Database Develop

What's the page pool for?

Ok, i know maybe is a noob question, but i don't understand whatthe pagepool is very well...
I know it has something to do with the system performance but i don't understand how it does work.
What would happend if i set the pagepool in 5mb (i think the smallest)?
If that's bad for the Pda, is better as much as possible?
I'd like to know because it seems to loose that memory asigned as pagepool.
Rom 30MB + S.O. (The hyma got 64mb)
RAM 128 MB
Ramdisk 40MB
program 61MB
Pagepool 24MB
If aplying 5 MB would leave more memory for running porgrams (up to 80MB) and the performance wouldn't be affected, Would be that the best choice?
Sorry for my english. Regards!

andur said:
Rom 30MB + S.O. (The hyma got 64mb)
RAM 128 MB
Ramdisk 40MB
program 61MB
Pagepool 24MB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Hima does have 64 MB ROM, part of it for Radio (AFAIK GSM, GPRS, Bluetooth), part of it for the bootloader, about 32 MB for the operating system, part meant to be used for EXTrom I believe (I'm a relative noob myself).
AFAIK pagepool lives in RAM and works like cache, low pagepool makes your device noticeably slower.
RAMdisk is a place to store any kind of files just like storage card, just not removable. It's a bit more volatile, shorting the battery contacts will remove its contents.
Program memory is where active, running programs and data reside just for the time being. It's blank right after any hard or soft reset.
I don't know what you mean by S.O. but the most important area for most of us is the area our device calls (a bit confusing) storage. It's where most cab's install programs plus their data and settings by default. It is normally limited to 14MB, by pulling unused EXTrom area to it, you can expand it to 30.5MB.
Still not much but the best we can do. If you don't know how to do this, there's a sticky.
Did I cover it all? No mistakes? (it's late and under these conditions I recently did make a mistake on the same subject...)

ram disk are soft-reset resistent

Official WM6.1 from HTC for Kaiser and amount of RAM issue...

Hello,
As you know Kaiser has 128MB of RAM. When you open Memory in settings then you can see that there is only 85.32MB of Program memory. So where is 42,68MB of RAM? Is all gone for pagepool in this ROM?
Best regards.

Just like yr desktop, everything runs on the machine need memory (RAM). OS (WM6.1), driver, start-up program, phone dialer, today ... etc.

jackleung said:
Just like yr desktop, everything runs on the machine need memory (RAM). OS (WM6.1), driver, start-up program, phone dialer, today ... etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are talking about "in use" memory. I am talking about total memory what you can see in memory in settings...
After soft reset i have:
Total: 85.32 MB
In Use: 38:93 MB
Free: 46.39 MB
Anybody can explain me why total memory is only 85.32?

art12345 said:
You are talking about "in use" memory. I am talking about total memory what you can see in memory in settings...
After soft reset i have:
Total: 85.32 MB
In Use: 38:93 MB
Free: 46.39 MB
Anybody can explain me why total memory is only 85.32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know exactly what you are talking about. In older ROMs 6.0 and I believe some of the older 6.1, that amount was closer to the 100MB mark.
Part of that (about 12MB) is used for page pool. However almost that amount was used on the older ROMs as well, so wouldn't account for the almost 15MB disparity we see.
I have asked this question myself a couple times in the ROM development forum...no one has provided an answer. Some suggest that they are using that RAM as additional 'cache' ram of one type or another to improve performance. That seems like it could be a logical reason since whenever you increase other cache's in the registry it takes memory out of that same chunk. The other answer could be that there are newer or more low level drivers that for one reason or another are taking up that RAM.
Fact is no one knows. My bet is on cache of some point, although i can't really say that I see an improvement that would warrant that 15MB of use. There's not much you can do about it at this point other than live with the diminished memory or flash an older ROM.

Before i had HTC Himalaya (128MB of RAM) with WM5 and there when you set up 16MB pagepool then all rest of RAM (112MB) was available in memory applet. I never tried Himalaya with WM6 ROM so i can't tell how much memory was available then. However, thanks for your reply. Regards.

Diamond: Far from 192 MB DDR RAM?

Hello,
I bought my Diamond yesterday from PDA plaza in Montreal. I am very puzzling with the memory I have on my unit. By clicking on Setting and Memory, this is what I have:
Storage: Total: 83.06 MB In use: 26.41 MB Free: 56.66 MB
Program: Total: 113.08 MB In use: 61.20 MB Free: 51.88MB
Very far from the specifications, which are ROM: 256 MB
RAM: 192 MB DDR RAM.
So is my unit defective? or this is normal.
Thanks in advance, because if I need to replace it, it need to be done as soon as possible...
Philippe

This would appear to be either a Grey Import or Pre-production specification? You should double check:
Go to - Start> Settings> System Tab> Device Information> Hardware Tab>
There you will find all the information about the physical memory?
If your correct then you may want to return it to the supplier or ask for a price reduction if your happy to keep it?
Hope this helps?

Thank you,
Yes, it is written Ram size 192 MB and Flash 256 MB. But why is that so different when I check on setting and memory?
Philippe

A chunk of memory is taken up by the Rom (System Software) and other system resources as they run. As you see new "cooked" roms become available you will see an improved level of memory usage - its nothing to worry about as long as performance is as expected?
I am incredibly envious that you already have the device though - looks like we here in the UK are going to have to wait a while longer unless we want an imported model?
Again - Hope this helps!

Because of all application running on your PDA...I heard that, with the 3D touchflo, there is "only" 90 Mo of Ram available !!

I'm using the Diamond to post right now. Touchflo 3d is a memory hog. only about 30% is free with no other applications running. the browser uses another 10%.

Thanks for all your comments. So to compare with my unit, please could you tell me how much memory you have for Storate and Program. So I will know how my unit compare to others...
Cheers,
Philippe

**** ME! How can it only have 50 MB of RAM free? Ive always got at least 60 free and I have 60 less to start with. Maybe TF3D is a massive hog?
But looking at the things you said, something like 113 available, 50 in use and 60 free, thats a good thing, you must have 192 built in, usually with 128 build in, you'll get figures of 80 available, not 113.
The one thing I dont understand is why the program memory never says that available is the amount of RAM you actually have. Because on startup I've usually got about 20 in use, and thats by the OS. So, when you take available program from the RAM you're meant to have, and get a number, lets say 80MB in this case, whats that used for?

rorydaredkign said:
**** ME! How can it only have 50 MB of RAM free? Ive always got at least 60 free and I have 60 less to start with. Maybe TF3D is a massive hog?
But looking at the things you said, something like 113 available, 50 in use and 60 free, thats a good thing, you must have 192 built in, usually with 128 build in, you'll get figures of 80 available, not 113.
The one thing I dont understand is why the program memory never says that available is the amount of RAM you actually have. Because on startup I've usually got about 20 in use, and thats by the OS. So, when you take available program from the RAM you're meant to have, and get a number, lets say 80MB in this case, whats that used for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With 128Mb RAM in machine Touch Dual shows 101Mb total, but Asus P750 120Mb. so adding another 64Mb we only gaining 12Mb total? Is that what you are trying to say???

83+113=196 is more than 192MB. Isn't the 256MB only for ROM (so WM6.1 OS+pre-installed programs?)

83 + 113 should not equal anything
Storage is the free space after a rom has been installed and is basically the free part of the ROM. With a lite made rom, it should be as large as possible, and the used storage on first boot should be near zero.
The 113 part is the RAM.
What I'm trying to say is where is the other 79MB of program memory (RAM)?
Because its not like on soft reset, you have say 113MB program free, no you have that available and about 60MB free. the approx 50 that is used up in this case is by startup items, and the stuff windows needs to rum. So where is this 79MB?

rorydaredkign said:
The one thing I dont understand is why the program memory never says that available is the amount of RAM you actually have. Because on startup I've usually got about 20 in use, and thats by the OS. So, when you take available program from the RAM you're meant to have, and get a number, lets say 80MB in this case, whats that used for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure it has some use. Hard drives are never quite as big as they say because of things like pagefiles, file allocation tables, etc.
Maybe that hidden 80MB is being used by system processes that are kept hidden. That's the only explanation I can think of, because computers don't seem to have a similar problem.

Dark Fire said:
I'm sure it has some use. Hard drives are never quite as big as they say because of things like pagefiles, file allocation tables, etc.
Maybe that hidden 80MB is being used by system processes that are kept hidden. That's the only explanation I can think of, because computers don't seem to have a similar problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to agree with you on that! No way they released all these phones with bad chips in them!

How much memory left do you have?

Hello everybody,
I would like to know how much memory left you have. The only programs I installed are spb GPRSMonitor, Schap"s Advanced Configuration Tool and DinarSoft MemMaid. I know I have 196MB for Ram size, but when I click on setting memory, I have only 40.25 MB free...
Not much more than with my previous Eten X500+, which had only 64 MB.
Thanks in advance,
Philippe

Same problem here, I think the current ROM has a problem...
Diamond :
Total - Storage : 83mb + Programs : 113 = 196Mb
Touch Dual :
Total - Storage : 122mb + Programs : 101 = 223Mb
Isn't the Diamond supposed to have more memory than the Touch Dual, and what's with the storage memory being 40Mb less !

I thought ROM is the one used for storage and RAM is used for processing of data by the OS?

mfbatzap said:
I thought ROM is the one used for storage and RAM is used for processing of data by the OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is... but some people still don't seem to get it...

haha okok...
anyway, what's your "idle" (no programs running other than your Touchflow and no other connections switched on) percentage of memory usage?
the lowest I can go is 61% which I feel is considerably high. I've already applied all the tweaks. Probably explains the slight lag.

How are you seeing 61% ? If you check off Touchfo3D in the today settings I hope it doesn't still start it...

the lowest i can go is 56%. and this when nothing is running except the touchflo3d,and phone is on in 3g mode with connection,also every page of tf3d is loaded(weather,progs,contact etc.)
still it says that there is 63.63mb in use of ram and now i have 49.46mb of free ram. thats the same i had on my kaiser!! very strange.
They say the phone has 192mb ram? i only see 113.08mb as total ram??
cant wait till touch pro comes out

Touch Flo 3D has memory leak issues. The longer u use, the less ram u'll have.

ok but still I get the RAM/ROM thing, but anyone knows where the rest of the RAM is? (192-112MB) I guess the 256MB rom is also used for other stuff as external rom etc.

xzces said:
ok but still I get the RAM/ROM thing, but anyone knows where the rest of the RAM is? (192-112MB) I guess the 256MB rom is also used for other stuff as external rom etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think the memory used by the OS is not shown..
only memory used by the programs that you run are shown
hope that helps..

Why is there so few RAM available??

Hey guys,
I just switched from a Polaris to my Kaiser a few days ago, because of the keyboard.
I love my Kaiser, but there is one thing I'm wondering about.
Why is there so few RAM in the Kaiser?
On my Polaris I had 60+ MB free (with an 8MB Touchcube loaded), up to 68.
On the Kaiser I have max. 43-45 free with nothing (I know of) running in the background....
How is that?
Stefan
edit: It's the same situation on different ROMs I tested and it was the same situation on different Polaris ROMs, too. They were all fully loaded, no light ROMs etc.

I think most ROM chefs have gone to either "larger" page pools, or dynamic page pools. And depending on the page pool size, you will see less available RAM.

Would you like to "SEE" a lot of free ram but run yr machine slow because of no caching/paging? Or you want to "FEEL" a lot smoother user experience because we spend some ram for cache/pagepool?
With 128mb Qvga machine like Kaiser, I don't even dare to look at the memory meter since I NEVER run into not enough ram issue even I abuse it w/ lots of concurrent apps (Iguidance 4 + TomTom 7 + A2DP w/ Coreplayer + lots of todays plugins).
I rather concern about too many unnecessary background service/process since WM has a physical limit of 32 processes

45MB free is nothing to worry about, I've never really managed to use more than 20MB with more than 10 apps running.
And devices like the Hermes were doing fine with less than 20MB free after a clean boot.

very nice way expressing/explaining
so thats call for button X application (plug in)
jackleung said:
Would you like to "SEE" a lot of free ram but run yr machine slow because of no caching/paging? Or you want to "FEEL" a lot smoother user experience because we spend some ram for cache/pagepool?
With 128mb Qvga machine like Kaiser, I don't even dare to look at the memory meter since I NEVER run into not enough ram issue even I abuse it w/ lots of concurrent apps (Iguidance 4 + TomTom 7 + A2DP w/ Coreplayer + lots of todays plugins).
I rather concern about too many unnecessary background service/process since WM has a physical limit of 32 processes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

The ROMs I used on the Polaris had a 18MB PP...
Laurentius' V10 also has 18MB...
And I also can't seem to fill the RAM, but I'm a little confused...

I also go pretty high on my page pools (24 mb). However, you can request a ROM of your liking with the page pool you want (look at my sig) .

kareem9nba said:
I also go pretty high on my page pools (24 mb). However, you can request a ROM of your liking with the page pool you want (look at my sig) .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx, but as I said, I'm alright with my RAM.
I'm only curious why a ROM which is (supposed to be) very similar to a Polaris one according to the settings (where the Polaris ROM actually had the TouchCube with 8MB loaded) has 15-20MB less RAM available... what the hell is running in the background on the Kaiser that takes that much memory?
Oh, and btw, all the screenshots for the Kaiser I saw (even from light ROMs), don't have much more than 50MB free, so how can a light Polaris ROM have 70MB free??!!
Stefan
P.S: I don't mean to annoy anyone, but I just can't help it...
I wanna know what takes my RAM away...

Sayuuk said:
Oh, and btw, all the screenshots for the Kaiser I saw (even from light ROMs), don't have much more than 50MB free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There, just for you. 47.3MB with no programs running but no reboot for more than one week, and 63.1MB after reboot. The screenshot program is taking 1MB in both cases, and I have a couple of small programs starting automatically on boot.
Any chance you'd be using WM6 on one and WM6.1 on the other?

Sayuuk said:
what the hell is running in the background on the Kaiser that takes that much memory?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you use Memmaid and take a look?

jackleung said:
Why don't you use Memmaid and take a look?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't find anything, that's why I'm asking ;-)
@kilrah: interesting, I never saw that much free RAM on a Kaiser.
However, on my Polaris I had a ROM (as previously mentioned) that was fully loaded, all the stuff I have on my Kaiser + the Cube and I still had about 20MB more free RAM than I have on my Kaiser without a Cube...
The only Hardware-based difference on the Kaiser is the keyboard... but that can't have anything to di with it, can it?
Stefan

I was also always curious as to why, if they can make 32gb micro sd cards, can't they simply put that much memory into the Kaiser to begin with?

Two Things
A) They don't have 32Gb MicroSD cards yet.
B) Lets say they Did. Leaving the Card Slot Blank costs nothing. Filling it with a Card costs money. Larger Profit Margin for HTC. They win.

And some more:
D) Most people don't give a damn about having 16/32GB in their phone, and would certainly be pissed off if they had to pay more for something they didn't need. Those will just buy a 1GB card and be fine with it.
E) That would open the door to iphone-like ripoff, with $100-200 difference between the 8GB and 16GB models... when we know that a 8GB memory card costs around $20 nowadays, so much more like $5 to add it inside the phone for the manufacturer. But as we all know, internal memory always costs more than cards....
F) Bit unrelated, but in my country electronic devices are subject to a copyright-style tax based on the amount of internal memory. But memory cards aren't taxed. Choose the best option

And backup sizes increase too!
After watching my free device memory decline and backup sizes go up every day, I found that PIE (Pocket Internet Explorer) and Opera were taking a more than decent amount of memory for their caches.
Clearing PIE and Opera's cache freed over 30M of device memory for me!
While Opera gives a setting for cache size, PIE has only a registry setting:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\5.0\Cache\Content\CacheLimit
It's set to 42680 in my Tilt. While I can change the registry value, the change won't survive a soft reset.
My solution is to regularly clear the browser caches and check the device for temp files. It's made a huge difference for me (from 11M free to 61M free)

gavink said:
After watching my free device memory decline and backup sizes go up every day, I found that PIE (Pocket Internet Explorer) and Opera were taking a more than decent amount of memory for their caches.
Clearing PIE and Opera's cache freed over 30M of device memory for me!
While Opera gives a setting for cache size, PIE has only a registry setting:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\5.0\Cache\Content\CacheLimit
It's set to 42680 in my Tilt. While I can change the registry value, the change won't survive a soft reset.
My solution is to regularly clear the browser caches and check the device for temp files. It's made a huge difference for me (from 11M free to 61M free)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, we are talking about RAM (program memory) and you are talking about ROM (storage memory).
I always use memmaid to clean up before backup to make sure no junks are being backup. In fact, most backup software allow you to choose what directory to or not to backup.

jackleung said:
Man, we are talking about RAM (program memory) and you are talking about ROM (storage memory).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see that in the previous posts. I do understand the difference between program and storage memory. RAM is where everything but the base system is stored... right? ROM (read only memory) isn't used for a dynamic cache... right?

gavink said:
I don't see that in the previous posts. I do understand the difference between program and storage memory. RAM is where everything but the base system is stored... right? ROM (read only memory) isn't used for a dynamic cache... right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was back on '03... the terms stayed the same but since WM5 the technology changed
It's like on your PC.
RAM is the storage the programs actually run in, ROM is the ... rest
If you look at the Memory Page in the settings. ROM ("Storage") is what you're talking about and RAM ("Program") is what the rest of us is talking about...
Stefan

Sayuuk said:
That was back on '03... the terms stayed the same but since WM5 the technology changed
It's like on your PC.
RAM is the storage the programs actually run in, ROM is the ... rest
If you look at the Memory Page in the settings. ROM ("Storage") is what you're talking about and RAM ("Program") is what the rest of us is talking about...
Stefan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sooo... you're saying that my PIE and Opera caches are both in my Tilt's ROM? Wow... somehow I fell waaaay behind the times!

gavink said:
Sooo... you're saying that my PIE and Opera caches are both in my Tilt's ROM? Wow... somehow I fell waaaay behind the times!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not actually ROM anymore, that's what I meant and I guess that's why you're confused.
I think you understand what RAM is. Now what we mean when we say ROM is just the rest of the internal storage that is NOT the RAM.
If you read the specs of HTC phones you always see 128MB RAM and 256MB ROM. ROM in this case is just a name that's in use cuz it's always been used, though it's not ReadOnlyMemory nowadays.
Stefan