most of the device. I think I'll never finish to get more and more from it. And I exhausted a P4350 before changing to the Kaiser.

denco7 said:
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PDA was also used by a friend of mine who is a blackberry user and talented software developer with many years of experience in IT. He did notice the same things and at times the thing did drive him crazy too.
My friend is also a guy that has switched to Linux long time ago. I have been too lazy and suffered in silence with MS crap but hopefully I will find the time to invest in changing for the better.
My friend impressions made me realize that I am not clueless as you say. In fact being a marine engineer I have dealt with equipment of all sorts for many years.
The PDA is designed by geeks for geeks. It is not a product for normal people. Anybody that buys this device has to spend many, many hours tying to sort it out and make it work better. I did that at the beginning and downloaded many fixes and upgrades. The very existance of this website and the number of people that use it is an indication that this PDA is not a product you switch on and just use. Very far from it.
I think you are like many people that after spending all that money don't want to admit that they got a lemon. The fact that you want to upgrade is a clear indication that you are not that satisfied with the gadget.
Just pick it up and slide the keyboard slightly. It takes 4.8 sec for the display to go from vertical to horizontal and back. If that is fast then you must be very slow.
Cheers

Yeah I also suggest you get an iphone. It's for people just like you.
No customization and power-user options, but your grandma can figure out the basic PDA functions.
TytnII has been great for me.

This is a negative and boring thread from the op! With some effort you can do a lot with the tytn2 as well as the tytn1! Very good devices!

I very much enjoy my Kaiser. I had some of the problems the OP had when I was running the AT&T stock ROM (with bloatware), but all that changed when I started using custom ROMs. The Kaiser is actually a very capable device, the only reason it underperforms is because it's hardware isn't fully taken advantage of (but even that's improving now). Once I flash a ROM and spend a whole 10 minutes customizing the device to how I like it, it runs like a dream.
OP: As the others have said in this thread, if you aren't willing to tweak the device, and customize the living crap out of it in order to get a faster Kaiser, maybe a feature phone or iPhone would be more suitable for you.
Dave
PS: (I have a 286, and it runs fine!)

I have a tytn, tytnII, titan, touch pro and a fuze. I must admit that every one of these devices were less than spectacular in the as-shipped form from the service provider. Thats why I found this site so I could make them all perform up to their hype.
Every one of them, thanks to the wonderful developers here, will outperform an iphown now. I have had very little problems like the OP described that were not simply fixed by changing a setting here or there. I like my tilt better than any of the others I have had (except the fuze.)

My 8525 (TyTn) works great and it has less power than the TyTnII. You can not get the most out of the phone unless you get rid of the stock OS. That's why XDA Devs rocks. Once the stock OS is gone - the phones rock!

mikechannon said:
This is the Kaiser forum. A forum dedicated to supporting Kaiser owners and providing answers to specific problems.
I'm sure you can see that this is not a supportive thread for TyTn II owners.
I'm not actually sure that expressing views about strongly disliking HTC and WM is a wise idea on a website dedicated to both those things.
However, and lest I be accused of wielding evil Moderator censorship powers, I will move this thread to off-topic. There it will take up its place accumulating wise and sensible contributions to the debate.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Mike,
It's not about being supportive or not. It's about giving a broad range of perspective so if tomorrow somebody wants to buy the device they can search for information and have a better idea of what they are getting into.
Unfortunately at the time I bought mine the information available was somehow biased towards people who think that is ok to spend 750 $ for a gadget that right away needs all sorts of non OEM twicks and upgrades to perform close to its marketing claims.
In any sector or product if one buys at the very top end of the price range should expect to end up with something that works well right away.
The TY TN II does not. HTC is a company with great potential but it should take a lot longer before releasing a product such this.
I belive that censorship does not help the people behind this site that are happy with the product either. My post is not off topic. They are first hand comments on the device from somebody that owns one, just like anybody else here.
Because of lack of unbiased information many people like me or even less prepared to mess with the device will buy it and up here nagging everyone else for help. Even for the silliest problems.
Let's be clear. This is a very niche product, HTC marketing pitch is misleading. It is not a piece of consumer goods suitable for the majority of people. It has to become a pet project for the buyer otherwise will not delivery to it's full potential.
I would suggest you put this thread in a very accessible location.
I am sorry if have hurt any TY TN II lovers
I suspect that a lot of people here see the device like their own baby.
Cheers

gogol said:
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!

mikechannon said:
Well yes in the interests of allowing different points of view, the thread has been kept, we are all entitled to a reasoned point of view.
However IMHO it is off-topic in the sense that keeping it in the TyTn II forum which is specifically to provide help for those who already have a TyTn II would be inappropriate. I did consider the General forum, but againthat is for those who already own an HTC phone and are seeking support perhaps for Windows Mobile issues.
So by elimination if nothing else "off-topic" was the choice. Those searching the likes of Google will still find it regardless of the forum it's in.
I still have my doubts that this is appropriate as a forum to choose for such a review/feedback because it can encourage flaming type posts. I'm sure you know what I mean - would you go to a Rolls Royce owners site to express your views about why they are not good cars? Maybe you would, but I think it would be better to choose a site that reviews different brands, rather than telling folk who already own the product that you think what they have is no good. I doubt folk trying to choose a product would consider a dedicated site to be an unbiased place to gather reliable reviews.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mike,
I happen to be one of those Rolls Royce owners (I wish!) that's why I think I should have a say on this site. My views are counter current that's all. I don't feel undermined here despite being a totally "visible minority". If people were to get inflamed about it then there is always the almighty moderator that should straighten things out.
I still think my post does not belong to the off topic section because I think the view of somebody like myself can be beneficial to the majority here. I know that this could be difficult to acknowledge for somebody.
On the wake of the recent purchase and proud of my shiny new device, in the first 6 months of ownership of the Ty TN II I was like most other people here, reading, downloading, twicking. After a while I realized that what I was doing was going against the very reason I bought the device in the first place which was make my life easier and make me save time.
At that point and tired of the constant work that the machine demanded I gave up on it. I bought a new laptop and used the PDA like a phone and navigator only.
If I had found posts like mine before I would have made my natural progression earlier and I would have saved myself a lot of time and headaches.
I am sure there are other people in that position and they should be able to benefit from opinions like mine without having to Google them. To the hard core PDArers it should make no difference. I understand there is a pleasure in molding a machine to you own specification. I respect that; years ago I would have kept on doing it.
I hope you understand my plea and thanks for your work. I and many others did benefit from this great site.
Unfortunately I don't think that I can ethically contribute to the HTC or MS cause in a positive way. The fact that they created the need for a site like this is totally unacceptable.
I believe that it is wrong to offer volunteer work to greedy corporations that totally don't give a damn about their customer base. HTC and MS are clear examples.
I wish the talented work of people like XDA-developers will go towards developing software and service for no profit organizations and not to patch up the shortcomings and disservice of these corporations.
Bill Gates has become a philanthropist to wash his sins. I hope his example will be followed by all the other big fish in the corporate world.
Cheers

olliric said:
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.

jaugusto said:
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words

olliric said:
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.

jaugusto said:
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes the BBs do USB File transfer when plugged into a PC with nothing extra installed. You get prompted on the device to enable Mass Storage Mode.

jaugusto said:
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think corporations do plan to make every gadget quickly outdated. Hardware and software companies help each other in that regard. Software is designed to require more and more computing power even though is often not necessary. We could be a lot farther ahead after 20 years of consumer computers. MS is probably the main cause of this troubled development and we are still stuck with it. Window mobile may be better than others but is still very far from being good. That was also the idea of a MS project manager friend of mine who eventually left Seattle and MS. I remember venting my frustration with him and he had no excuse to offer.
I did do ROM upgrades early on but then I had to remove them after developing other problems. If one day I run into somebody that will do it for me I may give them another try. I just had it with this PDA I don't to waste anymore time.
I have a lot of other things in my life and I just don't want to spend time on something that should save me time. It just does not make any sense to me.
When this PDA will crap out I'll be very careful of what I may buy. I think I have learned the lesson. The only thing that I have appreciated is the navigator which is neither HTC or MS. I travel a lot so I keep the bastard only for that. I have to bear the bulk and weight of it for navigation and the occasional email.
I don't know if there are PDAs that can be used like a USB pen. I really hope so. It is such a simple thing, if there aren't any then it's really bad out there.
Thanks for your help
Cheers

I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.

mbarvian said:
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to hear that I am not the only unhappy here. Actually I believe there are a lot more but they don't want to admit it.
So you guys de-lurk yourself and get it off your chest. You'll feel better. After all we just bought the PDA, we did not do anything terrible. There wasn't much choice anyway. If I made it or the OS then I would feel really bad about myself.
Cheers

People bricking thier phones and tablets

I must say to the people who brick thier phones and tablets... shame on you!
You dont read or follow full directions before doing something, or you really arent techincal minded and cant admit you shouldnt be doing these things to your phones/tablets. and then go and brick them.
Now this isnt the problem I have (i fell bad for those who have).
My problem is with the people who then lie and call up the maker of the phone and make up some bull to get a new one, or return it to the store and lie to get a new one.
YOu people are the reason why more equipment makers wont lower thier prices and wont open thier systems up to people who accually know what they are doing.
You make it more expensive on everyone. I read post after post of people who return thier phones/tablets they have bricked for new ones. post after post of people just buying every tablet in site to "TRY IT OUT" and then return them before the dead line.
YOU people are why these things are so exspensive.
MY local best buy I kid you not had more tablets and ipads as open box buys then they had new ones. salesman told me all people are doing is buying screwing with them for a few days and then returning. then no one wants the open box ones because you dont know what people did to them.
Grow up if you break something its your fault not the manufactures why should they replace it? if you dont want something DONT BUY IT!!! dont buy it with the intention of playing with it then returning it thats just wrong.

You are one hundred per cent correct.
I'll use your thread as a bit of a chance to vent, this is not directed at you and apologies in advance
I am sick and tired of God-damn kiddies popping up here, loading software onto their phones, cocking it up because they haven't done the reading or just have no f*cking idea, then demanding a f*cking walkthrough on how to pull themselves out of the sh*t step-by-step, or as you stated (and worse) returning their devices to get a new one, driving up prices and promoting manufacturers to lock their devices up tighter and tighter. It's an absolute disgrace.
So many users these days seem to have a God complex, an over-bundance of self-righteousness and an expectation that they deserve everything on a bloody silver platter.
Never ceases to amaze me that these idiots are willing to try everything posted here at the drop of a hat without waiting for bugs to pop up or even seeing if it bricks a device. Everyone wants the best right now, and then wants top-notch support to go with it. Just because it f*cking looks pretty.
Motorola have the right idea. Lock everything up tight, offer the option of unlocking, and void the warranty immediately. That's a damn good business practice. Keeps Developers happy (they can start work immediately without all the unlocking/S-OFF bullsh*t), and, you would think, would make people think twice about what they're doing before they unlock their bootloaders. Still doesn't seem to work this way though, hey?
It's for this reason I have absolutely no problem with manufacturers locking their devices. It's a dickhead deterrent. Doesn't phase a good Developer, but the idiots and general masses (myself included) are stuck, and they don't have to replace our phones because we didn't read or didn't understand, or wanted the best without doing anything to deserve it.
Noone wants to take responsibility for their own actions. If a Dev's ROM doesn't work for someone, all of a sudden it's the Devs fault. Nevermind they didn't read the instructions, FAQs and whatever else may have been there. Christ I saw someone create a thread to demand a step-by-step walkthrough and download of ADB just before. What the f*ck? More importantly, what the f*ck are you doing here without doing any reading or research at all?
/rant
Again mate, my apologies. I just agree with you, and I like the fact you've got 20-odd posts and 4 thanks already. You can have another one for your troubles!

The biggest issue I have is when a dev. writes an unlock code for a newer phone and it gets released to the public, freeing that phone from being locked down, but also opening it up to a whole slew of idiots that should't be allowed to have a miniUSB cable in their home.
I can honestly say that I have NEVER bricked a phone. I will say I have had issues come up, but never enough to consider the phone an expensive paperweight.
Currently I am working on porting the Android 1.6 rom from the Dream G1 to the HTC Raphael, a perfect example of software being the main contributor to sales volume.
The Dream has less RAM and NAND memory, less keys on the keyboard and a lower resolution screen than the Raphael, but since it has Android installed it sold quite a bit more than the more feature-laden Raphael.
If I brick the Raphael there's no big loss, It was a free phone...
I tend to cover every aspect when looking into cooking or building roms and anroid installs, unlike most who will flash their phone with something completely wrong for their device.
To any of the "kiddies" reading this, RESEARCH your device, RESEARCH the phone you're about to flash it to and RESEARCH known problems after install so you don't post flames to the OP of the ROM/build! Most good cooks will post known problems with their ROMs' and even tell you if you need to flash a different radio or not.
I hate seeing 300+ replies to a ROM posting... Most of the info is in the FIRST or SECOND post, unless otherwize stated by the OP.
(I needed to rant... sorry if I offended anyone)

PoXFreak said:
The biggest issue I have is when a dev. writes an unlock code for a newer phone and it gets released to the public, freeing that phone from being locked down, but also opening it up to a whole slew of idiots that should't be allowed to have a miniUSB cable in their home.
I can honestly say that I have NEVER bricked a phone. I will say I have had issues come up, but never enough to consider the phone an expensive paperweight.
Currently I am working on porting the Android 1.6 rom from the Dream G1 to the HTC Raphael, a perfect example of software being the main contributor to sales volume.
The Dream has less RAM and NAND memory, less keys on the keyboard and a lower resolution screen than the Raphael, but since it has Android installed it sold quite a bit more than the more feature-laden Raphael.
If I brick the Raphael there's no big loss, It was a free phone...
I tend to cover every aspect when looking into cooking or building roms and anroid installs, unlike most who will flash their phone with something completely wrong for their device.
To any of the "kiddies" reading this, RESEARCH your device, RESEARCH the phone you're about to flash it to and RESEARCH known problems after install so you don't post flames to the OP of the ROM/build! Most good cooks will post known problems with their ROMs' and even tell you if you need to flash a different radio or not.
I hate seeing 300+ replies to a ROM posting... Most of the info is in the FIRST or SECOND post, unless otherwize stated by the OP.
(I needed to rant... sorry if I offended anyone)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Firstly, good luck with your project. I have an old Raphael here so if I can be of help testing or whatever, let me know.
Second, you're exactly right. If you do the research, the issues you run into generally aren't overwhelming, and because you've read you already know what to do if you run into them. It's the kids that come in with their new toy, try and flash **** and **** it up, then expect the whole forum to bend over backwards to provide everything they need to fix their f*ck up. If they'd done what they should have done in the first place, we wouldn't be having this conversation!

First off let me say thanks for the support on my forum topic. I was a "noob" as well at one time. Heck we are all "noobs" with each new rom,tablet,sdk,phone,o.s. that hits the streets as each one has its own set of issues and work arounds.
For example when I went to root my dell streak 7 I read up on it, I read about all the options and how they worked , looked for what problems others had, if it was even a good option for me at the time. Then i took what seemed the most popular option and what seemed to work best for others. and while reading up on the process i came across the adb stuff as mentioned before.
I was like holy crap whats all that I have to do. Well at least I have a back ground in modding and computer repaires going back years so I have the means to understand what i am reading.
But like mentioned before most of these people have no idea what adb is or how to set it up or even use it, they just jump right in with the first half ass'd wrote tutorial that useually leaves a set out and bingo they brick thier device.
Then go and return or send it in for replacement jacking up the cost for everyone else.
All I can say is read read read read read read read oh and READ some more before you go and think your a hacker and mess with your 500 dollar phone or tablet. then go cry and want a free replacement when YOU screw it up.
IM not perfect I bricked the hell out of a nook color BUT If you calm down go on the net and look chances are someone else has done the same thing and the information is out there to undo it just like i found and now my nook is all happy.
IT is very rare that these devices are UNFIXABLE almost 98% of any thing you do to it can be undone if you dont have the knowledge to undo what you have done then you should not be messing with it in the first place period.
and if you have screwed it up dont go run to the store or the warrenty hot line with a bag full of lies. Cowboy up and take the blame dont expect others to bail you out and put even more ecnomic hardships and tighter lock downs on the rest of us becasue that is all your doing.
On the lighter side LOL please excuse my grammer,puctuation,spelling and so forth I get so into my posts sometimes I dont pay any attention lol. Then when I se the post I go wow I look like an idiot but a lazy one I dont bother to fix it .

sorry, but you are completely wrong. This is absolutely not how market works.
The price is not calculated and is not at all based on how many of devices get broken - which is how they are classified.
If all, then on contrary, the price may be reduced to reflect percentage of returned pieces. But again there is no dependence here.
Moreover, those devices will get reused, and will add on statistics to show problem with flashing, based on which they may try to make flashing more easy and foolproof. Yes maybe they'll decide to close some holes and make it more difficult to customize, but they might also decide to loose security here a little.
Look at HTC, you probably would agree they know about custom rom reflashing and I would say they even pulled some ropes to make it possible or easier.
It's market again, people who put custom ROM in their phone are more like pda freaks, specialist and their friends know them as such and when buying a phone asks them for opinion. So it's good for them to keep us, pda freaks, happy and allow us to tamper with their phones to be so.

Agree 110% that users should read, read, read and ask questions to be sure they fully understand what they are doing and the consequences before trying modifications. They should be held responsible for their actions. Hard-working developers waste far too much time bailing out fools from their own foolishness.
There should be far more posts like in this thread all over the internet.

papo said:
sorry, but you are completely wrong. This is absolutely not how market works.
The price is not calculated and is not at all based on how many of devices get broken - which is how they are classified.
If all, then on contrary, the price may be reduced to reflect percentage of returned pieces. But again there is no dependence here.
Moreover, those devices will get reused, and will add on statistics to show problem with flashing, based on which they may try to make flashing more easy and foolproof. Yes maybe they'll decide to close some holes and make it more difficult to customize, but they might also decide to loose security here a little.
Look at HTC, you probably would agree they know about custom rom reflashing and I would say they even pulled some ropes to make it possible or easier.
It's market again, people who put custom ROM in their phone are more like pda freaks, specialist and their friends know them as such and when buying a phone asks them for opinion. So it's good for them to keep us, pda freaks, happy and allow us to tamper with their phones to be so.
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Click to collapse
Hum ... maybe you are right but maybe you are wrong. let me tell you my opinion of why I think you are wrong.
You say that all these returned devices that people jack up dont affect the market but somehow help the numbers?
OK I myself and most other people I know, if you go into a best buy lets say for the sake of argument and they have 2 tablets on the self One is brand new never been owned sealed up at 299.99. and the other is 10% off (I thinkthat is thier standard drop for open box) open box buy. what one are you gonna chose? knowing what people do with these things I dont know about you but to me the 30 bucks savings isnt worth the hassle of returning it when it doesnt work or to find out someone monkeyed with it. And i feel i am not alone and why there are so many open box buys sitting around on shelves.
Walmart doesnt restock returned tablets or phones doesnt matter if they are working or not they return everything to the manufacturer.
Manufacturers by law cannot resell a used item as new it has to be listed as refurbished.
so where do all these refurbished tablets go??? I dont see them. does anyone here have one? No they go to sleasy civic center electronics shows for resell at nearkly full retail and who buys them? no one at that pric people would rather have a new one. not to mention by the time the refubished junk makes its rounds to be resold its outdated and everyone wants the new thing.
Dont believe me there are stil factory refubished sega dreamcasts for sale on the internet... thats like form what 12 years ago.
all this material sitting arund DOES affect the prices we pay manufactures cant have 300 million in feurbished items sitting arund unsold with out it affecting its bottom line. so who pays for it... we do with higher prices.
also with that many items comming in defective they know which ones were hacked and messed up and which ones where manufacturing defects. when you get 100's of millions in loses do to people messing around with and screwing up your product YES you will lock it down more to make it harder.
Lets put this into a laymans terms.. lets say you own and run a chair store yes all you make are chairs. this month you made 100 chairs. well lets say 50 of them came back for refunds because people used them as something to stand on and broke them. so now your company is running at a greater then 60% loss. not only are you out the retail money for the chairs, your out the labor, the material, and the cost of now doing something with all the broken chairs. whicj included fixing them and then resellig them on a secondary market for less then the original retail. at this point your out a wad of cash and no body wants to buy your once broken chairs.
OK so now how do you go about correcting the problem you have keep people from breaking your chairs so you get less returns and there fore have a better bottom line so now you have to buy stornger wood, stronger glue, and make a more robust chair that people cant break.
all of this drives your costs up and profits down so what do you do?? Thats right you increase the cost of the chair.
You maybe right I dont think I have any idea how a market works.

i agree, just like real life, things come with inscructions for a reason.
i mean, if you buy a peice of furniture from ikea...well, good luck even with the inscructions (i flipping hate ikea, to many parts to assemble)
but the point is, they are there to show you what do to, i managed to read them, and i got my skyraider (i want to flash to a 2.3 rom, but, due to bugs and reading alot of them are glitchy, gonna hold off on that for a while.

I'm not gonna lie, I bricked my first Android phone, However.. HTC Replaced the internals Not everyone that does this is a noob, it only takes 1 mistake or 1 panic to they do something and it breaks Mine bricked flashing a radio (I had read no instructions) I saw the phone with a triangle on when it rebooted and was like ahh?! Have I broke it and ripped the battery out.. Which did infact break it However rooting etc. where to even download the tools needed you have to read through very simple step by step instructions which are HARD not to do exactly as said Then maybe I don't see how people end up breaking them

I have issues with these noobs wanting one click, exploits for everything and then when you.. (okay, I) suggest maybe, they actually learn, how to do it by long division...ie the "long way"...I get told to "get with the times" and "I, don't need too"....No?, well don't come crying to, me when something goes, wrong....I'll be too busy playing around on MY device....THAT ACTUALLY WORKS....
Sent using two tin cans and some string.....

Babydoll25 said:
I have issues with these noobs wanting one click, exploits for everything and then when you.. (okay, I) suggest maybe, they actually learn, how to do it by long division...ie the "long way"...I get told to "get with the times" and "I, don't need too"....No?, well don't come crying to, me when something goes, wrong....I'll be too busy playing around on MY device....THAT ACTUALLY WORKS....
Sent using two tin cans and some string.....
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Click to collapse
Damn right. You tell someone to go and do the 'hard' work themselves, all of a sudden these pr*cks step up and have the nerve to call you out. I'm sorry, but this place needs assholes, and lots of them. Kiddies will never learn if they're spoon-fed everything. Nothing teaches you something quicker than a smack on the ass.
I don't see anything at all wrong with calling out n00bs and serving a few idiots, provided it's done civilly. You'll always upset some people, but you can't be all things to all people, and I'd much rather be thought of as an asshole here and do my bit to cut down the bullsh*t, than sit idly by and watch this place die.

I can see it over in the desire hd forums too(and i bet it's the same situaion on other forums too). There are more and more people who are too stupid to read one of the guides in the dev section. We have dozens of threads on how to downgrade/ s-off. And these aren't just for the lulz.
Everyday we get tons of new threads like "HALP MEH I HAZ NO TAIM TO READ TEH GUIDES SO PLIZ HALP MEH UNLOCKING MAH PHONE!!!!!!!!!" or "I NO HAS READ GUIDE AND I NOW ONLY HAS WHITE HTC SCREEN!!!!11"...
It seems that they haven't even clicked one single time on the Dev-section before creating a new thread about a bootloop or anything else.
And last but no least: the search button.
It's the same story again. The forum is full of questions that were answered like a billion times in the past.
Guys, when will you realise it? It takes some effort to make our phones working as we want them to. And the most important thing to do is reading. Read the guides some users put a lot of effort in. Read them to understand your device better and read them just to hit the Thanks Button on the bottom of the guide.
Sent out of my Free Candy Van.

MacaronyMax said:
I'm not gonna lie, I bricked my first Android phone, However.. HTC Replaced the internals Not everyone that does this is a noob, it only takes 1 mistake or 1 panic to they do something and it breaks Mine bricked flashing a radio (I had read no instructions) I saw the phone with a triangle on when it rebooted and was like ahh?! Have I broke it and ripped the battery out.. Which did infact break it However rooting etc. where to even download the tools needed you have to read through very simple step by step instructions which are HARD not to do exactly as said Then maybe I don't see how people end up breaking them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because noobs think they can do everything in one-shot and end up getting bit on the ass
plus one rom i had to go back and wipe it 4 times before it finally booted back the startup loop
so, trial and error and paitionce also is important.

Babydoll25 said:
I have issues with these noobs wanting one click, exploits for everything and then when you.. (okay, I) suggest maybe, they actually learn, how to do it by long division...ie the "long way"...I get told to "get with the times" and "I, don't need too"....No?, well don't come crying to, me when something goes, wrong....I'll be too busy playing around on MY device....THAT ACTUALLY WORKS....
Sent using two tin cans and some string.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, those aren;'t noobs, those are lazy people. they think technology will be instant...no, sorry never will, people get new tv's and think that everything will be setup out of the box, sadly this is why they have techs who have to come out and set the thing up for you because you were too ****ing lazy to take 30 minutes to an hour and do it yourself and save a buttload of money.
and how I rooted and got my roms on there? i read inscructions.....and Cvbcbcmv's video :/

Oh you poor OP. When will you learn?
Everyone was born unique. Therefore, everyone who was born falls on a different spot on the normal IQ curve. For everyone who is smart, quiet, listens to instructions, and respectful, there will be one d1ckwad on the other end of the equation (stupid, noisy, jumps the gun, and douchey).
From my experience, I know that I can only pray for these people and get the heck out of the dev section unless I need a new ROM.
But, all said and done, don't be discouraged by these id10ts, and continue to believe in humanity, or at least in me. I have never bricked my Desire, and the one time I was >< this close to bricking it, I knew what I did wrong and was prepared to fully accept the price of my stupidity. I have also read the instruction manual that came with my phone end to end (barring the index pages, anyway).

sakai4eva said:
Oh you poor OP. When will you learn?
Everyone was born unique. Therefore, everyone who was born falls on a different spot on the normal IQ curve. For everyone who is smart, quiet, listens to instructions, and respectful, there will be one d1ckwad on the other end of the equation (stupid, noisy, jumps the gun, and douchey).
From my experience, I know that I can only pray for these people and get the heck out of the dev section unless I need a new ROM.
But, all said and done, don't be discouraged by these id10ts, and continue to believe in humanity, or at least in me. I have never bricked my Desire, and the one time I was >< this close to bricking it, I knew what I did wrong and was prepared to fully accept the price of my stupidity. I have also read the instruction manual that came with my phone end to end (barring the index pages, anyway).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction. Three dickwads

juzz86 said:
Correction. Three dickwads
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Click to collapse
If XDA have this button called "follow", I'd click on it right now.

sakai4eva said:
If XDA have this button called "follow", I'd click on it right now.
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Click to collapse
Cheers mate.
Unfortunately, some clowns are even beyond prayers. Look at how many threads there are for the f*cking Photon 4G. You'd think someone would have a look first, hey?
I don't want to be a Senior Member anymore. I want my user tag to be 'Ban Hammer'. Then watch me go!
Juzz86 - Ban Hammer
EDIT: Nice t1ts

The quote is funnier when you finally get the innuendos.