After over one year of use I just wanted to write few lines about my impression of this PDA.
I travel a lot and I thought that a PDA could be helpful to keep in touch and do the IT chores while on the go. I was very wrong and I regret having bought the damn thing. The device tries to do many things but none of them well. In retrospective it sounded too good to be true.
At the beginning I did make a point of using it to its best potential but after a while I got so tired and annoyed with it that I have used it mostly like just any other phone.
I thought I would give myself some time to get accustomed to the complexity of the device before jumping to conclusions.
Over one year later and I still find it incredibly cumbersome and totally user unfriendly. The guys at HTC should go to Apple to get a crush course in making something user friendly.
Here are just a few things. The list is way longer but I would have to go back and try most functions to recall all the flaws.
- It's super slow. I am no super fast teenage geek but I am always waiting for the stupid thing to react to any command I give. It is very annoying and it's like stepping back to the time of the 286 PCs. The speed is archaic.
- The buttons controls are very difficult to feel with the touch and are very cumbersome to operate. Especially the side ones. I am sure that even blind people would have problems using them.
- Windows mobile is as bad as Microsoft gets. It's slow, counter intuitive, user unfriendly. Early Vista at the power of ten!
- Window media player is a joke. I have been using the PDA to listen to music in the car and it's a miracle I have not crashed while trying to select some music yet.
- The touch screen is also very bad and difficult to use. A lot of the commands are way too small for a man's finger. It is very difficult to select something on first attempt.
- To open a running program is difficult. One has to press the top right menu and than select what is running by touch only. The bar is about 4 mm high and it's very difficult to select using one hand. One cannot select by using the scroll bar and button.
- During phone calls the screen goes out quickly and to get it back one has to look for the hidden button on the side, very bad.
- Voice recognition sucks. Since the controls are so bad I now use the voice recognition most times. It's rare that the damn machine get it right on first attempt. Repeating the name twice helps but not always. I end up having to raise the tone as if I was yelling. Very embarrassing in public.
- The GPS take a long time to get the satellites even when the data has been updated.
- Active sync is a disaster. The guy that design it should be shot. I have given up on it altogether. I had to buy small software to access the data in the PDA and memory card.
Active sync could just not do the most elementary operation in a simple and straightforward way.
- The booting upon starting is the longest I have ever seen. Switching it off is also a chore
The list goes on but I am getting annoyed just to think about it all. This is the first and last product I’ll ever buy from HTC. Unless you are a geek that gets pleasure messing with IT devices do not buy it. Its use will take an unhealthy amount of your time. It will not help your life, it will waste a lot of your time and annoy you in the process.
Stay away from it!
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
I like my TyTN II.
Maybe some of the things you think missed, you could configure them another way to get the most of the device. I think I'll never finish to get more and more from it. And I exhausted a P4350 before changing to the Kaiser.
denco7 said:
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PDA was also used by a friend of mine who is a blackberry user and talented software developer with many years of experience in IT. He did notice the same things and at times the thing did drive him crazy too.
My friend is also a guy that has switched to Linux long time ago. I have been too lazy and suffered in silence with MS crap but hopefully I will find the time to invest in changing for the better.
My friend impressions made me realize that I am not clueless as you say. In fact being a marine engineer I have dealt with equipment of all sorts for many years.
The PDA is designed by geeks for geeks. It is not a product for normal people. Anybody that buys this device has to spend many, many hours tying to sort it out and make it work better. I did that at the beginning and downloaded many fixes and upgrades. The very existance of this website and the number of people that use it is an indication that this PDA is not a product you switch on and just use. Very far from it.
I think you are like many people that after spending all that money don't want to admit that they got a lemon. The fact that you want to upgrade is a clear indication that you are not that satisfied with the gadget.
Just pick it up and slide the keyboard slightly. It takes 4.8 sec for the display to go from vertical to horizontal and back. If that is fast then you must be very slow.
Cheers
Yeah I also suggest you get an iphone. It's for people just like you.
No customization and power-user options, but your grandma can figure out the basic PDA functions.
TytnII has been great for me.
This is a negative and boring thread from the op! With some effort you can do a lot with the tytn2 as well as the tytn1! Very good devices!
I very much enjoy my Kaiser. I had some of the problems the OP had when I was running the AT&T stock ROM (with bloatware), but all that changed when I started using custom ROMs. The Kaiser is actually a very capable device, the only reason it underperforms is because it's hardware isn't fully taken advantage of (but even that's improving now). Once I flash a ROM and spend a whole 10 minutes customizing the device to how I like it, it runs like a dream.
OP: As the others have said in this thread, if you aren't willing to tweak the device, and customize the living crap out of it in order to get a faster Kaiser, maybe a feature phone or iPhone would be more suitable for you.
Dave
PS: (I have a 286, and it runs fine!)
I have a tytn, tytnII, titan, touch pro and a fuze. I must admit that every one of these devices were less than spectacular in the as-shipped form from the service provider. Thats why I found this site so I could make them all perform up to their hype.
Every one of them, thanks to the wonderful developers here, will outperform an iphown now. I have had very little problems like the OP described that were not simply fixed by changing a setting here or there. I like my tilt better than any of the others I have had (except the fuze.)
My 8525 (TyTn) works great and it has less power than the TyTnII. You can not get the most out of the phone unless you get rid of the stock OS. That's why XDA Devs rocks. Once the stock OS is gone - the phones rock!
mikechannon said:
This is the Kaiser forum. A forum dedicated to supporting Kaiser owners and providing answers to specific problems.
I'm sure you can see that this is not a supportive thread for TyTn II owners.
I'm not actually sure that expressing views about strongly disliking HTC and WM is a wise idea on a website dedicated to both those things.
However, and lest I be accused of wielding evil Moderator censorship powers, I will move this thread to off-topic. There it will take up its place accumulating wise and sensible contributions to the debate.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Mike,
It's not about being supportive or not. It's about giving a broad range of perspective so if tomorrow somebody wants to buy the device they can search for information and have a better idea of what they are getting into.
Unfortunately at the time I bought mine the information available was somehow biased towards people who think that is ok to spend 750 $ for a gadget that right away needs all sorts of non OEM twicks and upgrades to perform close to its marketing claims.
In any sector or product if one buys at the very top end of the price range should expect to end up with something that works well right away.
The TY TN II does not. HTC is a company with great potential but it should take a lot longer before releasing a product such this.
I belive that censorship does not help the people behind this site that are happy with the product either. My post is not off topic. They are first hand comments on the device from somebody that owns one, just like anybody else here.
Because of lack of unbiased information many people like me or even less prepared to mess with the device will buy it and up here nagging everyone else for help. Even for the silliest problems.
Let's be clear. This is a very niche product, HTC marketing pitch is misleading. It is not a piece of consumer goods suitable for the majority of people. It has to become a pet project for the buyer otherwise will not delivery to it's full potential.
I would suggest you put this thread in a very accessible location.
I am sorry if have hurt any TY TN II lovers
I suspect that a lot of people here see the device like their own baby.
Cheers
gogol said:
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
mikechannon said:
Well yes in the interests of allowing different points of view, the thread has been kept, we are all entitled to a reasoned point of view.
However IMHO it is off-topic in the sense that keeping it in the TyTn II forum which is specifically to provide help for those who already have a TyTn II would be inappropriate. I did consider the General forum, but againthat is for those who already own an HTC phone and are seeking support perhaps for Windows Mobile issues.
So by elimination if nothing else "off-topic" was the choice. Those searching the likes of Google will still find it regardless of the forum it's in.
I still have my doubts that this is appropriate as a forum to choose for such a review/feedback because it can encourage flaming type posts. I'm sure you know what I mean - would you go to a Rolls Royce owners site to express your views about why they are not good cars? Maybe you would, but I think it would be better to choose a site that reviews different brands, rather than telling folk who already own the product that you think what they have is no good. I doubt folk trying to choose a product would consider a dedicated site to be an unbiased place to gather reliable reviews.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mike,
I happen to be one of those Rolls Royce owners (I wish!) that's why I think I should have a say on this site. My views are counter current that's all. I don't feel undermined here despite being a totally "visible minority". If people were to get inflamed about it then there is always the almighty moderator that should straighten things out.
I still think my post does not belong to the off topic section because I think the view of somebody like myself can be beneficial to the majority here. I know that this could be difficult to acknowledge for somebody.
On the wake of the recent purchase and proud of my shiny new device, in the first 6 months of ownership of the Ty TN II I was like most other people here, reading, downloading, twicking. After a while I realized that what I was doing was going against the very reason I bought the device in the first place which was make my life easier and make me save time.
At that point and tired of the constant work that the machine demanded I gave up on it. I bought a new laptop and used the PDA like a phone and navigator only.
If I had found posts like mine before I would have made my natural progression earlier and I would have saved myself a lot of time and headaches.
I am sure there are other people in that position and they should be able to benefit from opinions like mine without having to Google them. To the hard core PDArers it should make no difference. I understand there is a pleasure in molding a machine to you own specification. I respect that; years ago I would have kept on doing it.
I hope you understand my plea and thanks for your work. I and many others did benefit from this great site.
Unfortunately I don't think that I can ethically contribute to the HTC or MS cause in a positive way. The fact that they created the need for a site like this is totally unacceptable.
I believe that it is wrong to offer volunteer work to greedy corporations that totally don't give a damn about their customer base. HTC and MS are clear examples.
I wish the talented work of people like XDA-developers will go towards developing software and service for no profit organizations and not to patch up the shortcomings and disservice of these corporations.
Bill Gates has become a philanthropist to wash his sins. I hope his example will be followed by all the other big fish in the corporate world.
Cheers
olliric said:
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
jaugusto said:
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
olliric said:
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
jaugusto said:
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes the BBs do USB File transfer when plugged into a PC with nothing extra installed. You get prompted on the device to enable Mass Storage Mode.
jaugusto said:
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think corporations do plan to make every gadget quickly outdated. Hardware and software companies help each other in that regard. Software is designed to require more and more computing power even though is often not necessary. We could be a lot farther ahead after 20 years of consumer computers. MS is probably the main cause of this troubled development and we are still stuck with it. Window mobile may be better than others but is still very far from being good. That was also the idea of a MS project manager friend of mine who eventually left Seattle and MS. I remember venting my frustration with him and he had no excuse to offer.
I did do ROM upgrades early on but then I had to remove them after developing other problems. If one day I run into somebody that will do it for me I may give them another try. I just had it with this PDA I don't to waste anymore time.
I have a lot of other things in my life and I just don't want to spend time on something that should save me time. It just does not make any sense to me.
When this PDA will crap out I'll be very careful of what I may buy. I think I have learned the lesson. The only thing that I have appreciated is the navigator which is neither HTC or MS. I travel a lot so I keep the bastard only for that. I have to bear the bulk and weight of it for navigation and the occasional email.
I don't know if there are PDAs that can be used like a USB pen. I really hope so. It is such a simple thing, if there aren't any then it's really bad out there.
Thanks for your help
Cheers
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
mbarvian said:
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to hear that I am not the only unhappy here. Actually I believe there are a lot more but they don't want to admit it.
So you guys de-lurk yourself and get it off your chest. You'll feel better. After all we just bought the PDA, we did not do anything terrible. There wasn't much choice anyway. If I made it or the OS then I would feel really bad about myself.
Cheers
Related
In the current issue of PCPro magazine (UK) the Orange version of the Kaiser is chosen as the best smartphone in a comparative test.
I notice that the test lists the huge range of features that the Kaiser has as a big plus point, plus the keyboard.
Having had the Kaiser now for about three weeks, I am coming to the conclusion that the Kaiser is the technological equivalent of a Spork. A spork is a cross between a spoon and a fork. At the risk of being a little unfair, its not a very good spoon and its not a very good fork, but at least its one utensil rather than two. I wonder if the PCPro guys really tested out all of the Kaiser's functions (such as the camera - slow and no flash); or the video; or the less than intuitive functions, of which there appear to be quite a lot? In my experience, easy to use it ain't (although I admit to being a smartphone novice).
It has occured to me that the Kaiser is probably best suited to techno geeks rather than to your average user. I remember that years ago I bought an Iriver MP3 player rather than an Ipod, because it had more functions. Most of the iRiver message boards were concerned with how best to tweak the player, so that it would be easier to use (as easy to use and as intuitive as the Ipod). Eventually, I got fed up with the iRiver and bought an Ipod.
My conclusion after three weeks is that the Kaiser sells mainly on multi-functionality, whereas the Iphone sells on useability (and looks). As a non-techie (as most punters are) I think that the Iphone would probably have suited me better for internet and email. I hope to change my mind as I persevere with trying to get its various functions to work.
Who are you calling a techno geek?!?!
Oh yeah, that is me in a nutshell!
Thats why i got the Tilt over the iPhone though. I knew that i could customize and do tons more stuff on the tilt over the iPhone...maybe that just means i have too much time on my hands...
ps, i also got an iRiver over the iPod. my reasons were that i could treat it like a hd instead of tying myself to iTunes (i though you can go around iTunes, but thats besides the point).
If you wanted to browse the internet, the Kaiser is the way to go.
3.5G Kaiser v 2.5G iPhone............
rienzi said:
the Kaiser is the technological equivalent of a Spork.
It has occured to me that the Kaiser is probably best suited to techno geeks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possibly, as I do like to play with things! I kinda think of it as a Swiss Army Knife. Lots of little functions, and possibly a compromise as a result. Could it have a better GPS, Wifi, etc? Yes, but I bet that would effect battery life. Better multimedia support? Personally, I haven't had an issue with it, but out of the box an iPhone is tied to iTunes (does it have the issues with MP3's and WMA files that iPods have / had?). I like being able to sync my Kaiser with Windows Media player, or just pop my memory card into my laptop and copy over an MP3 manually.
Can I play with my phone, and just factory reset if it needs to go in for repair? Yes. Could I do that with the iPhone? Well, wasn't there that little issue with iPhones getting bricked when applying an official Apple upgrade on certain networks if you had 3rd party apps installed and voiding the warrenty?
You do need to play a bit with a Kaiser to get the most out of it, but this is a wonderful community and resource for doing just that. What are your issues with Internet and email? Have you tried the Opera browser to get around the internet issues? Personally, for sending / receiving email with and without attachments I have no issues. Maybe this is because I am a techno geek and have used PDA's for years. I'm sure that once you get your Kaiser setup the way you need, you'll be perfectly happy. I know that this has been the best 'out of the box' device I have had and any geek stuff I have done is just personal preference, I could have lived without it and not compromised the end result.
who called me techno geek!!?? x3!!
yup the kaiser is more like a swiss army knife x)!
with a world of possibilities!!..
just think a little .. microsoft has more time on the mobile market than apple x)
Steve-C said:
Possibly, as I do like to play with things! I kinda think of it as a Swiss Army Knife. Lots of little functions, and possibly a compromise as a result. Could it have a better GPS, Wifi, etc? Yes, but I bet that would effect battery life. Better multimedia support? Personally, I haven't had an issue with it, but out of the box an iPhone is tied to iTunes (does it have the issues with MP3's and WMA files that iPods have / had?). I like being able to sync my Kaiser with Windows Media player, or just pop my memory card into my laptop and copy over an MP3 manually.
Can I play with my phone, and just factory reset if it needs to go in for repair? Yes. Could I do that with the iPhone? Well, wasn't there that little issue with iPhones getting bricked when applying an official Apple upgrade on certain networks if you had 3rd party apps installed and voiding the warrenty?
You do need to play a bit with a Kaiser to get the most out of it, but this is a wonderful community and resource for doing just that. What are your issues with Internet and email? Have you tried the Opera browser to get around the internet issues? Personally, for sending / receiving email with and without attachments I have no issues. Maybe this is because I am a techno geek and have used PDA's for years. I'm sure that once you get your Kaiser setup the way you need, you'll be perfectly happy. I know that this has been the best 'out of the box' device I have had and any geek stuff I have done is just personal preference, I could have lived without it and not compromised the end result.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, the Swiss Army Knife analogy is a good one. The scissors and screwdrivers never seem to work well, but the knife is a good bit of kit overall.
I really do want to love my Kaiser and am making some progress with it. I can now receive the emails (i.e. those of my main pc email account) but still can't manage to send them. I keep getting the following error message from the server: '550 Administrative prohibition - relaying not allowed'. No idea what it means. I think I may have the outgoing mail server wrong somehow.
Incidentally, if I click on streamimg media and see the rtsp:// what do I do next in order to get, say a BBC broadcast?
well i constantly sign on aim and u cant do that on iPhone...among other things.
It has it's faults, we all know, but what phone with all these functions doesn't?? OH, thinking about it...no other phone has all these functions in this small footprint!!!
JUst a simple comment...I LOVE IT!!!
Sold two laptops as a result of using this phone and made a profit!!!
Can't beat that...
AT&T Tilt phone is Grand Champion
Top 10 Cell Phone Favorites for 2007 (PC World)
AT&T Tilt phone is Grand Champion.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140584-c,cellphones/article.html#
To me its like the difference between one of those really basic calculators with the really big buttons on the front (iphone) and a full on scientific graphing calculator that does everything (Kaiser). Yes the first one will do for most people and is easier to use, but for anyone who needs the functionality the scientific is the only option
i really do love my kaiser x)...
i had an iphone but.. i gave it to my sis..
its easy to use.. but.. i got bored with the same things allways!!
(youtube, phone, phone, youtube, music, etc)
now.. on my kaiser i have a C# compiler, it is more interesting for mee!
and a lot of games but.. (yup the drivers suck)
now im waiting for those drivers..
i think the kaiser is an amazing FULL Machine.. x)
Best Pda & Best Handheld
tkalli said:
Top 10 Cell Phone Favorites for 2007 (PC World)
AT&T Tilt phone is Grand Champion.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140584-c,cellphones/article.html#
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WINNER OF PDA ESSENTIALS AWARDS 2007 - BEST PDA & BEST HANDHELD
The HTC TyTN II (P4550/Kaiser) was given 9/10 from PDA Essentials with the Editors Choice Award "Quite simply as good as Windows Mobile has to offer, this is a stunning handheld"
rienzi said:
yeah, the Swiss Army Knife analogy is a good one. The scissors and screwdrivers never seem to work well, but the knife is a good bit of kit overall.
I really do want to love my Kaiser and am making some progress with it. I can now receive the emails (i.e. those of my main pc email account) but still can't manage to send them. I keep getting the following error message from the server: '550 Administrative prohibition - relaying not allowed'. No idea what it means. I think I may have the outgoing mail server wrong somehow.
Incidentally, if I click on streamimg media and see the rtsp:// what do I do next in order to get, say a BBC broadcast?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That means you are sending via one server but as if from another.
Change your outgoing server to the correct one and use authentification.
To see streaming media, go to the relevant site and click the relevant link
The tilt is meant for geeks. That's true.
I had an 8525. I've never been so impressed and so happy with a phone. I could do literally everything i wanted. Then the iPhone cam out. I love macs, so I thought I'd give it a shot. I was bought by the intuitive browser and phone capabilities.
However, within the 6 months I had it, I felt the iPhone was directing me moreso than I directed the iPhone. I had to type a certain way for the keyboard (which was the weakpt) and had to deal with slow EDGE connections. Also, besides the cutesy programs like the program where you can take a pic and then put pirate hats on them (o wow.), there wasn't really much to offer.
I recently got a Tilt, now I'm wondering - why did I even stray in the first place?
creed said:
To me its like the difference between one of those really basic calculators with the really big buttons on the front (iphone) and a full on scientific graphing calculator that does everything (Kaiser). Yes the first one will do for most people and is easier to use, but for anyone who needs the functionality the scientific is the only option
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the best analogy right there.
And FWIW, I see no reason to ***** and moan about something NOT being "perfect" None of them are so for the sake of your own health and sanity lower your expectations a bit or you will find yourself constantly dissapointed.
The Kaiser/Tilt is a damn good device that is capable of a whole lot. Which makes it appeal to a very broad base of users Nuff said. You want perfect? Then either customize your Kaiser to fit YOUR needs (and be happy you actually have that option... <cough> iPhone </cough> )
Or design, build/manufacture your own.
rienzi said:
I keep getting the following error message from the server: '550 Administrative prohibition - relaying not allowed'. No idea what it means. I think I may have the outgoing mail server wrong somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep that would be the case! My ISP is plus.net in the UK for internet and email, my mobile phone provider is o2. Now on my laptop, to send email I use the server relay.plus.net. If I use the same one on the Kaiser (unless I'm on my home network connected via my wireless router) I get that error message. Changing the outgoing to server to smtp.o2.co.uk allows me to send email from the Kaiser when I'm out and about. The incoming mail server never changes. So what you need to do is find out what the outgoing mail server is for your mobile p-rovider, enter that in your settings and you should be good to go!
Liked your extra analogy to the swiss knife thingy, it may not be perfect, but what else has all the features that kinda do the job?
I confess
Yep - geek and proud - reckon the Kaiser is the best thing since sliced bread. Many moons ago the non-geeky devices were known amongst my fellow techies as "tarts' systems" politically incorrect expression now but I've been too long in the business to drop it and I've yet to find a more apt repost to people who denounce those of us with a healthy appreciation of technology as geeks!
patcooke said:
Yep - geek and proud - reckon the Kaiser is the best thing since sliced bread. Many moons ago the non-geeky devices were known amongst my fellow techies as "tarts' systems" politically incorrect expression now but I've been too long in the business to drop it and I've yet to find a more apt repost to people who denounce those of us with a healthy appreciation of technology as geeks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an appreciation of technology, but I don't think its good for my health! I am one of those unfortunate persons who love gadgets, but often does not know how to get them to work! At the moment i feel like a failed wannabee geek. I spent hours yesterday trying to get my pc email to synch with my kaiser, without success (the t- mobile wizard didn't work for me!). I still can't get streaming video to work either. I too hope to get to the point where I can say that the kaiser is the best thing since sliced bread
ps pat, I'm in Yorkshire too
The site is up and running, discussion here!
Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.
Looks very good!
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.
Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.
Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James
jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.
Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.
Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner
you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.
I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.
jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
Sorry for sounding so ...angry..but this phone just cost me not only 800 bucks..but 1700 dollars round trip to the place i got it from...so please understand my point of view
Ok so since no one answered my question and my problem with my phone (phone died 5 mins after using it) Please answer me this:
Why should I even think about keeping my htc diamond (thats ofcourse if i decide to replace my current dead one)?
I have a feeling that this phone is so bugged, it should be cheaper, should have some kind of customer support, and should be in a reasonable working condition when you open up the box of this epensive phone and be able to do w/e it is advertises to do.
none of these pointers even come close to the HTC Diamond. It is expensive, Tech support is just halarious (a month to !!REPAIR!! my phone and then the return ground trip- I cant even replace it) and even then, your warranty is not 100% guarenteed, and last but not least, It does not work 100% when you open it up and get ready to use it
I bet if i buy a 350 dollars phone (lets say the LG rumer) id have a better experiance, without touch screen (omg its the endz of ze w0rldz!!!).
I understand what this phone is, or at least have an idea of what it's capable(at least I think, BECAUSE I ONLY USED IT FOR 5 MINS!!), but looking at this phone's forum section, quite a few ppl are having 1 or more issues with this phone.
Am I better off returning this piece of junk and getting something similar for cheaper? (iphone 3G i can grab it from a duty free airport for around 750 USD). Or a blackbarry bold, or the samsung touchscreen one..
seriously When I called HTC, they not only treated me like garbage, the rep sounded happy as if he has just ripped me off with a crappy phone and tried dhis best not to have me try to rma my phone ( and he succeeded, Im returning to the airport i bought this junk from and replacing it/ buying another brand)
But if I am missing something, then please tell me, what makes this phone so special ?
BTW I live in NA, so the freaking 3G for this phone, as u all know doesnt work ---> Another feature right out the ****ing window.
if you dont like it take it back. end of story. if you dont love it, you dont deserve it. buy an iphone, nothing ever goes wrong with those.
yeah i agree go buy an iphone.
it sounds as though it would suit you better
as its made for people like you.
i thought, i hoped that we got past the "whining" period. i was wrong.
in the first 2 month after diamond was out the forum was full with this kind of useless threads. this thread if not killed by a moderator is going to become a chat room where some ppl (mostly noobs) are going to add their frustration, some ppl are going to flame you (the "crazy about diamond" ones), some are going to send you to flash and tweak it (it seems that you don't like the idea) and some are going to plain and simple send you to give it back and end the drama.
in short if u are expecting 20 replays trying to convince you to keep it, you are wrong.
lol what a post.
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Keeping Diamond is not obligatory, if you don't like this phone, simply give it back and buy something you like. It's simple as that.
or perhaps they call them noobs because they seem to be incapable
of sorting out the few problems with stuff off here like the rest of us have.
this is a developers website not a site for those who just see it as a
pretty phone.
let the flame war BEGIN...
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Blazeitup123 said:
let the flame war BEGIN...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sometimes i surprise myself....i am waiting another day or two and then i'll have to say it: i told you so!
Token42 said:
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from cambridge dictionary
whiner
noun [C] DISAPPROVING
a person, especially a child, who complains or expresses dissatisfaction continually
didn't call anybody whiner on my post (whining period).
didn't call the thread opener a noob.
1. i never said diamond is perfect but this is not the place to complain about the quality of diamond. htc diamond is a htc product. whine/complain to the htc. this is a developers forum, here you'll find ppl that are continuously improving the device. what's the point of such a thread here? what's the point? we all know too well the flows of the diamond.
2. looking at my sig you can see a partial list of the devices i own. none of them was so challenging like the diamond and in my eyes that's the beauty of it.
3. because i bought one of the first diamond arrived i paid 5000 NIS/3.5=1428$! not cheap. i also wanted to return the diamond but this was in the first days of diamond. there were no cooked ROMs and no smart tweaks and advanced configurations.... i also was a noob.. i search, i asked, i got flamed, i experimented and i can say that today i have N O N E of the problems you described. only yesterday i tried 4 new ROMs. today i am settled for at least one month with swiftbl's latest. no lag on GPS, no lag on scrolling, listening some trance with the a2dp without lag or skips (using coreplayer). didn't like the htc player so f...k. it, i bought the coreplayer.
4. sometimes i think that diamond is not a device, diamond is a kit, a "do it by yourself" gadget. don't buy it if you don't have time to assembly it.
stop complaining h e r e ! not satisfied? do something! complain to htc (not here) or return the device or invest some precious time to transform yr expensive toy from the legendary frog to the handsome prince. and no, kissing it is not enough!
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Davey101 said:
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Of course this is a developer-forum, not intended for exchanging critics on a device, without wanting or excepting to solve the criticized problems. But sometimes it goes off-topic, someone complains and a so called flamewar is created. But even a flamewar is nothing else but a discussion in a discussion-forum. I see no problem in this behavour of forums.
I think responsible people on the manufacturer-side are aware of common problems, discussed in forums like this. Because they are owning such a device by their selfs, or they are interested in, because it's their job. So perhaps critizising really anoying issues can't be done to an extend, high enough.
It's true - devices like PDA's can't be perfect, they are too complicated. But even a mixer is too complicated to be perfect.
When I buy a mixer and it's somewhat too loud or a little weak, I can say: "Hey its not what I'm expected, but it's OK for the money." But when I have to switch the mixer on 3 minutes before I want to use it, cause it has a power-on lag, or if it allways looses the mixing attachment I say its bull****.
When I buy a top-class PDA promoted for GPS, PIM and MP3 and I can do nothing of it without big problems, I think also it's bull****.
OK - one could say "Its not a problem for all, it's only 50% with GPS-lag" - hey that makes me much more enthusastic to try other htc-products.
As someone allready suggested, I can simply buy another pda - yes I can can and will, but thats a reason not to complain about a product I've bought?
fhsieh said:
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st rule before you buy something
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
liamhere said:
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Token42 said:
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
KukurikU said:
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+.
Couldn't put it in a better way!
Coming back to the actual Diamond "problems" mentioned:
Even with the first couple of original HTC roms, I never experienced any GPS lag, mp3 lag etc etc. Only the start-up lag is rather annoying, but hey... how fast does your Windows Vista PC boot up?
Please try to compare Diamond's GPS next to an N95, and post the results on accuracy and lag (I have done so!).
Finally, I would agree with "liamhere"'s statement of "P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.", but I would like to add:
Make sure it's NOT an N series... and don't buy it (actually never buy ANYTHING expensive)from somewhere so far away, unless is online, so FedEx, DHL or whoever, can come to the rescue
liamhere said:
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, got this wrong.
If most people are happy with their diamond and doesn't encounter any of the known problems its fine and nice. Personaly I really start to get a little bit angry about myself, to have spent so much money for it.
I've bought this device not for the phone-functionality but as a pda and this was a bad bad decission. Not only because of flaws I was not aware of when I've bought it but because of limitations I knew of. I was only to impatient to wait for other models and do enough research.
I don't think HTC will spent many resources on bugfixing for example the gps-lag, cause their are so many phones of them in development and they have allready made their deal with the diamond.
So I return to my beloved Loox and use the diamond really only as a phone, better than nothing.
Mods - please forgive if this thread is misplaced!
I've gotten at G1 (Dream) and no longer have any use for this AT&T Tilt. I would sell it on Craigslist or eBay, but frankly I have no malice toward the world, and therefore will not unleash this drastic POS on some unsuspecting fool like me.
Not looking for much - I figure there is a developer here who would be happy to relieve me of it, along with two batteries and a docking station for a couple hundred bucks (I dunno?) If I'm asking too much, I apologize. It's definitely not mint, it's been beat up a bit, but is in excellent working order. The software has no issues that I'm aware of. I refuse to sell it for market price because I feel it's an injustice to do so - AT&T should have paid ME to use this stupid pofc, but I do want to get rid of it.
I'm in SoCal, local pick up in exchange for cash is preferred, would also prefer to give it to a developer who will put it to good use as a platform for testing and developing on WM6 or whatever you like. If nobody wants it, you're welcome to join me for an "Office Space" moment whilst I toss it into the middle of PCH and watch cars and heavy trucks smash it to bits. Whatever is left (I would never litter!) will be somehow otherwise consumed appropriately (perhaps a vat of acid?) and summarily disposed of.
Thank you for your interest; again, should this thread be misplaced, I apologize - instruct and I will comply kindly!
Thank you!
OH - and a BIG shout out to everyone here that helped me try to live with this thing for a few months... it was a few months too long, but I appreciate your valiant efforts nonetheless - you certainly made this thing a LOT less bad! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!
To paraphrase the Bard...
The dude doth protest too much, methinks
Nah - it's astounding the difference between a device that works as it should and one that doesn't. WM6 is, imho, complete garbage. And my sentiments were completely reinforced as soon as I tried Android. The Dream just does what it's supposed to as a mobile phone - for instance - I CAN DIAL. It's nice, you know?
Anybody want this thing?
I am interestedin your tilt, I will send you a PM as well to see if we can come to an agreement.
delaner said:
The Dream just does what it's supposed to as a mobile phone - for instance - I CAN DIAL. It's nice, you know?
Anybody want this thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've only had my Tilt for two weeks, so forgive my ignorance, but I am fully able to dial on my phone (quite easily, I might add!). Does my phone do something unusual that other Tilt models don't do?
Just like in the PC and laptop world, Windows boxes are typically awful "out of the box". With knowledge, customization, and tweaking, though, most users should be able to find a setup that suits them. Obviously, for people looking for something that "just works" out of the box, the Apple and G1 products are great.
Best of luck with your new phone, and here's hoping your Tilt finds a good home.
- DDB
When I originally chose the successor to my aging gSmart phone, I did a lot(!) of research on functionality, features and technological viability.
But somehow it never appeared to me to check out the viability of the underlying Operating System (WinMo) itself - given my early history with PalmOS and how Palm Inc. had just surrendered to Microzoft over nite, it never dawned on me that WinMo itself might one day share the same fate as the doomed Palm Operating System.
But now I stumbled across this Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile
Now did I just spend $800 on a phone (and am about to waste another $100 on renewing my non-transferable licenses) that won't have any Operating System Updates coming past 2010?!
In that article HTC is alleged to not just be the greatest supplier of WinMo phones, with 80% they're pretty much *it* - meaning no HTC no WinMo phone market no more.
Now what does HTC say about their commitment to the WinMo platform?
And if HTC decides not to release e.g. WM7 for the HD2, will the ROM cookers of XDA come to our aid and port for us (please) one of those leaked versions?
So many questions and so few answers
WM will still be developed. ROM updates will be released. WM7 will be released for the HD2 probably officially and for free. I really don't see the problem. Besides the HTC Sense hides WM so much that if there wasn't the start icon on the screen you wouldn't even notice it works on WM...
gregormax said:
WM will still be developed. ROM updates will be released. WM7 will be released for the HD2 probably officially and for free. I really don't see the problem. Besides the HTC Sense hides WM so much that if there wasn't the start icon on the screen you wouldn't even notice it works on WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Microsoft have rested on their laurels for too long, and WM7 might be too far away to do any good. But don't worry, WM6.6 is just around the corner.... What is that gonna bring???
Android has come from nowhere, fueled by the Iphone?
WM is just cluncky right now, HTC can only cover over the little cracks of WM, but the big cracks still exist. One day soon, even HTC will say "Windows... ahhh Feck it!!!"
I've always poo-pooed Android because I would not want to leave the WM apps I have on my device. But those apps I have are apps that rectify WM shortcomings in the first place - shortcomings that don't appear on Android.
There are only two apps I can't live without and would keep me using WM a device, and they are My Sport Training and My Personal Diet. And in 2010 they are going to be ported over to Android. When I see them on Android, I will sit up....
I just think all the other operating systems are getting more polished, but WM is still a turd. And an old turd at that....
A final point that has just come to me.... People say that WM allows you to alter the settings and just tinker.... why? Because it is crap and you need to spend so much time getting it right? Because people here at forums like this can do better and produce software better than MS or HTC????
Am I ranting??? Am I coming to the end of WM?
Discuss...
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's particularly offensive and you should apologise to gregormax immediately for that!
The "article" you linked suggest that it may be possible that windows mobile will no longer be developed. It's an analyst suggesting a possibility - it is not fact, or even likely.
You should read the whole thing again, but don't take it as gospel just because an analyst was "quoted" on a wiki page.
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good analogies... My Amiga 500 Plus had a 170mb hardrive. Huge!!!!! I only filled 40mb of it! lol... And I could run a country off that! And that was only 18 years ago... LOL
I don't see what the fuss is about. What more do you want it to do?
It sends emails, sms (some times ) & mms
Connects to the internet.
Has wifi
Can be used as a router
Takes photos & video
Plays videos
Has weather & stocks
Finger friendly (If you say its not you have chubby fingers and should start eating lettice)
Plays games
Theres loads more. So what if WM7 doesn't come out on this it's a great phone as it is (apart from sms issue)
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
balane said:
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u forgot making coffee...
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all you get support and new updates from HTC. A new version of WM? OK, what for? You write about Atari, Palm, etc. but this just shows you don't know what you're talking about. What great feature do you see for phones coming before WM7 is released (this year)? Because right now with the 6.5 you can do EVERYTHING the competition offers and even more (compare the HD2 to the iPhone for instance). Your arguments about Amiga and Atari are quite... let's say childish. The last popular Amiga was released more than 15 years ago so what do you want to prove with that. The problem here is not the software but the hardware. In 3 years the HD2 won't be probably even decent compared to newer devices and system updates won't help. Do you think that with a new Amiga OS (i.e. Workbench) you would now be able to open 1GB files on an Amiga 1200 with 2MB of RAM? Wish you luck .
In matter of OS I really don't see any update which would be a must before WM7 is released and as we all know WM7 will be probably available for the HD2 for free. So if you see some indispensable updates for WM6.5 be my guest - I really wonder what it could be. Besides it's really smart to rely on Wikipedia for official news... afaik WM is still in development and WM6.6 will be released soon - just as I wrote in the first post - quote: "WM will still be developed". The problem is that for no apparent reason you think WM won't be developed anymore and that's a quite naive statement.
johncmolyneux said:
That's particularly offensive and you should apologise to gregormax immediately for that!
The "article" you linked suggest that it may be possible that windows mobile will no longer be developed. It's an analyst suggesting a possibility - it is not fact, or even likely.
You should read the whole thing again, but don't take it as gospel just because an analyst was "quoted" on a wiki page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is it offensive if I ask someone who in essence says "If I don't see my OpSys then I don't have to worry about it not being supported any more" if he tries to be dense on purpose?
That is not offensive at all, and I will most certainly not apologize for making a valid point here.
Quite to the contrary I think that gregormax should think about how qualified his remarks were, which most certainly did not address the issue of my posting at all - but just tried to belittle it all.
And I did read the whole darn article, including the part where every(!) industry analyst agreed that 2010 is the out time for Windows Mobile and WinMo7 the last major release of it.
And I have seen this cycle happening before.
As soon as the OpSys manufacturer pulls the plug on their platform, all the major SW developers will stop developing for it - and in most cases will also stop supporting their apps.
Regardless of how much money users just paid for their software.
So I do think that this is a valid point of concern for anyone spending close to a thousand dollars on their HTC device.
Towserspvm2000 said:
Good analogies... My Amiga 500 Plus had a 170mb hardrive. Huge!!!!! I only filled 40mb of it! lol... And I could run a country off that! And that was only 18 years ago... LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realize that there are still Amiga computers sold even today?
They have two companies in Italy still marketing that platform.
Their designs look quite impressive, until you get to the actual technical details.
And then you realize how hopelessly outdated the whole darn thing is.
And "running a whole country of 170mb"?
I doubt that very much. Even back in the days, it took more than that just to manage a single city. That is what IBM mainframes were made for.
All is said but here my 5 cent.
A company like MS does have the claim to be present in all possible software markets regardless of the fact wheter with or without success. They will never drop it even if they lose money because to them its an image thingy....
I'm also pretty sure that Microsoft will bring at some point their own smartphone which is currently nothing else but a rumour but gonna come true once and that will be running on such an OS developed by MS as well.
Cheers
LEE
Towserspvm2000 said:
Microsoft have rested on their laurels for too long, and WM7 might be too far away to do any good. But don't worry, WM6.6 is just around the corner.... What is that gonna bring???
Android has come from nowhere, fueled by the Iphone?
WM is just cluncky right now, HTC can only cover over the little cracks of WM, but the big cracks still exist. One day soon, even HTC will say "Windows... ahhh Feck it!!!"
I've always poo-pooed Android because I would not want to leave the WM apps I have on my device. But those apps I have are apps that rectify WM shortcomings in the first place - shortcomings that don't appear on Android.
There are only two apps I can't live without and would keep me using WM a device, and they are My Sport Training and My Personal Diet. And in 2010 they are going to be ported over to Android. When I see them on Android, I will sit up....
I just think all the other operating systems are getting more polished, but WM is still a turd. And an old turd at that....
A final point that has just come to me.... People say that WM allows you to alter the settings and just tinker.... why? Because it is crap and you need to spend so much time getting it right? Because people here at forums like this can do better and produce software better than MS or HTC????
Am I ranting??? Am I coming to the end of WM?
Discuss...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I would have most certainly accused you of "ranting" myself, until I read what all those Industry Analysts and the major phone suppliers said about their (lacking) support for WinMo - that and the ever Shrinking Market Share of WM.
Now I feel I just wasted another thousand dollars (phone + SW licenses) on a freaking Dinosaur.
A device outdated by its Operating System before it even hit the shelves
lee1980 said:
All is said but here my 5 cent.
A company like MS does have the claim to be present in all possible software markets regardless of the fact wheter with or without success. They will never drop it even if they lose money because to them its an image thingy....
...
Cheers
LEE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They used to say the same About Apple and the Newton, until Apple dropped that platform over night.
Same with IBM and OS/2.
I just don't see how they can survive their ever shrinking market share and I never knew that 80% of all WinMo phones are made by one single company - HTC.
balane said:
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care about Sandwiches or what happens a decade from now.
But that my old TomTom App & Maps no longer work on the HTC HD2 and that it is now highly unlikely that TomTom will ever offer support for that platform, yes that does concern me a lot.
The same goes for my multiple talking language dictionaries I own, as I do travel excessively.
If they are not ported over, I just wasted close to $200 for language packs I can't even use as weights (should have bought the paper version instead ;-(
There are many, many such applications that I used to run on my old gSmart phone, and was waiting to be ported to the WVGA HD2 platform.
But after reading that article I highly, highly doubt that many SW vendors will be in a hurry to invest development capacity for a dieing platform.
pharao said:
They used to say the same About Apple and the Newton, until Apple dropped that platform over night.
Same with IBM and OS/2.
I just don't see how they can survive their ever shrinking market share and I never knew that 80% of all WinMo phones are made by one single company - HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well but those examples are a bit different. OS/2 was dropped because microsoft finished the coop. with IBM (simply a strategic decision for focusing on windows) and the newton because of the not given market acceptance. None of the because of the big competition on the market like now....
Maybe they should corner the HTC ;-)
You are so wrong my friend. I have an ex colleague that works for Route 66. They received all the Android prototypes and WM phones to get software developed on them. Android will get navigation software and my guess is that the HD2 will also get navigation software for the new wm7. He can't tell me more, because of the confidentiality.
I really think you are exaggerating and the lack of inside info, or any kind of confirmation, strong rumor, or whatever is making you think this way.
Just give it a couple of months until we see wm7 and we get an official confirmation for the hd2.
pharao said:
Why is it offensive if I ask someone who in essence says "If I don't see my OpSys then I don't have to worry about it not being supported any more" if he tries to be dense on purpose?
That is not offensive at all, and I will most certainly not apologize for making a valid point here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I told you to apologise because this is supposed to be a mature and helpful forum, and not filled with people who immediately start name-calling as soon as there is a person who disagrees with their point of view. People who resort to that are singularly responsible for the only bad aspect of this whole forum.
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You WERE offensive and you SHOULD apologise. If you had any level of maturity you would at least accept that name-calling is pretty pathetic and pointless.
lorin.bute said:
You are so wrong my friend. I have an ex colleague that works for Route 66. They received all the Android prototypes and WM phones to get software developed on them. Android will get navigation software and my guess is that the HD2 will also get navigation software for the new wm7. He can't tell me more, because of the confidentiality.
I really think you are exaggerating and the lack of inside info, or any kind of confirmation, strong rumor, or whatever is making you think this way.
Just give it a couple of months until we see wm7 and we get an official confirmation for the hd2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I spoke with TomTom about support for the HD2 they told me flat out "no support and none planned".
And I need turn by turn mapping software that includes places like Eastern Europe, Africa and South America.
Not just maps for downtown London or Los Angeles.
And there are not so many GPS capable map application providers out there who "cover the whole globe".
The WinMo support by companies like TomTom was the reason why I bought my first WinMo phone to begin with, as I had originally set my mind on a Linux phone.
If HTC can not secure that kind of support for the HD2, then I made a serious misjudgment in spending that much money for this device :-(