Hi Guys,
This is probably the best PDA forum. HTC should pay all you guys for creating this great forum for its overrated mobile.
TyTN II was the most $ I have ever spent on a mobile. With the price I pay, I could get a decent dual core laptop. But I wanted all things in one gadget and the news on TyTN II prior to its launch have made this mobile my dream mobile.
I was weary of the slow CPU speed. But after reading Qualcomm's specification of its CPU, that it is a dual core chip, I forced myself to believe that it will be faster than my old PDA that runs on Intel PXA270, 416MHZ. Unfortunately, I was mislead.
Sure, the TyTN II is stable, but I need to wait for 1-2 secs for it to register my command and than to react is totally not acceptable, especially I paid so much $ for it.
As for the Video, the first time I experienced, at best, the still moving pictures from an avi file had caused me great concern that my TyTn II is faulty. But now we all know that that phone is working under perfectly fine condition. Seriously, who has time to encode avi file down so that it can be viewed on TyTn II. I brought this phone to assist me and make my life more convenient, not the opposite.
So finally, I am trading in this phone at 64% of its original price (I have only used this phone for 5 months) for either Asus P750 or Gsmart MS800. I have ordered both of these new phones with the store for inspection and to make my final decision.
I am also frustrated with its inability to record telephone calls, which is one of necessary function for my job. I have spoken to a HTC sales and he told me that it is for privacy reason that they have make such a restriction. This is a load of BS. All large phone companies such as Nokia, SE, LG, and Moto have such a function.
Hope that I will also be able to find a native forum as good as this for Asus P750 or Gsmart MS800.
AND, I will never (during my time on earth) buy another HTC phone again... and I will certainly spread the word to all my friends not to buy any HTC phone either. HTC is good at make its first time customer its last time customer.
Guys, seriously, do you still believe that there is hope for the video driver or video improvement for HTC???
Get a life. Good luck with your new phone. Maybe they will have the video drivers you are looking for. We need to make a Sub Forum called "People Who ***** About HTC Products and Video Drivers"
goodbye, enjoy your new phone
honestly if anyone is tired of their kaiser, pls just sell it and leave, no need to whine about it or say goodbye. we really wont miss you at all.
all of us still holding on to our kaisers may be stupid from ur point of view, but we are all trying to make it work, hence the name xda-developers, not xda-whiners. if you dont like ur kaiser, sure you are entitled to your opinion, but ppl who choose to stay, dont really care, so just sell of your phone, piss off, and dont bother anyone. we dont really care to know what you feel about your device
well thx for telling us how u feel but we dont really care...its not like we're gonna follow suit cuz of u...research or try it out before u spend "so much $" on it...and whether new drivers are coming...who knows maybe or maybe not...this phone being not suitable to u doesnt mean it sucks or its bad in any way...just go get ur phone which suits u best...and live on
well... what more can I say..?
bye bye...
FYI, it's 'wary', not 'weary'. Good luck.
Seems like you want someone to sympathize. Pick one of the following responses:
1. Awww poor baby. There there.
2. I'll join you in abandoning HTC products.
(disclaimer: meh)
Good luck. and hope you can find the right PDA.
Tell it Wayne...
One whiner less....
This is nothing personal, but people are tired of new whining threads... plz just go and leave us alone with the whining.
If your friends belive the $ you talk it's their problem. Noone here cares if your friends like HTC or not. It doesn't matter for most if HTC sales some phones less or not. I still dont geht the point of such threads...
U think HTC will read this? U think it gets better if you buy a new one? Sry but every phones has it's issues... everything... here it is a video driver, other phones als cheaply manufactured, some have other bugs. There is nothing perfect. So wake up! The world is unfair.
Guys I am sorry but there is someone who tells us what he is doing now.
I believe HTC will never release the new drivers and at least they should see that people are selling the device now and will buy other brand in the future.
HP h4150 (best device I ever had)
Magican (it was fantastic but not that fast as the h4150)
TyTn1 (was ****)
Trinity (same **** like TyTn1, color pealing blahh blahh. but at least smaller)
now this stupid Kaiser (good device but not ready for the market)
I have bought 4 devices from HTC and only one was that what I am expecting to get.
And now you Guys are blaming him because he tells in a open letter what he will do?
Nice one!
HTC cheaters
I agree with the first post of this thread.
lot of people are addicted to flashing roms (me too), the fact that Kaiser is a disaster will never be acknowledged bec we have paid good amount for this and we refuse to give up or accept the facts. Till how long, will this go on. when will HTC be made to change their attitude, an attitude of taking consumers for granted, show me any hardware of their's which is perfect, either the speaker or camera will let u down. people who have criticized the first post should realise that people didnt go out to buy a phone with bad camera, speaker and display issues. Fact is we all have been duped by HTC. and if people here think things can be solved by xda everytime so lets buy htc, then its not right. I hope someday XDA dev manufacture a great phone , probably it will be the perfect phone.
gqstatus0685 said:
Get a life. Good luck with your new phone. Maybe they will have the video drivers you are looking for. We need to make a Sub Forum called "People Who ***** About HTC Products and Video Drivers"
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Unnecessary! It's a forum for people to voice their opinions and thats all he was doing. Fine, if you don't agree with his post, thats up to you but it's like my parents used to tell me "If you don't have anything nice to say.... don't say anything at all"
This is kind of one of the reasons why I try not to post here too much. Too many people all wanting to jump down someones throat when they disagree with a post, r the reason for posting. It's not just here, it's the same with any forum you go to. It's sad really.
Even though you think he's whining, it doesn't get better with the negative answers you give him. He just tells us he's made a choice.
The rudeness to him in the following posts is not worthy of an xda-developer.
Stay friendly.
viewedit said:
I agree with the first post of this thread.
lot of people are addicted to flashing roms (me too), the fact that Kaiser is a disaster will never be acknowledged bec we have paid good amount for this and we refuse to give up or accept the facts. Till how long, will this go on. when will HTC be made to change their attitude, an attitude of taking consumers for granted, show me any hardware of their's which is perfect, either the speaker or camera will let u down. people who have criticized the first post should realise that people didnt go out to buy a phone with bad camera, speaker and display issues. Fact is we all have been duped by HTC. and if people here think things can be solved by xda everytime so lets buy htc, then its not right. I hope someday XDA dev manufacture a great phone , probably it will be the perfect phone.
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Ag, shamepies,
Maybe HTC will provide live feeds from Mars too.
Or maybe better yet, a device that will record your blood pressure and hot & cold running water at the same time!
Oh, maybe even better, a device that will also double as a BMI scale and also have a built-in HIV monitor and blood-group detector!!!
Grow up!!
This has truly become the Cheese & WHINE forum!!!
MACkjam said:
Ag, shamepies,
Maybe HTC will provide live feeds from Mars too.
Or maybe better yet, a device that will record your blood pressure and hot & cold running water at the same time!
Oh, maybe even better, a device that will also double as a BMI scale and also have a built-in HIV monitor and blood-group detector!!!
Grow up!!
This has truly become the Cheese & WHINE forum!!!
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Click to collapse
What is YOUR contribution to xda-developers exactly?
even if i dont't mind if anybody has a kaiser, sells a kaiser, buys a kaiser or sleeps with his kaiser, i think such threads might not be useless.
if many people make it clear that they leave HTC and why they sell their phones maybe HTC realizes that their way to treat customers was wrong.
rhov23 said:
What is YOUR contribution to xda-developers exactly?
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Click to collapse
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
MACkjam said:
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
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Well length of membership really isn't anything to go by, I could have signed up to be a member yesterday and could be a total guru (im not though )
Look, lets just play nice ok? Its a public forum for people to publish their opinions. Lets not turn this into yet another bashing thread.
foobar1977 said:
Well length of membership really isn't anything to go by, I could have signed up to be a member yesterday and could be a total guru (im not though )
Look, lets just play nice ok? Its a public forum for people to publish their opinions. Lets not turn this into yet another bashing thread.
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Click to collapse
Agree. Thanks
MACkjam said:
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
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Made iTask, and made a lot of skins for various programs.
Related
The site is up and running, discussion here!
Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.
Looks very good!
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
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What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
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The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
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Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
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Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.
Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.
Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James
jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
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Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
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I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
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Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.
Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.
Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner
you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.
I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.
jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
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What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
Dear dissatisfied HTC Customer,
Before reading this, remember I am NOT encouraging you to boycott HTC. But I think most of you, who are going to do that, are really knowing what your reasons are.
As For me it really seems that we paid for something that HTC did not provide, I think we all have seen great dissatisfaction and complaints here on the forums, which some of us are unable not to agree with. Some people even culminate the dissatisfaction simply by ending the customer relation with HTC.
I figured it would be nice to see how badly did their Kaiser backfire, and the way they handled their customers with this. So please, if you feel that you have had enough and are going separate ways with HTC, use the below link to inform HTC about your decision. Also remember to tell them why you chose to do so. Remember to add that you are talking about Kaiser. And also remember to tell them that you most likely won’t be recommending HTC devices to anyone, and will probably do your best that no-one gets screwed like you did, if you feel like that. That should teach them a lesson!
Also after doing that report back on this thread! So we get to see how it affected their customer base in this forum and hopefully even more widely, a bigger picture. With some math we can speculate what was the damage for them. Hopefully this will help them also to see what they did, and see it would have been everybodys benefit if they did things right at the first place.
Below are the links to inform HTC about your decision. You probably best to aim the e-mail to their "customer service"!
European ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/europe/CS_Mail.aspx
North American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/us/CS_Mail.aspx
Latin American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/la/CS_Mail.aspx
Asian ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/tw/CS_Mail.aspx
Middle-East and African ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/mea-en/CS_Mail.aspx
The reason why I find this really important is that, we really need to get the information on their face. That is where petition signing and things like that fail! I bet after receiving few thousand of this kind of e-mails the information will be passed to the persons concerned. That will not probably help us, but prevent them repeating what they did. Link to this thread would also be good on any other HTC/Kaiser related forum, so we get a collection of all dissatisfied ex-customers overall.
Sincerely Yours,
Henry
Ultimately dissatisfied HTC-EX-customer
ps.
you are still "allowed" to use your current HTC devices the best way you can imagine, since most of us paid a good price for it! For me that would be a paperweight or as a "viviparous lizard's tail".
I just informed HTC-europe that I will never be their customer again! I WONT!
Edit.
Actually, what I did say was, I will boycott them until the justice has happened in this case. Too bad it seems that will never happen. But that will give them at least a little reason to do back the bad things they did to us. They would get me back!
Done.
I am in charge of mobile devices and syncing with Exchange for a 2500+ employee company. I had started migrating people to s620's but have since moved them to HP iPAQ Messengers until a non-HTC device comes out that fits our needs.
So, while I'm not buying any more, I'm making sure nobody at the company (even personal purchases) are HTC.
-Mc
sent to http://www.htc.com/sea/CS_Mail.aspx
hope others will follow........
Sent message to the North American link.
Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone, ATT Tilt, it's an upgrade from my last smartphone/ppc (VOQ Professional Phone) which actually I still have and would still be using had the company not gone out of business, and well the phone doesn't have bluetooth, wifi or a camera either... if it did have those three things I've still be using it now really even if the company went under...
I don't get the Boycott though.. are people REALLY that unhappy with their phones? sure I see lots of complaints about things but I see that with EVERY phone on the market today, there IS NO perfect phone out there and never will be because someone will find something wrong no matter what...
dampeal said:
Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone...
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Please do not go offtopic too much! I understand that there are A LOT of arguments why the Kaiser could be alright as a mobile device, but that is not the point here. The point is that any person has the right to boycott what ever company for any reason he/she finds worth it. I'm collecting that info here NOT DISCUSSING whether the device is worthy or not. Made up my mind already.
I admire the resolve of all that are willing to stand by thier principles. Personnaly, the choice of my next phone is limited to what my carrier has to offer as by buying from them, I get a large discount.
As my carrier is T-Mobile UK, that means my next upgrade will probably be a HTC device (maybe vario 4) for around 100gbp as opposed to a none HTC device from a store for around 400gbp.
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.
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Lol... I agree...I will never say never... If HTC launched a TyTN II killer I'd probably get it..If will never buy a Kaiser again though if it helps
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****.
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That's strange. Because when I visit http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376, I see that there are four sections: one for discussion about accessories, one for discussion about software, one for discussion about ROMs, and this one for general discussion.
I notice that the developers tend to hang out in the software and ROMs sections, and that this general discussion forum is for general discussion.
Do you not have access to all four sections?
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. ..
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Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.
My message ... Europe Customer.
Drivers for Kaiser? No?
Then thank You, I will find my next device somewhere else, where I will really get what I paid for.
rakdoll said:
Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.
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Click to collapse
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394543&highlight=stuck+bootloader
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228402&highlight=redbandana#post2228402
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228280&highlight=redbandana#post2228280
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394657&page=2
and then some.
However, I do bash n00bs when there are posts bashing HTC. Sorry to offend you in anyway.
^^ I understand your frustration and i share similar sentiments with you. A similar thread was posted yesterday(you can find it on page 2) and the day before yesterday on the ROM dev. forum. It gets annoying after a while, thats all.
redbandana said:
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs. ... . .
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Click to collapse
Alright, It seems really we just happen to have our personal opinions, which we are completely righteous. I must admit I totally see your initial point, how this forum is built over the dedication of people who simply love to learn new things. It is totally frustrating nowadays to see people just complaining, without doing a **** about the real issues. I hope I didn't do exactly that, by starting this thread. The real reason to that is just, I would love to scare the **** out of HTC, make them see that they will go down if they don't respect us the way they should.
I do recognize what you stand for, and I must say there must not be anything that I wouldn't share with you. The thing that started this, must be that I have always been a man who stands behind his words, at least most of the time, and I assume the same from others. That includes all the big companies, groups and individuals. It really makes me sad to see where this world is going just because the only thing that matters to people is money. Huge corporations, sucking all the money they can, that's the end of people trying to provide just themselves.. no.. they want all that they can get. In the end, the one who pays the costs is dudes like us.
I honestly also didn't mean to offend anyone, and if it seemed so, I truly apologize. So in the end of the day, it seems like we are alone, with our Kaisers, trying to get the best out of it. So let's just keep on tuning it, until we are happy. That seems to be the initial purpose of this whole place's existence.
really sorry for my funny use of english, you native speakers must be laughing your asses off. But me not native, me from land of the barb-backed fishes. :|
I'm sure this awesome online community only makes up about less then half (if even) of tilt/kaiser/etc owners. There are many people that own this phone because they need it and never go online to mod it. Out of that assumed half I would say a 10th read what is posted or understand a single thing about this phone. That leaves a large number of people who think their phone is "crap" because you tell them it is. Yes I would like to see the phone be faster but I don't think it's crap nor do I think HTC has screwed me over. I don't seem to remember any stats that they released in regards to video or any other performance. Do you? Where are their benchmarks they advertised that weren't acheived by our lovely devices? If you can show them to me then I, and all of my friends will sign your wish list, but until I see them I will just think that everyone is butt hurt over an assumed performance loss.
HTC in my opinion has done something about this. Is it good enough to truely unlock the power of the Kaiser? No, but was it something rather then nothing? Do any of you know the cost of the video driver per unit? No, then how can people claim they paid for something they didn't get. How do you know it wouldn't have been another $50 that would have been tagged on. From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.
ChumleyEX said:
From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.
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Click to collapse
This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
If I know it sooner I'd rather choose MWG, or iULTIMATE.. FOR SURE
I don't really care about support after market
But this laggy thing gives me s*it..... the fact that THIS THING DOESN'T have this BEFORE MARKET and they are HIDING THIS FACT!!!!
No multimedia experience only headache if you used it almost every time WITH touch screen... if... u know what I mean... do you??? or u just using it for modem only????
...bump
rajmagi said:
This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
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Click to collapse
+1 Chumley I also go alot on the support forums for the iPhone, because my wife has an iPhone. If you were new to the iPhone you would think that it was the biggest piece of crap around. Thats all that is there is whining and complaining about how it doesn't work, Apple sold us a piece of crap . Here is a petition, let's put Apple out of business. As with all other forums a very vocal MINORITY of people who for whatever reason are having trouble with there phones.
Don't even get me started with the " Check the price, I thought I was getting the best " consumer strategy. I am just glad you don't buy my groceries.
I love my phone ,it does everything they told me it would do.It makes phone
calls, it schedules, MS Office is great, web access is great, I have push email, My gps works great etc... etc.....etc. Do I care that it doesn't have a Nikon D40 inside, do I care that I can't play WoW on it , do I care that I can't watch you tube all day at 3G on a battery charge? No ! This isn't what they promised me and this isn't what I bought my phone for.
Bottom line is, there are a million people out there that are perfectly satisfied with their HTC product. But we never hear from them. They are the silent majority. We here have to put up with thread after thread after thread because the vocal minority thinks we care that they bought a phone they don't like
STOP *****ing about Video Drivers. Who care. The phone is fine. You are forgetting that it's a PHONE! Be glad they added alot of extra stuff you can't find in a majority of phones. I have never had a problem watching videos and movies on my phone. Seriously.. geez
As above - Chl 5 8pm tonight
i doubt this will be usefull or give you the result you hope for.
I doubt they will even know, let alone try, about flashing and the massive advantages this gives. I doubt they will touch on the various 3rd party apps that really make this phone and instead, will focus on a standard "factory fit" which, lets face it, is a bit crap. Will they cover the fact that this phone is an exellent business tool (oh how i miss TV/VGA out ... )
I also doubt they will mention the Iphones failings, its 2.0 software disaster, its "push" (yeerrr right!) email or the fact people are having there entire contacts and calendars being wiped out in front of them or again that they STILL can't change batteries
I see them going for the Iphone.
Who knows, Germans have choosen Diamond as a best phone on the world with iPhone as a 2nd with quite big adventage. Who knows, maybe those people will make some big review and will compare those phones in every aspect.
nutcracker2 said:
Who knows, Germans have choosen Diamond as a best phone on the world with iPhone as a 2nd with quite big adventage. Who knows, maybe those people will make some big review and will compare those phones in every aspect.
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Click to collapse
What do you mean "Germans"? Do you mean the entire population voted on it or a selected "Gadget Show" like TV program?
http://www.inside-handy.de/news/12140.html
1500 of german inside-handy.de users choosen Diamond as most desirable phone of the year. I was wrong, not the best, but most desirable
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
nutcracker2 said:
http://www.inside-handy.de/news/12140.html
1500 of german inside-handy.de users choosen Diamond as most desirable phone of the year. I was wrong, not the best, but most desirable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... but the poll was done in 12.06.2008 with the old iPhone and not with 3G!
nokmond said:
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I watch the gadget show because some of it well put together and you can tell the producers/presenters do know what they are talking about even if they do have to dumb it down for a maintream tv audience somewhat.
As regards the flashing issue, I doubt they will go into it in detail but why should they? Most users don't know about it and if you did tell them they probably wouldnt want to be bothered with it anyway. Its a big time sink just for a setting up a mobile, which should really have been done by HTC in the first place.
Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaPS0NLwFQ
Most of the people they ask dont even realise about all the 3rd party apps or different roms,all they seem interested in is the way it looks.
owz206 said:
Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaPS0NLwFQ
Most of the people they ask dont even realise about all the 3rd party apps or different roms,all they seem interested in is the way it looks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link, i hadn't realised before how crappy that show is, are they trying to be Top Gear or something! They're doing camera shots of the pavement that are so quick the phones blurred! And if the presenter emphasised his words anymore he'd explode.
In that video, that kind of test is always going to be about looks, if you even try to use the phone you wont know how because youve only had 5 seconds with it so all they can compare is looks, size, weight etc and go on what the presenters say.
Two things immediately spring to mind on watching the clip - Apple has spent a fortune on promoting the iphone, so that anyone who watches TV will have an idea how it works - if the touch screen from the Diamond had been given similar video tutorials on primetime TV, no doubt a lot of people would find the interface just as user friendly.
The other factor is the Apple effect - people feel that Apple has a brand value akin to Richard Branson's woolly jumpers - all cuddly and vaguely environmental/hippy chic. I prefer to be apart from the crowds, not queueing to buy on the basis of marketing hype.
Well I'm definitely sending my Diamond back. The one they had on the gadget show had a hardware keyboard and a Nokia label. Mine has neither.
ericsson68 said:
Well I'm definitely sending my Diamond back. The one they had on the gadget show had a hardware keyboard and a Nokia label. Mine has neither.
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Click to collapse
LOL yeah i know i watched it too..... check out the youtube link for the web tv review (previous posts)
The review was crap anyway, people like the look of the iphone, but thats it.
None of the functionality of the Diamond was really talked about, very poor review. (if you could even call it that !)
nokmond said:
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree the Gadget Show is for people who don not know anything - I watch it over the internet and I find this a useful program indeed. But I do disagree with some of the shows findings on best products...
nubbin said:
Two things immediately spring to mind on watching the clip - Apple has spent a fortune on promoting the iphone, so that anyone who watches TV will have an idea how it works - if the touch screen from the Diamond had been given similar video tutorials on primetime TV, no doubt a lot of people would find the interface just as user friendly.
The other factor is the Apple effect - people feel that Apple has a brand value akin to Richard Branson's woolly jumpers - all cuddly and vaguely environmental/hippy chic. I prefer to be apart from the crowds, not queueing to buy on the basis of marketing hype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"marketing hype" something Apple Computers are very good at G
Of the bat:
-The show looks cheesy as ****, something apple users tend to like!
-The 60 year old host, talking bout technology? Not good! (no harm intended to any 60 year old member in the forum)
And Ill always do this on any thread that contains the words FruityPhone:
FruitPhone SUCKS!!!!
Remeber, second best they are.
the show is usually quite good, but after watching this they did not give the htc a proper review. I mean come on if you put a iphone in front of everyone they know what it is straight away! Seems like the Apple advertising is really sucessful.
I dont mind if our Diamond isnt as big as iphone to be honest.
After all do you want everyone to have the same phone as you! I call it a small prestige club and I am honored to have be in it.
Sergio PC said:
Of the bat:
-The show looks cheesy as ****, something apple users tend to like!
-The 60 year old host, talking bout technology? Not good! (no harm intended to any 60 year old member in the forum)
And Ill always do this on any thread that contains the words FruityPhone:
FruitPhone SUCKS!!!!
Remeber, second best they are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you possibly be any more offensive with your outdated and ageist remark?
He's not even 60.
Idiot.
kidd78 said:
the show is usually quite good, but after watching this they did not give the htc a proper review. ......
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Click to collapse
Did you watch the same show as me? I only saw the IPhone versus a Nokia....
I suppose you are right in a sense, they didn't give the HTC a proper review ... as they didnt have one!
I stopped watching the gadget show a few years ago because i get the feeling that they really dont know what they are talking about, the reveiws and tests that they do are completley stupid and of course they are given more money to say good things about certain products.
There was an episode i flicked onto the other month, and they had picked out a bunch of HD TV's an said they were gonna get the best experts in the country to give them a thouogh testing to see which one was the best! So they took them to the tech guys (pc worlds attempt at making ppl think that their getting good advice!) who stood about 2 foot away from the screens an said that none of them were particaully good and then said the most expencive one wa no good because it was a Plasma set and could suffer from screen burn!
In short the show is biased to whoever pays them the most money to give the best review!!!1!!!
Sorry for sounding so ...angry..but this phone just cost me not only 800 bucks..but 1700 dollars round trip to the place i got it from...so please understand my point of view
Ok so since no one answered my question and my problem with my phone (phone died 5 mins after using it) Please answer me this:
Why should I even think about keeping my htc diamond (thats ofcourse if i decide to replace my current dead one)?
I have a feeling that this phone is so bugged, it should be cheaper, should have some kind of customer support, and should be in a reasonable working condition when you open up the box of this epensive phone and be able to do w/e it is advertises to do.
none of these pointers even come close to the HTC Diamond. It is expensive, Tech support is just halarious (a month to !!REPAIR!! my phone and then the return ground trip- I cant even replace it) and even then, your warranty is not 100% guarenteed, and last but not least, It does not work 100% when you open it up and get ready to use it
I bet if i buy a 350 dollars phone (lets say the LG rumer) id have a better experiance, without touch screen (omg its the endz of ze w0rldz!!!).
I understand what this phone is, or at least have an idea of what it's capable(at least I think, BECAUSE I ONLY USED IT FOR 5 MINS!!), but looking at this phone's forum section, quite a few ppl are having 1 or more issues with this phone.
Am I better off returning this piece of junk and getting something similar for cheaper? (iphone 3G i can grab it from a duty free airport for around 750 USD). Or a blackbarry bold, or the samsung touchscreen one..
seriously When I called HTC, they not only treated me like garbage, the rep sounded happy as if he has just ripped me off with a crappy phone and tried dhis best not to have me try to rma my phone ( and he succeeded, Im returning to the airport i bought this junk from and replacing it/ buying another brand)
But if I am missing something, then please tell me, what makes this phone so special ?
BTW I live in NA, so the freaking 3G for this phone, as u all know doesnt work ---> Another feature right out the ****ing window.
if you dont like it take it back. end of story. if you dont love it, you dont deserve it. buy an iphone, nothing ever goes wrong with those.
yeah i agree go buy an iphone.
it sounds as though it would suit you better
as its made for people like you.
i thought, i hoped that we got past the "whining" period. i was wrong.
in the first 2 month after diamond was out the forum was full with this kind of useless threads. this thread if not killed by a moderator is going to become a chat room where some ppl (mostly noobs) are going to add their frustration, some ppl are going to flame you (the "crazy about diamond" ones), some are going to send you to flash and tweak it (it seems that you don't like the idea) and some are going to plain and simple send you to give it back and end the drama.
in short if u are expecting 20 replays trying to convince you to keep it, you are wrong.
lol what a post.
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Keeping Diamond is not obligatory, if you don't like this phone, simply give it back and buy something you like. It's simple as that.
or perhaps they call them noobs because they seem to be incapable
of sorting out the few problems with stuff off here like the rest of us have.
this is a developers website not a site for those who just see it as a
pretty phone.
let the flame war BEGIN...
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Blazeitup123 said:
let the flame war BEGIN...
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Click to collapse
sometimes i surprise myself....i am waiting another day or two and then i'll have to say it: i told you so!
Token42 said:
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from cambridge dictionary
whiner
noun [C] DISAPPROVING
a person, especially a child, who complains or expresses dissatisfaction continually
didn't call anybody whiner on my post (whining period).
didn't call the thread opener a noob.
1. i never said diamond is perfect but this is not the place to complain about the quality of diamond. htc diamond is a htc product. whine/complain to the htc. this is a developers forum, here you'll find ppl that are continuously improving the device. what's the point of such a thread here? what's the point? we all know too well the flows of the diamond.
2. looking at my sig you can see a partial list of the devices i own. none of them was so challenging like the diamond and in my eyes that's the beauty of it.
3. because i bought one of the first diamond arrived i paid 5000 NIS/3.5=1428$! not cheap. i also wanted to return the diamond but this was in the first days of diamond. there were no cooked ROMs and no smart tweaks and advanced configurations.... i also was a noob.. i search, i asked, i got flamed, i experimented and i can say that today i have N O N E of the problems you described. only yesterday i tried 4 new ROMs. today i am settled for at least one month with swiftbl's latest. no lag on GPS, no lag on scrolling, listening some trance with the a2dp without lag or skips (using coreplayer). didn't like the htc player so f...k. it, i bought the coreplayer.
4. sometimes i think that diamond is not a device, diamond is a kit, a "do it by yourself" gadget. don't buy it if you don't have time to assembly it.
stop complaining h e r e ! not satisfied? do something! complain to htc (not here) or return the device or invest some precious time to transform yr expensive toy from the legendary frog to the handsome prince. and no, kissing it is not enough!
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Davey101 said:
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Of course this is a developer-forum, not intended for exchanging critics on a device, without wanting or excepting to solve the criticized problems. But sometimes it goes off-topic, someone complains and a so called flamewar is created. But even a flamewar is nothing else but a discussion in a discussion-forum. I see no problem in this behavour of forums.
I think responsible people on the manufacturer-side are aware of common problems, discussed in forums like this. Because they are owning such a device by their selfs, or they are interested in, because it's their job. So perhaps critizising really anoying issues can't be done to an extend, high enough.
It's true - devices like PDA's can't be perfect, they are too complicated. But even a mixer is too complicated to be perfect.
When I buy a mixer and it's somewhat too loud or a little weak, I can say: "Hey its not what I'm expected, but it's OK for the money." But when I have to switch the mixer on 3 minutes before I want to use it, cause it has a power-on lag, or if it allways looses the mixing attachment I say its bull****.
When I buy a top-class PDA promoted for GPS, PIM and MP3 and I can do nothing of it without big problems, I think also it's bull****.
OK - one could say "Its not a problem for all, it's only 50% with GPS-lag" - hey that makes me much more enthusastic to try other htc-products.
As someone allready suggested, I can simply buy another pda - yes I can can and will, but thats a reason not to complain about a product I've bought?
fhsieh said:
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st rule before you buy something
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
liamhere said:
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Token42 said:
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
KukurikU said:
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+.
Couldn't put it in a better way!
Coming back to the actual Diamond "problems" mentioned:
Even with the first couple of original HTC roms, I never experienced any GPS lag, mp3 lag etc etc. Only the start-up lag is rather annoying, but hey... how fast does your Windows Vista PC boot up?
Please try to compare Diamond's GPS next to an N95, and post the results on accuracy and lag (I have done so!).
Finally, I would agree with "liamhere"'s statement of "P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.", but I would like to add:
Make sure it's NOT an N series... and don't buy it (actually never buy ANYTHING expensive)from somewhere so far away, unless is online, so FedEx, DHL or whoever, can come to the rescue
liamhere said:
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
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Click to collapse
Sorry, got this wrong.
If most people are happy with their diamond and doesn't encounter any of the known problems its fine and nice. Personaly I really start to get a little bit angry about myself, to have spent so much money for it.
I've bought this device not for the phone-functionality but as a pda and this was a bad bad decission. Not only because of flaws I was not aware of when I've bought it but because of limitations I knew of. I was only to impatient to wait for other models and do enough research.
I don't think HTC will spent many resources on bugfixing for example the gps-lag, cause their are so many phones of them in development and they have allready made their deal with the diamond.
So I return to my beloved Loox and use the diamond really only as a phone, better than nothing.
After over one year of use I just wanted to write few lines about my impression of this PDA.
I travel a lot and I thought that a PDA could be helpful to keep in touch and do the IT chores while on the go. I was very wrong and I regret having bought the damn thing. The device tries to do many things but none of them well. In retrospective it sounded too good to be true.
At the beginning I did make a point of using it to its best potential but after a while I got so tired and annoyed with it that I have used it mostly like just any other phone.
I thought I would give myself some time to get accustomed to the complexity of the device before jumping to conclusions.
Over one year later and I still find it incredibly cumbersome and totally user unfriendly. The guys at HTC should go to Apple to get a crush course in making something user friendly.
Here are just a few things. The list is way longer but I would have to go back and try most functions to recall all the flaws.
- It's super slow. I am no super fast teenage geek but I am always waiting for the stupid thing to react to any command I give. It is very annoying and it's like stepping back to the time of the 286 PCs. The speed is archaic.
- The buttons controls are very difficult to feel with the touch and are very cumbersome to operate. Especially the side ones. I am sure that even blind people would have problems using them.
- Windows mobile is as bad as Microsoft gets. It's slow, counter intuitive, user unfriendly. Early Vista at the power of ten!
- Window media player is a joke. I have been using the PDA to listen to music in the car and it's a miracle I have not crashed while trying to select some music yet.
- The touch screen is also very bad and difficult to use. A lot of the commands are way too small for a man's finger. It is very difficult to select something on first attempt.
- To open a running program is difficult. One has to press the top right menu and than select what is running by touch only. The bar is about 4 mm high and it's very difficult to select using one hand. One cannot select by using the scroll bar and button.
- During phone calls the screen goes out quickly and to get it back one has to look for the hidden button on the side, very bad.
- Voice recognition sucks. Since the controls are so bad I now use the voice recognition most times. It's rare that the damn machine get it right on first attempt. Repeating the name twice helps but not always. I end up having to raise the tone as if I was yelling. Very embarrassing in public.
- The GPS take a long time to get the satellites even when the data has been updated.
- Active sync is a disaster. The guy that design it should be shot. I have given up on it altogether. I had to buy small software to access the data in the PDA and memory card.
Active sync could just not do the most elementary operation in a simple and straightforward way.
- The booting upon starting is the longest I have ever seen. Switching it off is also a chore
The list goes on but I am getting annoyed just to think about it all. This is the first and last product I’ll ever buy from HTC. Unless you are a geek that gets pleasure messing with IT devices do not buy it. Its use will take an unhealthy amount of your time. It will not help your life, it will waste a lot of your time and annoy you in the process.
Stay away from it!
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
I like my TyTN II.
Maybe some of the things you think missed, you could configure them another way to get the most of the device. I think I'll never finish to get more and more from it. And I exhausted a P4350 before changing to the Kaiser.
denco7 said:
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
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Click to collapse
The PDA was also used by a friend of mine who is a blackberry user and talented software developer with many years of experience in IT. He did notice the same things and at times the thing did drive him crazy too.
My friend is also a guy that has switched to Linux long time ago. I have been too lazy and suffered in silence with MS crap but hopefully I will find the time to invest in changing for the better.
My friend impressions made me realize that I am not clueless as you say. In fact being a marine engineer I have dealt with equipment of all sorts for many years.
The PDA is designed by geeks for geeks. It is not a product for normal people. Anybody that buys this device has to spend many, many hours tying to sort it out and make it work better. I did that at the beginning and downloaded many fixes and upgrades. The very existance of this website and the number of people that use it is an indication that this PDA is not a product you switch on and just use. Very far from it.
I think you are like many people that after spending all that money don't want to admit that they got a lemon. The fact that you want to upgrade is a clear indication that you are not that satisfied with the gadget.
Just pick it up and slide the keyboard slightly. It takes 4.8 sec for the display to go from vertical to horizontal and back. If that is fast then you must be very slow.
Cheers
Yeah I also suggest you get an iphone. It's for people just like you.
No customization and power-user options, but your grandma can figure out the basic PDA functions.
TytnII has been great for me.
This is a negative and boring thread from the op! With some effort you can do a lot with the tytn2 as well as the tytn1! Very good devices!
I very much enjoy my Kaiser. I had some of the problems the OP had when I was running the AT&T stock ROM (with bloatware), but all that changed when I started using custom ROMs. The Kaiser is actually a very capable device, the only reason it underperforms is because it's hardware isn't fully taken advantage of (but even that's improving now). Once I flash a ROM and spend a whole 10 minutes customizing the device to how I like it, it runs like a dream.
OP: As the others have said in this thread, if you aren't willing to tweak the device, and customize the living crap out of it in order to get a faster Kaiser, maybe a feature phone or iPhone would be more suitable for you.
Dave
PS: (I have a 286, and it runs fine!)
I have a tytn, tytnII, titan, touch pro and a fuze. I must admit that every one of these devices were less than spectacular in the as-shipped form from the service provider. Thats why I found this site so I could make them all perform up to their hype.
Every one of them, thanks to the wonderful developers here, will outperform an iphown now. I have had very little problems like the OP described that were not simply fixed by changing a setting here or there. I like my tilt better than any of the others I have had (except the fuze.)
My 8525 (TyTn) works great and it has less power than the TyTnII. You can not get the most out of the phone unless you get rid of the stock OS. That's why XDA Devs rocks. Once the stock OS is gone - the phones rock!
mikechannon said:
This is the Kaiser forum. A forum dedicated to supporting Kaiser owners and providing answers to specific problems.
I'm sure you can see that this is not a supportive thread for TyTn II owners.
I'm not actually sure that expressing views about strongly disliking HTC and WM is a wise idea on a website dedicated to both those things.
However, and lest I be accused of wielding evil Moderator censorship powers, I will move this thread to off-topic. There it will take up its place accumulating wise and sensible contributions to the debate.
Mike
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Click to collapse
Hi Mike,
It's not about being supportive or not. It's about giving a broad range of perspective so if tomorrow somebody wants to buy the device they can search for information and have a better idea of what they are getting into.
Unfortunately at the time I bought mine the information available was somehow biased towards people who think that is ok to spend 750 $ for a gadget that right away needs all sorts of non OEM twicks and upgrades to perform close to its marketing claims.
In any sector or product if one buys at the very top end of the price range should expect to end up with something that works well right away.
The TY TN II does not. HTC is a company with great potential but it should take a lot longer before releasing a product such this.
I belive that censorship does not help the people behind this site that are happy with the product either. My post is not off topic. They are first hand comments on the device from somebody that owns one, just like anybody else here.
Because of lack of unbiased information many people like me or even less prepared to mess with the device will buy it and up here nagging everyone else for help. Even for the silliest problems.
Let's be clear. This is a very niche product, HTC marketing pitch is misleading. It is not a piece of consumer goods suitable for the majority of people. It has to become a pet project for the buyer otherwise will not delivery to it's full potential.
I would suggest you put this thread in a very accessible location.
I am sorry if have hurt any TY TN II lovers
I suspect that a lot of people here see the device like their own baby.
Cheers
gogol said:
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
mikechannon said:
Well yes in the interests of allowing different points of view, the thread has been kept, we are all entitled to a reasoned point of view.
However IMHO it is off-topic in the sense that keeping it in the TyTn II forum which is specifically to provide help for those who already have a TyTn II would be inappropriate. I did consider the General forum, but againthat is for those who already own an HTC phone and are seeking support perhaps for Windows Mobile issues.
So by elimination if nothing else "off-topic" was the choice. Those searching the likes of Google will still find it regardless of the forum it's in.
I still have my doubts that this is appropriate as a forum to choose for such a review/feedback because it can encourage flaming type posts. I'm sure you know what I mean - would you go to a Rolls Royce owners site to express your views about why they are not good cars? Maybe you would, but I think it would be better to choose a site that reviews different brands, rather than telling folk who already own the product that you think what they have is no good. I doubt folk trying to choose a product would consider a dedicated site to be an unbiased place to gather reliable reviews.
Mike
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Click to collapse
Mike,
I happen to be one of those Rolls Royce owners (I wish!) that's why I think I should have a say on this site. My views are counter current that's all. I don't feel undermined here despite being a totally "visible minority". If people were to get inflamed about it then there is always the almighty moderator that should straighten things out.
I still think my post does not belong to the off topic section because I think the view of somebody like myself can be beneficial to the majority here. I know that this could be difficult to acknowledge for somebody.
On the wake of the recent purchase and proud of my shiny new device, in the first 6 months of ownership of the Ty TN II I was like most other people here, reading, downloading, twicking. After a while I realized that what I was doing was going against the very reason I bought the device in the first place which was make my life easier and make me save time.
At that point and tired of the constant work that the machine demanded I gave up on it. I bought a new laptop and used the PDA like a phone and navigator only.
If I had found posts like mine before I would have made my natural progression earlier and I would have saved myself a lot of time and headaches.
I am sure there are other people in that position and they should be able to benefit from opinions like mine without having to Google them. To the hard core PDArers it should make no difference. I understand there is a pleasure in molding a machine to you own specification. I respect that; years ago I would have kept on doing it.
I hope you understand my plea and thanks for your work. I and many others did benefit from this great site.
Unfortunately I don't think that I can ethically contribute to the HTC or MS cause in a positive way. The fact that they created the need for a site like this is totally unacceptable.
I believe that it is wrong to offer volunteer work to greedy corporations that totally don't give a damn about their customer base. HTC and MS are clear examples.
I wish the talented work of people like XDA-developers will go towards developing software and service for no profit organizations and not to patch up the shortcomings and disservice of these corporations.
Bill Gates has become a philanthropist to wash his sins. I hope his example will be followed by all the other big fish in the corporate world.
Cheers
olliric said:
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
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Click to collapse
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
jaugusto said:
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
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Click to collapse
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
olliric said:
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
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Click to collapse
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
jaugusto said:
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes the BBs do USB File transfer when plugged into a PC with nothing extra installed. You get prompted on the device to enable Mass Storage Mode.
jaugusto said:
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think corporations do plan to make every gadget quickly outdated. Hardware and software companies help each other in that regard. Software is designed to require more and more computing power even though is often not necessary. We could be a lot farther ahead after 20 years of consumer computers. MS is probably the main cause of this troubled development and we are still stuck with it. Window mobile may be better than others but is still very far from being good. That was also the idea of a MS project manager friend of mine who eventually left Seattle and MS. I remember venting my frustration with him and he had no excuse to offer.
I did do ROM upgrades early on but then I had to remove them after developing other problems. If one day I run into somebody that will do it for me I may give them another try. I just had it with this PDA I don't to waste anymore time.
I have a lot of other things in my life and I just don't want to spend time on something that should save me time. It just does not make any sense to me.
When this PDA will crap out I'll be very careful of what I may buy. I think I have learned the lesson. The only thing that I have appreciated is the navigator which is neither HTC or MS. I travel a lot so I keep the bastard only for that. I have to bear the bulk and weight of it for navigation and the occasional email.
I don't know if there are PDAs that can be used like a USB pen. I really hope so. It is such a simple thing, if there aren't any then it's really bad out there.
Thanks for your help
Cheers
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
mbarvian said:
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to hear that I am not the only unhappy here. Actually I believe there are a lot more but they don't want to admit it.
So you guys de-lurk yourself and get it off your chest. You'll feel better. After all we just bought the PDA, we did not do anything terrible. There wasn't much choice anyway. If I made it or the OS then I would feel really bad about myself.
Cheers