Database Develop

E-mail HTC your decision to boycott them here!

Dear dissatisfied HTC Customer,
Before reading this, remember I am NOT encouraging you to boycott HTC. But I think most of you, who are going to do that, are really knowing what your reasons are.
As For me it really seems that we paid for something that HTC did not provide, I think we all have seen great dissatisfaction and complaints here on the forums, which some of us are unable not to agree with. Some people even culminate the dissatisfaction simply by ending the customer relation with HTC.
I figured it would be nice to see how badly did their Kaiser backfire, and the way they handled their customers with this. So please, if you feel that you have had enough and are going separate ways with HTC, use the below link to inform HTC about your decision. Also remember to tell them why you chose to do so. Remember to add that you are talking about Kaiser. And also remember to tell them that you most likely won’t be recommending HTC devices to anyone, and will probably do your best that no-one gets screwed like you did, if you feel like that. That should teach them a lesson!
Also after doing that report back on this thread! So we get to see how it affected their customer base in this forum and hopefully even more widely, a bigger picture. With some math we can speculate what was the damage for them. Hopefully this will help them also to see what they did, and see it would have been everybodys benefit if they did things right at the first place.
Below are the links to inform HTC about your decision. You probably best to aim the e-mail to their "customer service"!
European ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/europe/CS_Mail.aspx
North American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/us/CS_Mail.aspx
Latin American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/la/CS_Mail.aspx
Asian ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/tw/CS_Mail.aspx
Middle-East and African ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/mea-en/CS_Mail.aspx
The reason why I find this really important is that, we really need to get the information on their face. That is where petition signing and things like that fail! I bet after receiving few thousand of this kind of e-mails the information will be passed to the persons concerned. That will not probably help us, but prevent them repeating what they did. Link to this thread would also be good on any other HTC/Kaiser related forum, so we get a collection of all dissatisfied ex-customers overall.
Sincerely Yours,
Henry
Ultimately dissatisfied HTC-EX-customer
ps.
you are still "allowed" to use your current HTC devices the best way you can imagine, since most of us paid a good price for it! For me that would be a paperweight or as a "viviparous lizard's tail".

I just informed HTC-europe that I will never be their customer again! I WONT!
Edit.
Actually, what I did say was, I will boycott them until the justice has happened in this case. Too bad it seems that will never happen. But that will give them at least a little reason to do back the bad things they did to us. They would get me back!

Done.
I am in charge of mobile devices and syncing with Exchange for a 2500+ employee company. I had started migrating people to s620's but have since moved them to HP iPAQ Messengers until a non-HTC device comes out that fits our needs.
So, while I'm not buying any more, I'm making sure nobody at the company (even personal purchases) are HTC.
-Mc

sent to http://www.htc.com/sea/CS_Mail.aspx
hope others will follow........

Sent message to the North American link.

Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone, ATT Tilt, it's an upgrade from my last smartphone/ppc (VOQ Professional Phone) which actually I still have and would still be using had the company not gone out of business, and well the phone doesn't have bluetooth, wifi or a camera either... if it did have those three things I've still be using it now really even if the company went under...
I don't get the Boycott though.. are people REALLY that unhappy with their phones? sure I see lots of complaints about things but I see that with EVERY phone on the market today, there IS NO perfect phone out there and never will be because someone will find something wrong no matter what...

dampeal said:
Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone...
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Please do not go offtopic too much! I understand that there are A LOT of arguments why the Kaiser could be alright as a mobile device, but that is not the point here. The point is that any person has the right to boycott what ever company for any reason he/she finds worth it. I'm collecting that info here NOT DISCUSSING whether the device is worthy or not. Made up my mind already.

I admire the resolve of all that are willing to stand by thier principles. Personnaly, the choice of my next phone is limited to what my carrier has to offer as by buying from them, I get a large discount.
As my carrier is T-Mobile UK, that means my next upgrade will probably be a HTC device (maybe vario 4) for around 100gbp as opposed to a none HTC device from a store for around 400gbp.

When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.

redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.
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Click to collapse
Lol... I agree...I will never say never... If HTC launched a TyTN II killer I'd probably get it..If will never buy a Kaiser again though if it helps

redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****.
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That's strange. Because when I visit http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376, I see that there are four sections: one for discussion about accessories, one for discussion about software, one for discussion about ROMs, and this one for general discussion.
I notice that the developers tend to hang out in the software and ROMs sections, and that this general discussion forum is for general discussion.
Do you not have access to all four sections?

redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. ..
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Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.

My message ... Europe Customer.
Drivers for Kaiser? No?
Then thank You, I will find my next device somewhere else, where I will really get what I paid for.

rakdoll said:
Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.
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Click to collapse
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394543&highlight=stuck+bootloader
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228402&highlight=redbandana#post2228402
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228280&highlight=redbandana#post2228280
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394657&page=2
and then some.
However, I do bash n00bs when there are posts bashing HTC. Sorry to offend you in anyway.

^^ I understand your frustration and i share similar sentiments with you. A similar thread was posted yesterday(you can find it on page 2) and the day before yesterday on the ROM dev. forum. It gets annoying after a while, thats all.

redbandana said:
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs. ... . .
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Alright, It seems really we just happen to have our personal opinions, which we are completely righteous. I must admit I totally see your initial point, how this forum is built over the dedication of people who simply love to learn new things. It is totally frustrating nowadays to see people just complaining, without doing a **** about the real issues. I hope I didn't do exactly that, by starting this thread. The real reason to that is just, I would love to scare the **** out of HTC, make them see that they will go down if they don't respect us the way they should.
I do recognize what you stand for, and I must say there must not be anything that I wouldn't share with you. The thing that started this, must be that I have always been a man who stands behind his words, at least most of the time, and I assume the same from others. That includes all the big companies, groups and individuals. It really makes me sad to see where this world is going just because the only thing that matters to people is money. Huge corporations, sucking all the money they can, that's the end of people trying to provide just themselves.. no.. they want all that they can get. In the end, the one who pays the costs is dudes like us.
I honestly also didn't mean to offend anyone, and if it seemed so, I truly apologize. So in the end of the day, it seems like we are alone, with our Kaisers, trying to get the best out of it. So let's just keep on tuning it, until we are happy. That seems to be the initial purpose of this whole place's existence.
really sorry for my funny use of english, you native speakers must be laughing your asses off. But me not native, me from land of the barb-backed fishes. :|

I'm sure this awesome online community only makes up about less then half (if even) of tilt/kaiser/etc owners. There are many people that own this phone because they need it and never go online to mod it. Out of that assumed half I would say a 10th read what is posted or understand a single thing about this phone. That leaves a large number of people who think their phone is "crap" because you tell them it is. Yes I would like to see the phone be faster but I don't think it's crap nor do I think HTC has screwed me over. I don't seem to remember any stats that they released in regards to video or any other performance. Do you? Where are their benchmarks they advertised that weren't acheived by our lovely devices? If you can show them to me then I, and all of my friends will sign your wish list, but until I see them I will just think that everyone is butt hurt over an assumed performance loss.
HTC in my opinion has done something about this. Is it good enough to truely unlock the power of the Kaiser? No, but was it something rather then nothing? Do any of you know the cost of the video driver per unit? No, then how can people claim they paid for something they didn't get. How do you know it wouldn't have been another $50 that would have been tagged on. From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.

ChumleyEX said:
From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.
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This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
If I know it sooner I'd rather choose MWG, or iULTIMATE.. FOR SURE
I don't really care about support after market
But this laggy thing gives me s*it..... the fact that THIS THING DOESN'T have this BEFORE MARKET and they are HIDING THIS FACT!!!!
No multimedia experience only headache if you used it almost every time WITH touch screen... if... u know what I mean... do you??? or u just using it for modem only????
...bump

rajmagi said:
This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
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Click to collapse
+1 Chumley I also go alot on the support forums for the iPhone, because my wife has an iPhone. If you were new to the iPhone you would think that it was the biggest piece of crap around. Thats all that is there is whining and complaining about how it doesn't work, Apple sold us a piece of crap . Here is a petition, let's put Apple out of business. As with all other forums a very vocal MINORITY of people who for whatever reason are having trouble with there phones.
Don't even get me started with the " Check the price, I thought I was getting the best " consumer strategy. I am just glad you don't buy my groceries.
I love my phone ,it does everything they told me it would do.It makes phone
calls, it schedules, MS Office is great, web access is great, I have push email, My gps works great etc... etc.....etc. Do I care that it doesn't have a Nikon D40 inside, do I care that I can't play WoW on it , do I care that I can't watch you tube all day at 3G on a battery charge? No ! This isn't what they promised me and this isn't what I bought my phone for.
Bottom line is, there are a million people out there that are perfectly satisfied with their HTC product. But we never hear from them. They are the silent majority. We here have to put up with thread after thread after thread because the vocal minority thinks we care that they bought a phone they don't like

STOP *****ing about Video Drivers. Who care. The phone is fine. You are forgetting that it's a PHONE! Be glad they added alot of extra stuff you can't find in a majority of phones. I have never had a problem watching videos and movies on my phone. Seriously.. geez

IMEI Spoofing

Well any of you gurus of the cell phone know how to go about this?''
THANKS

You're unlikely to get any help on this, since the number one reason to change an IMEI is to get around a network block on a stolen phone. Most of the people here paid a lot of good money for their phones, and don't want to give any assistance to thieves (whether you are one or not makes no difference, any information posted here could easily help or encourage others to steal and crack these phones).
Changing IMEI's is illegal in many countries anyway, so there's a good chance you'd be committing a crime just by doing it, even if the phone is yours.

IMEI changing is going to get you sore!
EDIT: Oh and search, this has been discussed to death on here before.
Dave

superchargedrs said:
Well any of you gurus of the cell phone know how to go about this?''
THANKS
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Oh, its really easy. Just take your phone to your local police station. They will provide you with the further instructions. HTH.

I vote this thread be closed!

kimtyson said:
I vote this thread be closed!
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+1,
and stop stalking me, My Subscriptions is full of post's last updated by you lol.
Dave

Dave- LOL! I guess you and I are the only ones with time on our hands. Sorry for stalking. Take care.

kimtyson said:
Dave- LOL! I guess you and I are the only ones with time on our hands. Sorry for stalking. Take care.
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Im stuck doing a boring risk analysis (I'm a Software Developer, normally) at work. Every 5 minutes I get distracted and end up on here.
Dave

The good news is that we have successfully hijacked this potentially illegal thread.

ok first we need to debunk a few things. One if some crackhead stole a phone they wouldnt go through all this trouble to sell a phone when they could just sell it on the street or craigs list for that matter. On top of that this is my phone I dont need to steal a few hundrad dollar phone.
Two as far as it being a crime I know that my local law enforcemnt A probablr doesnt even know what a imei is nor do they care as they have enough real crimes and speeding tickets to write, this reminds me of cutting that tag off a matress.
Three I did do a search with allot of this bs on the black helicopters are going to get you crap, but the threads had little usefull data...people how is this diffrent from spoofing a mac or breaking the sim lock lol reach down grab your balls and wake up!
Now I doubt I would go through much trouble to bother with this (I havent even loaded a new rom), so could someone amuse me with this?

why do you want to do this?
i only ask in reason of morbid curiosity...

superchargedrs said:
ok first we need to debunk a few things. One if some crackhead stole a phone they wouldnt go through all this trouble to sell a phone when they could just sell it on the street or craigs list for that matter. On top of that this is my phone I dont need to steal a few hundrad dollar phone.
Two as far as it being a crime I know that my local law enforcemnt A probablr doesnt even know what a imei is nor do they care as they have enough real crimes and speeding tickets to write, this reminds me of cutting that tag off a matress.
Three I did do a search with allot of this bs on the black helicopters are going to get you crap, but the threads had little usefull data...people how is this diffrent from spoofing a mac or breaking the sim lock lol reach down grab your balls and wake up!
Now I doubt I would go through much trouble to bother with this (I havent even loaded a new rom), so could someone amuse me with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the problem is that if xda devs provides information on how to change the imei they could be held accountable. Todays curent climate of terrorism bs that the security services make up to justify thier own existance means if you change ur imei they can slam you with some trumped up charge (or atleast in this country).
People who change thier imei have something to hide, or so they say. Sim unlocking isnt classed as that bad, and for mac spoofing I cant comment.
There was a thread somewhere discussing theory, but I havent seen it in a while. I cant post a link cos im on opera mini. There was some good info in the link i posted by vijay.
EDIT:
Another though, think of it as changing your VIN number on your car, why would you ever want to do such a thing.
Also, I have re-read the vijay post now, and theres a link to a site where you can get more info. Please read V's advice, don't get us into trouble and be nice to each other .
Dave
PS sorry for going off topic.

superchargedrs said:
ok first we need to debunk a few things. One if some crackhead stole a phone they wouldnt go through all this trouble to sell a phone when they could just sell it on the street or craigs list for that matter. On top of that this is my phone I dont need to steal a few hundrad dollar phone.
Two as far as it being a crime I know that my local law enforcemnt A probablr doesnt even know what a imei is nor do they care as they have enough real crimes and speeding tickets to write, this reminds me of cutting that tag off a matress.
Three I did do a search with allot of this bs on the black helicopters are going to get you crap, but the threads had little usefull data...people how is this diffrent from spoofing a mac or breaking the sim lock lol reach down grab your balls and wake up!
Now I doubt I would go through much trouble to bother with this (I havent even loaded a new rom), so could someone amuse me with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh well that makes it all better after you point it out like that.
Maybe we should tell him.

superchargedrs said:
ok first we need to debunk a few things. One if some crackhead stole a phone they wouldnt go through all this trouble to sell a phone when they could just sell it on the street or craigs list for that matter. On top of that this is my phone I dont need to steal a few hundrad dollar phone.
Two as far as it being a crime I know that my local law enforcemnt A probablr doesnt even know what a imei is nor do they care as they have enough real crimes and speeding tickets to write, this reminds me of cutting that tag off a matress.
Three I did do a search with allot of this bs on the black helicopters are going to get you crap, but the threads had little usefull data...people how is this diffrent from spoofing a mac or breaking the sim lock lol reach down grab your balls and wake up!
Now I doubt I would go through much trouble to bother with this (I havent even loaded a new rom), so could someone amuse me with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go grab your own balls, FFS. You think we should "amuse" you with information that makes these phones more stealable, more re-sellable, more targetted by crims? Forget that. If the information is already out there somewhere, you get off your arse and go find it. If it isn't, good.

I love it when people hoard information, being the king of there own little hill. Well I will find what I am looking for later I guess (like I said I am in no rush), I just like knowing what your not sposed to know...ya know lol
As far as stealbility (sp?), you guys DO REALIZE that the people that steal phones and stuff of that ilk don't think that far ahead...right??? If they cant sell the phone the probably just through it out, though in the end of the day its is the same for the guy that gets his phone stolen.
-S

What????????????????? Was that english?

here's the truth:: no one here knows how. but instead of just saying so, they love gettin on
a high horse and spittin out morals..
especially when they dont know what they are talking about.
they will keep extra change from a cashier or an ipod found in a gym, but thats different isnt it?
just sheep here..
some do work hard to provide roms etc..
if you want really out of the ordinary things, you will find few here..
some are groundbreaking, like chainfire and others. if anyone knows where to find info, its them.

superchargedrs said:
I love it when people hoard information, being the king of there own little hill.
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yes i quite like it up here with my encylopedias thanks
no-one on here will know anything about IMEI spoofing or changing, and tbh no-one here with any self respect wants to know. they are (for the most part) happy with their phones/devices and have no need/want to fool around with something so blatantly illegal.
the only people that will want to know are scum-of-the-earth crims.
enough said, i join the vote to close/delete this thread.

amkaos said:
here's the truth:: no one here knows how. but instead of just saying so, they love gettin on
a high horse and spittin out morals..
especially when they dont know what they are talking about.
they will keep extra change from a cashier or an ipod found in a gym, but thats different isnt it?
just sheep here..
some do work hard to provide roms etc..
if you want really out of the ordinary things, you will find few here..
some are groundbreaking, like chainfire and others. if anyone knows where to find info, its them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much for being the official spokesperson for the board.

I agree with quasi_mojo. Close this stupid thread.

Why Should I keep my 800 USD HTC Diamond?

Sorry for sounding so ...angry..but this phone just cost me not only 800 bucks..but 1700 dollars round trip to the place i got it from...so please understand my point of view
Ok so since no one answered my question and my problem with my phone (phone died 5 mins after using it) Please answer me this:
Why should I even think about keeping my htc diamond (thats ofcourse if i decide to replace my current dead one)?
I have a feeling that this phone is so bugged, it should be cheaper, should have some kind of customer support, and should be in a reasonable working condition when you open up the box of this epensive phone and be able to do w/e it is advertises to do.
none of these pointers even come close to the HTC Diamond. It is expensive, Tech support is just halarious (a month to !!REPAIR!! my phone and then the return ground trip- I cant even replace it) and even then, your warranty is not 100% guarenteed, and last but not least, It does not work 100% when you open it up and get ready to use it
I bet if i buy a 350 dollars phone (lets say the LG rumer) id have a better experiance, without touch screen (omg its the endz of ze w0rldz!!!).
I understand what this phone is, or at least have an idea of what it's capable(at least I think, BECAUSE I ONLY USED IT FOR 5 MINS!!), but looking at this phone's forum section, quite a few ppl are having 1 or more issues with this phone.
Am I better off returning this piece of junk and getting something similar for cheaper? (iphone 3G i can grab it from a duty free airport for around 750 USD). Or a blackbarry bold, or the samsung touchscreen one..
seriously When I called HTC, they not only treated me like garbage, the rep sounded happy as if he has just ripped me off with a crappy phone and tried dhis best not to have me try to rma my phone ( and he succeeded, Im returning to the airport i bought this junk from and replacing it/ buying another brand)
But if I am missing something, then please tell me, what makes this phone so special ?
BTW I live in NA, so the freaking 3G for this phone, as u all know doesnt work ---> Another feature right out the ****ing window.

if you dont like it take it back. end of story. if you dont love it, you dont deserve it. buy an iphone, nothing ever goes wrong with those.

yeah i agree go buy an iphone.
it sounds as though it would suit you better
as its made for people like you.

i thought, i hoped that we got past the "whining" period. i was wrong.
in the first 2 month after diamond was out the forum was full with this kind of useless threads. this thread if not killed by a moderator is going to become a chat room where some ppl (mostly noobs) are going to add their frustration, some ppl are going to flame you (the "crazy about diamond" ones), some are going to send you to flash and tweak it (it seems that you don't like the idea) and some are going to plain and simple send you to give it back and end the drama.
in short if u are expecting 20 replays trying to convince you to keep it, you are wrong.

lol what a post.

A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.

Keeping Diamond is not obligatory, if you don't like this phone, simply give it back and buy something you like. It's simple as that.

or perhaps they call them noobs because they seem to be incapable
of sorting out the few problems with stuff off here like the rest of us have.
this is a developers website not a site for those who just see it as a
pretty phone.

let the flame war BEGIN...

Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.

Blazeitup123 said:
let the flame war BEGIN...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sometimes i surprise myself....i am waiting another day or two and then i'll have to say it: i told you so!

Token42 said:
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from cambridge dictionary
whiner
noun [C] DISAPPROVING
a person, especially a child, who complains or expresses dissatisfaction continually
didn't call anybody whiner on my post (whining period).
didn't call the thread opener a noob.
1. i never said diamond is perfect but this is not the place to complain about the quality of diamond. htc diamond is a htc product. whine/complain to the htc. this is a developers forum, here you'll find ppl that are continuously improving the device. what's the point of such a thread here? what's the point? we all know too well the flows of the diamond.
2. looking at my sig you can see a partial list of the devices i own. none of them was so challenging like the diamond and in my eyes that's the beauty of it.
3. because i bought one of the first diamond arrived i paid 5000 NIS/3.5=1428$! not cheap. i also wanted to return the diamond but this was in the first days of diamond. there were no cooked ROMs and no smart tweaks and advanced configurations.... i also was a noob.. i search, i asked, i got flamed, i experimented and i can say that today i have N O N E of the problems you described. only yesterday i tried 4 new ROMs. today i am settled for at least one month with swiftbl's latest. no lag on GPS, no lag on scrolling, listening some trance with the a2dp without lag or skips (using coreplayer). didn't like the htc player so f...k. it, i bought the coreplayer.
4. sometimes i think that diamond is not a device, diamond is a kit, a "do it by yourself" gadget. don't buy it if you don't have time to assembly it.
stop complaining h e r e ! not satisfied? do something! complain to htc (not here) or return the device or invest some precious time to transform yr expensive toy from the legendary frog to the handsome prince. and no, kissing it is not enough!

I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!

Davey101 said:
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it

Of course this is a developer-forum, not intended for exchanging critics on a device, without wanting or excepting to solve the criticized problems. But sometimes it goes off-topic, someone complains and a so called flamewar is created. But even a flamewar is nothing else but a discussion in a discussion-forum. I see no problem in this behavour of forums.
I think responsible people on the manufacturer-side are aware of common problems, discussed in forums like this. Because they are owning such a device by their selfs, or they are interested in, because it's their job. So perhaps critizising really anoying issues can't be done to an extend, high enough.
It's true - devices like PDA's can't be perfect, they are too complicated. But even a mixer is too complicated to be perfect.
When I buy a mixer and it's somewhat too loud or a little weak, I can say: "Hey its not what I'm expected, but it's OK for the money." But when I have to switch the mixer on 3 minutes before I want to use it, cause it has a power-on lag, or if it allways looses the mixing attachment I say its bull****.
When I buy a top-class PDA promoted for GPS, PIM and MP3 and I can do nothing of it without big problems, I think also it's bull****.
OK - one could say "Its not a problem for all, it's only 50% with GPS-lag" - hey that makes me much more enthusastic to try other htc-products.
As someone allready suggested, I can simply buy another pda - yes I can can and will, but thats a reason not to complain about a product I've bought?
fhsieh said:
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

1st rule before you buy something
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.

liamhere said:
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.

Token42 said:
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more

KukurikU said:
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+.
Couldn't put it in a better way!
Coming back to the actual Diamond "problems" mentioned:
Even with the first couple of original HTC roms, I never experienced any GPS lag, mp3 lag etc etc. Only the start-up lag is rather annoying, but hey... how fast does your Windows Vista PC boot up?
Please try to compare Diamond's GPS next to an N95, and post the results on accuracy and lag (I have done so!).
Finally, I would agree with "liamhere"'s statement of "P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.", but I would like to add:
Make sure it's NOT an N series... and don't buy it (actually never buy ANYTHING expensive)from somewhere so far away, unless is online, so FedEx, DHL or whoever, can come to the rescue

liamhere said:
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, got this wrong.
If most people are happy with their diamond and doesn't encounter any of the known problems its fine and nice. Personaly I really start to get a little bit angry about myself, to have spent so much money for it.
I've bought this device not for the phone-functionality but as a pda and this was a bad bad decission. Not only because of flaws I was not aware of when I've bought it but because of limitations I knew of. I was only to impatient to wait for other models and do enough research.
I don't think HTC will spent many resources on bugfixing for example the gps-lag, cause their are so many phones of them in development and they have allready made their deal with the diamond.
So I return to my beloved Loox and use the diamond really only as a phone, better than nothing.

Bring Pirate Ghost Back Donation Thread

I am starting this thread because I am sick and tired of losing developers for a phone that desperately needs them. First it was the WC and BC fiasco that damn near put us out and now some person with no sense of flashing and a lack of understanding when it comes to reading directions has driven away one of our most helpful and successful developers. (WHEN YOU ARE TOLD NOT TO FLASH UNLESS YOU FULLY AND COMPLETELY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING THEN DONT FLIPPING FLASH IT)
To make it worth while I am starting a donation thread, to reward one of the people who have busted their ass (can I say that in the forums?) to help us and give us the phone we know the VIVID should be. I realize more then just PG has done a lot for us and I hope I am not offending anyone.
To put it simple I am starting out with a personal $100 donation. It is not much but it is what I have right now. If anyone wants to flame about what I am doing here do me a favor and don't. MODS, if this turns into a bashing war I would hope for some regulation and the ultimate closure of the thread if problems arise, I am not here to make enemies.
To quote DeamonFish on IRC: "BABY COME BACK! YOU CAN BLAME IT ALL ON ME..."

I'll give 10, I know it's measly, but its all I can give without my wife noticing ; ) saving for Ireland

At this point in time I cannot donate, but I hope to soon.
PirateGhost, please, keep doing what you do. I personally enjoy your ROMs, they're absolutely Amazing.
Thanks, and I hope you reconsider.

I will contribute $20 if he decides to come back. I was very close to flashing his Ice Cream Float before the drama happened, and I want to help showing that there are some people out there who do read, listen to directions, and THINK before going on a forum.

I was and am planning on donating to PG and some of the others as well. I know PG was responsible for a lot of the good work here. The irony is that his RUU might be the one thing that actually could have saved my phone, (At least may have been.) and now it's gone, along with another talented developer. Win, lose or draw, I will donate to this cause after I get some sleep and calm down a little bit.

What others did TO THEIR OWN PHONE and blamed PG was just plain stupid. I'll be donating.
There was a fair warning from the very beginning..

I'll donate. I just need to transfer some funds to my PayPal first.

PG and the other devs left for different reasons but I can pretty surely say that money is not the problem. They did all this developing from free will, not for donations. If PG does come back, he'll just get hit with the same bull**** he's been having to deal with these past few days. I'm just not sure raising money is the right way to go.
We (as in the Vivid forum) were not ready for an ICS release. Based on the huge number of people with bricked phones or bootloops, you can all see how many people jumped in without knowing ANYTHING and for lack of a better term, winged it...which led to their problems. These members didn't wait for an RUU, didn't read any of the stickys, didn't read any of the answers PG already posted in his 20 page threads and on top of that, a couple even went as far as to blame their own failures on, as well as make crazy accusations towards PG. For that, the rest of us suffer and that's how it is.

I love the support so far, please keep it going. Hopefully word gets out

penguinfishies said:
PG and the other devs left for different reasons but I can pretty surely say that money is not the problem. They did all this developing from free will, not for donations. If PG does come back, he'll just get hit with the same bull**** he's been having to deal with these past few days. I'm just not sure raising money is the right way to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree, but I feel that pledging to donate to him is a show of good faith that there are a number of us who enjoy his roms respectfully. I think it's time for the minority of users with good experiences to overshadow the stupid noobs who have ruined it for the rest of us.

I would for sure donate to the cause...
I myself have been known to ask stupid noobish questions, so I can only imagine how many posts, repeat questions and PMs he must have gotten after releasing this. I was amazed how many people blamed him for their own mistakes, I too bricked my phone but never once blamed him as after I did so I read everything again and again and then realized what I did wrong.
I do hope he comes back after maybe taking a little time away, but there has to be a way for him to have some protection from people, their questions and comments...
P.S.- A semi unrelated but somewhat related statement (and I don't want to start a firestorm) but I do wish in some of these DEV threads the fluff and worthless posts (mine included sometimes) would be erased to keep threads small and more full of worth while information.

I think people got their phone bricked cuz this update was for ATT Stock not any other carriers. So if they tried to flash, it's their own risk. Not to blame all the good devs out there give us better phone than stock.

I would donate too.
I myself asked a question in that very thread that got closed. I wanted to know if that ROM was for my phone because I didn't find any reference to "Velocity". Although people say Vivid and Velocity are interchangeable, I thought I'd ask. And I'm glad I did, otherwise I would have a bricked phone too.
Just one or two IDIOTS spoiling the party for everyone.
PG - can you start a private share so that you can control who has access to your zips and we can still download them?

ststeve123 said:
Just one or two IDIOTS spoiling the party for everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is precisely why we can't have nice things.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA Premium App

I leave for a few hours to go to dinner with some friends and this is what I come back to?
What happened?

I've read 99% of all the posts in the Vivid section, including PG's. Can't belive how much patience and time he put in those replies. I, for one I wouldn't even bother to answer most of them. Unfortunately people don't always appreciate it from obvious reasons (have no idea what developing is). Hope he comes back, it's nor fair to leave us for one or two mindless posters. Is not the noobs, or only the Vivid owners, is the whole Android community that needs him.
Sent from my HTC Vivid via Tapatalk

thecubed said:
I leave for a few hours to go to dinner with some friends and this is what I come back to?
What happened?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is where I was at last night... Some Galaxy nexus moron didnt read instructions and bricked his wifes Vivid from what I caught on to. Then he blames it on PG. See General thread First Rom Flash Rum Float Beta for exact details.
I agree with everyone here. When I was told HTC flashing on the vivid was different from other phones and older HTC phones I listened. I waited 48 hours to flash until I made sure I knew everything. Even then I sat in the IRC and continued asking new stupid questions. I was never chewed out, never driven off. I was answered, had my own laughs for stupidity and ended up with ICS.
When someone flashes a rom its like accepting a TOS agreement that comes with software. You agree that it is your own fault if the flash fails, especially if it was successful for so many others.
I am sure PG doesnt care about the money, but its an attempt to show him that just because some people are morons doesnt mean no one supports him and appreciates what he does.

I still haven't flashed ics and won't until I have the time to do it correctly and the knowledge. I have reread how to do it many times. I want to understand how it works before I put it on my phone. It would be awesome to have the newest thing but not at the expense of my phone for not following instructions. I wish I had time to develop but I work two jobs and have a baby coming in a few months.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA

I'm not sure that he is taking donations at this point. I donated $10 earlier today and he refunded it?!?

I appreciate the gesture but I cannot bring myself back.
Jazz, I refunded your donation partly because of the way you handled yourself with WC, and partly because I want no expectations from any of this.
I refunded Uberamd because sending me a donation does not give you the right to say whatever you like. It's not a free pass to talk ****.
Sent from my HTC PH39100

Need a few opinions: Letter to someone I care for and hurt

Ok folks, I don't frequently ask for advice in matters of the heart or personal stuff. Typically I confine myself to the realm of IT and phones. But awhile back when I was still whacked out over my Ex, I hurt someone I cared for greatly. It's been tough making things work out but I decided to lay everything on the line and I am mailing the following letter to her in hopes of things working out. Any input especially from the fairer sex (if there be any here :laugh would be appreciated. Any thoughts folks?
Redacted
,
There’s a great deal of things I would like to say to you. Many would most likely just be a rehash of things I have said before. I don’t believe though that anything I ever say from this moment on would be sufficient to change the way things are right now. I know I have tried time and time again to express my sincere regret for my actions. I did something terrible to you. It wasn’t getting you sick, it wasn’t making you feel used, and it wasn’t being a real jerk to you. It was turning my back on you. I walked away when I should have stayed and stood by you. I truly regret my actions and if I could, I would take them back and do things differently. I would have stayed by your side. I would have shown you that I was a good man and that I truly do care for you.
I’ve said this before and I do mean it, I have always felt something for you. Ever since we were children a part of me has been in love with you. Not just because I think you are beautiful, but because of who you are. I’ve always loved the way you carried yourself, the way you moved, the way you sat, everything. It wasn’t until we were adults that I realized behind the beauty and grace was a mind that was as wonderful as the rest of you. You are an amazing woman whom anyone would be lucky to have in their life.
When I changed my status and you messaged me, we talked and ended up admitting truths. When you accepted my offer for a date, I was elated. How often does the woman of your dreams, the one you’ve had a crush on your entire life, the one you always imagined asking out, actually pay attention to you and says yes to a date with you? When we went out, I thought I was over the past and I was wrong. I didn’t mean to hurt you the way I did.
The worst thing for me is being alone. Not necessarily being alone, but being alone in my thoughts. When I’m alone, I have nothing to distract me from my thoughts. I’ve had time to evaluate my actions, my decisions, and my life. I see a great many mistakes I have made in my life. Many of them I cringe at knowing I did or said those things. I look back at turning my back on you and I want to just berate myself and kick myself over and over again for what I did. I was a fool for doing that. You deserved better than my actions and I have no excuse for what I did. Regardless of my mindset or my thoughts at the time, you deserved someone who would be there especially when he caused it. I wasn’t.
Since then, I have wanted nothing more than to make it up to you. To show you I am the man you deserve. I’ve wanted nothing more than to deserve you. I know I’ve made a royal mess of my life due to my actions and have damaged yours as well. You were doing great and while you may have wanted more in life and would have eventually attained that goal, I set you back. I don’t know how far and I hope it’s not nearly as far as I believe it to be. I believe you deserve the best in life. I believe we all do. I don’t know if I am what’s best for you, but I know that for me, settling for anyone other than you would be a grave mistake on my part. I would be a true fool to not try and show you I am a good man and I deserve a second chance.
I’ve tried calling you a fair amount lately, as well as texting you. You haven’t answered my phone calls and lately haven’t answered a single text. I can’t say I blame you for not talking to me all things considered. I’ve been terrible to you and haven’t been the person you need in your life. I want to be that man but I don’t know if you can ever let go of the past and the distrust. I don’t know if you can ever truly trust me again. That in itself is a shame as I am a good man and would be willing to do just about anything to ensure your well being and your happiness. Once committed to something, I am determined to see it through. Perhaps you think I should be committed for being this way, but it’s who I am. It takes something major to change my mind about things. I think you know that by now.
I know that between not working and with the medical issues you’ve mentioned that you might be unsure of things. I know that you’ve said you don’t believe I can make decisions that take you into consideration. I want you to know that even knowing that you have problems medically, that if things are as bad as you fear, that you may not be around for as long as you would like to be, I am still here and I won’t walk away just because things are difficult again. I did once and I learned a valuable lesson from doing so. I learned what was worth fighting for and what wasn’t. I want to be there for you. I want to show you the support you deserve and be there for you when you want and need me. I already am even though you may not want me to be.
You agreed with me once that if I had not been a fool and been the man a woman like you deserves, we both may have been happy together right now. Despite all the bad, we would have been together and together we would have worked towards something great.
There’s a saying, one that I agree with, “Nothing good in life is ever easy.” I believe that the best things in life are worth fighting for. I believe that you are worth it. That despite where I may stand in your eyes or in your heart, I believe trying is the right thing to do. I may be wrong but without your input, I don’t know to stop.
I am not asking you to jump into anything with me. I would like for you to, but I can wait a bit for that. What I am asking is that we start over and that you let me prove to you that I am worth a second chance. I want to prove to you that I am the man you deserve, one that will always be there for you. I’d like to pick up things where we left off, but I don’t believe that’s an option anymore. I’m willing to start anywhere you think we should just so that one day I can rebuild the trust I shattered and one day we can have a relationship that puts others to shame.
I want to be more to you than a bad decision easily forgotten. I believe I deserve better than that and I believe that I can be the absolute best choice you’ve ever made.
You once said that I should focus on rebuilding my life. You said that I should fix my life before trying to start a relationship with you. I am working towards that every day. I have good and bad days but overall, things are moving in the right direction. I believe though that when I am not working or able to work towards my goals, the free time I have so to speak, that those times are when I should work on rebuilding your trust and our friendship, that those times should be spent with you.
I am going to rebuild my life better than before. I want that life to include you, to be there for you and you for me. I would like for us to be together for as long as we have on this earth. I would ask for the next life too, but I don’t want to seem too eager or greedy. I know things don’t always work out as planned and that all of this may be wishful thinking, but I truly believe that we were in each other’s paths again after so long a time apart for a reason. I do not believe though that our paths should diverge just yet. I believe that there is more for us here and that we should pursue it. I hope that deep down you feel the same way. I hope that somewhere deep inside is the desire to see things work out and for us to have a chance together even after everything that I caused.
I’ve made mistakes in my life before. I’ve made a great many of them, but none as great or none I regret more than hurting you and breaking your trust. I want you to know I will spend the rest of my life and do anything I have to in order to earn back your trust and friendship, to earn back the look in your eyes when you looked into mine, the right to hold your hand in mine again, to hold you close and say the things that matter in life.
I want to try again. I want to be the man for you. Will you let me be that man?
Sincerely,
Darrell

You sound like a young man. Take some advice from a 33 yr old that has walked many paths and who has loved and lost. As cliche as it sounds, its true, if its ment to be, it will happen. Explaining to her how you hurt and and how much you love her will not make her comeback. The heart wants what it wants. I know the pain at time seems unbearable at times and the obsesive thoughts seem to never to stop, but in time, the pain starts to recede, the thoughts slowly die down. Concentrate on yourself for now, stay away from alcohol, and live one day at a time. In time, you will find that special someone, and she will be nothing but a memory.

Man I hate to tell you but I hope the kids in OT don't have a hay day with this. It's a legitimate request. If things get to outta hand, hit me up with a PM. I've been down this road and it's not an easy one. If you want advice, shoot me a message. Best of luck to ya man!!
A toast from my Gnex aboard the Satisfaction!

Actually I'm 33. Big loveable guy at heart lol.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

DarrellRaines said:
Actually I'm 33. Big loveable guy at heart lol.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
O rly!? :what: Me and you have lived very diffrent lives.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Some parts of it seemed long and repetitive.
I think you can cut it shorter but still say what you want to say.
If she hasn't replied your texts or returned your phone calls, a letter this long may be thrown out immediately.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk only because my kids are playing with the Note 2.

LoopDoGG79 said:
O rly!? :what: Me and you have lived very diffrent lives.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been lucky. Up until recently I should say. I love freely and end up getting hurt a lot. We are the sum of our life experiences.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

I immediately skipped to this line at the bottom
I want to try again. I want to be the man for you. Will you let me be that man?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's all I need to read to tell you that you need to move on. Sorry, but it's true. Just the fact that you're asking her if you can "be that man" just says a lot.
I believe I deserve better than that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prove it. Go out there and find somebody better. After all, you do deserve it.

Ooooohhhhhh k, now that I've re-read it, I gotta take back what I said. Dude, you can't put yourself out there like that. You might as well be the weird stalker guy that watches her go to the grocery store. You gotta move on man. Swallow what little bit of pride you have and keep on going.
A wise man once told me, the only way to get over one girl is to get under another.
A toast from my Gnex aboard the Satisfaction!

'I am not asking you to jump into anything with me. I would like for you to, but I can wait a bit for that.'
you shouldn't write 'i can wait a bit'...
it sounds like 'yeah if you don't get laid by me next week, i'll search for another one'...
just write 'i can wait'
PS: good luck to you man!

Okay, I'm writing this in Notepad as I read what you wrote.
First paragraph, I'd trim this down. A lot of it is shooting yourself in the foot is going on here if your goal in this is to try to win her back.
"I turned my back on you. I walked away when I should have stayed and stood by you. I truly regret my actions. I wish I'd had the sense to stay by your side - I wish I could have been a better man."
Second paragraph, I'd cut this entirely, at least this early on.
Third paragraph : "You deserved better". You could attach this to the first at this point. A lot of this feels like a guilt trip for her when you're claiming you've hurt her. Don't tell her why YOU are needy and need her - why should she care (even if she does) ?
Fourth paragraph, same as second. This feels kind of random and unnecessary at this point.
Fifth paragraph. Okay. I don't know the situation, so that makes this really hard. But I wouldn't say in your letter that you DESERVE a second chance. Don't put this on her like she somehow needs to do you a favour. " I know I’ve made a royal mess of my life due to my actions and have damaged yours as well. You were doing great and while you may have wanted more in life and would have eventually attained that goal, I set you back. I don’t know how far, but I hope you're still able to attain all you wanted*" (*I don't know the situation, so I don't know how much she can expect ?) Tell her how you can HELP her attain whatever it is you set her back from, even if you can't directly.
Sixth paragraph. This whole letter is really vague so far - have you edited it for the internet ? If not, I'd be more specific. "I don't know if you can ever trust me again, that I understand". She knows she's been ignoring you - you don't have to tell HER that.
Seventh. "I wish I had been good enough to not have to hurt you in the process of learning what was worth living and fighting for". Somethingn like that.
Eight. You've basically said this before. Stop dwelling on it - it happened. What can you do to at least tell her in words that you're comitted to making a CHANGE ? What would you do in the FUTURE with her if you got back together at this point ? What would you do for HER ?
Nine. "Starting over" is not what you want. If you started over, well, you'd end up in the same place, right ? You need to express that you've learned and that that is always with you - that you're not going to mentally "start over".
Ten. Okay, what progress HAVE you made ? Can you tell her about THAT ? What can you do to make progress with her ? What would you like to do if you were to start "slow" ?
Eleven and Tweleve. I'm not going to comment on these, specifically.
Okay, so.
If I was reading this, I would feel you're too focused on NEEDING her and it's a lot of words, words, words - but no action. It's all talk and not much substance to actually mean something to someone who's been hurt. Address what you did. Address what you would DO. Address HOW you've changed, what you're doing. Let her know specifics about what you're doing to improve your life and yourself. Let her know HOW you can help her, what are you willing to do ? How can you support her ?
I'm not here to comment on if this is the right thing to do or if you need to move on. Maybe you do - I don't know. I don't know you or the situation. I'm just reading this, trying to think about if I'd been sent it.
I'm reading a whole lot of "I WANT you in MY life" - but no really good reasons why she should want to be in yours. Why should she ? ... SHOULD she ? If it really would be good for her, why ? Don't tell her that she needs to "fight" for this with you - if she's the one who's been hurt, why should she have to struggle any more ? Show her that you've changed and advanced enough that it wouldn't need to be something difficult.
Don't take this too personally. I don't know you, I don't know her - I don't know what happened. I can't tell you the best 'advice' possible without that.
Beware rebounds. If you haven't fixed your **** before trying to move on, you'll invariably **** up again and probably make the same sort of mistakes - or hey, maybe even all new ones. Figure your **** out - it's what this girl you're writing to wants to see - and it's what any girl who isn't going to be another couple broken hearts is going to want to see. It's old, but it's true - you can't expect to find someone to fully love and commit to you if you're not even fully what you want from yourself.
I tried. :good:

^ Great suggestions.
To OP, I read the whole thing. Twice. You're truly expressing yourself, but you don't need to keep reminding her what happened. She KNOWS what happened. And I would even say she dwells on it. So saying stuff like 'I turned my back on you" wouldn't really help. Being self critical is fine, but I found it to be slightly overkill.
And, in the whole letter, I kept searching for the world "sorry". You haven't said sorry even once. You NEED to tell her your sorry. She NEEDS to know that. You need to actually apologize to her instead of saying that you are unworthy.
If you really think she's the one, go pursue her, and don't let up.
I'm much younger than you, but I hope my advice helps.
Best of luck, mate.

So I read your letter and I can see that you're very troubled with the situation. A lot of people here have given you great advice, I'd really consider not shooting yourself in the foot like the person above stated.
My main concern is the letter seems more about you feeling bad and wanting to make things right rather than actually apologize and let the chips fall where they may, again like the person above stated.
My two cents, take out at least half of your "I"s . Don't beat yourself up especially in a letter to her as that won't inspire confidence in you as a man. Straight up, be a man; apologize for whatever happened, tell her what you feel, and then give her space. Sucks but other than that you'll suffocate her.
Hope all goes well man.
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